we talk about their EQUAL power breaking aqua laguna
Luffy didn't use Gear 2 or Gear 3 at that time. And no, Asura is not equal to those moves.
zoro holding off kaku and jabs with an usopp handicap.
Holding?
They were running away.
we talk about their EQUAL power breaking aqua laguna
Luffy didn't use Gear 2 or Gear 3 at that time. And no, Asura is not equal to those moves.
zoro holding off kaku and jabs with an usopp handicap.
Holding?
They were running away.
Although failing miserably since earlier in the thread we talk about their EQUAL power breaking aqua laguna and zoro holding off kaku and jabs with an usopp handicap.
But isn't this an outlawed conversation?
You have no proof after asura and gear 2, to prove Luffy and Zoro are equal.
@AD-HD:
Luffy didn't use Gear 2 or Gear 3 at that time. And no, Asura is not equal to those moves.
Is this a quote from "ODA'S LIFE STORY?"
Holding?
They were running away.
It's called dodging and most of the running was when usopp wasn't a sword. Zoro actually attacked them using usopp, that itself is a pretty bold statement.
Now you gotta stop comparing the two, this conversation is over.
we talk about their EQUAL power breaking aqua laguna
They were the only 2 with strong long range attacks and the time.Im sure luffy and franky would have bean able to do it.same thing with zoro and franky.
zoro holding off kaku and jabs with an usopp handicap.
You know they were dumbed down just like calipha was to nami.And plus half the time he was dodging.If it was really that much of a handicap, he would have completly owned kaku when he broke free
Edit:also jabs and kaku was ten times more serious when he got free.So it shows they were taking it easy
Jab and Kaku were arguing amongst themselves, and hardly taking the fight seriously.
Zoro only just managed to beat Kaku… if Zoro could handle them both, he could have saved Usopp, instead of Sanji.
LOL, OIP, you're losing it. Prove how their powers were equal when stopping aqua laguna. Prove it from the manga... using facts.
Is this a quote from "ODA'S LIFE STORY?"
No, it's called "using you brains".
Asura is a move, not a state. Gear 2 and Gear 3 are states. And what I have seen, Gear 3 is far more powerful than Asura. You cant deny that.
It's called dodging and most of the running was when usopp wasn't a sword. Zoro actually attacked them using usopp, that itself is a pretty bold statement.
They were running away. Check that out if you want.
@AD-HD:
No, it's called "using you brains".
Asura is a move, not a state. Gear 2 and Gear 3 are states. And what I have seen, Gear 3 is far more powerful than Asura. You cant deny that.
Is this on page 2 of "ODA'S LIFE STORY?"
They were running away. Check that out if you want.
Until zoro began using usopp
@$abZ:
Jab and Kaku were arguing amongst themselves, and hardly taking the fight seriously.
They were arguing but they still tried to kill them.
Zoro only just managed to beat Kaku…
Blatent lie
if Zoro could handle them both, he could have saved Usopp, instead of Sanji.
He was half way across the room in the middle of a fight, your reasons are getting worse.
LOL, OIP, you're losing it. Prove how their powers were equal when stopping aqua laguna. Prove it from the manga… using facts.
The attacks were the same and if you look at their positions it equals half a circle on each side. If zoro's was more powerful his side would have been larger.
Until zoro began using usopp
Uh… check the manga. He was running... not fighting head on like he was doing with Kaku afterwards.
They were arguing but they still tried to kill them.
And failing to get along and fight seriously.
Blatent lie
Zoro didn't beat him effortlessly… not easily at all.
He was half way across the room in the middle of a fight, your reasons are getting worse.
Well, he could have easily knocked Kaku down and rushed to Usopp's rescue… since he take take both on, apparantly.
The attacks were the same and if you look at their positions it equals half a circle on each side. If zoro's was more powerful his side would have been larger.
How do you know Luffy wasn't surpressing?
The attacks were the same and if you look at their positions it equals half a circle on each side. If zoro's was more powerful his side would have been larger.
But that doesn't mean anything. Luffy wasn't using his Gears and Zoro wasn't using his Asura.
