Pog means persons other than grunt, LOL it's not a race thing in the least
It's a marine thing lol
No, no, I knew it wasn't a race thing. Sorry, I'm sick today and sometimes focusing is not my strong point. ;) I'm afraid I missed what you were aiming at with that, I need to go re-read it.
@Taz:
I find him and the chivalry he embodies completely impeding to Nami's development. I would like to see her do things, fight, take her share of hits and get just as dirty and messy as the guys, thank you.
I agree with that, I'd love to see it happen. But it won't because apparently in shounen girls aren't allowed to take real damage or whatever because it is inherently a bit sexist as a genre.
But in all fairness, Sanji really doesn't do THAT much for her. A lot of what he does is stuff she asks him to because it either needs to be done and nobody else is reliable enough to do it (see: shoveling snow off the deck of the Merry) or he needs to stop fighting with Zoro over something stupid (Davyback Fight, asking him to steer while they're escaping Enies Lobby). I don't ever remember him offering to fight anyone for her, nor him freaking out about the idea of her going to fight someone on her own.
Of course he would lol, ask your dad
if he was a pog, he'll know what I mean
So… by this definition then, white people can't think racism's wrong, too. ;)
See alivda .
As I recall, she was hot to trot for a skinny 17 year old with the mind of an 8 year old because he hit her. I hope you're not insinuating that Buggy goes for messed up pedophiles.
Sanji fans I have a question with all of sanjis catering to women has he ever got one?
No!
Vote buggy a man among men!
I'm sensing a flaw in that argument. Namely that Sanji likes catering to women regardless of how they respond. And Buggy's not getting any either. ;)
Yes I think it is lame for a straight man to cross dress yes I do ;)
But then again I'm a marine so I come with a closed mind
Heh heh
My dad's an ex-Marine and he'd agree with me. You and your stereotypes. XD
@Taz:
Buggy has brought good Nami development. Sanji has brought annoying stereotypes. Vote Buggy.
Sanji also brings her paella and free fruit Macedonia. Which do you think Nami appreciates more, that, or some guy who tried to kill her ten years ago?
Damn your right… Listen up those few remaining voters,
I appeal to your side of reason do you really want to vote for a pirate who originally was hyped up as a take no shit player/pimp pirate who got all the girls, but ended up being a third string pirate that is constantly and continually being beat by girls (and never actually got ANY), and eventually became an okama prancing around in a dressOver a captain who lead a crew of base line pirates halfway accross the grandline?
Wow, I love how you bag on girls in your whole post. Ladies, are you going to take that? Apparently if we beat a guy, it makes the guy EXTRA lame.
Also, it is lame to dress like us.
Okay, last post before nap. Really.
During the chaos of Enies Lobby, who remembered to save everyone on the first escape ship just before it blew up?
And who snuck off when everyone was still fighting and thinking of that moment, and closed the Gates of Justice because he was thinking ahead?
Again, quoting myself. Then I'm going to take a nap.
Okay, I wasn't going to get involved with the heavy campaigning this round since I'm still kind of disheartened about the Nami vs. Roger fight. I think someone mentioned the idea of a film critic looking at these two guys and seeing who had more character development, and while I'm not a critic, I am majoring in critical film studies, and since I'm home sick today, eh, I'll just wade in and make everything worse.
Buggy
! Buggy's a really fun character. I've never quite gotten him the same way a lot of people have, but he is a lot of fun when he shows up and he's got a great voice actor in the anime. I haven't really read into him much because there's not a whole lot to work with yet, but there is a backstory in there that Oda's working around to. I'm not going to try and speculate much on that because Oda usually surprises me anyway. He seems like an opportunist who looks for the easy money because he doesn't like putting himself at risk. He's on his way to the big war right now only because being on the ship with Luffy and the Shichibukai was safer than staying at Impel down with a rampaging Magellan. Before this, the last time we saw him he was mining for treasure with his crew. We know he bears a grudge against Shanks because he blames him for his accidental eating of the devil fruit, which he only wanted to sell. This is all part of what makes him fun; he's an opportunistic bully with self-esteem issues (why else would he still be kicking around East Blue after Shanks and everyone else went off to the Grand Line and The New World? why else would he be so sensitive about his nose?) and way more luck than anyone aside from Luffy has any right to have. ;) However, that's about all we know about him at the moment.
