I hated Movie 6.
I thought the characters were extremely OOC, especially Luffy.
Then Luffy becomes overpowered in Movie 7.
I hated Movie 6.
I thought the characters were extremely OOC, especially Luffy.
Then Luffy becomes overpowered in Movie 7.
We also know that Perona's quite cute actually.
While Moria is butt ugly (no offense to the user;p)
Seeing their previous bounties, i'm inclined to think that Doflamingo has the stronger fruit.
Don't mind me, i can't back my statement up any more than that.
The Darkness fruit is indeed a gravity fruit, but it also does have another characteristic of taking away another person's DF powers by touching them. It's the reason why it's called the "most evil of the DFs" other than due to its destructive powers.
But that power isn't without its weakness. Even though it's a Logia, he can't simply dodge physical attacks like other Logias are able to do. That's the drawback of being able, and only able to, absorb another's power.
Hmm so one wonders what sort of bounty Luffy will receive after he defeats Moria? (Assuming he does)
I'll say somewhere between 330mil to 350 mil. Yeah that's either higher or lower than Doflamingo's depending on whichever direction he wants the SH's crew to go, whether they encounter Doflamingo or not.
Lol how many months has it been, FFA, since that talk about mihawk and shanks started?
and i think vlad Dracul is just being on-topic unlike the most of us here LOL.
Yeah what that quote is saying is that the Shichibukai DO go after One Piece after all. It's not like they're just stagnant and going against the yonkou to stop them from gaining one piece, because they want it themselves.
In other words, the speculation that the Shichibukai have to equal the Yonkou in terms of power in order to be considered a Great Power is less relevant now.
Yeah, it's probably not his real body. Like some have pointed out, i think Moria's current body is a creation of Hogback's to increase his own power.
He's still just a lazy @$$ though..
I don't know if someone already mentioned this, or shares the same sentiments, but..
Moria looks freaking ugly, much more butt ugly than I thought he would look like.
Sorry for being so random.
Anyway it might actually be true that Moria's power comes from controlling others, possibly the only way too (if you discount his huge body which could pack a quite a punch). At the page where you first get to see his full (ugly) face,it says underneat his title "likes others to do things for him; favourite quote: do it for me!" or something like that.
But then again, this is one piece. Anything can happen.
Gorlom: yeap that's basically what i'm saying. Haha it feels good to be back in the forums after so long.
Traitor Jim: Oops I guess that was an assumption on my part. We haven't actually seen the conclusion to the end of that battle yet. However, based on the hints we received, such as 1. Shanks mentioned something like " Ace is strong, i know that. He's young but he's the the commander of your 2nd division, and that trust twists things… No one will be able to stop this rampaging era!" and later, the authors line after the BB/Ace fight "many would say that the conclusion of this fight was the cause of an upcoming great battle" and 2. we see Ace's hat on the floor after the fight and some others.
Still, what's with the face? '_'? D:
Hmm I think, even though we haven't seen him fight, from what we know, Moria's power comes from being able to control zombies that become his arms and legs.
This ability, as stated in the latest chapter, has a huge flaw. He cannot control zombies that are too powerful for him. Even Sanji, arguably the third strongest in the SH's crew now, could resist control by sticking to his principles.
I think it's safe to say that Blackbeard, even without his Darkness fruit, would be way too much above Moria's level, scarring Shanks like he did. With his fruit, he defeated THE Hiken no Ace, Commander of the Whitebeard crew 2nd Corp.
There's no challenge here.
Anyway, like many pointed out, Blackbeard could simply nullify Moria's power.
Blackbeard wins, at least in my book.
While the discussion is still a little fresh, i'd like to offer an alternate viewpoint to this matter:
Perhaps the Shichibukai WEREN'T there to balance out the Yonkou. While no one can deny that the 7bukai exist to balance out the existing powers of the world, it may be that the WG does not expect the 7bukai to go directly against the 4kou at all.
Why do i say this? Imagine now that you are one of the 7bukai. You have power, you have fame, and you are granted autonomy and you have the authority to plunder other pirates without worry about the government's side, since you no longer have a bounty on your head. What would you do with such a status? Jeopardise it by fighting a member of one of the great powers, the Yonkou? What for? You aren't a dog of the WG, nor of the MHQ. Why should you risk your life, your fame and power, for the goals of the WG or the Marines? I don't know about you, but if i were one of the 7bukai, I'd rather plan for my own future and my own goals rather without worry about govt dogs biting my butt than remove one the govt's fears.
