It's been a while since I've watched, but holy cow, that fight scene felt like a different anime all together!
Posts made by PirateHunter
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RE: 933: ''Gyuukimaru! Zoro Duels On Bandit Bridge''
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RE: Chapter 908: The Reverie Begins
@Daz:
Another thing is, I really don't see how World King declaring to have some pirate killed is going to make stuff substantially different. I mean, lets say s/he calls out for Luffys head: How does that change the WGs current approach? Does it imply that they haven't really been trying up till now - despite Luffy being a D, beating up several warlords, decalring war on the government directly and so on and so on?
What if the King called for Blackbeard to be killed? Would the elder stars just shuffle their feet embarrasedly, or are we supposed to believe an emperor can be killed by the whim of the World Pope?
I am enjoying the mystique, but I definitely agree that this new dynamic requires substantial fleshing out.
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RE: Chapter 900: Bad End Musical (Break)
I'm not in the habit of complaining about breaks, but damn! What a cliffhanger.
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RE: Chapter 900: Bad End Musical (Break)
There's no way they escaped because there's still too much to resolve, right? It has to be a dream? That still seems like such a stretch…I guess it could just be a standard doomsday-comeback transition.
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RE: Chapter 896: The Last Request
I experienced most of the pre-timeskip content first through the anime, so the pacing issues were characteristically different. What's the significant difference between Luffy vs. Lucci and Luffy vs. Katakuri (focusing on narrative structure/pacing and not, for example, the difference between Lucci and Katakuri as characters, or the vastly superior setup of Enies Lobby)? Does it just feel more clunky because this wasn't the conclusion of a sequence of battles?
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RE: Chapter 896: The Last Request
@Count:
In the midst of Big Mom being the central antagonist focus, I don't think making Katakuri less redeemable as a character. Especially when his redeemable traits redeemed the character's generic stoic edgy appearance foe me after his appearance in the wedding.
I think the answer is making Katakuri's internal conflict and influence feel as memorable as Franky vs. Señor Pink with the latter's flashback, but on the scale of a climactic Luffy fight. Which Oda tried do, and did a tolerable job of. But it suffers from all of the setup starting during the fight and the fight being segmented all over the place to disrupt the pacing, and thus disrupt how much we care about the fight. Better buildup and tragedy on that front which amounts to more than "I'll disappoint my shallow siblings" and Luffy himself being more invested in the fight somehow. Like Luffy consciously proclaiming to prove Katakuri's principles of molding his life based on his family's expectations wrong, and that's why he has a better relationship with his crew/family, rather than that being something he does incidentally because Luffy is only interested for getting stronger.
Basically, Luffy needed more of the thematic weight he had when knocking out Bellamy's ass in Jaya to avenge his friends and prove the value of dreams, while Katakuri needed more consistent and compelling internal conflict build-up on the tension level of Señor Pink's flashback. But for what Oda did do for these character's motivations, it's still tolerable.
It's certainly tolerable, but I think you've hit the salient points. I had forgotten that characters like Katakuri and Tamago play the much-needed role of balancing the dysfunction that plagues the rest of the crew (including Big Mom).
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RE: Chapter 896: The Last Request
Would it have been better if Katakuri were a less redeemable villain? Oda spent a lot of time softening his edges; there probably would have been better (and more appropriate) drama if Katakuri were more consistently ruthless.
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RE: Chapter 896: The Last Request
I enjoyed this more than I thought it would. Glad this arc is coming to a close.
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RE: Chapter 884: Who
! What is the point of saying these Yonkou control large territories if we're not going to get even a glimpse of it, if it's all going to stop at Wano? It's a waste of an opportunity, to say the least (yes we can still see them but without the looming threat it loses the excitement of that). And it doesn't need to be climactic having them fight through his commanders to get to him, it's when they finally do get to him that it should be climactic, which is the point when he's the big boss of that crew, isn't it? Caesar Clown (loser) being beaten was hardly climactic at all but when we got to see Doflamingo fall, damn if it wasn't ultra climactic. Since Big Mom's not going down (in a fair fight, at least), there's no need for, or expectation for, this arc to be climactic. But the more buildup we get, the more satisfying the payoff, I would say. So having this preview of what it's like to futz with a Yonkou in what amounts to a prison break is the perfect starting point for an actual mission to dethrone a Yonkou once they've got a better plan than Bege's lame one, for example.
