Posts made by K. Kira XXIII

@Robby:

We got the 9 shadows thing when the samurai attacked Kaidou a year ago. Yeah Oda didn't showcase it very well but we already had that moment, and the anime reinforced it, not sure why folks are holding onto that one.

You answered it yourself. But, besides that point, much like with Mango and Law remembering Cora's words about "the enemies of God", while he watched Luffy put him through the floor. I was inclined to think that something much bigger like a prophecy being fulfilled would be repeated in the last punch to give the whole thing more emphasis. And, with the talk about the dawn, why not go ALL IN, and have the dawn and the prophecy being fulfilled be in synch and watched by everyone.

On, is Kaido down?:

As someone said, the basics have been covered for him to be defeated. But, I am mostly wondering, if Oda has been constantly telling us about "the return of Joy Boy", through the elephant, Kaido's propehcy, etc. Why tone it down at the end? Meaning, why not have the citizens watch Toki's prophecy being fulfilled, along others? I imagine that the prophecy being told again while Kaido is down, and the 9 shadows, and the dawn. We already went past the territory of being subtle.

At the same time, for Kaido to get up once last time, I cannot imagine this lasting more than 2 more chapters. Next chapter, citizens notice Onigashima and the dragon, and think it is Kaido. Momo transforms and says he is, Momo. Declares Kaido has been beaten, Kaido re-emerges, 9 shadows stand before him, one last chapter with the prophecy + final attack by all 9 individuals, while the citizens D:.

I re-read the first two parts when part 3 was announced, really entertaining. I like webtoons, so not bothered by the change. Hopefully they use this new format in some creative ways. I could imagine the bike dragging scene working well.

There are early translations for both 716 and 717.

@Ivotas:

So when you say Riboku lost you are referring to him failing at wiping them out only? If that's the case it works well enough for me.

Yes. At least for now. Again, just to clarify, I have no spoilers on the events to unfold, even if I do guess some stuff right. Of course, they could lose worse, or achieve almost an entire wipe out. But as I predicted at Gyou…there are a lot of general heads in the Zhao side ready to roll.

I know that with Xin being the protagonists it is likely that they will come out victorious at the end. But it's not unheard of that even in manga the protagonists side takes a huge loss (we don't even need to look further than One Piece). And since Kingdom is based on supposedly historic events I always approach this series with a "Xin cannot win every single campaign we are witnessing" kind of mindset. So I'm very sensetive to a "and he still lost in the end" kind of statement.

Yeah, I know very few history spoilers, but nothing that you could not deduce from reading the manga. I try my best to respect people's reads in terms of spoilers and what not. Just yesterday I was about to write about 716 in spoilers tags, but chose to wait until we got a better translated release.

So, what I am about to write is speculation. Same way I speculated in the battle of Gyou that some Zhao generals would die because that's an easy way for the protagonists to rank up to generals. I was also saying that the Gyou campaign was probably the only chance the Buffon (Houken) had to kill Shin as the latter was still getting used to Ou Ki's glaive.

Just going to write some thought I have:

• Currently, Zhao is going for a huge play. They have assembled the armies of the north for this purpose, and as it was stated in 715, the north considers Ri Boku king. However, this is a double edge sword, because if Qin somehow manage to not only survive but cripple the Zhao army, this pretty much weakens Zhao's north strength and makes it easier to capture that region.

• We have Ou Sen withholding sending reinforcements, I wouldn't be surprised if Hara… I mean Ou Sen has deduced what sort of ploy Ri Boku had planned. He could come with his entire army, or send his army elsewhere.

• So we know that Zhao will not be able to completely wipe out the current army, but what can they achieve? Something has to be gained. As a reminder, Ri Boku has stated that he knows Kan Ki's weakness. I could see the latter's defeat as part of this current fight.

• After this campaign, I cannot imagine Shin not starting to use Duke Hyou's shield. All the way from chapter one, we see that an army is calling for "General Ri Shin". This person has a glaive and armor. The chapter when Shin gets his full name was such a great detail and throwback to that scene. I also imagine that once Shin and Ri Boku fight each other, the former might wear the weapons (glaive and shield) of his mentors that were killed by Ri Boku. Although, I could see the final blow being delivered by the Hyou's sword as Shin cements himself as Ei Sei's sword and overcomes the biggest obstacle to unify China. There are a lot of symbolism to be had, we'll see what happens.

Just to be safe: I DO NOT HAVE SPOILERS, these are just random thoughts.

@Ivotas:

A stalemate or a loss without being wiped out was still something that deemed possible before your comment pretty much erased that possibility. In other words a spoiler.

Nah, you are overthinking it. I do not have spoilers on how this concludes. There is a shitty translation for 716, but that is a far as it goes.

And the comment was towards the fact that they will not be wiped out, which is the goal. We are laughing at that in specific and saying it is a lose for Zhao, even what you are suggesting (stalemate, loss without wiping them out). They had 6 months to plan this, they have double their numbers, they have prepared the "worst case scenario" for Qin. Them not achieving that, is the loss.

@Ivotas:

Thanks for the spoiler

It's not really a spoiler. Unless you are imagining that they will manage to wipe out Shin and the rest of the main cast.

A friend mentioned: "To think that even with all this Ri Boku lost" it made me laugh at the failures he keeps piling up.

At this point, it's not about what could be or what not. Elemental powers, bla bla bla. People want to see it explicitly stated.

The reason why people question if Kaido is awakened or not is because Momo, whom apparently has a clone of Kaido's fruit, has looked like a dragon while he was a child and an adult now.

@electricmastro:

What I meant, at least, is that I'd go on how it has been abolished in certain areas through history, but I'll just leave it at there then.

Exactly, even in your half response, it makes the point I am making more evident. "Certain areas through history". What Luffy will accomplish is breaking the more evident forms of slavery, it will be a big deal, and a big step forward towards Jimbe's goal.

Like Jimbe is not going to say: I want to better these relationships by 45-60%. He wants to stand as equals, it is comparable to Chopper's "cure all diseases". Both dreams will have symbolic milestones, but these goals are ever growing. Many stories that share similarities in this regards have the sequels usually have characters disillusioned by how some things never change. Some people are shitty through their upbringing and that's that. I mean, even Oda has already touched upon this during Fishman Island when the big revelations for Hody was: "Nothing, I just hate them." It is this nature that will be forever there. Even as a small minority, but sometimes not even that small.

So yeah, Jimbe's dream is unrealistic, but extremely noble and commendable that he is actually working towards it. Calling it unrealistic also doesn't mean you are 'making fun of someone'. That's an unusual tangent to go on.

Slavery hasn't been stopped in real life.