I think the WG understands the intentions of the 7bukai as well. So why then create the 7bukai? Well, i think i mentioned this before, the 3 Great Powers of the world are NOT the only powers of the world. There are still countless other pirates on the seas. There is still the problem of the Revolutionaries. The WG cannot depend solely on the MHQ to defend them from all these problems? So what do you do when you lack manpower? You recruit mercenaries. I think that the 7bukai fit the roles well enough.
How is this relevant? Well, that would mean that firstly, the loss of one of the 7bukai may not directly influence the movement of the 4kou, thus the shift in balance of power will not be immediate. Since the 7bukai do not handle the 4kou themselves, it will take some time for the world to fully feel the effects of a missing power. With the loss of one member of the 7, the MHQ will have to disperse more manpower to areas that were previously covered by that one missing person (in this case, croc).A dispersal, a scattering of more manpower could in turn weaken, perhaps not so severely, but enough, the authoritive powers of the MHQ. This lax in power could then cause the Yonkou to move against the MHQ and thus the WG. It's a huge round from previous thought, but in the end, that is how the 7bukai might actually affect the balance in powers. And why does this matter in our discussion? Well, it shows that it doesn't matter which member of the 7bukai is lost, because a loss is a loss for the WG. Even if the weakest of them were missing, the balance of power in the world will still shift ever slowly but surely. That would mean that the defeat of croc or whoever would not actually be proof of the 4kou or the 7bukai being more powerful than one or the other. What I mean is, it isn't because 6bukai < 4kou that's causing the worry of the WG, nor is it that 6bukai is still = 4kou that balance of power has not shifted, simply because the loss of a member of the 7bukai does not immediately influence the shift in balance of power. Even if say Mihawk, whom right now i believe is the strongest of the lot, or whomever you think is, were to be eliminated and croc. were still around doing his duty as a 7bukai, the effect would be almost exactly the same. The effects of the chaos in an imbalance would not be immediately felt, but sooner or later it would as the MHQ scatters their powers.
I just realised this is a rather long essay, but I hope you guys do get the point of it.
you forgot "Ouka"
Literally translated: "below the King".
thanks Gorlom ;p
And no one's kissing @$$, sanctum. I don't see a reason why he should, it's not like i'm a mod or admin around here.
Oh, and btw, Superstar isn't Phenomenol, he's WHITEBEARD. Though I'm not exactly sure if they weren't the same people in the first place. But anyway, the past doesn't matter now. Let's not be petty ;p
Anyway it's pretty clear to me that the Gorousei were pretty concerned about the "hole" in the Shichibukai. And, unmentioningly, to stop the contact between 2 of the 4kou, they sent an entire Marine Fleet against them, unsuccessfully. I don't see how the 5 elder stars were treating these imbalances like nothing. Unless you're saying that an entire Marine fleet is nothing, then there's not much to argue about.
Hmm why didn't they send a Buster Call against the 2 4kou? Could it be that contact between them really isn't as "extremely dangerous" as they themselves have claimed? Or were they more afraid of losing 5 precious Vice-Admirals to the likes of pirates? Or maybe they just forgot -_-
I think Superstar brought up a valid point. Though I do not agree about the WG's opinion on the Shichibukai i.e. the WG are pretty worried about the imbalance in power, and Shanks isn't worried about it, he just seems to worry more about Ace.
But it is true that we haven't seen any of the other powers' powers. I believe we shouldn't conclude about that since 7bukai = 4kou, therefore an average 4kou can beat an average 7bukai, because each of them have their own problems to deal with. The "Three Great Powers" are not the three ONLY powers around. There are the Revolutionaries to be concerned with. There are other pirates which they must deal with. And there is still the problem of that chance that One Piece is found by anyone else besides themselves.
While it is my humble opinion that the 4kou must have an edge in power to be able to maintain their positions of power, the way Oda drew things leaves anything open to interpretation.
I'm going to have to agree with Gorlom. Maybe not yet, but if tensions escalate like it did before, then yes we're going to see another closure.
And I do agree that the Marines hold the most power, but their forces are so divided (even though I estimate that roughly 70 to 80% of their power is concentrated on the Grand Line itself where it is needed most) that they can't simply combine their total strength to eliminate the 4 Emperors.
