Sabo's Fate? Vol. Alive Revolutionary Or ???

[Airflow]

@Deicide:

I never said that. I said the scene could be a red herring that would gain significance later in the story when we see what Dragon did that day.

Indeed it could be. And Ace's death could be a red herring to his eventual return as Gol D Ace!

You've devolved into an AGOG line of thinking.

FOr example, maybe the one injured was Dragon himself, after he did something to the tenryuubito in Goa Kingdom that day. I never said anything about random people being hurt.

Cept Dragon seems perfectly fine in the next panel, nobodies assisting him or tending to any wounds and he wants to leave immediately. Hardly the victim of "horrible" injuries.

If you wish for me to admit defeat, then the day Sabo is proven alive, I'll put a "Sorry, I was wrong about Sabo" in my signature. Until that day comes, none of you has any right to call me "wrong" or "defeated".

You're wrong.

But that's besides the point, this isn't an ego match as much as it's an attempt to get everyone to accept obvious truths.

Which makes the red herring more convincing, if it's really a red herring.

ahahahahaha

Do you really believe the average One Piece reader's going to think "Oh, the Tenrybito arrived 2 days after the fire, making it extremely unlikely it's a victim of the fire." Only a few people here noticed that and we have members here who ruthlessly analyze every panel.

In any case this is a bullshit line of reasoning, you've given us no reason to believe it's anyone but Sabo and your only argument is "BUT IT MIGHT NOT BE!". Yeah, Luffy might be a marine mole. But he's not.

I mean your last point is basically you saying "Yeah I know it's incredibly unlikely and doesn't fit the facts BUT IT'S ALL AN OVER-ELABORATE TRICK SO ODA CAN FOOL THE 1% OF PEOPLE WHO PAY THAT MUCH ATTENTION TO THE SERIES!"

[Wagomu]

@Deicide:

Why? Isn't admiting that the opposite of my opinion is a big possibility enough for now? It's more than what every single one of you are willing to do.

Don't insult other members so easily. That doesn't make for a good defense.

The day I'm proven wrong, I'll be wrong and that will be that. But right now none of you can prove that I'm wrong. Being in the minority does not make me automatically wrong.

It makes you pretty dull-witted in this case.

@Deicide:

I never said that. I said the scene could be a red herring that would gain significance later in the story when we see what Dragon did that day. FOr example, maybe the one injured was Dragon himself, after he did something to the tenryuubito in Goa Kingdom that day. I never said anything about random people being hurt.

If you wish for me to admit defeat, then the day Sabo is proven alive, I'll put a "Sorry, I was wrong about Sabo" in my signature. Until that day comes, none of you has any right to call me "wrong" or "defeated".

Which makes the red herring more convincing, if it's really a red herring.

I believe you misunderstand the idea of a good red herring. A good red herring shows you something shocking, or at least flashy, that affects the main characters in some way without actually having any truth or relevance, like Sabo's supposed death. A bad red herring would be a short line of dialogue or small event that isn't remarked upon any further or made known to the protagonists, like treating Sabo on the ship.

[Deicide]

@Airflow:

I mean your last point is basically you saying "Yeah I know it's incredibly unlikely and doesn't fit the facts BUT IT'S ALL AN OVER-ELABORATE TRICK SO ODA CAN FOOL THE 1% OF PEOPLE WHO PAY THAT MUCH ATTENTION TO THE SERIES!"

As far as I'm aware, the "Sabo is alive" supporters are the majority of readers, not just "1%" of people.

[Halfmetal-lich]

@Deicide:

As far as I'm aware, the "Sabo is alive" supporters are the majority of readers, not just "1%" of people.

I agree, and to anyone who says otherwise..I show this.

[Deicide]

@Halfmetal-lich:

I agree, and also, do you know how to show images on the forum? Something from Photobucket I wish to share with yall.

[ img ] image_url [/ img ]

But without the spaces.

[Ivotas]

@Halfmetal-lich:

I agree, and also, do you know how to show images on the forum? Something from Photobucket I wish to share with yall.

Just copy, paste the image.

[Airflow]

@Deicide:

As far as I'm aware, the "Sabo is alive" supporters are the majority of readers, not just "1%" of people.

The majority of people think Sabo are alive because it's obvious, not because they've analytically worked out that it's pretty much impossible for it to be anyone but Sabo.

[Halfmetal-lich]

I figured it out..thanks!

