Potential bad news for fansubs
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Now wait a second here. Giving Ulrilra the benefit of the doubt for a moment, what's the problem here?
You've bought the DVD release. Why do you need fansubs then?
Why support a fansub that does nothing for you and only hurts the industry for everybody else?
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Buying Japanese DVDs and looking at scripts on your computer while you watch them? Wow. What a huge pain in the ass.
Tell me how I could prove to you that Funimation's sub isn't good. I couldn't. There's no method of doing it. And there's also no way you could prove it to me. That's not what we're arguing about though, is it?
See, that just proves my theory that you're being a spoiled fan that rather have everything be convienent instead of being a fan in the literal sense. Also, you don't have to look at the script and the DVD back-and-forth. Any fan can easily remember what they've read in a script once they start seeing the actual footage, it comes back to them 'cause they're really interested in the story and because visuals and sound itself are a more universal language.
My god you're an idiot. You wanna know how you and anyone else can prove FUNimation's subs aren't as good or are good/better? GO BUY/RENT THE DAMN DVDS WHEN THEY COME OUT AND COMPARE BOTH IT AND THE FANSUB TRACK TO THE ORIGINAL TRANSLATIONS!! Jeez. When FUNimation announced how they'd be remastering "DBZ" and fans got in a tizzy on how the picture quality would be ruined, they didn't sit on their asses and whine. When the first boxset came out, some very notable fans who were complaining from the beginning actually went and bought it to prove to themselves that they were right. And guess what happened? They uploaded their findings of the widescreen flaws from their DVDs on the Internet and showed other fans just how bad it really was. Some of them even went ahead and imported the higher-quality DVDs from Japan instead of using the fansubs, even when they had no English subtitle track since they were either fluent in Japanese or just so familiar with the story in the first place they didn't need to know what the characters were saying to know what was going on.
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Point out the frequent spelling errors, the unsynced subs, the missing dialogue, and incorrect translations.
Well then I guess they're not as bad as you're making them out to be.
No, but getting you to say that not having karaoke openings, special graphics during attacks, and occasional use of Japanese words are what make Funi's subs worthless would be !@#$ing hilarious.
Having karaoke openings, special graphics during attacks, and occasional use of Japanese words make K-F better. There. I said it. That's my opinion, not my stance. My stance is that K-F shouldn't have to take down their episodes just because Funi is subbing them.
Yeah, I bet. Really.
I buy a shitload of Japanese OP merchandise. Look in the manga forum. I scanned all three databooks, Colorwalk3, Grand Paper Adventure, and 10th Treasures. I also own a number of other books, movie 7, and the first two season boxsets.
I don't see why I have to tell you that though. Telling me I'm a liar is like resorting to bashing. Why are you doing that?
See, that just proves my theory that you're being a spoiled fan that rather have everything be convienent instead of being a fan in the literal sense. Also, you don't have to look at the script and the DVD back-and-forth. Any fan can easily remember what they've read in a script once they start seeing the actual footage, it comes back to them 'cause they're really interested in the story and because visuals and sound itself are a more universal language.
My god you're an idiot. You wanna know how you and anyone else can prove FUNimation's subs aren't as good or are good/better? GO BUY/RENT THE DAMN DVDS WHEN THEY COME OUT AND COMPARE BOTH IT AND THE FANSUB TRACK TO THE ORIGINAL TRANSLATIONS!! Jeez. When FUNimation announced how they'd be remastering "DBZ" and fans got in a tizzy on how the picture quality would be ruined, they didn't sit on their asses and whine. When the first boxset came out, some very notable fans who were complaining from the beginning actually went and bought it to prove to themselves that they were right. And guess what happened? They uploaded their findings of the widescreen flaws from their DVDs on the Internet and showed other fans just how bad it really was. Some of them even went ahead and imported the higher-quality DVDs from Japan instead of using the fansubs, even when they had no English subtitle track since they were either fluent in Japanese or just so familiar with the story in the first place they didn't need to know what the characters were saying to know what was going on.
I think I already admitted somewhere in this post that I am a spoiled fan who prefers to watch anime for free, but if I didn't I admit it now. I don't see the problem.
