General 'Haki' Discussion

[vagabond87]

@Sereques:

It doesn't matter what we are discussing, the fact that you big up Anime and discredit CCC translations in the same post is…..........

I wrote that additionally to other arguments- way of how both moves are executed, way that name is affecting most of times how attack looks or works in contradiction to simplyfying it by making that attack purely whip slap so to say and backing it up with translation. I dont expect as much fire as when it comes to Red Hawk itself but some of it and/or string heaten up close to burning point would not suprise me.

You really dont get my point?

For anime - they might get plenty wrong but if they picture Overheat as heated up/burning in last phase attack - I would not be suprised at all.
And yes I would take how attack will be animated/shown in anime over CCC translation purely of name of an attack.

This is really very basic thing for an anime team and I do think they consult Oda at some occasions asking for colours and ways of picturing some outstanding scenes- Sanji vs Doflamingo surely is one of those.
While they had a lot of freedom in elongating some fights and missing out/changing some details like Sanji spinning to go into DJ or Luffy going more often into G2 they sure do animate quite a lot things properly.
Its bad to COMPLETELY discredit anime team because quality-pacing wise especially and with some fights being elongated too much- isnt as good as it was some years ago.
Also "…......." - man up and write directly what you think. Bold font and ..... wont do talking for you or doesnt hold much value as reply material.

Using CCC translation without context in chapter itself doesnt mean auto-win in discussion, ignoring all other arguments other person gave. Or do you want to say its other way around and that it is auto win for you?

@Sereques:

Just so you know, Brook's ice attacks is because of his DF. Before you comeback with a thesis, read the two pages preceding that page that you post. Brook clearly explain what he learned from Yomi Yomi No Mi.

Sure its more convenient to pull ice into Brooks DF basket than admiting that I pointed something different lol that might add up perfectly with Sanjis fire now, Zoros Ashura and maybe even McGuy electricity imbued blade.
Also great move to try and mix things up and indirectly point at me not reading properly before posting.

Brooks exact words are about imbuing his sword with his own souls energy.

Or do you mean by that ? Where Brook says stuff about his fruit affecting his affecting other people ?

Next page after Brook uses soul solid and gives explanation we have Daruma becoming firebal out of air. Coincidence and nothing related in your opinion? Really?
You are mixing here up explanation that Brook have on his Devil Fruit with explanation for ice imbued attack imo. Also there is a fact that Brook is only one out of Strawhats DF users that didnt gave DF related name to any attack since he was shown for the first, never.

Or honestly whatever- think what you want, if I didnt at least make you think or understand at least part of my points till now then this leads to nowhere.
Anybody who reads posts of both of us and Shadowgreeds can make up his mind on his own, same like you and I already did.

So I dont see point to this exchange anymore. Its getting boring and loosing any purpose.

[Sereques]

@vagabond87:

And yes I would take how attack will be animated/shown in anime over CCC translation purely of name of an attack.

I'm going to make that statement my siggy. It's such a joy reading from you.

[RamistaR]

Don't fight for Brook guys! Let's discuss about Viola's CoA.

[vagabond87]

@Sereques:

I'm going to make that statement my siggy. It's such a joy reading from you.

Lol I feel honored

Taking stuff out of context of whole posts. So high of you.

Also you are basing your whole way of thinking on pun-like names of attacks, ignoring all possibilities.
If Oda intends Overheat to be pictured as fire/heat boosted attack it surely will be one of those. With incomming fight between Doflamingo and Luffy we might get
another showings of Overheat from Mingo.

[Portgas-D-Ace 3]

Wait, didn't Luffy say that among the SHs only the monster trio had haki?

[vagabond87]

@Portgas-D-Ace:

Wait, didn't Luffy say that among the SHs only the monster trio had haki?

He pointed to Sanji and Zoro having haki so- CoO and surely CoA. Brook might have CoO as well for example but its far from being confirmed now.
There is high possibility of Brook being able to hear voices etc. Also as I wrote in some posts his freezing might be form of haki utilization or spirit related power.
Franky with his body and all inventions rather doesnt seem to need haki but of course it would be presumably very big boost to how strong he already is. Lately Machvise praised him on speed as it seemed he is avoiding all of Machs attacks.

[Shadowgreed]

Nigaaa (Kevin Hart voice)

@vagabond87:

As soon as you attack person directly and not his/ her argumentation you lost whole argument.

That's not what my lawyer said!!!

Also calling somebody on looking stupid is most of time because you yourself might have felt that way so as its defense mechanism I dont mind.
With Brook you picked very confident(for your) line while I posted page when he himself says that he is imbuing his attacks with his soul power- thus make blade freezing anything it touches so I am named some kind of stupid and your page for you holds more value somehow. Brooks quote you used is not even comparable to explanation by Brook that I shown.

Complicating things with a lot of text as you say is backing up your statements with argumentation. Now I surely do wonder if that concept is lost to you or something. Next time you will think twice before pointing at me with irony as it might bite you yourself same as here.

Dude If you stop think about Haki and spirits, you'll realize that Brook explain his own ability on that single quote, he drags the freezing hell to his body, he uses his sword as a medium in order to attack with ice, is like he goes back and forth to the underworld, but nooo you're so fixated on Haki and spirits that you attributed it to every little thing there's is.

Some posts before I added some pages with Sanji usage of CoO since time skip because I wanted to share what I observed in manga as this thread is here for that- General Haki Discussion - and to slightly change direction of discussion as it seems that even with all points and finally with Brook explaining a bit of spirit/ soul relation of ice attacks some people didnt wanted to understand stuff. So I dont know how pointing out Sanjis poor showing(in your opinion) adds up to what I posted about CoO usage.

I that most people post here to share thoughts and get better understanding of some stuff that happened or is happening in manga.

the only reason I mentioned Sanji was because you came with all that Sanji > Apo gag

Brook is a spirit himself!

[vagabond87]

@Shadowgreed:

Nigaaa (Kevin Hart voice)

That's not what my lawyer said!!!

Dude If you stop think about Haki and spirits, you'll realize that Brook explain his own ability on that single quote, he drags the freezing hell to his body, he uses his sword as a medium in order to attack with ice, is like he goes back and forth to the underworld, but nooo you're so fixated on Haki and spirits that you attributed it to every little thing there's is.

the only reason I mentioned Sanji was because you came with all that Sanji > Apo gag

Brook is a spirit himself!

