Chapter is out at Mangabird.
Should I wait?
Kingdom
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Best chapter in a while, my favorite part:
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"Moe Moe Kyun, make it rich!" -
! Really good chapter. Nice to know Ryo Fui has some depth beyond being a greedy asshole. Hopefully Sei's justification for his path is as well written cause other he just got called the fuck out.
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! I always liked Ryofui because of his cunning smarts, so now knowing his dreams and how he wants to achieve it really adds depth to him. Part of me expects Sei to not have an answer, and that he will become king but have to rethink some things. He will probably have something to say, but I see Sei getting some development from this, which is really needed since he's been a pretty stoic character this whole time
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Is answer is smart but money can do so much and no more, if it was the solution to everything why not buy is way on the throne why use violence to finish the issue with him and Sai, money will create greed and greed will lead to envy and in the end qin will be destroyed just the same if not from the inside the states looking at their glory will only plot to take it. Money give you power but you still need might to keep it. Well this is a pot without even much thought i think Sai should do better in short is plan is too simplistic even the richest men and state need power to protect what they have if it will just be taken not everybody can be bought with money or control some people like war and turmoil and they will only surrender to the strong.
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Is answer is smart but money can do so much and no more, if it was the solution to everything why not buy is way on the throne why use violence to finish the issue with him and Sai, money will create greed and greed will lead to envy and in the end qin will be destroyed just the same if not from the inside the states looking at their glory will only plot to take it. Money give you power but you still need might to keep it. Well this is a pot without even much thought i think Sai should do better in short is plan is too simplistic even the richest men and state need power to protect what they have if it will just be taken not everybody can be bought with money or control some people like war and turmoil and they will only surrender to the strong.
It was something I was thinking too.
I see Sei being a mix of him and some of his ancestors. Sounds like many of the Kings before were all blood thirsty, ready to war whenever they felt like it. War is a long process, and many things can go wrong before you get what you wanted out of it. Ryofui is all about money, and greed would definitely become a factor. He could see all the money and decide to want more of it, screwing the people over. Assassinations would happen more frequently, because if you can lay claim to the victims treasures, you have power all of a sudden. You also have the fact that other states might give them the middle finger, and war against them to take everything.
Ryofui has some good points, but he definitely places too much trust in money, which goes quite well with how we have seen him throughout the series.
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425 Chinese scan is out.
! Shin got stabbed! Though was the dude a spy?
I recommend: Peerless Martial God, Renegade Immortal, Gourmet of Another World, Trash of the Counts Family and The Great Ruler
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425 Chinese scan is out.
! Shin got stabbed! Though was the dude a spy?
Summary by king magax of MF forums
! > Ch425: A Normal Relationship
Link:http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3652757594
Summary:
-Chapter starts with Hanoki's son killing a random guy who claims to be King Sho's distant nephew.
-The battle of Kanyou seems to be ending soon with the Qin army being stopped by Juuteki's forces and the fire within Kanyou spreading fast.
-With Juuteki giving commands to his own forces outside Kanyou, the Qin forces were unable to advance further.
-Juuteki then randomly brings up the past about his tribe getting crushed by Qin hundred of years ago and his tribe had waited for this moment of revenge since then. What he is doing now is just giving Qin a taste of their own medicine.
-Meanwhile in Kanyou, Shin got lost in the palace as he had no idea how to reach the harem. He met some random palace guards who directed them towards the harem.
-It turns out that the guards were Ryofui's men and one of them stabbed Shin when he wasn't noticing. It was actually a full ambush to kill Shin and co. as Ryofui's archers were deployed on the walls nearby. Denyuu shielded Shin with his body from the arrows.
-Back in You, Sei seems to be unable to rebut Ryofui as illusions of all he killed start to appear around him.
