I challenge you Oda. Do you have the balls to kill Whitebeard?
Chapter 566 "Fierce Attack" Discussion
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Thant his whole arc is for nothing… IF WB dies OK, he said himself he can die for a young life. But not Ace
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Thant his whole arc is for nothing… IF WB dies OK, he said himself he can die for a young life. But not Ace
I don't think that saving ace is an achievement giving the fact that he doesn't have the stuff to become the next PK.
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I don't think that saving ace is an achievement giving the fact that he doesn't have the stuff to become the next PK.
what kind of stuff are you specifically talking about? he has the genes of the PK, the logia df of fire, a division commander of the most badass person in the world at present.. he only needs to have an intention of becoming the PK
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Well if AB dies maybe he will start to become pirate king to realize WBs wish
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Thant his whole arc is for nothing… IF WB dies OK, he said himself he can die for a young life. But not Ace
It hasn't anything to do with this arc but rather with Ace being Roger's son. Ace can hate his dad as much as he likes but I have little doubts that (since he himself has time to grow) before the story ends Ace will get that far that people inside the OP world will say "he's just as strong as his father was".
The thing is that once Luffy achieves the title of Pirate King it would somehow feel incomplete if he couldn't compare to the previous PK strenghtwise. And I'm quite sure that this is where Ace comes into play.
The moment Sengoku confirmed that Ace was Rogers son Ace automatically became one of the lost opponents to me.
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It hasn't anything to do with this arc but rather with Ace being Roger's son. Ace can hate his dad as much as he likes but I have little doubts that (since he himself has time to grow) before the story ends Ace will get that far that people inside the OP world will say "he's just as strong as his father was".
The thing is that once Luffy achieves the title of Pirate King it would somehow feel incomplete if he couldn't compare to the previous PK strenghtwise. And I'm quite sure that this is where Ace comes into play.
The moment Sengoku confirmed that Ace was Rogers son Ace automatically became one of the lost opponents to me.
Yeah a true word. I can totally see Ace and Luffy having a fight later on… We would have 3 D.'s with the intention to become pirate king. Wonder what will happen if BB comes across Ace once again later
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It hasn't anything to do with this arc but rather with Ace being Roger's son. Ace can hate his dad as much as he likes but I have little doubts that (since he himself has time to grow) before the story ends Ace will get that far that people inside the OP world will say "he's just as strong as his father was".
The thing is that once Luffy achieves the title of Pirate King it would somehow feel incomplete if he couldn't compare to the previous PK strenghtwise. And I'm quite sure that this is where Ace comes into play.
The moment Sengoku confirmed that Ace was Rogers son Ace automatically became one of the lost opponents to me.
And during the Arabasta arc when Luffy said that they used to fight a lot with Ace always winning (without a df ability too), I was left with the impression that we would get to see them fight seriously later in the series. (especially with Luffy claiming he could beat Ace now)
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he only needs to have an intention of becoming the PK
Which is what i'm talking about. Achieving this dream does not only require strength or fame but also the right mindset which ace lacks.
WB dying and Ace continuing WBs work won't change that. -
Thant his whole arc is for nothing… IF WB dies OK, he said himself he can die for a young life. But not Ace
This. If Ace dies, the whole war, all of Impel Down and last part of Amazon Lily will have been for nothing. I mean, Luffy's been all "I gotta rescue Ace" "Aceee!" "I'll rescue you even if it kills me, Ace!" for how long now? Talk about a single-minded goal. He even got 10 years taken off his life in the process. There's no way Luffy's gonna fail to meet his only goal during this arc(s).
I've been thinking, we heard the whole 'WB wants to make Ace PK' thing from Sengoku, then from Squado, but we've never actually heard it from WB himself. How would Sengoku know that in the first place? Was Oda just using Sengoku as a mouthpiece to tell us WB's intentions? I'm just wondering if Whitebeard actually does want to make Ace PK.
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If Sengoku falls, who is going to take over?
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This post is deleted!
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Yeah a true word. I can totally see Ace and Luffy having a fight later on… We would have 3 D.'s with the intention to become pirate king. Wonder what will happen if BB comes across Ace once again later
Well I'm hoping for several fights before the final decision. Mainly because I find the thought of a three way fight between Luffy, Teach and Ace faszinating. But I wouldn't like to see the deciding fight to be a three way dance because I appreciate a fair 1 on 1 in such situations to eliminate the "if he'd have fought all by himself he wouldn't have won" discussions.