Lol at lawyer thing…

I wasnt stating Sanji > Apo but Sanjis CoO > Apoos CoO

Your explanation over Brook draging cold from underworld and using it against enemy using sword as medium is one of weirdest I seen on AP forums till date. Makes far less sense than mine assumption(at least from my point of view)

Use bigger letters and thicker font

You must have great fun overal here as I see.

Time will tell who was closer to how it wes meant to work in manga. Now discussion is like too long match of ping pong- boring from one side to other side and I have to explain everything in detail yet its not understood at all. You assumed its Brooks DF power, I taken it as Brook said it - by his spiritual power imbuing sword with cold while for example Kinemon does same boosting his swords with power of his spirit but with difference of him getting fire instead of ice.

Im outta here..

[Shadowgreed]

@vagabond87:

Lol at lawyer thing…

I wasnt stating Sanji > Apo but Sanjis CoO > Apoos CoO

Your explanation over Brook draging cold from underworld and using it against enemy using sword as medium is one of weirdest I seen on AP forums till date. Makes far less sense than mine assumption(at least from my point of view)

Use bigger letters and thicker font

You must have great fun overal here as I see.

Time will tell who was closer to how it wes meant to work in manga. Now discussion is like too long match of ping pong- boring from one side to other side and I have to explain everything in detail yet its not understood at all. You assumed its Brooks DF power, I taken it as Brook said it - by his spiritual power imbuing sword with cold while for example Kinemon does same boosting his swords with power of his spirit but with difference of him getting fire instead of ice.

Im outta here..

Yeah, he's some kind alright, to tell you the truth this is not boring for me at all, I'm having tons of fun, but do this, go to the question thread and ask how brook's power works, so you can have a little more sense place in you, you need it.

[Portgas-D-Ace 3]

@vagabond87:

He pointed to Sanji and Zoro having haki so- CoO and surely CoA. Brook might have CoO as well for example but its far from being confirmed now.
There is high possibility of Brook being able to hear voices etc. Also as I wrote in some posts his freezing might be form of haki utilization or spirit related power.
Franky with his body and all inventions rather doesnt seem to need haki but of course it would be presumably very big boost to how strong he already is. Lately Machvise praised him on speed as it seemed he is avoiding all of Machs attacks.

But Luffy didn't mention Brook's name so it's pretty much confirmed that right now he doesn't possess any form of haki, and thus is unable to make haki based attacks. He may acquire it later though, but if we follow the principle of Okama's very hairy Razor, Brook's soul power seems to simply stem from the manipulation of his soul, right?

EDIT: On second thoughts, I'm sure Law was referring to CoA only so Brook may be able show some form of CoO, who knows.

[King Cannon]

@vagabond87:

Lol at lawyer thing…

I wasnt stating Sanji > Apo but Sanjis CoO > Apoos CoO

Your explanation over Brook draging cold from underworld and using it against enemy using sword as medium is one of weirdest I seen on AP forums till date. Makes far less sense than mine assumption(at least from my point of view)

Use bigger letters and thicker font

You must have great fun overal here as I see.

Time will tell who was closer to how it wes meant to work in manga. Now discussion is like too long match of ping pong- boring from one side to other side and I have to explain everything in detail yet its not understood at all. You assumed its Brooks DF power, I taken it as Brook said it - by his spiritual power imbuing sword with cold while for example Kinemon does same boosting his swords with power of his spirit but with difference of him getting fire instead of ice.

Im outta here..

Brook's ice is NOT Haki. He's weaponizing this. It's a soul-related ability, like his astral projection.

And Luffy already confirmed that Brook doesn't have Haki yet.

Honestly, you call other arguments weird even though you're the one who is causing all this confusion.

@Portgas-D-Ace:

But Luffy didn't mention Brook's name so it's pretty much confirmed that right now he doesn't possess any form of haki, and thus is unable to make haki based attacks. He may acquire it later though, but if we follow the principle of Okama's very hairy Razor, Brook's soul power seems to simply stem from the manipulation of his soul, right?

EDIT: On second thoughts, I'm sure Law was referring to CoA only so Brook may be able show some form of CoO, who knows.

Nope. Oda confirmed it in a SBS. No Haki for anybody but the Monster Trio.

[RamistaR]

Yeah let's talk about Viola using Haki !

The name of her attack means "iron tear"… What do you think?

[King Cannon]

@RamistaR:

Yeah let's talk about Viola using Haki !

The name of her attack means "iron tear"… What do you think?

Yeah, according to the anime, the tears are heated up and then become made of metal.

Makes sense.

[Shadowgreed]

^ Haki/spirits must be giving it that effect

[King Cannon]

Next: Haki Heat Vision that allows her to summon a fire elemental.

A fire elemental made of metal, of course.

That also came from the underworld because Viola should be able to see dead people with her ability.

[vagabond87]

@King:

Brook's ice is NOT Haki. He's weaponizing this. It's a soul-related ability, like his astral projection.

And Luffy already confirmed that Brook doesn't have Haki yet.

Honestly, you call other arguments weird even though you're the one who is causing all this confusion.

I wrote about Brooks power being imbuing soul - related power to his sword. I didnt wrote "it must be haki" but I called on it being as Brook said spirit related power, with chances of it being some form of haki utliziation.
Astral projections are one thing, this seems to be related to something else.

If Sanji or Kinemon would not be seen using fire I would not seek second depth to Brooks soul solid thing that is imbuing his sword with ice/freezing power.
Wano should be full of swordsmen and we will surely get more on Kinemons abilities if not till Wano arc then surely during it.

I cant believe how dense some discussions can get here at times, never thought that concept that I tried to explain would be considered such SF confusing thing in shonen such as One Piece where most stuff has clear explanations sooner or later. For a change I also took Brooks word as play with words considering freezing ability.

Somebody tells me that its DF powers use- freezing and ice? Its more of a strain than assuming some people adding fire/ice/electricity to their attacks or doing things like Zoros Ashura by projecting spirit/ imbuing weapons with it as Brook said. Taking some freedome and trying to add things to each other before its super clearly stated now seems like crime here.
For fucks sake…

[Portgas-D-Ace 3]

@King:

Brook's ice is NOT Haki. He's weaponizing this. It's a soul-related ability, like his astral projection.

