@Sonic:
Please, please, please make the play-in games two days long each. We can't have the match with Shackey until Sunday!
Afraid she'll lose to Shirahoshi, Sonic?
cacklecackle*
@Sonic:
Please, please, please make the play-in games two days long each. We can't have the match with Shackey until Sunday!
Afraid she'll lose to Shirahoshi, Sonic?
cacklecackle*
It comes down to who has the bigger set… oh wait! Damnit Oda!
Bonney turns Hancock into a kid.
Hancock acts cute.
Bonney discovers her lolicon side.
Hancock petrifies Bonney and wins.
Ah, nothing like a change of avatar to get the blood pumping…
So when does the first match officially start?
There is absolutely no way Moria can make it to the next round!
!
"We wouldn't say it's wholly impossible… But it would take a Miracle. Luckily for you, we can give you one with absolute Certainty. It may take a thousand years, but we could track down a Fragment where Gekko Moria is popular enough to win this Tournament. Hehehe...
! Would you like some help, Beka?"
! - Bernkastel, Witch of Miracles
Crocodile vs. Whitebeard!?
Why do you do this to me?!
Vote for Koala! She's gonna be BIG, one day!
Bentham a.k.a. Mr. 2 Bon Kurei - Does anyone really need a reason to vote for Bon-chan by this point?
X-Drake - Ex-Marine Vice Admiral (or was it Rear Admiral…?) and a Theropod Zoan to boot.
Montblanc Cricket - Not as badass as Montblanc Noland, but then few are.
Also: Koala - She may have only shown up in a couple of chapters, but I cannot shake the feeling that Koala will be back sooner or later, and will be AWESOME when she is. I'm willing to bet she's inherited Fisher Tiger's will just as strongly as Jinbe, and not just because of the Sun Pirates brand on her back.
Freakin' Warden (oops, got too ambitious… Vice Warden) Hannyabal - He may have been a "bad guy", but he showed more character in his one fight scene than any other member of the Impel Down staff.
Dr. Hiluluk - A man only dies when he is forgotten.
Montblanc Noland - Who could ever think that a man who looked so bizarre could be so awesome.
Emperio Ivankov - DEATH Wink!!!
@Sonic:
[qimg]http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae85/Ytterhogdal/buggyworship.png[/qimg]
So Buggy was Kira all along!?
Smoker and Momonga - Hell yes
Buggy - After Impel Down and Marineford, how could one NOT vote Buggy
@Cheesy:
I cant vote. Why not?
Check the Rules thread. They've disabled voting privileges for accounts that are recently created (i.e. within the past few months) to keep people from rigging the poll by creating duplicate accounts and voting multiple times.
EDIT: I type far too slow…
Fisher Tiger - Climbing the Red Line or not, the man was a legend.
Iceburg - Nma… I've been rereading Water Seven of late.
Galdino - Impel Down and Marineford did wonders for Mr. 3... I hope he and Buggy stick together.
I'd feel more sorry for Vander Decken, if he weren't the kind of person to propose to a six-year-old…
Hancock: "Who is the one…who put a Revolutionary Leader in the middle of my path?" kick
Luffy: "Vote for Hammock"
Hancock: "Actually, it's Hancock… :wub:"
Luffy: "Ahh... Sorry. Thank you."
Hancock: 'HE SAID "I LOVE YOU"!!!' faints
Bellemere: One Piece's first proof of concept that Marines can be awesome too.
Go Bellemere, go!
Awesome Octopus Fishman Standing Next to Jinbe on Page 17 of Chapter 624 doesn't look like he'll pull it out this year, but I'm happy with his solid showing all the same. Though, maybe I can try to believe in a miracle.
Perhaps when he gets a name… And, you know, characterization.
Some new stuff from Pixiv
I'm always amazed at how pics of a female Crocodile so often manage to maintain the sheer level of awesome given off by the original.
Otohime for President.
Blackbeard, Mihawk, and Aokiji are all roughly tied for second/third in my book.
The biggest plot hole is the one on Ace's chest.
As someone who's rather fond of Ace, that was far more amusing than it should have been.
Aohige said Koala's a girl, so add that.
And I think we know what animal she could be represented by….
A Koala.
If a human can learn/perform Fishman Karate, there's another mark in her favor…
@Mr.:
Koala must be 23 now. I wonder who she turned out to be (if she's not dead).
As a human branded with the symbol of the Sun Pirates (I presume), I imagine she'd be hard-pressed to do anything related to the World Government, even ignoring her history as a slave to the Celestial Dragons. Assuming she survives, I can therefore see three possible futures for her: a rural peasant's life (returning home and never leaving again); life as a pirate (I feel it'd be appropriate if she was a member of Jinbei's Fishman Pirates, personally); and becoming a revolutionary (a la Dragon).
I'm leaning toward the latter two myself… I'd love to see an older Koala play a role in the future.
Let it be known: Fisher Tiger is AWESOME!
Hodi and co. are older than I thought… I presumed they were in their early 20s currently, as opposed to late 20s/early 30s.
The Koala part was very touching. I hope she survives the flashback, because I'd love to see the Strawhats run into her later...or maybe she stayed on/came back and is now part of Jinbei's Fishman Pirate crew (presuming they haven't disbanded, of course). Regardless, I'm enjoying the kid's interactions with the Sun Pirates.
@Monkey King: I wish I had the time and energy to respond to your post in its entirety right now, but I don't… I'm a slow writer and I'm not exactly known for brevity, and what's more I have a lot of other things that I really need to work on.
Having said that, once again, I AM NOT advocating the destruction of Fishman Island. It is not my desire to see the fishman race displaced, whether intentionally or otherwise. Nor do I believe that they are to blame for their persecution. It is a systemic problem that runs throughout the World Government, but particularly at the very top. And it doesn't only affect fishmen… Those human nation-states that try to live outside of the World Government suffer just as much, if not more, as evidenced by Tequila Wolf.
Rather than picking my posts apart sentence by sentence and responding only to those fragments of thought that can be most easily misconstrued, try seeing the whole of what I am saying and, if necessary, voice your disagreements and ask for clarification on a few points at a time. Trying to respond to ~20 one-to-two sentence quotes, many of which are saying the same thing over and over again, is very wearying.
And as for Occam's Razor, that's fine for looking at something in the real world, where all the relevant information is readily available if one is keen enough to see it, but the world of One Piece is an unfolding narrative, where the relevant information may well be hidden away in Oda's mind until he is ready to reveal it. Dragon was introduced long before we had any evidence connecting him to Luffy. Ace and Luffy's status as brothers was known long before we found out that they'd had another. Robin was introduced as a woman who, at a young age (was it 9?), single-handedly sank a number of Marine battleships, which years later was shown to be wholly untrue.
What we are shown may be the truth, an incomplete truth, or entirely false. And it is all subject to change at the will of it's author. The simplest answer which Occam's Razor states is most likely correct cannot be proven, because we have now way of knowing whether we are seeing all of the question.
x+y=3
Solve for x.
