Commerce between the Blues

[FireFistAce 0]

Here's a good question.

North Blue and East Blue are seperated by the Red Line, as are South Blue and West Blue. But each pair is cut off from the other by the Grand Line.

Yet commerce still occurs. How?

It's a mystery question that really can't be answered. Perhaps East Blue's view of the Grand Line is skewed? As far as we've seen, the Grand Line is rough, but the actual "towns" seemed pretty tame. Water 7 and all the towns featured in Alabasta Kingdom are pretty mild. Mocktown was bad because it's a town of criminals (obviously), and Whisky Peak was a crappy place because it was nothing but bounty hunters.

If we figure that the main source of trade between North Blue and East Blue is via land, and the same with West Blue and South Blue, we must also assume that in order to trade with the other Blues, one must enter and exit the Grand Line. At which point can this be done? Marijoi, possibly, but didn't they state during the Norland flashback that only those with special permission can do that? As the "Center of the World", One would expect it to be a trading center. But per Oda, it's not.

So what's the alternative? That's a good question. Perhaps there are "Safe routes" through the Grand Line, like guided canals that cannot be used to enter the Grand Line, but to exit it and travel THROUGH it.

To me, the seakings and the calm belt aren't what keeps people from entering the Grand Line from anywhere. What keeps people from entering from anywhere is the fact that upon entering, their compass becomes worthless. With no island to set it to, they're effectively marooned. If these canals were built, it would allow an exit, but a very useless entrance. This would explain how a lot of people exited the Grand Line (Krieg, Marines, etc.). Makes sense, doesn't it?

Anyone else have any ideas?

[*Meh*]

If North, West, East, and South Blue all touch on the Red Line, couldn't trade vessels from the respective Blues dock there? I expect they would sell cargo from whatever Blue they originated from, buy fresh cargo from other traders, then return to their respective ocean. There is probably a point somewhere along Red Line narrow enough for ships from all four blues to dock on either side of the line. Setting up a Grand Bazaar at such a place would only make sense. It would also make sense that the Marines would have a sizable presence there, given the opportunity for piracy.

[FireFistAce 0]

But that's just the point. The only two points where the Red Line and the Grand Line meet are MArijoi and Reverse mountain. The elevation of Reverse Mountain would make it impossible to cross, and traffic through Marijoi is by special permission only.

Trade across the Red Line is thus impossible outside of E-W trade, short of traveling across the poles, which I doubt is the case.

Ships would HAVE to cross the Grand Line in order to get to the other two Blues. There's no way around it.

[Ubiq]

@Fire Fist:

Yet commerce still occurs. How?

Well, we really don't know that the Red Line is completely solid all the way around the world; there may well be canals through it at locations other than Mariejoa and Reverse Mountain.

We can't see the entire coast of East Blue in the Color Walk map, so it's possible that there are ways to sail from East to North Blue and from South to West Blue.

Marijoi, possibly, but didn't they state during the Norland flashback that only those with special permission can do that? As the "Center of the World", One would expect it to be a trading center. But per Oda, it's not.

Lvneel needed permission (hundreds of years ago mind you, things might be different now) to send a fleet filled with soldiers that were quite obviously intended to establish a colony/military base on the Grand Line; that's a bit different from your average commercial traffic.

So what's the alternative? That's a good question. Perhaps there are "Safe routes" through the Grand Line, like guided canals that cannot be used to enter the Grand Line, but to exit it and travel THROUGH it.

Considering that Sanji is from North Blue, but appears to have wound up in East Blue while aboard the Orbit, it's fairly likely that there's a way to travel from one Blue to another without having to venture on the Grand Line proper.

On the other hand, that section of the Grand Line is probably relatively safe enough for a cruise ship to sail on without too much to fear from piracy.

With no island to set it to, they're effectively marooned.

Not really; they won't be able to chart their journey, but it's quite possible to sail in a straight line so long as somebody is constantly at the helm and holds the course. How else could Norland find anything?

[bevin]

Why couldn't someone set up a commerce route across the Red Line as well, anyway? Dock the ship, unload the supplies onto a cart, send it across to the next port, load it onto a ship, send it on its way?

[Malintex_Terek]

Hmm.

North____East
–-----=--------
South___West

From Mihawk's map. Grand Line is the "---" and Red Line "="

So, from the other side of the world,

--------------->[Trade]
[Trade]<–------------

East____North
-------=--------
West___South

--------------->[Trade]
[Trade]<–------------

...

I do not think Red Line is solid, and that Marieoja's location is full of scattered islands rather than a full continent. If this is true, it's safe to mingle between the Blues at Marieoja's entrance, and Lvnveel would's ave had a tough time navigatin a fleet through this island break in Red Line.

If Red Line is solid on both sides of the globe, commerce is generally restricted to the Northern or Southern hemiospheres, with some imports occuring near where we have entrances to Grand Line.

It's safe to assume that there's more trade going on between South & West Blue and North & East Blue than between North & South and East & West.

@bevin:

Why couldn't someone set up a commerce route across the Red Line as well, anyway? Dock the ship, unload the supplies onto a cart, send it across to the next port, load it onto a ship, send it on its way?

There would likely need to be special animals for doing that, since the first wheel in all of One Piece turned out to be on Tom's train.

[Porter]

@Malintex_Terek:

There would likely need to be special animals for doing that, since the first wheel in all of One Piece turned out to be on Tom's train.