And Luffy already confirmed that Brook doesn't have Haki yet.

Honestly, you call other arguments weird even though you're the one who is causing all this confusion.

Nope. Oda confirmed it in a SBS. No Haki for anybody but the Monster Trio.

Oh thanks, KC. Well, that should settle it I guess.

[King Cannon]

@vagabond87:

I wrote about Brooks power being imbuing soul - related power to his sword. I didnt wrote "it must be haki" but I called on it being as Brook said spirit related power, with chances of it being some form of haki utliziation.
Astral projections are one thing, this seems to be related to something else.

If Sanji or Kinemon would not be seen using fire I would not seek second depth to Brooks soul solid thing that is imbuing his sword with ice/freezing power.
Wano should be full of swordsmen and we will surely get more on Kinemons abilities if not till Wano arc then surely during it.

I cant believe how dense some discussions can get here at times, never thought that concept that I tried to explain would be considered such SF confusing thing in shonen such as One Piece where most stuff has clear explanations sooner or later. For a change I also took Brooks word as play with words considering freezing ability.

Somebody tells me that its DF powers use- freezing and ice? Its more of a strain than assuming some people adding fire/ice/electricity to their attacks or doing things like Zoros Ashura by projecting spirit/ imbuing weapons with it as Brook said. Taking some freedome and trying to add things to each other before its super clearly stated now seems like crime here.
For fucks sake…

Anyway, I already posted a link to a SBS that confirms that only the Monster Trio have Haki.

Also, how is astral projections and ghostly chills not related? They're both related to the idea of souls. There's a clear theme there, but you're denying it for no good reason at all.

[Shadowgreed]

@King:

Next: Haki Heat Vision that allows her to summon a fire elemental.

A fire elemental made of metal, of course.

That also came from the underworld because Viola should be able to see dead people with her ability.

At least we're starting to understand the thematic and applications of Haki

[vagabond87]

@King:

Yeah, according to the anime, the tears are heated up and then become made of metal.

Makes sense.

If you keep closer eye for detail in anime they did same effect on Vergo when he was hardening his body or weapon. Blink of an red/diable jabe like coating and then CoA hardening shows up.

at 1:28 its clearly visible to be same as what Violet shown during todays anime episode.

Life relase techniques seems to be able to control stuff like hair size/ body parts size etc so it might be variation of it with her tears, additionally to pun in name of that attack.

@King:

Anyway, I already posted a link to a SBS that confirms that only the Monster Trio have Haki.

Also, how is astral projections and ghostly chills not related? They're both related to the idea of souls. There's a clear theme there, but you're denying it for no good reason at all.

I am not denying theme of souls but I dont put together Brooks devil fruit ability and freezing power of his sword.

[Portgas-D-Ace 3]

@vagabond87:

Taking some freedome and trying to add things to each other before its super clearly stated now seems like crime here.
For fucks sake…

I know it's hard to admit when one's wrong (believe I know) but playing the victim card will not gain you sympathy from anyone here. I usually swallow my pride and thank the person correcting me. I know, crazy right?

[RamistaR]

Don't worry Vagabond. Some of us like you for your crazy (and not always wrong) theories.

[vagabond87]

@Portgas-D-Ace:

I know it's hard to admit when one's wrong (believe I know) but playing the victim card will not gain you sympathy from anyone here. I usually swallow my pride and thank the person correcting me. I know, crazy right?

I dont play a victim. Simply most people dont agree with me and instead of taking into account possibilities jokes are something easier. If I would care for sympathy I would not prolong this until I clearly state what I wanted- you seem to care a lot about it by pointing it at me.

If you swallow up your pride and dont stand your ground in cases you still believe you are closer to truth then somebody else you are not having strong opinions. I am not convinced by Brook freezing being related to his devil fruit so I should thank someone or what? I dont get what correction do you mean here, really.

Making fun instead of taking into account possibilities. Outside of forums people with not very high self esteem or not many overall life achievements also gather in groups and laugh at unpopular ideas and ways of thinking instead of trying to understand some other point of views. Sometimes its just to kill time by people who dont really care about who wrote what and are here for lulz so to say. Those jokes are testament to what some member(s) represent themselves as people outside of forums. Yes, smelled the blood and you joining in Portogas-D-Ace?
You are super funny King Connan(SBS thing I get and remember- it does not affect possibility of spirit-element thing being additional element of fights in One Piece as we have more and more of them) and especially you Shadowgreed. Really, bravo.

My mistake I let that drag so long as it seems to be food for some people.

@RamistaR:

Don't worry Vagabond. Some of us like you for your crazy (and not always wrong) theories.

That people is member who can be called a light in dark tunnel of Arlong Park forums

[King Cannon]

@vagabond87:

I am not denying theme of souls but I dont put together Brooks devil fruit ability and freezing power of his sword.

Soul manipulation.

• Brook stated that he can move people's souls with his music (this is the basis of his music-related techniques which influence people's emotions).
• Brook can manipulate his soul to leave his physical body.
• Coldness is believed to be a common side-effect of the manifestation of souls. Brook simply manipulates this aspect of the soul.

[Portgas-D-Ace 3]

@vagabond87:

I dont play a victim. Simply most people dont agree with me and instead of taking into account possibilities jokes are something easier. If I would care for sympathy I would not prolong this until I clearly state what I wanted- you seem to care a lot about it by pointing it at me.

If you swallow up your pride and dont stand your ground in cases you still believe you are closer to truth then somebody else you are not having strong opinions. I am not convinced by Brook freezing being related to his devil fruit so I should thank someone or what? I dont get what correction do you mean here, really.

Making fun instead of taking into account possibilities. Outside of forums people with not very high self esteem or not many overall life achievements also gather in groups and laugh at unpopular ideas and ways of thinking instead of trying to understand some other point of views. Those jokes are testament to what some member(s) represent themselves as people outside of forums.
You are super funny King Connan and especially you Shadowgreed. Really, bravo.

My mistake I let that drag so long as it seems to be food for some people.

But your assertion that Brook's freezing ability has haki overtones was already disproved by Oda himself. What's the point of having a strong opinion if it's a wrong one?