Without knowing the value of y, the best we can do is x=3-y. That gives us a range of possible answers, of possible truths, but nothing firm and immutable.
@Monkey:
It is so many people though that it is almost becoming accepted like a rumor.
We have very little to work with as of yet. Speculation is pretty much all we can do.
@Monkey:
We can't randomly assume things here.
Nor can we randomly assume that things are exactly as they appear. Until Oda begins to give us clear answers, nothing anyone says is anything more than speculation and should be taken as such.
@Monkey:
This still works under the assumption that Fishman Island is a bad place.
I never said anything about Fishman Island being a bad place in and of itself. What I did say was that, in many ways, they are trapped there. Ostensibly they can leave, but when you could be snatched up and sold at any moment after you do so, can you really be called free?
@Monkey:
I would think because they have a monarchy it is very very old.
We don't know how old the monarchy is. It is at least 200 years old, as that is when they officially joined the World Government, but so far as we know it could have been founded as a nation the Thursday before that… I doubt it, and 200 years is nothing to sneeze at, but the World Government has been around for much longer than it has had official relations with the Ryuugu Kingdom.
@Monkey:
There is no reason people in Fishman Island can't freely travel except for racism above. You are blaming the island for something it has nothing to do with.
I never blamed the island, nor the people living on it for the racism they endure. Rather, I feel that neither it nor they are really doing anything to help end that racism.
They essentially have three options: rage against their oppressors, maintain the status quo, or work towards resolving the conflict in a peaceful manner. All indications tell me that, with precious few exceptions, they have been leaning towards the first two.
The people of Fishman Island are not to blame for their suffering, but it is their responsibility to stand up for their rights. Their oppressors will not simply hand them over, when it is both less troublesome and more profitable to keep the fishmen under their heel.
@Monkey:
And just like you say, all cities have their ghettos. So why is this significant.
It's significant because you seem to presume that Fishman Island is some idyllic paradise, where people only encounter problems if they leave. This is simply not the case. Fishman Island is directly in the center of the primary unauthorized route to the New World and as such is a stopping point for any pirates who desire to go there, and not only those of good and decent morals. It has been stated that, in the time between the start of the Great Pirate Era and Whitebeard's territorial claim of the island, the island was in chaos, with pirates rampaging around doing as they pleased. Whitebeard put a stop to that, but he's gone now, and I think the two years since his death haven't been quite as peaceful as you seem to believe.
@Monkey:
It regained that force. That force which was only needed as of 20 or so years ago when the pirate age started. There is no suggestion that there was any problem before that.
You seem to take all the problems and blame it on the island for some reason.
You have yet to name one that is the fault of the island.This isn't really a revolution, it's a coup since there does not appear to be popular support. And it is over dealing with racism.
The loss of Whitebeard's protection is a much larger issue than I think you realize. While they may not have needed it before the Great Pirate Era, they certainly did once it began and I don't think that it has somehow calmed down since then… On the contrary, Whitebeard's death has essentially given birth to the Second Great Pirate Era.
Perhaps nothing major has happened yet with regards to the resumption of predation on the populace of Fishman Island, but sooner or later it will... In fact, with Caribou on the loose, in many ways it already is. The threat of Whitebeard was enough to stop it, but Big Mom? Hodi and Jinbei (presuming they are both still around after this arc, not to mention agreed to work together on it)? I'm not so sure. And Luffy's still up-and-coming. He doesn't have the kind of pull and name-recognition that Whitebeard did as of yet.
Again, though, this is not something that is a flaw with the island, or its people. But it is something that I see to be a reality of the world they live in, and something that needs to be addressed. And it doesn't HAVE to be via Luffy reducing Fishman Island to rubble. The only reason that I even suggest it as a possibility is because of Madame Shirley's prediction, the viability and accuracy of which we can only guess at.
@Monkey:
No, not at all.
Again, absolutely none of this is any inherent flaw with the island whatsoever.This is like saying Drum is a crappy place because of all they went through.
Nation's go through problems all the time, this does not mean they are inherently flawed.
Nations go through problems all the time and that by no means implies that they are inherently flawed… But when a country has a militant uprising, whether it is a popular revolution or a coup implemented by a small group, that realistically threatens to overturn its established government, I wouldn't call it stable either. The fact that Hodi is willing and able to attempt this coup shows that the Ryuugu Kingdom is in flux. Whether Hodi wins or is soundly defeated, the course the nation takes in the future will change.
@Monkey:
Again, how is this an inherent problem with Fishman Island.
Again, it's not. But when the unrest reaches a point of violence, something has to be done, whether the ultimate blame lies inside or out.
@Monkey:
So?
So do you think that Fishman Island would be better off if someone drilled another hole through the Red Line and they never had to come in contact with humans again?
@Monkey:
ughhh….you are starting on this talk again.
Don't use that phrase, it is very very offensive to me, it is naive as well.
To call a nation state a "security blanket". Tell this to the Irish, or the Croats.Also you keep emphasizing an isolation that has never been suggested to really matter or be an issue. As long as travel is possible, it is not really isolation.
Some places are farther than others, that's not the end of any world.
I apologize if I offended you. It was not my intent.
But ultimately, I see the Fishman Dilemma as your standard trade-off between freedom and security. I look at Fishman Island and see security, but little freedom, even if the populace doesn't realize it for the most part. And what's more, I see that security dwindling.
@Monkey:
Do you actually know what goes on there? The people of those nations are all pretty well to do. It is the migrant workers from India and elsewhere who live very badly. They are in a state of limbo working the oil places and resorts.
There is again, zero suggesting any such social class at Fishman island.
You seem to be throwing anything and everything at this poor island lol.
All I meant was that a nation can seem well off without actually being well off. Economy plays a major factor in that, but is not the sole element.
Perhaps a better example would be Spain after its conquest of the Americas left it drowning in gold and silver so devalued that they were worth next to nothing? Or Italy under Mussolini and Germany under Hitler? ("Hey! Godwin's Law!" "…Dammit!") The Soviet Union under Stalin?
I say this not to imply King Neptune is a tyrant, but rather to say that what people see when looking at a nation from the outside is not always reflective of what is going on inside.
@Monkey:
If you are at the point of first world nations of real life not being good enough, the best we know, you have truly entered the realm of trying way too hard to paint this island badly. Would it have to be some utopia to never exist for you to finally approve? This is getting ridiculous.
Again, you seem to think I'm aiming my critique at the island itself. Rather it is the world the island finds itself in that I am critiquing. Were fishmen truly free to come and go as they pleased, I would see the island as a paradise. As it is, I see it as a gilded cage.
And if you think the US is without its problems, even as laughable as they may seem when compared to the issues facing other nations, I admire your optimism. We're better off than many, if not most, but we have our fair share of concerns as well, thank you very much, even setting aside the issues that the global economy causes for everyone.