Which is why Jimbe's dream is unrealistic, in a good way. It is very noble, as he believes that Luffy's actions will influence the rest of the world to be better. And some will, others will forget. There are, already, some friendly relationships between humans and Fishmen. Jimbe is too much of a good guy, but we love him for it.

Jajajajaja Jimbe has probably the most ambitious and unrealistic one.

Also jaja at the idea of Jimbe being sidelined but ignoring his cover story during that time, he even found a poneglyph.

I am, by no means defending that, as you can see in that same post. My comment was more on how they actually are employing them but are making little to no difference whatsoever, which is kinda disappointing once you remember that Na Ki's troop is specialized in scouting.

Finished the anime adaption of the coalition arc, and then did a somewhat speed run of what came next until the current chapter. Also restarted the anime from episode 1. Overall it has been fun, with some amazing highlights, but some other whatever moments. Mostly around Hou Ken (glad he is dead), Ou Sen and Ri Boku. Although, I find the latter to be worse on their greatness. For example, killing big lips Ma Kou. The reason given as to why this was an amazing tactic is: "because it's Ri Boku." I'm not even kidding the conversation goes:

some general: I'll do that attack, you(Ri Boku) should stay in HQ as high commander.
other general: Pfff nah man, this isn't just some type of flank, this is special, this a "Ri Boku flank"
some general: Bu…
other general: Ri Boku has been doing this for years and killed many generals with it, just trust the Ri Boku flank, buddy.

[hide]


[/hide]

"Basically, don't concern yourself with the details" Highlights the problem beautifully.

@Ivotas:

At least it gives us Heki a taking an absolute victory with zero casualties.:ninja:

Look at that, the castle was empty.

@KageKageKing:

Chapter is out. https://sensescans.com/reader/read/kingdom/en/66/714/page/1

! Come oooon, he is just pulling what Sei did in Sai.

Maybe the same action, but there was a clear difference on the type of morale boost.

@Razh:

Feel like a fool for expecting a plot more intricate from Riboku. Fog of war + mass recruit = win.

Qin was like, let's just attack to move the plot forward, whatever. Although in the end they did have to attack in order to get things going, since there would be no gain in staying back. Just wish they EMPLOYED SCOUTS FOR ONCE.

Well at least it's exciting, can't argue that really. :happy:

Having freshly read, they do employ scouts, but I think the author would benefit on showing more maps when mentioning them, so we can gauge better the tactical approach. I think Kingdom is at its best when it has those high angled camera views of the armies + terrain, formations.

@Ivotas:

Qin should just go "welp, the government of Zhao clearly hasn't fled here yet, so let's go back south and slay everyone". :ninja:

Ou Sen might do that. He withheld sending troops for reinforcements.

–--

I've been thinking about going back through the manga and making a highlight folder. Okay, I lie, I just want to see general En's growth from messenger to a man of DUTY.

Let's see if we finally get pay off about Kan Ki's weakness.

Yeah, adding Yamato to Act I would only enhance their presence. Make the game the Tobi poop were going to play be the main theme of act 1.

Have Yamato hear about the "ghosts" spotted near Oden's castle. Yamato thinks about the prophecy goes to check it out. That makes Kaido's drunken appearance make more sense, and we can have a reaction of Yamato seeing the destruction of Oden's castle, play with their feeling about not being able to help Momo when they were younger, and how things "have not changed". Luffy shows up, Yamato thinks about Ace.

I get what you are saying, I just think that they want to emphasize that possibility. The difference might be small, but enough to warrant caution.

A few pages back we were talking about exaggeration. While I agree that the overall situation is the same, regardless of whom takes down the castle, they want to bet in that small possibility making a difference.

We also can say that whomever takes the castle makes a difference because of the clear contrast between Shin capturing troops and Kanki, but mostly on the reception of the people surrendering to them.

But, more than anything else, I think it is the exaggeration of "seeing the person you hate across the room" vs "Who the fuck is this Heki-bro?"

Quoting to better break down my reply.

@Ivotas:

But in Atsuyo it was not just the suicide squad that went straight for Kanki. The Ousen army had big problems because of the hate for Kanki too.

Exactly, which is why I say, Zhao currently hates Qin as a whole. But the thing I wanted to point out is that Zhao used soldiers that were personally affected by Kanki's massacre to employ this tactic. And I think that the fact that the Zhao soldiers could see Kanki's flag while the siege was occurring simply fueled that hatred even more so they could throw themselves out.

Remember how Denrimi's ladder strategy didn't really make a progress thanks to the Atsuyo soldiers suicide dives? The entire reason why the Ousen army has three times more losses than calculated is because the soldiers hated Kanki. The only difference between the guys on the wall and those going for Kanki is that the former were just used as fodder to slow Denrimi's attack down while the ladder were the elites who had a chance to actually kill Kanki. But in terms of they felt there's nothing that indicates that there was any difference between the two.

You are right, the suicidal soldiers and the elite forces had nothing that separated them in terms of their hatred for Kanki. Both forces were willing to die to get the job done, and I think that went double because they could see Kanki outside.

So jumping to the current predicament:

The soldiers stationed at Sekirei could turn to be a dangerous force and would become unpredictable (like commit suicide) if they saw Kanki's army ready to siege them. The thoughts of what could happen to them if they lost could make them desperate.

On the other hand, another army would still incur Zhao's wrath, but they might not try any desperate moves or tactics.

It is exactly the latter. Ten's context for me is: "The Zhao hates us for the massacre, but if the Kanki army is put in front of them they will get even worse".

In Atsuyo, they could see the Kanki army from the castle top. They even tried to kill him with a suicide squad. So yeah, it was just an excuse to not send Kanki.

The castle is empty, this will make Heki retreat, genius.

@cipy:

I don't know why but since the Gorosei mentioned the misteryous DF, I keep thinking at Brook DF. A fruit that can connect you with the underworld can be very powerful is awakened.

Interesting choice, but why does CP-0 need to kill Luffy because of the battle that is happening with Kaido now?

@electricmastro:

Chopper’s Fruit is prob the most out of nowhere interesting choice I could convincingly see be expanded on, especially in light of the human Buddha and monk fruits, and Usopp saying “ I don’t think Blackbeard would want you human fruit.”

I also thought about that scene in Fishman Island. But, why the need to kill Luffy and not Chopper, Brooke or Tama?

On the other hand if they fear Kaido's fruit awakening it makes sense because they have failed to kill Kaido before. So the only way to prevent this happening in battle would be by killing Luffy.

Although that puts into question, what are the conditions needed to awaken your devil fruit? That only now is there a chance for Kaido to awaken.