[Robby]

I already said before. That's obviously Usopp's mother that Dragon rescued.

[Zik]

@Sammsy:

i didn't say i didn't realize he was a logia, just said i wasn't going to refer to his type of fruit until it was proven.

is that wrong?

No it's foolhardy cautiousness and what's sad about it is there's nothing of value behind it. You're not committing to a claim due to the 1% chance you're wrong all for the sake of it not being a certainty yet despite the blatant self-evidence on a forum that predicts, makes theories, and suggest supported and baseless speculations.

It's not that serious and it comes off pretty stupid and petty. It really seems like you just won't believe it to be true just in case you might be wrong but I see Demon Rin has been forming this select group of members that think this way.

I'd says posts like that are worse than the members who genuinely believe the opposite for w/e reason. Like why even bother posting? You're stance is honestly not worth an argument and it just ends up with ppl mocking you and laughing at you struggle on this path of ineptness. I mean seriously believing something to be highly likely but waiting until it's in the manga when it's that obvious is a joke.

and wiki is a figure of speach. It's like saying don't put it in writing until you know its true. 99.9999 (infinity nines) % is not true. So if there was some fan databook or whatever that people put out, it would be WRONG to put he is alive in there, even if they end up right.

There isn't and even if there were it wouldn't matter. Word to all the crap written in Hancock's OP wikia

and as said dragon could have been hurt, could have been any number of other trash survivors that didn't get on the boat that day but he found later, could have been sabo, could have been bluejam, hell dragon could have stopped at another island for all we know. All hints and logic lead to Sabo being the person, but as I said, don't put it into fact until it is.

Hurt from what? What could Dragon be hurt from? What in the flashback indicated Dragon might be hurt? Baseless speculation is not a foundation to assume the opposite of the obvious.

As for it being mt. trash survivors, that just shows me you didn't understand the context of the conversation and haven't read what Aohige has repeated a dozen times in the chap thread. Maybe there should be a disclaimer so all the dopes who lack reading comprehension or aren't familiar with the English language can grasp the huge hint.

If you actually understood that page you could only speculate that Dragon brought some other person that wasn't Sabo that was also gravely injured that night which is the same day that Sabo got attacked by a world If you actually understood that page you could only speculate that Dragon brought some other person that wasn't Sabo that was also gravely injured that night which is the same day that Sabo got attacked by a world noble and if you believe it was really a red herring that's even more sad. That would mean you have no feel for Oda as a story teller.

[HaxeyeMihawk]

Lol I figured this thread would be closed by now, unless Oda goes M. Night Shymalan on us and goes with a scenario like what Deicide is saying (which he won't), then it's pretty damn obvious that Sabo is alive and pointing out how it's not guaranteed after all the facts have been layed out (and in my case miscomprehension being cleared up) is just trying to devolve the discussion into nothing more than a stupid argument over semantics. I could say that there's a chance that the world will explode tomorrow, am I right that there's a chance? Yes, but at the same time the chance is so miniscule that it isn't even worth mentioning, same deal here.

But god am I butthurt (yeah I admit it) that Oda went with the cliche ass scenario of Sabo surviving but also him becoming a revolutionary which are both the top two poll results in this thread, it's just ugh… but again I'm just going to wait and see what he has planned for Sabo.

[Kishido]

It's truly amazing… How can people deny that Sabo is alive for sure but on the same time say Boa is joining for sure?

[JERK DISEASE]

@Deicide:

Which makes the red herring more convincing, if it's really a red herring.

It's not a red herring because you don't know what a red herring is.

You're suggesting Oda is randomly fucking with us. That's not a red herring.

You're arguement is terrible. Your position is terrible. Your rational for why we should stop laughing at you is terrible.

Oda put that scene there knowing full well that everyone would jump to the conclusion that it was Sabo that needed help. It fits perfectly, right? But why make so much mystery for something that everyone is now convinced will happen? Why not just show the injured Sabo and be done with it already?

Because Oda is making this comic primarily for children you dong.
Kids aren't going to know that's Sabo.
Kind of like you and the ironic carry over bad-posters-of-the-newcrewmate-thread demographic who just happeneds to be on the wrong side of another issue.

