@Ansatsuken:
Yea unfortunately I see that happening too, plus considering the first feature fight if he did would be heavily Logia fire-based and might be over 2 manga chapters or 1-2 anime episodes, the reactions are pretty predictable. After that though, I see the fruit being more like Luffy's gear 2nd where he calls it up when he's being serious.
I really don't want to get into the whole power-lvl struggle, tbh. All that talk in the first place is from Sanji not having a Jyabura like character to battle 1v1 against so far yet in the New World. There hasn't really been a measuring stick (besides being evenly matched with Zoro when they squabble.) to compare him to in all out combat.
In fact I don't think he's gotten a proper 1v1 (since Absalom was sort of a dud 1v1) since Jyabura. And I thought he only use knives because Mr Noodles was wearing food and Sanji's kicks were ineffective.
In all your points, (+ other posters), I see your want for the fruit, and why you think it could work/ be interesting/ cool for the story/ character/ SH's experience, but no reason within the story for him to actual need or want the fruit?…
(TBH the need or want is probably where the power- lvl struggle gets involved, in providing " proof of need/ want")
Just think: not considering Luffy asking him, or eating the fruit somehow by mistake, or being influenced by a girl( basically no outside influencing, or for the simple comedy of it); what want or need would Sanji in and of himself, ( within the story, and within the character's form of logic), have to possess, or take the fruit abilities? IMHO if you CaNNot even realistically come up with an answer to this; that's because there is a flaw in the basis of your original reasoning why it is possible/ probable. For instance people point to Sanji's training "masters/ point of origin" as being a joke; Yet if you seriously think about it, it's both: a joke, and something that makes great sense to get Sanji's particular abilities to even more of a 'greater evolution/ peak', (thus a competent combination of both). So you can see the combination of Oda's sense of humor, and why Kuma would reason to send Sanji there to improve in the 1st place, from the POV of Kuma/ Dragon's intentions(?) within the story, but not really in the case of Sanji getting the mera mera no mi?
! Just a point.
Above I asked the question excluding those things, not because I couldn't answer, or they were better points, but because they were "What If's" , or POV points that could have needlessly had us going back and forth trying to change each others opinion, which made no sense going back and forth on something that was based on opinion/ POV too heavily, or the opinion of what could happen, only if something else happened 1st; all from our POV's, which either way is still not have to be Oda's POV.
The bold/underlined is where a large part of the problem (IMHO) lies. I have tremendous faith in Oda. But finding that balance, I don't believe any writer/ storyteller could realistically do, + in a way that explains itself realistically.
Either he uses the fruit to dependency, or he uses it only in "big moments" as you mentioned above, (too little), neglecting the 'need to get it in the 1st place'.
Either he "adapts" too quickly to the fire logia abilities, or he adapts too slowly, making it kind of unrealistic if not the perfectly (undefinable) middle ground.
Either he incorporates haki into his fighting style too quickly, or he incorporates it too slowly, making him either unrealistically mastering/ or too slow to learn haki.
Either he continually side by side trains/ strengthens his haki, separate from training/ strengthening his new fire logia abilities; or he somehow trains them together directly, once again being too proficient too fast, or being a burden by his slow incompetence in not learning fast enough.
Don't get me wrong. Just saying there is no "perfectly middle ground", thus what makes it "(undefinable)". It will continually be too much or too little, adding very little to the story, but mainly the debate of which it is ==(too much, or too little). Which I don't think that would be what the goal is.
@Ansatsuken:
Thanks, man. I want him to have the MM, but I know it has to make literary sense first before I or anyone else would accept it; just going off about how cool it might be doesn't really get any points across.
Yeah I hate power level discussions, especially when Oda puts quality and mechanics over quantity in terms of battle so often. It was even parodized with CP9.
It's odd that you can note the bold/underlined; but don't notice he also does it with the SH's. Sanji has always, ( just with his legs), managed to be a "jack of all trades" type fighter, that finds a way to get the job done no matter what. And Oda has consistently always "puts quality and mechanics over quantity in terms of " the SH's as well. A great example of this would be the FI enemies. Jimbei's comment, and the constant remarking on Hody's people's weakness, always seemed to be a ringing endorsement for getting, training power in a way that you've earned it. If you look at it, actually, the whole manga has; but a great 'newer' example is FI. The problem lies in Sanji doesn't need to earn the fruit, both, because he won't be earning it (Luffy conceivably will), and in the sense that you don't need to earn a fruit in the 1st place. If you eat it 1st, you get power, simple as that. The working towards/ earning/ training to achieve lies in what Sanji's has been doing anyway, almost as if naturally, this whole time. Why suddenly, and unnecessarily, basically/ essentially, now do the opposite, only in regards to Sanji, 1 of the MT?…
@Ansatsuken:
As someone who visits an MMA gym once in a while I have a strong respect for his black leg style and want to see him keep his fighting that way as well, but I'm not really worried about acquisition of a Logia cutting into his style at all.
