Posts made by GUTB

While I think there will be some fights later on, I can only see Zoro seriously getting into a fight with Luffy, with Sanji as more as an outside chance. Nami wouldn't ever start a serious fight, Robin is going to be 100% loyal after this arc and Chopper I don't see challenging Luffy over anything.

The reason why Luffy could hurt Blunoe and Sanji couldn't was because Luffy is simply much stronger. All the Straw Hats get much stronger when enraged, but Luffy is still much stronger – and what we saw this chapter is NOT his full power, just him really pissed off and seriously focused on kicking ass.

Hmm. CP9 members are 6-form masters, abilities which required extreme training ever since a young age. I would say each of them are very used to pain. But that doesn't mean they can stand up to what high-level pirate fighters are capable of dishing out.

The thing with the 6 forms is that you are covered every way in combat. That means if a CP9 is facing an enemy that break their Tekai (Sanji, Zoro, Luffy), they can use Kame to dodge the attacks instead, and vice versa for other kinds of opponents. If an opponent is stronger than them up close, they can hang back with air techniques. They have all the bases covered.

But, with that being said, a DF ability is still > martial arts. It doesn't matter how many technqiues they have if go up against a logia user, they are owned, plain and simple. So Crocodile, Ace, Smoker, Aikoji, etc, could own the entire CP9 at once.

When enraged, Luffy's strength is overwhelming. His toughness is also beyond insane; he has been shown to suffer many deep wounds and still come back, and each time getting even stronger.

If Zoro cut him, he'd just get back up and get stronger. Eventually, Zoro will start taking hits that would crush large buildings. Zoro is also really strong, but he is like a 10-year-old compared to enraged Luffy. In addition, Luffy has beaten multiple opponents Zoro would stand no chance against.

Robin's DF is mostly nulified by Luffy's because his body is impervious to grappling damage for obvious reasons. In fact, he is very resistant to all forms of blunt trauma.

Which is also the reason why Sanji would lose, and Chopper, and all the other crew members. Only Nami can manipulate energy – too bad her only energy attack is completely useless against Luffy, again, due to his DF.

In this manga a pirate captain is a figure with special charisma. If we look at all the real pirate crews we've seen, they all love and respect their captain. But the relationship between pirate crew and captain isn't one of superior and subordinate, it's one simply based on love, respect and deep admiration the crew feels towards the captain. This deep connection to one's captain ISN'T because the captain might be a good people person, or because he's a little stronger than everyone else. It's because the captain is a GREAT FIGURE, someone who is so far above normal expectations, you want to give him (or her) all your loyalty naturally. A part of that image of captain is that of overwhelming strength to overcome all challenges. A crewmember who doesn't feel his captain can handle this can't be said to be a crewmember in the sense a crewmember deeply respects his captain.

Are you both against facts?

I'm sorry, but Luffy would own the entire crew AT ONCE.

The only crew member that could even occupy him for an extended length of time is Zoro, who is definately tough but Luffy is just tougher still.

Sanji: Luffy is much tougher in a brawl.

Robin: Gomu-gomu renders her DF inneffective.

Chopper: Luffy is vastly stronger in terms of combat.

Ussop: Already got owned even after careful planning and serious lack of fighting spirit from Luffy.

Nami: Almost completely powerless against him.

The capitain is the strongest of the strong. No combination of crew can defeat the captain.

Logic? Luffy could pwn the entire crew at once. That's why he's the Straw Hat.

The captain is always the strongest of the strong.

Luffy >>>>>>> Zoro

Pirate captains always much stronger than their crew.

Ussop vs. Kaku is sort of a given at this point due to the Merry sub-plot. I'm not saying Ussop CAN'T beat the third strongest CP9 member, only that it'd be tough for him not be beaten first

But I'm willing to let Oda suprise me with something clever.

I really do wish Blackbeard would show up. I know the chance of that happening is slightly above 0, but damn it would be fun to see him just amble his big fat hairy chest into the Eine's Lobby looking for Luffy, run across a CP9 member than just own him like a cheap toy. Just to show how insane strong he (Blackbeard) is.

Spandam has yet to cross the villain's line of no return – when they betray nakama.

