@--MRED--:
Like getting hit with a nerf bat
Yes, like getting hit by a nerf bat.
@--MRED--:
Like getting hit with a nerf bat
Yes, like getting hit by a nerf bat.
that was a pretty good analogy right there
thirty internets to MRED
Saying your attacking idea and not people may soften the blow, but they are still being attacked.
I agree…please don't attack people's ideas here. This isn't a debate thread or criticize each other's beliefs thread. If you think somebody's belief is "stupid as fuck", good for you, but this isn't a thread for you.
@--MRED--:
So even though something has more evidence on something that MIGHT have happen, how do you know the evidence you're looking at indeed supports just 1 ideal?
Evolution happens, that is fact. The only doubts about evolution lie in its exact mechanics and the exact paths of our evolutionary history.
Now if the evidence support two or more mutually exclusive theories, you tend to discard the one that makes the most assumptions. And for the record, the idea of an omni-everything being does make a shit-load of assumptions.
@--MRED--:
That Even attacking the beliefs of others can be seen has hateful
That should not exclude those ideas from critical scrutiny. Personally, I welcome the possibility of being proven wrong.
@--MRED--:
keyword there, and Comfort is not the reason why my beliefs changed so drastically
Well, comfort is hardly the only reason people turn to faith. I would argue that most religious people simply believe in stuff because that is what their parents told them. This is because we're actually hardwired to believe that everything our parents tell us is the truth (we don't actually begin to critically analyse things until we reach our teens). Though I wouldn't dare to speculate on what your reasons were/are.
The reason I mentioned comfort is simply because it bothers me that a lot of people apparentely can't tell the difference between what's comforting and what's true.
@--MRED--:
Assume, thats the keyword right there, Everything as humans think are based upon things we either know or assume, it can change in a instant, our senses also fool us, there is no denying that
And calling my argument absurb seems to be a bit unreasonable, there is no evidence against my claim, nor for it if anything you can call it Faith if you will
actually scratch that, i'll just assume that you think Faith is absurd aswell
I don't call faith itself absurd, merely unsubstanciated. And your claim is absurd simply because it makes a shit-load of assumptions without any evidence to back it up.
@--MRED--:
i love arguments
I don't mind a good argument myself, though I sometimes lack the attention span to see them through to the end…
I agree…please don't attack people's ideas here. This isn't a debate thread or criticize each other's beliefs thread. If you think somebody's belief is "stupid as fuck", good for you, but this isn't a thread for you.
How are you supposed to have any sort of meaningful conversation if everybody just agrees with eachother?
How are you supposed to have any sort of meaningful conversation if everybody just agrees with eachother?
If you've read this whole thread, most people have been discussing without agreeing with one another, but everyone's been polite and respectful. This is a sensitive subject, and I warned after the thread was started that if it starts to get ugly, it will be locked. I've been in these threads enough over 10 years to know what kind of comments start degenerating the thread.
AP isn't a philosophy forum. If you want to get into in-depth philosophical debates, there's better places for it.
I don't have any problem with challenging ideas, your last post was fine, please just don't set off people's tempers with comments you know will offend people.
Well, comfort is hardly the only reason people turn to faith. I would argue that most religious people simply believe in stuff because that is what their parents told them. This is because we're actually hardwired to believe that everything our parents tell us is the truth (we don't actually begin to critically analyse things until we reach our teens). Though I wouldn't dare to speculate on what your reasons were/are.
I wasn't raised Christian, but when I began to critically think in my teens I chose to believe it. ;)
@--MRED--:
Like getting hit with a nerf bat
so your hitting someone with something that doesn't or shouldn't hurt them therefore making it alright
you guys didn't seriously just say that its wrong to critisize others opinions and beliefs? please tell me you didn't just say that.
so your hitting someone with something that doesn't or shouldn't hurt them therefore making it alright
you guys didn't seriously just say that its wrong to critisize others opinions and beliefs? please tell me you didn't just say that.