However, if we go back to when CP-0 randomly talked about Vegapunk's failed fruit and how "glad they were because it was a failure". A reason to think about that fruit now without being prompted would be because Momo's fruit is a clone of Kaido's. CP-0 was glad that it had failed because that could mean two different entities which the Elders Stars could be worried about awakening.

Obviously not, especially when passing through a cliff side. This could only get worse if Ousen, also predicted this. It looses its charm when it becomes the crutch to these battles. Because obviously the author has free control of these events.

You mention awakening as being lame. How about, let's beat this tactic by…moving forward.

Intrigued about what Raizou's preparation is?

Orochi is about to die, again. Which death was better? I find you could have done so much more with the motif of trying to pretend to be the last samurai. His cowardice. Although this last event seems underwhelming as it was an accident.

Izo did a damn good job against the CP0 agents, and now we will see Drake having his revenge.

Law saying he is done, but we know better. I like the flashback with Big Mom, I am pretty sure we will still see her coming back in a future arc. I absolutely love how some things never change. Like Luffy’s reaction to anyone claiming to become the pirate king or getting one piece. As soon as Kaido says that, his expression changes, he goes full into attack mode.

I'd imagine that with the implementation of conqueror's haki, that Luffy's 'King' series would get an added oumpf. I do hope to see Luffy going from a different version of gear fourth to another and we see Luffy comboing Kaido while switching forms, with Tankman allowing him to keep going through Kaido's attacks.

In terms of which fruit the government is worried about. It would be a shame if it is the rubber fruit, but there aren't many other options that lead to the conclusion of killing Luffy on the spot.

So, which fruit, why kill Luffy? The reason I do not like it being the rubber fruit is because unless they bring an excuse about how, even though Luffy was becoming infamous they ignored the fruit user because he was still “too weak to make a difference”. It just brings to question why not target Luffy before? Like did they fall for their own switch in the naming of the fruit? What happened?

Because if it is Luffy’s fruit, then you could revisit previous arcs to emphasize this even more. Like, make it a talking point during Water 7, with Lucci referencing Who Who. CP9’s targets could have been Robin, Iceburg and Luffy.

Something to keep in mind is, why rename the fruit? Most likely, so whoever eats it does not grasp the entire scope of abilities the fruit could have. But the renaming has to be similar enough that the user believes the naming is adequate. For example: Switching the fire fruit to be called water fruit. Once the user unlocks their abilities they will notice something is wrong. Not to mention, this whole plot point has to resolve with the order to kill Luffy. Because of this, I will go through some of the options presented by posters, but ultimately the options for me amount to two people. Now for the list of devil fruits:

For Luffy’s fruit, well, what would the new name be? What abilities that are similar to rubber would Oda want to unlock?

Kaido’s. We have never been confirmed if Kaido is awakened. We also confirmed that Momo’s fruit, although a failed fruit, pretty much seems to be a clone of Kaido’s. Not to mention the government has already tried killing Kaido many times in the past. They know, they cannot do it. Because they couldn’t kill Kaido and retrieve the fruit the natural way. They could have tried to clone it instead.

We also have the naming of the fruit. Because of the developments where the Straw Hats against all odds are winning against two emperors, there is a chance that Kaido’s fruit finally awakens in battle. This could be symbolic in the sense of Kaido getting his “final epic battle”. So what do you do? Try to kill Luffy, the one that may achieve the impossible.

These last candidates do not make the cut:

Zunesha: The Elders Stars did talk about renaming a fruit as soon as Zunesha appeared. And now we know Zunesha was Joy Boy’s companion. However, what is the name of Zunesha’s fruit, if any?

Tama’s: For starters this would be weird because her fruit has not even been mentioned in the story. Or am I wrong? Tama’s fruit being a plot point moving forward, although interesting, would feel out of place. But sure, it was a fruit no one knew about because it was in Wano (closed borders), it is powerful if it also involves animals like Zunesha or sea kings. But again, because I have not seen the name in-story, the Elders Stars talking about renaming the fruit leads to the implication that we as readers already know the name of the fruit.

Chopper’s: Disqualified because the order does not involve him. Ignoring that fact, well, considering devil fruits have mythical figures like Buddah, or phoenix, etc. Maybe the human human fruit is not really that, but involves the fruit being someone in specific. Jesus would be a bit funny, but with the entire premise of cloning, could Chopper’s fruit be the Joy Boy fruit? Cringe. Joy Boy maybe was a giant(awakening), bla bla. Anyways, again, not an option because of the kill order. In terms of timing, the government did believe Chopper was a pet for the longest time until Wano where everyone saw monster point.

Something as Cobra and Vivi were going to be assassinated and Sabo saved them and it is being framed as Sabo tried to kill them and kidnapped them.

Seems like a decent spot. You are supposed to learn about the road poneglyphs and Raftel there. So the character that lived there would be involved in the void century, poneglyphs part of the story. Or one of the erased races.

@Shiebs:

If someone doesn’t join this arc I wonder when the next character to join will appear? we probably only have a few islands left until Raftel, so maybe Elbaf?

Roadstar, the final island the log pose points to.

@Zik:

Well I think Dragon doesn't want countries secretly aligned with him to blow their cover before he is ready to start the war.

So it'd be a major concern if a bunch of countries just preemptively announce something that'll cause the marines to move ahead of them.

I agree with most of this but Dragon has declared war on the WG as a revolutionary. He still hasn't initiated a world war on the rest of the corrupt countries against him. He's been going overthrowing one country at a time. Not one big war.

I still feel its just more strategic for a country not to openly announce this yet. Would do more bad than good in the short term.

I think the starting point is soon and the moment of secrecy is over. I took their declaration akin to Sogeking shooting down the world government flag. The war against the 170 nations has started. This also is a good moment to do so, the WG has abolished the warlord system, in favor of this new invention, this change in power will create chaos. I bet the government would have a hard time dealing with many of their nations declaring their allegiance to the revolutionaries.

For example: The revolutionaries allying with Wano could be the signal for the countries to start their individual uprising.

I'm still open to w/e Im actually intends to do with those 4 ppl and what a cleanse might entail.

You could be right about a simple repeat of what went down during the void century. Could be slightly different.

I tend to think more about what Doflamingo said to Tsuru after he lost. The several moving variables, letting go of the reins, he seemed to hint this isn't just coming down to one group or one big name.

I think there are several groups already: The 4 people on those pictures and their associates and the revolutionaries. I guess you could also say there is Kaido, Big Mom, Shanks. Although they are less troublesome than the 4 pictured ones.

And Sword doesn't seem to be involved with CP0. CP0's interests are the Celestial Dragons -> Elder Stars -> Im.

@Zik:

That would guarantee WG/marine conflict.

