@Dorobō:
We kind of have to say he did until a trial is had. The sky's the limit on what he shared with such an immediate threat such as Putin.
You might not have lived through the 2016 election but I did. It was not pretty.
I guess you weren't here to see our coverage of the 2016 election but this is still a pretty weird assumption to make.
Putin was only able to attempt to influence the election because it was so close (because so many people loathed Hillary and distrust of the media was at a then-all time high), but the reality is as far as we know Comey had a larger and more direct impact on the results than Putin did.
That could change as the connections between Russia and the Trump campaign are further investigated but I feel pretty confident in saying that Trump winning is almost entirely America's fault, for a lot of reasons.
@Dorobō:
We did elect a black man to be president which oh yeah, was a step too far for people like him and those that defend him, most of all when Snowden's stance on people leaking information to journalists used to be they should be shot in the balls.
So people who disagree with Bush administration policies are racist because… Obama existed?
And Snowden allegedly changing his stance on leaking stuff is relevant because...?
@Dorobō:
Anyway he choose to steal countless files unrelated to his goal and then shared them with an immediate threat in Russia.
I understand how, on paper, this sounds like a huge disaster but in reality it hasn't had any noticeable effect on American citizens. Why should they care?
On the flip side, every single person our government spies on is immeasurably harmed.
@Dorobō:
A better Snowden defense was he was tricked by scumbags like Greenwald and Julian Assange. Going for being a clueless libertarian fool is really the best anyone can give him and it still does not justify the stealing of all the files.
Was Snowden a libertarian?
On Google all I see is speculation and there's nothing in his Wikipedia article.
@Dorobō:
He thinks he deserved less. Again he would rather have people like himself shot in the balls than leak information. And second this is still not justifying the stealing of the files and sharing them with Russia. Which is the big reason he will not ever get a pardon out of thin air. Which is fully understandable.
Is there a present day basis for this? Because you're saying "he believes this" in present tense as if he's currently anti-whistleblower. Not that I have any knowledge of him ever having been anti-whistleblower, but "Snowden is a hypocrite who hates whistleblowers" is not a claim I expected anyone to make.
@Dorobō:
People don't like listening to ranting of right-wing libertarians? Shocking.
Do you think I'm a right-wing libertarian?
@Dorobō:
People already knew they do long before him and don't care long after him. People still don't know or care about PRISM. More people will care about the files he stole and gave to Russia but even that's a reach. Information being widespread or not is not even the point here when the discussion is of what is moral and/or legal to do. His legacy is pushing Greenwald and Assange more into the mainstream. Which itself should be illegal tbh.
I don't even think it's possible to ban "unintentionally making people you don't like famous".
@Dorobō:
I am making it clear to you I am not here to talk about PRISM and the age old debate of security vs safety. Whether it's bad or that it helped more people in the end is a discussion for another topic, with someone else. My thing is to make clear he stole files unrelating to his cause and yes that makes him a national security threat right there.
PRISM is the entire reason people like and support Snowden.
This is like saying "I'm not here to talk about police killings and systemic racism, I'm here to talk about the mean people who burned down a Wendy's."
At some point you have to concede that maybe the collateral damage was worth it.
@Dorobō:
Which is up for debate if that's what he really wanted to do giving his past words, finicky morals and all his actions as well as the people he gave the information to.
A Bush loving "journalist" like Greenwald is not who I would have tried to sell this to. I mean Jesus fuck he spun and spread misinformation like wild fire on this and it's not shocking because again, a Bush fan? Not who you're going to go for on a moral mission of defeating an anti-American system. But again you can try to defend Snowden that he was foolish as his best case defense rather than just a right-winger with loose morals stances. But it's not much better.
Honestly I'm really not that knowledgeable about Greenwald.
I've heard the name a bunch of times and based on my prior knowledge and some basic Googling of him he really doesn't seem like a Bush fan?
Then again you seem pretty confident that both Snowden and I are right-wing libertarians without any evidence.
@Dorobō:
She got her sentence commuted by Obama. As it was a special case where she was punished enough and yeah US prisons are awful to minorities so this makes perfect sense to get her out of the system. Though she did go to jail again later for a whole year because she would not give up info on Assange. Which hey girl? He is not worth a year in jail for.
Her sentence was commuted after seven years.
That is not justice and Obama is a coward for not pardoning her sooner.
@Dorobō:
Snowden would have been fine there. He is a white cisgender right-winger who stuck it to the black man who for once was in charge. Why people like you idolize him. Why people make films about him and Assange.
There's a lot to unpack here.
First… American prison is not fine for white cis people, especially not political prisoners.
Second, the fact that Obama, who you seem to feel was completely justified in leaving a trans woman in jail for seven years purely to satisfy his cis white male conservative political allies, happens to be black, has no relevance to a situation where an NSA employee broke the law in an attempt to tear down a Bush-era mass surveillance program.