If someone who I didn't know just ran up to me and started wailing on me with a nerf bat I'd still think he was an asshole that shouldn't be allowed to run around on the streets.
And spitting on people doesn't actually hurt either, but is that alright?
And nobody said it's wrong to criticize other's beliefs, it's wrong to ATTACK and INSULT other's beliefs.
If someone who I didn't know just ran up to me and started wailing on me with a nerf bat I'd still think he was an asshole that shouldn't be allowed to run around on the streets.
And nobody said it's wrong to criticize other's beliefs, it's wrong to ATTACK and INSULT other's beliefs.
1 spitting and nerf bats is different because the spit stays where it lands
and that bolded part is fucking hilarious
and that second part is wrong because attacking someones beliefs is the same as negative criticizm.
1 spitting and nerf bats is different because the spit stays where it lands
OK, so hitting someone with a nerf bat is ok, but if they put a piece of tape on it and stuck it to someone's butt, that would be wrong?
No spitting is wrong because it's disrespectful. And hitting someone without having any good reason is mean and stupid.
and that second part is wrong because attacking someones beliefs is the same as negative criticizm.
Apparently you don't know the difference between fair criticism and just attacking something to just to piss someone off.
Just like there's a difference between running and kicking someone and kicking in a match of sportsmanship, or self defense.
why oh why did I get back into the topic when it was overflowing with bad metaphors sigh
why oh why did I get back into the topic when it was overflowing with bad metaphors sigh
Way to avoid answering the question ^^b
Enough of this off-topic banter anyway. If you either have nothing positive at all to contribute to the topic, or just don't like it, please ignore it.
So I don't know what everyone else is or isn't celebrating this time of the season. But I have to say I really feel the entirety of faith has been removed from the holiday season of December.
I don't know.. Christmas isn't about Jesus anymore, it has become a celebration of Santa Clause and gifts. Hannukah seems to be going down the same path, as my Jewish friends all tell me none of them celebrate it anymore, they just exchange gifts. I don't know anyone that celebrates Kwanza, so I appologize if this assessment doesn't apply to them.
It's kind of like how they say (at least I've heard it) after a certain age, there really isn't a point in celebrating someones birthday. Then again maybe the only people who say that are angry no one celebrates their birthday. But either way I see this being applied to Christmas in a way, since 2000 is apparently the year where people have chosen to stop celebrating his birthday.
Christmas to me has always been more about people getting together and having a good time so that really doesn't bug me.
Everyone likes Christmas so I don't see the point of people bitching at why.
Cosmic, your above few posts made me laugh. thanks ^_^
Lets get some good conversation going here. Where's polygon?
You said you were muslim, right? I wanna learn something about muslims. I'm pretty naive here. Do muslims wear turbans? (or am I getting you confused with something else?) can you tell me something about them? why you wear them? what do they represent?
Cosmic, your above few posts made me laugh. thanks ^_^
Lets get some good conversation going here. Where's polygon?
You said you were muslim, right? I wanna learn something about muslims. I'm pretty naive here. Do muslims wear turbans? (or am I getting you confused with something else?) can you tell me something about them? why you wear them? what do they represent?
Women are supposed to wear turbans. They're supposed to cover everything bu their eyes (called a hijab), but most don't do that anymore. You're supposed to wear them in front of men who aren't direct relatives or aren't really close to you (such as your husband). It's worn to prevent impure thoughts from others.
thats funny because I always thought hiding something was the fastest way to make someone want it even more…..
oh well
thats funny because I always thought hiding something was the fastest way to make someone want it even more…..
oh well
Not to mention, its kinda demeaning to shape your wardrobe at perceived unwanted attention from others.
And kind of demeaning that it assumes men can't even see skin without wacky lusting.
But I'll stop there.
On Gaia I'll go all the way. But here that would be like shitting where I eat.
lol
I completely forgot about these pages till now
these 2 pages completely sum up my view on Organized Religon
Cosmic, your above few posts made me laugh. thanks ^_^
Lets get some good conversation going here. Where's polygon?