The Emperors, on the other hand, keep their forces mostly to themselves, and do not have to spread them thin since they do not have the moral responsibility of keeping order on the seas or defeating enemies of the WG. Thus their strength is highly concentrated. I figure that's the reason why, even though none of them have (yet) allied with each other, they are still able to maintain their ground and rule their part of the ocean like a "king".
The Shichibukai are merely concerned with their own benefit, from what we've seen of them. Unlike the 4 Kings, who must have their own pirate crews to be able to be considered as one, they can afford to go solo, for it is their own reputation that have earned them their positions (even though most still have their own crews anyway; only Mihawk seems to not have any, and it is unsure whether Bartholomew Kuma has one or not). They exist because the WG requires a 3rd power to maintain a balance in the world, without which, they claim, could cause an era of conflict. It should be noted that the Shichibukai were hired not only balance out the Yonkou's powers, but also the other pirates of the world. As said by Robin, "there are as many pirates as there as stars in the sky", there is a high possibility that the Shichibukai are there Not to go against the Yonkou, as many have believed (it would not be very beneficial for them to fight against a major power, since they do not have to and would inevitably injure themselves in the process), but to balance out the rest of the pirates while the Marines go against the Yonkou. There are WAY too many factors in a huge world like One Piece's to safely conclude that the 3 powers only go against one another.
Lol this is a good one.
First, 7 Worlds of the Sea = 4 Emperors.
Then, 4 Worlds of the Sea = 4 Emperors.
Anyway yeah there'll always be a power gap even among the strongest men. To me, it'd be really disappointing if they were all at the level of Crocodile. I mean, it's true that Crocodile is indeed quite powerful, and almost threatened the stability of the world (technically not since Nico Robin wouldn't have given him the location of the Ancient Weapon anyway), but to be defeated by Luffy who wasn't yet even as powerful as he is now..
I'd really love to see what Moria can do.
Lol well if you think about it, it's been 10 years since he tried, and he hasn't gotten it yet.
In One Piece terms, yeah actually i too was thinking it'd be a bit far-fetched if Luffy would get One Piece within the relatively short period he spends in the GrandLine. Plus he's only seventeen.
A timeskip might solve that, but I hope Oda doesn't pull one out like Kishimoto did for Naruto.
6? Geez i hated that movie. The characters were extremely OOC. How could Zoro be so weak? How could Luffy jeopardise his own crewmates' safety? Since when was Robin was stupid? HOW IN THE WORLD COULD ANY PIRATE, BESIDES THE SPECIFICALLY STATED "ONLY MAN" WHITEBEARD, RIVAL GOL D. ROGER??
I kinda liked the dead end adventure race one though. That one had a nice pirate feel to it. The rest of the movies were quite bad though.
And back on topic, yeah that move was inspired by the manga. The movie just thought it could offer an explanation on how Luffy suddenly acquired the movie. I personally thought that Luffy's "I won't let my nakama die" spirit that instinctively drove him to learn the move a more easy-to-swallow concept.
Hmm this is an interesting thread.
May I add one more:
CP9 would still be working at Water 7.
Whoa wasn't this a thread on the shichibukai not getting One Piece? How did it evolve to a Shanks/WB thing?
Anyway, i think that neither men have used their full strength in that clash. I mean, yes they surely used a lot of it, but the clash seems to be one of 2 men debating and disagreeing. You can get to a point of using violence to try to settle things, but the situation is really quite different from a life-and-death full-power-all-the-way kind of fight (like the one between Luffy and Lucci). The outcome is anyone's guess, though it'll likely end in WB's win, but i highly doubt either of the 2 would be left hanging on the string of their life.
Anyway, fixius, WB's and Shanks' serious fight certainly will, i mean, look at Luffy and Lucci already. They wrecked an entire building plus an entire battlecruiser.
Considering there's only 52 weeks in a year, and the entire enies lobby took about a little more than a hundred episodes, i'd say you may just be right in saying that.
Though I seriously hope not. Moria's abilities seem to be interesting. I can't wait to see him get smashed by Luffy (if he does).
This scenario sort of reminds me of the story of Dune, where we havethe noble Atreides set against the evil Harkonnen and the insidious, mercenary Ordos.
Here we have the "noble" Marines and the "evil" pirates aka 4 kings and the "insidious", taking-no-sides, mercenary Ordos.