Also having the really big guns taking it out a couple of times would somehow include the flair of Roger's time since it was stated that he'd fought plenty of times with Newgate, Garp or Shiki. True, Luffy fought several times with Crocodile and Rucchi. But that was different rounds of the same fight (one being a fight for Vivi and the other being a fight for Robin). I'd like to see Luffy being confronted with the big guns throughout different fights. The only moment that comes close to this are his encounters with Smoker. But these encounters are lacking the component of meeting on equal grounds since Smoker so far is definitely superior to Luffy.
And during the Arabasta arc when Luffy said that they used to fight a lot with Ace always winning (without a df ability too), I was left with the impression that we would get to see them fight seriously later in the series. (especially with Luffy claiming he could beat Ace now)
Yep, that was also one of those moments. If Luffy would become PK without ever fighting Ace seriously, this would always strike as unfinished business.
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I think Akainu would be the one the Government would pick if Sengoku fell.
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It should be Grand Moustache.
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Aces only ambition after WBs death would be to seek revenge.
"Teach i will take you down. Where is my father now…"The parallels between luffy and Ace are quite interesting :
Okay. There is only one real
way to compare Luffy and Ace's resolve that shows how Luffy stands over Ace in this regard.Ace Regular
Luffy BoldAce gets totally and utterly deafeated.
Luffy gets totally and utterly defeated.
He breaks down.
He breaks down.
He breaks down some more for several weeks(let's say at least two due to the 100+ attempts), even though his whole crew is fine and alive because his ego is destroyed.
He picks himself up, even though there is a very large possibility that he's nakama are dead, and irrationally continues his journey convinced that he will reunite with them, without hesitation.
He goes homicidal, to the point where he attempts many sneak attacks.(Luffy would never sneak attack anyone to try to kill them ever, cowardice)
Luffy goes on to fight Amazons, get captured, fight an intense battle, charm the panties off of the world's most beautiful woman, and have a huge ass banquet and party. Evidently his pirating spirit is completely intact.
He continues to go homicidal even when killing whitebeard in his sleep really wouldn't help him at all, it's just resentment and adolescent anguish.
He finds that his brother is in danger and decides to go after him, thinking of it as a detour to finding his friends, which he must do in order to become PK.
Finally he finds a father figure who restores some of his self-worth by making him feel part of something larger than he is, so he shifts his ambition towards making WB the Pirate King.
He storms impel down, a feat never before achieved, and breaks several hundred prisoners out by making strong allies and fighting hard himself, finally reaching MF, where he meets WB and tells him without a shadow of a doubt that he is going to be PK. All this in the same space of time where Ace was wallowing in his own teen angst.
Ace is comparatively a wuss.
Luffy has the personality, resilience and resolve to become the PK.Please stop arguing. The comparison is clear. Luffy's irrationality in the face of despair, his fearlessness, his indomitable spirit and unyielding ambition make will make him stronger than Ace, without even a little uncertainty.
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Which is what i'm talking about. Achieving this dream does not only require strength or fame but also the right mindset which ace lacks.
WB dying and Ace continuing WBs work won't change that.You've read through over 500 chapters of One Piece and you still say that the death of an important person can't be the catalyst for some drastic change of a character? Wow.
Aces only ambition after WBs death would be to seek revenge.
"Teach i will take you down. Where is my father now…"This is your personal interpretation of things. How about he going through some character growth instead and comprehending that Newgate wanted to support Ace in his dream of having more freedom then anyone else ever had?
I'm not saying that what I suggest is more valid then your idea. I'm just saying that revenge definitely is not the only option with the rough outline we've had of Ace's character so far.
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It's possible that Ace will leave the Whitebeard pirates and reform the spade pirates beause he doesn't believe he deserves to be a Whitebeard pirate anymore and Marco will will take over the Whitebeard pirates.
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You've read through over 500 chapters of One Piece and you still say that the death of an important person can't be the catalyst for some drastic change of a character? Wow.
It will make Ace more depressed because the only thing he has is WB for which he abandonned whatever he had in mind when he decided to sail the grand line? Where did Ace sow the mental strength to handle something that big?
