Posts made by andy

Oda needing some rest is okay in my book or maybe sometimes after his hero died .
Either way rest up well Oda.

Very nice chapter also that negative list BS .
If you not seeing any SW or MCU near top you know that list wrong .

@astagadragon:

Glad the fight is FINALLY over. Kinda weird that in the end I only want for it to end no matter what the process is… and well, it was very meh. For a god fruit with an imagination-based power the finisher is very lacking in creativity imo. Literally the same finisher as Doffy, but only BIGGER. Also the coreography is just... not there.

As for the flashback, it was VERY lacking imo. Big Mom had that 2 awesome yet disturbing flashback, and Kaido is... again, just there. Very disjointed all over, interceded by yet FILLER pages and people running around. I think Oda is forced to insert Kaido's flashback but he had so little pages to plan... which is easily avoided IF ONLY he cut unnecessary filler pages.

At least it's over, so thank every deity above for it.

Luffy don't have imagination based powers his awakening is still tie to only rubber but yeah ending move was lacking creativity.

@FatDogForMidTerms:

Kinemon is an unpopular character? I took a looooong break after Fishman Island and picked the series back up prob. when it was in a middle of Wano. I had no idea he was not liked by the community.

I won't say he unpopular more like he just there .

@Razh:

If we're talking black hole, sure. If we're talking big fist can't hurt Blackbeard because his touch cancels out devil fruits, no.

The fight could be interesting, but not if it's treated like this one was.

While i like certain aspect of the fight , the tanking and Kaido human fighting parts were on repeat sometimes .
Will likely be better in the anime but i don't watch it any more lol .

@Razh:

BB can't cancel kinetic force and weight. Plus it's debatable whether he'd even be able to while being pounced, considering Luffy's Haki force field.

Just wanted to say that.

True but then again this OP . ( BB did suck all the force out a quake attack)
Oda could simple make the whole attack disappear along with the kinetic force and weight since it DF base or any other debatable stuff.
Like him using quake DF to counter or haki levels etc etc
Which is why the fight should be interesting .

@zeltrax225:

The bar feels like it's constantly being lowered. First, it doesn't matter if Kaido is beaten since despite being framed constantly as the biggest threat , One piece somehow became a type advantage series like Pokémon which it never was. If power scales were not a thing, Mihawk won't curbstomp Zoro back then and the power structure/ceiling that we all know and loved won't exist.
I don't understand why people still defend the fact that Luffy is now probably crazily close to the strongest being in the series and that further opponents will somehow still be difficult because "creative powers are a threat" despite Luffy being stated time and time again being the guy with the most creativity packed in his usage of his fruit or "Blackbeard will have more fruits hence more powerful!" despite a) his raw strength is nowhere near Kaido b) when he used quake quake fruit it was shit compared to wb c) it has been repeatedly emphasized and shown that "powerful" fruits does not make a user, how they use it does.
So guess what if Blackbeard actually becomes an actual menacing threat with his abilities? It will not only shit on Kaido but also the very fact that devil fruits requires years of mastery. You can quote CP9 and I'll reply that their fruits are physical related which what they've trained for since toddler age.

Kaido IS a greater threat than Blackbeard no matter what bs powers he develop in the endgame (yes, even if he did have 10 devil fruits), because just the fruit alone is pointless even if it is strong. That's how badly this fight screwed up established structures. There's no more, none, zlich, opponents that is believably more a threat down the road than Kaido. Except maybe the ancient weapons but even that is debatable because they will probably be written as a tickling time bomb or some narrative tool.
Sure, there's Imu and Gorosei who might potentially have some bullshit power devil fruit but there's also the fact that they have been sitting on their asses for years and is not written to be battle monsters that are walking natural disasters to the equivalent of Kaido and Big Mom. Sure they could be written as that at the end but we can all see how that's kind of flat and feel like a last minute attempt to build tension.

