These Kuma clones are a lot weaker than the prototype that Zoro faced (the prototype being the actual Shichibukai member).
For one, there's no way that they have the original's devil fruit, and two, the original definitely would not have been blown back by Franky's attack.
Is Hawkins a Scare Crow?
There is a chapter this coming week, or is Oda taking two weeks off, I am not sure from what I'm seeing in the thread.
As for a complete sentence, it really doesn't matter, a line does not need to be a complete sentence, it simply needs to be standalone. "Buggy!" is standalone, a complete thought, regardless of its merits as a 'sentence', it is a line, and therefore Zoro has three lines this chapter.
I really think that Kizaru is going to going to be fighting the Strawhats very, very soon, he doesn't care about the other rookies, he's not going to take them out unless they get in his way. He specifically came to the island to take out the strawhats because the strawhats hit the noble, if that hadn't happened, he would not be there, and he has other business to attend to and promised his command that it wouldn't take a lot of time.
He plans to go in, deal with the strawhats, and immediately go back, he's not there to play, the other rookies are safe unless they are stupid.
Mokke:
If i remember correctly, swordsmen cut only what they want to cut, and this time Zoro thought Kuma was human and not metal, he made a strike that would hurt humans, just like hes sensei thought him http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/194/15/ .
So if Zoro knew hes was going to cut metal, he would have cut Kuma. (Just a theory)
If Zoro were capable of cutting Kuma he would not have offered up his life for Luffy's, he would have defeated Kuma. It's obvious that Zoro knew outright that he stood no chance against Kuma after his attempted Lion's Song, and this is why he offered up his head, it was his duty as the first mate to protect the crew and the Captain if the Captain could not do so himself, so Zoro decided that he only had one option and followed through with it for the sake of his nakama.
Well considering the fact that Bepo screamed out "Captain!" immediately following that was just my assumption.
I am not impressed like everyone else seems to be by Law dodging the laser, to me that doesn't imply anything.
Zoro was able to constantly dodge all of Kuma's attacks, it doesn't matter if you can avoid his damage though unless you have a method to actually harm Kuma you can't win. The space movement ability that Law has might give him the ability to hit Kuma by separating him, but if Zoro's strongest attacks were only capable of cutting Kuma's CLOTHING I doubt either Kidd or Law can damage Kuma either.
I do believe; however, that With Law and Kidd's abilities combined, they will be able to stall Kuma long enough to get away.
So far Kuma hasn't even come close to using his abilities to the fullest against Kidd or Law, he's just using his most basic and easiest to avoid attack, the mouth laser that Zoro was capable of dodging while severely battered and broken immediately following a fight with another Shichibukai (Moria).
I don't think Killer is capable of cutting Kuma, and I don't think that the space time bubble actually harms what it separates, it doesn't effect mechanical function either so in some sense while the things are "separated" they are still "together" as well. In other words the body is still connected but because of a play with playtime it is separated as at the same time. They might be able to separate Kuma and then magnetize him and bury his individual parts under huge piles of rubble and then run, but that's about the extent of what they can do from what I've seen so far.
I mean just look at Zoro's fight with Kuma, nothing they've done is more impressive than what Zoro did, and Zoro was clearly at the disadvantage.
hmmm. 3 rookie pirates (strawhats, kidd, n law) an admiral, vice admiral and a shichibukai.
kidd ran into kuma, i'm calling that garp will run into law's crew n luffy will meet kizaru.
I think Luffy will run into Garp, since Garp is looking for Reileigh, and he's sticking with the Strawhats to coat their ship. Law will be the one to encounter Kizaru.
It's extremely obvious that if Shanks, Whitebeard, the other two Yonkou, and Rayleigh are all in the fight that it would be a rather large problem for the World Government, you'd have to be stupid to say that it wouldn't be. Garp, who is arguably one of the most experienced Marines in the entire fleet, said that just TWO legends at once would be something that they couldn't "Afford", add four more legends and say it's trivial? Lol you can't do that. I'm with Ivotas on this. Hell, add Dragon on top of that? The world government is confident, but so far, you have to realize, they can't even stop Dragon, let alone the Yonkou. That's right, you think they haven't sent Kuma to deal with Dragon, but they have to deal with Luffy? BS, Dragon's force, for whatever reason, is thus far untouchable by any power the World Government has. Why do you really think they need Poseidon? To deal with the pirates? Yes, the pirates are a pest, but that is just a cover, Dragon is the greatest threat and the real reason they need the weapon. But you guys really think that the four pirate emperors being added on top of that problem wouldn't be a big deal?