-After a while, Sei pointed out that Ryofui's method will not be able to eradicate all wars but Ryofui thinks that there isn't a way to end all wars. Ryofui then starts to explain the different types of warriors of in the battlefields who fought for different reasons(with scenes of the different warriors in Kanyou representing each type of warrior). He thinks that none of their reasons are wrong as they are acting based on their emotions, which is why wars can never end. Denying these emotions is the same as denying the existing of humanity and Ryofui is sure Sei, who experienced the deep hatred of the Zhao people against Qin in Kantan, is very clear about this.
-As Sei was once again plagued by his illusions, a voice and light from nowhere tells him to tell Ryofui that what he said is not true.No reply from Sei this chapter yet…
Highly doubt Denyuu is going to die here, probably just injured much like Ryuusen during the battle of Sai as we lack some sort of emotional scene to justify a death.
3DS Friend Code 1693-2056-2994
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Ryufui speech was fantastic, he laid the smackdown on Sei, if the current arc has been entertaining it was mostly because of Ryufui imo.
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! It's his last and greatest act, it better be.
! Now, I wonder if we will soon see the first shades of Qin Shi Huang is Sei…
! Consider: This is the moment history starts to take place. This is the moment Sei takes all of the most important pieces, takes power away from Ryufui, imprisons his own mother, and deals brutally with Rebels. Around this time, serious plans to conquer China are created by him, with the help of Rishi and Shoheikun.
! This is going to be interesting... -
I was going to ask which citizen in their right mind would follow riyfu after he is basically killing a city comprise of mostly innocents to gain the throne but then I remembered that only who is in both factions are aware and he is basically using sei mother along with rio ai and the other generals who is massacring the citizens to do is dirty work then put everything on them and put them to death. Honestly I am more eager to see his downfall more than sai answer.
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! The previous kings takes Sei's body! He became their instrument!
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Wonder who is peeking behind that pillar behind Ryofui. Spoiler summary doesn't mention it.
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Wonder who is peeking behind that pillar behind Ryofui. Spoiler summary doesn't mention it.
Mangajoy's released 425 so…
! It's Sei's hallucination.
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Yeah, just saw it.
Wonder what reasoning will Sei answer with.
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And 426 Chinese scan is out: http://www.mmangareader.me/kingdom-426
I recommend: Peerless Martial God, Renegade Immortal, Gourmet of Another World, Trash of the Counts Family and The Great Ruler
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And 426 Chinese scan is out: http://www.mmangareader.me/kingdom-426
And the summary courtesy of king magax of MF forums:
! > probably the laziest Kingdom chapter i've ever read….
Ch426: The Nature of Man
link: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3665535116?pn=1
Summary:
-The purple light surrounding Sei can only be seen by Rui and Sei.
-Sei starts by rebutting Ryofui, saying that his idea is unable to escape the imagination of a mere civil court official.
-He thinks that Ryo's rule will only serve to extend the chaotic era as when the other states accumulate enough wealth, wars will inevitably start again.
-He rejects Ryo's idea of "human nature" and thinks that war could end.
-He thinks the greed and violence of Man today is not their true nature. By not identifying the true nature of Man and dismissing the possibility of eliminating all violence, mankind will never progress no matter how much effort they put in and it is this exact reason that the chaos in China continued for 500 years.
-With some flashback of his days in Kantan, recycled from the past chapters, Sei says that the the true nature of Man is "Light"(wtf?).Lazy chapter but there are some interesting points here. It seems like Ryofui is a believer of "Humans are born evil"(性恶论) while Sei is a believer of "Humans are born good"(性善论).
As for the purple light, it could be from Shika, the woman who transported Sei from Zhao to Qin as her Chinese name 紫夏 literally mean "purple summer". -
I read the scanlation on Mangareader yesterday.
Not really that sold on Sei's arguments. But you can't really argue Ryofui's method with practical arguments. I like the part when he told Ryofui he's still thinking like a merchant, though.
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I think Sei is right in his counter arguments even if I believe that his goal has holes.
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If this is all his answer amounts to, I'll be disappointed. But I'm sure he has more to it. Looking forward to the verbal beatdown.
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Almost felt like the series had it's "Heart" moment.
Alright chapter overall, but nothing to really talk about.
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It's out on Batoto.