I'm an idiot? Pretty hostile there, huh? Have I once made a personal assault on you in this entire conversation? Well whatever, I'll admit I have a prejudice against English licensed anime, regardless of how good it might be compared to others. As I just said, what I want is for fansubs not to be forced off the net
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To all people saying kaizoku fansubs should quit have you ever though US is not the world, just because Funimation releases One Piece in US doesn't mean there isn't still plenty of people in other countries that Funimation doesn't have business and don't have any company releasing One Piece and that those people actually use the kaizoku fansubs
Just look at some of the users at Kaizoku's Fansubs and you'll see people from countries other then US
And I haven't seem anyone make a response when this question was asked before
And just so you know I don't even see the anime
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I buy a shitload of Japanese OP merchandise. Look in the manga forum. I scanned all three databooks, Colorwalk3, Grand Paper Adventure, and 10th Treasures. I also own a number of other books, movie 7, and the first two season boxsets.
I don't see why I have to tell you that though. Telling me I'm a liar is like resorting to bashing. Why are you doing that?
I think I already admitted somewhere in this post that I am a spoiled fan who prefers to watch anime for free, but if I didn't I admit it now. I don't see the problem.
I'm an idiot? Pretty hostile there, huh? Have I once made a personal assault on you in this entire conversation? Well whatever, I'll admit I have a prejudice against English licensed anime, regardless of how good it might be compared to others. As I just said, what I want is for fansubs not to be forced off the net
I'm sorry if some us are being hostile towards you, but the fact is I can longer take you seriously, that's when I start losing my etiquette, and it's not like I'm being dishonest. You just said there's no way you can prove that the subs of FUNi are better or worse when it's obvious you can. I'm quickly seeing you as the stereotypical fansub lover who feels entitled to getting everything for free and as soon as possible even when you don't deserve it, no matter how much you like it, and feels justified to get upset when the companies that actually work on the anime and want it to be successful try to stop fansubs.
And you buy the products? Keep doing that, but what's the point of still using fansubs when you have the DVDs then?
Now I feel compelled to post this:http://media-alt.rightstuf.com/podcast/animetoday/05/animetoday058.mp3
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Having karaoke openings, special graphics during attacks, and occasional use of Japanese words make K-F better. There. I said it.
Not quite. You tell me those things make a big enough difference that it puts K-F's subs in a league so far above Funi that they can't be compared. Then I'll get my laugh.
That's my opinion, not my stance. My stance is that K-F shouldn't have to take down their episodes just because Funi is subbing them.
Then your stance is wrong. They should.
Funi COULD tell them to do it, and legally they may be required to do so, but they shouldn't have to.I don't see why I have to tell you that though. Telling me I'm a liar is like resorting to bashing. Why are you doing that?
Actually, as far as I know, calling somebody a liar doesn't count as bashing. I recently got a 'mark' for defending myself against such a claim.
I think I already admitted somewhere in this post that I am a spoiled fan who prefers to watch anime for free, but if I didn't I admit it now. I don't see the problem.
Well if you're going to admit you're a spoiled fan I doubt you'll find anybody here that will disagree with you. However, not seeing the problem in being a spoiled fan makes you look like… well, a spoiled fan. But then, you already knew that.
I guess all that's left is to drive in exactly why being a spoiled fan is wrong, which is really difficult as people who are admittedly brats don't really care if people call them brats. You realize you're wrong, you just don't care.
I'm an idiot? Pretty hostile there, huh? Have I once made a personal assault on you in this entire conversation?
I don't know about the others, but I find your overall ignorance of the American anime industry and attempts to spread said ignorance pretty insulting.
Well whatever, I'll admit I have a prejudice against English licensed anime, regardless of how good it might be compared to others. As I just said, what I want is for fansubs not to be forced off the net
Which makes you harmful to the anime industry as a whole, and thus, a bad person by the standards of these forums.
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To all people saying kaizoku fansubs should quit have you ever though US is not the world, just because Funimation releases One Piece in US doesn't mean there isn't still plenty of people in other countries that Funimation doesn't have business and don't have any company releasing One Piece and that those people actually use the kaizoku fansubs
Just look at some of the users at Kaizoku's Fansubs and you'll see people from countries other then US
And I haven't seem anyone make a response when this question was asked before
And just so you know I don't even see the anime
That issue has already been discussed in this thread. Even if you live outside of the United States, you can still easily aquire FUNimations official releases through the internet and several other different sources. I purchase the Original Region 2 Japanese DVDs for the Yu-Gi-Oh! and Dragonball franchise from Japan, and the Australlian(sp?) Region 4 Dragon Ball Saga DVD boxsets and play them on my Region Free DVD player and/or PC.