I find it suspicious that they're having the Shichibukai deal with Whitebeard, it tells me that they await a greater threat, otherwise, why would Sengoku be against Kizaru leaving, if the admirals aren't even the one's dealing with Whitebeard in the first place?
It's canon that Dragon is the greatest threat to the World Government, it's obvious that to the greatest threat goes the greatest resources. In my opinion, from what we've seen of the Shichibukai and the fact that Luffy has defeated every one he's encountered, the four Yonkou are certainly stronger than the Shichibukai. If the Shichibukai can't hold the line and Dragon involves himself, they're in trouble.
In other words, friends, the real reason that Garp fears multiple legend interference is Dragon. He fears how his son will take advantage of the situation, that's why the Marine's can't afford to take huge losses even if the win. In other words, if the World Government WINS, but takes large losses, Dragon, Garp's son, comes into action. This is the real risk.****
Well maybe they'll be involved in some weird way, maybe at the very least someone in Luffy's crew will read the newspapers after the talk with Shakky, lol.
You're making a rather long string of predictions based on very little, I don't believe Oda's ever been so predictable that we've successfully predicted all of the major events in an entire arc based on the beginning of that arc. I'm pretty sure everyone knew this chapter would happen, I know I did, as obviously when someone tells Luffy not to press the red button it eventually gets pressed every time, but we have many unknowns like what the shadow axe man's role is going to be, or garp's, or dragon's, or the supernovas, it's rather absurd of you to so confidently believe that you know Oda's "plan" at this point just because a really obvious event occured.
Luffy's always had a dark side to his seemingly positive portrayal by Oda; in fact, I'd say he's probably the darkest character of the whole Straw Hat lot. As "Fire Fist" Ace pointed out in the CD, Shanks' line "We're pirates, not saints." You can tell this in that Luffy is exceedingly selfish and rather inconsiderate of the feelings of other people, comrades included, and he really only sticks his neck out for comrades. He's not driven by some profound empathetic recognition of a man's will in other people - there's been injustice done around him before and he hasn't lifted a finger to help those people, not just in Seabody but back in Whisky Peak and Skypiea as well. I take this to be that Luffy sees his friends like possessions, and his "defense" of his friends and drive to help them out/get them back stems more from the childish impulse of, "they're mine!" like possessions rather than some bond of friendship. If one notices Luffy's actions, he really doesn't give a darn about his friend's feelings or intentions, so long as they follow him - he's never around when someone's history is explained and he even walked away when Nami's was about to be. He doesn't care. A lot of characters in the story take this to mean Luffy is good-willed, but I see it as childish and an interesting angle to his character.
This is certainly an interesting perspective, Malintex, and it's always a pleasure to read your posts. I have to disagree with you on the idea that he does not care about the feelings of his nakama, with Nami in Arlong park, you are overcomplicating his lack of interest in her backstory, as he was simply so focused on fixing her present that he didn't need to know. The final actions of the Arlong fight demonstrate rather obviously that he cared quite a bit about Nami's feelings. The same applies with Robin. If he viewed Robin as a possession, when she had declared that she wanted to die, he would not have said that he was fine with her doing so if that's what she really wanted as long as she was with them, since, obviously, he'd no longer 'possess' her. He didn't need to know her backstory, and he didn't care, because he makes character judgments and then sticks with his judgments, in Nami's case, her sad past didn't matter, in Robin's, her supposedly evil cursed past didn't matter. Luffy had decided that they should be his nakama, and went with it.
Is there a darker side to Luffy? Yes, certainly, in the same sense as there's a darker side to Vash the Stampede, but he's not a selfish asshole.
The whole point of not caring about each other's past is that they are all pirates, and pirates have pasts, once you're one of Luffy's nakama, he doesn't care what kind of person you were in the past, and he demonstrates this to the point that he isn't even interested in the stories and will walk away from them.
No one's claiming to be anyone's boss, I'm asking for a simple courtesy that I return to everyone else, Nanlit.
Hopefully this isn't permanently derailed…
Can you guys not derail this thread which refers to a specific incident between Zoro and Kuma with your discussion on your views of Oda's pacifist nature? I'd appreciate it since I don't go around derailing other people's threads and I only ask for the same courtesy in return. Just make your own thread if you want to talk about that stuff, this thread's about Zoro's encounter with Kuma, and whether or not the issue of impending death will come to Zoro in the future. I can understand how your little discussion relates to the thread, but it's still off topic.