! And if you're correct about the scale of this gargantuan alliance, cramming it all together at once is going to be nightmarish. For one thing, it's already a bit irritating that the crew has to split up like this so frequently now, and if they're going to toss a huge amount of people together at the same time it's going to be like some of the worst parts of Bleach (although to be fair, we'll know most of these OP characters, whereas in Bleach they threw dozens of strangers at us in a short duration.) What makes the most sense narrative-wise is to parse it out, gain allies jumping in little by little, getting closer and closer to where Kaido's downfall will take place, have everyone positioned wherever they need to be (maybe have a ship offshore waiting to fire weapons, and the main force attacking directly, etc.) One place having all this happen is going to look like a wasteland by the time they get done tearing it all apart. It's not usually Oda's style to completely devastate a place once the fighting is over (at least not friendly places; to hell with Enies Lobby after that Buster Call) so it would be more expected of him to have a smaller skirmish occur in Wano and, regardless of where they go in pursuit of the conclusion of this crusade, end in Kaido's stronghold where he not only gets beat but watches his castle crumble all around him.
! For the sake of Oda delivering a cohesive string of events, he'll have to pace it if he's going to continue to impress us as he's done for over a decade now. I mean, does this not sound like something that could work out nicely?
1. Wano, reunion with SH, Law crew and alliance with native Wano peeps, fight off Kaido's Zoan blokes and let them see just how serious these worst generation punks are firsthand
2. Second island in getting closer to Kaido's stronghold, meet up with Kidd/Apoo/Hawkins alliance, build a veritable armada of supernova crews, maybe get sidetracked looking for something the new guys have their eye on that can help turn the tide
3. Get interrupted by X Drake, fight him and convince him to switch sides, maybe he wanted that all along and just needed to be convinced he could find others who were strong enough to actually accomplish the feat
4. Get to Kaido's stronghold, have trump card of Luffy's armada from Dressrosa show up to help in the last stand to make a path to Kaido for the main fighters while the remaining Zoan SMILE guys are beaten back
! A lot cleaner than trying to cram all of that into Wano, no?
! And I forgot to address this before, when I criticized Brook, my main issue with him is being a swordsman really steps on Zoro's toes and I'm not too keen on that. I actually like him a lot as a character but I wish he'd use musical instruments as weapons instead of a blade. Or even using a violin bow as an improvised sword would be better, IMO, just so Zoro would be the unique swordsman in the group. Just a tad bothersome but whatevs, he hardly gets any screen time anyway. But at this point I'm prone to get extremely irritable with people who've argued that Kinemon or another samurai will be joining the crew for that reason.
! I wouldn't have known that. I'm not that up to speed on the folklore of Japan itself, just what's adapted into their stuff now and whatever little tidbits I hear about as DVD extras or on forums like this.I agree with most of what you've said, but if, for example, Greg is right about Wano being composed of four different islands, I think the scopes fit. In other words, we can have the necessary progression/separate-but-eventually-joining storylines without feeling crammed. To me, the extreme of what you're describing is Oda taking us on a 10-year journey through increasingly significant islands in Kaido's territory (which again, may be less substantial since he doesn't seem like the most enterprising yonko) culminating in some grand finale. I do think that's too much investment for this conflict, or at least I can easily imagine Oda doing something less substantial. There's still so much that needs to happen. Given that Oda has already toiled with the disparity between Kaido and Luffy, it's more likely that he is saving a lot of that progression for future conflicts (with Blackbeard, the WG, etc.).
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RE: Chapter 884: Who
His HQ is shaped exactly like Onigashima from the most famous Japanese folktale located on what is probably a wlnter island of what will probably make up Wano's 4 seasonal islands.
Aha, actual insight.
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RE: Chapter 884: Who
! Aye carumba, ass-loads of stuff to respond to, good thing I have a four-day weekend. But I'm delighted that we've all been able to calm down, re-evaluate things and come to a somewhat better understanding. I'm going to give everyone a blank slate and be reflective on myself to ensure that my points are more clear. I know that when I really get going, what sounds good in my head doesn't always translate into words on the page.
! I migrated from mangafox forums that shut down in the last week or so (almost at the same time we lost Miiverse…I guess good things really do die in threes). My username was BattleFranky but when I signed on here, that was taken so I had to do something tacky to make the name stay mostly the same. XP
! I think now that we've reached a point that makes sense, and I can see there were some light concessions, the discussion can proceed productively.
! I think I should have taken a few steps back before I made my points. Each Yonkou seems to have a big territory. I know when they were first told about what it would take to get to them, it was like a bull's eye on a target, where each concentric circle around the bull's eye would have to be overcome before they could reach that spot. Big Mom's arc here allowed them to bypass that and, I think very usefully, showed us the depths of strength that both a Yonkou and their top commanders possess. Even if there was no intention of winning big, just a glimpse of them served the purpose of terrifying the crew with their crushing might. They truly are a force that keeps even the Admirals at bay, and justifiably so in spades.