[Sheotard]

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[OneManCollectiblez]

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[Sammsy]

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

No it's foolhardy cautiousness and what's sad about it is there's nothing of value behind it. You're not committing to a claim due to the 1% chance you're wrong all for the sake of it not being a certainty yet despite the blatant self-evidence on a forum that predicts, makes theories, and suggest supported and baseless speculations.

It's not that serious and it comes off pretty stupid and petty. It really seems like you just won't believe it to be true just in case you might be wrong but I see Demon Rin has been forming this select group of members that think this way.

I'd says posts like that are worse than the members who genuinely believe the opposite for w/e reason. Like why even bother posting? You're stance is honestly not worth an argument and it just ends up with ppl mocking you and laughing at you struggle on this path of ineptness. I mean seriously believing something to be highly likely but waiting until it's in the manga when it's that obvious is a joke.

There isn't and even if there were it wouldn't matter. Word to all the crap written in Hancock's OP wikia

first how does Aikanu's being a paramecia, logia or even zoan matter at all? his fruit regardles of the class means jack shit story wise. He is super strong regardless what it is classed in, so why the need to class it prematurely and have some more Lucky Roo fastest man in world, and other falacies that are floating around that 90%+ of people seem to believe.

Waiting to say something is fact isn't the same as beliving. You and everyone in the world can all believe that something is true, but stating it as true "officially" before it is, is just wrong.
@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

Hurt from what? What could Dragon be hurt from? What in the flashback indicated Dragon might be hurt? Baseless speculation is not a foundation to assume the opposite of the obvious.

As for it being mt. trash survivors, that just shows me you didn't understand the context of the conversation and haven't read what Aohige has repeated a dozen times in the chap thread. Maybe there should be a disclaimer so all the dopes who lack reading comprehension or aren't familiar with the English language can grasp the huge hint.

kind of tired of over half your posts bringing up someones reading comprehension. I clearly stated that i believe that it is sabo, but that doesn't make it fact.

How about you tell me what we beleived last chapter? Hmm dragon left with the rescued trash survivors and then a couple days later sabo is shot. Oh but wait this chapter we learn that dragon didn't leave, he stayed back and only his entire crew left. So what from flashback indicated he was hurt? Nothing. What from flashback last chapter indicated Dragon stayed behind?

I said in another post that we were also hinted at missing treasure. What happened to it? Was it burned in fire? or did Bluejam steal it. And if he is alive he would be severely injured and then he could have been one Dragon brought back. It could have been any other random person missed in fire.

So i bring up again, what did this flashback do to indicate that Dragon stayed behind without his crew? If last week I would have said that when we saw all the revolutionaries had left that dragon stayed behind and then saved Sabo, that would have been baseless speculation. But looked what happened.

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

If you actually understood that page you could only speculate that Dragon brought some other person that wasn't Sabo that was also gravely injured that night which is the same day that Sabo got attacked by a world If you actually understood that page you could only speculate that Dragon brought some other person that wasn't Sabo that was also gravely injured that night which is the same day that Sabo got attacked by a world noble and if you believe it was really a red herring that's even more sad. That would mean you have no feel for Oda as a story teller.

no i can only assume that, i can speculate whatever the fuck i want to speculate

[Retsudo]

@Sammsy:

first how does Aikanu's being a paramecia, logia or even zoan matter at all? his fruit regardles of the class means jack shit story wise. He is super strong regardless what it is classed in, so why the need to class it prematurely and have some more Lucky Roo fastest man in world, and other falacies that are floating around that 90%+ of people seem to believe.

So did you think the other Admirals being logias was just one big coincidence?

[Sammsy]

@Retsudo:

So did you think the other Admirals being logias was just one big coincidence?

what? I didnt' say he wasn't a logia. I assumed he was. I just wasn't stating what type of devil fruit it was, it didn't matter. Whats wrong with saying Aikanu has a Mamga devil fruit versus saying he has a magma logia devil fruit before it was proven that it was indeed a logia?

Was just saying no point throwing it into data books as fact until we are told.

How does being a logia versus a paramecia affect the story at all? There is no point to making something fact that isn't YET, and thus leading to the mass confusion always on this site.

If you have been around I'm sure you notice non stop every day it seems people are being corrected on their false assumptions on something. And yet now we are being called Illiterate morons for not accepting 100% that Sabo is alive and leaving it open that it could be a as someone said M Night shamabingaling on us and make us all believe it is Sabo and then later throw us a twist of it being a badly beaten Bluejam with Ace and Sabo's treasure.

