You don't need to be a genius scientist to know that birds and snow are a most excellent combination. Vote for Monet!
Posts made by Kylor
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RE: Franky vs. Monet: Victory of Transhumanism
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RE: Franky vs. Monet: Victory of Transhumanism
As we all know, Monet is an expert scientist in all kinds of fields, unmatched in chemistry, biology, and astronomy, but did you know that she's a genius in another field of study as well? There's one little known area of study in which Monet not only excels, she leads the way. What is it you may ask?
Vote for Monet: PhD in Swordsman Identification.
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RE: Thoughts on the last movie you watched.
Reservoir Dogs.
Definitely the kind of grim, character-driven fun that I really like. The pacing and even the overall tone of the film made it feel like I was watching a play, which, as a theatre guy myself, I very much appreciated. I don't know if I would say it's as refined as Tarantino's later works, but at the same time, that also makes it one of the most pure, and that makes it great in its own right. I also really liked the nonlinear kind of storytelling, and that even though we didn't exactly see everything chronologically or even conventionally, it still followed a clear structure. I have no idea how I took so long to see this, particularly since it has such an obvious influence on other things that I like.
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RE: Franky vs. Monet: Victory of Transhumanism
Many stories have been told of the Snow Woman. Before One Piece they were told, and they will linger long after the series is done. In honor of today's match, I would like to share with you one such story, which is among the oldest and most well-known. Not only is it a classic fable of terror, but it also contains a lesson that we all must heed. With that in mind, please join me, for the grim story of the two woodcutters… and the Yuki-Onna.
! Once upon a time, in a lonely little village, there lived two humble woodcutters. Mosaku was an older man, but strong from his many years of hard work, while his apprentice, Minokichi, was only eighteen, but already a fine, upstanding young man, with a steady future ahead of him. It was a rough, snowy winter, and the bitter winds swept and bit at the pair, but still they ventured into the forest to work, just like they did every day. With a season as bad as that one, they knew their work was needed more than ever. Even when they were hit with a terrible snowstorm, they worked and worked until the sun began to set, and only then started to head home, though they had been shivering ever since they started.
! Now, the only way to get to the forest from the village and back was by crossing a river, with but a single ferryman as the only means of getting from one side to another. As the two woodcutters trudged back to the river, they had expected their good friend the ferryman to be there waiting, as he always was. But on that night, the coldest of all nights, he was nowhere to be seen. Even stranger, his boat was drifting along down the river, too far away for either of them to reach. Mosaku and Minokichi called out for the ferryman, but they heard no answer. The ferryman couldn’t have wandered off anywhere, since they couldn’t see any footprints in the pure, untouched snow beneath them. Minokichi was concerned, and had started to shiver with more than just the cold, but Mosaku laughed at his apprentice’s cowardice. “He must have gone back home already, and forgot to tie up his boat,” he said. “Serves him right, for leaving us here. Won’t he feel silly when he wakes up, eh?” Minokichi was doubtful at first, but eventually agreed, and the two set out in search of somewhere to stay for the night. As it was, they wouldn’t last long in the snowstorm without some shelter.
! After some walking, they came to a small hut in the woods. It had no windows, and didn’t look from the outside to be very comfortable, but it was already too dark for either of them to see very far, and staying there would be better than freezing while wandering blindly through the wilderness. Minokichi eagerly knocked on the door. No answer. He knocked again, and, without any response, turned to Mosaku.
! “Well, what are you waiting for, boy?” Mosaku said. “Go on in!”
! “Should we?” Minokichi asked nervously. “But wouldn’t we be trespassing?”
! “Bah! If he didn’t want visitors, then he should have left a note saying so. Now open the door, I’m cold.”
! Minokichi frowned, not too happy about the situation, but obeyed his elder. Whatever doubts he had a few minutes ago went away the second he was out of the snowstorm. There was no place in the hut to make a fire, which disappointed them both, so they wrapped themselves up in their straw coats, and tried to fall asleep. They were both weary from the day’s labor, and knew that sleep would come in spite of the cold. Mosaku fell asleep almost immediately, but Minokichi stayed up, awake. Despite what the old man’s reassurances, he was still worried about the ferryman, and was uneasy about staying in a stranger’s home. The storm wasn’t getting any better either. Snow pounded against the doors and ceiling of the hut, and even through his coat, the cold clung onto the poor boy. The wind was screaming outside, rattling the walls of the hut. But, over time, the rhythmic creaking of the hut began to sound relaxing to the youth, and the night wind almost sounded like a singing voice…
! Minokichi awoke suddenly to the sensation of snow on his face. At some point during the night, after he had fallen asleep, the door had blown open, and now the small hut was coated in snow. The moon shone in through the open door, and its light reflected off the snow, covering the space in a pale glow. That is, everywhere except for a tall shadow, right over Minokichi.
! He quickly turned around, frightened, and saw a woman standing in the center of the room. She was dressed all in white, and her unblemished skin seemed no different from the snow that surrounded her. Though it was still dark outside, Minokichi could vividly see the woman’s every detail, as if an unearthly light was surrounding her. Only her hair was black, so dark that it seemed to have been woven from the night sky itself. And her eyes… he did not look long at her eyes. Minokichi was young, and there was much that he did not know, but even he knew when he was looking at someone who was not of his world. He wanted to run, to scream, to do anything except stay right there, but he couldn’t, like he had been frozen where he lay.
! The woman bent down over Mosaku, who was still fast asleep, even while the storm was howling right into the hut, and blew her breath upon him. At least, Minokichi thought it was breath, for it more resembled some kind of white smoke. As the smoke touched Mosaku’s face, the old man grew still, his lips turned blue, and frost appeared on his cheeks and eyelids. It looked as though he had been dead for a long time. Minokichi tried again to scream, and found that, even though his mouth was wide open, and his face was twisted in fear, no sound could come out. The woman then turned, and looked at Minokichi, as if she had only just noticed him for the first time. She rose to her feet and walked, slowly, slowly, over to the boy, and bent down over him, lower and lower, until her face nearly touched his. Minokichi was trapped now. Even if he could move, there was nothing he could do. The closer the woman got to him, the colder the air became, colder than cold, so cold that Minokichi half thought that he was already dead and in the underworld. The woman smiled gently, and though she was beautiful, and her smile kind and inviting, it seemed more terrible than any monster or demon that Minokichi could imagine. The two of them both remained there for a while, the woman and the boy, until finally she spoke, and though the wind still wailed around them, he could hear clearly every syllable. She said, in a voice like ice, words that Minokichi would never forget until the day that he died…
! “Vote for Monet. 2016.” -
RE: Indecision 2016 - In Soviet Russia, we elect american president!
TLDR version. She's statistically more honest than most politicians, most of the scandals have been hack jobs with no bearing in reality, the money she's earned is about normal for someone of her profile, and she is not in any way actually sold out to wall street, any more than she's sold out to Canada. And she's actually one of the most qualified people in history to go for the job.
Gotcha. Thanks. For the record, I was never concerned about the supposed "scandals" as long as you mean stuff like the email thing and other Silly Distractions, most of the stuff that I found most troubling came from Clinton herself during the campaign, like the whole "I don't know where Bernie Sanders was when I was trying to get healthcare reform in 93" thing and a lot of her vague non-answers that she's given when challenged. Things like that. But few if any of my concerns came from the standard nonsense points I've been hearing a lot of. Trust me, I've been just as annoyed with them as you, considering they've done nothing but take away from the actual conversations that we could be having. But I'm glad there's evidence that her Wall Street connections won't be too damaging, that puts me at ease a little.