This is the equivalent of Naruto offing Madara before the final arc (which he kind of did with Pain and guess what, the power scale of the enemies imploded afterwards..do we really want a one piece like that?).
I get that this arc was supposed to be about Kaido's fall. But it doesn't necessarily have to be Kaidou's fall to Luffy but Kaidou's fall to the fleet, alliance of samurai and supernovas.
Not to a singular, but a combination of forces to take him down. This was nowhere close to what was portrayed in Luffy's fight against Kaido.

I honestly felt that Big Mom's introduction, while a lot of fun and chaotic, actually harmed the story more than it did good. Once Law and Kid took down BM, it was quite clear how Kaido's fight was going to turn out.
Luffy can't beat Kaido with the "combination of everyone else or his crew mates" because it's no longer a solo and he has to be stronger than the other two supernovas who did it without any significant assistance from other characters.
It would make Luffy appear weak if it's a combined effort. This is not a "but there's variables ab or c" take, it's a 2 supernova took down 1 yonkou so the 1 stronger supernova which is the MC will have to take down 1 yonkou, shounen math logic.

If Big Mom was not in this arc and every hero character, supporting or main, did a desperate Oz like beat down while Luffy continue fall and raise and eventually beat Kaido, it would make so much more sense and would actually be a desperate fight and Kaido's herculean power would make so much sense without sacrificing the threat of the endgame villains since Luffy didn't take him down alone but played the role of the greatest contributor.

OP piece was always a XYZ you even had croc say it in the series it self. ( also luffy creative with his DF is not even a big point in the manga ).
Then you add Haki to it and it make it even more of a XYZ. ( the whole power structure/ceiling has always been top tiers are close )
Also the whole talk of it taking years to mastering your DF don't mean much , hell the same CP9 got there DF and were using it rather good in mins .
Luffy basically push his DF to the max in a year , Sabo got his DF and was using rather easy in a few mins .
Also i don't get how your saying DF is pointless even if they are strong .
BB would basically been able to cancel that attack that luffy hit kaido with because that why he got the DF for in the first place .( not to mention people could just dodge the luffy attack )
If yonko and Admirals are suppose to be close then BB or the admirals being a match for luffy after he beat Kaido would make sense .
Hell Shanks stop Kaido from showing up at war shows that all top tiers at a certain level.
Luffy beating any Yonko mean he would no longer being the super underdog and Oda would have change certain aspect of the story .
If you don't think Oda creative enough to have last few fights good ( the series is ending soon) that is okay but luffy beating Kaido won't be the reason for it .

@Vongola_Boss_XI:

. And ultimately, I just can't help but feel that in order for Kaido's will or desire to be broken, Luffy needs to win in a manner which emphasizes the qualities which in truth make him fit to be JoyBoy - not the qualities which Kaido believes are most important for JoyBoy's successor.

Things is that can't really happen because we don't know anything about joyboy.
So we have to get more info there and even then it's question does luffy even give damn about being joyboy successor .

@Joy:

The thing with Kaidos flashback is that is completely half assed. Like Oda just showed this stuff because he knew he HAD to do it. What about his defeats, what about the Oni race and how he views humans, his need to die, who betrayed him etc everything was simply half assed. Put that alongside his defeat and you get a bad chapter when you put it together with the entire narrative. And a single entity the chapter might look good but it completely ruins the narrative

Some of that can come later and some of that we might not get at all .
Still it' not like OP villains is have really long flashback ,BM was like 2 chapters but not spread out.
Most people even less other than don .

EDIT even then certain things we can piece to see the way how he is , his country betrayed him and he was with Rocks a Pirate crew for 6 years that use kill each other .
It simple and maybe Oda will give us more later or maybe he will not , but you can see how certain aspect form how he is today .