[Retsudo]

I'm pretty sure Sakazuki being a logia was proven by how the other 2 Admirals were logias even before he first slipped past a hit.

You know, patterns.

[Lutzu]

@Sammsy:

what? I didnt' say he wasn't a logia. I assumed he was. I just wasn't stating what type of devil fruit it was, it didn't matter. Whats wrong with saying Aikanu has a Mamga devil fruit versus saying he has a magma logia devil fruit before it was proven that it was indeed a logia?

Was just saying no point throwing it into data books as fact until we are told.

How does being a logia versus a paramecia affect the story at all? There is no point to making something fact that isn't YET, and thus leading to the mass confusion always on this site.

If you have been around I'm sure you notice non stop every day it seems people are being corrected on their false assumptions on something. And yet now we are being called Illiterate morons for not accepting 100% that Sabo is alive and leaving it open that it could be a as someone said M Night shamabingaling on us and make us all believe it is Sabo and then later throw us a twist of it being a badly beaten Bluejam with Ace and Sabo's treasure.

lol,in the night when Dragon returned is not the same day when the Trash Mountain was burned and i don't now why you don't want 100% to accept that Sabo is alive,that was the hole point of Dragon appearing in this flashback and the meeting he had with Sabo in the night of the fire,he has seen his strong determination to be free and in the day when the Tenryuubito come in the kingdom he retuned to take Sabo with him.

[Mugiwara_no_Ice]

@Retsudo:

I'm pretty sure Sakazuki being a logia was proven by how the other 2 Admirals were logias even before he first slipped past a hit.

You know, patterns.

Don't bother. Some people just need to be baby-spoonfed before they understand anything (in an sbs, databook, etc..).

If not people would still argue about mr3 and magellan being logia.

[JERK DISEASE]

I like how we've driven Sammsy crazy with making her account for her crazy theories. She's now an ultra orthodox and highly confused accuracy only jihadist.

[i_am_better_than_u]

Seeing him get shot by some snobby white guy was fucking awesome. I hated those flashbacks, hence I hate Sabo because of his mere existence. Fuck that nigger, fuck his shoddy boat, and good riddance.

[Sammsy]

@JERK:

I like how we've driven Sammsy crazy with making her account for her crazy theories. She's now an ultra orthodox and highly confused accuracy only jihadist.

no i've not changed at all

I have always not stated things as facts until they are proven to be so, this doesn't mean I can't believe that Aikanu was a Logia, or that Sabo is alive. I don't need to be shown proof to believe those thing, but I need proof to state those things as fact.

Stating and telling someone that Sabo is alive is wrong. You can tell someone that you think he is alive, and show why you believe this, but that is it.

My theories are no different. I use as someone said above PATTERNS and past facts to state why i think something will happen. Never do I say what I think as a fact. It's you guys who take my beliefs and say PROVE to me that is true, when i never said it was. And now you guys are saying Sabo is 100% alive without indisputable proof. Its you guys who are the hypocrites.

[Mugiwara_no_Ice]

Robby predicted this and thus it happens, self fulfilling profecy or just karma. You guys from NF make me laugh a little more. Let's enjoy before this ends.

[Zik]

Was that AGOG copy cat banned? or at least banned from this thread?

[Furnace Sparks]

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

Was that AGOG copy cat banned? or at least banned from this thread?

Yeah probably he is. He got banned in the Next crewmate and Shichibukai thread too

[Zik]

@Sammsy:

first how does Aikanu's being a paramecia, logia or even zoan matter at all? his fruit regardles of the class means jack shit story wise. He is super strong regardless what it is classed in, so why the need to class it prematurely and have some more Lucky Roo fastest man in world, and other falacies that are floating around that 90%+ of people seem to believe.

HAHAHAHAHA Now it doesn't matter what DF Akainu has but before you bothered to mention how you believed he was logia but wasn't certain. GTFOOHWTBS

Waiting to say something is fact isn't the same as beliving. You and everyone in the world can all believe that something is true, but stating it as true "officially" before it is, is just wrong.

Not when it's as obvious as what we're talking about.

kind of tired of over half your posts bringing up someones reading comprehension. I clearly stated that i believe that it is sabo, but that doesn't make it fact.

No I'll keep bringing it up because you obviously do not know what's acceptable speculation at this point. You do not understand what you're reading and keep talking out of your ass.