You know, historical Qin Shi Huang was far smarter then Sei…
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Man, if only they knew Japan and other European Countries would fuck they later.
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Humph. As far as the history of first empire is concerned, they manage to splendidly do the job themselfs.
Seriously. Just because one person was nice and sacrificed herself for him, it does not mean it's true nature of humanity.
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Yet ironically in the present, China does own the World and no one can lift a finger against them.
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I don't know about you guys but as far as i see it by light Sei means hope as in what keeps humans doing what they do is the light behind the darkness or some metaphorical shit like that.
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I'm expecting some Mencius stuff, because that's one of the big reasons how Shika would fit into the picture/Sei's retort and give at least me a satisfactory feeling about Sei's speech.
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That would be hillarious, since Qin Shi Huang actually banned every school of thought except for Legalism. So he would follow confucian beliefs and at the same time, enforce ban on teaching them…?
You know, Hara promised that the stuff of which there are records will happen as recorded. I'm starting to slowly doubt that.
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That's the best part, the irony will be a big "fuck you!" to all the history buffs.
I mean, that could be one of the ways for Sei to make his argument in the context of the situation. He doesn't have to mention Mencius specifically, just delve a little into that philosophy and not answer with something cliche and shonen like friendship thing.
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Yeah, but I'm afraid he will delve into that specific cliche. In many ways, Kingdom feels like a Shonen. It would not suprise me.
Still. I really hope Hara won't whitewash the ending to rebelion. It is a Seinen; this just would not feel right.
Then again, I can't say it really feels right now.
Though it might be me just being sad at Hara taking the cheap way out. I think Sei exploiting weaknesses in Ryufui's plot would be far more interesting than generic "The true nature of all humans is being good" message.
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New chapter out, what hogwash.
So Ryofui offers a solution that would greatly minimize war and strife and lead to a stable country for generations to come and Sei's response is the same argument as before just sprinkled with a lot of human idealism crap that has nothing to do with anything, never mind his solution involves sacrificing hundreds of thousands of lives BUT PEOPLES SOULS' ARE THE LIGHT!!! And everyone including Ryofui treat his non-answer as something profound…
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http://www.readmanga.today/kingdom/427/1
Seriously guys, put the damn link.
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Well, at least we know why the Qin Dynasty falls apart in only a few decades after it gets established
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Oh well it's just random bs afterall.
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Ending this chapter with Ryo fui's facepalm would have been great imo.
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@TLC:
New chapter out, what hogwash.
So Ryofui offers a solution that would greatly minimize war and strife and lead to a stable country for generations to come and Sei's response is the same argument as before just sprinkled with a lot of human idealism crap that has nothing to do with anything, never mind his solution involves sacrificing hundreds of thousands of lives BUT PEOPLES SOULS' ARE THE LIGHT!!! And everyone including Ryofui treat his non-answer as something profound…
Not really, Sei even said other factions would still attack once they built up a decent army. Plus something about "ruling through overwhelming economic might will eventually lead to a corrupted government".
Of course I agree Sei's cheesy ideals aren't any better.
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I think I'll take Ryofui's not perfect but far superior plan ESPECIALLY since it's been tried and tested by history to be the right path over Sei's stupidly idealistic EVERYTHING MUST BE AS ONE NOT A SINGLE FLAW CAN BE PRESENT WHICH IS WHY I'LL SACRIFICE COUNTLESS LIVES TO ACHIEVE IT BUT I TOTALLY RESPECT THEIR LIVES BECAUSE THEY ARE THE LIGHT bullcrap.
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@TLC:
I think I'll take Ryofui's not perfect but far superior plan ESPECIALLY since it's been tried and tested by history to be the right path over Sei's stupidly idealistic EVERYTHING MUST BE AS ONE NOT A SINGLE FLAW CAN BE PRESENT WHICH IS WHY I'LL SACRIFICE COUNTLESS LIVES TO ACHIEVE IT BUT I TOTALLY RESPECT THEIR LIVES BECAUSE THEY ARE THE LIGHT bullcrap.