Is this on page 2 of "ODA'S LIFE STORY?"
Yeah it is. I suggest that you read it.
My debates are based on what we have seen.
Until zoro began using usopp
They didn't fought seriously.
@$abZ:
Uh… check the manga. He was running... not fighting head on like he was doing with Kaku afterwards.
Not continuosly fighting but to say he was mostly running means you need to re-read the manga
And failing to get along and fight seriously.
They still used attacks, their arguing is their own problem. Zoro blocked and attacked WITH USOPP stuck to him.
Zoro didn't beat him effortlessly… not easily at all.
Changing our colours are we?
Well, he could have easily knocked Kaku down and rushed to Usopp's rescue… since he take take both on, apparantly.
Swords cut they don't knock back, tekkai would have prevented this.
How do you know Luffy wasn't surpressing?
How do you know zoro wasn't suppressing? What a load of crap this isn't a fusion you know.
Not continuosly fighting but to say he was mostly running means you need to re-read the manga
Blocking attacks, one at a time… and he was running for a lot of the battle.
They still used attacks, their arguing is their own problem. Zoro blocked and attacked WITH USOPP stuck to him.
So, how does that prove he's equal to Luffy? Attacked and failed, btw.
Changing our colours are we?
Huh?
Swords cut they don't knock back, tekkai would have prevented this.
Remember when Zoro threw Kaku?
How do you know zoro wasn't suppressing? What a load of crap this isn't a fusion you know.
So you can only speculate. There wasn't a quote saying "OMG they used their full POWAAZ!!". That's just like saying… swordsman and martial artists are the same thing. That doesn't at all prove that they're equal... and it isn't good enough to 100% clarify that.
@$abZ:
Blocking attacks, one at a time… and he was running for a lot of the battle.
Before he used usopp, not after
So, how does that prove he's equal to Luffy? Attacked and failed, btw.
Tell luffy to fight them using usopp, he'd not do damage either. And the main fact is neither hurt neither. Zoro with usopp handicap avoided all hits, pretty damn impressive.
Huh?
hahaha
Remember when Zoro threw Kaku?
Which took time, which he didn't have. He was across the room he couldn't have made it across.
So you can only speculate. There wasn't a quote saying "OMG they used their full POWAAZ!!". That's just like saying… swordsman and martial artists are the same thing. That doesn't at all prove that they're equal... and it isn't good enough to 100% clarify that.
Well unlike you I can reconise a straining face and everyones reaction to aqua laguna proved it a powerful foe. Luffy and zoro showed signs of being tired after that move too.
"Tell Luffy to do what Zoro did?"
"Straining face?"
Seriously, is that supposed to better your arguement? The proof is not useful… when trying to argue that Luffy and Zoro have been stated 100% by Oda to be equal. 100%... no less. He hasn't yet... so quit speculating.
@$abZ:
"Tell Luffy to do what Zoro did?"
You're wasting my time, saying usopp has no effect on the fight is the stupidest thing you've said so far
"Straining face?"
Yes….. It shows a character is trying hard, but don't think you're in a good position. Just how you are telling me to prove they were trying, why don't you try provong they weren't trying. You will find it is alot harder
Seriously, is that supposed to better your arguement? The proof is not useful… when trying to argue that Luffy and Zoro have been stated 100% by Oda to be equal. 100%... no less. He hasn't yet... so quit speculating.
The data book proves it, the manga proves it (WHISKEY PEAK FIGHT) constantly hints towards it.
If you don't bring anything new to the table, you won't be getting any proper answers from me anymore. All you do is ignore facts and make up your own and then saying people who read the read book speculate
I'm argueing that the proof you have is weak, not Luffy is stronger than Zoro. The proof you have is weak, and others… like the chart are in the past, before asura and gear 2.
Eugh, does it matter? It's not like in the end they fight in some final battle!
The data book proves it, the manga proves it (WHISKEY PEAK FIGHT) constantly hints towards it.
Try to understand. That chart is history now and Whiskey Peak battle happened in the past. Those "facts" don't matter anymore.