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To all people saying kaizoku fansubs should quit have you ever though US is not the world, just because Funimation releases One Piece in US doesn't mean there isn't still plenty of people in other countries that Funimation doesn't have business and don't have any company releasing One Piece and that those people actually use the kaizoku fansubs
Just look at some of the users at Kaizoku's Fansubs and you'll see people from countries other then US
And I haven't seem anyone make a response when this question was asked before
That is a difficult question to answer. The only two answers are really "Sucks to be you. Import." or "Oh sure. Cut into Funi's profits when the entire industry is already hurting just so you can watch something that's been both harmless and readily available for years."
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I would never have gotten into One Piece if it weren't for K-F and other fansub groups. When K-F comes out with a new episode, look how many thousands of people download the torrent. How many of those people do you think would be willing to buy the box sets?
I want One Piece to be enjoyed by as many people as possible, and online sharing is the way for that to happen. Online sharing is not so detrimental to toei that it could force them to stop broadcasting the anime. Sorry.
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Have you NOT read the recent problems with fansubs and how they're harmful to the industry and respective series?
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That issue has already been discussed in this thread. Even if you live outside of the United States, you can still easily aquire FUNimations official releases through the internet and several other different sources. I purchase the Original Region 2 Japanese DVDs for the Yu-Gi-Oh! and Dragonball franchise from Japan, and the Australlian(sp?) Region 4 Dragon Ball Saga DVD boxsets and play them on my Region Free DVD player and/or PC.
Are you really sure that people in other countries can easilly get their hand in Funimation One Piece because I know for certain that many countries have huge problems with customs and sometimes packages even disappear
@Charagon Also why should people from outside the US feed Funimation release with their money when Funimation isn't releasing in their country (doesn't seem to me that those people are hurting the US anime market since their not part of it)
Was for buying the originals from Japan I could agree because they are supporting the creators of the anime; but Funimation isn't (the creator), they just bought the license to release in US soil
And I am only questioning because people I know do not have the means to buy Funimation from their country and don't have enough japanese knowledge to buy and fully understand japanese
But like I said I'm not gonna make a huge horse about it because I really don't care much for the anime
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Have you NOT read the recent problems with fansubs and how they're harmful to the industry and respective series?
Well OF COURSE they're harmful to the industry. And OF COURSE that's being broadcast. They want it to stop happening. But it isn't so bad that it would force them to go under. For instance, even though movie 8 can be easily obtained online, have you seen the reports of what a monstrous sum of money toei has made off it? And they still have tens of thousands of Japanese viewers watching the episodes weekly.
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I'm probably taking this conversation too seriously by now (:getlost:) but here it is, from the owner of K-F himself. (btw he gave me permission to post this):
[21:21] <ulrilra>What's your opinion on whether K-F should have to remove the torrents of their episodes as Funimation subtitles them?
[21:37] <dyhtim>its more a question of what funimations opinion is >>
[21:37] <ulrilra>What do you mean?
[21:37] <dyhtim>if they say we have to we will
[21:37] <dyhtim>if they dont we wont
[21:37] <ulrilra>Because you'll get sued otherwise? :/
[21:38] <dyhtim>thats not the legal prededent
[21:38] <dyhtim>they have to send a c&d
[21:38] <ulrilra>So you mean you'd stop before they sent that?
[21:38] <dyhtim>no, we would stop if they sent one
[21:39] <ulrilra>Oh, okay. But do you personally think it's the "right thing to do" to remove the torrents of episodes that Funimation has already subbed?
[21:39] <dyhtim>i try not to think too much about morality, it hurts my brain
[21:42] <ulrilra>Well, you think Funimation is better than 4kids, right? Do you think think that they're so good that there's no need for fansubs of the episodes for which licensed subs have come out?
[21:47] <ulrilra>Sorry if I'm asking too many questions. I'm just really curious about what the opinion of the fansubbers themselves is..
[21:50] <dyhtim>i do think that, yes o.o
[21:51] <ulrilra>Really??
[21:51] <ulrilra>Why?