Sanji
! Sanji is one of the first characters in the series I really identified with. He's a really interesting mix of tough-guy exterior but inner softie. But the really interesting thing about him is that his genuine toughness comes from his caring for other people and his desire to protect them. At first this seems like it only extends to attractive women, but you actually see him doing it with other people, too, he's just less goofy about it. In fact, a lot of people cite his horniness as his defining characteristic, but I actually think it's self-sacrifice.
The Baratie
He stays at the Baratie despite Zeff and the other chefs actually trying to drive him off, giving up on his dream because of his obligation to Zeff for giving up his own dream to save him. He was willing to die to keep Zeff's restaurant in one piece just a little bit longer because he understood that it was Zeff's second dream. And since he'd let Gin go and bring Don Krieg there, if it had been destroyed or stolen, it's like he would have killed Zeff's dream for the second time.
He sticks it out through their worst insults, but it's only when he learns that they respect his cooking and want him to go for his own ambitions that he finally relents.
Arlong Park
During his fight with Kuroobi, it was the idea that he couldn't protect anyone that got him angry. This comes up again later in more subtle ways.
Drum Island
Uses himself as a catapult to get Luffy and Nami to safety during the avalanche, and as a result, winds up falling into it himself. He fractures his spine doing this, but later knowingly tries to go into battle against Wapol, even with the threat of re-injury. It take Kureha literally sitting on him to keep him out of the fight.
Alabasta
Switches up his first fight to go after Bon Clay because he beat up Usopp and stole his goggles.
Skypeia
Makes a sacrifice play on board Enel's ark to save both Usopp and Nami, taking another huge jolt of lightning so they could get away, and probably expecting to go down with the ship when it crashed.
Water 7
Goes after Robin and Usopp alone against a huge number of government agents, including the monsters of CP9.
Eneis Lobby
Despite his moral refusal to ever strike a woman no matter what the circumstances, does try to fight against Califa, using intimidation to try and get her to give up. When it doesn't work, and Nami has to go fight her instead, we see him briefly sitting, looking depressed and defeated, probably because he'd once again failed to protect/save Robin.
We don't see the aftermath of the tub landing on him, but the next time we see him, it's him showing up in the nick of time to save Usopp from Jyabura. (Interestingly, he invokes another European fairy tale here with Red Riding Hood– I'm wondering if his romantic ideas of chivalry and his love of fary tale tropes like the prince and princess are tied in with his upbringing in North Blue, which has a Nordic flavor to it from what we've seen.) It seems that he motivated himself to get up and get over what he couldn't do and concentrate on what he could do to help-- just like the speech he gave Usopp.
Thriller Bark
Tried to step up and take Zoro's place as the sacrifice to Kuma.
Shabondy Park
Starts berating himself when crewmembers keep disappearing because he can't protect them.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/10/
Blames himself for this and makes irrational decisions in anger and frustration.
Whew! I'm sure there's more, and that's just one major aspect of Sanji's persnality. I'm too tired to do more right now.
I'm quoting myself now, but I'm sick, so nyeh.
Okay, AP. You want to know badass? You want hardcore?
Feeding that. Every. Day.
And i still cant belive people object to him stabbing Zoro in the back, i mean what else was he supposed to do? send him a formal invitation to be attacked and wait til he replys. Like i said in another thread if Zoro didnt want to be stabbed in the back then he never should have given someone the opportunity to do so.
Well someone wasn't paying attention during the Mihawk fight. There are rules, man! It's swordsman etiquette, you never stab a man in the back because in the end, it only cheapens you. ;)
I'm not so sure Buggy would want you bringing his nose up like that. He's sensitive about it, you know.
Sanji is the triple threat of the OP world: power, brains, and skills. Who else could kick the ugly out of someone, and then kick it right back in? It's not even his area of expertise and he's using plastic surgery against people in psychological warfare.
@robbybevard:
Sanji has brought us fights with Pearl (And Krieg), Absalom, and Duval, some of the absolute worst fights, and characters, in the series.
Not Sanji's fault his lead fights can be lame. Besides, Sanji's most interesting conflicts are usually with himself anyway. ;)
Sanji also beat up on Bon Kurei, while Buggy was never anything but a friend to Bon and wished to celebrate his noble death.
Hey, Sanji just went to get Usopp's sniper goggles back 'cause Bon-Bon was a punk and beat him up. That's what friends do, man. ;) Besides, Bon possibly became awesome because of the valuable lessons of friendship he got from the fight with Sanji.
