@Pantheras:

Although some of what you said is true, but as far as those three being overpowered in one-on-one fights, you do realize that this was a similar argument against Jinbe. Mostly pre-timeskip, of course, but even in the weeks leading up to the Fishman fights, there were people who still thought that Jinbe's power disrupted a dynamic of the Strawhats.

And regarding on how to use basic logic, this is especially easy to say if you are the supporter of the theory that turns out to be correct. While there are ridiculous forms of logic people will use to argue for(or against) a potential future crewmate, it is only logical at a certain point in the story. Oda is the storyteller, so he is creating the logic of what happens. If someone had told this forum several years ago about half the things that happen in this manga(like Blackbeard getting two fruits), they would get laughed at, and the other members would be calling on that person to be banned for trolling. I suppose I'm saying that knocking the supporters of other characters at this point seems like an incredibly haughty thing to do when it doesn't matter anymore for those characters now.

Pantheras is right, at least to a certain degree. Well thought out theories of what might happen in the future in One Piece are, at least for me, always appreciated. I remember a post( at that time i was just a silent reader of the forum) i think by brennen.exe two and a half years ago in which he showed his theory of Jinbe joining. At that point, most of the forum members laughed at that theory but just look at what happens now. There were also very good theories about Hancock joining btw but that obviously didn´t happen. I also have to say though that there are people who just declare that a character will join just because he/she has a nice style or because a character is a girl and that´s what the SH need. That´s obviously plain stupid and has no constructive value for a discussion in the forum.

So concerning Bonney, i think she will play a huge role in one of the upcoming arcs where she could be a candidate for joining. Reasons:
1.) It seems like she has some kind of relation to either WB or Ace (which i would prefer actually) because she was crying when WB was accused of betraying his comrades.
2.) She swore after the war to find the one responsible for WB and Ace´s death in the New World and then we see her after having lost to BB (where he claims btw, that she doesn´t deserve a bounty of over 100mil, this could also be a good plotline if she would join SH and then fight again against the Blackbeard Pirates).
3.) She has some kind of connection to the Government (because of what Akainu said), be it as a slave maybe or even a noble.
4.) She is one of the few Supernova who had a direct interaction with one of the Strawhats (Zoro), though i have to admit it was pretty short.
5.) She also swore at Sabaody to find the SH and fight them because it was their fault that an Admiral came to the island.

At this point, i really could imagine a scenario where Bonney is on the run(without her crew obviously) and requires help and the SH,like many times, agrees to help her which would be actually quite ironic because Bonney was the one who said that pirates aren´t people who go and help people randomly.

@Monquito:

Hiyori going 'The Lannisters sent their regards' on Orochi, lmao.

Oda still cant let go of GoT.

More like the north never forgets

@kouch_lee:

I feel like this is pure thread derailment at this point, but why not?

Basically, I read the first chapters of both JJK and KnY. You definitely can't judge a shonen manga by its first chapter, but it strikes me as odd how incredibly amateurish KnY's art looks. JJK has its own style and looks crisp and unique (even if not mindblowing), but KnY looks straight up bad. Again, only read the first chapter of each, but the way they are JJK feels like it'll be more rewarding in the long run. Weird choice to make the protagonist kind of an already established badass, since these mangas usually go for the underdog, but interesting none the less.

Now, KnY did go for something a bit different in terms of drama and tragedy, which I guess was its main pull for audiences, but again, it's shocking how bad the art looks.

Just random thoughts that mean nothing since these are just the first chapters. Didn't feel a massive urge to keep on reading any of them, but I might in the future, who knows.

My theory: KnY drew a lot of people in due to the anime´s great animation (it´s really incredible) and with that animation hooked them on the story.
After being invested in the story, the artstyle of the manga did not matter.

@astagadragon:

So basically you're saying that OP doesn't need new readers? One thing that make both Demon Slayer super big is that they bring a new generation of manga readers. Without new readers, a series will stagnate. And that is happening to OP right now. I'd expect the sales forward to decline even more…

Stagnate does not mean decline…

@Zik:

Doesn't need to gain new readership. Just look at where it is on the list.

How much longer can they milk having AoT and Demon Slayer there?

JJK is still in the midst of its hype. Yep KnY and SnK are probably gonna lose places next year, the latter probably won´t make it to top 10, but it´s not like the success of JJK and KnY is because they are that incredible.
They just fit the taste of the newer generation more, have their basics right, and are much shorter. And the industry after SnK understood that adapting such mangas early with a higher budget can lead to dramatic increase in manga sales, hence why you see far more adaptations post-SnK. Before that, Light Novels were the go to for adaptations for similar reasons.