@Monkey:
They are stuck, but it is in a nice place that is there's if nothing else.
The lack of freedom is bad, but that does not make the city bad, it is ridiculous.
Again, my issue is not with the city, but with the world it finds itself in.
@Monkey:
And explain to me why the city is at fault for a minority of extremists reacting to a history of racism from the world.
It isn't, but you can be sure that the World Government will punish them all the same. Fishmen are generalized by humans: painted with the same brush, as it were. The only way I can see to stop that is to make humans realize the fact that they are all individuals, which won't really happen unless they take the risk and mingle with the surface.
The issue at hand, as far as I'm concerned at least, is not whose to blame for the racism but how to put an end to it.
@Monkey:
Yes, a symptom of racism.
I agree.
@Monkey:
If they must be changed and struggled against by Luffy destroying something dear to them, then yes you are saying both of these.
:getlost:
@Monkey:
You are very much fooling yourself if you think Otohime's ideals were anti-Fishman Island.
If anything I'm sure she wanted to encourage the city to make peace with people above
Look even how it is that Jimbei described her ideas, make peace in the present for the future. Patience and endurance.
I never said Queen Otohime was anti-Fishman Island. I agree wholeheartedly with your view of her methods. I however, am of the belief that patience and endurance are not always enough. Suffer in silence and no one will ever know. Rather, they need to bring their plight to the attention of the world as a whole, or nothing will ever change.
Does this require the destruction of Fishman Island. Heavens, no. But it will never be accomplished if they stay largely cooped up at the bottom of the sea.
@Monkey:
And that is precisely why she was at odds with Fisher Tiger who wanted action.
The Queen and Fisher Tiger were at odds because Tiger was willing to use violent methods to achieve his goals, while Otohime was not. At least, that's how I understand it.
@Monkey:
Many many human societies throughout history. How do you think Polynesian peoples lived? They were certainly very very isolated.
And actually, maybe you are forgetting where it is that One Piece is from in the first place!
Clearly they can produce what they need, or are receiving enough in trade. This place has been here for at least 200 years you forget. And nothing suggests any population crisis. I do not think Oda would be worrying about population increase in his country of all places.
Fair enough.
But those nations who cooperate and trade with others have historically advanced much faster than those which did not. Maybe instead of stagnation, I should say that they will be left behind by the rest of the world. And eventually, if they are left behind, they will find that the rest of the world doesn't need or want anything they have to offer in trade… What happens then?
@Monkey:
Do they look envious to you??
Arlong does, though it only became apparent recently. That's the irony. He wants what he's told he can never have, equality with humans, and over time that sense of envy turns into hate and racism all its own. Why do they call his people inferior? Could it be because the humans themselves are the inferior ones and are trying to keep the fishmen from realizing it?
@Monkey:
And so why again is there anything wrong with the current island?
Nothing, save the psychological cage keeping them there. Again, the issue is not the island, but the world it is a part of.
@Monkey:
There really is absolutely no problem presented with physical isolation. It is not physical that is the problem. No one is worrying about things like economy and population. You are completely off the scent.
It is social isolation that is the issue. The inability to live among the world without hate and problems.
The social isolation is exacerbated by the physical one.
@Monkey:
No. It is not.
You do not turn to a country like Egypt that is having social unrest and revolution. And you do not say "hmm, apparently Egypt is a lousy place! See what happens when you live in Egypt?". Because that is not Egypt the physical place that is the problem. It is problems with the society and relations to other peoples like America and Israel.
Many years ago Egypt was a wonderful place. Maybe now it will become one again.
You are correct, but once again its not quite the same. Egypt is not hidden ten thousand meters below sea level. The social unrest and upheaval in Egypt took place in plain view of the rest of the world, while those taking place on Fishman Island are complicated by the fact that they are easily ignored by the World Government (at least until Hodi has his followers burn Mariejois to the ground or something). With Egypt, the rest of the world could exert pressure on Mubarak to help ensure the situation was resolved relatively peacefully. I can almost guarantee that the World Government couldn't care less what is currently happening on Fishman Island until it affects them directly.
@Monkey:
Why are you comparing a deliberate action of a man to natural disaster??
The drop of a nuclear weapon could have the same type of effect. Enel unleashing his lightning-bomb thingy (I forget what it was called) on Skypeia would have had a similar effect.
The point is that such things could happen; be it an intentional act of man, an accidental act of man, or an act of nature. And, as I have tried to state before, I am not advocating the destruction of Fishman Island, merely speculating on the effects such an event might have.
@Monkey:
You are operating on far more than quite a bit of what we don't know.
I am operating on what we have been told and what I perceive. I freely admit that I can be wrong, even wildly so, and have been known to misremember things, but I don't go out of my way to make things up wholecloth.
@Monkey:
So the island should be ruined for everyone? Why even would the ones who would like to move wish destruction on the island and forced relocation?
Again, the issue is not Fishman Island itself, but the current state of the world. Regardless of how it is achieved, the fishman race needs to make some strides toward equality, because it won't merely be handed to them in time. Those who desire to stay on Fishman Island should certainly be able to do so, but those who want to see the world have just as much right to leave and not suffer the persecution of humans for it.
@Monkey:
Sadly nothing. Forcing them has always proven far worse. Did you even read what it is that happened to my parent's home country?
When I say sadly, I don't mean "we should try to hurry this along," I mean "even at its fastest pace, this will take generations."
@Monkey:
I agree, now how exactly it that ethnic cleansing is then the solution I have no idea.
Firstly, its not ethnic cleansing. Secondly, it is not a solution. Rather, its a wake-up call of sorts, and by no means a preferred one. Fishmen are a part of the human world whether they want to be or not, but they've been largely content to remove themselves from worldly affairs and it has cost them dearly. Something needs to change in the way fishmen present themselves to the world, or the resentment of persons like Hodi and Arlong will fester until it bursts and provokes an unwinnable conflict with the World Government that will destroy everything their people have.
@Monkey:
What you are suggesting is tearing the leg clean off.
Again, I'm not suggesting it, merely viewing it as a possibility. But there are times when amputation is in the best interest of the patient, however unpleasant the prospect.
–-
On that note, I'm done for the night.
@Monkey:
One thing many people are saying is stuff about Fishman Island like it is a place the Fishmen were sent to live.
This has never been said.
In fact what was suggested is that this is simply where Fishman society sprang up because of the light.
People are making many huge assumptions here, like the aforementioned assertion that all Fishmen feel like Hatchi and Arlong. Also that even if they would like to live among humans, that this means they dislike living on Fishman island.
This is not true, it is self-evident. This is not a ghetto, it is a thriving happy city. Yes they may be limited from living so freely above water, but that doesn't make the places they can bad places.
Fair enough. A lot of assumptions are being made. However, as we have very little to go on as of yet, particularly in regards to the overall history of Fishman Island, that is about all we can do.