Sanji never backs down, even when there's no hope and the bad guys don't play fair.
That's what you Sanji-fan's are doing with Buggy stabbing Zoro in the back.
But… Buggy did that. It's in the manga and the anime. Sanji can't control what fangirls do to him, therefore it's not his fault. Victim-blaming is an ugly thing. Tsk tsk.
Yeah, okay, can we leave the homophobic stuff out? Seriously, it really rubs me the wrong way. It's like arguing against someone because they're Chinese; it's not an argument, it's just intolerant.
fixed.
EVERYTIME YOU VOTE FOR SANJI A FANGIRL WILL WRITE A BAD FAN FIC PAIRING HIM UP WITH ZORO OR NAMI.
Boooo! No victim-blaming!
Ever wonder what a real-life Sanji might be like? Try this guy on for size:
Okay, AP. You want to know badass? You want hardcore?
Feeding that. Every. Day.
Hmmmm in a match with Buggy vs Sanji who do you think that picture might be representing?
I knew who you meant, I was kidding. Just Jimbei was the one actually doing something in the picture. ;)
Vote for a true badass
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/6/62/Buggy.jpg
….. Jimbei?
I kid. The picture's a little too ambiguous for that statement, though. XD
Seriously, though, Norland fans! Guess who else is a fan of Norland. That's right, Sanji!
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/King_of_Liars,_Norland
In fact, they're both from the same ocean.
You want a Messiah?
Sanji will not only teach a man to fish, he'll teach him how to cook it.
But didn't he have to accidentally eat it. Sanji makes healthy food for everyone.
And won't make you pay if you don't have money. Truly a savior in these economically trying times.
No prob. I prefer character tournaments to be fought on character, not "*** is teh awesome!1!" ;)
Okay, I wasn't going to get involved with the heavy campaigning this round since I'm still kind of disheartened about the Nami vs. Roger fight. I think someone mentioned the idea of a film critic looking at these two guys and seeing who had more character development, and while I'm not a critic, I am majoring in critical film studies, and since I'm home sick today, eh, I'll just wade in and make everything worse.
Buggy
! Buggy's a really fun character. I've never quite gotten him the same way a lot of people have, but he is a lot of fun when he shows up and he's got a great voice actor in the anime. I haven't really read into him much because there's not a whole lot to work with yet, but there is a backstory in there that Oda's working around to. I'm not going to try and speculate much on that because Oda usually surprises me anyway. He seems like an opportunist who looks for the easy money because he doesn't like putting himself at risk. He's on his way to the big war right now only because being on the ship with Luffy and the Shichibukai was safer than staying at Impel down with a rampaging Magellan. Before this, the last time we saw him he was mining for treasure with his crew. We know he bears a grudge against Shanks because he blames him for his accidental eating of the devil fruit, which he only wanted to sell. This is all part of what makes him fun; he's an opportunistic bully with self-esteem issues (why else would he still be kicking around East Blue after Shanks and everyone else went off to the Grand Line and The New World? why else would he be so sensitive about his nose?) and way more luck than anyone aside from Luffy has any right to have. ;) However, that's about all we know about him at the moment.
Sanji
! Sanji is one of the first characters in the series I really identified with. He's a really interesting mix of tough-guy exterior but inner softie. But the really interesting thing about him is that his genuine toughness comes from his caring for other people and his desire to protect them. At first this seems like it only extends to attractive women, but you actually see him doing it with other people, too, he's just less goofy about it. In fact, a lot of people cite his horniness as his defining characteristic, but I actually think it's self-sacrifice.
The Baratie
He stays at the Baratie despite Zeff and the other chefs actually trying to drive him off, giving up on his dream because of his obligation to Zeff for giving up his own dream to save him. He was willing to die to keep Zeff's restaurant in one piece just a little bit longer because he understood that it was Zeff's second dream. And since he'd let Gin go and bring Don Krieg there, if it had been destroyed or stolen, it's like he would have killed Zeff's dream for the second time.
He sticks it out through their worst insults, but it's only when he learns that they respect his cooking and want him to go for his own ambitions that he finally relents.
Arlong Park
During his fight with Kuroobi, it was the idea that he couldn't protect anyone that got him angry. This comes up again later in more subtle ways.