I want to believe in Hillary. I want to trust that she'll be better at being a president than she is at running for president. I really do. But still, forgive me if I'm still a bit reluctant to proclaim my unconditional faith in her from the rooftops just yet. There's still a lot that I'm wondering about, but that can only really be answered by what she actually manages to do when she wins, and if they actually take us in a better direction or not… same as it would be for anyone, really.
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RE: Pokémon ORAS and Spinoffs: We Go!
It's a weird issue that's come up for me a couple of times before, but both times it went away with a simple reset. This one time the problem just got especially obnoxious, and I got bored with dealing with it. That's all, really.
Still, it would be nice if someone could come up with a way to avoid this issue or even a simple explanation, so other players don't get inconvenienced. I know I'm not the only person this has happened to, even in this thread, I just have no idea how common it really is.
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RE: Indecision 2016 - In Soviet Russia, we elect american president!
Bernie supporter here (WHOA hey there friends, I'm not gonna vote for Trump or anything now, let's just put down those torches, yeah?). Now that Hillary has the nomination clearly, for sure (and really I've accepted that for a while) I have no real problem with voting for her, but I do have a question that I am honestly curious about.
Given Clinton's track record, there is some concern that she might be, to put it lightly, untrustworthy. Obviously, the side that I was a part of has taken these concerns to absolute parody levels, but I do think there is some truth to them. She's abandoned causes for the sake of appealing to corporations before, and a lot of her answers during the debates have been, I won't skirt the issue here, suspiciously evasive. Which is the main reason I've been reluctant to show her my support until now, her alleged closeness to Wall Street is frankly troubling to me, since it ties into a couple of my bigger issues as a voter. What do you all think? Will this be an issue when she's president, is all that behind her, or was it never actually an issue to begin with? I'm not asking to be confrontational, I would simply like to know.
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RE: Thoughts on the last movie you watched.
Ocean Waves.
In my opinion, this is by FAR the worst movie Studio Ghibli has ever produced, and easily one of the worst films I've seen this year. Almost nothing about it was likeable. The plot was meandering and pointless, the direction was astoundingly dull, the music was bad, and… oh god... these characters. There are few words to describe what selfish, manipulative, unpleasant, awful people these characters are, and I spent the entire movie wishing that something truly awful would happen to one of them, just to get their insipid, petty lives in perspective. Nearly everything that has made Ghibli great, Ocean Waves found a way to ruin. As for good things about it, I guess I could say that the vaguely non-linear structure was interesting, and it was easily one of the most accurate depiction of high schoolers that I've ever seen... but even that, I would call a negative. I just so, so badly wanted this movie to stop. Tales from Earthsea was a masterpiece compared to this.
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RE: Pokémon ORAS and Spinoffs: We Go!
Tried going out today to catch Pokemon. Leveled up. The game gets stuck on the level up screen. I tap on every part of the screen there is, nothing happens. I force quit the app, restart my phone, try again. Game gets stuck on the loading screen, as will sometimes happen when I try to reset it. Turn off the phone again, try again, same result. A third time. Nothing. I try one more time. I manage to get so far as the part where I log in. I do so. All my Pokemon are gone, again. Phone goes off and on again, stuck on the loading screen again. Long story short, I deleted the game from my phone. Nothing is worth the time I spent just trying to get to the part where I play the damn game. There is no reason for this level of incompetence, and and even if Niantic fixes these issues, I'm not going to give them any more of my attention or time. They do not deserve it.
Basically, I'm giving up here. Game's too broken to play.
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RE: One piece treasure cruise (7/11 Never Forget)
New units for me: Gear 3 Luffy, Hack, STR Kumadori (evolved and unevolved) Lao G, Arm Point Chopper, Bepo, Diamante, Chaka, DEX Kaku (evolved), Ms. Valentine, Pell, Koza, Heavy Point Chopper, INT Ivankov.
Not bad… not bad.
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RE: 2016 APCT Third Round Discussion Thread: Tiger vs. Dragon and Other Critters
Against Franky, huh?
Well, nobody ever said that flying to the top would be easy.
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RE: Pokémon ORAS and Spinoffs: We Go!
…That is such an obvious solution, I'm now mad at myself for not thinking of it earlier. Thanks Chrissie!
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RE: Pokémon ORAS and Spinoffs: We Go!
So far I've had to uninstall and reboot this game three separate times due to various issues. And I've had it for less than a day. Current issue is that all the Pokemon friends I just spent like an hour gathering in the oppressive Arizona sun are gone. Just… they're all gone.
Gonna stick to just playing Treasure Cruise forever now. Maaaaybe I'll come back to this in a few weeks if they've sorted out the issues, but I have lost all willingness to put up with this garbage. For such a high profile thing, this is inexcusable.
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RE: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0
@le:
Now I am wondering, where did the peg leg (Long John Silver actually used a boring crutch), and the Flying Dutchman tale came from?
The Flying Dutchman is an old seafaring legend, so it's hard to pin down an exact source. There are many variations of the tale, but several of them do name "Van der Decken" as the ship's captain, so One Piece is accurate in that regard… but pretty much only in that regard. It really only because a specifically pirate-related legend AFTER the increase in popularity of pirate fiction, though, the versions that came before it were more open to interpretation. As for peglegs, they were an actual replacement for missing limbs before modern prosthetics, and even for some time after. They only really became associated with pirates because of how dangerous sailing could be, and so many seafarers went around with missing limbs. Though for a specific literary example of peglegs being associated with sailors, Captain Ahab from Moby-Dick is a really well known pegleg wearer. He wasn't a pirate, but he did help solidify the "salty captain" stereotype that pervades a great deal of nautical fiction. Also, I have to take some issue with your comment about Long John Silver's "boring crutch" considering at one point in the novel he uses it to break a man's spine by throwing it at him. That's pretty rad if you ask me.
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RE: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0
Ooh, we talking about Treasure Island? I was in a stage version of that a long time ago! Yeah, for anyone who's really interested in seeing some of the inspiration behind One Piece, I would easily consider that book to be required reading. A lot of the early look of OP feels very Treasure Island-like, for sure, and the book more or less defined the kind of idealized notion of piracy that One Piece is just drenched in. That's not even mentioning the more direct parallels. On top of what others have mentioned, Captain Flint from the book can be seen as a proto-Gold Roger, for example. I recommend at least trying it out!
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RE: 749: ''White-Hot Swordsmanship - Law and Zoro Finally Arrive!''
Well… it was better than the last one. Desire continues to be the high point of this arc, and I did like that tag-team move Law and Kin'emon pulled off. And that is precisely all I have to say about this episode.
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RE: 748: ''An Underground Maze - Luffy vs. the Cart Man''
The whole concept behind this episode could have been good. It could've been really neat, actually. But somehow, through the power of bad animation, the concept of Luffy, Bartolomeo, and easily one of the better filler characters in One Piece rolling around a wacky broken mineshaft environment while being chased around by a guy who can turn into a cart is just… boring. Here's where Toei really had a chance to shine, and have the sort of fun, lively action scene that just wouldn't be possible in the manga format, but instead it's all just so lazy, with no love or creativity put into the choreography at all. I found the storyline to be much in the same vein as well, more coasting along to fill time rather than actually telling a story, with some of the most flat, lifeless scenes I've watched recently. It genuinely feels like nobody who was involved with this cared about the product they were making in the slightest, and as such, I don't care either. I can't even be mad at it, it's just so... drenched in apathy. The fact that it's all set in a cave that consists entirely of various shades of grey doesn't help much either. Again, not everything is horrible. Desire is a high point and I do like the concept of the cart battle if not the execution, but even the good things they have, in context, seem so very squandered. I'm still baffled that Toei thinks they can get away with this, but not surprised.