I think that Kid's reaction to the sale of the mermaid to the world noble is more evidence of his views of the new world order that those who don his symbol (or various versions of it) crossed out carry. It's interesting to see Kid characterized as someone who is a pessimist and not very evil, or if evil, only so by circumstance and not of his own nature. As though he is as he is because the world is as it is and he sees it as his only means.
I'm pretty sure that the smiley's in general represent the OG Pirates and that the whole point of putting a cross over the symbol is to represent their elimination and the subsequent establishment of a new era.
Law's symbol bears no relation to Doflamingo's. That is why they're DIFFERENT. Yes, you could argue that they use the same type of face, but you could also argue that most pirate flags share the same type of skull. If they're different symbols, then they're different.
The auction house's emblem, however, is too similar. The difference is that the mouth isn't curved, but that may have been since it's a background detail. I believe their connection is certainly possible, if not likely.
You contradict yourself in your post. Pirate flags are different but what do they represent? Pirates.
Our entire point is that the symbols are ying/yangs of each other, and so related in a perpendicular fashion. Or at least that's the speculation, and from the abundance of clues even down to the minutia of the Auction House's smileys on the wall, we certainly have reason to believe that something's up.
The difference between this wound and Mihawk's is that this wound is intangible, when Zoro shows his weakened state on the Archipelego he's clutching at his heart and not some straight up wound.
We don't know what the effects of the Paw Paw fruit are and that's why it's possible that Zoro might not be able to just 'heal', it's not a cut. There's clearly more to Kuma than meets the eye if he's capable of essentially transfering damage and fatigue from one person to another.
I really don't believe that Zoro will die, I just believe that he'll have a rather severe brush with death, this is definitely going to come back and haunt him though.
I am taking into account the amount of chapters, I think it will be at least three hundred chapters before wb is defeated like I said I could easily be wrong I have been before its just my opinion
I could be misremembering, though it's not very critical to my point anyway.
Gorlem, Shanks was a young swordsman in Gol D. Roger's crew, he was rivals with Mihawk, a young swordsman in Whitebeard's crew.
This is in fact canon and stated in the manga, someone with a better memory than me could probably even tell you what chapter that was established on.
Kidany, I'll gladly agree to disagree with you, I personally just haven't seen the evidence to point to the Whitebeard's defeat plot device being used here and now. I don't think it's a necessary evolution at the moment, and so I don't think it's going to happen. I still think you are underestimating his crew because in my opinion the idea that a fight between Whitebeard and Blackbeard would be so much as "close" is an underestimation of him and his crew. If it were just Ace and Whitebeard against Blackbeard and his crew, Ace would singlehandedly eliminate Blackbeard's entire crew, and Ace wasn't even the strongest subordinate. I don't think that Blackbeard will want to risk the deaths of his entire crew, since that would be a likely outcome even if he did defeat Whitebeard. We've already seen that he doesn't want his crew to die with the fight with Ace.
"Dialouge like that isn't made to be said just to all the sudden make all the build up a farse."
In your opinion if Blackbeard doesn't go in and defeat Whitebeard at this confrontation then the build-up was a farce? That's like saying that if Zoro doesn't defeat Mihawk in the next twenty chapters, that 'build up' was a farce. It'll happen, but I doubt it's going to happen on the red line before the Strawhats have even entered the new world. I would consider going from an absolute nobody to a member of the Shichibukai nearly instantaneously a rather large accomplishment that was merited by the build up we've seen thus far.
Shanks has already shown that he's completely willing to sacrifice his pride and even take a swing at the strongest man in the world to prove a point when it comes to two things.
1. Saving the pirate era as is, since that was certainly one of the reasons he made his appeal to Whitebeard, he sees through Blackbeard's plot.
2. Saving Ace.
If he's willing to blatantly break through a WG attempt to stop him from meeting Whitebeard and then strike whitebeard just to have Ace called back from attempting to kill Blackbeard, I'm rather certain he's willing to do something here as well, at least from what I've seen of his character. You're right, Shanks can't go and tell Ace what to do, but he certainly can get involved in the war against the World Government in retribution for their plans to execute him.
As for whoever was saying we haven't seen any real evidence of the strong pirate's incredible strength, that's just false, we have.
We know that Mihawk can sink a fleet of Naval Warships in a matter of minutes, from a distance, with just his sword. While we didn't see it happen, we know it did from Don Krieg, we have seen enough to know that the big name pirates are legitimate. We've seen Whitebeard and Shank's combined strikes split the sky, we've seen Mihawk defeat Zoro with a one inch blade, we actually have seen Mihawk split a naval warship from 100 meters away with his sword (Don Krieg's flagship). More than that though, Oda's outright told us that they were the best of the best, it's canon that they are as strong as they are.