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It will make Ace more depressed because the only thing he has is WB for which he abandonned whatever he had in mind when he decided to sail the grand line?
True, it will make Ace more depressed at first. Neither of the Strawhats was happy go lucky directly after their tragic loss occured. They had to deal with those situations (including their feelings). That's what makes it a growth. I don't see why Ace should be any different. I mean this is One Piece we're talking about.
However who said that Ace abandoned whatever he had in mind when he decided to sail the Grand Line. He wanted to have more freedom then anyone else and I seriously doubt that Newgate would make quit on that while speaking the words "rage the seas to your hearts content".
Where did Ace sow the mental strength to handle something that big?
You do realize that he most definitely has a personality of his own right? And that the only reason why we didn't see it exposed is most likely because he isn't the protagonist. I wouldn't claim that he lacks the ability to deal with it on the fact alone that this part of his personality wasn't displayed so far.
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You do realize that he most definitely has a personality of his own right? And that the only reason why we didn't see it exposed is most likely because he isn't the protagonist. I wouldn't claim that he lacks the ability to deal with it on the fact alone that this part of his personality wasn't displayed so far.
Did you read usoppspells post? Everything Oda showed about Aces way to deal with difficult situations can be reduced to "whining".
@Thousand:
It's possible that Ace will leave the Whitebeard pirates and reform the spade pirates beause he doesn't believe he deserves to be a Whitebeard pirate anymore and Marco will will take over the Whitebeard pirates.
Marco taking the lead of the WB pirates would definitely be a better option regarding his character (e.g. his answer to squaldos pain and despair). I also think that marco is stronger than ace (regarding his abilities to fight admirals cough logias cough) which lessen the chances of ace becoming a captain.
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Did you read usoppspells post? Everything Oda showed about Aces way to deal with difficult situations can be reduced to "whining".
Yes, I've read it. Doesn't change anything I said about death being the catalyst for a drastic change of the character.
Also I don't like the comparison for the fact that Ace has been around for a longer time then Luffy and has had more input on the whole wide world and living a pirate's life then Luffy. I find it more interesting to see a comparison between Luffy and Ace while Ace was still at the verge of finishing the first half of the Grand Line.
I'm not denying that Ace seems more like a wuss now then Luffy. But that could most likely be a result of being protected by Whitebeard. True, Whitebeard wouldn't have wanted for his "son" to become a wuss. But it's only natural that people get lesser sharp when they have someone to protect them then when they themselves are the main protector of others. Shanks himself even said that a lot of Ace's reputation now comes from being with Whitebeard. So I definitely agree that he comes across like a wuss in comparison to his borther now.
But the thing is that at the same time Shanks acknowledged that Ace is strong. Furthermore he said that now is not the time for Ace and Teach to meet thus acknowledging potential for Ace to grow. Also the fact remains that Newgate considers Luffy and Ace to be so similar. That all leads me to expect that Ace most definitely has the true will of D. sleeping inside him. But his stay with Whitebeard hasn't really done him a favor letting it grow. The death of Newgate however might put him back on the track again.
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Yes, I've read it. Doesn't change anything I said about death being the catalyst for a drastic change of the character.
Well let's see:
Also I don't like the comparison for the fact that Ace has been around for a longer time then Luffy and has had more input on the whole wide world and living a pirate's life then Luffy. I find it more interesting to see a comparison between Luffy and Ace while Ace was still at the verge of finishing the first half of the Grand Line.
No input of the pirate world would change luffys determination to fulfil his dream. Not even loosing to strong opponents.
I'm not denying that Ace seems more like a wuss now then Luffy. But that could most likely be a result of being protected by Whitebeard.
His lost against WB already showed he is a wuss. His crew was fine. He was alive. he could have moved on and swear that he will soon become stronger and beat WB. But he pathetically tried to kill the old man even with cowardice… This makes me think he doesn't or better he never had the right mindset to deal with "loosing against an opponent". Or he has heavy problems with roger being a father who was never there for him.
True, Whitebeard wouldn't have wanted for his "son" to become a wuss. But it's only natural that people get lesser sharp when they have someone to protect them then when they themselves are the main protector of others. Shanks himself even said that a lot of Ace's reputation now comes from being with Whitebeard. So I definitely agree that he comes across like a wuss in comparison to his borther now.