Throughout the whole series, if someone betrays and/or abandons nakama, then they are irredemably evil. They can kill, beat up the weak and cause widespread destruction, but they aren't evil as long as they stick up for their underlings. Eg, Buggy, Foxy, Shanks, etc. So far, Spandam hasn't doen that YET. So right now he's better than Arlong, who, even if he didn't hit Nami, betrayed her, thus putting him on the same level as garbage. Thinking back, would you hate Arlong so much if he had honored Nami's promise? That was the crossing the line -- when you knew deep down they guy was rotten and needed his ass kicked.

All I'm saying SO FAR Spandam hasn't crossed that line.

I'm kind of having a hard time hating Spandam:

1. Framing Tom is offset by the cofee thing and sexual harrasment.
2. Hitting Robin is mitigated by the fact that she's no innocent, and he looked DAMN funny doing it.
3. Stomping on Franky is mitigated by the fact that it seems to do nothing.

It's like hating a clown – have you ever tried HATING a clown?

Luffy could have diffussed the fight if he was more diplomatic about it. But he wasn't; he just got pissed off when Ussop was openly defying his power as captain. Otherwise, he wouldn't have said things like: "Shut up…this is my discision!" or "if you don't like MY discision, you can just leave," etc.

Okay, that really isn't the real Luffy talking -- the real Luffy doesn't go around giving out orders and get pissed off when a nakama defies them. But, at the same time, he's still the captain, which amongst pirates, means he's also the strongest, and the other crew looks up and admires him as the captain, etc. So if it ever came down to it, Luffy should be able to give a command to his crew and it should be carried out faithfully, even if it went against the wishes of the crewmember carrying it out. That's an iron-clad law of the pirate crew -- the Captain's orders must be absolutely obeyed. If they can't carry out the order, then they're not fit to be a pirate, or he has to be strong enough to challenge the Captain and take over the ship. Ussop tried to challenge Luffy as a pirate, and was beaten.

So essentially, the conflict happened because Luffy issued an order Ussop couldn't obey. This outcome could have been avoided, however, if Luffy had simply not ORDERED it, but rather gave Ussop time to digest it the reality and deal with it. But I will say that Ussop probably would have never accepted it fully. All the other crew members and Luffy spent less than a five minutes agonizing over the discision.

The fact is, Luffy basically told him that if he didn't like he could just get out. Ussop said that this was his true feelings. I mean, basically, it was. Luffy was going to get his way no matter what anybody said. When Nami tried to intervene, he told her to shut up, and that he's made his discision. When Ussop was being resistant to the idea, he told him he could just leave the crew if he didn't like HIS discision. The reason why Sanji kicked him was because Luffy alsmost said something too dangerous to be allowed: ie, denying a nakama a place on the crew. But it WAS his true feelings.

Now I don't think Luffy really wanted Ussop to leave. But he didn't even try to work things out with Ussop, he just decided to issue his commandment and then get pissed off when Ussop didn't obey it.

I think Ussop will eventually make up with Luffy of course. If not, Luffy might not fully live it down, and become more and more totalitarian and unreasonable with the crew, etc.

Actually, guys, I have to say, all the Zoan users we've seen so have have basically not been all that great with the exception of Chopper but that's only because of the Rumble Balls.

Where did you people get the idea that Califa is more of a kicker than several of the other CP9 members who have been seen to kick?

I don't know if I would describe Nami's last fight as being "hilarious". More like "stupid". So it looks like we're going to get a repeat of Nami vs. Doublefinger. Joy.

Just how long can Oda drag this scene out? Is invading the Lobby turning into it's own mini-arc?

How many of you actually paid attention to what was actually said in the argument:

Ussop: "Merry is a nakama, a living being with her own potential! Are you going to throw away a nakama because they aren't useful?"

Luffy: "Nakama are people, ships are different! Merry is going to die! Merry can't be fixed! So we're going to get a new ship and that's final!!!!"

Ussop saw the ship as a nakama equal to any other Straw Hat. Luffy say Merry as an object with a lot of sentimental value. In the real world, Luffy would be correct; if a ship was going to sink it endangered the crew and so must be thrown out. But in OP, Merry actually does have a soul and a will of her own, so in this case Ussop is correct. If Luffy knew that, had seen the klaubertamann and heard the ship talk to them then he wouldn't be abandoning Merry.