Mihawk is a member of the Shichibukai, yes, but that doesn't mean he'd idly let his old captain get murdered by Blackbeard, I mean that would make Mihawk a rather horrible guy.
Gorlom, I hope you aren't serious, did you need Oda to put up a sign or something? Oda showed us the entire fight in grand detail, we saw every move, and then it climaxed with Ace's defeat after they both used their most powerful attacks against each other at the same time. Then we were shown Ace's hat, but no Ace, with the obvious implication of his defeat, and left with the cliffhanger of "OMG IS ACE DEAD?" All he didn't show us was blackbeard and co cleaning up the mess. Of course you could be right, and if you are, then Blackbeard has no chance of beating whitebeard. I'm pretty sure that Blackbeard was still standing though, probably smiling his smile even, because he was definitely stronger than Ace.
I agree to disagree, Kidany, as you have your reasons and I have mine. It's good that the series isn't so obvious that everyone agrees on everything, lol.
When I first saw Franky I assumed he killed people. I'm just talking about what we thought of the character before we really got to know them.
Sure was, they both made the biggest attack they could with their fruit, and then Ace lost and this was represented by us seeing his hat and confirmed when we discovered that he was in Impel Down.
Kidany, yes, by an large our only disagreement is on whether or not Whitebeard will be defeated by Blackbeard at this point in the series, you feel he'll be killed/captured/defeated as he's rescuing Ace (which will be more important than his revenge, in my opinion), or right after he rescues Ace or right before, and I feel that he'll be defeated three to four hundred chapters from now.
I feel that Whitebeard and his crew are being massively underestimated and that it would be uncharacteristically dark and depressing to crush Ace's and all of Whitebeard's crew and Whitebeard himselfs dreams. I also don't believe that Whitebeard will be coming to Ace's rescue alone, I think that Shanks and his crew will be there, and I think that Mihawk, Whitebeard's former swordsman, will be there as well.
Blackbeard's devil fruit definitely does give Blackbeard an advantage over Ace's, considering that the end of the fight was quite literally fruit vs fruit, and Blackbeard's fruit won. Go look at how the fight was ended.
As for Blackbeard having the power to defeat Whitebeard, from what I've seen of his strength, Blackbeard couldn't beat Kuma, let alone the strongest man in the world.
As for the Shichibukai, it's already stated why they were formed, to scare pirates into submission and keep the pirate age as hindered as possible. They weren't created to win the World Government's wars, that's what the Navy was created for.
At this point in the series, I don't think that Blackbeard has demonstrated that he's anywhere near the level of the strongest pirates in the world, and certainly, in this war, those pirates are exactly who'll be involved. It's extremely unlikely that Blackbeard would stand a chance in a fight against Bartholomew Kuma, let alone Whitebeard, in a fight.
He's too ambitious to disband his crew and join with the Strawhats, my point is that just because someone looks like a victimizing scumbag gangster type doesn't necessarily mean he's actually all that bad, since that's exactly what Franky was.
Kidany, Admiral, it's just common sense. Blackbeard won his fight with Ace, but he only won because of the fact that his devil fruit was more powerful than Aces and because of the fact that touching him acts as seastone which put Ace at a very large disadvantage. From that fight, Blackbeard was nowhere near at a level that he could defeat Whitebeard in a duel, Ace wasn't even Whitebeard's top subordinate, I mean it's like saying that because Franky defeated Usopp, he could defeat Gear 2nd Luffy.
We'll see what happens, none of us can really tell the future so you could be right or I could be right and only time will tell, I personally will be very disappointed in the manga if Whitebeard is defeated by Blackbeard at this point in the manga.
It would mean that blackbeard is stronger than all the admiral's combined (and thus, the entire WG) and stronger than all the pirates, but that he still has a comparatively shitty crew (since they were no match for Ace even ganging up on him). He would be untouchable, no one would dare approach Blackbeard with hostile intent, just as no one dares approach Whitebeard with hostile intent. I mean the entire world would know about Blackbeard defeating him since it's very public, and this would mean that the entire world would also know that the navy was therefore unable to do it themselves.
More realistically, Blackbeard will stick to his character design which is to engage in conflict only as it is necessary for him to progress his goals, he doesn't need to kill/capture whitebeard so he won't even attempt it, just like he wasn't intending on capturing Ace, and in fact, despite Ace being a much more noteworthy name than the strawhats, he still tried his damndest to avoid conflict and to have Ace team up with him instead.
