My only argument about Sanji's fighting techniques is that they are awesome. I cannot lose this argument.
General 'Haki' Discussion
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Well.. We let it slide that everything Franky makes is Cola-powered, isn't that sort of the same thing? Would you get upset for not having an explanation for that?
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My only argument about Sanji's fighting techniques is that they are awesome. I cannot lose this argument.
What's that? I hear growling in your near future. Vicious fangs are pointed in your direction. The details are too inappropriate to describe.
The other beast says he likes Jinbe's techniques. I can't argue with that. Jinbe may be a proficient user of haki. It's just hard to OW! Bad beast! No biting!
transmission error
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Yeah, count me in on Oda's refusal to make clear whether Zoro & Sanji use Haki in some manner being annoying. Just tell us already instead of putting in things that may or may not be hints they're familiar with it or use it more or less consciously.
I know we don't have exact, 100% proof, but isn't it obvious just from what we know already?
For me, I don't believe I need to be a skeptic for Zoro's case. As for Sanji it's less clear, but I assume from his knowledge of what CoC haki is from seeing Luffy use it, in contrast to how he reacted with Rayleigh, which was with confusion. And now, he uses fire attacks, which I can only assume is enhanced or I should say possible through haki, as was done with one of Boa's sisters. I'm assuming here at least that the fire either comes from the heat of his body or his passions (he's quite a passionate guy, hence how his hair turns up when he gets pissed), or his cigarette/lighter. Whatever the case, his body is not harmed by being engulfed in fire.
I'm more concerned how Luffy uses a fire attack. I've even read on another forum, that Luffy wanting so badly to hold onto Ace's life, even if subconsciously, took a little of his df power without knowing it through the power of ambition… Anyways, I want a good answer to this question. I don't want it to be possible for just about anyone with skill in the use of haki to produce fire.
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I feel like it should be common sense in a way as well, but Oda's aggravating refusal to give an actual direct answer on the matter and his, to me, several very disappointing decisions throughout this arc and somewhat even for post-timeskip Luffy in general has me worried I'm wrong.
Red Hawk is probably just Luffy punching so hard it creates an explosion / heat. Hopefully, anyway. You could ask why that doesn't happen with everyone then but I'd say the answer to that is the same as why not everyone who kicks in battles heats up their leg like Sanji.
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I think Haki is a really convenient tool for Oda to troll his readers. Anyone who wants clear cut answers is gonna be seriously disappointed.
Of course, the "next crew member" is an even more powerful tool…
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Red Hawk is probably just Luffy punching so hard it creates an explosion / heat. Hopefully, anyway. You could ask why that doesn't happen with everyone then but I'd say the answer to that is the same as why not everyone who kicks in battles heats up their leg like Sanji.
You know, this now has me wondering if he could do a similar punch in Gear 3. That would be monstrously epic. However, given the setup he was doing for the punch, it may not be possible. It would seem kinda difficult for Luffy to throw back a Gear Three arm like that and then snap it forward, but then again, after remembering what he did against Noah, who knows what is really difficult for him, barring any injuries to his body.
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Oda already gave an explanation as to why Sanji's Diable Jambe doesn't burn him, he gave it back near when Sanji first did it.
"Because the fire in Sanji's heart is hotter than the fire on his leg".
That's literally Oda's explanation. It's just as ridiculous as "Brook can make ice because he has an Icy soul" and "Different types of drinks make Franky's personality change".
The idea that "This one ridiculous thing needs an explanation" doesn't make sense when there's a varitable sea of ridiculous things that happen in every chapter of this manga
And Sanji lights his leg due to friction against the ground while he's spinning. Which IS a real world thing that you can do (Just nowhere near as easily as Sanji does) With enough speed, you can create fire just by friction against the air.
I assume Red Hawk is the same thing.
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Oda already gave an explanation as to why Sanji's Diable Jambe doesn't burn him, he gave it back near when Sanji first did it.
"Because the fire in Sanji's heart is hotter than the fire on his leg".
That's literally Oda's explanation. It's just as ridiculous as "Brook can make ice because he has an Icy soul" and "Different types of drinks make Franky's personality change".