I think at this point of the story that is a minor concern. The WG/marines will be a major part of the upcoming conflict. And, at least to me, opening Wano's borders is the start of the path towards the fated final war. So setting pieces towards that would help develop that plotline.

Even if they were going to be at a conflict, Wano would have the revolutionary army's backing, so the WG would need to account for both armies.

I always thought Dragon was keeping his plan and mission on the low. Are there any countries openly allied with the revolutionaries.

I figured when he was ready to go war a bunch of nations the WG thought were on their side would reveal they're not and sabotage or sneak attack the WG.

The thing is, Dragon already declared war on the WG. So that has been set in motion already. We did see the gist of how the revolutionaries recruit islands. Which are mostly affected by their inability to pay the heavenly tax. Inability or unwillingness. Whichever it may be, the point is there is a precedence and a different route to opening Wano to the world besides the WG affiliation.

@Rean:

We were told explicitly that the representatives of the nations voted on it, if no doubt was placed on that via Oda himself, then I personally wouldn't doubt how it actually passed. The Gorosei seem to be more involved in the day-to-day running of the WG, and are the ones who command the Marines, which are effectively the OP world's police and military rolled into one. Not to mention the various CP agencies.

What's interesting is that they seem to have been quite upset at Cobra during the Reverie, and the Warlord cancellation could have been part of that.

You are right. Re-read the chapter to refresh my memory. I think it is interesting they do not participate on the vote. What if the nations vote on something that could lead away from the status quo. I guess CP9/0 take care of problematic elements. I guess it is not clear if they vote or not.

I personally think that the only real targets of the cleanse are LUffy and Blackbeard, two D Clan members that have gained serious momentum and power during and since the timeskip. Maybe Vivi.

The reason for that is because of what Im did with the 4 posters he had:

• Luffy and BB's posters are torn, hinting that he wants to erase them from history.
• Shirahoshi's picture was pinned to the ground using a blade, hintign that he wants to capture the ancient weapon Poseidon.
• He held Vivi's picture while in deep thought, hinting that he was undecided on what to do with her.

When the Elder Stars talked about a great cleanse, it translated to me they want to redo the event that caused the Void Century. The world is starting to become chaos, pirates are close to finding Joy Boy's message, time to reset things.

Im's targets are people that cannot survive the reset. These people are key elements to breaking the balance the WG want to maintain. I guess the argument could be made of: why isn't Robin there? And I think it is because she is part of the threat already involved with Luffy.

@Rean:

Wasn't it already stated that the Warlord Abolishing was mainly because Riku and Nefertari Cobra made a proposal that was backed by Fujitora, that and the emergence of SSG as a capable replacement?

You are even calling it a proposal. We also do not know how voting works, how involved the Elder Stars are.

I don't think Im had much to do with that, if anything, that's the kind of thing that plays into his hands, given how it reinforces how "democratic" the world government is.

What do you think would happen if Im made a decision that went against the Reverie's decisions?

Basically, the decisions made at the Reverie are ultimately defined by Im's desires. We know that there is a cleanse Im and the Elder Stars are planning. Abolishing the warlord system could very well be within the cleansing plan.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Wano joining the revolutionary army is also an option for opening its borders. In terms of goals moving forward (Void Century, Final War) it makes more sense they would join them.

The conflict is that they want to capture Robin as well.

I thought that the whole Reverie was implied to be a sham with Im sitting on the not so empty throne. Abolishing the warlord system may be part of the cleanse they are doing. So by giving the affiliated countries a sense of control, they are less likely to revolt until it is too late.

I am going to revisit this theory, highlighting and adding images to what has happened since. Leaving a quote from the original post. I wrote this around the time Kaido was telling Kidd that they were playing pirate games. (Chapter 824)

@K.:

…

-Luffy defeats Big Mom and Kaido (whatever the order, it doesn't matter, it will be world shaking news - just looking at the consequences of defeating Doffy)

Big News Morgans classifies this as a defeat for Big Mom and a win for Luffy, declaring him an upcoming emperor.

[hide][/hide]

-Blackbeard is also going for One Piece(REALLY?!). He knows Kaido and Big Mom had two of the road poneglyph and believes that Luffy will disrupt the balance, we know he likes to steal, so he decides to launch an attack against Luffy.

These are the instances where Blackbeard appears. To me Teach took lots of effort to get where he is now. Years of planning, betraying Whitebeard, 2 years to be considered an emperor by taking territories and defeating Marco. On the other hand, Luffy 'merely escapes' Big Mom's territory and he is called the same. Blackbeard is the type of opportunistic person to take advantage of the situation.

[hide][/hide]

-A way this could come up, after everyone is tired of defeating Kaido(some people say he isn't going to be defeated in Wano, which would go better with this little scenario - I believe he will be defeated in Wano), and we all think there will be a big party. BAM Blackbeard shows up ready to be an asshole. There is no way they can fight against them after such a fight, so there will be a sacrifice: Marco, as the leader of the Whitebeard pirates, he has a vendetta against BB, a "duty" to protect Ace's brother and also adding Marco and Luffy's stronger friendship after their fight with Kaido.

I can image a double spread of Marco saying: Teach, you want to become the Pirate King, but that will not happen, the man who'll become pirate king will be Luffy!. Everyone escapes, Teach gets a new fruit (and if he can use three, that'd be insane Darkness quaking Phoenix…jajaja what a fanfiction I just made - there are theories about the three devil fruits, I'm still skeptical, but that Jolly Roger is definitely a curiosity.), Luffy has more reasons to go against BB, and this does not deny Blackbeard killing Shanks which could happen after this encounter, and will go along with the fact the Luffy loses the first couple of rounds against a main villain.[/fanfic]

Midway through it seemed that Marco was not going to make it, with the message and Weevil. But he is here now. It lives! I also like the comments he has about the Straw Hats.

[hide][/hide]

Basing my idea from the quote above, I was thinking that we know some of Blackbeards concrete objectives. He wants to collect devil fruit powers. I think the war between Luffy and Kaido will be big enough that Blackbeard (whom would also know where Wano is during his WB era) will storm the battefield. Now, I think he is going to particularly crash the celebration party after Kaido's defeat, why? Because everyone will be exhausted and it would just be easy pickings from there. I think that this will add onto the direct tension between the Strawhats and the Blackbeard pirates. Also this is where Marco's fruit will be stolen, potentially Jozu's if he wasn't already defeated, and all the artificial devil fruit users (if he can steal those as well, we might find he can't). Luffy and company will have to escape, and Momo could again be homeless, and he might stay with the minks until the final war. This could also be seen as Luffy's failure.