Everything blackbeard does is minimalistic and calculated, the bare minimum for what he needs to achieve. He doesn't need to beat whitebeard to get to raftel, or at least he doesn't need to at this point, and so the only way that there will be a conflict between blackbeard and whitebeard is if whitebeard starts it (aiming for revenge).
I am inclined to believe that while Blackbeard won't want anything to do with whitebeard, whitebeard is still going to want Blackbeard's head, and so conflict could be born that way.
He's got no reason to fight Whitebeard, like you said, Pirate King is the man who gets to Raftel, not the man who beats every other pirate up. Blackbeard has no vendetta against whitebeard, he has no reason to setup an intricate ambush against him.
If he kicked the crap out of Whitebeard in front of the World Government and everyone knew about it (and they would because this whole event is very public) yes almost everyone would bow down to him. He would not ever be attacked or approached by an enemy, kind of like how no one really fucks with Whitebeard now. This is especially the case if the WG needs Blackbeard to defeat Whitebeard, as it shows that he is also stronger than the Navy Admirals.
It would literally eliminate the need for character development with Blackbeard, yes his 'crew' would still develop but I really doubt Oda would operate like that. This argument is like saying that because x villain could defeat Usopp, x villain could defeat Luffy, except the power difference between Ace and Whitebeard is far larger than that.
I personally don't see why blackbeard's character build up needs to climax suddenly in the middle of the story with him straight up beating the strongest guy in the entire manga. I'm pretty sure that just because he's had character development doesn't mean he needs to be the strongest man in the world, lol.
We'll see what happens, either of us could be right or wrong as we aren't fortune-tellers (or at least I'm not).
Well from what we know of Kidd, there are those who even he disdains as scum, he listens to his crew, and he's calculated and intelligent.
We can probably also assume that he's extremely brutal and that he and Luffy will not get along, they may be enemies but I do not see Kidd as "evil" or at least nowhere near AS evil as some of villains we've seen like Don Krieg, Spandam, Eneru, and Crocodile. He seems like a cynical type of guy and a sort of 'punk' and he seems eager to get in confrontations, these are all very contrary to Luffy's nature.
Still, if he wasn't legitimately mean to civilians I don't think Shakky would have talked about it, so I'm going to assume that while he's not horribly individually evil, he and his crew regularly commit horrible atrocities and treat the lives of others with very little care.
Mainly I just like that his entire crew seems to consist of outcasts, just remember how evil we thought Franky was? That's why I don't want to make the assumption about Kidd.
He is at the auction but we have no idea why he's at the auction.
It doesn't make sense to, at fifty percent story completion, make the primary antagonist more powerful than the entire navy and the entire pirate world by himself, which is what Blackbeard successfully killing Whitebeard where the Navy failed would mean. It would illegitimize every upcoming villain until we hit blackbeard.
It would mean that Blackbeard is strong enough to take on all three Admirals, Sengoku, and the old geezers (who I assume are rather powerful) by himself and that absolutely no pirate in the entire world could touch him. He would essentially be the pirate king here and now, and it's not going to go down that way.
It's also too dark. I mean first Ace gets captured, Luffy assumes he'll take care of himself, then he's sentenced to death (with Luffy none the wiser), then Whitebeard comes to rescue his nakama and is brutally assassinated instead? Then after the failed rescue attempt, Ace is executed? Ace's promise is never fulfilled, despite the obvious build up that was put into place for that as well. It would contradict every theme the story has presented us so far and it would force Luffy into an impossible situation where he wants to kick Blackbeard's ass, a man who absurdly is stronger than anyone else in the world. Believe that's going to happen if that's what you want to believe though.
I do agree with you 100% about the topic making bullshit. If a topic was made a month ago, who cares if someone makes a new topic that's similar. Honestly, it's not going to kill the website.
Considering the way Zoro reacted to the small bubble of the effect I'm going to have to disagree with you on the idea of Kuma's damage being miniscule in comparison to Mihawk's final attack, especially on seeing the after-effects and the way Sanji reacted to Zoro's situation immediately following it all.
I don't think Zoro owes Kuma any debt whatsoever, he didn't do Zoro a favor, it was a condition of honor between the two of them and Kuma only obliged because of his own ethic and the way he was impressed by Zoro's willingness to sacrifice his own very ambitious dream for another's.
I wonder if this will turn into a situation where everyone finds out about Ace but the Strawhats.
Don Flamingo and his followers, those he's elected to lead the "New Era" of piracy with him, don the crossed smiley face skull.
We can only assume that the smiley face skull is a representation of everything the "Golden Age of Pirates" stands for, dreams, adventure, and the search for one piece.
