Central europe . Czech republic . And I guess I may idolise the monarchy a bit , seeing the shity quality of our presidents since 1948 .
But I do think this is OT so .
Central europe . Czech republic . And I guess I may idolise the monarchy a bit , seeing the shity quality of our presidents since 1948 .
But I do think this is OT so .
Ah ok, I was curious.
Got refered to AP from this thread .
http://forum.lide.cz/forum.fcgi?akce=forum_data&auth=&forum_ID=20897
But this is realy OT .
Anyways could someone post the whole list here ? Link doesn't work for me .
@No:
Such as every president . Realy it's a same same thing , except in theory a monarch is groomed in politics their whole yout and adolescence . People like say Chavez ….are not :P
But we're way offtopic .
Oh believe me Sea I do . I'd pleadge aliegance to the heir of our throne right away if I ever met him too .
Everytime you say "in theory" you reveal you have no arguement, and that you are also intensely ignorant of what actuqlly qualifies as monarchy.
There is no rulebook in any monarchy stating "competence" is involved. it is literally hereditary competition among noble families and nothing more.
This is both reality and how monarchy looks on paper.
You as a citezin have no choice or say in this matter and are either lucky to have a good dictator, or more likely, a bad one. And this leader can remove any rights at all that they want (after all you oppose republicanism so we're talking absolute monarchy). He could turn you into a serf overnight if he wanted since there is no constitution outside of the monarchs demands.
And frankly it's in his interest to make more profit for himself and family by exploiting the masses then it is to let you have your own jobs and goals. Lest you be the ever power threatening middle class that doesn't have as much time taken up by suffering to just sit and take it.
So next time you claim "in theory" say "in comics and movies" just for honesty's sake, kapeesh?
Anyone living in Central Europe should know how much Monarchy and dictatorship sucks from their own history.
"Hey, guys, remember when we were a patchwork of mostly German speaking nobles that constantly fought and got destroyed by eachother and big families like the Habsburgs and Bourbons? Then Napoleon?"
"sigh, yes, yes I do…stupid social democracy presiding over perfectly nice living standards for the general public..."
"And and and, rememebr when the unchecked power of Hitler conquered us and murdered thousands of our peoples? And that we Czech's were barely lucky to not be lobbed in with the other Slavs as being inferior races? And then the unchecked power of Stalin turned us into an East Bloc country? That had it's attempt at self determination and more liberal laws literally ran over by tanks from the USSR?"
"Those were the days man, those were the days."
@JERK:
Everytime you say "in theory" you reveal you have no arguement, and that you are also intensely ignorant of what actuqlly qualifies as monarchy.
You aren't going to change my opinion nor my beliefs JD .
And I know exactly what qualifies as a monarchy , for your information those are this arguments of the countries' (and many other asociated) monarchist parties , exactly identical to the arguments of the chairman from the last pre election debate this spring .
So let's keep this civil okay ?
Hey remember when dictatorship meant that Brezhnev stayed boss even when he became old and senile? And that regardless of him being an old senile man no one could do anything about even getting a new dictator because the old senile man in power could just say no?
No maam I do not!
@JERK:
So does the Vatican or Lhasa, but both of us can still go there.
As far as I'm aware the initial restriction was and remained the Grand Mosque of Mecca, and then the Saudi government has extended that to the entire grounds of not only Mecca, but a city which was never included in the prohibition, Medina. It's basically an enclave or a fort. I wouldn't have a problem if the Vatican fellas decided to shut up shop.
Also probably something to do with keeping pot-bellied short wearing tourists at bay.
Fuck the Queen.
@JERK:
Hey remember when dictatorship meant that Brezhnev stayed boss even when he became old and senile? And that regardless of him being an old senile man no one could do anything about even getting a new dictator because the old senile man in power could just say no?
No maam I do not!
Uhm , I was editing the post . So no , what I say is not ignorant nor unfounded .