The "Padishah Emperor" here would then be the WG, who sets the 3 houses against each other.
Just a thought.
Hmm that could happen, but Kokoro-san already said that their next island is Fishman Isle and between them stands Florian Triangle. I think Elbaf would have been mentioned if it were in their way.
Whoa hey thanks Gorlom ol' pal, glad you could see my point ;p
But I guess some people in this world who are just petty.
Whatever OiP i don't even feel the need to argue with you. You like your stance, good, keep it that way.
Anyway, actually I'd prefer it if Shanks actually had the 2nd highest bounty in the world currently, being a fan of Shanks and all, but seeing the response of the WG just gave me that food for thought.
Shanks seems laid back enough. I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the less-managed Yonkou. The other 2 unknown ones seem to have really evil faces that need a good bashing and a lot of controlling by the Marines. Esp the guy who looks like Wanze's dad (i SERIOUSLY HOPE he isn't, though)
Now that I think about it, if the 3 powers really were equal in power, then why haven't the yonkou been eliminated yet? Because first of all, the Shichibukai don't clash head on with the Marines. 2nd, the Yonkou themselves are rivals with each other, like all pirates are, while the Shichibukai don't seem to have too much trouble with one another. Understandably, they can't exactly work with each other, but i don't see how eliminating a strong rival like a yonkou wouldn't be beneficial enough for them to not want to work with each other.
Right power and danger are two seperate things. The way you wrote it there seemed no difference. E.g:
Two pirate invovled inncidents are reported to the marines. The first is Aapirate who is weak pulls up to a dock and kills 1,000 innocent people. And the second report is a much stronger pirate, but he just pulls up to another dock and steals 50 beri off the guy who greeted him at the docks and then leaves.
They have no previous bounties so when their first bounties are released - who is gonna get the higher one.
The first pirate isn't strong… He is just dangerous. The second is strong but not dangerous.
Yes, let me explain. Based on the scenario you gave, assuming both had proclaimed themselves to be pirates (it'd be much different if they hadn't; the WG wouldn't give a dam about any strong persons who wouldn't be in direct conflicting interests with them), the WG would likely 'award' the higher bounty to the first person who killed the 1000 people. That is because they have not yet seen the power of the 2nd person, who is supposedly stronger. They assign their bounties based on what they know, and from they've seen, the first person displayed much more power than the 2nd. They therefore assume the 1st to be more powerful, and thus give him the higher bounty.
This is but a hypothetical scenario. We know that the WG, or rather, Oda, gives the characters their bounties based on their power levels because 1. we see Luffy getting higher and higher bounties (from nothing to 30mil to 100mil) even though he did not do any WG-wrecking incident until Enies Lobby, and 2. Oda had estimated Enel's would-be bounty of 500mil based on "how tricky he was to beat".
Polygon said that my sentence made no sense. Let me explain that part. I had just mentioned that bounties were proportional to power levels, then I seem to contradict myself with saying that Shanks may not have such a high bounty, even though his great strength is for all to see. This is purely my speculation, but my reason for saying this is that Shanks, even with his strength and all, may not pose that heavy a threat on his own to the WG, as compared to the rest of the Yonkou. That is, from the WG's perspective, whether flawed or not, Shanks and his crew are not as "powerful" as the other 3, simply because they may not actually be gathering to attack the WG or whatnot. I'm saying that the other 3 definitely are gathering strength to atack the WG, but, seeing as how the WG seems to imply that Shanks as a laid back attitude, they may be more inclined to think he and his crew may not be as strong as the rest, even if he may actually be stronger than 2 of them. Don't get me wrong; his bounty is probably still very high, like nearly a billion or something, but still low relative to the other 3 'emperors'.
Of cos, if Shanks had some sort of former reputation, like having smashed from impenetratable fort, or is the world's strongest red hair dude or something, then things might change haha.
Considering his laid-back attitude, Shanks may not actually have that high a bounty, even though his power may be great.
Taken from one of the Gorousei's words: "Shanks isn't the type to want to change the world."
Also, Dragon and the Revolutionaries are probably much more dangerous, and hence more powerful, the WB's crew. Everyone knows that when Robin said: "Pirates can't really go against the WG, but if there's one group with the power to topple them, it would be the Revolutionaries. Their Leader is known only by the name 'Dragon' ".