[21:51] <dyhtim>that theyre better than 4kids
[21:51] <ulrilra>Oh
[21:51] <ulrilra>Well yeah
[21:51] <ulrilra>But about the other question
[21:51] <dyhtim>other question doesnt seem relevant
[21:51] <ulrilra>Do you not want to answer it?
[21:52] <dyhtim>i think what i think doesnt really matter
[21:53] <ulrilra>I think alot of people don't think that what you think doesn't matter.
[21:53] <ulrilra>3 thinks.
[21:53] <dyhtim>>> touche
[21:53] <dyhtim>but if i think that what they think about what i think doesnt matter…
[21:54] <ulrilra>I think it's bad to think about people thinking in a way that causing you to think negatively about how you think.
[21:54] <dyhtim>true…
[21:55] <dyhtim>well in any event, we wont stop unless they tell us to
[21:55] <dyhtim>and us continuing isnt about what we think of their subs, its just because we want to</dyhtim></dyhtim></dyhtim></ulrilra></dyhtim></dyhtim></ulrilra></ulrilra></dyhtim></ulrilra></dyhtim></ulrilra></ulrilra></ulrilra></dyhtim></ulrilra></ulrilra></dyhtim></ulrilra></ulrilra></dyhtim></ulrilra></dyhtim></ulrilra></dyhtim></dyhtim></ulrilra></dyhtim></dyhtim></ulrilra></dyhtim></ulrilra> -
Have you NOT read the recent problems with fansubs and how they're harmful to the industry and respective series?
He's made it clear that he doesn't know about what goes on in the anime industry. He also said that he thinks fansubs aren't a major cause of the decline in the industry (even when you don't need to statistics to see how obvious it is).
And Darky, how could you say FUNimation isn't supporting the original Japanese creators? That doesn't make any sense. FUNimation paid a licensing fee to get "One Piece", Toei Animation gets royalties from FUNimation's sales because its their licensed product. It's common sense really.
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I would never have gotten into One Piece if it weren't for K-F and other fansub groups.
Me neither. On the other hand, if Funi had gotten One Piece in the beginning, I wouldn't have had to go to K-F in the first place.
When K-F comes out with a new episode, look how many thousands of people download the torrent. How many of those people do you think would be willing to buy the box sets?
Well I guess that'll distinguish the fans from the pricks then.
I want One Piece to be enjoyed by as many people as possible, and online sharing is the way for that to happen. Online sharing is not so detrimental to toei that it could force them to stop broadcasting the anime. Sorry.
A kick to the nuts isn't so harmful to you that it'd kill you. I'll bet you still try to discourage it.
Also why should people from outside the US feed Funimation release with their money when Funimation isn't releasing in their country
Was for buying the originals from Japan I could agree because they are supporting the creators of the series, but Funimation isn't, they just bought the license to release in US soilThey're also the ones that translated it into a language you understand and put it on DVD.
It sucks that they don't sell directly to you, and I totally see your point in this, but the fact is K-F will very soon be illegally distributing a product that is in direct competition to the legitimate release. In the end, I'd rather support the industry and make you import than hurt it so you can watch for free.
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Me neither. On the other hand, if Funi had gotten One Piece in the beginning, I wouldn't have had to go to K-F in the first place.
Well I guess that'll distinguish the fans from the pricks then.
A kick to the nuts isn't so harmful to you that it'd kill you. I'll bet you still try to discourage it.
They're also the ones that translated it into a language you understand and put it on DVD.
It sucks that they don't sell directly to you, and I totally see your point in this, but the fact is K-F will very soon be illegally distributing a product that is in direct competition to the legitimate release. In the end, I'd rather support the industry and make you import than hurt it so you can watch for free.
It's more like a kick in the shins. But either way, you just admitted that it's not bad enough to get them to stop broadcasting.
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He's made it clear that he doesn't know about what goes on in the anime industry. He also said that he thinks fansubs aren't a major cause of the decline in the industry (even when you don't need to statistics to see how obvious it is).
And Darky, how could you say FUNimation isn't supporting the original Japanese creators? That doesn't make any sense. FUNimation paid a licensing fee to get "One Piece", Toei Animation gets royalties from FUNimation's sales because its their licensed product. It's common sense really.