What about Smoker's Billower Bike? It even has tires. ^^

I think Maryjoa is still a good location for trading. Maybe that special permission is only for ships sailing from one half of the Grandline to the other… maybe thru a canal. People on land might just cross this canal over a bridge and thats it. What do we know?

[Itzal]

@Malintex_Terek:

There would likely need to be special animals for doing that, since the first wheel in all of One Piece turned out to be on Tom's train.

Smoker's bike…?

Edit: Sorry, didn't read the post above.

[Yoska]

What's cool is that I still had this age old picture of mine (and I still haven't compressed the size):

! Reverse Mountain to enter Grand Line and "Verse" Mountain to enter Blues.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Porter:

What about Smoker's Billower Bike? It even has tires. ^^

It does? I guess so; I always thought it was smoke-powered.

Still, it's odd that there are not too many carriages/caravans in the OP world. Not that there's been any really solid land to use them, but I'm surprised wheel appearences are few and far between.

[FireFistAce 0]

Only there's not a mountain at the other side of the Red Line, Yoska, but a city. So the rules would be a bit different…

And sailing in a straight line is impossible, remember? Even for a few seconds. Nami took her eyes off the direction for like a second and they did a 180. Granted, that WAS the first stretch of the Grand Line with several conflicting magnetic fields, but...

In any case, there probably are canals going E-W, but the only real way for commerce to happen N-S is Marijoi. As far as we know, anyway, unless there are canals that go under the grandline (Like the English Channel)

There were a couple wheel appearances in Alabasta, if I recall... vendor's carts and such. And Bon-chan's ship had a paddlewheel, remember?

[Porter]

@Malintex_Terek:

It does? I guess so; I always thought it was smoke-powered.

Yeah, well it's powered by his devil-fruit-powers, just like Ace' boat is powered by his. But you were talking about wheels, not engines or anything.

Still, it's odd that there are not too many carriages/caravans in the OP world. Not that there's been any really solid land to use them, but I'm surprised wheel appearences are few and far between.

We can't tell about the whole OP world, cause all we know is the sea route the strawhats take.
The deserts of Arabasta are no good ground for wheels, camels and ducks seem to be much better, although they did transport the rain-powder on a cart. Or was this just in the Anime?
Water 7 needs no wheels as well…
But on the Redline? We don't know.

[Yoska]

@Fire Fist:

Only there's not a mountain at the other side of the Red Line, Yoska, but a city. So the rules would be a bit different…

Ah, I shouldn't had called it a mountain… lazy me. Anyway: the thing where all the Blues crosses but which isn't Reverse Mountain. I do remember Red Line having two cities but their locations were never pinpointed. Could very well be there but I don't see how it would be in away of my old theory of using this spot as a traffic route. Quite opposite actually, cities usually gets built by traffic routes. But what was "sailing in a straight line is impossible" about?

[Ubiq]

As far as the wheel thing goes, don't forget Buggy's clowncar.

@Yoska:

I do remember Red Line having two cities but their locations were never pinpointed.

According to Nami, there are two locations (Viz translated this as one city, which is probably a retcon based on the fact that we don't see a city at Reverse Mountain) where the Red Line and Grand Line intersect that have cities; that doesn't mean that there are only two cities on the Red Line period. Fuusa Village may well be on the Red Line itself judging by its location in the Color Walk map of East Blue.

Could very well be there but I don't see how it would be in away of my old theory of using this spot as a traffic route.

Mariejoa is most likely a center of trade as well as a center of government. Again though, there has to be a way of going from East Blue directly to West Blue; it'd be hard to ship fresh fish there if they had to detour through the Grand Line or cross the Red Line by convoy.

But what was "sailing in a straight line is impossible" about?

I think it's just confusion about how the Grand Line works. It's impossible to sail a straight line via following a compass as Zoro demonstrates, but there's no reason that you shouldn't be able to hold a straight line by keeping the rudder locked in the same position.

[FireFistAce 0]

Then what would the whole point of getting that bird from the forest in Jaya be for? If anyone could sail straight S on the Grand Line, currents permitting, Anyone with steam or alternate (DF, for example) Power could enter the grand line, if they knew where to avoid so they don't get eaten by Seakings.

Also, half of the Jaya Arc would have been time wasted.

[Ubiq]

@Fire Fist:

Then what would the whole point of getting that bird from the forest in Jaya be for?

Because it's the only way to correctly judge your compass heading? That's, uh, kind of important if you're headed for an exact location.

If you can't sail in a straight line on the Grand Line, then how is possible for individual people to sail on it? Mihawk seems to get where he needs to be without too much trouble and he apparently spends much of his time sleeping. Ace is capable of doing so as well and he's simply using his own flame for jet propulsion to drive his skiff forward. Lafitte is also capable of moving around the Grand Line by himself. There must be some way of accomplishing the feat of sailing in a straight line or the series is impossible.

Whatever happened to that South Bird anyway? He came back onboard at the end of Skypiea.

If anyone could sail straight S on the Grand Line, currents permitting, Anyone with steam or alternate (DF, for example) Power could enter the grand line, if they knew where to avoid so they don't get eaten by Seakings.

Which apparently limits the choice to Reverse Mountain, which the Seakings probably avoid because the currents would tend to bash them into the mountain, and Mariejoa. The Marines apparently have a way of keeping them away from Navy vessels, which presumably means that World Government vessels would also know how to do so.