After reading the newspaper, Blackbeard says they should claim the prize before the navy. This is also a reaction to the warlord system being abolished. Currently we are seeing CP0 going towards Wano. This would also be a sweet payback for interrupting their raid on Baltigo. I would just love to see the Blackbeard pirates arriving and mocking the alliance’s effort. The prize being not only taking Wano but uncovering its secrets.

The alliance will escape, maybe even using Momo’s power to evacuate everyone on Onigashima.

Now, after this I think the Strawhats are going to flee towards Elbaf, or maybe another island.

Regardles they are going to meet Shanks and his crew. For the sake of this theory, I will assume that the warlord system has been abolished and Mihawk has decided to stay with Shanks for now. Everyone gets their final mentoring arc.

Warlord system has been abolished. Wherever Luffy escapes to, Ace’s grave location, Elbaf, Roadstar, Shanks will help Luffy come to terms with not liberating Wano, but having defeated Kaido nonetheless as an accomplishment. He has mentioned that they should be meeting soon, and after beating Kaido he would be a 'great pirate'.

[hide][/hide]

The rest of part 2 is too far into the future and things will probably change. So I will leave it at that. In terms of Blackbeard coming to Wano, I think the pieces are there for it to work. There is also that comment about the 'real boss of Wano'. However, Blackbeard's objective could be something else, a misdirection by showing us his movements in parallel to the events of Wano. Although, Moria is with him now, whom is also tied to the history of Wano and Kaido.

"Say my name, say my name,
When everybody is around you,
Say Yamato,
Stop playing games.

Say my name, say my name,
You acting kinda shady,
By giving me a nickname
When will it change?"

@Vongola_Boss_XI:

I don't think that would be narratively satisfying and it's a bold assumption when we don't know what Uranus is at this point in time. But I would guess the Ancient Weapons are three pieces meant to work together. I don't think 'one gets each' would work.

Besides the fact that Luffy is already allied with one of them. And we know the other one is a warship. I think Blackbeard should get Pluton. The government already should poses Uranus, which helped them acquire power.

Blackbeard wants to replace Im on the empty throne.
Im wants to keep sitting on it.
Luffy will probably want to destroy it.

With 3 ancient weapons to be displayed, I cannot see the final war not being a 3 way fight.

@DarthAsthma:

I glanced over and I've seen the Blackbeard angle before and at earlier times in this arc I would have thought yeah plausible but I think we're way past that right now. Structurally the trajectory of this arc is heading towards the celebration there will be some atypical melancholy for the few main story relevant lives lost like Yasue but in general anything that would dilute the party scene with a huge asterisk I don't see it happening. Like if that really was going to be the case to me Oda wouldn't have given the promise of that party in that way and more importantly he wouldn't have centered so many character storylines around Wano restoring its freedom and loyalty to the Kozuki line.
Blackbeard crashing the party would be a very abrupt end to things and would massively clash with any party mood. The other way of it extending the fight would be even worse cause that would mean Wano length would extend even more which seems so structurally unhealthy right now.

To add I def feel like I have generally very basic and boring takes on Oda very much based on what I perceive to be his preferences over the last 1000 chapters.

I'll be adding manga images to update the original post.

But two things to highlight:

Blackbeard said they should get "it" before the WG.
The WG not the marines (contrast because the marines are generally more ignorant about the secrets of the world/ Wano's importance to the Void Century.) are heading to Wano.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Not to mention that Oda also highlighted that Momo is important moving forward, and losing Wano would be a huge bummer. But Oda can angle it as: the people of Wano is what makes Wano.

Of course, no one will be in the mood to party, until the party man himself shows up to remind Luffy that beating Kaido is a huge step towards his dream. That would be Shanks.

@DarthAsthma:

I don't quite follow on that because this is literally a built up event over 10 years and people expect it to culminate in a defeat? I'm just so very doubtful. In no shape or form does Wano follow any of the signs that Sabaody and Marineford fell into. With EL and Thriller Bark pushing Luffy beyond his limits and Sabaody and Marineford being the big red flags of you're not ready.
When you look at the leadup to Wano it's consistently Luffy mastering skills to get ready, he is consistently proclaiming to be ready to challenge everyone in his way to pirate king(no hesistation to go for Kaido since Punk Hazard, no fear challenging Fujitora, etc).
Beyond that Luffy this arc has already gone through 2 major power ups. Advanced COA and COC infusion.
I don't know for me everything points towards this leading to a triumph that will shake the world. Luffy having to run and the WG taking over Wano goes so against that I'm like 80% sure that won't happen.

As for the party will still happen? In what way if they have to run away. That's not a mood to have a party in. We're talking about the author that specifically didn't kill characters in the past to make the parties at the end have the gloom hanging over them.

I will elaborate further after the chapter drops, but Luffy can defeat Kaido and have that culmination, but fail to liberate Wano. I do not think it will be the WG. As there is someone ready to pay them back from their interference in Baltigo.

I'll be elaborating on this post from 2016:

@QUOTE=K.:

…

@DarthAsthma:

Kinda disagree with that because that outcome will kind of kill the promise of the party for which they delayed the Jinbe toast.
That said on paper it seems like a feasible thing that could happen and a promise delayed is a kind of subversion that I find somewhat easier to swallow than some of the stuff other people suggested like Oden actually having survived months back. So while I disagree with it I do think it's within the realm of realistic possibilities.
But for now I just very strongly believe in that Oda is going to follow through in usual fashion and we're going to get that party in the end.
The way the festival has been introduced, all the little nods of the old guard changing for the new, what this victory for Luffy will mean to the world, etc it just would strike me as a very untypical Oda to end this big arc he's build up for so many years in a capitulation of Wano to the government and not a huge victory for Luffy and a celebratory closer on their victory.

This can also be a good opportunity for having Luffy lose big, second defeat since the split. The party will still happen.

The hierarchy doesn't matter. He is also Captain Usopp! No, wait: GOD USOPP!

I mean if he gets 8000 of his own, then amazing.

@Zik:

I don't agree since the main guys pledged their loyalty to Luffy not Usopp.

They follow both.

Not anymore arbitrary than collecting 5600 first and then 2400 later.

How is that arbitrary? Jajaja. You are the one saying that "he should gain 8000 in one go". I am saying he will have 8000 and the process already started. The amount of followers he gains at one given time is inconsequential to the lie.

Yeah I don't think you get what I'm saying lol.

Oh, I do get what you are saying, it is plainly obvious we just disagree.

I'm not counting the 5600 at all and I don't think Usopp should be limited to only recruiting 2400 more followers for the rest of the series.

Yeah, seems odd that you wouldn't count them in, when they literally said they were following him till death. And it is because of Usopp that they are following Luffy.