And, bounties might actually be proportional to your power level. How did Luffy get his original 30mil bounty? By defeating other pirate groups! He didn't raid any village, he even helped with the capture of a rogue captain, but he gained a high bounty (relative to East Blue) just for his display of prowess. Understand that when you call yourself a pirate, then you already are considered a danger to the WG. It doesn't matter what you do; your bounty reflects your level of danger, that is, your power, with respect to other pirates, given your situation.
That is also why Usopp can have his high (30mil) bounty. Let me explain. He may not be much on his own, but being in Luffy's crew, where there are 5 other bounty-holders to hold the front, Usopp can easily stay at the back and support them with his shooting. His position is what gives him his level of danger, his power. Luffy, on the other hand, gained his bounty on presumption that his other crewmembers were worthless.
Actually I was sort of thinking that those people that Gaimon described came back after having lost the Davy Back Fights. I don't think the zombies from thriller bark could actually come out of Moria's control
Yeah the Yami fruit nullifies all DF-users' powers when he comes in contact with them.
Anyway Califa's soap powers can only take away half the opponent's strength. I can imagine one eighth of BB's strength is too much for her to handle already.
I didn't think boounties could suffer inflationary effects..
But looking at One Piece, I guess it does.
Nice thanks!
Wow.. A a 9-sworded demon all from his spirit alone.. Zoro must really be some demon. It's no wonder Amanedachi was so powerful.
Could Zoro's spirit rival Shanks' in future?
LOL i don't remember that scene!
Which chapter/ page is that?
Yeah I agree with MAcobo, I wanted to say the same thing if he hadn't posted first.
If you look into other "manga-in-general" forums, you'd find loads of people with lists of favourite mangas that don't include One Piece. Though generally if you do find those which do, One Piece often ranks high on the list.
It's not exactly fair to post something like that on a One Piece forum; it'd be much easier to get fair, unbiased comments from a "general manga" forum.
Anyway, back on topic, yeah, to me, One Piece is definitely the best. Naruto and Bleach are nice, and have started to get interesting (for me at least; i've been sensing a lot of hate in other forums recently though, i don't know why), but they don't come close to One Piece.
Rurouni Kenshin, Flame of Recca, HxH, Rave… They were nice, but i guess the hype in me's all gone now that they're finished products. Though, trust me, i did enjoy them a lot, and I know that I didn't have as much fun reading/watching them as i did One Piece.
Well.. this is a form of speculation and opinion..
I mean, what are forums for if not to discuss this kinda things? Would there be much to discuss at all if everything were plain straight in our face?
Yeah Brook's the musician and Zoro's the swordsman. I don't see why Brook can't be allowed to join. Afterall, Luffy's crew is THE most interesting one: they have a stretchy guy, a money-lubbing navigator, a soon-to-be-legendary swordsman, a perverted cook, a lying sniper, (it gets interesting from here) a half-animal doctor, an intelligent, multi-handed, biligual and hot archeologist and finally a cyborg ship-dismantler. What's a music-loving skeleton to them anymore?
Seven Worlds of the Sea? whoa ok it's quite different from the original direct translation " 7 Fighter Seas Below the Emperor" (Ouka, means "under the King", Shichi means 7, Bukai means Fighters of the Sea)
I guess Oda's translation does sound the nicest though
I'm sorry I didn't read this thread all the way through, so i don't know if this has been mentioned anywhere else:
Did anyone notice that Brook's sword kinda looks like Urahara's Benihime (Bleach)?
Thanks lots for the gigasize! it sure saves a lot of time
I say either Blackbeard or Mihawk, though i think BB is more likely. He seems to be quite the "final boss" to Luffy, what with him (speculation) doing Ace in and all.
Though.. it's kinda weird. Why does Teach want to be one of the 7 warlords when his ultimate aim is the be the Pirate King? To get information? Resources?
Goodness..
Let's just leave it at that then.
Some people are just too egoistic to admit anything.
Hey guys thanks for backing me up, even those whose stand was about Luffy's and Zoro's relatvie strengths were different from mine, but still respected one's opinions.
I think we'd better just stop discussing this before we get another humiliating "closed" by the end of this thread.
One last thing to OiP: In the end, you lost all your credibility. That's all I wanna say.