Sorry to say but do you really think Funimation is releasing One Piece from the goodness of their hearts; come on they are gonna have much income even ater paying the royalties
If you want to support the anime the buy Toei's original japanese there will be no middle man and you are sure all the money goes to the creators
@Charagon Why do you say it sucks to be me ??
And was far was I know unless Kaizoku Fansubs receives a letter to cease and desist they can proceed
You admit to being selfish them there nothing from stopping US people from buying Funimations release you can always support the industry even with Kaizoku Fansubs working (nobody draws a gun to your head and forces you to dl fansubs)
Also the conversation about the market being injured by fansubs it's to some level true but not like they tell about huge losses
But I'm not going any further into it because that type of debate doesn't really belong here
Now I'll say goodbye
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It's more like a kick in the shins. But either way, you just admitted that it's not bad enough to get them to stop broadcasting.
It doesn't matter if it's enough to stop them from broadcasting. For crying out loud, what kind of rational is that? It's okay as long as they keep airing?
"So what if I stabbed the guy in the leg with a steak knife. He lived."
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Goddamnit, so many posts in such a short amount of time, so many to quote and rebuttle against.
I'm gonna go take a shower and then watch my officially-licensed "One Piece Movie 8" DVD that I just bought today with the English dub track on.
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Ulrilra, since you seem to know japanese, and Dythim does too, you should both go and buy the Japanese box sets and watch them yourselves and let the real fans do the RIGHT THING. Honestly, screw you guys.
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Actually I do own the DVDs… that's what we use to release.
And One Piece isn't released in box sets.Anyway, it's time for a "back on topic" poke here.
If you want to flame some more, you'll have to make a thread for it. :/
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Because for the X number of years they were doing it before Funi got the license NOBODY was doing 'their job'.
And get off the professional thing. K-F Fansubs are highly regarded for a reason.
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Man, you sure are high and mighty huh? You go and take money away from Oda and yet you still call yourself a fan. Unlike kaizoku-fansubs, Funimation consists of PROFFESSIONALS. Why don't you let them do the job?
There's no need for personal attacks.
And while I do believe that fansubs are potentially very harmful, let's examine some facts:
KF did buy the DVDs. At least they supported the original version in that way, even if they did make it possible for hundreds of thousands of people to view the series illegally.
One Piece may never have become as popular without their work. If that happened, the odds of a FUNimation resurrection of the series would have been slimmer.
Now, I do firmly believe that the earlier episodes should no longer be available now that FUNi is making them legally available (and to the person who mentioned the 4Kids DVDs…those were edited and dub only. FUNi will be releasing the original Japanese version with subtitles. It's a completely different scenario)
But let's not start making attacks on one another. It's hardly civil.
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There's no need for personal attacks.
And while I do believe that fansubs are potentially very harmful, let's examine some facts:
KF did buy the DVDs. At least they supported the original version in that way, even if they did make it possible for hundreds of thousands of people to view the series illegally.
One Piece may never have become as popular without their work. If that happened, the odds of a FUNimation resurrection of the series would have been slimmer.
Now, I do firmly believe that the earlier episodes should no longer be available now that FUNi is making them legally available (and to the person who mentioned the 4Kids DVDs…those were edited and dub only. FUNi will be releasing the original Japanese version with subtitles. It's a completely different scenario)
But let's not start making attacks on one another. It's hardly civil.
This is absolutely correct. I would venture to say that K-F has done more for One Piece than any other fansubbing group has done for their show, which is why I think they should continue that high standard of fandom by voluntarily discontinuing episodes 1-13. The actual effects of discontinuing these episodes would be minimal (a good torrent never dies), but the message it would send would be great.
We all jumped for joy when we found out Funi acquired One Piece from 4Kids. The nightmare was finally over. Funi saved One Piece, and they did it for us. They've listened to us and valued our input from Day 1. It would be dishonorable to do something that would be in any way harmful to them at this juncture.
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This is absolutely correct. I would venture to say that K-F has done more for One Piece than any other fansubbing group has done for their show, which is why I think they should continue that high standard of fandom by voluntarily discontinuing episodes 1-13. The actual effects of discontinuing these episodes would be minimal (a good torrent never dies), but the message it would send would be great.
We all jumped for joy when we found out Funi acquired One Piece from 4Kids. The nightmare was finally over. Funi saved One Piece, and they did it for us. They've listened to us and valued our input from Day 1. It would be dishonorable to do something that would be in any way harmful to them at this juncture.