You said you were muslim, right? I wanna learn something about muslims. I'm pretty naive here. Do muslims wear turbans? (or am I getting you confused with something else?) can you tell me something about them? why you wear them? what do they represent?
Unless Polgon want's to, I'll take part of that question. I am muslim too.
Turbans are clothing. It is worn differently depending on the region. It is sometimes worn in India by Hindus (Who aren't muslim) and other people. It was not common amongst the Turkish, but it was popularized by Ottoman sultans. For Arabs, loosing a turban is very humiliating. Like most people, they will be upset if you were to knock their turban off.
One of the reasons we wear it is because it has always been in Islamic tradition. It is a spiritual element of the cultural faith. Muslims also wear a similar (but worn differently) cloth called the keffiyeh. You may have seen these worn by leaders of muslim countries–especially Saudi's. The keffiyeh is normally red with a white checkered design. Shi'aa Muslims (Another sect) tend to prefer turbans. Black-Turbans are worn to show you are a sayyid (A descendent of the Prophet, Muhammad).
I was told that the custom of women covering their heads was more of a cultural thing than religious, and that it's not actually mentioned in the Qu'ran, but this could be wrong.
So I don't know what everyone else is or isn't celebrating this time of the season. But I have to say I really feel the entirety of faith has been removed from the holiday season of December.
I don't know.. Christmas isn't about Jesus anymore, it has become a celebration of Santa Clause and gifts. Hannukah seems to be going down the same path, as my Jewish friends all tell me none of them celebrate it anymore, they just exchange gifts. I don't know anyone that celebrates Kwanza, so I appologize if this assessment doesn't apply to them.
Yeah…the holiday has become totally commericialized, combined with all the PC-ness going around trying to remove the word "Christ" and people getting offended if you say Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays.
The whole holiday is realy bizarre if you think about it. This year in particular I've been questioning the whole thing, thinking "why do we decorate our houses with lights, and put this dead tree in our house and decorate it, and go putting ourselves in debt buying gifts"
It's all really stupid. I try to focus on the Christian aspect of it, but it's hard not to see Christmas as just a crazy secular holiday. I'm more apt to celebrate Easter sincerely, especially since that was the day I originally accepted Christ, so it's special.
And of course, we all know Christmas really isn't the birth of Jesus, it was just decided on that date to replace some pagan holidays.
I still enjoy Christmas, I just am really saddened at how commercialized it's become. Instead of being joyful and close with friends and family like it's supposed to be, it became more of a time when everyone is stressed out and crazy. It's particularly hard when your family has split up.
1 spitting and nerf bats is different because the spit stays where it lands
and that bolded part is fucking hilarious
and that second part is wrong because attacking someones beliefs is the same as negative criticizm.
okay let me sum this up
Your beliefs are fucking stupid, but i like you
thats kinda like saying
Your mother is a big fat whore, but you aren't so its cool
Beliefs just aren't the gods you worship, its your ideals, the way you look at life
If you honestly think that the people who choose to believe in things HAVEN'T THOUGHT OF HOW BELIEVABLE IT IS TO OTHERS is really iggnorant, i don't want to turn this into a flame war, but if you don't see how its offensive then well, =/
Actually, CosmicDebris, Women wearing "turbans" is part of the religion. Also, in Islam, we believe humans won the favor of God because we choose to be good (Even though we can be evil). So, a woman who gives up looking cute in public is choosing to obey God's will.
psst MRED, if you egnore him, it's like he's not there at all. ;)
"I believe that since I can't see anybody who is posting here, that the messages are all coming from cybermen and other android like beings" good, eh. :)
Ok, so I got some responce on the turban thing. See, I learned something new. Ok, so Turban's arn't a muslim thing, they are an Indian/Hindu thing. And it isn't a religios thing, it is a cultural thing. Do I have that right?