EDIT:
@vagabond87:

Yes, smelled the blood and you joining in Portogas-D-Ace?

Playing the victim again I see.

[Shadowgreed]

@vagabond87:

Making fun instead of taking into account possibilities. Outside of forums people with not very high self esteem or not many overall life achievements also gather in groups and laugh at unpopular ideas and ways of thinking instead of trying to understand some other point of views. Sometimes its just to kill time by people who dont really care about who wrote what and are here for lulz so to say. Those jokes are testament to what some member(s) represent themselves as people outside of forums. Yes, smelled the blood and you joining in Portogas-D-Ace?
You are super funny King Connan and especially you Shadowgreed. Really, bravo.

Well this escalated, not quickly but it did, I don't know If this paragraph is about us (The ones that were/are discussing that Spirit/haki thing), but my self esteem is pretty high, I'm working on what I love, I'm building my own company and I'm only 22, so yeah, your statement doesn't apply to me at all.

[vagabond87]

@King:

Soul manipulation.

• Brook stated that he can move people's souls with his music (this is the basis of his music-related techniques which influence people's emotions).
• Brook can manipulate his soul to leave his physical body.
• Coldness is believed to be a common side-effect of the manifestation of souls. Brook simply manipulates this aspect of the soul.

And what manipulates Daruma? Or Kinemon around his swords? Or Sanji with Hell Memories and new Diable Jambe that fires up without movement?
Maybe Brooks ability - ice - freezing theme- all fit together with his sould being directed into sword as freezing. While Zoros Ashura is manifestation of Zoros spirit energy and Sanjis flames are his soul presenting itself in form of fire of some sorts.
Why is that so SF concept? This not being haki to add.

[King Cannon]

@vagabond87:

I dont play a victim. Simply most people dont agree with me and instead of taking into account possibilities jokes are something easier. If I would care for sympathy I would not prolong this until I clearly state what I wanted- you seem to care a lot about it by pointing it at me.

If you swallow up your pride and dont stand your ground in cases you still believe you are closer to truth then somebody else you are not having strong opinions. I am not convinced by Brook freezing being related to his devil fruit so I should thank someone or what? I dont get what correction do you mean here, really.

Making fun instead of taking into account possibilities. Outside of forums people with not very high self esteem or not many overall life achievements also gather in groups and laugh at unpopular ideas and ways of thinking instead of trying to understand some other point of views. Sometimes its just to kill time by people who dont really care about who wrote what and are here for lulz so to say. Those jokes are testament to what some member(s) represent themselves as people outside of forums. Yes, smelled the blood and you joining in Portogas-D-Ace?
You are super funny King Connan(SBS thing I get and remember- it does not affect possibility of spirit-element thing being additional element of fights in One Piece as we have more and more of them) and especially you Shadowgreed. Really, bravo.

My mistake I let that drag so long as it seems to be food for some people.

That people is member who can be called a light in dark tunnel of Arlong Park forums

Now you're starting to rely on insults.

Please, stop doing that.

@vagabond87:

And what manipulates Daruma? Or Kinemon around his swords? Or Sanji with Hell Memories and new Diable Jambe that fires up without movement?
Maybe Brooks ability - ice - freezing theme- all fit together with his sould being directed into sword as freezing. While Zoros Ashura is manifestation of Zoros spirit energy and Sanjis flames are his soul presenting itself in form of fire of some sorts.
Why is that so SF concept? This not being haki to add.

What Daruma does has nothing to do with Brook. They're completely unrelated characters.

Kin'emon, Sanji and Daruma might have the same idea behind their fire, but Brook's ice is something completely different.

[vagabond87]

@Portgas-D-Ace:

But your assertion that Brook's freezing ability has haki overtones was already disproved by Oda himself. What's the point of having a strong opinion if it's a wrong one?

I didnt wrote that Brooks freezing=haki. Read posts once again. If you wanna join up then maybe I didnt expressed myself clearly like 20 times already. I dunno.

@Shadowgreed:

Well this escalated, not quickly but it did, I don't know If this paragraph is about us (The ones that were/are discussing that Spirit/haki thing), but my self esteem is pretty high, I'm working on what I love, I'm building my own company and I'm only 22, so yeah, your statement doesn't apply to me at all.

Then why you have to act like a douche here? After all was kind of said, starting to make jokes? Do you have good reason? Do you feel like its worth of feeding on up when somebody tries to explain new take/ theory/ concept? Cant you save jokes for yourselve? And if you are wrong and it will be on my side in the end then you will be guy that laughed at someone being right. I discussed with you for quite a time, you start making jokes.

I am 27 and I work in my own real estate agency since not long yet I dont joke at somebodys way of thinking if he backs it up with some points- whatever those points are, I didnt do that even once. I get frustrated at some absolutely closed minds when some hints point towards different outcomes than most of people expect.

[King Cannon]

Why are you guys bringing real-life achievements into this?

The last thing this place needs is a "I'm better than you irl" contest.

[vagabond87]

@King:

What Daruma does has nothing to do with Brook. They're completely unrelated characters.

Kin'emon, Sanji and Daruma might have the same idea behind their fire, but Brook's ice is something completely different.

Daruma was shown page after soul solid from Brook, he went into "fire" mode right after it.

Also you cant prove for now that those two things are completely unrelated. There was no explanation on fire from Kinemon, Sanji or Daruma and it surely will come up sooner or later.
For now its your personal choice to disagree with me but you back up your take with Brooks theme and Devil Fruit being explanation. I dont agree.
Sure Brooks DF can get different uses but its spreading it to wide in my opinion. Its closer to theme-related power being explained to spirit related thing like Zoros Ashura. Zoro being said to have beats like spirit and showing moves that for example bend air when executed or cut up enemies with only projection of his swords.

@King:

Why are you guys bringing real-life achievements into this?

The last thing this place needs is a "I'm better than you irl" contest.

Its not about being better or worse but about that I dont joke over people here no matter who they are or I am. I expect same from others.
I might be wrong but with all explanations I gave on my take its idiotic to laugh at fair number of points I made.

[Portgas-D-Ace 3]

@vagabond87:

I didnt wrote that Brooks freezing=haki. Read posts once again. If you wanna join up then maybe I didnt expressed myself clearly like 20 times already. I dunno.

