Actually, before I discuss Shuhan, I'll talk about who I think might be working with Waffles. At least one of the two other mafia have to be experienced players, or possibly (emphasis on the possibly) both of them. Either that or the one mafioso who has experience (unless all three are new and Nectar was voted out by chance) who the other two are following.
I don't know everybody here very well, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong: the new players are Waffles, TheManWithNoName, MagiciteKefka, me, and Koh? If that's right, then :
Maybe I'm just too much of a moron to understand, but I do not think that Waffles and NoName are on the same team (Or maybe I'm only saying that because I'm working with Waffles myself–YAHHH!). NoName's made it clear that he's smart, but his eliminating Waffles would only protect himself, and not the experienced player, who appears to be somewhat in control, as it was his choice who was executed during the first Night.
Koh hasn't posted enough to give me a good read, but I think it's weird that a couple of his posts have just been "I think x is suspicious, but I'm not going to say why". So maybe he's the other inexperienced mafioso, playing passively, possibly under the advice of the experienced mafioso.
NoName has brought up reasons that Kefka and Waffles might both be mafia. If Kefka has no experience, then I think that he might have just not gotten scumhunting and have been unfamiliar with the hostility. That would be pretty consistent, judging from:
Hostility. Isn't it fun? ^.^
and then his response to TheManWithNoName:
I didn't expect all of this to get blown out of proportions like this.
However, what's odd is that he apparently reacted more to suspicion over Waffles than people suspecting him himself. I'm not sure if that's because he learned from Waffles's mistakes or what. So I'm going to wait for him to reply to the thread again.
If I wasn't me, then I ultimately wouldn't think that I was in the mafia either (of course this entire part is going to be biased because I am me, and I am assuming that Waffles is in the mafia), because, like the TMWNN-Waffles scenario, my eliminating Waffles would only protect me, and not the other member of the mafia. Only this time, my suspicious behavior would jeopardize myself as well, so no member of the mafia would be protected.
The nonew players, and assumably ones that know Nectar, would be: xassjjx, Harvady Alumnus, Bogart, Gerri, Foolio, Wooden_Giraffe(again, Hypo-cop), Vorlianis, Elisabeth Heart, Shuhan, Klabautermann
Xassjjx has only 3 posts, really only 1 that counts:
Vote Lynch: Gerri
First you ask what the best way to play the set-up was and then you become extremely aggressive. In past games you switched from being aggressive (Although you've never lynched anyone that quickly before) and focusing on things other than finding the mafia (Such as the "serial killer" in 10, or various mechanics in 13).
This only makes it clear that he knows about other players from the past. Therefore, it's possible that he's one of the two or the single experienced mafioso.
–Bogart:[hide]
You have a problem with it, Gunkan. An emotional one. And you're right, I do take offense to your words, to implications that I have to assume. If it was important enough to mention, it's important enough to state clearly.
I already explained to you why I chose my words. I made no claims of authority; "Pretending" is your word. I'm fully aware how passive-aggression works. Be up front about your issue if you're upset over the way you decided I sound like, or look like. Insults behind a shield of 'joking' are nothing to be chuckling about. It's rude, and I have no respect for you.
Why should anyone listen to you if you're going to undercut your own words? How is that helpful to anyone? And actually saying people are too smart for you? Either you're being sarcastic, or worse, you actually think that. Cut it out.
I have a problem with you now, and I want to resolve it.
Wow, seriously?(, said Gunkan as he threw gas on the fire and proceeded to act like a dick.) If you honestly think I have a problem with abrasiveness, wouldn't I be acting too abrasive for my own standards? I don't mind you being direct. It was when you said "demand" that I actually had to check to see if you were somehow in charge of the game or something, you proud dick.
I said that a couple of people were too smart, because, douchebaggery and dickheadery aside, you guys know this game too well. I've read your posts, and there's not much I can comment on because there's no way for me to concretely figure out whether or not you guys are in the mafia, though my reasoning is below.
In the case that it's difficult to tell because it is the internet, don't take the insults very seriously. Perhaps it was rude, but then again, if you don't like my vocabulary, then you're no better than m– hah. Don't worry, I won't end it like that. I initiated this, and I don't want it to become a thing. How must it be resolved?
[/hide]
Klaubautermann's also got one post:
We most likely won't be able to avoid lynching innocents, even if it makes us look stupid.
All we have is the things people say to scrutinize and although I understand that you are new, being meek and afraid of making faults isn't going to catch us any mafia. :)
I do think TMWNN's accusations are flimsy at best, though.
Is Klaubautermann new or not? I've assumed that she isn't, in which case I'd suspect xassjjx more than her of being part of the mafia.
Wooden_Giraffe I can't comment on because of Hypo-Cop, and Bogart, Harvady Alumnus, and Foolio I can't make a decision on because, while they seem unsuspecting, they appear to have much experience in mafia, so I can't really pass a judgement on them.