Does an individual have different turbans, or just one. (if several, do you pick which ever you feel like wearing for the day) Do different colors represent different things? (someone menchioned black means decendant of mohamad (sp))
And no, I've never seen a checkered turban?
This is an example of a red-checkered turban (keffiyeh):
As for what color, it is almost entirely a cultural thing. I myslef have green, brown, and even white-checkered turbans and I wear them often during important religious events (But again, it is almost entirely cultural for men, and not necessarily required). The "black" turban is something that is sometimes worn by Shi'aa muslims.
@--MRED--:
okay let me sum this up
Your beliefs are fucking stupid, but i like you
thats kinda like saying
Your mother is a big fat whore, but you aren't so its cool
Beliefs just aren't the gods you worship, its your ideals, the way you look at life
yes but in this thread we aren't talking about all those other beliefs we are talking about 1, ideals and that stuff isn't the topic here.
(people say that 1st thing to me all the time, doesn't really phase me so I don't see the problem)
If I find a belief to be fucking stupid than I will say so but people here are behind their beliefs 100% (at least they appear to be), so that'd be an exercise in futility and I also know that everyones opinions are equally important in most cases (and that they probably believe in their own opinions moreso than those of others, because thats human nature)
and in closing
Your mother is a big fat whore, but you aren't so its cool
this is completely different because one is a belief but if someones mother really is heavy set and has sex frequently with lots of people then this would be a fact, and if they weren't then it'd be a lie.
a Belief can not be true or a lie until its proven, so if you'd kindly wait to see if I ressurect then I can tell you….....or not.
oh, those are turbans…
ok, well what about these then? :)
!
captain usopp, they are turbans…!
Those guys look arab too, but interestingly, they wear them like Indians. Hmm...
@Masta:
Actually, CosmicDebris, Women wearing "turbans" is part of the religion.
Well, that just goes to show that you never know where people get their information. Of course, I'm just taking your word for it too, since I know little about Islam as a religion.
Also, in Islam, we believe humans won the favor of God because we choose to be good (Even though we can be evil). So, a woman who gives up looking cute in public is choosing to obey God's will.
It's true that all humans are capable of choosing good or evil. However, it's hard to define what is considered really a moral good. Some things are easy, like murder and lies. But on the issue of clothing, it's very cultural.
If one culture says not covering heads is immoral, is that immoral for another who never practiced this custom?
In Christianity, just as an example in contrast, nobody is capable of being completely good except by the grace of God and we aren't capable of winning God's favor by works in our own flesh. There is a passage in Galatians where Paul is trying to solve a dispute between people who feel that certain dietary practices needed to be kept to be holy. Paul says that such a matter isn't all that important - the Kingdom of God is not meat nor drink, but righteousness, peace and joy. Instead of arguing about it, that the person who thinks he can eat whatever he wants shouldn't brag, but respect the person who thinks he needs to abstain, and in return he shouldn't try to force the other to follow his practices. But he says the person who feels he needs to abstain is the one who is weak in the faith and the other guy without a guilty conscience is the one who is mature.
see clothing is one of those beliefs that I just don't understand, along with different religons having something against certain forms of meat
If my attire and diet will end up determining where I end up then…...:blink:
a Belief can not be true or a lie until its proven, so if you'd kindly wait to see if I ressurect then I can tell you….....or not.
Then whats the point of even insulting a person's belief if you can't even prove them wrong?
See
you just either contradicted yourself, or just solved this whole problem
I don't attack belief
I point out that right now all the knowledge and science and math we have at our dissposal prove most of the stuff in the bible to be not true, then I usually get attacked by high strung religous people.
I don't attack belief
I point out that right now all the knowledge and science and math we have at our dissposal prove most of the stuff in the bible to be not true, then I usually get attacked by high strung religous people.
…
I have no clue how to respond to this
without this turning into a flamewar of some kind
or a 10+ page essay
I think i am going to take up Captain ussop's advice
I don't attack belief
I point out that right now all the knowledge and science and math we have at our dissposal prove most of the stuff in the bible to be not true, then I usually get attacked by high strung religous people.