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RE: Your favourite anime films?
Right now, at the current moment, to be changed with my whims and the time of year…
Princess Mononoke (my actual favorite movie of all time)
My Neighbor Totoro
Summer Wars
Whisper of the Heart
One Piece Film: Z (Hang the plebeian! HANG THE PLEBEIAN!)
All the other movies that I haven't thought of at the moment, but am absolutely going to remember the moment I post this and feel like a moron for forgetting. -
RE: Chapter 831: Adventure in a Mysterious Forest
I can actually really see the Thriller Bark resemblance here. A lot of time is devoted to exploring a weird, out-of-the-ordinary place before anyone really knows exactly what's happening, and it gets progressively more surreal as the characters themselves become more freaked out, while also subtly introducing us to the villains that will become important later once the arc becomes more grounded. Personally, as long as the arc keeps up this sort of pace and feeling, I have absolutely no complaints whatsoever. Between this and the last arc, Oda has really been showing off his creativity, and it's this sense of adventure, more than anything else, that keeps me coming back.
Also, as far as characterization goes, I love how Luffy, Carrot, and Chopper never seem to stop being excited over being on a candy island. Not only is it incredibly in character, I just like how much of the chapter's energy comes from their reactions. Very tight storytelling all around.
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RE: What did Luffy say?
If I remember well, in japanese he says "ore wa na…", which means something like "Then, I..."
I have been wondering about what Luffy says there, and I think he'll say "I wanna be the most free man in the world".
Thanks a lot for answering! If I'm not mistaken, isn't Luffy's regular catchphrase, in Japanese, "kaizoku-ou ni ore wa naru" (i.e, the words "pirate king" come first)? If so, then I think we can basically confirm that Oda intentionally wrote the line in such a way as to draw attention to the fact that the King of the Pirates isn't being mentioned here. That's really helpful!
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RE: What did Luffy say?
Huh. When I first read the chapter, I took the omission as a sort of gag thing, like it was Oda saying, "you all already know what Luffy says here, so I'll just skip to the reactions." But looking back at the chapter (link in the OP didn't show up for me so I used the Viz translation, no idea what the others say) Luffy says, "I WANT to be…" Want. Now, while Luffy's regular catchphrase is "I'm GONNA be king of the pirates," or the other variation that comes up sometimes, "I'm the man who WILL BECOME king of the pirates," it's possible that the version in this chapter is just what he said as a kid and he changed it later to be more definitive... but still, if he's just talking about being king of the pirates, I do believe this is the first time he's ever left any room for error. So yeah, it's highly likely that he's talking about something else here. No idea what it is, but it could be something more vague or abstract than what we've normally seen from him. I'll have to think more on this later, but it's pretty clear that Oda put that difference in there for a reason.
Any translators here wanna talk about the wording? Guys? Anyone?
EDIT: Just checked volume one, Luffy was saying "I'm gonna be king of the pirates" ever since the first chapter, which takes place before this one. So it's even more likely that what he wants to be is something else .
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RE: 747: ''The Silver Fortress - Luffy and Barto's Big Adventure''
Really not sure exactly where this arc can go from here. There's some room for expansion, I guess, but at the same time, we're only one episode in and it already feels kind of… meandering, I guess? Like Toei themselves aren't too sure where this is going. Speaking of Toei, that animation is, well, par for the course for them, I suppose. I won't act too surprised that the episode itself looks like that, but when it's in the opening too, that's really bad, guys. Seriously. As for the storyline, I'll withhold judgment until we see more of Luffy and the Punks' Wacky Mineshaft Pinball Escapades.
Desire was easily the high point of the episode for me, probably this arc as a whole. Can't really say why, there's just something about her whole aesthetic and characterization that's appealing to me. None of the other characters stood out that much, though. Bill has more going on with him design-wise than, say, Gild Tesoro, but I still can't help but noticing that, if this was the manga, he really wouldn't look out of place as part of the random pirate crowds that Luffy plows through on a regular basis.
Aside from the garbage visuals, I did rather like the opening. The style of music used fits One Piece rather well and it's suitably catchy and energetic.
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RE: 2016 APCT Second Round Discussion Thread: Mano a Mano
Now that the match is over, I would like to tip my hat to the Wicca supporters, Kubihige in particular, for the incredible amount of devotion they showed. I was continuously amazed, amused, inspired, you name it, by the sheer amount of energy and effort put into those campaigns. Not only did you give both characters a great match, you gave Wicca the amount of love that she so clearly deserves. If Monet had hands, I'm sure she'd be applauding you, too. It makes me proud to have had a part in such an intense and fulfilling match.
And to those who voted Monet, I can't thank you enough for the support. Please keep the momentum going in the next match, and let's help Monet fly to the top!
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RE: Monet vs. Wicca: Is This the Real Life?
All these votes please Monet. Keep up the support, everyone!
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RE: Monet vs. Wicca: Is This the Real Life?
Stories of the Yuki-Onna, like any tales about well-known ghosts and monsters, are wide and varied, and how she's seen depends largely on the perspective she's viewed with. In some tales, she's a murderous spirit, and those who see her don't live long to talk much about her after. In others, she's creepy, but harmless, so long as you don't do anything to upset her. As for Monet… well, I'll let you decide that for yourself. If you would like to learn more about the Yuki-Onna, or just have an interest in the supernatural in general, here's a link that's sure to stir your imagination a little.
One Piece's own addition to Yuki-Onna lore might be more scientifically minded, so she probably wouldn't want us to take too much heed to ghost stories… but still, for those inclined to a bit of horror, who aren't afraid to consider what may be wandering just out of our view, consider paying some tribute to the mysterious snow lady. Even on a hot summer night, who knows whether or not she's out there, looking for her next victim? Nobody is quite sure on just how to ward off the Yuki-Onna, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to make her happy by casting a vote her way. Just be sure to keep an eye out behind you...
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RE: Monet vs. Wicca: Is This the Real Life?
Monet's more than just a classy snow queen with wings, in a world full of pirates she stands out with a dedicated mind for science. She's an inspiration for all those who dream of pursuing a scientific career. Because, as we all know, mad science is the best science.
Let's take her into the next round, and expand our understanding of the seas around us and the stars above. A vote for Monet is a vote for the future.
And really, who can say no to those glasses? Huh? Not me, that's for sure.
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RE: Monet vs. Wicca: Is This the Real Life?
Voted for Wicca, but props to Kylor for the campaigns for Monet.
@The:
Kylor has swayed me. Monet it is then.
I really liked this
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RE: Monet vs. Wicca: Is This the Real Life?
! A snowy day might be pretty, but snow has a greater importance than just looks. For many creatures, a cold, snowy environment is absolutlely essential to many creatures, and that's just as true in the world of One Piece as it is in our world. Just think of how much more bleak the manga would be without such memorable arctic friends like the ferocious Lapin?
!
! Or the strong, noble Hiking Bear?
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! Or the friendly Penguin?
!Support the wonderful world of snowy wildlife! Vote for Monet, and let it snow!
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RE: Monet vs. Wicca: Is This the Real Life?
Why hello there, undecided voter. Might I have your attention for a moment? Now, our friend Wicca is quite adorable, yes, no doubt about that, and certainly I have nothing against her. But I can tell just from looking, you aren't swayed so easily, you're more discerning than that. A voter of finer tastes, that's what you are. You've got that gleam in your eye, the true mark of one who recognizes top-quality adorable. If I'm right about you, which, let us be honest here, I know I am, would you so kindly direct your gaze right below?