How long have you been into OP?

Zoro ALWAYS fights the swordsman or the closest approximation thereof. ALWAYS. Not sometimes. No most of the time. ALWAYS. If there is a swordsman in the enemy, Zoro will face him. Is Oda going to break with habit now after nearly 400 chapters? I think not.

If you go by her 79 million bounty she's definately #2 in the Straw Hats. She is, but not because of her bounty, which is I think way over her real value in terms of combat power. Her DF is really strong against humans, but much weaker against most other DF users, because they often have special resistence to the type of damage she can do. For instance, she could own Krieg, Morgan, and Arlong all at once but would have problems with Buggy. Mr.1 can cut with any part of his body, so Robin would just get sliced up if she tried to attack him directly. Luffy's completely immune to her.

Robin might also have trouble with CP9.

Sanji would lose hard. He doesn't have anything that would stop Robin fron tripping him up (growing a hand out of the ground to get his ankle, out of his thigh and grabbing his shin, hands over eyes, etc) he'd be in the crutch in less than a second.

Zoro I'm willing to believe can somehow use his raw strength to brute-force his way out of Robin's attempts to hold him, but he'd still be easily disarmed, tripped up, and ultimately beaten.

If you want to convince me either of these two can beat her in a fair fight, you first have to show how they can beat the Hana Hana fruit. If you can't create a plausible scenario you just have to admit that they'd lose to her and that's it. But again, I wouldn't also say that she's a more powerful fighter, only that she can beat up two regular humans. For instance, if Robin can beat Zoro and Zoro can beat Mr.1, does that mean she can also beat Mr.1? Doubtful; his fruit would nulify her's. And yet Zoro has no DF ability.

Okay, bringing it home:

Even discouting her bounty, Robin is clearly within the top power ranking under Luffy. She can beat anyone in the crew besides Luffy, but I won't say she's more powerful than Zoro or Sanji. I say that in the same way I would say that Nami isn't the 3rd strongest just because she can beat Sanji. The reason for this is becasue Robin can own any normal human, but she can't do things like cut steel or kick the crap out of giant monsters. Yama was just a 2nd class enemy because, remember, even though OP is pretty progressive for a manga, it's still sexist. Heroines are just not allowed to get into to a fight with strong villians UNLESS that villian is also female.

The female agents were assistants/partners to the numbered agents. They weren't equal; the female agent was specifically selected for her ability to compliment the abilities of the numbered agent. So: Mr.1 cut, Doublefinger pierced. Mr. 3 sculpted, Goldenweek painted. And so on. So just because Nami beat Doublefinger does NOT mean she can beat ANY of the number agents.

Okay, first thing first. Even if Sengoku is the strongest Marine there is, he's STILL weaker than Whitebeard. Shanks and him could probably own Aojiki like a toy (well maybe not that easily but you get the idea). EVERYBODY (presumably) is weaker than the Gold Roger.

That's because Pirates > Marines. The strongest pirate crew > the strongest marine crew, and so, conversley, the weakest pirate crew > the weakest marine crew. That's why this is the Great Pirate Age. Criminals today just can't go wherever and whatever to anybody. They have to hide from the law. Pirates in OP don't have to hide from nothing. They basically cruise around plundering whatever the hell pleases them. Sometimes they get into fights with the Marines who try to stop them, but as we've seen many times, they don't have the resources to deal with it all. BUT it's not just numbers, it's power levels. Pirates are strong enough to fight and beat Marines. The ONLY reason why they haven't just overthrown the WG is simply because they generally don't want to – all they want is their freedom to plunder and go do what they please.

They seemed to suggest that he and Crane were the commanders of the Marine HQ from what I recall.

Actually, no. It was to fix Merry. Getting a shipwright was just a secondary goal.

BTW, Merry is comming back. I hope there's no confusion about that.

Okay.

Great Pirate >>>> Grand Admiral >> Shichibukai > Mugiwara >> Vice Admiral >>>> Cipher Pol >> HQ Captain

As we can see, the Straw Hats are, right now, about in the lower rank of Shichibukai, which makes them stronger than anyone excluding Great Pirates, the Grand Admirals, and the high level Shichibukai.