But the thing about history in One Piece is that it is not always as it appears. The issue of the Poneglyphs and the Void Century make that abundantly clear. The World Government is not above deliberately suppressing and rewriting history to achieve its goals and maintain its power. As such, we cannot be certain that the apparent truth of Fishman Island is the accurate one.
And a "relocation" would not necessarily have to appear forced. The fishmen have been highly persecuted for centuries. Perhaps it was done purely willingly, or the location was given to the fishmen specifically to serve as a refuge from the persecution they endured on the surface. Perhaps this occurred so long ago that it is not longer remembered at all, and everyone assumes that Fishman Island has always been the seat of their nation.
Or perhaps, as you say, it actually HAS always been the seat of their nation. As of yet, it's impossible to say for certain.
With that said, the very fact that the Ryuugu Kingdom became an official member-state of the World Government two-hundred years ago implies at least some interest in interacting with the human world. Are there those who don't want to live alongside humans? Of course there are. But so too are there those who do. And though I say live alongside humans, I don't necessarily mean as a part of an existing human kingdom, but as a fishman kingdom whose citizens are as free to travel the world as the humans living on the surface. In other words, as equals.
Fishman Island is a city, and an apparently thriving one currently, but all cities have their "ghettos" and, chances are, the Fishman District will prove to be one. What's more, it is a city which has, only recently lost the force that stabilized it for more than a decade (Whitebeard) and now, only two years later, is in the grips of a violent revolution. Any illusion of Fishman Island being stable is now crumbling, and it wouldn't be long, should Hodi successfully take over, before they were fully embroiled in war with the human world.
Even an apparently thriving city can hide massive reservoirs of social unrest…or small, but fanatic ones.
@Monkey:
But as we know, this was not an issue until the age of pirates started with Roger. Nothing about the islands founding can be said to have been thought of as being a pirate route.
True, but therein lies the point. Prior to the start of the Great Age of Piracy, Fishman Island was likely even more isolated than it is now.
@Monkey:
They can colonize the sea floor elsewhere, just not so deep as that. We have seen other cities on the sea floor. There was a fish town in Hatchi's cover story remember?
I think it is more that there aren't many places near the area where Fishman Island is.
And geographical isolation does not effect it. Look at how well off it is.
But therein lies another problem. Being closer to the surface increases the likelihood of contact with those humans who would exploit them. The existence of Fishman Island serves as something of a security blanket for the fishman race, where they can feel safe but are largely cut off from the world.
Also, being well off as a nation doesn't mean that everyone, or even a majority of people, are well off. Take a look at some OPEC nations, where the vast amount of wealth lies in the hands of those relative few who run everything and the vast majority of their people live in poverty. Or even look at the United States itself, with the ever-shrinking middle class and ever-growing wage divide between management and laborers.
@Monkey:
Like I have said, this does not make Fishman Island a bad place.
Not in and of itself, but its isolation is not merely geographical. If its people were truly free to go where they please, Fishman Island would be a fine place, but they are not. They are largely trapped in a gilded cage.
@Monkey:
That is full assumption though.
I would agree maybe if Oda had shown it to be an unhappy city, like a ghetto, which is what you are describing. I had even maybe expected this.
But Oda has shown a happy vibrant city, with happy vibrant citizens.
The problem with that outlook is that this "happy, vibrant city" is now in the grip of civil war. Luffy didn't bring that with him, it was already here.
Hodi (or even Arlong) is not the cause of this unrest, he is a symptom of it.
@Monkey:
This is another thing.
People continue to speak as if Fishman Island is dominated by prejudice and isolationist attitudes. But this is not the case.
If what you describe was true then the takeover of the NFP would not be much of an issue.Look, they are forcing people to step on a picture of Otohime, they are scaring people away from the status quo. Otohime's husband's rule.
I think it is an open society, I think the Fishmen are mostly open to humans, and peace with them as one planet.
That is what the NFP are out to destroy.I think what is bothering me most of all about all this talk is it is acting like all these Fishmen and Mermaids are antagonists of this storyline.
But they are not, that is the NFP. Why do you wish destruction on these nice people with a hard past. They are doing nothing wrong.
I don't wish destruction on the people of Fishman Island, nor do I think of them as antagonists. What I do think is that they are a people caught between a rock and a hard place: the violent anti-human movement that Hodi represents and the hard road of endurance that Otohime put forth. They embrace the status quo because the choices they have before them are between hate and suffering, and thus unintentionally add to the frustration that has been building for generations.
@Monkey:
This is self evidently untrue.
Really? Admittedly I could be wrong, but I can't think of any nation that can maintain a persistent state of isolation without starting to stagnate economically.
@Monkey:
I do not think this matters to them. It is clearly a sustained island.
Self-sustaining for now, but what happens if the population increases too much? What happens when they cannot produce everything they need and they don't have the relations with outside nations to trade for the excess?
@Monkey:
Where is this spiteful relationship among the people of the island outside of the NFP?
Resentment doesn't necessarily take the for of spite. Envy might be a better word. Given the right circumstances, this envy can easily turn into the spite of Arlong and Hodi if left to fester.
@Monkey:
Likewise, Ireland is part of the EU and UN.
But it remains a nation state.
These are not incompatible.
Again, you presume I mean that the fishman nation must ultimately be subsumed into some other existing nation to survive… This is not true in the least. The World Government exists like the UN on steroids, but its member-states are still allowed to maintain their own culture and national identity (with exceptions like Ohara, which threaten the WG).
@Monkey:
Here you are again, what have they done?? I really do not understand this point in the slightest.
Hodi and Arlong are violently anti-human. Other than them, all appearances go to the majority of the island's residents being fine with the statis quo: isolation. Perhaps I should have said "…by their own inaction."
@Monkey:
There is literally not any reason to think they are wasting away or stagnating.
And frankly the government is an enemy to them in all respects. You cannot say that an attack on it is unjust. It is not as attack on humanity to do so. Luffy has also declared war on it for instance.
The level of buried social unrest necessary to birth Arlong and Hodi is not enough?
And you are right, the World Government is, in many ways their enemy. But they are also its member-state. Whereas Luffy is a pirate, with a small crew with significant personal power that can go where he pleases and has nothing tying him to any single place, if a newly-crowned King Hodi were to make an attack on the World Government, they would find Fishman Island rapidly under siege. Their only recourse would be to either try and hold the island against whatever the World Government decided to throw at them (which would fail eventually and subject the fishman people to the full wrath of their persecutors) or to abandon the island and essentially become a just another pirate crew trying to stay a few steps ahead of the Marines (and once again leaving the residents of the island to take the brunt of the Government's wrath).
@Monkey:
It is destroying their land and cultural home. It is an awful thing.
It is honestly ethnic cleansing, even though the idea is benevolent for them.
It is a harsh thing… But so is a massive earthquake or volcanic eruption that reduces your home to rubble. Or any one of a list of disasters that might force a person or community to relocate.