I have nothing to add i agree. WB is the reason he whined in Impel down.
But the thing is that at the same time Shanks acknowledged that Ace is strong. Furthermore he said that now is not the time for Ace and Teach to meet thus acknowledging potential for Ace to grow.
Too bad for ace. He will die before he unleashes his full potential? A lot of pirates die without having the chance to pove themselves. It's a tough world.
Also the fact remains that Newgate considers Luffy and Ace to be so similar. That all leads me to expect that Ace most definitely has the true will of D. sleeping inside him.
If ace survives this war, chopper needs to work hard to help him to get over his father problems. He would also have to deal with new world pirates comments like "so you're the greenhorn WB died for?" (or they will use a much crasser formulation)
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Which is what i'm talking about. Achieving this dream does not only require strength or fame but also the right mindset which ace lacks.
WB dying and Ace continuing WBs work won't change that.ah.. well.. assuming ace lives after this war.. oda can still develop his character
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Just wait till Luffy takes Ace handcuffes off and Ace goes supernova on the entire marine force :P
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Just wait till Luffy takes Ace handcuffes off and Ace goes supernova on the entire marine force :P
I'm assuming WB and some commanders will have to deal with garp and sengoku. The 3 admirals are still left to dealwith everyone who attempts to free ace.
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@Six:
I've been thinking, we heard the whole 'WB wants to make Ace PK' thing from Sengoku, then from Squado, but we've never actually heard it from WB himself. How would Sengoku know that in the first place? Was Oda just using Sengoku as a mouthpiece to tell us WB's intentions? I'm just wondering if Whitebeard actually does want to make Ace PK.
That's exactly what I was thinking. It is entirely possible that Sengoku only said that to fan the flames of resentment in Squadro's heart. How would he know that Whitebeard wanted to make Ace the pirate king?
He wouldn't.
And Oda is really a fantastic storyteller; even after more than ten years of refusing to kill people in his story (even going to ridiculous and absurd lengths to do so), people actually still believe Ace is going to die. It's amazing.
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Oh dear…Where to start this...Making me use psychology for a One Piece charactergrumble-grumble
First of all lets start on the father hate:
Ace learned from Garp who his father was and what he did. Garp probably also told him that Roger had turned himself in and was not captured by him.
In a child's eyes that equals with a coward father, who gave up his life and had not stayed with his wife to give her the proper protection she needed. Thus she dies and Ace considers Roger to be at fault.
Don't forget that the Marines had probably got NO idea about Roger's sickness and that means Garp didn't know either.
I suspect that Luffy might tell Ace about his father being sick and already dieing and that will lead to Ace regretting for thinking all that stuff about Roger and start admiring the man and decide to follow his steps. (kinda corny but really, can't you see it happening?)
/children's psychology shit. Does it at least make more sense as to why Ace hates Roger? Hope it does.On to the ID emo-ness:
Ace had accepted the fact that he was going to be executed and had no problem with it. Of course he was probably rather disappointed with himself for failing in taking revenge about his comrade's death (which he held himself responsible for since BB was in his division), but didn't really whine about his approaching death.
After Garp told him about the upcoming war though, that changed. Because of his said failure, all of his nakama and the man who took him in as his son, were going to a war, risking their lives for him. It's only natural that Ace would again feel responsible and not take well to it. Especially since they had pleaded with him not to go after BB in the first place. And that can only mean one thing: All ofthis mess is his fault and his fault alone. Thus he asks Garp to kill him showing once again he has no fear of death and is willing to take responsibility. (Of course if he really wanted to die, he should've bit his tongue. Silly Ace not thinking of alternative ways :ninja:)To the war emo-ness:
Ace accepts his fate and hopes that his fellow crew-members will not show up. But they did and he tries to make them go away. Oh look! His little brother also just jumped in with a bunch of strangers who also plan to risk their lives for him. He yells at them, gets put in his place by Luffy and realizes that no matter what he tells them, they won't go away. So he shuts the 'ell up at last and decides that no matter what happens he'll be ok with it. But he can't help but observe as one by one of his friends and family and a bunch of strangers, get hurt thus more feelings of guilt and regret being born in his heart. (Oh I am so poetic~:ninja:)After the war is over, the end of emo-ness will also come! Enter character growth and development/New Ace. O:
If we take all of the above and some more into consideration, we can safely assume that Ace will grow to be a much better man. Especially if a. Luffy reveals to Ace about Roger being sick (he is a Garp's grandson. He has proved before he can't keep his mouth shut about stuff like this) and b. Whitey dies in the war/is mortally wounded, has a small talk with Ace then kicks the bucket or somethin' along those lines.