I don't want to sound too special for this, but many of the new things being discovered by science in the 21st century is confirmed by the Quraan (Which was written over 800 years ago).
Just a little somthing to think about.
Also Cosmic, I think I see what your point is. People can choose what they are going to do, but shouldn't go around bragging about the choices they make. Or, did I misinterpret your post…?
I just picked the one book that people are mostly crazy about on the internet thats all
and some examples of stuff in it are.
1. The fact that they Jewish peoples 40 years of walking the desert left 0 archeological evidence of the fact that they were there
2. Noah's arc (and the people that believe it to be true, as in the entire story actually happened)
3. Moses and the Red Sea
and
the Ressurection to name a few (which is also the basis for a new testament in the 1st place)
see clothing is one of those beliefs that I just don't understand, along with different religons having something against certain forms of meat
Actually that is one of the best things religion has provided for the populace. You may not understand, or see it, but if you eat nothing but pork for example, your arteries will clog and you will die.
Through experience and observation, people realized over 3000 years ago that certain diets are bad for you. This is why for example Christians are supposed to fast on Wednesdays and Fridays, to get a break from meat, and have some fish in their diet.
also, people used to only eat meat once a year in some cases, other times even more rarely due to the fact that there was no way to preserve the meat and because the only way to acquire meat was to kill your own livestock and kill your source of milk/wool/eggs etc. So you prefered not to have meat and to have all those other things instead.
Regardless of what you think about religion, culturally religion has done a lot of good for humanity. Politically on the other hand it has done a lot of wrong (but that is the fault of the kings whos sons were split between being heirs and future popes in order to keep the power within the bloodline, so you really shouldn't blame religion for that, you should blame the rich powerful kings who asked their brothers (literally) to bless their holy wars and gain massive amount of wealth in the process).
2. Noah's arc (and the people that believe it to be true, as in the entire story actually happened)
It is geological fact that various floods took place during the history of man. In fact almost all ancient cultures have a "great flood that wipes out the world" story, proving it was a factual occurence. The story of some whacko building a ship and putting all the animals in his farm in that boat is not so crazy; the only difference is it probably wasn't as many animals as the story claims and the boat was not as grand as the story claims.
well duh if you eat nothing but one thing your going to die or get seriously sick.
the same could be said about most foods, but saying its a mortal sin =/= warning people about it and the potential dangers and letting them decide.
@Masta:
Also Cosmic, I think I see what your point is. People can choose what they are going to do, but shouldn't go around bragging about the choices they make. Or, did I misinterpret your post…?
Well, that's one point - Jesus had a really big problem with the Pharisees because they went around bragging about how righteous they were by following the law to a ridiculous degree - yet he said they were like white-washed tombs, because their motives in their hearts were evil, and it's what comes from the inside, the evil thoughts and desires of mankind that makes us unclean, no matter how much one tries to appear holy on the outside.
Basically, if women feel they are pleasing God by wearing certain kinds of clothes, more power too them. The reason why I gave that example about the dietary practices is that it was saying that you should do what you feel pleases God, but on the other hand, don't force that on to other people who don't believe the same way.
There's even some sects of Christianity that have a similar belief about head coverings because of a certain passage in the bible, I once got in a little argument with someone about that. Because I don't believe that God is really that concerned with outward appearances to please him. But this is my belief based on the bible, not the Qu'ran. There's a lot of differences ^^
@Masta:
I don't want to sound too special for this, but many of the new things being discovered by science in the 21st century is confirmed by the Quraan (Which was written over 800 years ago).
Just a little somthing to think about.
**This is indeed true. One example is that, in the Quran, it mentions accuratley step by step how the human embryo changes shape, pretty accuratley I might add. It aslo describes the mountains as pegs embedded into the earth, which is true.