Basically, you are saying that he hasn't acquired any follower and I am saying he has. Also, more than limiting to 2400, it is more about he still needs 2400 to reach his lie. If he goes beyond that then cool. It could even be used as a joke.

Usopp: "I have 8000 followers"
10000 show up
everyone: nani?!

So Luffy's.

And Usopp's. They are not mutually exclusive. There is even a statue next to Luffy's.

@Jonouchi:

The Strawhat Grand Fleet is pretty clearly just for the Drssrosa Cast.

Everyone bonded and followed Luffy throughout the arc and all made the decision to follow them even Bellamy got a piece of the Vivre Card and its made mention that they would perform a great act.

Its pretty clear the Grand Fleet is not expanding.

But Luffy didn't accept them as subordinates. I think the premise for the Grand Fleet is pretty neat. They are a bunch of people that literally are following Luffy. There is nothing besides limiting yourself, to think that the Straw Hats will not affect more people like they did with the fleet.

That's why I think the way to distinguish the fleet from other allies is Luffy's vivre card. People that receive the card will have formed deep bonds with Luffy,

@Zik:

Yeah, I don't agree in accrediting the grand fleet members except for those that exchanged sake cups solely as Usopp's followers instead of the strawhats grand fleet.

Usopp's followers and the grand fleet are the same thing.

Also seems more likely to me Usopp would gain his 8000 followers all at once not in some keep up with amount every arc or so and add them up near the end.

Why? Seems like an arbitrary criteria.

I don't see the cap on what Usopp does as only 2400 left.

2400 + 5600 = 8000. Which is equal to the lie. We just disagree that the fleet and Usopp followers are not the same. Could be, but I don't see it.

That's the thing. I'm not going with this limit of 2400 when it should easily exceed that.

2400 + 5600 = 8000.

Seem more like Luffy followers to me.

Through Usopp:
[hide]

[/hide]

@Zik:

Why?

Because Usopp's lie is about 8000 followers not 16000.

Do 8000 more strong warriors not exist? We still got giants and a couple more groups to meet and islands to go.

And all those people will be in the last remaining 2400. It is not a matter if they exist or not. The current fleet already are Usopp's followers. Adding 8000 more to the current number would change the total amount in the lie.

This doesn't have much to do with what I'm saying about Usopp getting 8000 followers. If anything all of that points to Usopp being able to do it again not that he can't or won't.

There is no need to do it again, as the process already started.

The idea Usopp can only gain 2400 more followers is limiting and pretty silly. Extremely arbitrary.

It's more like he needs 2400 more followers to complete his lie about having 8000 followers. Like, the story says that Usopp will gain 8000 followers a process that started in Dressrosa. The fleet of followers amounted to 5600, seems pretty straightforward to say: yeah they will at least gain 2400 more, before going, well Usopp is going to gain 8000 extra followers beside the 5600 he already has. But if you believe that, sure.

I mean that's okay if you think it was a perfect chance.

Perfect is an exaggeration, but I'd say a good one to say the least.

I'd agree if I thought Yamato's flashbacks were done or Kaido wouldn't get one or if Yamato wasn't going to interact with Kaido again.

I guess there is still room for other important characters to appear.

Regardless, I don't think Luffy will be making new siblings with Yamato or anyone else.

Probably not, but I think it would be cool if he did.

@Zik:

Usopp could easily get 8000 separate followers.

Find it hard to believe. They literally started calling him God Usopp and saying things like: I will follow you until the end of days. They are literally followers, of Usopp and Luffy. That's why the lie fits so well. Because they didn't exchange sake cups like they usually do, it is the fleet captains drinking the sake: doing what they want -> follow Luffy/Usopp.

Do you expect him to only get 2400 more?

Yes. And what do you mean "only", 8000 troops is quite big of a number.

Well Kaido didn't say anything like a detailed list. He mentioned some samurai. Oda just highlighted Ace and in a small panel that one Beast pirate (I assume) that fed Yamato.

I am saying that instance was a perfect chance to introduce such a character. I took that scene as Oda showing all the people that helped Yamato. Samurai, Ace and that Beast pirate.

@Roosta:

-The language here makes me think the Grand Fleet isn't going to change:
[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/LhZq3XI.png[/qimg]
-I do think the people of Wano/Zou will form their own army, as one of Yamato's stated goals was to unleash the force of the samurai onto the world. However, I think this will be an army of Wano which is loyal to Momonosuke, not one which follows Luffy.

How do you reconcile the fact that the fleet are literally followers of Usopp and one of Usopp biggest lies is that he has 8000 followers. The current fleet has 5600.

Do you not believe in Usopp's lies?

The same way the Tonttatas have an army but there is also a pirate crew in the fleet. The people of Wano will have their army. But the focus is if any of them will switch their main loyalty to Luffy like the fleet captains did.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Zik:

As far as siblings go, there's nothing saying Yamato didn't form that bond with a human when he was young and traded sake cups to become siblings. Still a bit more to be revealed about his past. Could still work in to everything Kaido has said and Yamato's protests. The death of a sibling being a part of his tragic past would only closer parallel his story with Luffy's.

Hmm could be, although with the mention Kaido did of everyone that gets close to Yamato dies. I would expect something as important as a sibling to be mentioned. At least more than the random soldier that gave them food.

@Megadoomer:

• form a crew with ex-Beast Pirates and join the Grand Fleet? Yamato's dislike of the Beast Pirates seems pretty clear, and it's getting exhausting to see the Grand Fleet get used as a dumping ground for potential crewmates because the commenter doesn't like them or want them to join. (Ex. "Despite a decade of build-up, Jinbei's going to join the Grand Fleet with his former crew instead of becoming an actual Straw Hat Pirate!" "Despite being among the youngest and least experienced of the Minks, Carrot's going to form the New Nox Pirates and they'll join the Grand Fleet!")

There are more chances for characters to join the grand fleet than the Straw Hats. There's at least 2000+ more members to join. I like how offering a possibility to join the grand fleet = hate character, doesn't want them. It is brought back again and again. I feel it is an honor to join the fleet. People need to stop thinking this is some personal crusade against insert character just because we don't agree on the outcome. Jimbe was officially invited to join the crew even before the fleet existed, so obviously those comments are better to be ignored.