Ah, yes! That's it! There's that gleam I was talking about. I see I'm talking to a true refined voter, no fakers here! Can I, perhaps be so bold as to assume that you aren't so undecided anymore? Go ahead, no need to be shy about it, vote for Monet, who, as I'm sure you agree, is the only choice for a high class individual such as yourself.
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RE: Monet vs. Wicca: Is This the Real Life?
For a moment there I saw a hody jones gender bender
Wh… what? What do you mean? Surely you can't be referring to this pretty face?
Really, how could you even say such a thing about her? Now hurry up and vote for Monet and maybe she won't haunt your dreams tonight.
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RE: Monet vs. Wicca: Is This the Real Life?
Did you know? Each year, in the US alone, over 1 septillion individual ice crystals fall from the sky? For clarification, that's 24 zeroes, or so big a number that my spellcheck doesn't even recognize it! And while it's a myth that each snowflake is completely unique, they all have patterns so complex that light doesn't pass through them, leading to the familiar white appearance. But, of all this snow, there's only one kind that deserves your vote.
Vote for facts, and for snow! Vote Monet!
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RE: Monet vs. Wicca: Is This the Real Life?
Remember, only the good voters who vote Monet get their candy for the day.
Vote for that sweet, sugary fix! Vote Monet!
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RE: Monet vs. Wicca: Is This the Real Life?
Vote for knowledge. Vote for exploration. Vote for pure, delicious, evil. Vote…
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RE: Live Action One Piece Film in Development - FAKE
Ugh, what? REALLY? It's not gonna happen? This is horrible news. Absolute garbage.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I knew this movie was going to be bad. But that's why I was so excited, because it wasn't going to be merely bad, it could have been a beautiful, glorious disaster. I'm talking pure, The Room level gold. And now, just when me and my friend thought that the perfect Bad Movie Night movie was just on the horizon… our dreams are shattered like glass. This day, of all days, has turned out to be utter disaster.
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RE: Round 1.5, Match 1
Well, looks like Caesar's second chance wasn't much of a chance after all… Still, I don't regret putting a vote in for my favorite villain in One Piece, and one of my favorite characters all around. Even when there's no chance of victory, mad science still marches on!
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RE: Chapter 827: Totland
I just hope that people don't assume Big Mom's getting taken down this arc; I honestly don't think I can handle people putting literally one of the 4 most powerful people in the world on the same level as like Enel or Doflamingo.
Exactly. Just like how people were silly enough to think that Doflamingo would be taken down in Dressrosa! Like that could've happened, am I right? He was waaaaaaaay too important of a character to be a… pfft... mere arc villain! Boy am I sure glad that didn't happen. And I am absolutely sure that Big Mom will be the exact same way, and there is absolutely no chance anything will happen otherwise.
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RE: Round 1, Match 11
I voted for Cavendish. The most shoujo character in all of shonen.
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RE: Round 1, Match 10
What's the best way to vote in the 2016 Character tournament?
A vote for Monet is a vote for science!
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RE: Round 1, Match 10
There are many fine contestants in this round, to be sure. No denying that, my hat's off to all of them. But, only one of these characters can truly be considered to be…
…A work of art.
VOTE MONET.
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RE: The Actual Official 2016 APCT Nominations Thread
I'm gonna break from my usual tradition, and nominate a different snow friend this year: Monet.
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RE: Nekomamushi vs. Whitebeard
Oof. Well, this was a tough choice. I really love both characters, and would be more than happy to see either one advance. However, after careful consideration, there can only be one choice.
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RE: Toei Animation 60th year Celebration
So for their big movie celebrating 60 years of being Toei… they decided to be PA Works. Interesting decision, for sure.
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RE: Which Characters Will Die Between Now and the End of the Series?
@Monkey:
How on earth would the fight with Shiryu take place after the climax?? That makes no sense at all.
Not the climax of the whole series, mind you. Just the climax of Zoro's personal character arc. That's different, and it's folly to think that the dramatic peak of every single character's storyline will happen at the same time.
Zoro's character arc has played out pretty near exclusively by means of combat. His development has been seen through his fights, and his climax will be his fight, and so it stands to reason that his denouement will be through combat as well. Because his character is written differently from the others in that regard, his resolutions has different needs than the others as well.
Changing things up is great, unless the change is terrible and doesn't work at all.
Like if Oda were to take out one standard cliche to awkwardly replace it with another cliche storyline, that doesn't fit in line with the story thus far at all, and with a worse character.
Such as relegating the Shiryu duel to after the climax. I mean never even mind that it doesn't work narratively to begin with, this is a whole other level of not working narratively.
Again how does that even make sense?? Did Shiryu fall asleep and miss the final battles of the series? Then gets up and says "Oh shit!", before rushing over to fight Zoro whose currently basking in the calm aftermath of the entire series? Seriously it's just bizarre and senseless to suggest.Yeah, I'll put this on me not wording it correctly. I meant that Zoro vs. Mihawk would be the climax of his own narrative within the wider One Piece story, and Zoro vs. Shiliew would be his resolution, which would take place just before Luffy's climax. Does that make more sense?
Oh and there it is again. The futile attempt to say a revenge plot is cliche, and not a promised honor duel.
Not saying that, but the promised honor duel cliche has been the story that Oda's telling all this time. To take it out and weirdly make it all about vengeance would severely water down Zoro's motivations until this point, which have always been about honoring his promise to a friend.
Being cold blooded murdered by a real bastard, turning Zoro's noble quest to defeat a good man into a darker quest to avenge him and take his title from dirty hands…this is a big payoff. It's just not the one most readers would expect.
This is assuming that Mihawk, as a person, is the most important influence on Zoro's life. Which he isn't. At all.
Not remotely on the same level. Not even close. You want to see Zoro win…in like the sense of watching a Football game.
It's a good natured game and we want to see our boy win the superbowl, the other team are pretty good so it might get close!Yes, except in most Football games the players aren't fighting on behalf of a childhood friend and the stakes don't revolve around the athlete's internal sense of purpose in life. Also in most Football games, the loser doesn't suffer major slash wounds.
Also, you seem to not be aware that you can apply this to basically any sports movie, show, book, anime, what-have-you there is. Unless you want to tell me that none of those have any importance or stakes to them.
Even you don't really believe that lol.
Even if that would be true it would still be in a vacuum. That's it. Those are the maximum stakes! Nothing else is riding on it! Can you explain to me please what sort of plot would ride on the outcome of that, where that duel would actually happened regardless of anything else happening in the larger story. Keeping in mind that all things considered Zoro and Mihawk are on the same side in just about everything.Why not? Zoro and Mihawk are both united in that they're part of a warrior mindset that values strength and honor above all else, and this is a duel for the most sacred title there is for them. You can't seriously think that a battle between them would just be a friendly match followed by drinks. Besides which, from what we can see, Mihawk doesn't have much in the way of values or loyalty outside of combat. These matters would be of highest importance for them, far more than if Zoro was just out for vengeance. Again, which would make the motivation that's been driving him since volume freaking one secondary.
Zoro would have an emotional connection to Shiryu. He's the bastard who killed his mentor figure and idol.
Also so yeah…again I'd love to hear how Zoro and Mihawk would justify an all out life/death duel given even NOW the circumstances in the world would make it counter-productive.Revenge for revenge's sake is not as interesting of a trope. At least, not as interesting as you seem to claim it is, and certainly wouldn't work that well as an abrupt replacement for another one.