@Impel:
Eugh, does it matter? It's not like in the end they fight in some final battle!
Common thing in a lot of Shonen Manga. Don't say that so lightly.
**asura? asura is just a techinque he uses just like lion song.**He didn't go through any drastic enhancements like gears.are you gonna rely on an ambiguous and old data book forever?
Are you for real, take that Zoro out of your avatar!…...What ever the author says in the past stays into play until new info is brought up. In this case Luffy and Zoro are equals until One piece yellow comes out in April. They are equals until then.
Now Zoro is arguably stronger then Luffy.
Wow gears???? are you kidding me…........Gear 2nd is just like soru, Zoro just walked all over a soru user(2 in fact). Zoro had no problem with soru. Now Gear 3 Luffy is slow ass hell. Zoro Asura will trun his ass into mist as well. How will luffy defend him self agaisnt Zoro??
Zoro has display the strongest abilitys on the SH crew.
@$abZ:
They may have progressed at different rates. Luffy has faught harder opponants which means he's gained more out of his fights. Plus, we don't know the difference between Gear 2 and Asura… so OIP and the rest of you, stop dwelling on past records.
Luffy has NOT fought the harder opponents, I don't know where you got that from. Luffy's gear is nothing more than Soru, something Zoro has already dismissed.
You have yet to prove to me why you think Luffy is stronger?
@Final:
Are you for real
I think the same thing whenever I read your posts.
I think the same thing whenever I read your posts.
Yea I am…....are you going to ingnore my post just like you ingnored Oda telling us luffy and Zoro are equals??
@AD-HD:
I agree with $abZ, as usual.
That chart is history.
Well if that chart is "history" from the Data book, then so is your Shanks and Hawkeye's being RIVALS!!!!
Since Shanks is a swordsman, Hawkeye's is SUPERIOR to Shanks.
Translation: Hawkeye's will kick the @#$^&* out of Shanks!
From the Douroki readings, Lucchi is ~ 4000 and Kaku is only about ~ 2200. So yes he has fought stronger opponents.
Also, the past is the past. Zoro and Luffy being equal in the red data book does not hold water anymore. Its not like is a definite fact. A definite fact is like [water is made up of 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen atom], this will never change. The data on zoro and luffy's strength has definitely changed since the red data book. The red data book just states that at the time it came out, Luffy and Zoro had equal strength characteristics.
In OP, the Sh crew grow at such a fast rate, you cannot depend on past data pertaining to physical attributes to rate their current abilities. There is way to say whether one is stronger than the other currently, or whether they are equal, ALL is just speculation.
If the yellow book comes out and states that luffy is stronger than zoro, then at that point luffy is stronger than zoro, but 2 arcs down the line, that data doesnt hold water.
Oda doesnt say anything because he wants these types of debates to go on, its what keeps the story interesting to people. It would make no sense for him to keep publishing character attributes every time they learn a new ability.
Is this one of those Zoro vs. Luffy things again?
Well if that chart is history from the Data book, then so is your Shanks and Hawkeye's being RIVALS!!!!
Since Shanks is a swordsman Hawkeye's is SUPERIOR to Shanks.
Translation: Hawkeye's will kick the @#$^&* out of Shanks!
Hahahahhahahaha. You are angry mood today. I can picture that while you wrote that, you drinked Mountain Dew and ated some nachos.
But seriously, that chart information has gotten old. Both of them are stronger than they were.
@AD-HD:
Hahahahhahahaha. You are angry mood today. I can picture that while you wrote that, you drinked Mountain Dew and ated some nachos.
But seriously, that chart information has gotten old. Both of them are stronger than they were.
I don't drink soda, nor do I eat crappy Nachos!
Seriously if that chart has gotten old so is the Shanks being able to rival Mihawk!!!
Mihawk is STRONGER than your Emperor Shanks!!!!
@VL7:
Is this one of those Zoro vs. Luffy things again?
No. It's people claiming speculation as fact. It would be fact if there was direct evidence supporting the claim, but there isn't.