The idea that "This one ridiculous thing needs an explanation" doesn't make sense when there's a varitable sea of ridiculous things that happen in every chapter of this manga
And Sanji lights his leg due to friction against the ground while he's spinning. Which IS a real world thing that you can do (Just nowhere near as easily as Sanji does) With enough speed, you can create fire just by friction against the air.
I assume Red Hawk is the same thing.
You should read the thread a bit more. Very few care that Sanji's fire doesn't hurt him. I only care that he no longer spins to do it anymore. Brook's is a DF power and Franky's is an exaggerated real life concept of food affecting ones mood/personality.
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You should read the thread a bit more. Very few care that Sanji's fire doesn't hurt him. I only care that he no longer spins to do it anymore. Brook's is a DF power and Franky's is an exaggerated real life concept of food affecting ones mood/personality.
But you said previously that Sanji spinning wasn't an issue anymore
You need to read my statements a little more closely. I have already stated at least once that Sanji spinning to activate Diable Jambe isn't an issue.
Granted, I haven't been following this discussion too closely. I would like for you to clarify what exactly is bothering you in a single post so I can argue against you without having to sound stupid because I couldn't bother reading all your previous posts, please.
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Sanji no longer needs friction to heat himself up. He simply wills it. Same with not being hurt by it. He simply wills it. Same with him turning to stone. He simply… er, Oda wills that to substitute a less children-appropriate response. Okay? Okay.
Is the Monster Trio literally a trio of monsters in human bodies? It depends on the context, really. Compared to civilians (and their fellow crewmembers), yes. Compared to top-ranked fighters present at Marineford or whatnot, nope.
In what sort of context would haki being more clearly defined? Not much other than explicit statements, as this is a comic book. Implicit statements would more likely bring controversy to the whole topic, hence the debates listed here.
Now, would anyone like a nice warm cup of tea or coffee?
Get it yourselfI'm afraid I can't help you there. -
But you said previously that Sanji spinning wasn't an issue anymore
Granted, I haven't been following this discussion too closely. I would like for you to clarify what exactly is bothering you in a single post so I can argue against you without having to sound stupid because I couldn't bother reading all your previous posts, please.
In both of the posts you quoted I am stating that I, Zkaiser, do not have a problem with Sanji spinning to activate his Diable Jambe technique and that has never been a topic of my discussions in this thread. It falls under my personal category of skills which are exaggerated real life events.
Sanji no longer needs friction to heat himself up. He simply hakis it. Same with not being hurt by it. He simply hakis it. Same with him turning to stone. He simply… er, Oda wills that to substitute a less children-appropriate response. Okay? Okay.
Ok.
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Dude, totally ruined the flow of those few sentences. See why it doesn't work? :ninja:
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If Will was Haki, then you could say that Ivankov used Haki by willing a Death Wink, except that no one argues that anymore simply because Oda says so.
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Posts like these are why I get so many infractions. Are you really that stupid?
Yes, I'm doing that on purpose. And are you really that stubborn?
There's a bigger picture to the environment that your argument is making, and it's quite fruitless. You aren't making things clearer. Arguments become circular easily when two sides can't reconcile differences.
No one knows how Haki really works. People with Asian cultural backgrounds understand the concept of Ki somewhat, and Oda is really playing off that. The rest is open to anyone's imagination.
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In both of the posts you quoted I am stating that I, Zkaiser, do not have a problem with Sanji spinning to activate his Diable Jambe technique and that has never been a topic of my discussions in this thread. It falls under my personal category of skills which are exaggerated real life events.
So, your problem boils down to Oda not being realistic with the realism that he portrays in his fantasy manga? Honestly, I can't see the point of this discussion.
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Stupidity is fun in small doses. It's not like One Piece is an intellectual exploration of human cognition. It's a youthful, masculine fantasy. Everything is open to imagination in OP.
Besides, Oda loves to troll nerds. Look at how he's handling Jinbei.
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So, your problem boils down to Oda not being realistic with the realism that he portrays in his fantasy manga? Honestly, I can't see the point of this discussion.