a Will lead Ace to forgiving his father for what he thought he had done (abandon his wife and child for eternal fame) and he'll at last let go of that silly grudge against a dead man and b will lead Ace into thinking that maybe he should aim for OP. Either to carry out Whitey's will, or to feel that only if he tried his best he would be able to face both WB and Roger with his head held up high when he met them in the other side~ (Pfft I am killing myself today.)My 3DS Friend Code: 1091 - 8457 - 8212
~Goronyanya~
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[hide]Oh dear…Where to start this...Making me use psychology for a One Piece charactergrumble-grumble
First of all lets start on the father hate:
Ace learned from Garp who his father was and what he did. Garp probably also told him that Roger had turned himself in and was not captured by him.
In a child's eyes that equals with a coward father, who gave up his life and had not stayed with his wife to give her the proper protection she needed. Thus she dies and Ace considers Roger to be at fault.
Don't forget that the Marines had probably got NO idea about Roger's sickness and that means Garp didn't know either.
I suspect that Luffy might tell Ace about his father being sick and already dieing and that will lead to Ace regretting for thinking all that stuff about Roger and start admiring the man and decide to follow his steps. (kinda corny but really, can't you see it happening?)
/children's psychology shit. Does it at least make more sense as to why Ace hates Roger? Hope it does.On to the ID emo-ness:
Ace had accepted the fact that he was going to be executed and had no problem with it. Of course he was probably rather disappointed with himself for failing in taking revenge about his comrade's death (which he held himself responsible for since BB was in his division), but didn't really whine about his approaching death.
After Garp told him about the upcoming war though, that changed. Because of his said failure, all of his nakama and the man who took him in as his son, were going to a war, risking their lives for him. It's only natural that Ace would again feel responsible and not take well to it. Especially since they had pleaded with him not to go after BB in the first place. And that can only mean one thing: All ofthis mess is his fault and his fault alone. Thus he asks Garp to kill him showing once again he has no fear of death and is willing to take responsibility. (Of course if he really wanted to die, he should've bit his tongue. Silly Ace not thinking of alternative ways :ninja:)To the war emo-ness:
Ace accepts his fate and hopes that his fellow crew-members will not show up. But they did and he tries to make them go away. Oh look! His little brother also just jumped in with a bunch of strangers who also plan to risk their lives for him. He yells at them, gets put in his place by Luffy and realizes that no matter what he tells them, they won't go away. So he shuts the 'ell up at last and decides that no matter what happens he'll be ok with it. But he can't help but observe as one by one of his friends and family and a bunch of strangers, get hurt thus more feelings of guilt and regret being born in his heart. (Oh I am so poetic~:ninja:) [/hide]Ok…
After the war is over, the end of emo-ness will also come!
Enter character growth and development/New Ace. O:
If we take all of the above and some more into consideration, we can safely assume that Ace will grow to be a much better man.Why would it poof come? I mean he was being emo the whole time and now it will stop just because everything is over and he would magically decide that if something like that happens in future he wouldn't whine anymore?
Especially if a. Luffy reveals to Ace about Roger being sick (he is a Garp's grandson. He has proved before he can't keep his mouth shut about stuff like this)
The main argument of Ace is: "Roger was never there for him". Revealing that roger was sick wouldn't change that fact.
and b. Whitey dies in the war/is mortally wounded, has a small talk with Ace then kicks the bucket or somethin' along those lines.
a Will lead Ace to forgiving his father for what he thought he had done (abandon his wife and child for eternal fame) and he'll at last let go of that silly grudge against a dead man and b will lead Ace into thinking that maybe he should aim for OP.Searching for OP because he now knows roger sought fame thus was a great man for abandoning his wife and kid? Or because WB says "become the next PK my son?" (even if Ace shouted at sengoku that he wanted to make WB the next PK?). How can that compares to heavyweights like luffy or Blackbeard who had their own dreams?