Well I'll always have to disagree with this. Fansubs and licensed subs are two entirely different things. If Funimation really cares about the OP fandom, they should recognize what great things K-F has done for it and allow it to continue, especially since OP fansubs will continue to be all over the internet and easy to access either way.
I prefer seeing "nakama" and "mikan". I like the cool graphics they use with the text when Luffy says "Gomu Gomu no STORM!!!" I like how they use different types of text and put it in different places depending on the context. K-F is an expression of fans' love for One Piece, and I'd really hate to see any of their work taken down. I know alot of people disagree with me, but that's where I stand. Good night.
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Well I'll always have to disagree with this. Fansubs and licensed subs are two entirely different things. If Funimation really cares about the OP fandom, they should recognize what great things K-F has done for it and allow it to continue,
Doesn't that work both ways though? If K-F really cares about the OP fandom then shouldn't they recognize what great things Funi has done for it and not do things that could harm them?
I prefer seeing "nakama" and "mikan". I like the cool graphics they use with the text when Luffy says "Gomu Gomu no STORM!!!" I like how they use different types of text and put it in different places depending on the context.
I love all that stuff as well, and if I ever want to watch it like that it's not like K-F's episodes would be eternally unattainable. I've got up to Skypiea on DVD somewhere around here and the internet will never let them be completely erased. It'd be a sign of good faith more than anything else.
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Doesn't that work both ways though? If K-F really cares about the OP fandom then shouldn't they recognize what great things Funi has done for it and not do things that could harm them?
I love all that stuff as well, and if I ever want to watch it like that it's not like K-F's episodes would be eternally unattainable. I've got up to Skypiea on DVD somewhere around here and the internet will never let them be completely erased. It'd be a sign of good faith more than anything else.
Okay, I'll contend. It works both ways. So it's a matter of opinion which way it should work.
I think K-F does more for One Piece than Funimation, so Funimation shouldn't do things that could potentially harm K-F. You think Funimation does more for One Piece than K-F, so K-F shouldn't do things that could potentially harm Funimation.
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(a good torrent never dies)
It does if no one is seeding it
We all jumped for joy when we found out Funi acquired One Piece from 4Kids. The nightmare was finally over. Funi saved One Piece, and they did it for us. They've listened to us and valued our input from Day 1. It would be dishonorable to do something that would be in any way harmful to them at this juncture.
I didn't
Also I don't think they picked One Piece up solely for the fans my best guess is they saw how 4Kids jacked it up and figured they could make some change off it just like they've done and still are doing with DragonBall. Sometimes I tend wonder what would've happened had Viz licensed it, probably be a lot of unwarranted criticism from retarded fanboys like with Naruto. If Funi really does care about One Piece and it's fans it makes me wonder how much they cared about DragonBall given how shoddy it turned out.
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@Sandai:
It does if no one is seeding it
That's exactly why K-F removing torrents wouldn't just be "a good message". It would be harmful to K-F, to fans of K-F, and to leechers across the world.
@Sandai:
I didn't
Who was it again that said I was the only one? :getlost:
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That's exactly why K-F removing torrents wouldn't just be "a good message". It would be harmful to K-F, to fans of K-F, and to leechers across the world.
They could always fansub a series that hasn't been done fansubbed but it's Dythim's as to the fate of KF should that come to pass.
Who was it again that said I was the only one? :getlost:
I didn't mean for it to sound bad but in all honesty I was mostly indifferent to them licensing the series surprised somewhat but indifferent nonetheless.
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@Sandai:
They could always fansub a series that hasn't been done fansubbed.
You mean K-F sub something other than One Piece? :blink:
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It's just a thought I mean why close shop should One Piece end or if they have to stop subbing the series.
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Thanks to Dythim for letting you post that transcript.
Now I'm gonna try to not put words in his mouth (if I'm wrong, plz someone correct me), but can we at least agree that K-F in particular holds no ill will towards Funimation?
They're not saying Funi's subs are flawed, and theirs are better. Can we stop making claims like this now?
edit: btw ulrilra, saying you at least bought japanese dvd's waaay earlier in the thread may have saved us a lot of confusion.
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tarrin:
I foolishly thought this thread would be about the potential ramifications of the legal action against uploaders in Japan.And since it is no longer about that, I shall retire its poor soul.