How about you tell me what we beleived last chapter? Hmm dragon left with the rescued trash survivors and then a couple days later sabo is shot. Oh but wait this chapter we learn that dragon didn't leave, he stayed back and only his entire crew left. So what from flashback indicated he was hurt? Nothing. What from flashback last chapter indicated Dragon stayed behind?

So you're admitting you're wrong and was just making up bullshit as if it were even considerable and then you ask me irrelevant questions.

WTF does knowing Dragon stayed behind have to do with anything? PPL were saying Dragon saved Sabo the same chap his ship blew up saying that he came back. You know what indicated Dragon coming back? His concern for what the Goa kingdom was doing to children and the chance that the flashback continued and he became involved with the world noble.

But answer the question instead asking irrelevant ones.

I said in another post that we were also hinted at missing treasure. What happened to it? Was it burned in fire? or did Bluejam steal it. And if he is alive he would be severely injured and then he could have been one Dragon brought back. It could have been any other random person missed in fire.

What does this have to do with anything?

So i bring up again, what did this flashback do to indicate that Dragon stayed behind without his crew? If last week I would have said that when we saw all the revolutionaries had left that dragon stayed behind and then saved Sabo, that would have been baseless speculation. But looked what happened.

I already answered this. Why keep bringing up irrelevant questions to go off topic and not answer any of the questions I ask?

You have no basis for your speculation and you know it. Nothing at all indicated or implied something as specific that Dragon was hurt. Regardless of that if you understood the conversation you would know Dragon wasn't going to bring any first aid for himself or the trash mt. ppl and that he had brought a person with serious injuries to the ship the same day Sabo was attacked.

no i can only assume that, i can speculate whatever the fuck i want to speculate

So you admit you're a dumbass due to your lack of reading comprehension.

My theories are no different. I use as someone said above PATTERNS and past facts

LIES. Where's the patterns and past facts supporting Dragon being hurt?

[Sammsy]

not going to respond to that, for a simple reason

when i read peoples posts i find myself plenty of times going "ah i see, good point, i see your point, ok, ect."

when i read your posts i am always stuck thinking "what the fuck are you talking about, that makes no sense, i never said that, ect."

so why bother. Anything i say you forget a post later and i find myself repeating same stuff over and over.

Its all basically this. You guys are calling me and others noobs for leaving the possibility that it wasn't Sabo a possibility.

Spin my words however you want, but thats all it comes down to. I am leaving the possibility of him being dead until i see as you guys said for saying he is alive, "no body, no dead" "no body, not alive" And now i'm the noob that doesn't have reading comprehension for leaving an option open. has nothing to do with reading comprehension. My reading comprehension tells me he is alive, i have never disputed that. But in the same sense my intelligence lets me leave the option for it be a trick by oda and not be sabo an option.

Don't know why you guys are so proud of being close minded and shutting out all possibilities.

[Zik]

@Sammsy:

not going to respond to that, for a simple reason

when i read peoples posts i find myself plenty of times going "ah i see, good point, i see your point, ok, ect."

when i read your posts i am always stuck thinking "what the fuck are you talking about, that makes no sense, i never said that, ect."

so why bother. Anything i say you forget a post later and i find myself repeating same stuff over and over.

Its all basically this. You guys are calling me and others noobs for leaving the possibility that it wasn't Sabo a possibility.

Spin my words however you want, but thats all it comes down to. I am leaving the possibility of him being dead until i see as you guys said for saying he is alive, "no body, no dead" "no body, not alive" And now i'm the noob that doesn't have reading comprehension for leaving an option open. has nothing to do with reading comprehension. My reading comprehension tells me he is alive, i have never disputed that. But in the same sense my intelligence lets me leave the option for it be a trick by oda and not be sabo an option.

Hurt from what? What could Dragon be hurt from? What in the flashback indicated Dragon might be hurt? Baseless speculation is not a foundation to assume the opposite of the obvious.

Where's the patterns and past facts supporting Dragon being hurt?

Answer the questions instead of asking irrelevant ones.

As for it being mt. trash survivors, that just shows me you didn't understand the context of the conversation and haven't read what Aohige has repeated a dozen times in the chap thread. Maybe there should be a disclaimer so all the dopes who lack reading comprehension or aren't familiar with the English language can grasp the huge hint.

Don't know why you guys are so proud of being close minded and shutting out all possibilities.

Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's probable dumbass.