Drum Island
Uses himself as a catapult to get Luffy and Nami to safety during the avalanche, and as a result, winds up falling into it himself. He fractures his spine doing this, but later knowingly tries to go into battle against Wapol, even with the threat of re-injury. It take Kureha literally sitting on him to keep him out of the fight.
Alabasta
Switches up his first fight to go after Bon Clay because he beat up Usopp and stole his goggles.
Skypeia
Makes a sacrifice play on board Enel's ark to save both Usopp and Nami, taking another huge jolt of lightning so they could get away, and probably expecting to go down with the ship when it crashed.
Water 7
Goes after Robin and Usopp alone against a huge number of government agents, including the monsters of CP9.
Eneis Lobby
Despite his moral refusal to ever strike a woman no matter what the circumstances, does try to fight against Califa, using intimidation to try and get her to give up. When it doesn't work, and Nami has to go fight her instead, we see him briefly sitting, looking depressed and defeated, probably because he'd once again failed to protect/save Robin.
We don't see the aftermath of the tub landing on him, but the next time we see him, it's him showing up in the nick of time to save Usopp from Jyabura. (Interestingly, he invokes another European fairy tale here with Red Riding Hood– I'm wondering if his romantic ideas of chivalry and his love of fary tale tropes like the prince and princess are tied in with his upbringing in North Blue, which has a Nordic flavor to it from what we've seen.) It seems that he motivated himself to get up and get over what he couldn't do and concentrate on what he could do to help-- just like the speech he gave Usopp.
Thriller Bark
Tried to step up and take Zoro's place as the sacrifice to Kuma.
Shabondy Park
Starts berating himself when crewmembers keep disappearing because he can't protect them.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/10/
Blames himself for this and makes irrational decisions in anger and frustration.
Whew! I'm sure there's more, and that's just one major aspect of Sanji's persnality. I'm too tired to do more right now.
I just like to pretend otherwise because for some reason it really bugs Kishido.
It bugs me too. Not people saying Sanji's gone okama, but the "fact" that that would somehow make him lesser, or degrade him in some way. I totally meant what I said on the last page about men being afraid of their feminine side and needing to embrace it. The truly strong people in the world aren't afraid of any part of themselves, even the pink, frilly, girly parts. ;) So maybe he has a ways to go, but if these solo adventures are about making them stronger, that's probably the way to go for him, since he sees women as these mysterious, "other" beings. Embrace that feminine side! Own it! Make it yours!
Aren't his veins throbbing in horror of his predicament?
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/544/01/
Sanji is but a shallow man.
Well from the way people are talking, he's gone full-okama. So which is it, people? ;)
Forget sanji's past now sanji's an okama whereas Buggy the Manliest dude at the moment, he may be coward but at the moment he isn't! he will do something cool just u wait
Funny, I always thought it wasn't the clothes that made the man, but the man in the clothes himself. Sanji's the same man no matter what he's wearing. I think that argument says more about the people using it than it does about the character. ;) Real men don't fear their feminine side, they embrace it and own it! Rock those pumps you hairy-legged stud, you!
Buggy dont lose to that burning okama with his chivalry he aint stant a chance against your Flashiness
You're seriously calling Sanji an okama (in a bad way) when Buggy wears makeup and has pigtails?
Okay then.
I'm going to say again that it's really sad people are using that drag picture as any kind of argument. It's even sadder that it might actually influence people. Especially after the awesome that is Bon Clay. Haven't we gotten past this yet?
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Ahh damn. One vote, that's nothing to be ashamed of, though.
Come on, Arlong and his gang took over her home because they were enslaved by humans. Her town was enslaved and her mother was killed by them. She has every reason to hate Hachi and throw him to the wolves, but she doesn't. Vote Nami, she stops the cycle of hatred amongst humans and fishmen!
Edit: Come on! That can't be it! there's still time! All the great stuff in this whole thread and we can't inspire three more votes? Come on, her boobs might be huge, but the heart under them is even bigger!
Come on, vote for the girl who never gives up.
Just a little more to keep her smiling. You can't take her smile away or Genzo will come beat you up.
Seriously.
Guess what was made possible by money donated by Nami? Oh yeah. That's right.
A vote for Nami is a vote for Sunny!
Vote for one of the most misunderstood characters in the series! Say no to overgeneralization!