So please can we not get into this sort of argument ?
@No:
You aren't going to change my opinion nor my beliefs JD .
And I know exactly what qualifies as a monarchy , for your information those are the arguments of the countries (and many other asociated) monarchist parties .
So let's keep this civil okay ?
Monarchist parties are populated by far right wing nutjobs who more often then not have too close associations with blackshirt organizations whose WW2 nostalgia isn't exactly related to victory.
These people are every bit as guilty for fantastical nostalgia as are you.
If you think something having a political party makes it not a laughable uneducated mess you have a great deal to learn.
Are there any examples in history of functioning monarchs and or dictatorships where the people were happy and the country was prospering because the leader was generous and or smart enough to realize that being a nice guy was good for long term ruling?
It's my belief , JD . It's also far from messy .
Not to mention the leading neo nazi/racist party in my country is "The Labourer's Party of Social Justice" , which was formed after the original was banned for neo nazi conections - they just made a new party with the exact same leadership and member base with one extra word , and even proudly state that they are the same party .
And no one can do anything about it .
So let's just end this convo , what do you say ? And not cause I'm out of arguments or anything , but I just don't want to start a mess here .
@ TLC : Marie Therese and her son Joseph , from my history for example . It was around this time that the term of "benevolent dictatorship" began to be used .
@Thousand:
Are there any examples in history of functioning monarchs and or dictatorships where the people were happy and the country was prospering because the leader was generous and or smart enough to realize that being a nice guy was good for long term ruling?
Yes.
And then that specific monarch dies, and because succession is retarded in monarchy people like Nero come into power just as easily as Augustus did in the first. Because "he's related to me" is the way leaders work in monarchies.
Or better yet another family or general takes advantage of the power gap and BOOM string of grisly killings decide the next leader, or more likely a civil war that ruins the nation.
Succession is retarded in Monarchies period. And you're lucky if it's good in dictatorships. So no matter how good the first guy is, it can and probably will be undone by whoever comes next.
Entire kingdoms existed under this principle of one good leader, then his sons can't live up to that for not being statesmen just because they are related to him and the kingdom falls within a century.
fuck monarchy.
Finland has enough bad memories from that shit thanks to both Sweden and Russia.
hunger years comes to mind
It's my belief
I don't give the remotest shit about this.
It's also far from messy .
Says the man who can counter nothing at all.
Not to mention the leading neo nazi/racist party in my country is "The Labourer's Party of Social Justice" , which was formed after the original was banned for neo nazi conections - they just made a new party with the exact same leadership and member base with one extra word , and even proudly state that they are the same party .
And no one can do anything about it .
So let's just end this convo , what do you say ? And not cause I'm out of arguments or anything , but I just don't want to start a mess here .
Son, how many times do you think I've heard this?
@ TLC : Marie Therese and her son Joseph , from my history for example . It was around this time that the term of "benevolent dictatorship" began to be used .
For her luck in that she got to be in power at all given how monarchy is patrilineal (ladies in the house should love the political limits of a good monarchy), and the fact that she was able to protect you as best she could from…..why is it? My goodness! From territorial claims made by other monarches because of their lineage!
And Joseph the II failed to do what he did because omg it endangered the nobility so they fucked with him.
And we all know how the Habsburg's empire ended up.
A dying miserable kingdom unable to satisfy it's disparate people and with shaky old leaders whose lack of successor suddenly sparked World War I.
Enlightened Absolutism was a transitional phase and nothing more, it can't be a sustained movement due to the very nature of monarchy. And when monarchy couldn't close the doors of enlightenment it lead to revolution.
doodly doo doo im tsar "nick" the zecond
im incompetent as a motherfucker and got in power because me dad was king or tsar or whatever, he never had time to teach me kinging cuz he died suddenly lol
i guess russsia could pick a good elader instead??? naw im his son nigga, im leader now
Russia sucks ass at everything for decades then revolution and civil war happened
Monarchy!