So far there is no reason to believe five CP9 agents are more fearsome than 5 Vice Admirals, or else the threat of the Buster Call would be meanigless. In addition to that, they really have no way to beat the Straw Hats, so they're weaker. Just because Luffy got taken by suprise and then got hismelf convienently stuck inbetween a building doesn't mean jack all now that he's aware of their techniques. Lucci is going to be owned so hard it's going to be silly, which will then prompt him to unleash his DF. Once again, they don't really seem to understand what a 100,000,000 belli pirate really is.

We are talking about the people who beat Eneru.

Garp and Hina are cool. But they toast individually. 5 of them with major warships might be able to put up a good fight. But c'mon guys the Straw Hats have basically kicking the crap out of Eine's Lobby.

Hmm. I don't think the WG, as an orginization, is corrupt per se. You don't really get that feeling when you deal with the higher-ups; it's more like self-righteousness. In addition, most of the high-ranking Marines we've met have been good guys (Smoker, Hina, Garp, Aojiki, etc). Spandman kind of personifies this arrogant self-righteousness. He's evil but is not aware of it. He thinks what he's doing is right (same with all the Cipher Pol agents so far).

And as far as the Buster Call is concerned, let's get real for a moment: it's "just" 5 vice-admirals and 10 warships. Luffy > Vice-Admiral. They already have Shichibukai-level bounties. I see a Buster Call as a good fight, but NOT over-powering or unfair.

The Calipha/Spandam comedy routine is gold.

S: "Lucci, Kaku, Blueno and Calipha."
"That's sexual harrasement."
S: "By saying your name?!"

"Director."
S: "…what?"
"That's sexual harrasment."
S: "By me existing?!"

Although a Kenshin/HxH style tournoment battle would be fun once in a while, I really doubt Oda's going to start doing them now.

Well for that matter I fail to see how they stand a chance against Luffy unless they display power levels FAR beyond what they already have.

I don't know, I think Robin won't act on her feelings until the final battle. I picture a scenario in which Robin is escorted by Lucci to Impel Down, and the other CP9 members fan out and engage each of the Straw Hats seperately giving Luffy his shot at Lucci. If she acts, it'll be during the final fight where she'll sacrifice herself to save Luffy from the finishing blow.

For that reason I think Calipha vs. Nami will be the only girl action this arc.

I still don't see how the CP9 would stand a chance against Crocodile. Or Ace.

The power ranking is a character-specific ability, and the whole thing was presented as this kind of CP9 game. It won't come back after this arc, and it was honestly needed to determine a strength ranking between them. Pirates have bounties and Marines have ranks. So you need to settle who is where. But it doesn't account for DF or other factors so it's not that useful.

Ussop will obviously be fighting Kaku. Story demands trump power levels I'm afraid. Zoro will obvious be fighting Kumadori because he ALWAYS fights the swordsmen. I'm actually pretty suprised anyone who's been into OP for any length of time could come to any other conclusion.

Those rankings don't count DF powers of course.

Non-DF Straw Hats will nver eat a DF, unless it's some sort of temporary thing.

Doublefinger was incredibly weak going by her performance against Nami. Her DF ability was very weakly developed – she was little stronger than a normal human fighter. Even if Calipha is "only" as strong as 43 armed Marines put together, she pwned dozens of strong human fighters at Galley-La like they were nothing.

The Calipha/Spandam shtick is gold, sorry.

But Luffy is way above these guys. I just can't see him struggling with Lucci.

He has PROVEN ability against hyper speed: Seeing through Kuro's and Bellamy's movements and dropping them pretty easily.

He's shattered Don Krieg's armor way back in East Blue. He's insanely stronger now, carrying around multiple-ton gold ball on his arm and flinging it around like a flail and pushing apart two tall buildings he was stuck inbetween. I don't think Lucci really understands what a 100,000,000 pirate is. If Sanji can strain Tekkai to the max, Luffy's going to crumple it like a beer can.

Is that the Straw Hat Nami's wearing? Or just a generic straw hat?

As has been pointed out, Ussop wasn't ignorant about Merry's condition. He just felt it was wrong to abandon her to die. He thought it was wrong because he sees Marry as being living being, a nakama. Luffy didn't. But IF Luffy knew otherwise, if he could see the ship as a living person, than it would be unthinkable for him to abandon her and get a new ship.