However, in terms of Carrot, she is more likely to be part of the fleet, and because she did adventure with the SH, she may even receive her own vivre card, instead of being part of the "Samurai/Mink/Ninja Pirate" group. I see her current character as an explorer. Travels alone, or becomes Neko's right hand. Experience means nothing when you have Luffy as a captain and protagonist. One Piece isn't that serious, if Carrot wants to sail out to sea and explore the world. She will do it. If she asks friends to go with her, some of them will say yes. If after details of the Dawn, poneglyphs, the Minks and everyone there get a new objective supporting Luffy, and if Carrot offers herself to be part of a crew affiliated with the fleet to honor Pedro, his crusade with the Nox pirates and Carrot has to live up to Pedro's shoes, gain responsibility, etc. Like damn, Barto calls his grandma to handle hazards at sea. It ain't that serious.

The Nox pirates would have been part of the fleet under Pedro. Isn't Carrot (and Pekoms) the best people to inherit Pedro's position as an ally to the SH because of the events of WCI.

–-

Questions for anybody:

• Do you think that there will be more members to the fleet?
• Do you think that the people of Wano/Zou will form a pirate crew to join the fleet?

You all are lying to yourselves if you want someone journaling the SH adventures and it not being the combined efforts of Usopp and Big News F. Morgan.

I don't think Oda has ever been secretive about whom is going to join. I started weekly at Impel Down and I caught up on a weekend read. I was also never spoiled on anything about the story, besides the volume covers, which a briefly checked. Honestly, I only started checking them more after joining the forums. I personally don't like meta hints, I prefer the actual story to show me what I need to know. Which is why I am not a fan of the SBS having the answers to some in story questions.

I also am not seeking them out or wonder with every new character. Like during those two days reading, the question was on my mind, but I was not looking for clues. Oda's writing style, was pretty straight, no chaser. I also didn't have weeks to speculate, so the following is more how I read the events. There is a difference between reading Robin stowing away and her saying I wanna live, in a span of few hours vs years.

Zoro: Luffy searched for him. Plus volume cover.
Nami: Chapter title, navigator that steals from pirates. Volume cover.
Usopp: Chapter title. Central to his introduction arc.
Sanji: Cook not dressed like a cook. All the other chefs look like fodder, and the other two, were there two? Are like elite fodder at best. Besides, central to the current mission/arc: finding a cook. Inherits Zeff's will.
Chopper: Looking for a doctor, Doctorine was too experienced in world affairs (Will of D.), and she had a disciple in Chopper. (Also, talking reindeer).
Robin: Important since her introduction by position in BW. Saves Luffy, which makes you question her goals, and at the end you wonder where she will go with marines surrounding everyone and Bon-chan ready to be sacrificed. Not to mention second time hearing about the mysteries of the world. Kureha says the Will of D. And Croco is looking for Ancient Weapons/poneglyphs which Robin can read. At the very least we would see her again.
Franky: Franky made an impression from the start, much more than any other shipwright. Like the twist for me was that he dismantles things, but we soon learn that he is Tom's disciple, do it with DON and a thong. Anyways, I was too focused on everything else, especially Usopp and Robin to even care about finding the new kid. By the end of this arc, the shipwright would prove themselves anyways. Who is Paulie?
Brooke: I mean Luffy asked from the get go, and to distinguish from the impromptu request Luffy does as a joke, Brooke was actually a depressed human trapped for over 50 years, Luffy is the right person to help said skeleton.
Jimbe: I've been a fan from the start. At this point I am reading weekly and I used to post in other forums. Before the crew split, the slavery/Nami relations with Fishmen/Mermen made me think that someone from that race should join. Fishman Island was the next destination, I was looking forward to a recruitment there. Luffy is starting to be positioned as someone pivotal in the upcoming war and breaker of status quo. I started thinking of Jimbe as an option by his strong introduction, and the relations between humans and his kind and how is Luffy involved. When we see Ace asking Jimbe to look after Luffy, I just couldn't think of anyone better. I think it is easy to see why he was delayed joining, put Jimbe in any of the previous arcs from the get go, it becomes even easier for the SHs. They wouldn't even have made it to Punk Hazard.

I just made a huge post with my current takes in the previous thread but to summarize.

No new crew member in sight, but Yamato is the only candidate since Jimbe, because again, who the hell is Paulie?

My prediction for Yamato: They will receive Luffy's vivre card. Hence, becoming part of the fleet. The fleet is comprised of a bunch of followers, and people have mentioned that Yamato's relationship is more lopsided in regards to Luffy. However, I could see Yamato and Luffy sharing a sake cup in front of Ace's grave, with Yamato leaving something there.

Yamato actually proves the point that the "too late" argument is an arbitrary rule as Oda is highly capable of making a likeable character and have people cheer for them even this -late- in the game.

It seems that a new remix of "Say my name" will be needed for Yamato.

@electricmastro

The biggest thing I feel is missing in regards to Yamato joining is clarification is what and how she would contribute in forwarding towards Luffy's story and the story overall. She hasn't really demonstrated any skills or abilities beyond fighting, and this combined with the idea of soldiers tending to defend something like their country or something they care about in general may fall into that, in addition to her guardian theme.

Would guardian of the Sunny, not be enough? We already had Kuma take that role once. The Sunny almost got destroyed by some fodder with bombs. It could even be a conflict of interest, with wanting to explore the world and staying on duty.

@Zik

The exchanging of sake cups and becoming siblings usually comes after close deep bonds. Ace, Sabo, and Luffy spent a great deal pf their childhood together and ended up saving each other.

I agree.

As of right now, Yamato and Luffy would have to spend a lot more time together. A character put in the position to possibly be Luffy's sibling when he's already grown up would've at least would've had to be side by side with him like from Saboady to Amazon Lily to Impel Down to Marineford back to Amazon Lily and then back to Saboady after two years.

I think that this type of bond can be formed in more than one way, time surely helps, but is not the only factor. You can develop that sort of relationship overtime like Ace, Sabo and Luffy did, or by overcoming a big event/trauma together. Which they are doing right now. If the stakes continue to elevate, with Big Mom, CP0, maybe even Blackbeard right around the corner. There are still chances for Yamato to save Luffy’s life with a similar weight to Luffy removing the cuffs.

The role Yamato is in right now really only fits next crewmate, long term ally, or reoccurring ally that shows up later. Becoming a sibling is a bigger deal than crewmate. Luffy doesn't just offer that up.

I agree with any of those fits. I just think it would be exciting to meet a character Luffy would offer that up to.

I will say I too considered something around that area when I saw Yamato opposite Ace on the vol. 100 cover thinking of what it could mean or where that placement might point too but as of now it doesn't make sense given what Oda has done with the character so far to reach that conclusion. Oda's done a lot more early with Yamato that he didn't do with Ace. Technically Ace still didn't really get a deep focus and focused flashback. The Rogue story he was an infant, the Sabo flashback is shared with Luffy, and a lot simply wasn't fleshed out with his issues with Roger nor was there much bonding with his adoptive grandfather. Yamato is being handled differently.