As far as I'm aware Snowden has never once said anything about Obama's race being relevant to any of his political views or his actions, and it's just weird to assume otherwise.
Third, I don't idolize Snowden, you just haven't convinced me that he's so awful that he doesn't deserve a pardon.
Fourth, no, people don't make movies about Snowden because they're racist.
@Dorobō:
Manning is the actual victim here if thee is one and she did her time already.
The victim of our predominately white cis leaders and also that one black one who could have let her out at any time but didn't.
If that doesn't clarify the fact that none of this was about Obama's race, I don't know what will.
@Dorobō:
And he also would have been fine if all he did was leak the information regarding his goal. It's the stealing of the other files that is the big issue here. He made his choices. The narrative is set in stone for people like you but he had options and hindsight is a bitch but it is what is. We are here now. He doesn't need to be pardoned without finding out what damage he has caused and what damage might still happen down the line and he dosen't need to be shot in the balls or killed. He needs a trial for his crimes.
Being the most wanted political prisoner in the American prison system was not a reasonable option.
Just look at how a more recent "most hated and feared by the people in power" political figure was treated: Jeffrey Epstein.
He "committed suicide" in the most North Korea-esque way possible.
Sure he was guilty as hell but the fact remains that the justice system will step aside and allow you to be murdered in prison if someone wants it badly enough.
Yes, Snowden should ideally have stood trial. Assange should also have stood trial.
Neither of their possible sentences should have included execution or torture and until those things can be firmly taken off the table I don't really blame either of them for fleeing from a vengeful and immoral US government.
@Dorobō:
It wasn't and fuck no.
Pretty sure it was. China wouldn't take him.
@Dorobō:
Nope, you're making an excuse for treason.
And so are you. Except… I'm excusing a guy who stole a bunch of secret papers and used them to expose treason by our intelligence agencies and you're excusing one of the greatest crimes against American citizens in all of US history because… at the time the president was black?
@Dorobō:
Once again an excuse.
Our prison systems are actually controlled by racist assholes. And have nothing to do with Snowden's crimes. Again an excuse. The weakest one at that.
Racism is not the only thing wrong with our prison system.
You can't say "oh he's a white guy, he'll be fine" because facts, logic and common sense are all against you.
@Dorobō:
Do you even know what Gitmo's function is nowadays? Curious about this since this excuse is poor too so I rather just try to figure out how misinformed you really are.
It's to hold our prisoners of war and potentially other inconvenient people indefinitely.
If you're apologizing for the fact that Gitmo exists…
@Dorobō:
They helped get Trump in which resulted in a deadly pandemic getting in here that killed over half a million Americans. And you give Biden more shit there than you ever gave Trump. Simply because what? He was not fast enough to waive covid patents?
OK seriously, what the hell?
You can't just blatantly lie and hand-wave away the literally hundreds of times I've called out Trump on COVID (thousands of times if you include all of the Discord servers I'm on) just because I said "I hope Biden doesn't screw this up" and then politely called him out for making a huge mistake for three whole months which he began to correct almost immediately after I complained, completely validating my point.
…And then I complimented Biden by saying he was the most reasonable president in the last 20 years.
@Dorobō:
There is something to the security vs safety debate as I said but there is no way, no how I would ever want engage with you on it because I know where you stand on these issues. And it's….... not good.
Do you?
You think I'm an anti-black right-wing libertarian who hates Biden more than Trump.
@Dorobō:
So not shocked you would rather never know about what Snowden actually did or what it will lead to. You're not actually for information being known here if you don't support a trial and instead want what? A blanket pardon?
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I don't support a trial.
I want a fair trial without the possibility of him being extrajudicially assassinated or tortured.
I just don't believe that's possible for Snowden at the moment.
@Dorobō:
Anything for white cis men right-wingers to get off scot-free I guess.
Seriously, why do you have this idea in your head that every political opinion is motivated by race, gender and/or partisan bias?
I'm for pardoning all of the nonviolent drug offenders too, for what it's worth.
Feel free to provide me with a list of all the non-white, non-cis people you think deserve a pardon and I'll take a look at it.
@Dorobō:
You're never getting that pardon until he turns himself in and don't ever expect it until he turns himself in.
Probably.
I don't really expect Biden to pardon him but I just figured I'd bring it up while he's doing the right thing.
@Dorobō:
If this post gets me a ban or a thread ban. It's alright. Sick of of people idolizing privileged right-wing white cisgender men and their bullshit hypocritical crusades. They made me post this. They forced me to post this. Also I kicked a bag of kittens while writing all this but that doesn't matter as much as the point I am making here so it was alright! Wait no, I forgot I am not a privileged right-wing white cisgender man! Never mind this post was bad and I should be shot in the balls.
Not for the kittens being kicked part though.
Nobody forced you to type up half a page of text about how Snowden is a secret right-winger whose supporters are all cisgender right-wing racists.