As opposed to the stale "honorable duel" fight. I wonder at what point you bunch of pots are going to stop trying to call the kettle black.
And I wonder when you'll stop pretending that tacked-on revenge plotlines are interesting enough to justify the series taking such a huge turn.
Why would I want 2-3 of our main cast to be personally invested on a deeper level with defeating the final villains when they fight them in the final battles? That's a really tough question.
Also why would I appreciate the symbolism of 2-3 avatars of the good side of the older generation being taken out by the evil one of the two groups who will be dueling for defining the new era? No idea.Again, it's really amazing to me that you don't see the central motivations and conflicts that define who these characters are as holding any degree of importance on their own. Luffy's whole purpose as a character is about becoming the King of the Pirates. It's that central goal that's at the heart of the whole series. It's certainly not about revenge or anything like that. Same thing with Zoro.
Now, some plots/character arcs can be driven by vengeance and be compelling, but typically those elements are introduced earlier, and are more central to the overall narrative. What's never worked has been a character going "This has been my dream since I was a child for deeply personal reasons and OH WHOOPS guess it's all about this one dead guy now!!!"
Given the way Oda has developed both the plot and Mihawk? Yes.
Ah. Yes. I see. So clearly what must happen is to take Zoro's motivation to defeat the World's Greatest Swordsman on behalf of the childhood friend who formed a crucial part of his personality, and replace it with a motivation to defeat the World's Greatest Swordsman on behalf of this guy he knew for a while who he was already trying to beat anyway. Seriously, do you even realize that's how you're coming across?
His promise to Kuina started his desire to be the best. Being the best fulfills that. Whether it's beating Guy One or Guy Two. I like though that you've arbitrarily decided it can't coexist with any other motivations and things, this thing that exists mostly as a quiet undertone to Zoro rather than a space filling obsession.
The quiet undertone that just so happened to come up during some of his biggest establishing moments? This isn't just true for Zoro either, the promise to a figure from the past is a major component to every character's arc. And so if it just comes down to fighting Guy One or Guy Two… should it be the guy with more, or less development? Seems like a pretty obvious answer to me.
And what are you saying is the final act? Where we are now?
Depends on how much Oda throws in between now and the actual ending, but once Blackbeard's crew moves from being a looming threat to an actual presence, is what I was referring to.
Also….
Defined by funny hats?? It's sad that Oda can even put the words in Shanks mouth, depict them as scary dangerous chaos mongers, and all but tell us they're the main antagonists. But still people, people supposably accustomed to the style of One Piece, think of them as the goofy villains like they're a more competent Buggy crew or some shit.
Maybe wising up to them as a creepy ominous threat defined by being sinister and sick in the head would help your ability to read the tea leaves a bit more. Because you're going nowhere but dead ends by underestimating them.Indeed, the scary, horrible chaos mongers who get their asses kicked constantly! Like that time they were all defeated from one attack by Magellan, that really cemented them as a group of important individual characters. Oh, how I was quivering in my boots during the scene where Sabo threw Burgess around like a ragdoll! What frightening villains they are.
Like, I know they'll be actually scary and important later, but that still doesn't exclude them from being minibosses. On a level wholly removed from the other miniboss teams, yes, and I actually do really like how they're not just seen as uberbadasses right from the beginning like a lot of shonen manga would do, but it would be tough as of right now to claim that any one of them really holds up as characters right now, certainly not to the same degree as other endgame threats in the series.
Mihawk actually hasn't really been developed much at all. Like you're straight delusional here. Or your confusing the heft his presence has on the story with development. These are different things. Mihawk exists more as a symbol for Zoro, that's really it. His past and motivations are largely all completely unknown. We really only know that he fought with Shanks when they were both younger.
Shiryu for his part doesn't exist in a vacuum and enjoys the collective shared looming menace that the Blackbeard crew offers as their presence on the story. But it wouldn't seem you acknowledge that menace…In terms of personality, loyalties, relations to others, and even some of his history, we've actually seen quite a fair deal from Mihawk, as far as secondary characters go. At least enough for there to be investment in what happens to him. Shiliew may have Blackbeard's status as main villain to go off of, but if he's going to take the place that Mihawk's already been established as holding, he's going to need to define himself outside of just being Teammate B of the Flunky Bunch. And in terms of development, Mihawk already has a headstart.
That he was fucking creepy looking and some sort of violent sociopath that had to be locked away on the death row of level 6 of Impel Down.
He's by far the LEAST goofy of the Blackbeard crew, but somehow the Bleach syndrome affected you here as well I guess.Which is basically enough to solidify him as one part of the wider threat for the final arc. But still not enough to give him a place in the defining moment of Zoro's character arc.
Such as Donflamingo and Kuma showing up to a meeting where neither one was the focus. With Kuma not even doing anything at all.
Or Sengoku also showing up that same meeting, where he memorably complained about bad manners.Those examples do sort of serve to hinder my point, but I'd argue that in the case of Doflamingo at least, there was more established about him there than we've ever seen with Shiliew. Also, in all three of those cases, later scenes with them did a great deal to develop them further. Whereas with Shiliew, every scene with him after Impel Down just established him as the kind of serious one with a sword.
I don't even know which things you're referring to in any part of this.
That the existence of a minor scale, reflective battle does not negate the existence of a bigger dramatic battle that would happen at some point prior.
How does a final battle get sandwiched between anything. The final battles with the BB crew would be the climax OF the climax. The point to where all roads lead, and all stakes by that point rely. It wouldn't be possible for it to be overwhelmed because the plot resolution rests on those fights being won. There wouldn't be anything major after that. Just resolution.
Because after a certain amount of earth-shaking developments happen, the audience needs to breathe so that the next big event still feels like it has importance. If everything that happens is the most important thing in the series, nothing is. To be more specific, if Zoro's climactic moment happens right in between any of the other major things that NEED to happen in that final arc, it'll lose it's impact, because we'll be paying attention to those other big developments more.
Struggling against adversity doesn't get boring. It's the crux of conflict. Without it conflict doesn't really work.
The battles will all be dramatic, they will all be true triumphes. It's not a point of the series for show fights and gag fights or any of that. Oda has to deliver a damn strong tough fight for each Strawhat. Anything else would be a let down.
Fights where Zoro (or whoever) toy with foes work in places like East Blue where we're establishing that the Strawhats are the toughest kids from their neck of the woods. Or places like Fishman Island where we're showing off how far the crew has come in two years.
The absolute final fights? A fight like that? Are you insane?Yes, but struggling against the exact same kind of adversity in the exact same way would get real stale real quick if it's repeated several times in a row. There are only so many ways a "You are stronger than me but I MUST DEFEAT YOU" plot can play out. Villain puts on a strong show of power, hero seems overcome, hero finds motivation to stand back up again, hero defeats villain. If the pattern is repeated wholesale so much, the last one we read won't have the same impact as the first one, because it will be expected. So, while adversity will happen, and the protagonists will rise to meet it, thinking that every single one of these fights will be identical in pacing and type is very, very silly.
Do you not notice how pissed off people tend to get when they feel a fight is a fizzle where one side just wipes the floor with the other after some build up? People HATE it. Even a dingy little who cares character like Hyozou on Fishman Island had people upset when Zoro effortlessly took him out, even if it made some narrative sense. You're extremely mistaken if you think your idea would be popular among anybody for Zoro's final battle against someone way more developed (and sure to be more so) then Hyozou of all characters.