No, I entered this debate because incredbly wrong things were being said about Ussop and the whole Merry thing.

Luffy considered the ship not a living person. That is a FACT. He SAYS so during the argument "Nakama are people, ships are different!" which was in response to Ussop's assertaion that Merry was a nakama. Luffy said that Merry was going to sink, that she can't be fixed, and they WILL part with her here. If Luffy really thought of Merry has a nakama, would he say those things? No he wouldn't.

…? You were the one who felt the need to remind the thread that it was about wether or not Luffy was being an ass. So, okay, yes, he was being an ass.

However, it wouldn't have made a difference even if he was being nice. The only thing he could have done was give in to Ussop, and went on a search for a way to fix Merry. But he didn't. He basically told him that if he didn't like it he could leave the crew -- in so many words.

And a pirate captain is a captain because he's the strongest. That is a universal fact in the series that's never been countered. Luffy is the captain because he's the strongest of the Straw Hats. That doesn't mean he rules based on violence, but in his case, the crew admires him for his greatness.

Okay, yes, Luffy was being an authoratarian ass. He was completely in the "I'm the senchou!" mode. HOWEVER! It is completely wrong to think that Ussop would have backed down on the issue if Luffy had been nicer about it. Because to Ussop, hearing Luffy declare Merry dead and wanting a new ship was the same as hearing him proclaim a best friend or loved one dead, and how they were going to get a new one.

Oh god, look.

Ussop was RIGHT and Luffy was WRONG. Luffy saw the ship as just a tool with a lot of sentimental value. It was important to him, but if it interfered with his dream or endangered his nakama, than it can be discarded "nakama are people, ships are different!" But Luffy didn't know about the Klaubertmann, about how the ship did have a soul and that it loved them SO much that even went to the unheard of extreme to repair itself. Ussop felt that the ship was a nakama, not just a tool. That is why Ussop was right and Luffy was wrong.

But on the other side of things, Luffy is a pirate captain. Pirate captains are the captain because they are the strongest. That's pretty much all there is to it when it comes to pirates. So when it comes down to it, might makes right in a pirate crew, even as one as nice and friendly as the Straw Hats. What Luffy says goes and if someone doesn't like it the issue would naturally have to be resolved by a fight.

If the Straw Hats weren't an option anymore, I could kind of see Zoro just kind of casually getting into something major like becoming a Shichibukai. That would, afterall, get him closer to Mihawk.

I thought about the whole crew fighting a Shichibukai. Except for the fact that: I don't think anybody but Luffy is going to beat the strongest of them, but he's already beaten Crocodile. If it took Luffy to beat the weakest, that suggests to me that they are all going to be beat individually by Luffy. Because if it didn't happen, than other crew would be get higher bounties than him. If Sanji beat Donflamingo, for instance, he'd worth over 300 million bounty. If Chopper beat Bear, he'd be worth 300 million. Is Chopper going to get a bounty 3 times higher than Luffy's? I don't think so.

The only exception to this is Mihawk who has a fight to settle with Zoro. Mihawk is going to be Zoro's final boss, ie, the man who he has to beat to become the strongest swordsman in the world.

Also I should say that there's a good possibility of a Robin flashback/history mini-arc followed by a few volumes of W7 wrap-up and the setup for the next major arc which commences following a minor island arc.

I consider Eine's Loby just the final boss stage of W7. But this can drag way the hell out if Oda decides to launch into an Impel Down arc.

Probably going to be an inbetween arc while they move on to the next main event. I'm guessing one of those Shichibukai posers.

The three parts from this arc I can't wait to see animated:

1. When Luffy pushes the two buildings apart demolishing them just before Anqua Langua strikes when he finds out about Robin.
2. The entrence of the Sogeking!
3. The first Gomu Gomu no Storm.

Yeah but Robin taking off didn't represent anything like the impact felt when Ussop left. Because 1. Robin nver really fit in and 2, she's only been with the crew for 1 arc.

Ussop's been there from since Day 1. Basically, I consider the "True Straw Hats" to be those who joined up in East Blue – Zoro, Ussop, Sanji, and Nami. Chopper and Robin are kind of like hanger-ons.