@.access:

Hmmm… no, I didn't?

I said that all the way up to the end of the manga they were still used as a parameter/reference of strength and perceived by the fans as the elite of warriors. This doesn't mean they are the strongest characters, just like the Gold Saints are not the strongest character in Saint Seiya but are perceived as the measure of strength because they are still regarded as the symbol of power in the series. Even by the end of Bleach, the readers would still judge if a character was really strong by comparing them to the Captains.

This statement makes no sense because there were characters considered to be beyond Captain level, they were never considered to be the standard for strength given characters like Kenpachi was considered above and beyond the level for Captain and was held back by his own petard due to boredom to becoming outright broken once he unlocked his shikai.

When you have the first antagonists still perceived as that as the manga ends, you don't have a power creep. A power creep would be them being completely useless by the end of the manga.

Except that was the case.

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@glass:

Great fighting ability not compensating for a lack of power was exactly what I was trying to point out and why power creep is a concern for the series.

Except there's characters who still lose despite having great power due to their lack of fighting ability (Midoriya, Shigaraki, Momo, Denki, etc.) so how the hell could they be a power creep?

@Shinuki:

Damn, Furudate pulling 34 pages + color pages, and Haikyuu never had a pause in 6+ years! on the other side, Horikoshi is slowly turning BNHA into a 13/15 pages manga…

Too bad the art sucks.

@Jabberwok:

That said, Mirio absolutely did not beat Overhaul without his quirk. He basically just stalled him through sheer determination, and he lasted longer than Nighteye due to his better physical conditioning.

Yes that's what I was trying to convey that Mirio held on despite having no quirk and would have died if Deku didn't interrupt the fight. The point is that you don't need an excellent quirk to become a strong hero you can also get by with a great fighting ability but that won't compensate for a lack of power.

@glass:

Yes mirio landed a punch in the start but in general against a quirk he mostly defended against by phasing, I don't think he would lasted 15 minutes. As I said it's just my opinion that mirio did not show the aptitude to be able to fight against overhaul for that long without his quirk. You do realize that Mirio is among the top 3 students at UA and was trained by All Might's sidekick right?

The point of quirks having actual strength level is that no matter how much people like tail guy learns to fight it's unlikely hes going to reach the level of the stronger quirks without some op interpretation of what a tail can do. That can end up with these characters being sidelined, especially since he's not the only one learning to fight and plenty of villains themselves could learn to fight.

This has been proven wrong many times within the manga itself. It does not matter how strong your quirk is you can still lose regardless. This is just an assumption you yourself made , hell Mirio is the perfect example that you don't need a strong quirk in order to be an excellent fighter.

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@Razh:

Just keep up the good work. You have an alt already in place or…?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Thank you for your worthless reply.

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@King:

You're just proving his point.

How? Him refusing to make an argument based on his own inability to read is proving his point now?

^So you have no point to make and have to make a stupid excuse in order to save face? Okay.

@AfroSamurai:

I'm not talking Todoroki.

Because he destroys your stupid argument.

I'm talking the children in the second license exam arc

The same arc in which their weaknesses were detailed?

Overhaul being stupidly strong

Overhaul got beaten by someone who was quirkless for the sheer fact he has no fighting ability and like all touch based quirks his power is as lethal to how close he can actually ouch you

Eri being outright broken

Eri is not even a fighter and her ability is outright worthless since its only limited to organic material and isn't very reliable due to her own inexperience

Deku's top-tier seemingly changing in strength depending on circumstance

Deku is a mediocre fighter with top tier strength, this has never changed.

All Might having no clearcut, established power-ceiling, and American Heroes being out there potentially overshadowing anything established as top-tier (All Might aside).

The second point is completely fabricated on your part but All Might is considered the power ceiling fr the series being hampered by his own injury which got bad enough that he had to give up his power and retire when it ran out.

I know it's shounen, but it wouldn't hurt to have clearer lines as to what exactly the top-tier can do. We're already seeing Endevour can barely keep up with the villains… how are the stakes going to realistically rise from here, unless Endevour just gets overshadowed by the kids? Will All for One's confrontation with All Might will lose its Umpf when you look at chapter 500 and EVERYONE has powers comparable to All for One's in strength? I'm just worried for the longrun, I'd like it if the series actually made sense when you look back!

What the hell are you talking about? Endeavor has never had trouble keeping up with the new villains much like the first Nomu introduced the latest Nomu was also created to combat him specifically we're 200 chapters in and none of the students have fought or beaten Nomus by themselves.

Already addressed Jojo above. Jojo doesn't have to make sense, it's Jojo.

Literally "it doesn't count because I say so" tier.

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@.access:

Yeah, but that has nothing to do with power creep.

You literally just said the Captains were the peak of strength in the series which is false because they were another group of characters above them introduced in the final arc.

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@glass:

Well I just dont understand how mirio was able to get close or do anything at the point where he lost his quirk. I might be remembering wrong but when mirio lost his quirk iirc he was at a considerable distance and couldn't really do anything do overhaul beyond dodging and I don't see how he could dodge overhauls attack for long enough without his invincibility quirk. I personally just don't buy mirios combat aptitude to be able to survive overhaul without his quirk for that long.

He literally punched him and broke his arm. What the hell is wrong with you people? Mirio is shown to be a great fighter without his quirk.

Strong quirks might not completely compensate for the lack of ability to fight but almost the very first scene in this manga shows that ability to fight/effort alone does not make up for having greatly inferior/non-existent quirks. It has been a reoccuring theme in the manga that not all quirks are equal.

Its also a recurring theme in the manga that you need to have fighting ability not just a good quirk to compensate so what the hell was the point of your argument?