@Vongola_Boss_XI:

Kaido's dialogue to Luffy is dispassionate. Almost analytic. Analyzing whether or not Luffy's fit to be JoyBoy. Compare to his battle in chapter 1025 against Yamato - which was far more emotionally charged. That's the type of passion I would have expected to see in the final clash between Luffy and Kaido. Because it's not just about who's stronger. They're putting their dreams on the line, but Kaido only let his real emotions bubble to the surface while he was under the influence and when he fought against Yamato.

This aspect to me has been effect by how long the fight is with breaks and what type character kaido is .
Like Yamato is his son so we see differnt type of emotion there.
With everyone else Kaido just looks like he having fun beat them then he run his mouth .
Vs luffy he was not dispassionate just that he never though he would lose or always in control and his emotion and dialogue reflect that .
Like even when luffy get awakening to the last punch this chapter Kaido was looking down on him and fully expect to win .

@Dragon:

I gotta say I was leaning on thinking the arc is over after reading this chapter but after seeing Mr. Morj AND Greg say they think it can't be over my belief almost took a 180.

Nothing like the voices you respect say exactly what you want to hear.

You mean fight ?
The arc still has a while to go but some people 50\50 on the fight ending .

@Dragon:

I also agree not everything that logically needs to happen always ends up happening, but there are a couple things that together feel very weird not to happen, which I would expect Oda to at least have thought about so he wouldn't miss them:

1- Kaido/BM either having a hidden awakening, or at least mentioning that they don't (made weirder that Kaido actually stopped to talk about Luffy's awakening but said nothing about his)
2- The final attack accomplishing something the island or the protagonists need so it has a cathartic effect, other than just KO'ing the villain.
3- The strawhats leaving this "theres no way we can lose" state they have been in all arc and actually feeling despair for a while so their resolve can be tested.
4- Yamato getting an arc that changes her perspective about something, either leading her to join the strawhats or not to join them. Either way, that decision needs to be based on an arc.
5- Luffy having a moment where he reaches a new level of resolve and surpasses himself by sheer willpower in order to win, other than just getting a power up.
6- Usopp getting a moment of growth and test of his courage.

One one those things being missed is strange and makes the arc feels like an exception. All of them feels like something went really wrong. And that's before you add the little things like momotaro and 9 shadows which don't NEED to happen but it's weird if they were hinted to happen but don't.

We already had some of that and others don't happen.
Like name one arc where "theres no way we can lose" aspect happens to the SH aside from SB.
In fact the whole arc was to hammer home how much they and the others believe in luffy which why Sanji talk to chopper .
While some of the SH had some growth of there .

Side note people seem to think we had a lot more flash back of BM past than Kaido that really not the case problem with Kaido flash back is spread far apart .
I hope we get more but most like will get it in pieces like the rest .

@Deicide:

IMO, Marineford served to establish both Akainu and Blackbeard as potential "final opponents", and I believe Luffy will have trouble with both. Akainu was also still rising in rank pre-timeskip, there's no telling which level he fits right now, but I believe he's far more dangerous than other admirals.

Also, there's the paper-rock-scissors nature of powers. Luffy won Kaido in a physical battle, but Akainu has pure elemental power, and Blackbeard has hax abilities that would sap Luffy's strengths. They may not be "the strongest" in raw strength, but they can compensate that in other ways.

I don't see other opponents appearing, however, and that may be troublesome. After all, there were once the likes of Caesar Clown and Katakuri to worry about, but any newcomer that fights on Emperor level will earn some raised eyebrows and head scratches from now on. Where have these guys been?

(Plus, there's Imu, who is a total mystery).

Yeah Oda already pull that trick with 2 new admirals after the time skip but that won't work again .
At least not with out a whole bunch of set up.

@DoctorPhil:

Blackbeard has also grown. Luffy and BB mirror each other. BB is the only big main bad guy remaining so that's fine (I think Im is not a combatant, that he'll be dealt with in the same arc as BB). Though I will give you, it's sad that Akainu seems totally outclassed by luffy now. I also hope that BM and Luffy will still have their evenly matched 1v1 to settle things. I have many problems with the arc but this isn't one.