@Monkey:
Why is it they cannot have their nation, AND interact with people. Nothing is against this.
It is really people above who need to change (also the NFP).Alabasta is a people and culture as well, should Luffy sink Alabasta and force them to move to Drum and mix? These are different cultures with islands that are centers of their culture. Why can they have these things but the Fishmen cannot? They are not a different species, but they are their own cultures.
I never said they couldn't. It's fully possible that Shirley's prediction was a hoax, or misinterpreted to mean something other than what it truly did. I'm merely operating on what we currently know, which is that Luffy is "destined" to "destroy" the island and that what we know of him precludes him doing so maliciously.
And again, I'm not saying the fishmen should be forcibly integrated into other nation-states. Ideally, they WOULD get to keep Fishman Island AND interact with other parts of the world as equals. But we don't know how events will turn out. Taking down Hodi, Decken, and probably Caribou might end up resulting in so much collateral damage to the island that nothing can be done in the short term. Luffy and his crew, as well as their opponents, have certainly proven capable enough in that regard in the past.
@Monkey:
That is extremely misguided and seems as if you have not even read the chapters that have shown the life on the island. It is good life.
People have different interpretations of what a good life consists of. Some are content to stay in their hometown for their entire lives. Others are not. Some can overlook the predations their people suffer elsewhere because they are not felt as strongly here. Others can not.
@Monkey:
Do you know how it these things are overcome in real life.
They are a matter of time. More and more younger generations do not care about prejudices as much as their parents. And more mixing occurs as people travel to places like cities where people are not isolated from others. Young Fishmen and Humans will be more friendly to eachother so long as new scars are not made, and time is given for old ones to heal. This is what I hope for Yugoslavia in the future.
And it is already shown in Ireland and England. The North Ireland has become much more peaceful. And the Queen of England will be visiting the country of Ireland. This is the wounds time can heal.
Forcing it is like calling an abortion a birth.
Only time will arrive at what you idealize.What Luffy can do to fight racism is to defeat people who want to encourage hate and race-war. He can defeat the NFP. The NFP are like the new forms of the IRA, they do not want peace that is slowly coming. They want to keep the fight up, and so they create new scars.
Luffy must defeat the NFP, that is all he can do.
These types of changes do happen slowly - too much so, sadly - but they only occur at all when they are addressed and confronted properly. When those in question pretend nothing is wrong and ignore the problem, the only thing that happens is the conflict is set aside for later.
Like a broken bone, these things cannot heal properly if they are not set first. Delay too long, and you'll just have to break it again.
On that note, good GOD I spent too long on this…
@Monkey:
It isn't a concentration camp, it is called a nation-state.
Do you have the same to say to so many real countries?? I will use an example I think more Americans are familiar with.
Are you against the existence of Ireland? Because it is the same history.
"No" you are saying "The Irish should remain part of the United Kingdom as ruled by English people". But they have a hard history together. So Ireland is independent now.
It's not quite the same…
Fishman Island is at the bottom of the sea, in the center of a route to the New World that nobody associated with the World Government chooses to use unless they are pursuing pirates, and as an official member-state of the World Government is probably not supposed to treat with those pirates in any way. They are geographically isolated and can't colonize the sea-floor due to the absence of light save in this specific location. They can't make a home anywhere else unless willing to risk the dangers of the surface. And while we don't know the early history of the kingdom, its fully possible that it exists precisely for that purpose: to corral the majority of the fishmen population in an out-of-the-way location where they cannot easily connect with the rest of the world.
Differences between various racial and cultural groups are not a bad thing, and each should have full control over their destiny, but it should be remembered that all are part of a global society. To become isolated from that global society is to gradually stagnate and starve, to be forgotten and overlooked, and eventually to die out. Regardless of long standing cultural conflicts, nations have to learn to get along with one another or the resulting resentment and petty conflicts will perpetuate and eventually escalate into open warfare.
The fishmen have an expressed desire to be a part of human - which is to say, global - society, but are being forcibly isolated, in some measure by their own actions. Eventually, their culture will die out if something doesn't change, by either growing so frustrated that they provoke a conflict with the World Government (as Hodi is likely to do) or by wasting away to nothing.
A nation, after all, is not a location, but rather a people. Destroying Fishman Island is not the same as destroying the fishman people, nor is forcing them to interact with the human world (something they already wish to do) somehow the same as trying to forcibly assimilate them into another culture. Rather think of it as removing the metaphorical "ball and chain" which ties them to the isolated depths of the sea.
Prejudices ignored will not fade away... Rather they must be addressed and confronted; something which has not happened regarding the fishmen for a long time.
In regards to Luffy's potential destruction of Fishman Island and its societal consequences, I think it's important to remember that at present the majority (as far as we know) of the Fishman/Merman population is confined to a single island in the depths of the sea. They are isolated from the rest of the world and what most humans know of them is what they hear from circulating rumors: rumors explicitly manipulated by both the Fishman Superiority crowd (Arlong/Hodi) and the Fishman Inferiority crowd (the Celestial Dragons and those who prey on fishmen in varying ways).
Essentially, very few people have firsthand knowledge of them, and the secondhand knowledge is being tainted by those interested in making fishmen appear inhuman (regardless of their overall motives).
What's more, since they largely confine themselves to Fishman Island, the fishmen are easily ignored by the World Government. Ostensibly, staying on Fishman Island keeps them safe (or more so, at least), but in many ways the Ryuugu Kingdom could be thought of as a concentration camp where the inmates are largely left alone so long as they keep their heads down and don't bother the warden (the World Government).
In that instance, destroying the island might actually be the best thing Luffy could do for the Fishman people. Doing so deprives them of a "safe haven" and forces them to take to the shallows, where frequent contact with human civilization is inevitable.
While that by no means will instantly halt the persecutions against their people, it will allow the fishmen to make firsthand impressions on the human populace, which will over time start to change the common perceptions of the race. When all you know of fishmen is that they are a brutish subhuman people who live far away, who cares what happens to them. But when a fishman is your neighbor, or even your friend, that feeling of indifference cannot hold for long.
Fishmen will suffer more than they already do for a time, but eventually the humans they live around will begin to see them in a different light and take notice of their tribulations. Once that begins to happen, the corruption that allows such discrimination will grow more and more apparent to those who were essentially blind to it.
At the same time, their new human neighbors will make impressions on the fishmen; the monolithic view of a humanity brimming with racial hatred that Arlong and Hodi put forth being confronted with firsthand knowledge of humans more than willing to give fishmen a fair chance. No longer able to hide in the depths, the fishmen a forced to face the facts that it is not all of humanity that is truly against them, but rather a powerful subset that exploits its own people just as readily as others.
This, I imagine, will be a major part of the ever increasing "tide" of change that is rising against the World Government. The Fishman's plight will not be solved quickly or easily, but the situation is currently teetering between self-destruction and enforced stagnation. The destruction of Fishman Island could very well be the trigger needed to push them towards a true resolution.