Not really. My argument is that he is being consistent with the rules that he set up within the universe and that Sanji's new Diable-On (Apply Directly to the Foreleg!) is most likely an ability that derives from the use of haki. Since I think this, I'm just awaiting Oda to explain how the haki is being used to do this particular act.
Also, I wouldn't complain too much about realism than I would about consistency. As far as I can tell, In the world of One Piece, people cannot will themselves to spontaneously catch fire. With this in mind, Sanji's Diable Jambe seems out of place to me. Therefore, I look in the series for what can cause such an anomaly. Hence, why we are having this conversation in the haki thread.
For the record, would everyone against what I am proposing not ask questions if Sanji decided to think of hot women causing him to become stone and protect himself from attacks? To me, this is a similar situation.
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Not really. My argument is that he is being consistent with the rules that he set up within the universe and that Sanji's new Diable-On (Apply Directly to the Foreleg!) is most likely an ability that derives from the use of haki. Since I think this, I'm just awaiting Oda to explain how the haki is being used to do this particular act.
Also, I wouldn't complain too much about realism than I would about consistency. As far as I can tell, In the world of One Piece, people cannot will themselves to spontaneously catch fire. With this in mind, Sanji's Diable Jambe seems out of place to me. Therefore, I look in the series for what can cause such an anomaly. Hence, why we are having this conversation in the haki thread.
For the record, would everyone against what I am proposing not ask questions if Sanji decided to think of hot women causing him to become stone and protect himself from attacks? To me, this is a similar situation.
I think I may owe you an apology. However, reading your previous posts is a quick way to fall asleep. Maybe spruce up your posts a bit?
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How come the iron doesn't melt when you turn it on?
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How come the iron doesn't melt when you turn it on?
Ha, you talking about an iron, like ironing clothes, with an ironing board?
You do realize that things have different melting points right. Not sure what is being discussed here at the moment, probably sanji's diablo jimbei.
But I'm not going to even look up stuff about chemestry, but I'm sure human skin and muscle will melt way sooner than iron does.
I mean take iron pots and pans. How about you put them in the oven at say 475 degress Farenheit. Now take those pots and pans and go into the oven yourself. Tell me which one is in better shape at the end of an hour. You or the pots and pans.
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What I was getting at is that the energy and heat is generated inside a plastic shell but doesn't melt. When you look at the source of energy for Sanji's flame friction, you see that he's not heating up his leg but the area outside his legs. His leg won't burn for the same reason that people can walk on ot coals or run their hand through a candle flame. The area around his leg is heating up but doesn't burn him or his clothes because of the surface tension. Though is this even important when Zoro can grow arms and ligaments visible to everyone?
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Oda already gave an explanation as to why Sanji's Diable Jambe doesn't burn him, he gave it back near when Sanji first did it.
"Because the fire in Sanji's heart is hotter than the fire on his leg".
That's literally Oda's explanation. It's just as ridiculous as "Brook can make ice because he has an Icy soul" and "Different types of drinks make Franky's personality change".
The idea that "This one ridiculous thing needs an explanation" doesn't make sense when there's a varitable sea of ridiculous things that happen in every chapter of this manga
And Sanji lights his leg due to friction against the ground while he's spinning. Which IS a real world thing that you can do (Just nowhere near as easily as Sanji does) With enough speed, you can create fire just by friction against the air.
I assume Red Hawk is the same thing.
Whoa, wait a minute, there's a totally neuropsychophysic-whatever-logical explanation as why Franky gets a change in personalitay…HAKI!
In all seriousness, this post encircles everything we've been arguing so far, wanting a very spoonfeed-like explanation as why Sanji isn't burnt or how he used his DJ in the air is a waste of time.
A common misconception is that some fans want to explain everything with haki. "OMG! IVA HAS HAKI CUZ HIS BLAST LOOKS LIKE COA!!!" well guess what, either Oda trolled you or you need to stop wanting to explain everaydthing wit haki!
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Wait? People think Sanji is using Ambition to light his leg?…
Oda's just not bothering to show him activating it anymore. The anime had him spin to activate it when he used it recently.
That or it's another joke about how thinking of the horrors of the island he was on is making him heat up or something lol.
Oda spelled out everything Ambition can do.