From his perspective, it will be. Or did you forget that they are talking more than two thousands years in the past?
Both plans are flawed, but in all honesty, you are needlessly glorifying Ryofui's plan, when it isn't any better. Both have idealistic roots, and both are stupid.
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From his perspective, it will be. Or did you forget that they are talking more than two thousands years in the past?
Both plans are flawed, but in all honesty, you are needlessly glorifying Ryofui's plan, when it isn't any better. Both have idealistic roots, and both are stupid.
Ryofui's plan is actually a plan (a good one too since, you know, it's the current state of China). Sei's plan isn't a plan, it's just bull headed arrogance peppered with pretentious, hypocritical idealism.
I BELIEVE IN THE LIGHT OF HUMAN SPIRIT WHICH IS WHY I WILL NEEDLESSLY SACRIFICE THEM TO ACHIEVE MY GOALS.
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@TLC:
I think I'll take Ryofui's not perfect but far superior plan ESPECIALLY since it's been tried and tested by history to be the right path over Sei's stupidly idealistic EVERYTHING MUST BE AS ONE NOT A SINGLE FLAW CAN BE PRESENT WHICH IS WHY I'LL SACRIFICE COUNTLESS LIVES TO ACHIEVE IT BUT I TOTALLY RESPECT THEIR LIVES BECAUSE THEY ARE THE LIGHT bullcrap.
Give some specific examples…
...and no, argument wise both are almost equally silly. If we're talking from a modern context I'd go for the victory via military over economic might. If we're talking from Ryofui's idea then it'd be attempting victory via exploiting wealth, the greed of humans and mercenaries. Decent and usable, but hardly reliable, as it leads to too much corruption and your money can mean nothing if another state has a better military that can take your money by force. So yeah, no better.
I could overdramatise the argument like you did, but you get the idea.
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Give some specific examples…
...and no, argument wise both are almost equally silly. If we're talking from a modern context I'd go for the victory via military over economic might. If we're talking from Ryofui's idea then it'd be attempting victory via exploiting wealth, the greed of humans and mercenaries. Decent and usable, but hardly reliable, as it leads to too much corruption and your money can mean nothing if another state has a better military that can take your money by force. So yeah, no better.
I could overdramatise the argument like you did, but you get the idea.
Give specific…what? It's the current global state of China. Everyone owes money to it especially the US which is why they can't say anything about their human rights abuses. The idea of making all the other nations dependent on the strength of your market is not only a good idea, it's what is being used currently. Yeah, there's room for corruption but it's what good politicians and statesmen are for.
Sei is basically taking that plan and going "Well yeah, but it depends on people being greedy which is a sin so it's a shitty plan because people are inherently good, dammit!. Which is why it's a much better plan to waste their lives needlessly in conflict and ravage the economy in the country in the process! Because my people may be poor, starving and without a family, but at least their light is shining!"
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also I'm really sick and tired of this abloo bloo, money is the devil and excessive wealth is a sin that authors shove into their stories. Like it can't be used for positive things...like uniting a nation and avoiding wars...
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@TLC:
Ryofui's plan is actually a plan (a good one too since, you know, it's the current state of China).
A) No it isn't.
B) You have failed to take into account that the morality of people has evolved for the last two thousands of years.
@TLC:
Sei's plan isn't a plan, it's just bull headed arrogance peppered with pretentious, hypocritical idealism.
It is a plan. He doesn't give you specifics (neither does Ryufui), but the core of the plan is there.
@TLC:
I BELIEVE IN THE LIGHT OF HUMAN SPIRIT WHICH IS WHY I WILL NEEDLESSLY SACRIFICE THEM TO ACHIEVE MY GOALS.
It's almost like it's a metaphor and you are deliberatly ignoring that.
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Hopefully, the debate about nature of the man is over now, and we can go back to military tactics and Shin bashing skulls again.
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A) No it isn't.
Improve a country's economy to the point that everyone is dependent upon it is more of a plan than do exactly the same thing I've been always doing and everyone else has done before me but throw in a bunch of pretentious philosophical bs.