! That said, because Wano is merely ONE of Kaido's spaces on his chessboard, he need not necessarily personally be there at the time the crew arrives (whether that means the advance team, or Luffy's group; it wouldn't be the first time his half of the group showed up late to the party). If the argument is that Oda won't double-dip (at least not within the New World; lots of what's happened since the time skip parallels the Paradise side of the Grand Line very closely), then them encountering the big bad right off the bat would be doing just that. If they have to make their way through his defenses, moving from place to place (where's the wonder of exploration otherwise? Don't get me wrong, I like the fighting just fine, but still, not enough of the former going on) then that would set this Yonkou arc apart from Big Mom's and that would suit the story just fine, it would make it feel like they've EARNED it rather than being handed it like they were with the BM family.
! What I'm still failing to grasp is the point of Luffy and co. beating a Yonkou at this point in the story. Right now Luffy is indisputably peak Shichibukai level and honestly, after toppling Doflamingo and with everything after this arc, his bounty should be well over a billion and I'm not sure any two supernovas combined can reach that (I haven't checked lately so I could be wrong). But that level of bounty, if we only regarded it in terms of strength, still inevitably doesn't hold a candle to a Yonkou. Watching them struggle against one like Big Mom makes them look very clearly like a joke. Her top commander really does look to be the appropriate level for them to continue tangling with. Just like how they would fight all the numbered agents before getting to Croc in Baroque Works, or fighting the CP9 agents rather than the Admirals or Vice-Admirals at the time, there's a progression that needs to be worked up through before they get there. Taking down a Yonkou now leaves very, very few opponents left that would make appropriate-level foes for the typical one-on-one fights to which we're accustomed.
! Giving Kaido an actual army that has to be toppled before reaching him in a stronghold of his own making rather than a stolen one like the occupied Wano, not only gives that delay and progression the opportunity to play out but also would feel more climactic once they reach it. If at that point, they ganged up on him and somehow managed to nakama-power his butt, they will at least have gone through the rites and earned it. By that point, they would have taken the time to tangle with the remainder of the appropriate-level enemies (possibly even some distraction arcs like Drum before actually going to Alabasta like they were making a beeline for before) so that if Kaido does fall, the time to usher in the end of the series will feel like it's been reached. That's a way to avoid there being a big vacuum of nothing happening and give Luffy opportunities to get stronger in the meantime before actually reaching Kaido so it's less of a pathetic joke to be going up against him, even if Luffy does still require an army of his own to bolster him. If he's at the level he's currently at and is nothing compared to Big Mom, why would we want to see that happen with Kaido too?
! Those would all set the Kaido arc apart from Big Mom's which I seem to be getting the impression is what everybody wants, and I agree. I just disagree that the climax is appropriately timed IF Kaido is encountered immediately upon arriving at Wano. Blowing Oda's load at that early stage would cheapen the Yonkou embarrassingly. Now, if the Crocodile analogy holds up, Kaido could be encountered in Wano, kick the ever-loving crap out of everybody, say he's bored and too good for that place and go to one of his other favorite islands, where they pursue him after recovering and regrouping, or going on a side quest to get stronger or something. If they want to take THAT kind of time before their deus ex machina victory over him, I'm all for it. I just got the sense there was WAY too freaking big of a rush to get there.
! Oh, and in all seriousness, what if the cake they're going to feed Big Mom is some kind of massive emetic (vomit-inducer) or appetite suppressant where it forcefully shrinks her stomach and curbs her appetite (like a recipe for gastric bypass without requiring surgery)? That would sure stick it to her and provide a distraction such that she wouldn't be able to think about anything else but reversing it rather than pursuing the Straw Hats.I think that most of what you've said in this post is relatively uncontroversial, at least in addressing reasonable progression for the SHs. Why can't Wano be the setting for the type of narrative we're imagining here (following an Arabasta-esque arc)? I think Big Mom is unique in having such a deliberately curated territory. Kaido doesn't seem to give a shit about anything, so I think Wano serves the roll of being his stronghold perfectly well. It would be a dislocating departure from form to have a sprawling Wano kuni arc that doesn't include a confrontation with Kaido. I'm not a huge fan of it, but Oda has been somewhat casual in pitting Luffy against Yonko commanders in this arc, so I don't think a victory over Kaido's subordinates would be sufficiently climactic. Also, the scale of the operation (including the alliance and presumably the remnants of the WB pirates), and the motivations/ire of those involved (specifically Momonosuke) sort of requires Kaido's defeat. Defeating Kaido should be one of the most climactic moments in the story so far (in deference to his position as a yonko and the significance of defeating an enemy of that caliber), which demands appropriate progression, but I don't see why that can't happen in Wano (or during one of the many sub-plots I'm sure will punctuate the arc). In any case, what you said at the end of your second-to-last paragraph seems to me to be a reasonable prediction, that I don't think anyone has major objections to, except that it isn't really necessary to hype up Kaido any more than he already has been at this point. He trashed Luffy's peers (Kid, Hawkins, Apoo) and Big Mom/Whitebeard have sufficiently demonstrated the immensity of the task. Of course I expect Kaido to do some intimidating things, but it would be strange if upon landing in Wano, the entire alliance is immediately destroyed by Kaido. Again, that would be a major departure from form.