Either to carry out Whitey's will, or to feel that only if he tried his best he would be able to face both WB and Roger with his head held up high when he met them in the other side~ (Pfft I am killing myself today.)
see above :)
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Someone had a point. What would we do if Pwngoat gets named? It might happen any time soon!
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No input of the pirate world would change luffys determination to fulfil his dream. Not even loosing to strong opponents.
Again, it's an unfair comparison. Ace seems to be lacking something Luffy has in Shanks (an idol respectively a father figure). True, there was Dadan we don't know much about him yet to make a claim that he could be such a person since Luffy didn't make mention of Dadan as such a figure either. So while being the older brother Ace was lacking something Luffy had, a person to look up to and admire. Don't underestimate this concept.
His lost against WB already showed he is a wuss. His crew was fine. He was alive. he could have moved on and swear that he will soon become stronger and beat WB. But he pathetically tried to kill the old man even with cowardice… This makes me think he doesn't or better he never had the right mindset to deal with "loosing against an opponent". Or he has heavy problems with roger being a father who was never there for him.
Yep, as I said in my previous paragraph that seems to be the problem. He might the older of the two but the lack of a father figure indicates to be the main reason for why he strikes as incomplete in comparison other D's for now.
Too bad for ace. He will die before he unleashes his full potential? A lot of pirates die without having the chance to pove themselves. It's a tough world.
The important factor here is though that this is a fictional story. So hints about unleashing the true potential always happen. Otherwise it's considered poor storytelling which doesn't really mix well with the name Oda Eiichiro.
If ace survives this war, chopper needs to work hard to help him to get over his father problems. He would also have to deal with new world pirates comments like "so you're the greenhorn WB died for?" (or they will use a much crasser formulation)
I have no idea what kind of growth problems Ace will go through but I have zero doubts that he will go through those.
Ok…
Why would it poof come? I mean he was being emo the whole time and now it will stop just because everything is over and he would magically decide that if something like that happens in future he wouldn't whine anymore?Is the concept of "death being catalyst for drastic change" that hard of a concept to comprehend? True it might sound a bit simple but One Piece has been depicted to be a fictional universe where this concept heavily applies to.
Searching for OP because he now knows roger sought fame thus was a great man for abandoning his wife and kid? Or because WB says "become the next PK my son?" (even if Ace shouted at sengoku that he wanted to make WB the next PK?). How can that compares to heavyweights like luffy or Blackbeard who had their own dreams?
As I tried to explain before, Ace doesn't seem to be there yet. But he has it sleeping inside of him. It's just that his entire father complexes didn't work to his advantage. A drastic change in his ways to unleash his full potential and follow his own ambition is needed. And Whitebeards death most likely would be exactly that.
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Ok…
Why would it poof come? I mean he was being emo the whole time and now it will stop just because everything is over and he would magically decide that if something like that happens in future he wouldn't whine anymore?
The main argument of Ace is: "Roger was never there for him". Revealing that roger was sick wouldn't change that fact.
Searching for OP because now roger sought fame thus was a great man for abandoning his wife and kid? Or because WB says "become the next PK my son?". How can that compares to heavyweights like luffy or Blackbeard who had their own dreams?
see above :)
Because after the war he would start realizing that being emo is not in anymore? jkjk. He won't 'magically' decide something like that. Are you saying that an entire war and people important to him dieing won't change him at all? I disagree. He's already reached the bottom and he can only go up. He is already 'growing up' especially from the chapter Luffy told him off. What's the way to protect his friends? Staying a whiner or sucking it up and start working his ass out to become stronger?
Do you really think that's all there is to Ace's hate about Roger? Re-read the first part I wrote and think it this way. You've got a little boy okay? Learning that his dad who was a rather powerful pirate called the PK, turned himself in the Marines just like that. What do you think the kid will think? "Oh my dad was never there for me" or "Oh my dad abandoned me and my mom who died protecting me because he wasn't here to do so, for no other reason than becoming more famous"?
Each person hunting OP does it for his/her own reason. Not all of them do it for the fame or the adventure or the Romance.
True, neither can be the full reason for him to go after OP but they could be enough to trigger the desire of becoming the PK imo. -
Ace_ReleaseVersion_3.0 and a much more stronger luffy meet in the new world:
Ace: "i will be the next PK!"