Another interesting quote from the Quran is "An Arab son will awaken a fearsome Eagle"
Cosmic: The act of covering yourself with hijab is not meant to be forced As far as I know.**
Well, that's one point - Jesus had a really big problem with the Pharisees because they went around bragging about how righteous they were by following the law to a ridiculous degree - yet he said they were like white-washed tombs, because their motives in their hearts were evil, and it's what comes from the inside, the evil thoughts and desires of mankind that makes us unclean, no matter how much one tries to appear holy on the outside.
Basically, if women feel they are pleasing God by wearing certain kinds of clothes, more power too them. The reason why I gave that example about the dietary practices is that it was saying that you should do what you feel pleases God, but on the other hand, don't force that on to other people who don't believe the same way.
There's even some sects of Christianity that have a similar belief about head coverings because of a certain passage in the bible, I once got in a little argument with someone about that. Because I don't believe that God is really that concerned with outward appearances to please him. But this is my belief based on the bible, not the Qu'ran. There's a lot of differences ^^
Cool, I respect that. I haven't had an intelligent religious conversation in a while. Thanks.
It is geological fact that various floods took place during the history of man. In fact almost all ancient cultures have a "great flood that wipes out the world" story, proving it was a factual occurence. The story of some whacko building a ship and putting all the animals in his farm in that boat is not so crazy; the only difference is it probably wasn't as many animals as the story claims and the boat was not as grand as the story claims.
I love it when people jump on these stories to try and defend them by toning them down, so the story was a guy saved his herd from a storm and a river, wheres the miracle? isn't the point of a miracle to be stupendous if you going to knock down the story then aren't you also knocking down the faith you have in the story?
How does what I said constitute my believing Noah's Ark is a miracle? All I said is that "geologically" massive life threatening floods were factual, I never once said God sent them to kill the bad people, nor a sane person made a boat to survive one. I even called Noah a "whacko" jeez.
On a lighter note, I just watched 60 minutes, and there was a geneticist that said that "spiritual people" have a certain gene that lets them have this. This doesn't apply to Christians/Muslims etc, but rather people that believe there is some kind of spiritual world, and in fact believe in something very deeply, not religiously. He also noted, if we weren't meant to have this gene, evolution would have wiped it out.
So.. guess even science is pro spirituality now :p
On a lighter note, I just watched 60 minutes, and there was a geneticist that said that "spiritual people" have a certain gene that lets them have this. This doesn't apply to Christians/Muslims etc, but rather people that believe there is some kind of spiritual world, and in fact believe in something very deeply, not religiously. He also noted, if we weren't meant to have this gene, evolution would have wiped it out.
So.. guess even science is pro spirituality now :p
anyone else find this laugh out loud funny?
anyone else find this laugh out loud funny?
I did. I found it odd but I'm not saying it's absolute donkey poop. One scientist and that automatically means the entire wrold of knowledge agrees? Blargh, we must experiment!
I'm not really religious but I am going to Buddhist scripture at highschool because… I feel like it. I DO NOT believe in a big guy sitting on a lilly pad, I DO NOT believe in things like Jesus healing a blind man but I DO believe in things like "Love thy neighbour" and "Don't be a dick".
I have my view on religion:
God or his equivalent will not mind if you stray from him/her/it as long as you ask for forgiveness and genuinely ask for it.
If God or his equivalent disagree then he could simply discuss it with me and anyone else and reach a good conclusion.
If God or his equivalent is not omnipotent but still damn powerful then same as the first thing I said.
God or his equivalent will not wreak havoc and send us all to hell for not going to church/temples/synagogues. I think of church as something people do to get closer to God or his equivalent in a certain way.
If God is a dick and not omnipotent then I'm pretty confident people could overthrow him.
Purgatory-like things would be a good idea. If you were bad then you are put through a mini-hell then sent to heaven.
If God is a dick and is omnipotent then are all screwed.
I think we can learn a lot of interesting things about religion by examining the sociopolitical context in which it evolves. This is a particularly interest bit:
There is a passage in Galatians where Paul is trying to solve a dispute between people who feel that certain dietary practices needed to be kept to be holy.