As a melee combatant you simply don't spontaneously 'forget' training that's been pounded into your muscle memory year after year; I doubt even being able to turn into intangible fire would change that. if anything I think it'd augment the Black Leg Style, much like Kizaru turns his legs into light when he's up close. I try to think of the comparison to someone in MMA who has a base style they're comfortable with; say, wrestling - that trains boxing in order to set up their takedowns (using skill B to complement skill A).
Besides, Sanji's been proven to be a master tactician, he'd pull some crazy genius sh*t off if he figures it out.
Think you miss the differences in your example, and Sanji's: choosing to incorporate more different fighting styles/ techniques, ( or simply choosing to learn these fighting styles/ techniques separately from each other but combine the overall result); is very much different, and differing, from choosing/ having no other choice but to have your body changed pretty much completely out of your control, (in a way that by the time you control it, your former "muscle memory" might not even still be there), and then once adapted to that, find a way to also add to that your original, or a perfectly, ( or even slowly developed), mixed fighting style with the old. (Still very different+ differing things)
But seeing as this is the NW, should he really have the time to slowly adapt, or the realism to breeze thru it otherwise?…
Then with Kizaru, yeah, more than likely he mainly used kicks before, (but not really for sure), but more than likely he didn't fly, or shoot laserbeams/ + tiny explosions of "light bombs" before he got the DF. (I get that you might say that this proves the combination of styles further, but...)
Since it can't be proven either way as we've never seen him before DF, he conceivably could have had similar abilities to 'flying'(geppou) , and launching long distance attacks(rankyaku); but this would make them pretty much completely eclipsed by his DF's way of doing things instead, even in relation to just how he kicks, (needing to rely on speed of light for extra power/ force, instead of just using extra power/ force), not just 'co -integrated' or incorporated to make the perfect mesh blending of both "styles of fighting".
If there's a semblance of a pattern already set; So why assume Sanji would be any different?…
@Ansatsuken:
The only DF-type we've yet to experience from the point of consumption and the development of its usage is at this point a Logia-type. This is a golden opportunity for that.
Would Sanji get attention from fans for fights? Of course, but it happens every time one of the crew members gets some sort of big power up. I wouldn't really care about the 'fights' as much as I'd relish an opportunity to see someone learn the usage of a logia from scratch, especially in non combat situations. The big powerups so far - like Asura, Luffy's Gears, Diable Jambe; they've all had at least an episode dedicated to them anyway.
Let's see though, what makes the difference? All of Sanji's, Zoro's, Luffy's "powerups have been basically pre -existing enhancements/ + more techniques derived from their basics of their abilities/ demeanor/ personalities/ attributes/ never before shown hidden potential. But Sanji getting the fruit isn't that. It's not just enhancing/ realizing/ or acknowledging what's already there, it's adding something completely different, with differing aspects. Instead of a power -up; it's more like a 'new -kind of -large -power -addition', whose main drawback/ detriment is the varying time it should/ would/ could/ can't take to utilize it to it's potential.
@DARK_RITUAL:
Because his called Garp the fist? Not proof enough for me, everyone thought WB was a physical pure fighter but when sh*t got serious he pulls out a bisento or whatever it's called and Gura Gura. Same with Sengoku, turns into a giant Buddha. Don't get me wrong, not saying Garp is a DF user but we don't know i**f he uses his surrounding to fight, like lifting a building(like burgess) and smashing it on you, throwing ships at you etc**. Ridiculous but just saying..
We've never seen him fight seriously, and he has always been shown throwing cannonballs even huge ones.
Please show me or tell me one Top fighter in One piece who doesn't use a weapon or DF?
Agreed with Citizen Ships above^^^, and looking at the bold/underlined, you do realize all that "using the environment/ surroundings"; still makes you "a physical pure fighter"?…
Unless you're working from a different definition of "a physical pure fighter"?…
Are you saying Zoro isn't a swordsman because he occasionally uses his strength, and swords to lift very heavy things? So, similarly, why assume that of Garp?
Even Luffy is mostly "a physical pure fighter", whose DF uniquely mainly enhances his reach/ surface area of effect, (and yes admittedly definitively skyrockets his durability to blunt trauma, (possibly affecting his agility as well but giving how much time he probably had to put in to function semi -normally again, it would/ could be considered a fair trade)), but not like zoans which apparently directly enhance body traits multiple times more than they would be originally.
You consider $hit getting serious at the War, enough to make WB get 'serious', yet Garp didn't/ wasn't at least forced to get semi- serious?…
EH:blink::blink::blink:...
Oh, and an added point(s), Garp himself has never been shown to even ever carry a viable 'weapon', (unlike pretty much any example that can be named), so why go out of the way to assume he uses 1? And the point about the cannonball usage in the "ship to ship battles", actually would further point to the idea that lacking any weapons, or Dfruit abilities that could travel that far, he was forced to use cannonballs, like any "physical pure fighter", just not in an average way. In fact It would seem Garp throwing/ punching/ launching cannonballs, has been shown to near perfectly 'reverse mirror reflection' Sanji's habit of kicking/ lobbing/ bouncing/ returning cannonball attacks with his legs back to their source: both only with their body's power alone.