Conclusion: I'm not claiming to be the best person for something like a conclusion to a debate, but here's mine:
The relative strengths of Luffy and Zoro cannot be accurately pinpointed due to a lack of sufficient material to actually prove their exact positions. Those who felt that they were equal in relative strengths cited the Whiskey Peak incident, the Red Data book chart and the relative ease that Zoro faced in defeated Kaku versus the difficulty that Luffy faced in beating Lucci. The arguments against this were that the chart used only a small range (1 to 6) to distinguish their relative strengths and thus it was only a good estimation and not a good precision, the Whiskey Peak incident happened long ago, and Lucci had twice the strength that Kaku had, while it did not seem that Zoro had twice the ease in defeating Kaku than Luffy did Lucci
Those who felt that Luffy was above Zoro in strength cited the fact that Luffy fought all the "Big Bosses" while Zoro fought the 2nd strongest in all the groups that the SHs have so far fought, and various other reasons. The arguments against this were that this did not necessarily mean that Zoro would lose to Luffy's opponents, only that Luffy had beaten them. While it was argued that Luffy was aiming for the top, that is being the Pirate King, it was also argued that being the Strongest Swordsman might also make you the strongest.
There were also those who said that Zoro would win in a fight since Luffy's weakness was with sharp objects. There were no counter-arguments, however, as this case was not often brought up.
As such, the only way to discern their strengths is through self-opinion.
My own conclusion: Most people presented their case with evidence, and argued well. There were times, however, when people chose to close their minds to all other interpretations but their own, and as such sparked fierce rebuttals from either sides.
Anyway i'm kinda sick now so I'll just stop here. Forgive me if i were too abrupt.
… Pants-Eater, you're right. Some people are just too stuck in the mud to even realise themselves.
OiP, do you even know what you are saying? Or do you even understand what i'm saying? Look at your own post. You're saying that the chart HAS the ability to show 0.5, therefore Oda MUST show a 0.5 to distinguish any sort of difference. I'm saying the chart HAS the ability to show a 0.5, BUT Oda can EASILY not bother with using 0.5 to distinguish the difference. Like you said, it's possible to show the 0.5, but as with more mangakas, Oda Likely will not! You saying that Oda CAN do it is fact, but you saying that Oda WOULD HAVE done it is YOUR OWN interpretation. Just as me saying Oda WOULD NOT HAVE done it is mine, and i borrow experiences from reading other mangas to back me up. It's FINE if you disagree, but it's NOT fine if you keep insisting that my own interpretation of reading the chart MUST BE WRONG because no matter what you CAN'T prove that it is. You can't prove that Oda WILL use 0.5dp to distinguish small differences, because in all his charts he NEVER did so ONCE.
And I can't believe you don't even understand the implication of that line, that Luffy is the No.1 Strongest from East Blue currently. Given the fact that Oda didn't use that title on Zoro (he only gave him a "Infamous Swordsman sth sth i can't read the rest but it isn't related to strength"), it just leans the argument towards Luffy being stronger, if ever slightly if you must insist, than Zoro since Zoro entered the Grand Line at the same time with Luffy (unless you must argue that Zoro was about 1m behind Luffy when they went up the waterfall, i don't know i don't care), because the "strongest" title was only placed on Luffy and not on Zoro! Was it necessary to spell it all out?
Either way, it doesn't even matter now. Why I bothered arguing with you, i don't know, i suspect it's because i feel really insulted being as misunderstood as i am now.
If you going to argue line by line again, it'll just show you haven't understood a single word i was saying, and i'll ust say it now: I won't care about it anymore because it'd be just a huge waste of my time. You can go on ranting, you can go on and feel egoistic about me not replying, i don't care, it doesn't matter. Everyone who reads this knows what I'm saying, and it's your own problem if you leave a bad impression in their minds for not even understanding something so simple.
I am aware I might be leaving bad impressions on people's minds too for being so straightforward with my words, but sometimes I do get emotional too.
I once posted up a Breath of all things thread before that argued for the ability of swordsman to cut elementals and thus cut their users.
I can't seem to find it around, but basically it argues about what Zoro's sensei told him before; that the ability to cut nothing is the ability to cut everything. The term "nothing" should be thought of as something like a tangible term instead of an intangible that it is often associated to.