Once again, lightning heats the surrounding air to three times the temperature of the surface of the sun, and she utilizes it based on her knowledge of weather and physics. With her brain. She can create mirages, clouds, and wind the same way. As much distaste as I have for that one page of her fight with Califa, a good portion of the rest of it shows off how clever and smart she is in a fight, to say nothing of relentless.
Nami's fanbase, everybody. Truly a well-rounded character whose fanbase is based solely on their laurels.
Considering you're the first person to post those in this entire thread, I think that speaks to Nami's fanbase pretty well, thanks. ;)
To answer your question, Yes, yes it is Nami's fault, and you know why.
Masculine entitlement and systemic objectification of the female form? How is that justifiable? ;)
Boo for victim-blaming! It's Nami's fault Oda suddenly became a pervert?
There really would be no competition for Nami if more people knew what Acid Head was.
I know what Acid-Head is and I fail to see how mediocre porn would be an asset to her.
@robbybevard:
Similarly, for all the akwardness of Sanji's current crossdressing experiance, I'm sure that will actually pay off when it comes to his attitudes towards women, and it will be interesting to see how he may have changed the next time he sees Nami and Robin. Cause the little recurring character gags are fun and amusing, but they HAVE been on some of the cast members going on for 10 years, so its interesting to see a slow and subtle change in these sorts of things.
I'm hoping this is the case, too. I've been a little uncomfortable about that particular scenario just because I'm not sure how Oda's going to play it. Normally, I'd trust him, especially given the recent stuff with Bon Clay and Ikanova, but then the hit the girls have taken in terms of usefulness and the sharp increase in their vulnerability still make me pause. Femininity is not being treated terrifically well right now.
I'm really curious to see how she interacts on fishman island, and to Jimbei and the like. She seems to understand that Arlong… was just Arlong, and not represenatie of all fishmen. Because it would be really sad that if after Arlong developed that attitude due to slavery issues, Nami perpetuated it. But she seems to have gotten past that, which is nice.
I agree on this. I'm really anxious to move on to this storyline and see how Oda addresses it. I'm way more excited about character growth for the crew than I am about the shift in world power thing that's going on right now.
Or maybe Nami is good at math, but she assumes ZORO isn't?
Sort of backs up the teasing argument if you look at it like that.
Reposting again.
In the world of OP, Nami's a true underdog. This is a world that seems to function primarily on physical strength, and since Oda's women are notoriously physically weaker than the male characters, Nami's got to be smarter and emotionally tougher to achieve the same goals. She harnesses lightning, illusions, and potentially other meteorlogical phenomena not through use of a devil fruit, but through her brain.
Besides, when was the last time anyone ever encountered a 100% accurate weather person?
@robby: I figured you were kidding, but I love debating and you were raising points that some people do actually believe, so I took the opportunity to try and refute them. I thought it was fun. ;)
Because most other characters haven't nosedived the way she has. Nami is the storytelling equivalent of a washed-up rock star. All her best "hits" happened years ago, she hasn't done shit since, she's hit a downward spiral, yet we're supposed to believe she's still good now?! No, she was good then. Now she's terrible.
So to use your example, then that makes all her past hits worth nothing? Some people are all about "what have you done for me lately", but others are attached to their fond memories of those old hits and hope for more in the future, even if it might be unlikely. No need to call their entire career a waste.
Except the Arlong arc went out of its way to portray Nami's greed as having a noble cause. ALL of her money hoarding over the years, even as a child, went to paying off Arlong. At that point there was a sympathetic reasoning behind a trait that made her friggin' betray the crew. Some level of greed and thievery I could accept, but when she started haggling Zoro for several hundred percent interest on money he needed to buy the swords he needs to friggin' fight, I was taken aback. The fuck was the point of that, other than to be a complete and total bitch?
And when did we see her really busting his chops over all the money he supposedly owes her? She used it once to get him to go save Vivi at the end of Whiskey Peak, but that was more to actually get him to do something. I don't recall seeing her actually going all loan shark on someone and demanding her interest money. I always considered it more of a teasing thing that maybe she's keeping track of and maybe she isn't, but regardless, she's not being a hardass about it.
And that was back when she still had worth as a character. She lost her worthwhile traits, but kept the bitchy qualities, and gained a shitton of exploittation. Again: faaaaantastic.
Personal interpretation. I won't deny she's taken it in the shorts in terms of fanservice and important things to do lately, but my frustration with that comes from thinking her character deserves better.