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RE: One Piece Chapter 874 - King Baum
Which goals of the BM pirates could be reasonably conceded at this point? I think the most glaring incompetence is the crew's inability to manage BM's rampages. Kaido seems similarly incapable (to BM), but the question of competence sort of flies out the window for me when the crew is so dysfunctional (everyone is crippled by obsequiousness associated with an extremely unreliable captain). I think the SHs have been wrecked sufficiently to hype up the battle with the beast pirates, and I would say my gripes with the arc go beyond the BM pirates' incompetence. Sanji has emerged as completely incapable (reinforced by a wholly uninspiring internal conflict/resolution), it's been and continues to be extremely difficult to sympathize with the SHs (they are in some sense the aggressors; why was it so easy to ally with the morally bankrupt Bege? The background malevolence is so extreme, and yet the SHs don't particularly stand out as foils. Even in this chapter, as Daz mentioned, the SHs are pretty unapologetic in basically abusing King Baum to potential death), the Germa/Sanji conflict was again dealt with unsatisfying haste, and the terrible characterization of Smoothie and Pudding. I think there are a lot of problems with this arc, most of which could be contained under the umbrella of rushed characterization/development. All that being said, I've still enjoyed meeting the BM pirates and could imagine them being incorporated in a more interesting way in the future.
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RE: Chapter 871: "Go Caesar!"
@Count:
This is where we've fallen in trying to rationalize Smoothie's indolence, folks.
Lmfao. It really is a shame. Katakuri is pretty cool, but there was definitely a missed opportunity with Smoothie.
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RE: Chapter 871: "Go Caesar!"
Luffy doesn't appear so weak in this exchange that the next arc would be implausible. I'm comfortable with the dominance of the BM pirates (in that it seems sufficient), and I liked the respect/foreshadowing for Kaido
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RE: Chapter 870: Parting
@Kaido:
I wouldn't expect parity between the Yonko and their top fighters, that would be a lot of potential for mutiny there. Also I don't think Oda's regretted making the Yonko as strong as they are.
I guess…
Although Luffy "defeated" Cracker, I don't have much of an issue with how that was dealt with. I agree with some others who have been underwhelmed by Smoothie, who is very well-designed but seems to be of no use. Katakuri seems useful, but Jack/Marco/Jozu had much more impressive introductions. Given their analogs in other powerful crews, not treating the commanders similarly seems like a missed opportunity.
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RE: Chapter 870: Parting
The destruction of Elbaf and apparent domination over all of her subordinates (including Smoothie and Katakuri, who are analogous to Jack, Marco, Jozu, etc.) puts Big Mom comfortably into the yonko stratosphere in my opinion (didn't Oda say he made a mistake in making the Yonko so ridiculously powerful? He doesn't seem to be relenting…). That she does this seemingly unconsciously elevates her somehow higher, to the point of perhaps absurdity. I think it's certainly a debatable issue, but I feel like there's a discrepancy between Katakuri/Big Mom and Marco/Whitebeard, perhaps Jack/Kaido (not to mention Shanks/Beckman, Roger/Rayleigh). Maybe it isn't necessary for there to be parity, but I still find it strange that even Big Mom's highest ranking subordinates feel so subordinate.
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RE: Chapter 866: Natural Born Destroyer
I don't care about the size that much, but I am curious about the strength.
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RE: One Piece 863: The Consumate Gentleman
@Count:
For plans, not really. He bolted straight into Enies Lobby alone and was willing to head off to Zou with only Pekoms. He only makes plans if they're either funny or forced on him, and he only asks for help if he''s struggling in a fight. It's completely possible that Brook himself proposed his part of the plan for safety, but it feels a bit weird since I don't really see why Brook would be suddenly concerned about Luffy possibly failing if everybody else has been cool with him breaking the portrait thus far.
An off-screen warning about Katakuri would feel a bit cheap. I'm not a fan of hiding parts of a flashback plan that only come up when the convenient surprise twist is shown without build-up.