No Maam, can you explain us a bit more why you feel nostalgic? What makes you believe your country would be better if it was a monarchy?
Monarchy is fine if it's only a traditional institution separated from the real governing with monarch being more of a symbol than anything else. Than monarchy has a nostalgic and refined feeling to it ( unless the crown prince constatly throws drug free parties at hisown 250 year old palace and mother queen assasinates every other love interest of her son) and can be left as it is - only if the county's budget has enough funds to maintain this kind of gimmick.
I'd like to but I think Jerk Disease would respond to it with something including either the words "ignorant" "derp" or something along those lines . Anyone wants I'll send them a PM .
@No:
I'd like to but I think Jerk Disease would respond to it with something including either the words "ignorant" "derp" or something along those lines . Anyone wants I'll send them a PM .
Well, I am interested.
If you can't defend your views don't bother having any.
I can , Airflow . Just not all concerned parties here wish to keep emotions out of this so I'm trying to stop the thread from detoriating further . Anyways , this is me last past on this topic in the thread here .
Yeah totally send me one too
Heh, interesting. So the problem with Monarchies and Dictatorships isn't the principal of governing itself as it is the shaky succession of the leaders. I mean sure it's easy to abuse your position but really can't that abuse happen in any form of government just in less straightforward ways?
Every European monarch were more and less inbred with each other and because everyone so damn obsessed about royal blood and possibilitys of political marriages.
Every country had legimate heirs to multiple other countrys and most popular reason to wage war was to appoint countrys own heir canditate to country what was missing king… and because almost every european country had intrests of getting benefical new king to that country there was plenty of reasons to wage war... 18th century was particulary vicious one...
Current monarchies are mere PR tool for countrys and something to boost citizens pride of their country, its expensive but effective.
I hope you won't be antagonistic towards me for saying what I feel , I don't rightly know you from this site yet .
Basicly , it's a combination of the "groomed for politics since childhood" argument , the fact that I adore ceremonies , have a foundness for anything ancient and , most of all , have both a bitter experience on the history of my nation regarding it's presidents , (most of them dictators ) as well as I find the treatment of our last king fully unjust .
Also it has something to do with a state of mind I guess . I think before the Great War , in europe at least , things were a lot less hectic then now .
This is what I got.
go wild JD
@No:
I can , Airflow . Just not all concerned parties here wish to keep emotions out of this so I'm trying to stop the thread from detoriating further . Anyways , this is me last past on this topic in the thread here .
Why does it matter if you post it here? This is a message board. It's not like you're literally throwing yourself to the wolves (wolf). We're already hiding behind our computers, so why hide even further than that?
so , how bad was belgium ?
@metteminne:
so , how bad was belgium ?
You remember the king's question, congo, the abortion law problem, …
And who knows what kind of problems we"l get with Filip. He doesn't seem to be as passive as his father.
You remember the king's question, congo, the abortion law problem, …
And who knows what kind of problems we"l get with Filip. He doesn't seem to be as passive as his father.
all our kings where idiots , and our politics arent much better , but i have to admit i am a suporter of the n-va (not only because he was in a game show)
@Thousand:
Heh, interesting. So the problem with Monarchies and Dictatorships isn't the principal of governing itself as it is the shaky succession of the leaders. I mean sure it's easy to abuse your position but really can't that abuse happen in any form of government just in less straightforward ways?
Yes, except democracies have things like checks and balances, accountability, and a lack of absolute power in the hands of the leader.
So all the normal warts of every political system ever can be better addressed.
lol bananahammock, you my nigga for the momant
@No:
Basicly , it's a combination of the "groomed for politics since childhood" argument
Kim Jong Il was groomed for politics, but whoops lack of accountability and complete power and suddenly he thinks economy is boring and spends money on golf courses while people eat tree bark?? no way…
, the fact that I adore ceremonies ,
This is irrelevant to anything that matters.
have a foundness for anything ancient
So you're a boutique conservative. Cool duder.