In regards to Jimbe's crew. Wouldn't his crew had been Arlong and and the Funky Bunch back in the day? Maybe he had to give up his crew when he became a Shichi because it would meant that he was working with humans, when alot of his crew woulda been anit-human at that time?
From what I understand, the Sun Pirates split into the Fishman Pirates (under Jinbei) and the Arlong Pirates (under Arlong) sometime after Fisher Tiger's death, though the details of that event are still largely unknown. So yes…at least initially, the two were a single crew, though I suspect the split was at least moderately even. Jinbei is a highly respected man among his people, so I don't think his embracing of Queen Otohime's methods would have driven off everyone, just those who desired a violent movement and were not disposed to Otohime's mindset to begin with.
Those who objected went off in their own direction, likely either joining Arlong or scattering follow their own path like Macro, leaving those more in line with Jinbei's views to make up the Fishman Pirate crew. And we can be fairly sure that there were at least some who remained, since (as stated by Keimi in Ch 609) once Jinbei renounced his position as Shichibukai, everyone who made up the Fishman Pirates had to leave the island along with him.
@RobbyBevard:
Jimbei never talked about his crew. His crew wasn't with him at or after Impel Down. He didn't talk about going back to see them after Luffy's flashback. They aren't with him now.
If his crew was going to be of any importance, they would have gotten more than a passing mention in the last 2 years of manga. Whatever Jinbe's relationship with them was, its pretty unimportant now.
Possibly… But Jinbei went to Impel Down of his own free will, in protest to the WG's proposed war against Whitebeard. That wasn't a scenario that his crew causing a ruckus would have helped in, and he never had a chance to contact them between his incarceration and the end of the war. They never really had a chance to show up and participate.
What's more, until this arc began, the details of the relationships between the Sun, Fishman, and Arlong Pirates had only barely been explored. Very little to go on, and most of what we knew tainted by its relation to Arlong. With exception of the fish/merman slavery issues brought up in Sabaody, the initial mention of Fisher Tiger by Hancock, and Jinbei's relationship with Whitebeard, we hadn't had any meaningful information on the history of the fish/merman race since the Arlong arc...
This arc as a whole, and this coming flashback in particular, is setting out to rectify that and, I imagine, it will serve to introduce at least a few Fishmen of note who are still Jinbei's allies.
That is my biggest question for now… if he has a crew... Where was it all the time. It wasn't at the war helping the man who protect their island and wasn't seen not a single time yet... jinbei is all alone all the time... But the statements are still strange
If I recall, now that he's no longer a Shichibukai, Jinbei can't afford to base his crew (presuming his Fishman Pirates are still together and haven't been absorbed into Hodi's group or something) on the island anymore, as it risks drawing the World Government's wrath down on the Ryuugu Kingdom for harboring them, which would only exacerbate the current problems regarding human-fishman relations.
Even though he's still highly respected among the island's population, Jinbei and his crew have been forced into a willful exile and, while Jinbei may be able to sneak back from time to time for important reasons, bringing the whole of his crew risks drawing unneeded attention.
I suspect the Fishman Pirates still loyal to Jinbei are roaming the under-sea "countryside" at present, much like Vander Decken had been, but I'd be willing to bet that they'll be coming to Jinbei's aid before the arc is over.
@S.C.:
You must have forgotten this. And really, what they are is if a Fishman joins, it's a battle of Otohime and Tiger's ideals with the New Crewmate for Otohime and Jones and his gang for Tiger and for them to be the apparent threat thus far.
You are right, I did forget that… That changes matters a little, with Hodi being callous enough to use his soldiers as unwitting fishman shields, so yes, quite a bit more of an asshole than I originally posited.
Having said that, this pushes Hodi even more solidly into the extremist camp. It is the cause that is important to him, above and beyond even the well-being of his allies (though there's always the possibility that fishman was a suspected spy or something like that and Hodi was just using the opportunity to get rid of him). Essentially, Hodi's sliding down the proverbial slippery slope... As of yet, his violence has served a greater goal, however perverted, but if he is not checked, eventually that violence will become the goal in and of itself.
If Luffy, Jinbei, and the events of this arc proceed quickly enough (and I suspect they will), they may be able to get through to Hodi before he devolves into a complete monster and does something that draws the attention of the World Government to him, which would likely end up cataclysmic for Fishman Island...
@Monkey:
I don't think Jimbei will be a supremacist. There is a difference in being hateful toward humans like Fisher Tiger, and being a supremacist like Arlong.
I'm not thinking the younger Jinbei will be shown as a Fishman Supremacist per say, but almost certainly more radical than he currently is (being an advocate for a more violent movement, rather than a peaceful one). But then, we don't know that Arlong was a true Fishman Supremacist at this point yet, either. I imagine the events leading up to and surrounding the deaths of Fisher Tiger and Queen Otohime will be the formative events that make each into the man he now is (or was when last we saw him, in Arlong's case).
@S.C.:
Hodi and his gang are way too big of assholes to be redeemed.
They're not "assholes", they're extremists. What's more, they're young extremists. Prove to them that the ideology of racial superiority that they adhere to is wrong and they will be forced to re-examine their belief system, which can change their outlook utterly. If done properly, even Arlong could redeem himself (not saying his crimes would be forgiven, but he could take steps to make amends for them).
I stated earlier in this thread, I think the younger Jinbei will prove more in line with Arlong with regards to his ideology at first, despite the fact that he's now so very different. I imagine the later events, those surrounding Tiger and Otohime's respective deaths, will prove to be the formative events which gave birth the honorable Jinbei we now know.
In other words, let the arc take its course before you condemn anyone as irredeemable. The sins of the past can never be wholly washed away, but in many ways that is the point.
Like I said, it's an underlying theme. Each one of those links has its own theme, but the slavery links all those themes together.
I think it's actually the other way around: slavery and racial persecution are specific themes brought up in a number of arcs, particularly recent ones, but the underlying (or maybe overarching) theme is that of the corruption of the World Government and its nobility which allows such atrocities to not only exist, but thrive.
I know, but it's a possibility. And Caribou doesn't seem to "belong" in this arc, so even if my theory is wrong, he may tie into another future arc.
On the contrary: Caribou personifies Hodi's view of humanity, incorporating all the vile, negative aspects of the global society that has repressed his people for so long. He is the baseline, to which the Strawhats can eventually provide a counter-point, opening the eyes of Hodi and co. to the presence of humans who can support the cause for Fish/Merman Equality proposed by Queen Otohime, if not the hardline Fishman Supremacy rhetoric of Arlong.
The current struggle is about the methods of the coming Fish/Merman revolution: whether it will be a moderately peaceful movement for integration with the rest of the world or a violent separation from it. The latter view, which Hodi currently embraces, is tragically self-destructive… Fishmen may be persecuted now, but they're still an official part of the World Government. Take that away and whatever meager protections that afforded them will be gone, while none of their people's problems go with them.