Bogart's the one who came up with Hypo-Cop and been hounding Elisabeth for playing passively. I'd find it weird for a mafioso to provide us with a strategy to stop the mafia, unless it was somehow flawed. (see, here's where I don't know enough about mafia to make a good judgement). I'd think that Bogart wouldn't likely provide a flawed strategy because he'd know that somebody else, like Foolio, would point out flaws in it. I think it's somewhat weird to go after Elisabeth for being passive, because there are other players, like Koh, who are also pretty passive too. But I think that Bogart's course of action was reasonable too, as he's prompting her to make him change his mind.
In response to your comment Foolio I'm writing several right now.
Foolio's pointed out problems in Hypo-Cop, and has otherwise been interrogating other players, such as me, for strange behavior. He was the first to vote for Kefka, who currently has three people voting against him, the other two are Wooden_Giraffe and NoName. So, I suppose it is possible to suspect that the three of them are the mafia.
Harvady Alumnus voted to lynch Gerri, and has only three posts, two supporting Hypo-Cop and the other one explaining why he voted to lynch Gerri. There's really nothing I can think of to suspect him.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@vorlianis:
I just wanna correct you something on there, i didn't shot Hypo-Cop down at all, hell i find it an awesome idea, i just shot down Bogarts mention of it trying to make them all fit into 2 hours.
In the post, it sounded like you were saying that the entire strategy wasn't realizable because of the 2 hour limit.
I agree with the Hypo-Cop strategy although having everyone post it in a 2 hour window is near impossible. It would certainly be very good but is it realizable? I'm afraid not.
At the point that i put down the vote there was actually not much more to Shuhan other then his conspiracy thinking, what makes me also think of him as suspicious is why he thinks of that scenario. Just because he thinks TMWNN and Waffles were new to mafia he suspects them of hatching some kind of plot of setting that entire conversation up. The problem i have with it also is that he actually uses it as a basis for his suspicion on them. I don't buy "possible scenarios" as actual basis for suspicion.
Your logic doesn't seem to check out here. Shuhan never actually voted to lynch either of them, and it sounded like, judging from this post:
It wasn't really something I was endorsing, I was merely stating a scenario. Vorlianis kept asking me questions about it, so I felt obligated to explain my reasoning, so I continued the talk. If you ask me questions, I will answer them.
Or even earlier, before you had voted, when he agreed that it was far-fetched.
It is far-fetched, but not out of the realm of possibility
that he was only saying it just as extra security. If anything, he was doing so to help find the mafia. I understand that you just wanted to go easy on newcomers, but it's weird to vote to lynch him for doing nothing but exploring possibilities.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Shuhan1288: Hah, interestingly enough he's actually voted to lynch NoName just now. But vorlianis, you still voted to lynch Shuhan a while ago, and Shuhan, unless I'm mistaken, didn't vote for NoName because he thought he was working with Waffles.
I think Shuhan's reasoning is poor to vote off TMWNN. Just because the guy didn't feel like rereading doesn't mean he doesn't want to help. He even said that he did reread it after the post you quoted:
I did read their posts, I just had a fresh reread from the beginning of the game until now.
And wait, aren't you calling NoName town right here?
It is very town to believe that the mafia are dirty underhanded people that would step on each other just to reach their goals. But hey, you have an opinion and I won't stop you from having it. I am just calling you out on the fact that you don't seem to like that I brought negative light on you.
More to come.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Shuhan:
I'm still going act as if I'm assuming that Waffles is mafia, because I find his actions too damn weird to be town, even if he's new.
I would describe my play as just trying to get a feel for everyone playing. I may not have been saying much, but I have been paying attention and plan on acting on my suspicions.
I find it sort of ironic that he voted to lynch someone for not wanting to help find the mafia, when he himself said that he's not saying much. And also you haven't been paying attention, or you wouldn't have voted for NoName for the reason I posted above. However, unless you're a really stupid mafioso and you thought you could trick everybody (which I doubt), this doesn't make you suspicious, only stupid if anything.
It seems that those known to be very good scum hunters will be under heavy danger… we need to hit the Mafia hard today.
The cop should only reveal if they have a guilty, if that answers your question Gerri. If our only weapons are lynching and the cop, then we need to protect the cop at all costs. Seeing as there are only three mafia, we need to be vigilant and scrutinize everything.
The first part confirms that you knew Nectar was a good player, which might mean he's in the mafia. However, he seems to be alert and, and he said, scrutinizing everything. And I doubt that acting meticulous cover for him, because I doubt he'd think he could trick us by voting for TMWNN. But he did bring up here:
You yourself Bogart, I also believe that you are town. You have done nothing but make sure people keep on talking and making sure that people remain active. Any mafia trying that would be signing their own death warrant.
that he thinks that that strategy ensures that a person is town.