@vagabond87:

Brook himself speaks about his imbuing attacks with his soul-related energy.
Either it is haki or more probably what Brook says- persons soul/spirit energy is up to question for now.

Which was the only thing with which I took issue.

[King Cannon]

@vagabond87:

Daruma was shown page after soul solid from Brook, he went into "fire" mode right after it.

Also you cant prove for now that those two things are completely unrelated. There was no explanation on fire from Kinemon, Sanji or Daruma and it surely will come up sooner or later.
For now its your personal choice to disagree with me but you back up your take with Brooks theme and Devil Fruit being explanation. I dont agree.
Sure Brooks DF can get different uses but its spreading it to wide in my opinion.

What does not aging, turning people into toys and memories being erased have in common?

What does shadows and necromancy have in common?

What does seeing through things, reading minds and whale tears have in common?

What does cutting people into pieces and electrical shocks have in common?

Those seemingly unrelated abilities all go back to a certain idea. It's the same thing with Brook's DF. Astral projections and coldness all go back to the idea of souls.

[vagabond87]

@Portgas-D-Ace:

Which was the only thing with which I took issue.

Then look up a latter and earlier posts.
I taken into account possibility and pointed at what it is MORE PROBABLY.

I didnt stated that Brooks freezing=haki. You proven what I wrote about not stating Brooks power to be haki with that quote of my own post.

@King:

What does not aging, turning people into toys and memories being erased have in common?

What does shadows and necromancy have in common?

What does seeing through things, reading minds and whale tears have in common?

What does cutting people into pieces and electrical shocks have in common?

Those seemingly unrelated abilities all go back to a certain idea. It's the same thing with Brook's DF. Astral projections and coldness all go back to the idea of souls.

Same themes and set of powers related to them according to it?

How does Kinemons foxfire nickname and fire abilities add up with his Devil Fruit power?
Explain it to me then if all examples you pointed add up in your opinion then what would you say about other one out of more recent DF users and his set of abilities?

[Shadowgreed]

@vagabond87:

Then why you have to act like a douche here? After all was kind of said, starting to make jokes? Do you have good reason? Do you feel like its worth of feeding on up when somebody tries to explain new take/ theory/ concept? Cant you save jokes for yourselve? And if you are wrong and it will be on my side in the end then you will be guy that laughed at someone being right. I discussed with you for quite a time, you start making jokes.

I am 27 and I work in my own real estate agency since not long yet I dont joke at somebodys way of thinking if he backs it up with some points- whatever those points are, I didnt do that even once. I get frustrated at some absolutely closed minds when some hints point towards different outcomes than most of people expect.

Acting like a douche? I tried my best at explaining things to you, but you keep yourself in your own bubble and now King Cannon is doing the same thing and I'm pretty sure he'll end up with the same conclusion as I did, just like Sereques. Don't keep things to yourself, that's bad for your health and If your right, you'r right, but If you wrong, you're wrong.

Ahhhh I'm close minded now, this is getting even funnier now!!!

@King:

Why are you guys bringing real-life achievements into this?

The last thing this place needs is a "I'm better than you irl" contest.

Sorry dude, he's comment just tickle a little and I felt like I had to make things clear in that regard.

[Portgas-D-Ace 3]

@vagabond87:

Then look up a latter and earlier posts.
I taken into account possibility and pointed at what it is MORE PROBABLY.

I didnt stated that Brooks freezing=haki. You proven what I wrote with that quote.

@King:

Brook's ice is NOT Haki. He's weaponizing this. It's a soul-related ability, like his astral projection.

And Luffy already confirmed that Brook doesn't have Haki yet.

Honestly, you call other arguments weird even though you're the one who is causing all this confusion.

Nope. Oda confirmed it in a SBS. No Haki for anybody but the Monster Trio.

KC suggested that Brook's ice powers were not haki to which you replied:

@vagabond87:

I wrote about Brooks power being imbuing soul - related power to his sword. I didnt wrote "it must be haki" but I called on it being as Brook said spirit related power, with chances of it being some form of haki utliziation.
Astral projections are one thing, this seems to be related to something else.

Sure you didn't say freezing=ice but neither did I accuse you of doing it. I said that you said that his freezing powers had haki overtones, which is what you did in this post.

EDIT: I think I've said what I wanted to say and now that the discussion has derailed into semantic hair-splitting I think I'll be coup de bursting myself out of it and resume to being a lurker. Ciao.

[King Cannon]

@vagabond87:

Same themes and set of powers related to them according to it?

How does Kinemons fox fire nickname and fire abilities add up with his Devil Fruit power?
Explain it to me then if all examples you pointed add up in your opinion then what would you say about other one out of more recent DF users and his set of abilities?

Kin'emon's fire is not part of his DF. His fire ability might be the same as Sanji and Daruma, which might get explained later.

Brook's ice however was already explained to be part of his DF power. He clearly explains the coldness as his soul's energy, which we know he can manipulate with his DF.

[vagabond87]

@Shadowgreed:

Acting like a douche? I tried my best at explaining things to you, but you keep yourself in your own bubble and now King Cannon is doing the same thing and I'm pretty sure he'll end up with the same conclusion as I did, just like Sereques. Don't keep things to yourself, that's bad for your health and If your right, you'r right, but If you wrong, you're wrong.

Are jokes part of that explanation as well? That was thing that set me off not your trying to explain things as you named it.
I simply dont see it.

At first I tried to argument over Doflamingos Overheat being imbued with haki and presumably heat as name suggests. With CCC translation and explanation of name of being mostly a pun it seems like it was auto KO and I am proven wrong because name of attack doesnt have anything to do with what it is(while I still do believe there is big chance of heat playing big part of attack power of Mingos overheat). Then I wrote I take anime version over CCC explanation of name of an attack if it will be shown as covered with fire or extremely heated up.

But of course If I will take what anime team will do with an attack then It seems that with that blasphemy on my account all points that I make even later about Sanjis CoO and even later about Brooks freezing and my thoughts on connection between that and Fire from Sanji, Daruma and Kinemon, with addition of Zoros spirit-soul being able to project "demons" that can actually damage enemies. Same like Brooks freezing affects people that he is fighting with and when we dont have any better explanation to date. So I tried to connect the dots on my own in way that is not being hinted enough/ likable enough. This is worth second thoughts and trying to get an different angle at some things that might seem obvious at first.