Luffy: "No i will!"
fight for 2 days
Ace remembers how hard luffy fought to save him and feels guilty.
Ace "This fight has no purpose at all".everyone falls asleep
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@Fire Fist:
A man doesn't roll up his sleeves to use a power borrowed from an enchanted consumable. A man rolls up his sleeves to whoop some ass with his FISTS.
Indeed, he looks like a kick ass boxer.
Oda can even borrow some moves from Hajime No Ippo.
Would be epic if Sengokue did the Dempsey Roll or something ;) -
Ace_ReleaseVersion_3.0 and a much more stronger luffy meet in the new world:
Ace: "i will be the next PK!"
Luffy: "No i will!"
fight for 2 days
Ace remembers how hard luffy fought to save him and feels guilty.
Ace "This fight has no purpose at all".everyone falls asleep
I would disagree that this fight wouldn't have a purpose at all. Let's not forget that Ace and Luffy are brothers and that they care for each other. It's definitely tougher to give your all in such a fight then when going up against a villain you don't like and whom you need to stop at all cost.
True, one might argue that with Usopp Luffy had already fought againts a person he cares for. But the difference is that in this fight a) he didn't give it his all and b) was having a dispute with Usopp. Fighting someone he agrees with and pushing himself to the limit here would definitely be a new concept for both Luffy and the readers. And I personally wouldn't consider this boring but rather the opposite.
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Ace_ReleaseVersion_3.0 and a much more stronger luffy meet in the new world:
Ace: "i will be the next PK!"
Luffy: "No i will!"
fight for 2 days
Ace remembers how hard luffy fought to save him and feels guilty.
Ace "This fight has no purpose at all".everyone falls asleep
Except, One Piece isn't written by Kubo Tite.
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I would disagree that this fight wouldn't have a purpose at all.
So? Where is the purpose? Both wanting the same things but all of them not really wanting to fight? Or they will fight with smiles on their faces just to please the fans?
Let's not forget that Ace and Luffy are brothers and that they care for each other. It's definitely tougher to give your all in such a fight then when going up against a villain you don't like and whom you need to stop at all cost.
Well if they need to stop each other at all cost they would go all out after the gong?
Fighting someone he agrees with and pushing himself to the limit here would definitely be a new concept for both Luffy and the readers. And I personally wouldn't consider this boring but rather the opposite.
good for you.
Except, One Piece isn't written by Kubo Tite.
which is why Ace will die :)
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Just wait till Luffy takes Ace handcuffes off and Ace goes supernova on the entire marine force :P
I agree, and people are forgetting Ace is on a warlord level. He willburn the whole battle field. I wonder if Ace has enough Haki to hit a admiral?
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So? Where is the purpose? Both wanting the same things but all of them not really wanting to fight? Or they will fight with smiles on their faces just to please the fans?
Well if they need to stop each other at all cost they would go all out after the gong?
good for you.
which is why Ace will die :)
Seriously are you trolling around or was I simply mistaking that you were actually intelligent?
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I would love to see Sengoku as simply a really really strong martial artist. Same goes for Garp. Anything that has potentials to bring up fist to fist action is all we need for final battle.
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So if WB dies..as all indications point to now…who becomes the "Strongest Man In The World?" ... Shanks...that would set up an epic encounter in the New World with Luffy...the other two Yonkou possibly but the lack of foreshadowing hints at this not being the case (Oda would tend to build something like this up)..or do you think there will be some sort of battle royale for the title? ... also I do believe that as someone pointed out..if Sengoku falls Akainu will take his place..not power level wise etc but simply because he seems to be ideologically where the WG and Gorosei seem to be as a whole thus they would want someone like him (cruel and efficient) to stamp out all threats in the time of crisis. Also we have all forgotten about Dragon (which is a good thing...all the speculation about him showing up at the WAR were...) but he might make a claim for "strongest man" title as well..especially given the army backing him up..the man destroys nations for petes sake....speculation gents?
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Seriously are you trolling around
or was I simply mistaking that you were actually intelligent?[hide]
Mister Jauch…. I had to.[/hide]We have 2 camps. Those who want to believe Oda is great enough to make Ace a better character after the war and WBs death even if everything so far hints the opposite.