I would say there is very little too. The idea sprung from a user asking: if Yamato is not the next crew member, then what is their role in the story? I do not believe they will stay in Wano as their guardian. From my perspective, Yamato will at the very least receive Luffy’s vivre card. Hell, Yamato gave Ace theirs.

Before the raid started Luffy said they'd do the sake thing and officially welcome Jimbe in a big party celebrating the alliance and raid being successful. Chapters 999 to 1000 laid out that Yamato was waiting for him in the title. Its Yamato talking directly to Luffy. Points to more admiration that's currently one sided that doesn't lean to a potential familial bond forming.

Yes, right now Yamato is indebted to Luffy, the latter gave them their freedom and a chance to fight. However, Wano has not ended, there are still chances for their bond to deepen and it will. For now we know Yamato will handle the explosives. It would be cool to see them ward off the explosions in their wolf form with ice powers.

Even as the next crew member, Jimbe helped Luffy overcome his trauma and had a very emotional request to join with the blood transfusion to save Luffy’s life. To clarify, more than saying that this will happen. The question is: how could it happen? What could Yamato do now, in this short period of time, that could make Luffy ask them. Kaido has been telling Yamato that they are superior to humans and that they will be hated. Becoming a sibling with a human spits right on those notions that Kaido has.

@Rean
Guardian deity stuff: I do not think it has to be that overcomplicated. Wano has many guardian deities, so any of them would have an easy time governing the citizens of Wano that mostly revere them. Like, how for ancient Greeks it may be easier to follow a ruler with the blessings of Zeus, etc.

This post ended up being longer than I had anticipated.

General thoughts:

• There will be 11 members in the crew.

• There will be characters such as: Cavendish, Barto, Pedro that will be focused on. However, they will become fleet members.

• The fleet’s total number will be 8000 as per Usopp’s lie.

• To distinguish between: Straw Hat pirate, Fleet member and regular ally, Luffy’s vivre card will be distributed to fleet captains. Example: Zoro, Bartolomeo and King Riku.

Stance before Wano:

• No new member besides Jimbe will join during this arc
• New member will be a new character that we will meet after Wano (next island/Roadstar)
• The current saga is Luffy’s rise to notoriety as a “great pirate” a.k.a his meeting with Shanks. A great pirate could also be seen as an emperor.

Therefore, the current saga sees Luffy gaining a fleet and territories. Something that started on Fishman Island, and later on in Dressrosa.

Random characteristics I suggested for the next member:

• Waiting for Luffy and his crew. The idea spawned from Im watching Luffy’s bounty poster. I imagined the new member at the edge of their island waiting for the Sunny to reach its shores.
• Completely new. Not a previously introduced character. Example: Boa, Vivi, etc.
• Connected to the deeper lore of One Piece. Even though there is no issue with late additions from my perspective. The character having said connection to the Void Century makes it easier to settle in the grand scheme of things.
• Potentially a third eye tribe member, or any of the “extinct” races of One Piece. Again for lore related reasons, Oda then can organically present us with info dumps through this character.

Current stance: I will talk a bit about the characters most people talk about.

Tama:
A friend pointed out that Tama has not expressed interest in sailing with Luffy. It is assumed that Luffy will inherit Ace’s promise, others suggest that Luffy will just take her now and fulfill it. Because of how young she is, I had a hard time believing Luffy would accept taking her with them.

Luffy inheriting Ace’s promise to Tama is probably the easiest outcome in terms of what next for her character. Not that staying in Wano will be easy for her. She is still an orphan who barely makes enough money. Unless she gets adopted, she will have a hard time.

Another alternative would be coming as a guest. Back when Shinobu’s power was presented, I mentioned that Tama could be aged with her power. That she could get the idea from Momo asking Shinobu the same thing. With Momo aging, now it is just a matter of time to see what Tama does moving forward.

Some points on aging Tama.

• I don’t think it is necessary, she has proven to be strong and brave for her age.
• Aging her anything younger than a granny would be weird.
• The idea is that Tama’s greed backfires and she would become a guest on the Sunny as they search for Bonney to age her back.

To summarise: I don’t think Tama will be a new crew member. I think she has a great bond building up with Luffy and the rest of the crew. And I know she survived a beating from Kaido, so what does this 8 year old have to fear? Raizo can provide her with scrolls to transport her companions. I just don’t think Shinobu should succeed twice doing this feat because when the power was introduced they said: “usually Shinobu just rots everything she touches”.

Carrot:
It’s been kinda weird, to be honest had people not posted so much about her, I wouldn’t even consider her at all. However, I did try to see what else could there be for Carrot. And I see pieces where she can take on Pedro's will through the Nox pirates, and become a captain herself. I was especially thinking that because I kept reading: “can’t you see what’s going on? The pieces have been set, they will be developed in Wano.”[/hide][hide]

And…Wano came, and those pieces were barely focused on. As I had guessed, at one point the entire Mink army was down while Carrot was up, maybe her interest in the dawn could make her take more of a leadership position. That did not happen. I had been expecting her to mature more.

So currently, at best, I think Carrot may become an explorer, so she can grow and further mature for the upcoming final war. Otherwise, they can also replace Pedro by Cat’s side. I do think because she has bonded further with the crew than other minks there is a high chance she gets Luffy’s vivre card.

Yamato:
With the focus the character currently has, it is obvious the character is set to be an important one moving forward. Yamato themselves tick many of the random checkboxes I had before entering Wano. New/out of the blue, from an ancient race, even waiting for Luffy and to top it off, knowing Luffy’s secret dream. I feel, I should jump on the train. But for the sake of argument what other options does Yamato have?

Under the premise of: I will sail with Luffy. At the very minimum, Yamato is getting a piece of Luffy’s vivre card and potentially be one of the “heads” of the Straw Hat fleet.

Added onto that, Yamato may even share a sake cup the same way Luffy, Ace and Sabo did. They would become siblings! After Wano, Luffy and Yamato may even visit Ace’s grave and drink sake in front, adding a 4th cup to the three already there. If you think of Yamato as becoming a new sibling for Luffy, then a lot of the chapters used to argue for joining can be seen in another light. “The sake cup I waited…”

The guardian deity of Wano works in any way you want. We are repeatedly told that Wano needs their borders open and that this is crucial to Joy Boy's return. Having the guardian deity of that country with the future pirate king works with those objectives.

Having their guardian start protecting someone else can also work to tell the people of Wano: "this person is important, we should support them".

The fact is, without the DF, Yamato has less of a connection to Wano. They wouldn't be able to represent a Wano affiliation connected to Joy Boy's plan and all that jazz.