Armament: Make things harder/armored
Observation: Mildly read people's minds/moves
Conquerors: Sheer domination and intimidationThat's it. There was no "Color of Fire" Ambition.
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The anime fucked up he doesn't spin to heat up.
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The anime fucked up he doesn't spin to heat up.
I don't see him spinning the manga, but I also don't see him "not" spinning in the manga.
We see one frame, then the next he is on fire. We don't know if Oda just didn't draw the spinning, or if he didn't spin. Wait for an SBS question to clarify this, or for it to be stated as such in manga.
As of now its only speculation as to if he spun or not.
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No he doesn't spin because Oda never drew him spinning. Do you really think he ha time to spin when fighting people in the new world. He doesn't even have a platform to spin on in the air. So unless you think he twirled in the air he doesn't spin. He use to keep one foot on the ground when spinning, so to suggest he does spin is not only to go againts what we were shown in the manga but to assume he doesn't need a solid surface to spin off of. The anime is changing cannon. Instead of the pascifista standing in fron't of Sanji and Zoro getting ready to shoot lasers from his hands the anime showed the machine flying towards them shooting lasers from his mouth.
So im suppose to believe that Sanji twirls in the air(becuase you can't spin in one spot in the air you have to twirl) go againts what the manga tells me and believe the anime even though they're changing Cannon?
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Sanji gained the power to ignite without the use of spinning during the timeskip. It doesn't really seem like Haki to me, although I can't deny there is a real "armament" feel to it.
man it really rustles my jimmies to see people just say "it's just a comic jeeze!" or "it's one piece and it's goofy, so what's the point of theorizing?" There have definitely been instances in one piece where something that i had originally dismissed as just a gag turned out to have an actual physical explanation. trying to differentiate between them is just one of the really fun things that one piece does so uniquely well as a manga.
it's my firm belief that oda expects us, as fans, to theorize all the intricacies these crazy abilities could conceivably work. Just relax and have some fun with it, for god's sake.
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Sanji can easily spin in the air. Sanji could spin in the air just like a football does. I love how you argue that he needs a solid surface to spin on, yet are completely ignoring that he is RUNNING and JUMPING on air.
Where is the solid surface there.
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Oda already had Rayleigh explain everything Ambition can do.
"Make fire" wasn't one of them.
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Yeah, he probably is using some variation of Rokushiki in order to ignite his leg. That makes the most sense to me.
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Sanji gained the power to ignite without the use of spinning during the timeskip. It doesn't really seem like Haki to me, although I can't deny there is a real "armament" feel to it.
man it really rustles my jimmies to see people just say "it's just a comic jeeze!" or "it's one piece and it's goofy, so what's the point of theorizing?" There have definitely been instances in one piece where something that i had originally dismissed as just a gag turned out to have an actual physical explanation. trying to differentiate between them is just one of the really fun things that one piece does so uniquely well as a manga.
it's my firm belief that oda expects us, as fans, to theorize all the intricacies these crazy abilities could conceivably work. Just relax and have some fun with it, for god's sake.
That is what we are trying to say. We are just enjoying Sanji doing his diablo Jimbei. We don't care how he activates it or how it even works. We are enjoying.
We are not sure how you guys are enjoying it when you have to break it down to the smallest atom in your search to how it works.
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looking at this months SJ i also noticed something that got me, sanji uses DJ under water against the kraken. im pretty sure hes actually turning his entire leg into a source of heat rather then just setting something on fire. not sure how the friction or fire explanations would even work underwater.
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There have definitely been instances in one piece where something that i had originally dismissed as just a gag turned out to have an actual physical explanation.
Huh…like which ones?
Yeah, he probably is using some variation of Rokushiki in order to ignite his leg. That makes the most sense to me.
Or he probably ignited his leg before launching into the air.
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Oda already had Rayleigh explain everything Ambition can do.
"Make fire" wasn't one of them.
So explain Boa Marigold's Salamander ability.
This is what I got from the onepiece.wikia entry, which is as close as what we know.
"[Marigold] possesses the ability to use Haki to defend and deflect against attacks, even against other Devil Fruit users. So far, she has been seen using Busoshoku Haki, having enough mastery in the technique that she can light herself on fire without any harm."