I don't think Don Flamingo cares about one piece, he cares about eliminating the weak for the strong, and he's declared war on the Golden Era of Piracy.
I am interested in seeing how Trafalgar Law reacts to Don Flamingo and his followers, and in what kind of man Law is himself, since he seems to don the opposite symbol of that flamingo asshat.
Have any of the strawhats seen the news about Ace yet, or just the people in grove 24?
I think that Kid is a good guy who looks like a bad guy. He's clearly intelligent and it's extraordinarily clear that he takes in outcasts and that he's a captain who listens to and cares about his subordinates thoughts, he even asks one of them if he agrees with him in the little screen time that we've seen.
They may have a history of violence against civilians but we don't know the story behind it. I think he'll definitely be a rival of the strawhats, but not an enemy. He's going to intentionally try to outbid Nami, and he probably has more money than her, so it will be interesting to see what happens from here.
I doubt he can as well, and my mistake, I meant Hawkins. So far all of his "fortunes" have come after the event already occured (spaghetti on the clothes, zoro surviving).
@Fire Fist:
According to the scripts:
Kuma: What I have just expelled from his body
is his "pain" and "fatigue."
It is all of the damage he accumulated during his fight with Moria and his people.
If you wish to take his place, that means you must accept his suffering.
You are close enough to death already that you cannot survive this added damage.
You will die.Kuma said he'll die. He didn't say when. Which means that the damage may not have killed him immediately, but will have long term effects on Zoro.
As for the the "Let me choose my location", it's actually:
Zoro: Zehh.
Gahk!
Just let me… change locations...
Hahh...
...Hahh...
Hahh...He meant he wanted to move away from everyone so they didn't have to see him like that.
So, the short answer is we don't know the second half of the exchange, why Kuma left without killing Zoro and why he agreed to that sort of deal, but we can assume that Zoro WILL die sometime in the near future because of his injuries.
Thanks for the clarification, by the way, is that Stephen's script, because I trust his translations the most, the one I read actually said "Just let me choose the location" but that was from onemanga and I didn't see who the translator was.
I took it metaphorically as well, because it says that not only will he suffer Luffy's pain and suffering, but his fatigue. He sucked the life out of Zoro and injured him to an unbelievable extreme, I find the fact that Zoro stays silent on what really happened even to Sanji and Brooke, who at least have an idea. When Brooke saves Zoro in one of the following chapters, it's not just that Zoro is injured that is slowing him down, he's literally just slower than he used to be because of what Kuma did to him, at least that's how I understood it.
Trafalgar did not see death for Zoro on that day, he didn't mean that he never saw Zoro dying.
Anyway, like I said I don't think he will die but I do think that it will be a plot point later on, just as Mihawk's wound was, and I would say that Kuma injured Zoro at the very least as much as that black sword did. I think it will be a plot point if Zoro has to go up against the fighting crewman of Captain Kid's crew, MassacreMan.
By the way who was that axe guy at the very beginning of this archipeleggo arc, the dude in all black with the big axe and the twisted face who talked about the cowardly imprisoned pirate who was begging not to be killed and whatnot? Is that still up in the air, I don't remember seeing anyone like that before.
Blackbeard would lose to Whitebeard in a fight. It will be the admirals confronting Whitebeard.
Blackbeard certainly aims to take the top spot in the world of piracy, like Luffy, and he is ahead of Luffy, but he's not there at this very moment.
Looking at the simple fact, Blackbeard went about this in the most tactical method possible, he is a very strong fighter, so he killed another very strong fighter to obtain a very powerful fruit. After obtaining this fruit he set out and assembled a very powerful crew and began looking for a means to make a name for himself, he determined that capturing a crew with a 100 Million Beli captain and some other bountied crewmembers would get him sufficient fame. He discovers the Strawhats in Jaya, and sees them as ambitious for their low bounties, then discovers that they have higher bounties and probably finds out that Luffy beat a Shichibukai. Since he'd seen Luffy and his crew he was able to estimate that he and his crew were much stronger, so Luffy's a perfect option to get him into the Shichibukai.
Even with his devil fruit he clearly wasn't looking for a confrontation with Whitebeard, or even Ace.
Certainly he was stronger than Ace, but so is Whitebeard, and by quite some margin. Blackbeard has to handle any and all damage he takes, like Zoro does, and he's good at it, but Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world and can deal enough to KO even Blackbeard. If Blackbeard could singlehandedly defeat Whitebeard, he'd do so, and he wouldn't need or want to be a Shichibukai because he'd be so incredibly powerful that absolutely no one could even pose a serious threat to him.