Yeah, but you can't deny that Oda loves to write such scenarios, considering how Zoro hasn't had any kind of fight but that since the New World.
I previously mentioned Zoro wiping the floor with Shiliew as just an example of what Oda could do, but by no means am I set on that idea. I just think it'll be lower in scope than the fight against Mihawk, which I think will also happen.
Zoro being introspective of….??
"Man..am I the best? I am, apparently the best. That's me now."
You're imposing some deepness to this idea that isn't there.
Also this is Zoro here. His fanbase wants to see him get dirty and bloodied and have a crazy fight. Some wispy reflective thing would have people howling for Oda's blood lol.Maybe him trying to find meaning once he's realized he's already surpassed the greatest obstacle he would ever face? That seems like it would be… a kind of big deal for him, doesn't it? This might just be me appealing to my own tastes though, but there's any number of directions Oda could take it.
Just another final boss character from the chaos inducing main villains of the series who those same fans will be hating the shit out of and wanting to see Zoro kick his ass.
There are ways to get readers to hate a character aside from revenge plots. Did you… did you even know that? That more kinds of conflict exist in fiction than just that?
Mihawk exists as a symbol for Zoro.
And Shiliew doesn't. One would be fitting as a conclusion to his character. One wouldn't. Why is this hard?
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RE: Which Characters Will Die Between Now and the End of the Series?
@Monkey:
It would render his last fight weak and boring in comparison.
Not necessarily, if the two battles happen relatively close to each other. For an example of what I mean, just look at any graph charting the progression of conflict in a Hero's Journey narrative. They always peak at the one big climatic event and are then (usually) followed by denouement, after the main conflict has been resolved and the storyline comes to a close. More than any other character in the story, Zoro's growth has always been shown through his battles. His duel against Mihawk would be the big climax of his character, the more thrilling, dynamic moment where he achieves everything he set out to do, leaving his battle with Shiliew to be more low-key and introspective, an examination of just what it was he accomplished. It can have the same degree of importance and emotional impact, just of a different kind. The fights in the series have to be changed up in some way, or else moments that are meant to be groundbreaking are just… dull.
Yeah? So what?
That makes Mihawk vs. Zoro basically a promise to the reader. Other authors can and have played such promises loosely, but Oda's never really been the type of storyteller to do that. When there's such big expectations, there needs to be at least an equal amount of payoff, and .
Why yes, Oda has built up as an honorable likeable chap who even agreed to train Zoro. The fight for the title won't be a bloody death battle where we highly desire to see Zoro win. Good point.
What, and we wouldn't want to see Zoro win if he fights someone we like? Or, for that matter, the fight wouldn't be bloody or intense as hell? No matter what, this battle is going to carry weight beyond just one of them bleeding and falling over, so it's likely that even if Zoro fights Mihawk, the consequences will be on a life-or-death level. But wait, if that's the case, then wouldn't the final moments of the duel be, gasp, more heartbreaking if the fallen opponent is someone Zoro has an emotional connection to?
Fitting if they both died at the same point in the story yeah.
That'll be at least TWO very personal reasons to bring down the BB crew.Even assuming that you're right about this, and the motivations of the two primary characters of this manga are so incredibly that they need to be replaced by a stale "avenge the master" fight… why would you want to see the same scenario play out twice? As in, literally the same conflict, twice in a row? That's more than repetitive, what you're suggesting is just flat-out lazy writing.
You say this as if the BB crew isn't lol.
Blackbeard is. And his crew is full of neat designs and cool concepts that probably will be explored later to some extent, but outside their leader they're still just the Quirky Villain Squad. Important as final obstacles, sure, but as individual characters? Eh.
1. You say this like there's something fresh and original about a showdown between honorable swordsmen that isn't every single bit as cliche as a revenge plot.
2. You for absolutely no reason assume we won't see Shiryu until then. Like Oda's done with him. Obviously not true.
3. That unbeatable sword god is also a friendly guy on essentially the same larger side as our heroes. The only stakes at hand in that duel is Zoro's dream.Again, I ask, is Zoro's dream (the dream that fuels his entire character, I'll remind you) really so weak that it can't fuel a battle on its own? The way I see it, making the fight be about avenging Mihawk rather than surpassing him would only serve to take away from the true meaning of the fight, the promise to Kuina. You know, that thing. Zoro's whole motivation as a character. That's not interesting to you in the slightest? Then why are we even talking about this?
So you really think you can argue like Oda's never developing anything with Shiryu again. That sure is a sturdy ground to operate from!
And do you think that Oda's going to take a huge chunk of time out of the final act of the manga in order to develop a handful of characters that have previously been defined mostly by their funny hats? Some level of development with Shiliew and the others is expected, but at this stage nothing can compare to the development that Mihawk already walked in with. Let's just compare Mihawk's and Shiliew's introductions. When Mihawk first appeared, it was clear immediately that he's a threat, both in what he did and how others responded to him. It was lasting, powerful, and memorable. By comparison, what really stood out about Shiliew when he first appeared? That he has a big funny chin?
For that matter, look at the introductions of any characters that have since become important, or will become important. They may not have always been groundbreaking right away, but they've all had impact, cementing that character as someone for the reader to watch out for, either by doing something impressive, or having a memorable beginning line, or just the build-up to their first appearance. By comparison, if Shiliew's going to mean so much to this manga, his introduction was surprisingly understated. Certainly, nothing we've seen of him is enough to make him a figure of such great significance to Zoro, or anyone.
Yeah that's the same boring awkward logic the other guy made. No that doesn't even remotely cut it compared to making the fight for the title, have it wrapped into the mega finale battles, with a chance to avenge Mihawk.
Sorry!
Main problem here is Zoro is not the underdog in that fight. Instant loss of comparable drama and stakes by a thousand.Sure, but you speak as though if Zoro's final final battle in the series was to defend his title, we just wouldn't get the major duel to be the best, at all. We'd still have the stirring, epic showdown, with everything on the line and the combatants getting sliced to ribbons, it would just happen a bit sooner. There's nothing that says all the dreams of all the crew will be resolved at once, quite the opposite. Getting one fight does not negate the existence of the other.
Actually, that Zoro's final matchup would happen in the ending battle against the Blackbeard Pirates only serves to further my point, just for pacing reasons. If this final battle is sandwiched in between the other major ending events of the story, it would just get overwhelmed among all the bigger achievements and revelations that are going to happen in the climatic arc. Zoro is one of the absolute most important characters in the manga, he deserves his own moment all its own.
That sounds absolutely horrible.
The big serious final series of battles with everything on the line, and Zoro toys with his opponent who is then made to look weak and incompetent.
That's really bad.The word you used I want to focus on here is "series." I think we can assume, at least for now, that every member of the crew is going to get their own individual fights against one of the Blackbeard Pirates. That's, what, nine fights? Most of which will certainly be underdog fights against a seemingly insurmountable opponent. If all these conflicts will play out the exact same way, even the most fervent of readers is likely to get bored around fight #4. Considering that Zoro's fight will likely be among the last in that series, it wouldn't necessarily be so bad to have it be more introspective and personal, to contrast with the rest of them. A quiet interlude before the final explosive setpiece that will be Luffy vs. Blackbeard, if you will.
His fight with Mihawk being set up as far back as the baratie is precisely what makes this scenario so delicious to the people who support it. It would be heartbreaking for Zoro AND the readers if someone else defeated Mihawk, and Zoro's student/mentor relationship with Mihawk will just add fuel to the fire. There are also the small details like Daaz Bones asking Zoro if he plans to become a man who can cut diamond, Mihawk being unable to cut Diamond Jozu at the War of the Best and since this chapter, the BB pirates defeating the remains of the WB pirates. I'm really interested to see where Oda takes this.