@glass:

Theres really no indication that mirio had the martial arts skill to do anything when overhaul decides to create spikes out of the floor without his quirk. Im not sure there is possibly any amount of fighting skill that allows a normal person to do anything about it. I have no problem with people being beaten due to exploiting their weaknesses but in a medium range fight against overhaul without a quirk lack of fighting experience isnt that big of a drawback.

What does that have to do with anything? He couldn't dodge the spikes as shown for the fact that he got stabbed at the final minute mark by the spike the whole point was that Overhaul couldn't beat him in a close range fight because he couldn't touch him with his quirk. Also Monster Overhaul couldn't hit Nighteye either he commented specifically that the moments between the two were similar showcasing that the reason Mirio survived for those 5 minutes was due to his training.

Edit: My main concern with powercreep in this series is more that characters like sugar and tail guy end up falling behind without some really op interpretation of their abilities. Like i cant see tape guy being more than backup and restraining villain help in the future.

As showcased time and time again a strong quirk does not compensate for a lack of ability to fight.

@glass:

I was actually wondering can laser guys laser actually do any damage or is he literally just a giant torch?

As for the fact that make-things-girl has no limits on her power I don't really give it much thought. Quirks and actual power levels are really just balanced on how the author feels. Mirio without any powers somehow held out against overhaul for quite a while. While it was cool seeing how overhaul was getting his ass kicked by mirio when he had his powers, holding out without any powers just broke all suspension of disbelief. Right after we had a super noumu stronger than the level one hero appear out of nowhere. There are people like ice and fire and has-a-tail guy in the same class. By the end of the manga im fully expecting hands guy to turn into crocodile or something.

What's so unbelievable that a character who is know for being an good fighter beating someone who has never been shown to be a good one and just relied on his quirk? With touch quirks all you have to do is just dodge them, Shigaraki lost to someone who just shot him from a distance despite having a all decaying quirk, Aizawa is able to defeat his opponents with his skill alone since all his quirk does is render other abilities inoperable for a limited time.

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@King:

To be fair, that has become part of Jojo's charm at this point.

And also even Araki realized he went overboard with Stand abilities after Part 5 and 6 and scale things back in Part 7 and 8…to a degree.

@desa:

I have a real problem with how the author write the powers of the kids. They are to great at it and leave little room for improvement. It was fine when it was Bakougo and Shoto only(and even then I think Shoto started to op) but now it seems he went ahead and gave them power-ups they should grown into after maybe 1-2 years in school. As it stands they pretty much all have the level of handle you would expect from pros except that they are lower than like the top 10 of the whole countries.

What the hell are you talking about? Even during the sports festival there were saying that some students would rival even pros due to the power of their quirks. Its an ongoing theme in the manga that quirk singularity grow stronger each generation hence why Deku's version of OfA is potentially stronger than All Might's, Shoto is a by product of two very powerful quirks from the previous generation and then there's Eri and the children that Bakugou, Shoto and Inasa had to look after during their studying course. Also most of these students aren't very good at utilizing their quirks and they always come with a drawback.

The vine girl had to much range, the beast boy has to much power. Ever since that arc started I can't help but feel that the author put them all at a level were it just makes no sense for hero schooling to take 3 years. It seems everytime he thinks of a nice improvement he shove it to them in the next week or month in-universe. The pacing of their growth is way to fast.

Ibara is stationary and can't move very far, Jurota can't control his Beast form and caused his team the victory because of the drawback his quirk, the fact that their team lost despite their "strong quirks" is a testament that they still have a ways to go to develop their drawbacks hell this is the first time we've even seen their quirks in full action (Ibara's was in the sports festival) so your assessment makes no sense hell people may argue that the development is too slow.

I also hate the handling of Girl-of-holding. This chapter just broke it. She not only prove that she can just decide to let a thing be part of her body rather than being forced to drop it(the ropes) but also by producing so many things incuding specially design glasses that were preloaded in her canon in a bag. She pretty much establish that she can do everything except if the author randomly decide she can't.

Momo's quirk is only limited to her own imagination this was explained several times already that she can create anything that's inorganic as long as she understand how it works or how its made hence the dictionary. During the USJ arc she created a pole, a machete and veil all in one instant in another she created Russian dolls with flash grenades inside them. Why is this all of a sudden too much?

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@AfroSamurai:

The mark of a good shounen is to effectively control the powercreep so it doesn't become ridiculous. Naruto, Bleach and especially Dragon Ball or Toriko completely fail at this. Fullmetal Alchemist, Gash Bell, and (to a lesser extent) One Piece manage it splendidly.

The end of FMA had Ed punching literal God, Gash Bell was all sorts of bullshit all the time (Kanchome the weakest mamodo turned out to be the strongest) and One Piece does have power creep but its system is made so that there is no set requirement to how a person's power can be used since even the weakest character can beat the strongest if his DF power counteracts it (see Mr. 3 being able to stop Magellan). At least you didn't list HxH because that has severe powercreep.

Ideally, MHA would be able to set up some clear rules for growth to avoid ridiculous power displays that break suspension of disbelief. As it stands, by creating quirks that have very unclear limits and broken powers, it's not exactly doing the best job.

Each and every character has a blowback to using their quirks whether it being physical pain or natural cause hell Endeavor conceived Todoroki for the sheer fact that his mother's quirk could counteract his own so that Todoroki doesn't overheat himself but at the same time he can't solely depend on his other half because he'll get hypothermia.

It's not about it being a shounen. It's about it being a good shounen vs a not so good shounen.

He says this with an avatar of Jojo which the king of asspulls, bullshittery and powercreep.

@.access:

Not the main point, but Bleach actually did a very good job at power creep. The captains were the first main antagonist and they remained the reference of power all the way to the end, still seen to this day as the elite of that series.

Not even didn't. Remember Squad Zero? The Captains of the Soul King itself? All jobbed.