When Whitebeard confronts the world government it will be the Admirals that greet him and try to defeat him while his first division commander will try to use the diversion to rescue Ace. Blackbeard MIGHT be there to stop that, though. While I don't think that even all three admirals could defeat Whitebeard, I don't think that he could beat all three of them at once either, creating a stalemate, so either Ace gets rescued or Whitebeard eventually withdraws without him.
Either way, the entire Naval Armada will be focused on Whitebeard, allowing Dragon to make calculated strikes against the world government, causing a great commotion, and casting doubt onto the significance of affiliation with the world government. He may even have Ace rescued.
We'll see, it's going to be damn interesting that's for sure.
There's a possibility that Dragon will use this conflict to his advantage, as well, being that he's a revolutionary.
I don't think Zoro will actually die, but I do think that this will have unexpected malingering effects on him, and that later on, it might suddenly reappear viciously and he'll have to defeat it somehow (via Chopper or something).
We don't know the extent of the effects that these injuries would have had on Luffy because he was unconscious and alive, I would say that Zoro handled it better than Luffy as he maintained consciousness and he took in all of Luffy's damage despite the fact that he had already taken a large amount himself.
But ya, I don't think he'll die either, but I do think that statement was talking about more than where he'd walk into the bubble.
I really doubt that Zoro would essentially lie to Kuma and pretend to believe that he was killing himself to save the crew. I'm rather positive that he really believed/believes Kuma's attack was/is lethal, and that he willingly walked into it under the impression that he would/will die.
I'm just wondering if by surviving it there, he really has overcome all the effects of the attack. There have been hints of lingering effects in the past several chapters, and I wonder if it's going to create a problem for Zoro later on.
It's just a thought, I mean he says "Just let me choose the location" and I wonder what he means by that.
When Zoro decides to sacrifice himself for Luffy, Zoro makes a statement before willingly taking all of Luffy's pain and vice, which Kuma guarantees will eventually lead to his death. Zoro says something like "Just let me choose the place."
Does this mean that Zoro's life is marked, and that at some point impending death will hit him from this attack of Kuma's, I don't think that the effects of that attack are anywhere near over, I think that it's going to be a very serious problem later on, possibly at a critical moment.
Did anyone else understand that statement in a different way than me? I took it to mean that Zoro was going to die, but not immediately, perhaps after Luffy is Pirate King, perhaps after he beats Mihawk, but that he will die from Kuma's attack (if nothing is done to save him, that is). Kuma said he was impressed but it wasn't like with Mihawk, where Mihawk let Zoro live, Kuma didn't weaken his attack at all for Zoro, he just noted the greatness of the crew and captain and kept his word.
Also, what chapter was that on, and what are your thoughts?
I'm pretty sure that Zoro is going to be the one who beats Kuma. I don't know why everyone is underestimating him when he's been hurt a lot worse than this against opponents that he could not cut and still won in the past.
The only villain thus far, from what we know of Kuma's fruits that has shown an obvious means of defeating the man would be Blackbeard, who would completely own Kuma like he were worthless trash.
I could just imagine it, Blackbeard punching Kuma and Kuma expecting to 'deflect' it.
@Rai:
Not more damage, but he definitely suffers more.
_Ace: I can see the strength of darkness' destruction.
…but I find this strange...!!
Any Logia user should be able
to shrug off an attack such as this.
- Page 17 -
Blackbeard: Raahhhh!!!
Aaagh!!!
(hisss!!!)
Hahh...
Hahh...
I just told you...!! Darkness sucks in everything.
Bullets, blades, blows, blazes and lightning blasts!!!
Unlike the rest of you, I can't just shrug off attacks!
My body sucks in and absorbs all pains greater than normal!
But in exchange for that heightened risk, I also gained the power to suck in one MORE thing!!!
"Kurouzu"!!! (Dark Whirlpool)
Technically, the gravity of darkness draws out the power-user's "true" form…_Stephen's Script.
"All pains" implies injuries and not just mental pain this is obvious.
@Natty:
I share the same emotions, just in a much more severe way.
I mean, here is a guy, or skeleton (i dont really give a shit) who has his shadow removed and desperately wants to get it back; and he has been trying to get it back for a long time. In a sense, his pride/dignity went along with his shadow. So Oda has Zoro get Brooke's shadow back.
Way to go there.
I mean, hell, if something of mine was taken from me, I wouldnt let anyone try and get it back. Why would I want other people to fight my battles for me? Thats just pathetic. Oda in this chapter made Brook look like a loser and a pussy who couldnt get his shadow back himself. Oda really let me down here. I understand Zoro wants to be the world's greatest swordsman, but not at the expense of making Brook look like a pansy.