Well, you're right that it will be heartbreaking, but it won't be because Zoro and Mihawk were such great pals and "oh how can Zoro live in a world without Mihawk?". It'll be because we, the readers, would be robbed of the cool dramatic duel we've been promised for years, to have it be replaced by a fight against just another secondary boss character. Maybe, maybe if we actually got to see any great amount of Zoro's time with Mihawk, or had a better sense of their relationship, it might mean something if Zoro then had to avenge him, but even if that were the case, revenge still wouldn't be that engaging to justify it.
But, well, it could be that you're right. In fact, hey look, I just found rare footage of Zoro and Shiliew's final epic battle for the title of World's Greatest Swordsman!
And here's a little tip from a pro: if you hit the replay button after it's over, it also shows you Luffy vs. Blackbeard! Glad that's settled.
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RE: Which Characters Will Die Between Now and the End of the Series?
@Monkey:
I think most people who buy into this theory also buy into a kill off of Shanks and many of his crew, as well as Blackbeard being the final villain. Things I certainly all agree on. Given those theories all being related…
People seem to agree that the BB crew taking down Shanks and crew would happened not long before the Strawhats reach Raftel.
And also that the final Blackbeard crew fight would be the very last series of battles in the entire series. So naturally together that means there's some important crunch time between Mihawk going down and Zoro confronting Shiryu for the last duel.
And if it wasn't clear, I think most subscribers to these theories would also agree that Mihawk being taken down would probably take place during the same fight that takes down Shanks and company. The Shanks/Mihawk connection is heavily established by now so it's hardly farfetched.You raise some fair points, and your logic certainly is sound, but I think you might be overlooking a distinct possibility. I do agree that the fight against Blackbeard and friends will be the final conflict in the story, but you might be taking it too much for granted that Zoro's final battle has to be the one where he gains his title. I think there's also a chance that Zoro will fulfill his dream before that point, at least partially. What if, Zoro fights and defeats Mihawk at some point before Raftel, giving us the "fair duel for the title" that's been promised since pretty much day one, and then his battle against Shiliew would be his first battle to defend the title of World's Greatest Swordsman?
Mihawk's been pretty much established as Zoro's ultimate challenge to overcome since the beginning. Remember, Mihawk's more than just a title holder, Oda's built him up as being the absolute pinnacle of everything a swordsman should be. As far back as Baratie, he was the sole indicator of just how far the Straw Hats would eventually need to come. He's Zoro's counterpart to the guy Luffy's been trying to surpass since the first chapter! Not to mention, he's a character that actually holds a degree of importance to the plot. What would be more interesting to read, a climatic battle against someone who's basically an unbeatable sword god, or another standard revenge fight, against that one guy from like three pages in Impel Down? Remember, this should be the absolute high point of Zoro's character arc, and who the opponent is will absolutely have an impact on this. Shiliew just simply doesn't have much going for him, besides just being another villain. Certainly not enough to be to Zoro what Blackbeard's going to be to Luffy.
On the other hand, if Zoro's final final fight in the storyline is used to fully show how far he's come since the first volume, that would mean something, and a great way to do that would be to show that he's not only the best, but he's able to maintain that role against a powerful opponent. Wouldn't that, more than anything else, cement him as a swordsman whose "name will be known in heaven?" Oda might even directly mirror his initial fight against Mihawk by having Zoro toy with Shiliew the same way Mihawk toyed with Zoro when they first faced off. It would be an oversight, I think, to just assume that such a scenario couldn't have as much of an impact, particularly if Oda plays it right.
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RE: One Piece is NOT based on The Mysterious Cities of Gold
Hm. Maybe there's a point to be made here, but probably not quite in the way the original poster intended, and certainly not to the extent of "the entire template of One Piece comes from this one 80's show, you guys." That's wrong, but there's some degree of truth in the general idea. The thing is, Mysterious Cities of Gold was not at all unique to children's anime of the time, particularly in the adventure genre. A LOT of those shows had the same basic look, and utilized similar plot points (treasure exists, go find treasure, also friends are good) though, as far as I'm aware, MCoG was the only one to have that Maya/Inca aesthetic. Nadia, which has already been mentioned, also follows this style, though it came much later, and Laputa can be seen as a sort of extension of that same thing. And it just so happens that those themes clearly rubbed off on OP in a big way. It's not all too likely that a young Oda watched MCoG and thought "yes, this is it, this shall be the template for my manga about punching," but he couldn't have avoided the movement of shows that MCoG was a part of, especially not when OP itself takes elements from them, mostly early on. It should also be said that all of these things, One Piece, MCoG, Laputa in particular, have aspects that can be traced as far back as classic adventure authors like Verne and Robert Louis Stevenson, many of whom became known to Japanese youth through stuff like World Masterpiece Theater and its ilk. And yes, as it's been stated, One Piece's place in that variety of series is heavily diluted by elements from Dragon Ball and modern sensibilities, which are more focused around punching than exploration.
Basically, yes, One Piece and Mysterious Cities of Gold are inspirationally related, but not directly. More like… twice-removed inspiration cousins. Art is funny that way, things tend to have many sources and not all of them are stated or clear at all (we'd basically need to scan Oda's memories in order to find exactly what he drew from what in most cases) but they're still very much there. Actually, if there's interest, it might be kinda worthwhile to reexamine a few of those series, for comparing and contrasting purposes. Maybe nothing major would come up, but it might provide some degree of insight. Or rather, it would be an excuse to watch old adventure anime. I just really wanna do that, honestly.
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RE: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)
Figured as much.
As long as I could convince you that "boobs" wasn't the only reason to possibly back Monet, though, I'm entirely cool with leaving it there.
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RE: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)
You are literally describing Robin. She was willingly aligned with badguys because she chose to work with them, did lots of bad stuff that we know of, including assassination, initially frightened the crew, had a personality completely different from everyone else and did not mingle well, has darker insights and impulses, will fight in underhanded ways, and learned to grow and change after joining the group, in a slow gradual process still taking place 15 years later.
You can't just ignore that she does the dark things by saying "oh, but that's just a joke" or "But she hasn't done it THAT much lately" or "sure she had an entire arc dedicated to escaping her past but it doesn't count"… but then think it would be treated any different with someone else... especially someone else with less series time to grow and change in.
Except in the context of how her actions are portrayed, that doesn't really make her a former villain, as much as it makes her a misunderstood anti-hero. In all the parts dealing with her escaping her past, she was always the victim. It was always external forces that made her do bad things, not her nature. Her character arc was more about trusting others to the extent that she could allow herself to be a good person. I'm talking more about a character who was actually a complete scoundrel from the beginning, and who chooses to make an internal change on her own. What I'm talking about is similar to Robin, yes. But the differences are vital enough to justify a completely different Straw Hat.
She did and is every single thing you want and has supplied all those dynamics already, for FIFTEEN YEARS! Just not as EXTREME as you seem to want. Yes, she always had a good side… she never would have been accepted into the strawhats without it.
But that aspect of her character hasn't been brought up once after Water 7, and was treaded on very lightly in the arcs leading up to it. It barely counts as a part of her character anymore. The ONLY time I can imagine it coming up again is if Vivi ever becomes an important character again, but that's about it.
You're not going to get a second, even darker villain filling the exact same role and character arc at this point, nor would Luffy allow a truly terrible person into his crew. He's a good judge of character, and still had issues with working even briefly with Crocodile (but no qualms at all about Buggy or Mr. 3).