Caribou, I imagine, may well turn out to be the "end-boss" of this arc, with Hodi and crew serving as something akin to Wiper: an antagonist at first, but later an ally against a greater evil.
I am kinda of glad to have predicted that Caribou will set his eyes on the princess. I wonder if he is gonna team up with Hodi in order to kidnap her more easily. He cannot take on Luffy and Sanji at the same time.
He might be even interested to kill the SH to get their bounty.
With regards to Caribou, I can see him possibly allying himself with Vander Decken (particularly now that the latter's "offer" of marriage has been shot down), but Hodi would suffer a great deal of motive decay to ally himself, even covertly, with the man who is essentially personifies the very facet of humanity that Otohime, Tiger, Jinbei, Arlong, and Hodi himself have been fighting against for years, all conflicts of methodology aside. If anything, I can see Hodi allying with Luffy to bring down Caribou, though probably not without a mid-to-late arc beat down to make Hodi reflect on his methods first.
For Hodi to ally with Caribou, I can only see it being don in secret, so that Hodi can then hunt down and rescue Shirahoshi and the other mermaids in an effort to gain public support, but while his current alliance with Decken implies that he's not too concerned with Shirahoshi's well being (tied as she is to the Neptune/Otohime structure he's trying to tear down), I cannot see Hodi being willing to ally with a human slaver to achieve his goals because Caribou's character is precisely that which everyone involved in the "Fishman Rights" movement has been struggling with from the start. To ally himself with Caribou would be to betray Hodi's very belief system, and make him appear more interested in political power itself than in advancing his views of Fishman Rights, perverted though they may be. This conflicts with his willingness to shorten his life-span through Energy Steroid usage, advancing his belief system even at an ever-increasing cost to his lifespan.
Fixed the image link… Was hotlinking from Danbooru (that was wrong, I know... >_>;;), but I uploaded it to photobucket and updated the URL. Should be fine now.
Post Time-skip Franky. Probably NSFW. That is all.
!
I like stories that focus more on the "now" than the past. Personally, I'd prefer a summary of what happened over several pages rather than a long flashback. I want to see how the SH's handle the news, what happens afterwards, etc. rather than watching the news unfold in the flashback.
To me, characters like the SH's are the most fun for me to watch. I don't care much for depth in the development of these new characters like Fisher Tiger/Queen Otohime. I already know enough about them (the Queen is about promoting peace between humans and Fisher Tiger is about taking direct action). It's just how I prefer stories more. Unless these characters show up later (both are dead), personally, it's not important to me how deep their character is.
A flashback with Sabo, for instance, basically alluded to the fact that we will be seeing him down the line in the story, so it was interesting to see the flashback (even though much of it was a bore, but I can deal with it).
But oh noes, I'm disagreeing with the consensus, let's all react by flaming the user. Geez, learn to accept other people's, even if you disagree with them. There's not much productivity in responding to anyone you disagree with "you're in idiot, and your opinion sucks."
Yes, I'm well aware it'll likely answer that question, but the question could just as easily be answered across several pages rather than a long flashback. I'm hoping this flashback is short for that reason
Firstly, this is not intended as a "flame" post, so I'd appreciate that you not take it as such.
Having said that, the present is built upon the past. Flashbacks serve to provide us with the context needed to appreciate the characters' (old and new) actions. Fisher Tiger and Queen Otohime may be long dead, but their actions and desires influenced a number of others, not the least of which was Arlong, who in turn influenced Hodi. The current actions of Hodi's crew has EVERYTHING to do with the long-running conflict between Otohime and Fisher's differing methods to resolving the plight of their people. Without appreciating the nature of that conflict, neither we nor the characters can appreciate the nature of the current one, and thus it cannot be resolved in a satisfactory manner.
Luffy could stop the storytime now and go beat Hodi back up to the surface of the ocean - he's long had a "spider sense" of who needs to be taken down to resolve a situation (Crocodile, Lucci, etc.) - but everything would feel forced and disjointed, effectively turning Hodi into the "baddie of the week" rather than a true villain whose defeat has true meaning behind it. He'd be little more than a cardboard cutout, an utterly two-dimensional character who would be forgotten by the time the Strawhats set sail again.
What's more, Oda's been building to this arc and this flashback for quite some time. This flashback also adds to the character of Arlong himself: not giving him an excuse for his actions back in the East Blue, but adding some depth to them and showing what drove him to become the monster he was. It also ties in to the character of Jinbei, and Hachi. It shows what the man who saved Hancock and her sisters was like. Considering Tiger's actions in Mariejois, it is certain to add to the corruption of the World Government and the Celestial Dragons.
This flashback ties into the heart of the overarching narrative and, while a summery can tell you "what" happens, it is much harder to convey "why" something happens, and that "why" can change everything. Take the instance of Montblanc Noland back in Skypiea. All we knew at the start was that he came to Jaya and found a great city of gold, then returned years later to find it had vanished. By word of Cricket, we also knew that this made him weep, but at that time we didn't know why. Perhaps Noland was a greedy man, who merely wanted the gold for his kingdom and the prestige that would give him? It was only later, when we were given the full story of Noland and his friendship with Kalgara that the truth of that matter was revealed.
To go back to the Luffy/Ace/Sabo flashback: in addition to introducing Sabo, both as Luffy's other brother and as a possible future character, the flashback gave depth to Luffy and Ace's relationship. Prior to Impel Down, we really only had Ace and Luffy's word that they were brothers, and I don't mean that in a "someone check the birth records" way. Two men can be brothers, but not have much of a relationship. The story told through Impel Down, Marineford, and finally Luffy's flashback shows us the full depth of their brotherhood. They lived together, they played together, they fought together, and they suffered loss together. That story shaped Luffy into the person he was throughout the first half of the story. The "death" of Sabo, more than anything else, explains why he was always so willing to put everything on the line to help his friends: he never wants to feels that helplessness again; never wants to see those he loves in pain and not be able to help. That flashback helped to truly drive home the impact of Ace's death on Luffy.
I'm afraid this post's length has gotten a bit out of control and I have class early tomorrow morning, so I'm going to end it here… My point is this: the present is built upon the past and, without understanding the past, the present has little meaning. Without this flashback, Hodi would be a two-dimensional Arlong clone, while with it, despite Arlong's unmistakable influence, he has the chance to develop into a beast all his own.
And all that is only looking at one aspect of this arc. Vander Decken's story may not mingle with this flashback in the slightest, save for keeping Shirahoshi from attending her mother's funeral, and Caribou could yet turn out to be a major factor in and of himself, particularly if he gets his mucky paws on the Princess.
Clearly, you have some reading comprehension disabilities. I don't mind long drawn out stuff, as long as it is happening with the Strawhat characters. I'm one of those guys that thinks this arc is moving too fast, and hoped it would've progressed slower. However, I prefer the content to be more heavily on the Strawhats because those are the characters I read the series for. Not some side chars that I'll forget 1 chapter after the arc ends.