And that doesn't really count as a sign since the plan is already in motion. This scenario Oda's going for is "you thought you saw the whole plan and everything works on paper, but there's actually this contingency tidbit I hid as a surprise". And I guess I'm okay with it. I just wish there was more visible setup for this twist in the planning scenes we saw since everything seemed covered without room for concern.
I agree. I don't think it's particularly poorly handled, but I think it would have been better if there were a shot of Brook saying "Luffy-san, I have an idea…" or something similar. Oda has done this many times previously. I sort of expect there to be another flashback next chapter.
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RE: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones
Pudding's castration isn't much of a loss for me. At this point, the only person whose motivation I can wrap my head around is Bege, and I don't think he's ready to assassinate big mom. I wish the threat to Baratie had been handled better. The transition from simple pirate crews to criminal organizations with unlimited powers of surveillance and reaches far beyond a given territory isn't entirely convincing. I would have much preferred a cut-scene where-in some new big-shot underling of Big Mom is sent to East Blue to make the threat more palpable. At least then I could sympathize more with Sanji.
Of course, that would only be a small step in the right direction. Big Mom's motivation for concocting this entire convoluted plan is extremely suspect; none of the motivations have been fleshed out very well.
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RE: Chapter 837: Luffy vs Commander Cracker
I don't understand the urge to dismiss an entire class of potentially interesting characters because of some confused notion that Luffy must be able to combat Kaido in a certain way. If it's true, I find it reassuring that Kaido won't be defeated directly in a one-on-one fight. I could understand concern that Luffy has to use Gear Fourth at every encounter, but he's not fighting light-weights. If Cracker is comparable to Marco or Jozu, he should be a non-trivial obstacle (that probably actually shouldn't be overcome in the next chapter or two)
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RE: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0
@Monkey:
What the heck would Zoro and Mihawk be doing fighting at that point in the story.
Pretty sure there would be massive stakes involved that would make the Mihawk duel in bad taste to say the least.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
He was significant after the war. Becoming Zoro's master and setting him up for the final stretch of the story skills wise.
I have no idea what this sentence is saying or even addressing.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I'm curious as to Blackbeard's crew gaining someone with Poneglyph reading abilities. Or maybe one of them already has it.
Why would it be significant for Zoro to beat Mihawk (or Shiliew) if he's already skirmished with an admiral or fought an incredibly strong member of a yonko crew (someone we're assuming, in this thread at least, is stronger than Mihawk). It isn't necessary for the comparison to be made, but I think it would be more satisfying.
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RE: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0
If the remainder of Mihawk's role in the story is to lose to Shiliew, then he should have been more significant in the war. At the moment, I don't think there is enough evidence that being the strongest swordsman has any relevance against enemies of the caliber that Zoro will presumably face throughout the rest of the series. Of course, this discrepancy can be approached in different ways (e.g. via Mihawk, Shiliew, or Zoro himself)
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RE: Chapter 788: "My Fight"
Is this truly less ridiculous than Zoro cutting the bird cage in tandem with Luffy defeating Doflamingo? At this point the bird cage is completely nonsensical.
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RE: Chapter 787: "4 minutes"
We all know those 3 minutes are going to get stretched to 4 by the efforts of Zoro, Franky, and the Tontattas. Buying Luffy just enough time for the finishing blow.
What? No, the chapter is very clear. In three minutes everyone currently inside the bird cage will certainly die.
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RE: Chapter 787: "4 minutes"
I enjoyed the chapter (like I said above), some pretty cool moments from Barto and Doffy.
I like that it seems Zoro doesn't have any intention of trying to cut the bird cage.
Either we'd end up with Zoro unnecessarily failing at a task he should never have taken on, or the seemingly invincible bird cage being cut open by one dude.
There would be no particularly good outcome.
As far as the Sabo-Burgess stuff goes, I like that Burgess took a named (and rather awesomely drawn) attack from Sabo but was back up and scrapping again by the end of the chapter.
My only complaint is Burgess' strange attempt at hitting a logia user with a CoA-less attack.
Especially considering the fact that Burgess seems to be using CoA at the end of the chapter.
Yeah, that happens a little frustratingly frequently. I think Zoro's presence is pretty innocuous; according to Aohige's translation it seems like he still intends to destroy the cage, but he looks extremely tasked with just aiding in the stalling. At the very least he won't compromise the drama of the proceedings.
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RE: Chapter 787: "4 minutes"
Sabo hit him with one attack.
Burgess is up and fighting again by the end of chapter.
Does that really qualify as "already losing" to you?