Get a job at a historical society dressing up as inbred Habsburgs and stay the hell away from politics.
and , most of all , have both a bitter experience on the history of my nation regarding it's presidents , (most of them dictators ) as well as I find the treatment of our last king fully unjust .
Poor Habsburgs.. dragging the whole of Europe into the mouth of hell, and then relying almost entirely on Germany to even not be beat by the people they themselves instigated.
Also it has something to do with a state of mind I guess . I think before the Great War , in europe at least , things were a lot less hectic then now .
Yeah because Imperialism, Napoleonic wars, various wars for territory against Russia and the Ottomans, widespread industrial abuses, fermentation of radical politics like communism and anarchism, German wars against Austria and France, revolutions abroad and at home, casual anti-semitism sexism and racism, the days man, the days.
Europe treated it's governments as personal cartels for their leader's enrichment by exploiting and essentially enslaving half the world while barely paying attention to people at home.
And whoa who would have guessed power hungry might-is-right empires living next to eachother would rip eachother to pieces eventually when some dumb bullshit set the dominoes moving. Dumb bullshit like trying to swallow up more territory that the Habsburgs just had to have!
Poke Serbia, poke Serbia, poke Serbia, BANG.
@metteminne:
all our kings where idiots , and our politics arent much better , but i have to admit i am a suporter of the n-va (not only because he was in a game show)
Well if you wanna know, I voted Nva too and not because of Bracke.
Well if you wanna know, I voted Nva too and not because of Bracke.
then you did it because of de wever
joking , but i am suprised , to see somebody from brussel to vote for nva is very very rare :happy:, well i think he isnt doing that bad , he just says , look flanders voted for us because they want the following things, we want them and else we just can keep arguing
still with the all the left politic parties its going to be hard
I didn't grow up in Brussels but in Flanders.
Milquet pissed me off and De Wever is the only capable politician of this generation. I am sure he's pulling it off. Also because Di Rupo is smart enough to see that they have no other option right now.
I just hope De Wever will stay party president after the negotiations.
I didn't grow up in Brussels but in Flanders.
Milquet pissed me off and De Wever is the only capable politician of this generation. I am sure he's pulling it off. Also because Di Rupo is smart enough to see that they have no other option right now.I just hope De Wever will stay party president after the negotiations.
yeah miquet was a bitch :p , and indeed de wever might be the best politician we have now and di rupo should be smart enough , but i dont like the cd&v and spa much. tobback ,vandelanotte and vandebroecke were the best in the spa and they dont really use them anymore and i cant stand genez and everybody in the cd&v , even torfs, never get straight to the point
and i hope that di rupo becomes the prime minister so that if the goverment falls again that they can see that it isnt always the flemish there fault
and i think that the wever will stay party president :happy:
lol at a French guy entertaining pro-monarchy discussions.
Hi, I value political ideas if they involve pretty ceremonies and big plumed hats, and I demand to not be made fun of.
@JERK:
lol at a French guy entertaining pro-monarchy discussions.
Well even in France they exist. The buffoons.
Wait! I've never said I was a pro-monarchist. But since he didn't want to post it in this thread, I think this wasn't very nice to post it here.
Well even in France they exist.
Unfortunately yes. But very few people take them seriously.
No Maam, did you get angry when reading the Drum arc.
"Oda-san…that's not how it's supposed to work..!!"
Celestian dragons - Oh nice costumes!
Everybody bows - Oh nice ceremony!
Still lollling at him literally thinking the late 1800's and early 1900's were a better time then now "in Europe at least".
No Maam, you want a dictator like this?
! MDz8jtMrm9s
I can´t believe finland is the best country in the world…I refuse to believe it.
I can´t believe finland is the best country in the world…I refuse to believe it.
Well it is quite nice in here….. but this list is bullcrap.