During the early days of Christianity, there was a lot of controversy over whether Jesus' message was only meant for the Jews, or whether others could also receive the salvation– most importantly, people were wondering if they would have to be circumcized. (A lot of early converts to Christianity were.) I think this passage is probably along the same lines-- Paul's disowning traditional Jewish practices and rule-based religion to show that Christianity can be for everyone.
What makes it most interesting is that that particular idea that faith comes from the heart rather than practices is actually traceable to the particular Jewish sect that was responsible for most of Deuteronomy, where you find the verse "circumcize the foreskin of your heart", which, besides being rather amusing (cough) is a forerunnner of a lot of the internalized-faith elements that people consider to be original to Christianity.
Well, I think it's nifty.
It's also a lot of fun to read about Arians and Manicheans and the decisions of Nicea (sp?), and look at how different Christianity could have been, even way before Luther, despite its basis in the same holy book.
I really do believe God is a megamyth, and a really intriguing one; it behooves everyone to find out where their beliefs originated, what their history is, and what dangers and possibilities are opened through them– especially in this era where God has become, it seems, everyone's ammunition instead of a site of examination and contemplation. We're turning religion into a tool and a token, and it is deadly.
^ that post kicks ass.
wow.
I think we can learn a lot of interesting things about religion by examining the sociopolitical context in which it evolves. This is a particularly interest bit:
During the early days of Christianity, there was a lot of controversy over whether Jesus' message was only meant for the Jews, or whether others could also receive the salvation– most importantly, people were wondering if they would have to be circumcized. (A lot of early converts to Christianity were.) I think this passage is probably along the same lines-- Paul's disowning traditional Jewish practices and rule-based religion to show that Christianity can be for everyone.
What makes it most interesting is that that particular idea that faith comes from the heart rather than practices is actually traceable to the particular Jewish sect that was responsible for most of Deuteronomy, where you find the verse "circumcize the foreskin of your heart", which, besides being rather amusing (cough) is a forerunnner of a lot of the internalized-faith elements that people consider to be original to Christianity.
Well, I think it's nifty.
It's also a lot of fun to read about Arians and Manicheans and the decisions of Nicea (sp?), and look at how different Christianity could have been, even way before Luther, despite its basis in the same holy book.
I really do believe God is a megamyth, and a really intriguing one; it behooves everyone to find out where their beliefs originated, what their history is, and what dangers and possibilities are opened through them– especially in this era where God has become, it seems, everyone's ammunition instead of a site of examination and contemplation. We're turning religion into a tool and a token, and it is deadly.
claps
(16 Stuff, lots of stuff)
Yes, it is an excellent post. ^^
.
What makes it most interesting is that that particular idea that faith comes from the heart rather than practices is actually traceable to the particular Jewish sect that was responsible for most of Deuteronomy, where you find the verse "circumcize the foreskin of your heart", which, besides being rather amusing (cough) is a forerunnner of a lot of the internalized-faith elements that people consider to be original to Christianity.
There's many new testement beliefs that can be traced back to early old testament. Christianity is just an offshoot of the Jewish religion, and a lot of things that Jesus said were directly quoted from the old testament…but people overtime warped ideas. Jesus's intention was to get back to the heart of the matter of all these laws, and point out what the original intention was.
Well, I think it's nifty.
Indeed it is.
I really do believe God is a megamyth, and a really intriguing one; it behooves everyone to find out where their beliefs originated, what their history is, and what dangers and possibilities are opened through them– especially in this era where God has become, it seems, everyone's ammunition instead of a site of examination and contemplation. We're turning religion into a tool and a token, and it is deadly.
I of course believe God to be a reality, but I agree that it's wise to search out the origins of beliefs. There's a lot of different sources that will give you all kinds of conflicting information, so in the end you still have to decide which path you're going to follow. And I definately agree that it's sad and devestating that a lot of people use God as "ammunition" or a "tool".