Here's another theory: perhaps Mihawk moves and cuts so quickly that the users get hurt even before they are able to transform. Case can be seen when Luffy crashes into Smoker and Ace and sends them flying instead of going straight through them, or Smoker saying that he has to "remain in physical form when the wind blows to prevent himself from being blown away" that suggests that the transformation into their respective Logia forms must be willed and is not a passive ability.
.. Yeah.
I'm glad most people can see my point. I'm thankful to Gorlom, Pants-eater and Kma who just proved a few posts that that is so.
To OiP:
All things aside from now, i'm thankful you didn't try to insist your way MUST be right. But now,
It is also your THEORY that the chart can show it to a 0.5. You said charts in general can show figures accurate to 0.5 dp. But charts in mangas have never shown numbers that didn't completely fill up their divisions or sub-divisions. That is saying, your "it can show a 0.5" IS a theory on its own. So stop acting like everything we say is theory with no backing. Yours is also a theory which you cannot prove.
And besides, like i pointed out (Kma, read this too), the title to the left the graph DOES say (directly translated) "Currently his No.1 Strength in "East Blue" !". I understand it because I recognise the chinese characters in them. Don't ask me why it was included, what with Ace and all, but it's right there.
To SuperStar:
Oh yeah, that's right. It's true I don't put much effort in reading your posts ever since the first few times.
No one's saying that Oda is lying (c'mon did you think we'd really think that?). What we've been saying all this whole time is that the chart will not detect any marginal differences in strength. I don't get whats so damn hard to understand about that. I know you're saying that since both got a 6 therefore they must be equal. Your prelying assumption here is that the values recorded were exact to like 10 decimal places or something. And yes when i said decimal places i do mean the subdivisions, or lines like you call them. What we're saying is that 6 is more of a rounded off figure than an exact value. And no, I, or maybe we, think that showing the a 5.5 on the chart without drawing out the appropriate subdivisions will just make your chart look weird, or look misprinted.
What's so difficult to understand? Or is it that you MUST always have it your way? There's no way we can prove except through asking Oda, but neither can you actually disprove us at all.
To SuperStar: I think ysn was supporting your cause if you didn't read his post properly. It just goes to show how much effort you put into really udnerstanding one's post.
To Kma: I'm not sure if you're aiming that at me but it doesn't matter. I agree that equality can exist. I always supported Shanks being equal in fighting ability to Mihawk. But, there are reasons why I believe Luffy is stronger than Zoro, and I think you already understood my stand from my previous posts, because i don't feel like restating them here.
Whiskey peak ended in a draw, I agree Luffy was serious there, but there was one thing about it: the fight ended PREMATURELY. So there was no way to tell who'd win. Like the fight between Luffy and Lucci, you wouldn't guess Luffy would win (from the standpoint of a character in the One Piece; he was constantly getting beat up) until the end of the fight.
And if you did take the Whiskey Peak incident to be true, then you must take the Data Book to have up-to-date information: That Luffy is the (currently from publising of Data Book) No.1 strongest from East Blue. So fervent followers of the Data book, what do you have to say about that? Or don't tell me that line is a lie from Oda?
Oh man I've really waited for this day.
$abz, i think they really did read your post, and i can see where they are coming from. It's not that they don't understand; it's just that they have a different way of reading the graph, which is perfectly fine actually.
To OiP and ysn: yes I can see where you guys are coming from. Still, here's a look at the chart that an MSN group has kindly allowed any audience to view: http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-2/red.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=8085
If you see the chart, Oda did not draw any subdivisions indicating any decimal places. It was clearly divided in 6 divisions, and this type of chart is atypical for most mangas (I've seen them quite a number of times in comics like Rave, Flame of Recca and Grander Musashi). None of them use decimal places to indicate any marginal differences in strengths. The only time I saw the graph went different was when a guy named Domon Ishijima, some character in FoR, powered up his psychic device and blew his "jing shen li", or concentration power, way off the scales of the chart, indicating his determination to not lose the fight. That was a one-time incident.. but anyway there's no relevance here i'm just recounting the times i used to enjoy manga like no one's business..
The thing is, though decimal places are possible, manga authors are more inclined not to include them since 1. they encourage debates of this sort, to increase readership and enjoyment of their respective mangas and 2. they generally use the charts more as a reference guide than an absolute value. Therefore, while it is possible that the chart may mean they have equal strengths, it also doesn't deny the possibility that they have marginal differences in strengths. Besides, if you ask me, i think it'd look weird if they they divided the chart into 6 divisions and then stopped the value halfway. It'd look more like a misprint than a show of marginal difference in strengths.