@King:

Kin'emon's fire is not part of his DF. His fire ability might be the same as Sanji and Daruma, which might get explained later.

Brook's ice however was already explained to be part of his DF power. He clearly explains the coldness as his soul's energy, which we know he can manipulate with his DF.

Same can be said an arc from now by Kinemon or some other fire user when he explains fire being addition to his attacks. With fire being nature/ soul energy of most alive people or something like that(a joke.. or maybe not). If Zoro can project/imbue his swords with spirit-sould related projection, Brook is shown to do and say something related to it then I assume fire can go through same cathegory and that over assumption is why I hold my ground in that regard and why I get so irritated at jokes.

[King Cannon]

@vagabond87:

Same can be said an arc from now by Kinemon or some other fire user when he explains fire being addition to his attacks. With fire being nature/ soul energy of most alive people or something like that(a joke.. or maybe not). If Zoro can project/imbue his swords with spirit-sould related projection, Brook is shown to do and say something related to it then I assume fire can go through same cathegory and that over assumption is why I hold my ground in that regard and why I get so irritated at jokes.

By that logic, why doesn't Brook use fire instead of ice?

The coldness is a common aspect of death and souls. Brook is simply able to manipulate it because his DF is about death and souls.

[vagabond87]

@King:

By that logic, why doesn't Brook use fire instead of ice?

The coldness is a common aspect of death. Brook is simply able to manipulate it.

Because he is kind of or was dead? Because different people have different souls/ natures/ potentials?
Its pulling straws here as I stated something simple - Brooks freezing being same to Brook what fire is to Kinemon or Sanji or to what Ashura is to Zoro, please dont ask me about details and exceptions when you disagree with concept that I tried to make out of things.

Its question like when I wrote about my assumption of Vergo having metal paramecia when even though I gave plenty of points towards it being very likely revelation in future some people started to make questions about:

• for best and only example that I want to bring - atomic bonds between metal and food lol just to hear "I dont fuc**ing know?" and people writing it could have been Vergos sweat that holded up food and even spoon or that he is magnetic man because there are some people in world that can put a pan and it sticks to their tit for example.

So later when I wrote about Van der Waals forces I gotten as reply - you theory is a joke lol. While there was no counter argument to it.

This is a bit same. I think something, its not strongly backed up by what was shown in manga now and I get into long discussion where faults are pointed, questions are asked
but no strong and confirmed, manga fact contrarguments followed those same as back then.

You cannot disprove my angle on possible Brooks, Zoros and Sanjis element/spirit related powers, not using any of your arguments or examples from manga. Themes of devil fruits and element powers doesnt go always in a way that is disproving my take on that. Kinemon being best example till now. Especially given a fact that he is swordsman using fire being revealed designed/shown in manga not very long after Brook revealed his freezing addition to sword. Also Daruma getting all into fire page after soul solid without any explanation is for me a hint toward soul manifesting itself outside of body of human/fishman. Examples(presumably): Zoro, Brook, Sanji, Daruma, one of WB commanders, maybe McGuy.

If you would be able to disprove what I build up I would admit that I am clearly wrong and that there is no open window for my take being what can by big chances end up as manga fact in future.

[King Cannon]

@vagabond87:

Because he is kind of or was dead? Because different people have different souls/ natures/ potentials?
Its pulling straws here as I stated something simple - Brooks freezing being same to Brook what fire is to Kinemon or Sanji or to what Ashura is to Zoro, please dont ask me about details and exceptions when you disagree with concept that I tried to make out of things.

Its question like when I wrote about my assumption of Vergo having metal paramecia when even though I gave plenty of points towards it being very likely revelation in future some people started to make questions about:

• for best and only example that I want to bring - atomic bonds between metal and food lol just to hear "I dont fuc**ing know?" and people writing it could have been Vergos sweat that holded up food and even spoon or that he is magnetic man because there are some people in world that can put a pan and it sticks to their tit for example.

So later when I wrote about Van der Waals forces I gotten as reply - you theory is a joke lol. While there was no counter argument to it.

This is a bit same. I think something, its not strongly backed up by what was shown in manga now and I get into long discussion where faults are pointed, questions are asked
but no strong and confirmed, manga fact contrarguments followed those same as back then.

You cannot disprove my angle on possible Brooks, Zoros and Sanjis element/spirit related powers, not using any of your arguments or examples from manga. Themes of devil fruits and element powers doesnt go always in a way that is disproving my take on that. Kinemon being best example till now. Especially given a fact that he is swordsman using fire being revealed designed/shown in manga not very long after Brook revealed his freezing addition to sword. Also Daruma getting all into fire page after soul solid without any explanation is for me a hint toward soul manifesting itself outside of body of human/fishman. Examples(presumably): Zoro, Brook, Sanji, Daruma, one of WB commanders, maybe McGuy.

If you would be able to disprove what I build up I would admit that I am clearly wrong and that there is no open window for my take being what can by big chances end up as manga fact in future.

Again, you're trying to group Brook with the likes of Sanji, Kin'emon and Daruma assuming that their powers are of the same nature based on the fact that Daruma was shown setting himself on fire a page after Brook attacked Zeo. I really don't understand how you can make any sort of connection here considering that those were two different events with two different characters in two different sides.

Here's what we know:

• Brook's DF allows him to manipulate his soul and its aspects too. He explained this himself.
• Coldness is an aspect of death and the soul.
• Brook himself said that he was imbuing his sword with the energy of his soul. Because coldness is an aspect of the soul, then it makes sense for it to have freezing properties.
• Oda has never hinted that Brook's freezing ability was a result of anything else but his DF.

Also, about the Brook -> Daruma logic that you're using, I can use the same logic in those two pages. The first page shows Brook using his DF to reform himself and the following page shows him using his Soul Solid. In that case, can't I conclude that the Soul Solid's coldness is part of his DF ability too?

[vagabond87]

@King:

Again, you're trying to group Brook with the likes of Sanji, Kin'emon and Daruma assuming that their powers are of the same nature based on the fact that Daruma was shown setting himself on fire a page after Brook attacked Zeo. I really don't understand how you can make any sort of connection here considering that those were two different events with two different characters in two different sides.