What do you think of the chapter? Zoro didn't cut the bird cage, at least not yet. Burgess vs. Sabo is progressing as I would expect; I imagine you found it to be a continuation of something unsatisfying.
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RE: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken…
just a few more weeks of tantalization
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RE: Chapter 783: Path Blocking
@uniaka:
What? Doflamingo got his organs crushed and still luffy can't deal any damage to him.
True, but I wonder if Luffy will be on the brink of death by the end.
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RE: Chapter 783: Path Blocking
True but the way I see it is like luffy hasn't been able to hit doffy with a single gear 3rd attack Pica only had big slow stone attacks that is crazy powerful and scary but to a guy that can slize a mountain it's not really the ideal power. Now had he faced a crazy fast opponent I think it's fair to say that he would at least get hit a couple of times.
It wasn't simply a bad match-up. Zoro defeated him in a single blow (contest of CoA). It hypes Zoro up nicely and fits in with the lack of truly defined limits post-TS (applying to the crew), but it's fairly obvious that the current arc is substantially less intense than Alabasta or Water 7, at least in terms of fights. I think the manga is characteristically different post-TS, so I have difficulty comparing the two portions directly, but I think it's fairly simple and uncontroversial to say that there hasn't yet been a complete set of satisfying fights (compared to Alabasta/Water 7). Obviously there will be eventually, but it's interesting that even Doflamingo (who was hyped up by "facing" Aokiji and man-handling Smoker) can't pose the necessary challenge.
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RE: Chapter 779: "Final Fight"
This conversation is probably over but I wanted to chip in on Luffy taking a beating from Bellamy. Remember why Luffy didn't fight him in the bar?
I understand what you're saying, but I want to point out that this scene is far less potent than the bar-scene in Jaya (which is, in my opinion, a truly great moment in one piece). At that point in the story, it isn't entirely clear how Bellamy will match up against Luffy so there's legitimate tension when the conflict begins. Then suddenly, out of nowhere, an incredible moment of character development occurs XD and Luffy/Zoro demonstrate the intense ambition/maturity that is until that point limited to characters like Shanks and Zeff (although even in comparison to Shanks' handling of the mountain bandits, Luffy's pacifism appears extreme). Initially it seems bizarre and Nami's frustration mirrors the reader's, but the progression from complete devastation as Zoro and Luffy are beaten to a pulp to catharsis beginning with Blackbeard's epic speech and ending with the final confrontation justified the initial torture. I don't think there has been a sequence of equal poignancy since the time-skip, and I don't think there will be until we're at the point where we're no longer wondering about how much progress was made during the break and focused on growth post-TS.
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RE: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi
The guy is most likely Shigure's adoptive brother. I think it's an interesting development; on a side note, Shigure's fights always have some extra flavor XD
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RE: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi
fanservice at full force this chapter.
Yeah, but I'm pretty desensitized at this point. Shigure's escape was nice, and this new master could be a cool ally
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RE: Chapter 725 "The undefeated woman"
well, while kizaru was watching apu, he didn't even know that his hand was cut off until seconds later
It isn't necessary to conform to this logic, but if they were in a constantly fluid form then it would be incredibly annoying to perform the most menial tasks (maintaining their natural physical structure). You could make some convoluted argument about how their intangibility only manifests when they're punctured or something similarly ridiculous. Either way, for all intents and purposes, logia users at this stage in the manga will be impervious to attacks that aren't haki-reinforced or aided by some natural weakness. Kizaru may act oblivious, but he is still an apt haki user and he was in the middle of a battle (so it's safe to assume he was taking some pre-caution, at least whatever minimal effort is required of logia users to become intangible)
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RE: Chapter 725 "The undefeated woman"
When you eat a Logia DF you instantly have a fluid like body. Although Haki users can hit you and if your DF has a weakness like Crocos is water then you can be hit. What Crocos was saying is that the more you learn about and discover your devil fruit the better you get. It's like Luffy learnt how to use gear second and gear third. That came from learning and "testing" (as Luffy said) before he used gear second and third. If we use the example of Luffy when he ate the Gomu Gomu fruit, the effects were within a few seconds, I can't see why Logia isn't the same. Luffy didn't have to train his DF to take round bullets or be stretchy. Came naturally if that makes sense.
When Luffy torpedoes into Smoker, who is catapulted into Ace (at the restaurant in Arabasta), both logia users have completely physical forms. When Kizaru initially lands at Sabaody, there are two fodder pirates who hope to kill him by shooting him without any warning, and I remember, at least in the anime, Crocodile mentioning his development of instinctive dodging. In any case, it should be obvious that logia users aren't in a constantly fluid state.