You already have Oda saying Akainu DF has highest attack power ( plus we know he has high level haki ) or he would find OP in less than year etc etc
So he going to get hype to hell when Oda ready , just wondering if it going to be luffy or Sabo that fight him .

@Deicide:

About threats to Luffy, I feel there's only two characters that feel like challenges: Akainu and Blackbeard. Both are rising stars of this new age, so it's excusable that they became strong enough to contend for the top. Imu may also be a contender, but it's a mystery if he's even a fighter. Blackbeard in particular is interesting because his power negates most of Luffy's upgrades. However, the story will be strange if we keep seeing new enemies capable of fighting Luffy on 1v1. I mean, where were these guys who are able to fight on a Yonko's tier until now? Oda may pull a few 2v1 or 3v1 against Luffy to compensate for that, but I don't think this novelty would be entertaining more than once.

About Luffy, we are in a weird spot because he has essentially maxed all his skills. He got advanced haki in all three types plus awakening. He may still learn new attacks/techniques (Gear 5th in particular is still pretty raw and needs refinement), but there are no more upgrades available, unless Oda pulls a new power system out of nowhere.

My wish is for the story to rely more on the crew from now on. Everything in the Yonko saga has been aimed at make Luffy reach the top. But the remaining Emperors are known for having extremely strong crews rather than being the strongest captains out there. Maybe it's time to focus on upgrading the Straw Hats so they can compete, especially the ones not named Sanji or Zoro.

I've speculated for a time that the next arcs will be, in order: Mary Geoise, Vegapunk, Elbaf and Laugh Tale/final conflict. Luffy, Zoro and Sanji got their spotlights recently, so I could see:

• Jinbe and Robin getting attention in Mary Geoise (Fishman, secret history, slavery, Revolutionaries)
• Franky and Chopper get their chance in Vegapunk arc (science, engineering, artificial humans, DF origins)
• Usopp and the 11th get to shine in Elbaf
• Nami and (maybe) Brook show their worth to reach Laugh Tale

It kinda fits like a glove. But, as almost always, I'm probably wrong.

Decide the Emperors known for there strong crews but also big crews .
The big crew aspect will never happen with the SH , which is why we have the SHGF.
Power wise when it comes to the crew the SH already to yonko tier .
Like Jinbe is warlord and not even in the top 3 worst yet if Yamato joins .
I hope the others get the spotlight even if it not with fighting or upgrades .

@Tyki_Mikk:

Pls talk for yourself, I read lot of opinion of different readers who are worried too like Greg and I'm on Reddit,worstgen,twitter,german forum and youtube.
People are not really happy how different the portrayal was between the alliance(protagonist) and the villians(Beast pirates).
Lot of discussion about people not been happy how the Beast pirates got portrayal by Oda this arc.
At top now Luffy defeat Kaido the strongest creature.

That is why i said part , i am on all those places and others also ( not German forum lol )and part of the fan base don't have problem with those aspects ( also fuck WG that place is trash for many reason)

@Tyki_Mikk:

Let me ask this question, had fights like Hody,Ceaser or Foxy any tension for the readers/for you?
I remember people been annoyed by the fight with Ceaser, less tension in PH for any strawhat.
Oda and his stuff do anything to hype Kaido, make him the strongest one, even if we agree that Kaido was nerfed in terms of stamina, Luffy actually beat Kaido+strongest attack, took lot of Kaido attacks, what is posing him a danger in the future, in fact Kaido heat was the hot that it melt a horn who was larger then a mountain in the single moment when it touch it? Implying here to Akainu case, I mean if Akainu pull out his strongest move, how different it going be? I doubt it has any big outcome for Luffy right now.