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So if there is absolutely no explanation for Sanji's state in which he used "Hell Memories" some of you will just go "LOL ITZ ONE PIECE" and not give a damn? That would be really sloppy writing on Oda's part to just give a character, especially one that is so heavily combat oriented as Sanji a completely random and free massive power-up that he didn't train or do anything at all to achieve, he just got it because, uhm, he got really, really pissed off. Luffy has to train and train and train like crazy and push his body to all kinds of injury and strain, but Sanji just has to get angry? That's outright horrible and I sincerely hope Oda hasn't gotten as lazy as to actually do that. If I'm right, we should certainly expect an explanation for his new power and I really don't see why it would have nothing to do with Haki. Oda doesn't just make random things up for his three most important fighters in the whole manga. Don't hold him to such low standards. Yes, Ashura stands unexplained right now but I seriously doubt it will remain so.
I honestly think some people think too little of Oda in these regards. What fun is a new technique if it just makes the character explode with shining brilliant power and that's all, no non-gag explanation, no catch and little to no ingenuity or work required? Put that shit back in Dragonball (not that I don't love DB). Oda has been way above that level in the past and for now we should expect him to remain at it.
Not really. My argument is that he is being consistent with the rules that he set up within the universe and that Sanji's new Diable-On (Apply Directly to the Foreleg!) is most likely an ability that derives from the use of haki. Since I think this, I'm just awaiting Oda to explain how the haki is being used to do this particular act.
Also, I wouldn't complain too much about realism than I would about consistency. As far as I can tell, In the world of One Piece, people cannot will themselves to spontaneously catch fire. With this in mind, Sanji's Diable Jambe seems out of place to me. Therefore, I look in the series for what can cause such an anomaly. Hence, why we are having this conversation in the haki thread.
For the record, would everyone against what I am proposing not ask questions if Sanji decided to think of hot women causing him to become stone and protect himself from attacks? To me, this is a similar situation.
Thank you very much for this posts
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Oda already had Rayleigh explain everything Ambition can do.
"Make fire" wasn't one of them.
Naw he didn't say that Haki could harden your fist. He said it was like an armor and he attacked with it but he never said it could reduce damage. Fact is everyone can use Haki differently and it helps DF's in different ways. Such as Enel could use his in conjuction with his fruit to make it stronger.
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Oda already had Rayleigh explain everything Ambition can do.
"Make fire" wasn't one of them.
No, he didn't. That was just the basics. Somehow Luffy is turning his arm black by "hardening" it with Buso Haki. Rayleigh didn't say anything about that. He just said that you created an invisible armor. It's not very farfetched to say that if "basics" exist, then "complex" does as well.
Edit: Oh wow, mega ninja'd.
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So explain Boa Marigold's Salamander ability.
This is what I got from the onepiece.wikia entry, which is as close as what we know.
"[Marigold] possesses the ability to use Haki to defend and deflect against attacks, even against other Devil Fruit users. So far, she has been seen using Busoshoku Haki, having enough mastery in the technique that she can light herself on fire without any harm."
Stop posting please.
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I poested it already… PEOPLE will believe it first when Sanji and Zoro will stay at the top of the REDLINE and shout around the world "WE HAVE HAKI"
Oh wait Jozu never did it and so hasn't Whitebeard... And Shanks...a nd so on
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Well it pretty much clear that Zoro and Sanji have CoO haki.Whether they have CoA haki remains to be seen
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Well it pretty much clear that Zoro and Sanji have CoO haki.Whether they have CoA haki remains to be seen
Of course… Sanji is dumb to even try a logia user..
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Stop posting please.
One Piece Wikia is crap but that's still the best explanation we have for Salamander.
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Of course you are right… Had Jozu CoA or Shanks? Both weren't named to have it
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One Piece Wikia is crap but that's still the best explanation we have for Salamander.
No, it's the absolute worst on these entire forums. i suggest that you and others go and reread that fight sequence.
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I have a question about Haoshoku Haki: Is it useless against strong opponents?
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I have a question about Haoshoku Haki: Is it useless against strong opponents?
As of now it is. If my failhard theory about Zoro is anywhere near correct then I might see come actual combat use.