B) You have failed to take into account that the morality of people has evolved for the last two thousands of years.
What morality? This is about practicality. Making it so your existence is essential to your potential rivals. The concept of quid pro quo is timeless.
It is a plan. He doesn't give you specifics (neither does Ryufui), but the core of the plan is there.
The core of his plan is take over everyone, the same shit Ryofui just called him out on forn chapters as being impractical and detrimental to the country. But then he just added will of light to it and it somehow made it profound.
It's almost like it's a metaphor and you are deliberatly ignoring that.
I get the shallow metaphor of light versus dark, it's not exactly original. At least in most stories I read, the light argument has a solution that matches the ideals of the character. Something like working together to achieve the best solution for civilians and avoid conflict. Not throwing my citizens into a meat grinder because gosh darnit, I believe so much in their integrity, I'll take that over thinking they might enjoy not starving and being in poverty.
If Sei were the villain in this scenario, I wouldn't change a word of his dialogue
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@TLC:
Improve a country's economy to the point that everyone is dependent upon it is more of a plan than do exactly the same thing I've been always doing and everyone else has done before me but throw in a bunch of pretentious philosophical bs.
A) Actually, no serious effort has been to military unification of China before, so no, that is not true.
B) Ryufui's plan has not an ounce of practicality in it, so stop pretending that it does.
@TLC:
What morality? This is about practicality. Making it so your existence is essential to your potential rivals. The concept of quid pro quo is timeless.
Practicality? You are talking about country were killing and raping your enemies children was socially acceptable, respected and expected.
And how exactly can you make yourself essential within the realms of ancient china? Because you are the only one producing silk, for example? So they will come, kill you, and take your workers and materials for themselfs.
Why would they pay for it, and tolerate being on mercy of your whims, if they can just slit your throat?
@TLC:
The core of his plan is take over everyone, the same shit Ryofui just called him out on forn chapters as being impractical and detrimental to the country. But then he just added will of light to it and it somehow made it profound.
It's not profound. It is a logical assumption: People are good in nature, therefore after unification lasting peace can be achieved.
@TLC:
I get the shallow metaphor of light versus dark, it's not exactly original. At least in most stories I read, the light argument has a solution that matches the ideals of the character. Something like working together to achieve the best solution for civilians and avoid conflict. Not throwing my citizens into a meat grinder because gosh darnit, I believe so much in their integrity, I'll take that over thinking they might enjoy not starving and being in poverty.
If Sei were the villain in this scenario, I wouldn't change a word of his dialogue
… Yes, everything will be wonderful if we just let Ryufui change us into utopia.
Funny. Remember that you mention that this is what modern China did? Perhaps you should do so research towards the means it was done with.
Really now. Your premise is the most unrealistic thing I have ever heard.
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Oh man, I was expecting something good but this "light" idealistic stuff? It's up to Shin to carry the arc I guess.
3DS Friend Code 1693-2056-2994
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Oh man, I was expecting something good but this "light" idealistic stuff? It's up to Shin to carry the arc I guess.
They are both idiots.
Heh, I think Hara would be much better off making Sei more like Qin Shi Huang was in history, at this point.
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They are both idiots.
Heh, I think Hara would be much better off making Sei more like Qin Shi Huang was in history, at this point.
We'll see, Shin only had one minor fuck up while Sei arguably fucked up the biggest moment of his life.
That would be a total 180 out of nowhere, especially after that light speech.
3DS Friend Code 1693-2056-2994
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We'll see, Shin only had one minor fuck up while Sei arguably fucked up the biggest moment of his life.
Hmm, true. Plus, at least Shin does okay in "being good at fighting" department.
That would be a total 180 out of nowhere, especially after that light speech.
Makes you wonder how much of whitewashing he is going to do to show that Sei didn't really mean all those terrible things that real Qin Shi Huang has done.
I'll wait for the end of the rebellion to see what he is going to do.
Tsk. You'd think we wouldn't need such Shonen like plots in Seinen manga…