The only one who I see could match/surpass Kaido, are BB and ofc Imu(who will be the final enemy), but the others will face a Luffy who probably getting even stronger after waking up from his wound after Kaido battle. It will be very hard for Oda to make all logical. Stuff like with Hody,Foxy or Ceaser shouldn´t work anymore, since with future sight Luffy should avoid all these problems, I don´t even count the fact that he has adv CoA, adv CoC(perhaps even get a new powerup like the version who most like Shanks and Roger had) and his mighty awakened power who could toe toe with Kaido and overpowered him, Luffy will master it even more, if this was already enough to beat Kaido(if he is down), who is going to fight Luffy who probably master anything, while the current one was strong enough to beat the strongest character so far?

We could reach situation like we had in late Dragonball z/super, with enemies giving a current Luffy trouble who shouldn´t been a problem in first case.
As I said even if BB is stronger then Kaido, the gap will be very close, Luffy already beat that guy who was called the strongest one.

As I said the possibly fighter who could face Luffy:
Kid,Weevil,Loki,BM(if he plan to bring her back),BB,Akainu and Imu?
I expect at least the half of the cast which I mentioned will actually face Luffy,how these fights going to play out, I don´t know but I hope Oda not mess up with the power structure in OP.

Fights for me have tension but they also don't ( luffy is MC he not going to died ) which is why how there done is more interesting to me .
The moves , art , panelling , talking etc etc
If Akainu pull his strongest move it could be differnt simple because Oda wants it to be stronger .
Oda had Roger who was the PK had rivals so that aspect of luffy having people in the same tier is not a problem .
Like i understand what you saying but to me that not a issue , like remember how some people though FS would or could be a issue and Oda simple made Kaido faster.
To me the power structure in OP has enough room for Oda to play around with , like Oda can make any admiral for eg have Haki on luffy level so he has issue with them and that not counting DF.
This along with the series coming to a end mean there no problem .

EDIT as for OP having DBZ\ super issue that will happen if want to make a more when story was suppose to end and make things canon .
Like in a way it already a issue with the OP movies which is why they not canon .

@Vongola_Boss_XI:

I would tend to agree with the latter. The only problem is the narration box accompanying Kaido's intro which says that people say Kaido is the world's strongest. I still think there could be a twist to that descriptor, but the next few chapters are going to be telling whether or not that theory turns out to be correct..

Thing is if you go by what wolfwood saying that should not matter as much
Like for eg if luffy was fighting BB , then BB could have just cancel that huge fist since it a DF move .
So it really come down to how you view the power system of OP .

@Tyki_Mikk:

It is not about Luffy match them, it is right now that Luffy beat that top dog of that group, beat the strongest attack of that guy.
Even if someone follow up be stronger, the gap is minimal, how Luffy will now grow from this one, a stronger Luffy means a larger gap between Kaido and Luffy future opponents.
That is only one aspect, what is about the opponents who are under Kaido, like Weevil,Kid and Akainu? If Luffy is already stronger, how these fights play out when Luffy keep going stronger and growing?
Where is any tension between these fights? Someone mentioned Hody and Foxy, fights who didn´t had any tension or growing for Luffy in power.

People not get what we are going with the current route, BB giving later a stronger Luffy(most like with a another powerup in terms of adv CoC) a extrem beat down and hard struggle, what does this mean about Kaido and the power structure of OP? I'm not saying Luffy winning over Kaido is wrong, I'm curious more where this going on from now.
And how Oda is manage to make a proper story, im sure you read Greg post, you should also understand what this mean for the future story.

I read greg post , the big difference between me and him ( and part of the fan base )is i still think people are a threat to luffy .
( Kaido was super hard for him even with everything and in the end part of Kaido down fall is his fault)
Talking about the future of the series we don't have long more before the series end , so in terms of big fights 2 or 3 people the most for luffy .
IMO Oda is a good enough of a writer that he can make the fights that left interesting and have tension etc etc.
You mention Akainu Oda said he has the DF with the strongest attack power so it not hard to see how Oda can make him a match for luffy .
The top tiers are suppose close to each other and if Oda needs luffy to be the super under dog for his fights and story to interesting i think that is bad .