[Retsudo]

Sammsy what kind of author do you think Oda is.

[JERK DISEASE]

Sammsy secretly wants a legitimate for-serious romance between Hancock and Luffy.

[Sammsy]

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

Hurt from what? What could Dragon be hurt from? What in the flashback indicated Dragon might be hurt? Baseless speculation is not a foundation to assume the opposite of the obvious.

Where's the patterns and past facts supporting Dragon being hurt?

Answer the questions instead of asking irrelevant ones.

As for it being mt. trash survivors, that just shows me you didn't understand the context of the conversation and haven't read what Aohige has repeated a dozen times in the chap thread. Maybe there should be a disclaimer so all the dopes who lack reading comprehension or aren't familiar with the English language can grasp the huge hint.
Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's probable dumbass.

where did i ever say dragon was hurt? it was one of the many possibilities i threw out there. i don't believe it at all cause he didn't look hurt in next panal.

Aohige has said many times that they wouldn't be like OMG a guy we have had on our ship for a couple days has huge wounds. Says nothing about Dragon brining any NEW fire survivors he found. If i recall correctly Ace came back carrying Dadan AFTER Sabo was shot down. They were still alive in the fire those 2 days later. Could be someone else survived, could be someone that also took the world nobles wrath while he was there, could be bluejam survivied.

We don't know for fact who needed tending to. if all signs and hopes point to one thing, that makes it the easiest thing in the world then to dupe us all with a twist. We all want Sabo to live, all signs point to him possibly surviving and thus our hopes make it seem concrete.

your asking me to answer relevent questions and you are just asking me to prove just one out of the many random possibles i threw out there. The one that makes most sense would be blue jam surviving and stealing treasure. The treasure is gone/missing. Blue jam got its location correct? Ace/Dadan came back AFTER sabo was hit, so if Blue jam survived he would be on deaths door same time as sabo. Dragon and Iva and them might not have a clue who he is and thus take him as just a lucky survivor back and treat him. Is this a stretch, yes, but it also could fit and work. Do i believe this, no, i believe it was sabo.

But my main point is, we have all our hopes on Sabo living, thus any clue to him being alive extrapolates that hope to make up blind to any other outcome and leads to the future "OMG amazing plot twist by Oda, never saw it coming wow, ect" Its a common author trick. Knowing what readers want or expect and have all things appear or hint towards that being true and then it being something else entirely.

[Zik]

@Sammsy:

where did i ever say dragon was hurt? it was one of the many possibilities i threw out there.

It's not a possibility though, AT ALL. Aohige's reiterated that several times already. If you understood the conversation or what Aohige said you'd know why it isn't.

Aohige has said many times that they wouldn't be like OMG a guy we have had on our ship for a couple days has huge wounds. Says nothing about Dragon brining any NEW fire survivors he found.

That's cuz Sabo isn't a survivor of that. He wasn't even there and in fact the conversation outright says someone new was brought to the ship, nothing about survivors.

If i recall correctly Ace came back carrying Dadan AFTER Sabo was shot down. They were still alive in the fire those 2 days later.

Irrelevant.

Could be someone else survived, could be someone that also took the world nobles wrath while he was there, could be bluejam survivied.

What the hell are you saying? Dragon saved Bluejam?

We don't know for fact who needed tending to.

We do know that it was the same day Sabo was attacked and that it was Dragon that had brought them.

The possibility of Dragon going back to trash mt. after the fire was already gone two days later to save anyone who might have survived isn't even worth considering.

The one that makes most sense would be blue jam surviving and stealing treasure. The treasure is gone/missing. Blue jam got its location correct? Ace/Dadan came back AFTER sabo was hit, so if Blue jam survived he would be on deaths door same time as sabo. Dragon and Iva and them might not have a clue who he is and thus take him as just a lucky survivor back and treat him. Is this a stretch, yes, but it also could fit and work.

All of this is irrelevant and has nothing to do with what I asked and it's laughable.

I asked who or what hurt Dragon since you threw this "possibility" which isn't a possibility out there.

Knowing what readers want or expect and have all things appear or hint towards that being true and then it being something else entirely.

So you're supporting the red herring that isn't a red herring idea too?

LAWLS.

[JERK DISEASE]

@Sammsy:

where did i ever say dragon was hurt? it was one of the many possibilities i threw out there. i don't believe it at all cause he didn't look hurt in next panal.