I'm on the opposite. Ace is boring. Luffy already outclasses him when it comes to strong will. I will find it pretty dull if ace suddenly after this war and WBs death decides to move on making a 180° turns and basically becomes as strong minded as luffy.
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[hide]http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/sandpiper85/HeathJoker.jpg[/hide]
We have 2 camps. Those who want to believe Oda is great enough to make Ace a better character with the war and WBs death even if everything so far hints the opposite.
I'm on the opposite. Ace is boring. Luffy already outclasses him when it comes to ambition. I would find it pretty dull if ace suddenly after this war and WBs death decides to move on making a 180° turns and basically becomes as strong minded as luffy.
Except that Ace is about as ambitious as Luffy. Not as much but it's around the same level. It definitely wouldn't be a 180 degree turn.
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We have 2 camps. Those who want to believe Oda is great enough to make Ace a better character with the war and WBs death even if everything so far hints the opposite.
Whitebeards and Shanks' words are definitely not hints for the exact opposite. And neither are the narrative instruments that hint at Ace being an opponent for Luffy in the future. You should at least have the guts to admit that if you want to put some credibility behind your argumentation.
I'm on the opposite. Ace is boring. Luffy already outclasses him when it comes to ambition.
I never denied that. I just think it's not a smart move to deny the very valid expectation of character growth albeit One Piece being a story that's built around that very concept.
I would find it pretty dull if ace suddenly after this war and WBs death decides to move on making a 180° turns and basically becomes as strong minded as luffy.
So you basically find the entire concept behind One Piece where characters can surpass their own limits and weaknesses dull?
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@Thousand:
Except that Ace is about as ambitious as Luffy. Not as much but it's around the same level.
I wouldn't say it was around the same level, since Ace gave up his original ambition.
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Lol, I think we've established already that not everything hints to the opposite. You should at least have the guts to admit that if you want to put some credibility behind your argumentation.
So basically shanks warning WB that the strong ace who ain't strong enough to fight BB shouldn't continue his mission is now forshadowing that Ace wouldn't die? Please elaborate on that part. What do you think would Sengoku say about luffy? Or Kidd or whoever? They all have potential. If one of them die tomorrow in the new world against a strong enemy would that means bad writing? BAsically you're saying that every character who was named by a legend in this manga can't die. I fail to understand that logic.
I never denied that. I just think it's dull denying the very valid expectation of character growth albeit One Piece being a story that's built around that very concept.
Fair enough. I have trouble to see how ace will develop and become as strong minded as luffy or roger.
So you basically find the entire concept behind One Piece where characters can surpass their own limits and weaknesses dull?
If it means sacrificing tons of lifes then yes it is completely dull. "Aces character development needed the death of wb and a lot of friends"
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I wouldn't say it was around the same level, since Ace gave up his original ambition.
OK, let's say a level below. It still wouldn't be a complete 180 especially as Ace had original aspirations to be Pirate King.
And personally I believe, though it's undeniable to say that ambition to be the top is greater, the ambition to help someone be the best and protect someone is pretty large too. I mean Zoro was willing to sacrifice his dream to save Luffy and the crew in Thriller Bark. Does that mean his ambition is low?
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@Thousand:
OK, let's say a level below. It still wouldn't be a complete 180 especially as Ace had original aspirations to be Pirate King.
It's one thing to not have the guts to do whatever you can do to achieve your dream and it's another to toss whatever you wanted to achieve on the see because you've found someone greater than you.
And personally I believe, though it's undeniable to say that ambition to be the top is greater, the ambition to help someone be the best and protect someone is pretty large too.
That's the reason why ace is stucked on the level of silver medallists.
I mean Zoro was willing to sacrifice his dream to save Luffy and the crew in Thriller Bark. Does that mean his ambition is low?
No actually it takes a lot to do what zoro did. He was willing to sacrifice his life for luffy just because he believes in his captain. Ace was the captain. The one everyone in his crew looked up to. He failed to be a leader for them. Though i agree with you that he care for them etc but he himself really doesn't know what he wants.
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If Sengoku falls, who is going to take over?
Akainu? He is the most feverent follower of Absoulte Justice of the three Admirals, and has that whole "Whatever it takes for Justice to prevail" vibe.