You can still get good depth of character without a flashback. Like I said, some text heavy panels describing these characters would do them enough justice in my mind.
Considering both characters are dead, yes they will entirely become irrelevant as the series progresses except for some passive mentioning of them.
The deceased characters in this flashback are not important in and of themselves… Rather, they are important because of the impact their actions had upon the current state of Fishman Island (alongside the status of Fishmen across the world), not to mention many of the principle actors in the unfolding drama.
Oh, wow. I was getting Booker T. Washington/W. E. B. Dubois/Martin Luther King Jr. vibes from this chapter all throughout. It's so interesting. I like the unpredictable way the arc is going; A revolution, moral destruction, flashbacks, Nami/Arlong stuff and Fishman explanations.
I loved Luffy throughout all of this. His calm before the storm attitude has always captivated me. It's the subtleties in his personality that are so interesting to me. And I loved Sanji in this chapter. The only other character in the series to have heard Nami's story is Zoro, but we don't really know if he was asleep or not during that explanation, but I'm glad Sanji remembered it enough to such an extent that he's even threatening someone of such power as Jinbie. It's the emotional connections that are so fun to wittness in OP, I think. And I loved Nami's little flashback. I actually did cry a bit reading that. It's interesting how Oda put forth the horrible inhumane and evil opinion of Arlong in our faces and then brought out the 'Arlong Park is Arlong's dream Themepark' and the incomming flashback.
Actually, Ussop was there as well. Everyone in the crew up to that point, sans Nami of course, had gathered back together by the time Nojiko decided to let them in on the story, though Luffy walked out on it.
What Sanji WAS exclusively present for (ignoring Luffy, who was almost certainly not paying attention) was Yosaku's introduction bit while the trio were sailing toward Nami's homeland post-Baratie, in which Yosaku mentioned the then-Shichibukai Jinbei in relation to Arlong. As such, Sanji IS the only one among them (except Nami, I imagine) who would have made the connection between the two without additional prompting.
At the risk of being burned at the stake.. I expected more from fisher tigers design, i dont think it's bad ass enough for the shit he got up to =(
A lot of Oda's characters don't have that initial "bad-ass" look to them, at least as far as I'm concerned. Many of them look rather goofy, others merely look plain. But as time goes on, and particularly as their stories unfold, they grow into their rightful badass status. Just take a look at Montblanc Noland…were it not for the epic flashback telling his story, I could never have assumed a guy that looked that ridiculous could be that awesome.
Give Fisher Tiger a few chapters and I suspect he will prove to be quite badass, initial impressions of his character design aside.
The fact that Macro was one of the founding members of Tiger's crew, and not some Sun-pirate wannabe that wore the tattoo, makes him the most despicable fishman ever.
In my opinion.Not only is he a traitor to his own kind, but also to his captain's ideal.
Bring him back into the story and BURN HIM AT STAKE.
While I'm by no means defending his actions, I am nonetheless curious what drove Macro and his team to their current occupation, much like how Arlong's worldview is becoming increasingly understandable, the evils he caused in Nami's homeland notwithstanding.
It could be, in some twisted way, that Macro became a slaver as a means to drag himself out of the World's metaphorical (and literal) depths. By preying on his fellow Fishmen/Mermen, Macro elevates himself to being the equal (after a fashion) of those humans who do the same, applying the doctrine of Human-Fishman equality on an individual level as opposed to a broader societal level.
Of course, that may be giving him too much credit… He might just be a greedy bastard whose moral convictions couldn't hold up to the potential profit that enslaving and selling his kindred could bring him.
I'm really digging the MLK Jr./Malcolm X comparison to Queen Otohime/Fisher Tiger's methods to resolve their people's plight.
I think we're going to see a different side of Jinbei in this flashback, one more ideologically in line with Fisher Tiger/Arlong/Hodi's militant approach to human/fishman relations.
I expect that the Sun Pirates, or at least some of their high-ups, had something to do with Queen Otohime's assassination (maybe Tiger himself, but I'm still not sure when his own death occurred in relation to the Queen's), with the murder itself or the lead-up to it being what ultimately broke the crew up, and likely what turned Jinbei into the man he is now. I think those who followed Arlong were likely ones who, if not directly involved, agreed with the assassination of Otohime and breaking off any thoughts of reconciliation with humans, while those who followed Jinbei were those who were swayed into Otohime's camp, whether before or after her death.
I'm also expecting that Arlong's being "set loose" by Jinbei was actually intended as exile, getting the war-mongering elements as far from Fishman Island and the seat of the World Government as possible, while Jinbei used his new position as a Shichibukai to try and rekindle the late Queen's wishes of peaceful reconciliation. That Arlong turned this exile into the beginnings of his plans of conquest was likely an unintended consequence, something that has been eating at Jinbei ever since.
Can someone with a better memory help me here. The flashback took place 15 years ago, would that be around the same time Arlong invaded East Blue? If so, then we're about to see how Tiger died sooner than I expect.
If I recall correctly, Arlong conquered Nami's hometown eight years prior to the start of the story, making it roughly ten years ago post-timeskip. So this flashback is, in turn, about four or five years before that.
Very, very happy to see where this is going. Glad to finally see the infamous Fisher Tiger, as well as the return of Arlong (in the flashback, at least, not that I was expecting him to be absent somehow…). Also, young-Jinbei has a particularly badass look that fits in well.
I'm liking the tragic duality that Oda's setting up between Queen Otohime and Fisher Tiger...and I'm suspecting that this is what ultimately gets them both killed.
Caribou finally makes his reappearance and now he's going after Shirahoshi too. I'm shocked. SHOCKED, I say.
I expect it will bring him into conflict with Decken (or maybe partnership, since the latter's now officially had his "offer" of marriage turned down).
Not that I'm surprised by this, but this arc is shaping up to be especially epic. I'm looking forward to it.
Finally, Sarfunkel? Seriously, Oda? If that pun weren't so horrendously bad that it somehow loops around to being good again, I'd be forced to hurt someone.
I imagine that Marco will become the next captain of the Whitebeard Pirates and I imagine they'll keep that name in honor of the old man, but Whitebeard's death shattered his crew's position amongst the Yonkou, and I believe it will be some time (longer than the 2-year timeskip since Marineford) before Marco can build up the personal power and sovereignty necessary to properly attempt to reclaim Whitebeard's former territories.
Not to mention that it's fully possible that those territories have been subsumed into the realms of the other Yonkou (Big Mom and Kaidou specifically), claimed by one of the New World's lesser powers, one of the up-and-coming Supernovae, or by Blackbeard himself.
Any of those would likely force a conflict, possibly of cataclysmic proportions, and with Blackbeard's direct role in Newgate's and Ace's deaths, I think it's possible that Marco would view the elimination of Teach as a top priority, above even securing and stabilizing Whitebeard's former territories under his protection.