Aohige has said many times that they wouldn't be like OMG a guy we have had on our ship for a couple days has huge wounds. Says nothing about Dragon brining any NEW fire survivors he found.

No that's exactly what he said.

If i recall correctly Ace came back carrying Dadan AFTER Sabo was shot down. They were still alive in the fire those 2 days later. Could be someone else survived, could be someone that also took the world nobles wrath while he was there, could be bluejam survivied.

Could be none of those things have any grounding whatsoever. Oda isn't pulling a pointless feint.

We don't know for fact who needed tending to. if all signs and hopes point to one thing, that makes it the easiest thing in the world then to dupe us all with a twist. We all want Sabo to live, all signs point to him possibly surviving and thus our hopes make it seem concrete.

Deicide's already being a coward about answering this, but there is no reason on earth for Oda to randomly dupe us on this. Give a reason.

your asking me to answer relevent questions and you are just asking me to prove just one out of the many random possibles i threw out there. The one that makes most sense would be blue jam surviving and stealing treasure.

That doesn't make ANY sense, why the fuck would a character Oda gave zero development to aside from being a witless bad guy pawn, particularly a collaboratinist in a noble run massacre of poor people, be sought after by Dragon. That's retarded.

Dragon and Iva and them might not have a clue who he is and thus take him as just a lucky survivor back and treat him. Is this a stretch, yes, but it also could fit and work. Do i believe this, no, i believe it was sabo.

No it does niether of those things.
Shit needs to do more then be physically possible it needs to make story and common sense.

But my main point is, we have all our hopes on Sabo living, thus any clue to him being alive extrapolates that hope to make up blind to any other outcome and leads to the future "OMG amazing plot twist by Oda, never saw it coming wow, ect"

Oda has no fucking reason to pull this on us.
There is nothing he's covering for here.

Its a common author trick.

No! No it fucking isn't!
Authors don't trick the audience for no reason!

Knowing what readers want or expect and have all things appear or hint towards that being true and then it being something else entirely.

Why would he do that here! Red herrings have purpose! What the hell is this!

[Airflow]

Sammsy, Deicide. Explain why Oda would want to kill off Sabo now.

Any purpose his death would bring has already been fufilled and Oda has repeatedly shown an incredible relucance to kill people off, particularly unceremoniously. Unless you think Oda likes to arbitarily troll his readers there really would be no purpose to this not being Sabo.

[JERK DISEASE]

As it stands yes, that's exactly what Sammsy and Deicide are suggesting.

That Oda is simply fucking with us.

When CP9 was revealed to be Lucci and company it had dramatic purpose and sense. To show the extent of the World Government's dedication and espionage. It also set up an interesting relationship to the antagonists in that arc, making them more then just thugs (which made the three we met in EL much less interesting).
There were hints ahead of time as well, chiefly small things, and once revealed it made sense. It made sense even before that as well.
In fact I actually called Califa on being a spy (though I didn't think she was one of the attackers) before it was revealed. Though of course Lucci, Kaku, and Blueno (who I had forgotten about) still shocked. We accepted it because it made sense.

Who the bloody fuck would accept "oh lol oda, ya got me, it was Bluejam/a random person we never saw in the flashback all along!" it would be enraging and make no sense.
And the suggestion that Dragon himself was wounded makes even less sense since how would that even be a plot twist? How would Oda even show us he had duped us aside from Sabo never showing up again? Then we wouldn't even know what the fuck had happened.

[Robby]

To be fair, early on there was some actual legitimate discussion on Akainu's logia status, due simply to the question of "How the hell is Luffy ever supposed to hit and beat that guy", especially since he had just fought Magellan and had problems with that very issue.

Plus, he was producing vast ammount of material from his arms, similar to Magellan and Mr. 3. And on top of that, Oda did not show him being hit for a while, even though Kizaru and Aokiji were getting the logia break apart frequently.

It could have been a play on expectations, since it was mostly his admiral status making it likely he was a logia, rather than anything he actually displayed or did, prior to taking a hit. Everyone assumed he was a logia, due to the admiral status, but it wasn't a fact to be taken entirely for granted until it was shown, and there was some active debate on it, with several people going 90% logia, 10% possibility of fake out and hes a paremcia..

And then a bunch of other guys hit him despite his lava default, so its okay, the main concern of "how will Luffy ever hit the guy without burning his hands off" was answered.