The fact that you brought up how Luffy easily and willingly worked with "Uses his own friends as a shield" Buggy and Mr. "Turns people into wax statues" 3 helps my point a whole lot, actually. Even his interaction with Crocodile is telling on its own. Notice how Luffy's main objection to letting him go free was that Crocodile almost destroyed Vivi's country, and how he only relented after Crocodile explicitly said that he had no interest in that one place in particular. Luffy's sense of morality really only extends to who he happens to be friends with at any given moment… he really is just a pirate at heart, albeit an exceptionally nice one. I can easily imagine him overlooking the past actions of another villain in the same fashion. Bellamy would be another great example. And it's already been stated that Luffy has a talent for bringing out the good in people. So it's not as if there isn't already a precedent for what I'm talking about.
Are you one of the people that seriously wants Perona or Caribou or Ceaser in the crew?
Ceaser has all the same qualities Monet had, and is actually actively with the crew right now. And he's a logia! With an ambitious goal of being best scientist in the world! And he should be on the run for the rest of the series and will lead to conflict with at least two emporers and eventually Vegapunk, all big story stuff we know is coming. But he also definitely poisoned children, shot his own minions, tried to kill people and has no social skills around the others, and is totally iredeemable, and no one on the crew likes him. Does that fit the criteria?
Oh, and he's also a completely silly doof out of his own arc and in Strawhat custody with the attempted escapes and fake mustache and all.
I wasn't going to bring him up, because I already got enough flak for backing Monet, but since you mentioned it… absolutely.
In a lot of ways, Caesar even fits what I was talking about earlier better than Monet did. And it's not completely implausible, either. Think of it this way. Caesar's pretty much completely alone right now. As soon as he sees Luffy and Law strolling into Zou alive, he'll realize that the one person who he believed in more than himself has been defeated. Moreover, it would be very apparent to him that now pretty much every single major power in the world would be after him, and not at all in a good way. Also, it's not like the Straw Hats would be entirely willing to just leave him for the next big villain to pick up and use his science for evil. Both parties have very good reason for wanting him to stay on the boat. Under those circumstances, is it not entirely unfeasible that Caesar would be willing to play along with the Strawhat's sense of goodness for a little while, if only to save himself? (We already know that he's not above playing a role, after all.) More to the point, isn't it possible that, given that he spends enough time with the crew, that their sense of friendship might just rub off on him even a little? Enough to make him seriously question the methods he had used until he met them? Wouldn't that, at least on some level, be interesting to read about?
Even his doofiness works well in his favor. I mean, in the one chapter he's been seen in lately, he's shown more comedic chemistry with the other members of the crew in a few pages than Zoro did in the entirety of Dressrosa. So we know there's plenty of room for fun moments of interaction with him.
And yes, it would be difficult for the other Straw Hats to accept him, particularly at first. But, well, as you seem to be fond of mentioning, we already know of one other character who made a similar transition, and can, even if only superficially, relate to him, and perhaps even have moments where she helps him adjust. I mean, I'll fully admit it's a 5% chance at best. But it's a possibility I still like entertaining.
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RE: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)
Except that time she tried to snap Moria's neck. Or when she broke spines on at least two different ocassions. Or when she beat the crap out of Pell.
Fighting style doesn't mean all that much in the long run, though. Zoro also has a fairly brutal fighting style, and he's mostly heroic. Heck, one of the main staples in Franky's arsenal involves trying to set people on fire, and that's not treated as a big deal. Same with Robin.
And isn't that EXACTLY what you'd want with an evil character joining the goodguys? Development?
Yes, but there's a difference between justifying a character's actions, and actually confronting them with their more negative traits. All of Robin's development was to demonstrate how she really had no other choice, or how it was all for a better purpose anyways. It showed how, really, she was a good person deep down all along. Entirely different from what I'm talking about.
She keeps making morbid observations that mess with the others. Her first observations are often of grisly deaths or ways things could go badly.
That's a character quirk. Not the same thing.
Except for Water 7. Which was a three year arc dedicated almost entirely to just that.
So, after maybe two vaguely villain-like moments before joining the crew, neither of which had any lasting consequences, at all, she takes on a passive supporting role in the crew for a few arcs, does history stuff, and then right afterwards goes into Water 7. It was a major moment of development, yes, and very well done, but not still doesn't paint her as a villain in any sense, at any point in time. It's not like she was exactly grappling with her darker side before then.
Except for Water 7 where she agreed to join CP9, frame the strawhats, and kill Iceburg.
As part of a heroic sacrifice. For her friends. It's a hero moment. And again, she still gets away without ever actually doing anything bad, at least not anything that gets acknowledged as such by any of the other characters.
Yes, that was entirely the point of that three year arc. To free her of that stuff. But it still pops up. Like this chapter she saw a man who had been repeatedly stabbed by swords as her first instinct… and then realized it was a monkey.
Having morbid thoughts is not the same thing as being a villain.
She has done the cute thing joke TWICE in fifteen years. Once with Kuma on thriller bark, or just this week with the dragon drawing.
If you mean "barely in the spotlight at all" you mean "has now had more screentime than Nami, Sanji, Chopper and Brook thanks to the last year", and "is overall more important to the actual central plot than anyone aside from Luffy", or "the one that has connections to the revolutionaries and a bunch of future plot points" I suppose.
In terms of actual character moments, though? She's really just been kept to smiling in the background while other characters do things. If she's really been that important to the plot, it hasn't shown in specific character moments. And certainly not in context with any of her previous experiences or actions.
Not gonna happen in a series like this. Robin and Bartomoleo are as dark as it gets.
NONE of the strawhats talk about their past lives post-flashback. None of them. It's not what they do. But, traits do remain.
I don't know, I think Oda can manage it. He's made some fairly dark subject matter work in a shonen context before. I have full confidence that he'd be able to make a more evil-aligned character fit within the crew, and have that work without changing the tone too much.
Really though, was Robin ever really a villain to begin with? If anything, she only acted as a helper to the real antagonist, and a fairly dubious one at that. Remember that, before Alabasta even reached its climax, Robin had put herself at risk to betray Crocodile for heroic reasons, with no one else prompting her to do so, and was recognized as sympathetic by Luffy. Which brings me to my first point. I want a character who starts out as being really, genuinely, evil at first, and is able to carry over some of the traits that made them villain into their new identity as a Straw Hat.
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RE: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)
You literally just described Robin exactly in every single way. You've just had 15 years and Water 7 to get used to the her.
Kinda. Except, Robin pretty much right away as soon as she got any development, and she was incredibly passive as a character until then, had that "I was doing it for history and wasn't really evil" excuse to fall back on. We didn't get to really examine what kind of person she was as an assassin, or the true depths of her outlook. In fact, all the development she got was basically to justify her previous actions. There was no scenes where she's having a good time with her friends and then suddenly remembers that one time she was totally okay with Crocodile dropping a bomb on innocent people. There are no scenes after she joins the crew where she finds herself, on instinct, about to do something cruel and terrible because that's what she was used to doing most of her life. That's just never brought up, ever. Any villain aspect of her character was dropped like… mid-Alabasta. If any of what you talked about remained afterwards, it was gone completely by Water 7. After that, she's barely in the spotlight at all, and when she is, it's either for exposition or for a Cute Thing joke.
Don't get me wrong, I really like Robin's character, and I'm mostly happy with her development... but it's not the same as what I'm talking about. I'd like to see Oda take the few darker shades we got from her very early characterization, and go even further with it.