The only people making claims are Phenomenol, Oneinchpunch, and Final End. They don't understand the difference between fact and speculation. They refuse to accept that Oda has never stated who would win in a fight or if they would draw (a victor has never been shown or said). It's as simple as that.
@Final:
Are you for real, take that Zoro out of your avatar!…...What ever the author says in the past stays into play until new info is brought up. In this case Luffy and Zoro are equals until One piece yellow comes out in April. They are equals until then.
Now Zoro is arguably stronger then Luffy.
Wow gears???? are you kidding me…........Gear 2nd is just like soru, Zoro just walked all over a soru user(2 in fact). Zoro had no problem with soru. Now Gear 3 Luffy is slow ass hell. Zoro Asura will trun his ass into mist as well. How will luffy defend him self agaisnt Zoro??
Zoro has display the strongest abilitys on the SH crew.
This is officially the most bias and fanboyish post I've ever read
No. It's people claiming speculation as fact. It would be fact if there was direct evidence supporting the claim, but there isn't.
The only people making claims are Phenomenol, Oneinchpunch, and Final End. They don't understand the difference between fact and speculation. They refuse to accept that Oda has never stated who would win in a fight or if they would draw (a victor has never been shown or said). It's as simple as that.
LOL Data book son, Luffy and Zoro both have 6 for strength. 6 = 6
@ Jack
thats what I thought. they are equals if you dismiss the data book then Zoro is arguably stronger then Luffy.
LOL Data book son, Luffy and Zoro both have 6 for strength. 6 = 6
That is old information. And so is battle in Whiskey Peak.
Things have changed.
@Final:
LOL Data book son, Luffy and Zoro both have 6 for strength. 6 = 6
@ Jack
thats what I thought. they are equals if you dismiss the data book then Zoro is arguably stronger then Luffy.
A victor has never been shown or said. Show me where Oda has declared a winner or draw between Zoro and Luffy?
The closest evidence was their prematurely ended fight at Whiskey Peak, where no ending was shown at all.
A victor has never been shown or said. Simple as that. Accept it, "son".
@AD-HD:
That is old information. And so is battle in Whiskey Peak.
Things have changed.
Then Hawkeyes is stronger then your Yonkou Shanks.
Data book says they both have six for strength, they are equals.
6 = 6 son.
The whiskey peak fight ended with nami knocking them out! how can anybody take that seriously?
I don't drink soda, nor do I eat crappy Nachos!
Seriously if that chart has gotten old so is the Shanks being able to rival Mihawk!!!
Mihawk is STRONGER than your Emperor Shanks!!!!
Thats another speculation. Frankly speculation is what makes this forum go round. It's also what keeps me entertained while im working.
Now a reasonable person would say, the statement that Shanks being a rival to Mihawk is old, but that doesnt give light on the current situation. Who knows, he may even be stronger than Mihawk, equal to Mihawk, or weaker than Mihawk. No, im not saying that Shanks is stronger than Mihawk, I'm saying we dont know anything at this point other than what we want to be true.
[EDIT] My final stance is that currently we dont know who is stronger between Luffy or Zoro, or Shanks and Mihawk.
From the latest data, I'll accept that oda considered Luffy and Zoro on the same level when the Red book was published.
I'll also accept that Mihawk and Shanks were rivals but Mihawk may of had the edge since he was considered the best swordsman.
But currently all of that doesnt mean anything. We just dont know!!! Anyone who is making a strong stance that one is stronger than the other, or equal or whatever, is just their opinion.
The whiskey peak fought ended with nami knocking them out! how can anybody take that seriously?
I wonder same thing.
Then Hawkeyes is stronger then your Yonkou Shanks.
Data book says they both have six for strength, they are equals.
6 = 6
That is completely differend case and you should know that.
@Radical:
The whiskey peak fight ended with nami knocking them out! how can anybody take that seriously?
Obviously Nami is more powerful than both of them combined :wassat:
Thats another speculation. Frankly speculation is what makes this forum go round. It's also what keeps me entertained while im working.