Here's what we know:

• Brook's DF allows him to manipulate his soul and its aspects too. He explained this himself.
• Coldness is an aspect of death and the soul.
• Brook himself said that he was imbuing his sword with the energy of his soul. Because coldness is an aspect of the soul, then it makes sense for it to have freezing properties.
• Oda has never hinted that Brook's freezing ability was a result of anything else but his DF.

Also, about the Brook -> Daruma logic that you're using, I can use the same logic in those two pages. The first page shows Brook using his DF to reform himself and the following page shows him using his Soul Solid. In that case, can't I conclude that the Soul Solid's coldness is part of his DF ability too?

You are picking at what I gave you now- I used as an hint-argument that Daruma fired up on next page. Thats side argument, third league argument so to say, not core one why I thought on sharing thought of soul of individual affecting fights in some ways- Brooks freezing, Kinemons fire, Zoros Ashura and some others being related to spirit affecting combat. Thats all.

And you kind of repeating yourself, making me repeat myself but you probably know that. I will not make you understand how I connect the dots if I didnt till now as it takes some freefall jump so to say in my point of view. I will not make up new arguments out of thin air- all was pretty much summed up in last post(s). So I have nothing to add even if I want to.

[Redx]

Theres too much to read through so can someone explain the general point of the current argument in here?

[Sereques]

Vagabond87, you seem like a nice bloke and I tend to like your avatars. I will do my best to explain things to you. I'm not an authority, if you want confirmation, you can take it to the folks that understand Japanese or go learn Japanese yourself.

There are different ways people fight in One Piece

1. Devil Fruit, this is the most common and proficient fighters milk their DF to the last penny. Croc said something about this. It's not about having the DF ability but how you use it. People learn more from their DF depending how they are willing to push themselves.

2. Personal fighting techniques. This techniques are not related to DF nor Haki. In other for the regular humans to cope with the insane power DF users brings to the table, they learn to develop these techniques themselves. #1 on the list is Sanji with DJ. Also, there is a difference between using a sword to fight and swordsmen. Swordsmen take this art to another level, they form a bond with their sword. They relate with their sword as if it's alive. Zoro said something back at whiskey peak, the sword should cut only when the master wants to. They can create amazing techniques with this weapon, that is why Mihawk could swing his sword and a mountain of ice gets cut miles away, Zoro's cannon attacks, Rashomon, Shishi sonson, Enbima Yozenu, Kaen, Asura Ichibugin, all these attacks are not Haki related. To understand this better, I will say focus on Zoro, he seems to be the one Oda focused on into detail, we saw all his growth. There was a time Zoro had to make a little recitation before launching Rashomon, and we all saw the development of his pound cannon attacks. Most Zoro attacks are wind based, I will like to think Kinenmon is similar but just fire based. Don't confuse someone like Zoro to Law. Even though Law slice up PH in half, his techniques are 100% DF. Brook on the other hand is a swordsman, Yahazu Giri, Coup De vant, are all techniques he uses, but after TS, he somehow learn to add his DF power to his techniques. The Marines even have a skill set (Rokushuki) they teach themselves.

2b) This is still under personal techniques, some fighters do things to their weapons. Aka Don Kreig, his spear explodes on contact. this "MAY" explain folks like Hannyball, McGuy etc. Daruma on the other hand seem strange. I don't know much ocean life but I don't think we have a shark that burrows the ground like Daruma. It may be something to do with the type of fish or technique he learn himself. I don't think any of those fishman pirates had a clue on Haki talk more of using it.

3. Haki, Rayleigh explain this during Luffy's training. Haki can be use along with 1 and 2 to make attacks more powerful or strike a DF user actual body. We know people can be born with COO, or develop it during stress moment. We know COC can be fired unconsciously, but we've never seen anyone use CoA unconsciously. CoA seems to be the hardest to use, you have to be aware of it and know you want to use it. We have never seen anyone use CoA to create elemental attacks. We don't know much about CoC, but there is more to it than disabling fodders. This was shown in the clash between Edward and Shanks, Luffy and Chinjao use it against each other. Apart from Luffy that fire CoC unconsciously, NONE of the SHs could use Haki before timeskip. None as in Zero. You shouldn't confuse Haki with personal techniques and/or DF. If it wasn't stated the character can use Haki, never assume they can. Oda seem to make this clear so we can differentiate those that use it and those that don't.

Finally, this is an advice as a friend. Never use Anime to reinforce your argument on this forum. Trust me, I learn the hard way. If you can't prove your opinion with the pages of the manga, just forget about it.

[vagabond87]

@Sereques:

Vagabond87, you seem like a nice bloke and I tend to like your avatars. I will do my best to explain things to you. I'm not an authority, if you want confirmation, you can take it to the folks that understand Japanese or go learn Japanese yourself.

There are different ways people fight in One Piece

1. Devil Fruit, this is the most common and proficient fighters milk their DF to the last penny. Croc said something about this. It's not about having the DF ability but how you use it. People learn more from their DF depending how they are willing to push themselves.

2. Personal fighting techniques. This techniques are not related to DF nor Haki. In other for the regular humans to cope with the insane power DF users brings to the table, they learn to develop these techniques themselves. #1 on the list is Sanji with DJ. Also, there is a difference between using a sword to fight and swordsmen. Swordsmen take this art to another level, they form a bond with their sword. They relate with their sword as if it's alive. Zoro said something back at whiskey peak, the sword should cut only when the master wants to. They can create amazing techniques with this weapon, that is why Mihawk could swing his sword and a mountain of ice gets cut miles away, Zoro's cannon attacks, Rashomon, Shishi sonson, Enbima Yozenu, Kaen, Asura Ichibugin, all these attacks are not Haki related. To understand this better, I will say focus on Zoro, he seems to be the one Oda focused on into detail, we saw all his growth. There was a time Zoro had to make a little recitation before launching Rashomon, and we all saw the development of his pound cannon attacks. Most Zoro attacks are wind based, I will like to think Kinenmon is similar but just fire based. Don't confuse someone like Zoro to Law. Even though Law slice up PH in half, his techniques are 100% DF. Brook on the other hand is a swordsman, Yahazu Giri, Coup De vant, are all techniques he uses, but after TS, he somehow learn to add his DF power to his techniques. The Marines even have a skill set (Rokushuki) they teach themselves.