Next year two mangas that are already in the top 10, Chainsaw Man and Spy x Family, are going to get adaptations from big studios.
I doubt this trend is going to stop anytime soon. The individual titles might get switched out, but every year a new title will get hyped.

Nevertheless, not a bad place to be whatsoever, basically staying consistently in top 5 regardless of the newest hype.

@Lana_Patrick:

I'm too dumb to find all the numbers from Oricon for One Piece since they started taking the numbers, but I'd love too se a chart of One Piece's sales year by year. See when was the peak, how much it has declined, where was the lowest point, these kinds of info.

Not a chart but list

https://myanimelist.net/forum/?clubid=65525

@andre:

This is the third year in a row and the thread has looked basically exactly like this. There will be another JJY that will blitz in and sell like hotcakes and people will worry about OP (My guess is Chainsaw Man). It will be fine and I wager once the last volume hits, One Piece will do some things that have never been seen in the industry.

I don´t think anybody "worries" about OP, just stating the obvious.

I do think that once OP ends, there will be a substantial new readership, since many people, especially in context of long series, like to wait for conclusions, and the final war might actually also recreate Marineford regarding the action.

@Vongola_Boss_XI:

Yes, One Piece coming in a lower place has less to do with the decline of One Piece than it does the truly incredible sales of these new series. One Piece only ever did these types of numbers in the years around Strong World's release. As Captain M says, people are going back and buying all the previous volumes for series like JJK and Demon Slayer.

One Piece is being driven entirely by new volumes released in this calendar year and Oda's publication pace has necessarily slowed down.

So we can really just say good for these new series without worrying about One Piece. It's not pulling the same numbers as it did at its peak, but it's also still undoubtedly incredibly popular, particularly for such a long running series.

I'm actually most curious now to see if the Live Action series could create a new boom in sales, perhaps even in the west if the show is a big hit. The odds that live action One Piece will be as big as Game of Thrones are incredibly low. I mean, I'd love to be wrong. I'd love to see US audiences as enthralled with the voyage of Monkey D. Luffy as they are with 'Baby Yoda'. I can dream.

The live action series is probably still two years away. Maybe it can be the next Stranger Things size hit for Netflix.

I'm just curious to see what, if any, the potential success of the live action series could have on manga sales. In the US, comics and manga are a far more niche industry and I don't get the sense that the MCU has had a tremendous impact on Marvel Comics. I do know that A Song of Ice and Fire became much more popular through Game of Thrones but I wouldn't say anywhere close to a majority of show viewers also checked out the novels.

If the show does succeed, Viz & Shueisha should be ready to go with some deluxe 3-in-1 type books. That's actually what I'm most hoping for from One Piece. Also the digitally colored editions in print.

But at the core of it, this is much more about the phenomenal success of these new series than it is the decline of One Piece. The latter might grab more headlines, but it's less descriptive of reality. One Piece is still selling incredibly well. It received a huge boost in popularity with Strong World and the Marineford arc which buoyed sales to 34(?)+ million in its peak year, which at the time was unprecedented. It reigned at the top of the sales chart until the past couple years; a decade+ long run as number 1 in annual sales is still unprecedented and it's still the overall highest-selling manga of all time. One Piece outsold Spider-Man. Demon Slayer has surpassed One Piece in terms of average sales per volume (6.5 vs. 4.9), but that's also the one title One Piece never claimed from Dragon Ball.

As for anything else, I'm sure Shueisha isn't panicking or even upset by One Piece seeing a slight, gradual decline in sales. One Piece sales have gradually declined since the big wave created by Strong World / the Paramount War. It seems to have settled into a 7 - 10 million pattern. If you go back to the mid to late 2000's, sales numbers like what One Piece is putting up now would have still placed it near the top of the annual sales chart.

What this means is that the success of JJK and KnY is not coming at the expense of the 'reigning king' so to speak. It suggests that the manga industry as a whole has expanded and that these series are bringing in new readers. That they were able to so completely dominate the sales chart without One Piece suffering a precipitous decline in sales suggests only the sheer magnitude of their success. This is a win for Shueisha. They have their super dependable 100 Volume long series still selling 7 - 10 million books on an annual basis and they now have clearly discovered a successful pattern for new series. They don't have to worry about finding the next One Piece or even Naruto level success. JJK proves KnY isn't an anomaly. As Captain M said, it's a winning formula which doesn't rely on series like One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, and Dragon Ball which are designed to last for hundreds and hundreds of chapters.