Hopefully, other people's theories about Brook returning the favor becomes true. Even if it does happen, it wouldn't feel the same for me.
This was a bigger letdown than Sanji's fight.
Please don't let me down, Chopper.
If someone kidnapped your loved one you wouldn't swallow your pride and call the police, but instead you'd risk your life (and your loved ones) so that you could feel hardcore and get back what was taken from you on your own?
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the very obvious similarity between this fight and Luffy's fight in Mock Town with Bellamy. Then, Luffy got something back for his friend. Here, Zoro got something back for a friend (and got a sword out of it too).
Blackbeard took more damage from Ace than he would have without his fruit.
This means that Ace's attacks weren't enough to KO Blackbeard or even close to KO him. Blackbeard could have beaten Ace without his fruit, he purposely chose to use his fruit so he could test it out.
It's very clear that Blackbeard can take huge amounts of damage and that he can deal out huge amounts of damage, and I personally don't think Ace was on a higher level than Shanks when he fought Blackbeard.
Awesome fight, I didn't expect the flashback even though in hindsight it was obvious.
My only regret is that this was almost similar to Luffy's fight with Bellamy, Zoro got a new sword, but he didn't learn anything new. I like how the Samurai is shown to be honorable at the end of the fight and keeps standing despite defeat so that he can give Zoro his sword.
We learn that the sword Meitou (Kuina's) was once owned by a legendary samurai (Zoro's Sensei?). I really think there's a lot more to that sensei than we've been let on.
Also I believe that Samurai is from the same homeland as Zoro.
Crocodile and Lucci were the two hardest opponents Luffy faced up to this point in the series (as in, the hadest for Luffy, Enel was the strongest).
If they fought blow for blow and did not use their environment at all, and Crocodile didn't get arrogant and get Lucci all bloodied up and instead just dried the guy out followed up with poison hook. Crocodile would win. If Crocodile got even one of Lucci's fists bloody enough to where Lucci could get even one hit off on Crocodile, Crocodile would lose. I guarantee you that Lucci's super powerful finishing move he used on Luffy is more powerful then anything Luffy dished out in his fight against Crocodile. One of those would KO croc if it connected.
Realistically we can't say who'd win as we have no idea as to whether or not Lucci ever fought a Logia, we do know that the Marines were extremely fearful and confident in Lucci's ability to subdue a 100 million beri pirate. So we can assume that Lucci is stronger than your average 100 million beri pirate by a large margin.
We can also assume that the Government really gauged Luffy's threat level by the fact that he defeated Lucci, and that that is the real reason his new bounty is so high (not the sack of ennie's lobby, since it was clear that Lucci could have singlehandedly done the same thing, even if the other cp9 and the Buster Call opposed him). So in my opinion Lucci would have a bounty of around 200 million Beri, which is not far away from the bounty that Croc would have had (160 million).
Theorizing about whether or not Lucci would be able to find ways to fight Logia users is a waste of time, we have no idea unless we see it happen.
We have little to no knowledge of the cp9 beyond a glimpse into the power of Do Flamingo and the bounty of him and Kuma. Other than that we have literally nothing, Kuma's bounty might reflect his current power, but like Crocodile, he's like a lot stronger than a 300 million pirate, and his bounty likely was frozen before he would have reached his peak.
Then again, we have no idea. I personally think that Kuma has something up his sleeve because Don Flamingo sure wasn't daring to play any tricks on him. Is Don Flamingo really all that strong? We don't know, we saw him manipulating some official who probably had the 'strength' factor of say, Spandam. We don't know anything about him we just have a teaser, so we can only compare Crocodile and Lucci, and that implies that Lucci competes with at least some of the Shichibukai in terms of power.
I really believe that inside the shichibukai there are huge power level differences, and that how strong one shichibukai is in comparison to another is not considered. They don't need to be equals, they need to serve their purpose. Mihawk is probably a lot stronger than Crocodile or Lucci, for instance, but that doesn't mean Crocodile wasn't fulfilling his purpose in the organization.
Also, just because Lucci is not in a team as high level as the Shichibukai means absolutely nothing. Blackbeard isn't one of the Yonkou, but you can bet he's stronger than most if not all of the Shichibukai.
Zoro won, if he loses to another swordsman before facing off with Mihawk his vow is meaningless.
Bones wouldn't have said he'd never seen such a thing if it was the samurai's doing, as the samurai is using his moves. Zoro's the one that surprised him.
I approve of all the cock punching going on in the first page.