2b) This is still under personal techniques, some fighters do things to their weapons. Aka Don Kreig, his spear explodes on contact. this "MAY" explain folks like Hannyball, McGuy etc. Daruma on the other hand seem strange. I don't know much ocean life but I don't think we have a shark that burrows the ground like Daruma. It may be something to do with the type of fish or technique he learn himself. I don't think any of those fishman pirates had a clue on Haki talk more of using it.

3. Haki, Rayleigh explain this during Luffy's training. Haki can be use along with 1 and 2 to make attacks more powerful or strike a DF user actual body. We know people can be born with COO, or develop it during stress moment. We know COC can be fired unconsciously, but we've never seen anyone use CoA unconsciously. CoA seems to be the hardest to use, you have to be aware of it and know you want to use it. We have never seen anyone use CoA to create elemental attacks. We don't know much about CoC, but there is more to it than disabling fodders. This was shown in the clash between Edward and Shanks, Luffy and Chinjao use it against each other. Apart from Luffy that fire CoC unconsciously, NONE of the SHs could use Haki before timeskip. None as in Zero. You shouldn't confuse Haki with personal techniques and/or DF. If it wasn't stated the character can use Haki, never assume they can. Oda seem to make this clear so we can differentiate those that use it and those that don't.

Finally, this is an advice as a friend. Never use Anime to reinforce your argument on this forum. Trust me, I learn the hard way. If you can't prove your opinion with the pages of the manga, just forget about it.

Thank you for time and effort resulting with explanation and giving examples.
As I get all of what you wrote better than you probably expect.
Still a sword being a medium to imbuing it with spirit of a person(not haki by definition) I mean- sounds somehow plausible after what Zoro shown with Ashura and not so long ago Brook as well. I dont want to throw away that possibility as I still see it as plausible explanation for fire out of nothing or Thunder from McGuy

! in anime they gave us more clear shot
! Idea that all those

! clearly shown in both anime and manga
!

like really all

!
of those
!
elements added to swords for example can be explained by imbuing spirit to weapon(alike what Brook is now able to do with freezing aspect of his blade) doesnt sound half bad for me. Sure now he can affect people with his soul more proficiently thanks to getting more out of his devil fruit ability by training with it for 2 years- for example with his music and attacks like Fantasia but once again I would not add this freezing to Brooks DF basket that easily. I rather stick to spirit imbuing his sword with ice cold breeze from underworld being addtional power and going along with his overall theme. I added anime pictures for more clear shots of those than in manga. Its very clear how bad trying to prove something up to discussion is while using anime, and how bad overall yet here at examples I posted they didnt screwed up anything and its 1 on 1 like in manga.
I dont call those attack haki but spirit imbuing weapons, spirit affecting weapons in elemental or materializing-projection-like in Zoros case way, thats all. For me Oda seems to be aiming at adding new aspect to fights, explaining this way some unexplained things. Most of people here explain me that this is not haki while I wrote that I take it as something different.
Zoro commented that he always wanted to have fire sword, but if my take on this is right he cannot have it as his spirit imbuing his weapon manifests itself as Ashura/ demonic energy.
Zoros Ashura or some attacks like this one
! were said to be capable of bending air and projecting stuff. Maybe you people are adding too much to Brooks power or maybe his fruit is boosting this aspect of swordsmanship in One Piece. Its too early to say that its not related with all that I pointed to.

As for Don Krieg I expect him to be Cesar Crown client - so his return as one of Underworld Brokers in New World. His deadly weapons and especially his deadly MH5 gas sound like a window for Oda to tie him with CC before time skip and after it. Gin could also return this way if he lived through gas poisoning(99% sure he did). Just wanted to share it as Don Krieg was mentioned

[Flipper Pride]

Or it's just an ability that brook got once he died because coldness is an aspect of death.

Sorry, not bothered to read everything at the moment.

[vagabond87]

@Flipper:

Or it's just an ability that brook got once he died because coldness is an aspect of death.

Sorry, not bothered to read everything at the moment.

No problem

I think that with first big guns having real fights for first time in New World this thread will be quite boiling with new info.
Last time when one of Mingo top tier crew mates - Vergo - had some showings of CoA this thread was quite full of posts.
Now with Doflamingo and all 3 seated officers of his getting some good fights we surely will get more on haki and gain new angle on some fights that already happened.

I expect there will be some new comments about haki from Luffy, Mingo and others. Especially as we will get to see Luffy vs Doflamingo at end of arc presumably- first full fledged fight of two very strong CoC users.
Maybe it will show more of what CoC can do in a fight as in Chinjao vs Luffy we gotten just one clash with additional shockwave all over arena and that was all beside Diamantes comment.

[Redx]

I don't think that Brooks' cold is Haki. Though there might be some correlation between Haki and "soul" that allows these characters to generate elements.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Some One Piece rants on Haki I did on another forum.

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-general/one-piece-vs-discussion-thread-how-strong-they-are-abilities-etc-291098/52

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/manga/one-piece-the-official-discussion-thread-97073/110

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/manga/one-piece-the-official-discussion-thread-97073/111

[WILLoDz]

Been thinking that maybe Benn Beckman puts haki in his bullets just like the amazon women with their arrows, why else would it even matter that he carries a rifle around

[vagabond87]

@Redx:

I don't think that Brooks' cold is Haki. Though there might be some correlation between Haki and "soul" that allows these characters to generate elements.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Some One Piece rants on Haki I did on another forum.

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-general/one-piece-vs-discussion-thread-how-strong-they-are-abilities-etc-291098/52

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/manga/one-piece-the-official-discussion-thread-97073/110

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/manga/one-piece-the-official-discussion-thread-97073/111

I also dont think that Brooks ability is haki and that there is soul-spirit related part of fights that is still unexplained and is explanation for Zoros Ashura, Brooks ice, Sanjis and Kinemons fire etc.

As for those other forums they sure are… giffy But I see that haki everywhere is unclear enough subject to be fuel for some long debates...

@WILLoDz:

Been thinking that maybe Benn Beckman puts haki in his bullets just like the amazon women with their arrows, why else would it even matter that he carries a rifle around

Surely he does. He is Yonko first mate and even if Kizaru was himself and acted goofy Beckmans shoots must be dangerous even for him to rise hands hands in the air.