KnY ended after 23 volumes and from what I understand, JJK is unlikely to run for a long time. MHA is clearly rushing toward a conclusion sometime in probably the next 50 - 100 chapters (at most). From what I understand Dr. Stone is also close to ending, leaving Black Clover as the longest consistently running series in Jump (not counting Hunter x Hunter) aside from One Piece.

I'm of the opinion One Piece still has about 11 - 12 years left, which I know is not particularly common given Oda's comments. Personally, I have really loved everything from Zou through Wano and this is the most I have enjoyed weekly One Piece since CP9 through the Paramount War. Oda's clearly enjoying writing his story. A modest decline in sales for a 100 volume long series isn't going to raise any alarms. The fact that the series is still reliably selling so well is a strength, not a weakness. And they still have cards to play that will probably increase One Piece manga sales again in the future. I already mentioned the live action series. When the series does eventually approach its climax, the end of One Piece is going to be big news. And they can also reboot the anime, whether that's a full remake like FMA Brotherhood / HxH 2011, or an edited version like DBZ Kai remains to be seen.

It's a weird case where the current anime has stuck to the story of One Piece unlike FMA Brotherhood. One Piece has consistently run in the magazine, so the anime wasn't forced to end like Hunter x Hunter. So it's harder t justify a full remake of the series. At the same time, the first two story sagas in the anime are very clos to the pacing of the manga. Without much fat to trim, it's hard to imagine a DBZ Kai style reboot having as much appeal. Not to mention, One Piece transitioned from 4:3 to 16:9 during its lifetime and there are dramatic pacing issues and some rough animation in later story sagas. There could also be some competition between an anime reboot and the live action series considering they would be covering the same part of the story. I'm not saying they absolutely wil reboot the anime, just saying it's a card they could play that would boost manga sales. My bet is that the current anime series will end 1 - 2 years after the manga finally concludes, which means a solid decade if Robby is right and One Piece ends in 7 years, or even longer if my estimate of 11 - 12 years for the manga is correct.

I would bet more money on a sequel or some type of anime-original story set in the world of One Piece like Boruto following the conclusion of the manga. They'll let time pass and remake the One Piece anime sometime farther into the future when several years have passed from the conclusion of the current series. They'll make it high budget, seasonal, and start from the beginning.

The last point I will make is that Naruto sold about 7.4 million copies in its peak year, 2010, and declined to 3+ million in 2015, the year it ended. One Piece, in a 'slump' year with only 3 volumes, is still putting up comparable to Naruto at its peak. And Naruto is a series considered to be a mega hit by Shueisha. One Piece is not in any danger and any predictions of doom or even concern are not really justified. Sheuisha is still spending a ton of money on promoting One Piece. Think about all the fanfare surrounding chapter 1000, volume 100, and episode 1000. There's a new film next year, an upcoming live action series, and as discussed, there are ways they can perpetuate the success of One Piece even after Oda finally finishes creating his masterpiece manga. No one is going to rush Oda along or urge him to change the course of his series to capture sales / an audience that aren't his to capture. A series has to play to its own strengths. One Piece is 100+ volumes long and it would be ruined by trying to capture the same audience as Demon Slayer and JJK. One Piece just needs to stay the course until it reaches the end of its voyage, which I hope is not too fast approaching.

Both are possible. Both KnY and JJK have either more individual volume sales this year or have actually sold more per volume. Heck, KnY even surpassed Dragonball in sales per volume, which is crazy.
Having said that, OP both declined (unless people switched to digital) and also still relies to back sales to a certain extent, see difference between new volume sales and overall sales and the other two (by extension SnK) are incredible successes.
At the height of its success per year, OP was still "only" selling around 3-3.5 million copies for new volumes, so the majority of its sales back then were also due to back sales.
But from that number, OP now dropped to 2-2.5 million, which is still far ahead of 99% of other mangas, but also still a decline of 30-33%, that´s not nothing.

But you go too easy on OP. Regardless of what i think of OP currently, or the fact that what OP as manga represents is incredible, and the success it achieved and is still achieving is amazing, Shueisha still failed to accomplish what they wanted to do, namely to create another Marineford with Wano. Marineford happened 11 years ago, basically you have a whole new generation of teenager readers to hook, and OP, at least from the volume sales, has not achieved that. And those new readers probably went to KnY and JJK, for different reasons, some zeltrax mentioned in his post.

So to summarize and clarify:

1. Whatever OP achieved and is still achieving is tremendous.
2. It still shows a clear trend.

@King:

One Piece was at the peak of its popularity when it was exactly that (Marineford).

That´s too simplistic of a few to be honest, of course same applied to kdom´s post to a certain extent.

1. MF was only 30 chapters, if you put the entire post-war stuff to it, 47 chapters, which back then was approximately one year.