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RE: Chapter 725 "The undefeated woman"
I imagine there's a good chance that Burgess will fight Fujitora, seeing as how Fujitora left the big battle between strawhats and doflamingo to fly somewhere else he must be headed to the Coliseum and I don't think there's anyone admiral level besides Jesus
There's really not many people here who could give Jesus a tough fight, I think even Luffy is out matched here
There's no doubt that he's strong, but he shouldn't be able to defeat Fujitora. There may be a short skirmish, but I don't think Burgess will wait around long
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RE: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi
Wow.
Have we ever seen Akisame go this far?
I thought it was strange how unsympathetic he seemed considering how he essentially served as Shigure's guardian. Then the next page…!!!
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RE: History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi
I wonder how the elder is going to turn the tables
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RE: Chapter 725 "The undefeated woman"
The plot continues to thicken. It was extremely thick already…
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RE: Fall 2013 Anime Extravaganza Bonanza
I found Kill La Kill entertaining, but the scale of the premise doesn't promise many interesting developments. Nonetheless, the animation is great and at least the fan-service serves a comedic purpose. I'm not used to searching so many different shows for something watchable, I wish there were a better reference system (something analogous to imdb for movies/tv). I guess it's sort of interesting to dabble
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RE: One Piece 724 : Law’s Plan.
That's what happens when people do not reread a 700+ chapter series even though it's going on for more than half of their life already or… simply didn't pay attention while reading during the first time. :'(
I've never once been surprised by a quote from any portion of the manga. I'm confident enough in my retention of the entire series that I could probably describe to you everything that has happened so far scene by scene. I realize that's an untestable claim, but you have no reason to be so condescending. This is completely a matter of interpretation, so let's not pretend it can be resolved by simply pointing to one panel of dialogue. I haven't once said that Blackbeard won't be a significant antagonist. I think it's presumptuous to say he will be demonstrably the strongest character in one piece and that Luffy will assume that title (and the entire plot will be resolved) by defeating him. That is truly the extent of my argument, and yet I'm the one who is supposedly stubbornly ignorant lol
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RE: One Piece 724 : Law’s Plan.
Luffy finding One Piece will take him on a journey further than Roger. That journey will require him to defeat the strongest powers in OP. The only way he can do this is if he's stronger than them. Your assumption is only taking into consideration that Luffy's journey will end in the same place as Rogers.
Not at all. You're making the assumption that Luffy's path to One Piece will, for some inexpressible reason, include making a clear distinction in combat strength between himself and EVERYONE else (despite the fact that Roger's clearly didn't).
Here's a more accurate translation.
[http://www.batoto.net/read/_/47377/one-piece_ch52_by_onepiecefag-nep-ece/12M](http://www.batoto.net/read/_/47377/one-piece_ch52_by_onepiecefag-nep-ece/12)ihawk is talking about being at the top of world (meaning he's the #1 swordsman). Then when he asks Luffy on the following page what his dream is. Luffy says to be a pirate king. He laughs and says that's even tougher than surpassing myself (Zoro's goal). Which implies that to become the pirate king is at a even higher level goal above Mihawk #1 Swordsman rank.
tl;dr Pirate King >?????> #1 Swordsman
In chapter 51 Mihawk asks Zoro why he seeks the "ultimate power." The dialogue of this scene is consistently portrayed as such in the anime, but I've found only two different manga translations of it (one saying exactly that, and the other something completely different). By the way, it's true Oda himself doesn't write the data books. However, they're written according to information directly provided by Oda, so I don't think you can really discredit the databook passage that characterizes Zoro as Luffy's equal in battle.
@Gol:
It's not a requirement but Oda's set up Luffy to exceed Roger. So no reason for Oda to exactly mirror Roger's circumstances or whatnot with Luffy's. Combat-terms included.
He's a reflection of Roger, as commented by people of Roger's generation, but there are certain differences between their destinies/journeys that places Luffy in a position to step out of the mirror as a reflection and stand above and beyond Roger.
Why Combat-terms included? That will never be demonstrated. He will surpass Roger in a very specific way; his discovery of one piece will have arguably greater consequences, that has absolutely nothing to do with relative strength.
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RE: One Piece 724 : Law’s Plan.