And btw, the chart isn't a "pie" chart. The actual term is "radar" chart. Pie charts are more inclined to look tastier.
Another side note is that if you look to the right of the chart, it says "No.1 strongest in East Blue". But that doesn't matter since they're already in the Grandline lol.
OiP it's good to debate with you when you've stopped being so "thins must be this way". Thanks!
Hey Gorlom is right to a sense.
I can't believe we're still at the silly chart. It's all too open to interpretation to say one is more right than the other.
To the persons who say that theirs is the only right way to see the chart: STOP IT. What in the world are you saying?
To OIP and Superstar: Do you really not understand? Or are you just pretending? Both my friend and I were assigned a grade 5 for physical fitness, the max there is. Does that mean that we're exactly equally strong? Or are you saying that the range from 1 to 6 is a huge difference from 1 to 5? Like $abz said, it's very likely that Oda wants to give us a more simplistic way of seeing their relative strengths. I mean, do you want him torment him with drawing 1000 divisions for each of his charts? We won't even be able to read the chart properly. I just don't understand what's so difficult to understand about this concept. We know you're saying both Luffy and Zoro's strength were both assigned a number 6, so in your opinion it must mean they are equal. But that's not the only way to read a chart. Stop acting like yours is the absolute way, like there's no other. Contrary to your belief, Oda did NOT specifically mention that giving 6 to each of their strengths means that they have exactly equal fighting abilities, or even have exactly equal strength. He just gave us a chart, voila, and leaves us there.
Instead of saying "there's no other way to read the chart other than there only being 6 divisions of strength", say "here's how i read the chart; it may still differ from yours"
To $abz: I know how you're feeling, but please don't argue with them anymore. Seriously, even though I read the chart the same way as you do, it doesn't mean that others will do the same. If they insist on doing so, fine, let them. Say "you may be right (which they may; it's possible), but i have a different way of reading the chart," then proceed to explain yours, instead of saying "No, here's the right way of seeing it.." You get what I'm saying? There's no absolute reference frame to see the graph since Oda did not mention anything, so even as we disagree with their views, and can be quite stick in the mud about it (yeah i got pissed off a few times too, but we just have to let it go), there's basically no way to prove we're right, or prove their wrong, so we can only suggest. The worst thing to do is get in a meaningless fight just to "be right". I mean, don't everyone want to be? But that's not how we learn is it? We learn from the times when we were wrong, not when we were right. That's called growing up.
Chill out, everyone, yeah?
Hey guys first of all thanks for reading my posts and for your compliments! I really appreciate it much ^_^
To fixius: Accidents can't be a good thing, but i'm glad to at least hear that none of those you know actually died heh.
Let's start pounding each other yeah ;pPp
I think what $abz is trying to say is that the Date Book with the pie chart saying that both Zoro and Luffy were each assigned a strength value of 6 can only be used a sort of rough estimate for their relative strengths. It's like putting their strengths in different tiers or bands or grades.
For example, you get a Grade A/ Band 1 for scoring 80- 100% in a test, grade B/Band 2 for scoring 70 - 79% and so on. Like, for a fitness test like the one i recently had, you get a grade 5 for doing above 9 chin ups, grade 4 for doing 7 - 8, grade 3 for doing 5-6 and so on, then you get grade 5 for running under 10min 20sec for a 2.4km run, grade 4 for 10:21 to 11:10 and so on. ( i hope this didn't just confuse you; it sorta did when i reread this thing) In other words, the data provided was more of a level to roughly gauge each crew members' strengths, rather than to pin point exact values for their strengths.
Which I agree. I mean, i'd be more inclined to believe that the values represented exact ratios in strengths if it were more precise, like say a range between 0 to 100, or 0 to 1000. But 1 to 6? Its your opinion if you say that that range's enough, but for me, it looks a little too short to really be too accurate. All it does is says is that Luffy's and Zoro's strengths are very close, but i should hardly think it'd be used as a good method of proving that they have exactly equal strengths.
I hope this helped $abz ;p
I'm kinda tired now 'cause i just came back from triaining (yes again) so i guess i'll stop here. Btw the latest chapter was quite good! Things are getting rather interesting now, esp since our top 3 are… haha nvm no spoilers here right?