Now a reasonable person would say, the statement that Shanks being a rival to Mihawk is old, but that doesnt give light on the current situation. Who knows, he may even be stronger than Mihawk, equal to Mihawk, or weaker than Mihawk. No, im not saying that Shanks is stronger than Mihawk, I'm saying we dont know anything at this point other than what we want to be true.
"OLD" Data Book information…......LITERAL translation............
本来左ききであるシャンクスはかつて、右の腰に長剣を携えていた。 ミホークとライバルだった過去からみて も、その剣の実力は世界でもトップクラスだ ったのだろう
Shanks, who is naturally left-handed, once held his long sword on his right hip. Even looking from the past where he and Mihawk were rivals, that sword's skill/power was the top class in the world.
Hawkeye's is STRONGER than Shanks!!!!
Gear 2nd is another soru is the most ridculous thing Ive ever heard.Luffy kept up with lucchi's soru without gear 2nd who is way superior to the other cp9 strength and roukishi wise.
I don't drink soda, nor do I eat crappy Nachos!
Seriously if that chart has gotten old so is the Shanks being able to rival Mihawk!!!
Mihawk is STRONGER than your Emperor Shanks!!!!
Hahaha I love this, time to play their game.
Where in the red book does it say "these stats are only for the older arcs" eh?
It doesn't say anything like that for all you lot know it could be permanent stats, showing the straw hats fighting level ability.
If you dismiss the red books 6=6 you are also dismissing anything else written in that book.
@AD-HD:
That is completely differend case and you should know that.
No its from the data book, you dismiss the data book because it "Old Info" right?
Then Mihawk is stronger then Shanks because it is stated in the manga that "Mihawk is above all swordsman" and Shanks is a swordsman.
Who you going to agree with now??
Obviously Nami is more powerful than both of them combined :wassat:
It was the fist of love, duh. Nothing beats that.
Somebody give me valid proof that Luffy = Zoro after asura and gear 2 / 3.
If you can't, you fail.
I don't care if Mihawk is stronger than Shanks. I don't care at all.
Shanks still is living much better life and that is what matters.
Now, please continue.
how do guys even know that data book wasn't talking about base luffy?
theres so much factors coming into to play to rely on just as number
Somebody give me valid proof that those stats aren't permanent, What? There isn't any? Why? That's simple there is no mention of them changing therefore they are true until changed.
Somebody give me valid proof that those stats aren't permanent, What? There isn't any? Why? That's simple there is no mention of them changing therefore they are true until changed.
Lol, as if Oda would give final stats away. You'd be a complete idiot to believe that. Do you believe that?
@Radical:
Gear 2nd is another soru is the most ridculous thing Ive ever heard.Luffy kept up with lucchi's soru without gear 2nd who is way superior to the other cp9 strength and roukishi wise.
So what are you trying to say?? Luffy will beat Zoro with a recycled move like soru?? you know Zoro beat kaku a soru user, Zoro will beat lucci as well, so what is your point??
zoro is arguably stronger then Luffy.
But going by the data book they are equals until One piece yellow comes out in April.
@Final:
So what are you trying to say?? Luffy will beat Zoro with a recycled move like soru?? you know Zoro beat kaku a soru user, Zoro will beat lucci as well, so what is your point??
zoro is arguably stronger then Luffy.
But going by the data book they are equals until One piece yellow comes out in April.
LOl yeah zoro defeated a soru user and that automatically means he can beat lucchi.Franky can beat lucchi to sinice he beat fukuro and nero who also knows soru
@$abZ:
Lol, as if Oda would give final stats away. You'd be a complete idiot to believe that. Do you believe that?
All I believe is what's written in that book, you enjoy thinking ahead with those theories of yours. Since nothing gets through to you I'll leave you with this.
Wait for the yellow book
@Radical:
LOl yeah zoro defeated a soru user and that automatically means he can beat lucchi.Franky can beat lucchi to sinice he beat fukuro and nero who also knows soru
Zoro actually blocked soru moves he never lost track of kaku, I don't remember franky doing that.