SERIOUSLY are half of you all that IGNORANT???? Is been stated and written in some ways by Oda that to become the Pirate king means Surpassing everyone and everything, standing at the top… Y'all already know me, I don't pull shit assumptions and "this manga went to shit cuz of this, so I don't want to see this happen in this manga" kind of thing... Here is couple of chapters, some characters who have known Roger and know what strength is says it clearly->
! http://i40.mangapanda.com/one-piece/52/one-piece-2421587.jpg Mihawk said clearly "Becoming pirate king is tougher than surpassing me"
http://img.mangahit.com/manga/0968/053885/04.jpg Not to long ago chapter, Chinjao states the samething- "People like Luffy full the sea(Kid, Law, Blackbeard etc) and they all fighting equally for the same title, but to become pirate king Luffy has to challenge and stand above all this people" I still got more, in beginning of One piece, Luffy says "I will become the pirate king" and Shanks in a serious tune/face replies "That means you have to surpass us, become stronger than us" and Luffy says "yes, I will gather a crew that will surpass you guys"…Wait I'm not done, let's add the fact that BLACKBEARD will be one of the strongest in One piece soon enough, even the likes of Law, Kidd and co won't stand a chance against him just like Bonney, then Luffy ends up defeating him. I think this enough to show/prove Luffy is now better/surpassed everyone and by not really fighting against and defeating them, after all Mihawk is world best swordsman but he has never fought Vista before....
So after all this and you still think Luffy is not going to be the strongest at the end of the series then quit reading one piece now, and save yourself the time since you don't want Naruto and Bleach to happen allover again. One piece is now Naruto and Bleach.
No it isn't, and that's exactly the point. We can expect more from one piece. A page earlier in the manga, Mihawk implies that being the best swordsman in the world means wielding the "ultimate power." I'm relying on translations obviously. Roger is an actual example of a Pirate King, and he had equals in strength. Saying that being the pirate king requires that you're stronger (in combat terms) than every other character is obviously false. That shouldn't be the argument.
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RE: One Piece 724 : Law’s Plan.
@Monkey:
No I didn't.
Yes and? The rest?
You said that it's a meaningless comparison, but that has the same effect. Just get to the point.
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RE: One Piece 724 : Law’s Plan.
@Monkey:
No what I want to know is how Luffy reminding people of Roger in any way contradicts anything I've said.
Also Luffy doesn't have these, especially the Whitebeard one.
Let me ask you (and by extension the army of amateurs who adhere to this same talk), what do you think the PURPOSE is of Oda to draw parallels?
Originally you said I couldn't compare Luffy to Roger because Luffy will "surpass" him. Characterizing Luffy as similar to Roger automatically attributes to him the highest order of potential. The series starts, "The Pirate King…who acquired everything of this world..etc etc" and that Luffy is similar in character to him is empowering.
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RE: One Piece 724 : Law’s Plan.
@Monkey:
Meaning Roger couldn't change the entire world and therefore his legend only went so far.
Luffy by being able to act on that, in effect surpasses him. And opens a more dangerous and transformative chapter than Roger ever experienced.The basic idea is that we get to see the quest of the greatest pirate. Monkey D Luffy. Why would Oda show us a guy who just repeats what another guy did.
Are you some sort of Roger obsessed wierdo? You're starting to argue with retarded technicalities like Sanji and Zoro fans "WELL IT DONT REALLY COUNT CUZ HE HAD A WEAPON OR DEVIL FRUIT OR SOMETHIN"
Oda is going to have Luffy surpass the legend because it's a friggin' epic fantasy story. You don't even have to go down to the obvious details. It's in the DNA of the nature of the story and themes.So based on this, the fact that Luffy has reminded characters of Roger since the beginning of the series is irrelevant? The relationships he has that seem potentially similar to those between Roger/Whitebeard and Roger/Garp couldn't possibly progress down that route?
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RE: One Piece 724 : Law’s Plan.
@Monkey:
Hi I'm Roger, doo da doo da doo. Just going on my journey, following the Poneglyphs that I can "hear". Doo da doo da doo. Oops, we did it, we conquered the world's unconquerable sea. Here's Raftel. reads big huge earth shattering revelations.
Oh shit guys, now what. I dunno what to do. I wish I did. I guess we aren't quite on the level, I mean we're just pirates. I can't change the world yet, guess I'll have to try to keep encouraging people to repeat this quest until someone worthy of it can reach this place as we did.
How to do that? Ah yes, I'm dying anyway so I might as well make my death a public spectacle and use my extremely public last words to inflame generations to repeat my quest!On that page, the only lacking capability Rayleigh refers to is the inability to decipher the poneglyphs through academic means. It isn't clear whatsoever how Luffy's discovery of One Piece will differ from Roger's. It will probably occur in tandem with significant actions of the Revolutionary Army, and perhaps ideological changes in the marines fueled by fresh blood like Smoker and Coby (hopefully a return of Aokiji). If you're assuming that Luffy is somehow more intellectually capable, and will somehow use the knowledge more effectively, that's sort of ridiculous.