2. MF was pure action, and the other characters with focus were mostly show in context of action, or were already introduced far earlier, thus already familiar to the readers/audience, so did not require any characterization. Except of course Whitebeard and Akainu, who are both huge characters.

@andre:

It seems the industry is in a more healthy place than it was when One Piece was king for a decade and everything else was kind of falling off.

Besides OP being that superior, i don´t think so.
You had a far more diverse top ten back then (Nodame, Nana, FMA, Gintama, Death Note, Major, Honey and Clover, 20th Century Boys, Saint Young Men…).
Of course the market was dominated by action shounen with OP, Naruto and Bleach but after that, you could have different genres, target audience, subject matter and so forth.
Now the top 10 is filled with action shounen or action shounen like.

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@auem:

I have read the full manga of Demon Slayer. It is so mediocre. Even if anime is so great, it doesn't justify the popularity. It's sales/volume is above OP, which is ridiculous. My view is that nowadays mediocre things get hyped more often. Same thing is happening in manga industry.

It depends on what you expect from a series.
Oda is both too long and also requires attention to understand the context of arcs, characters, events and so forth.
Most people just don´t want to invest that kind of attention and time, fairly normal.

And Yaiba and JJK had such great animes that they attracted a lot of casual viewers who wanted to know how it continues -> buy the volumes.

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@zeltrax225:

JJK is really good, its the closest we can get to HxH for our generation. People should seriously try it out before raining on the popularity parade because its not One Piece.
You don't get why it is good and why it is popular, it is on you. The reason you get why One Piece is popular and sank hours into it is also on you, alot of people don't have that dedication and are casual about it, especially with Demon Slayer. Attack on Titan selling like hotcakes make a lot of sense considering it is the last volume and whatever the ending is(its only the last chapter that ruined everything), closure is a thing for people who have been collecting.

The chart isn't as illogical as people think, if anything it shows that there is competency for the torch to be handed over to the next generation.
SPY Family, Kingdom, Haikyuu are all insanely good manga that is cream of the crop and they rightfully made that list. Just because KnY has what most would consider a slightly above average story does not invalidate the entire list. KnY also created this craze and insane wave across the world that has not been seen before for a long time for the community. Whether you like it or not, people who hasn't touched a manga volume before are now coming in.

I like KnY and can see why it is popular but I can also understand why people don't find the story special.
I don't like Tokyo Revengers and don't find the story speical, but can understand why it is popular and loved.
It's not that difficult.

Completely agreed.

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@mrsword:

2 years would've been fine.

Wano is approaching its FOURTH year now, its already over 3.5 years long.

At some point you just get sick of it. Move on already

The length would not be a problem if it was justified to be honest.

@Zik:

Yes it does.

All of the admirals have different personalities and are subject to different whims.

And yet he still took a random bike ride to check up on Robin, almost killed her and Luffy. You're providing the examples that directly contradict what you've said.

That had nothing to do with the balance of power or an extraordinary circumstance like Marineford.

Not only that but admirals are at the beck and call of the celestial dragons. Kuzan showing up in Saboady was cuz celestial dragon was punched. Not killed or kidnapped. No balance of power in jeopardy

Something the worst generation pirates are not.

Amd yet Sakazuki personally showed up when Bonney was left helpless after being defeated by Blackbeard then specifically remarked about the importance of her previously escaping the marines before and why that required his presence then.

The Marines doing their job doesn't have to be seen as "making moves". Their new stance and HQ presence in the New World was a direct message to the pirate emperors after the death of Whitebeard and the start of this new age.

It doesn´t, the personalities do not disprove every other context we have.

And it was underlined that this is a rare occurrence, hence why the entire HQ was on high alert, because one Admiral decided to leave on a whim.
It´s literally the exception that proves the rule, not that this happens for any pirate.
Putting aside the clear personal investment of Aokiji in Robin by the way, which we have nothing of the sort for Aka/Kid.
Tenryuubito i adressed. Unless you are talking about Kid somehow having something to do with the Tenryuubito, which is another claim not remotely substantiated, they are irrelevant to the point that Admirals at best move for the big events.
Or you are talking about Kid supposedly being an accomplice 2 years ago in Shabondy, which is also irrelevant, see Law becoming a Shichibukai.

They literally are second rate pirates, because they are not first rate, which is reserved for the Yonkou.

Which was in context with the war, as i said.

They do, if you want to substantiate your point, which you haven´t.
There has to be an example of Marines trying to disrupt the happenings in the New World actively, for a Fleet Admiral to actually do that personally and so on, nothing of the sort happened, which was directly addressed in the manga, they are preparing.