Like i looking forward to see how Oda going to do things because things that he has been doing for 25 years he can't fall back on as much .
For eg luffy losing 3 to 4 times in a fight .

@Joy:

Ehh Luffy didn’t simply beat an emperor. He beat the strongest one. Heck Katakuris defeat was more ambiguous than this. Here Luffy straight up overpowered Kaido. No ifs or buts. Oda went back on his word, he did exactly what he said his fans would find wrong

He beat the strongest one after a shitload of things helped .
He said fans won't be satisfied if he beat him with just stronger punch .
Of course he added a whole bunch stuff to that punch ( haki , gear 5 ) some fans wanted more i can understand because that is Oda fault .
The same way i can understand that some people don't have a problem with it either .

@Tyki_Mikk:

What @Greg wrote, I totally agree with him.
Kaido is and was the strongest one, like legit Oda and his stuff hyped this guy everytime when they had the chance to do it.
Kaido was portrayal as the strongest, Luffy actually beat that threat, he took that position via beating his strongest move(if Kaido is really down)!!
And that makes it what Greg wrote, Luffy is the strongest being in the world right now. And even if argue that he only beat Kaido because of Kaido facing so many opponents, in the end we all can agree that Luffy is close to close to Kaido, beat Kaido strongest move.

And that makes Luffy currently the strongest one next to Kaido and here start the problem, when we ever had something like this in OP? The strawhats already made a Yonkou crew this arc, looking like the underdog, how it keep going? How matches like Kid vs Luffy,Weevil encounter and other fights even happen at this point if Luffy stand as the number one at the top?
And even if we say BB and Shanks been stronger, do you think the gap between them and Kaido are huge?
It will be like Kaido(100), Shanks and BB at best 1-2points above 100, otherwise and here Greg point start, the gap between Kaido and Luffy upcoming opponents became ridiculous.

And there the unrealistic events start and kinda open up the question, how big will be Luffy grow at that point?
"There's no threat. No danger. No latitude. No need to grow. No need to explore. No need to struggle."
This kinda desribes the problem who await us in the next arcs, with Luffy the man who beat the strongest creature.
No one in OP world(except Imu probably) going to surpass Kaido far exceed, the other opponents at best surpass that very slighty at best with a small gap.

Let me ask you a question , luffy beating any Yonko would have put him into top tier no matter what .
So if the yonkos , admirals suppose to be close to each other you would end up with the same problem of luffy is match for anyone .
How can you be near the end of the series and not run into that aspect ?

@King:

He is supposed to be the strongest creature in the world. The ramifications of him coming back are way less problematic than having the main protagonist being the peak creature while the story is still going.

Nah him coming back at this point is crazy and more problematic .
The man has fight 17 people , while carrying a island , KO MC 3 times and kill him once , made him get 3 power ups , MC get rest and food mid fight .
Then he decide to take on a move he could dodge but that end up being his down fall .
We gotten to the point where luffy can match anyone but that don't mean he can win .
Even Roger had rivals and if we are to believe the whole power scale of manga people should still be able to beat luffy .
It been 25 plus years and people still want luffy to be some super under dog make no sense even more so near end of the series.

EDIT OP whole power system be base on XYZ DF and then you can add haki into it and even tech which give Oda enough room to play around with .

The end of the fight was okay but i did enjoy it over all .

As for the debate some of us were saying in the spoiler thread .
Luffy beating Kaido after all that happen don't mean luffy still can't have a hard fight or even lose .( even more so with power scale system Oda set up )
That like saying because a team or person become the best in world they unbeatable forever which make no sense.

@hideoushorrendous:

Kaido no longer one shots luffy is because he got weakened and exhausted

Although there is no direct indication but the status of the flame clouds stability are enough for me to use as a proof that he got defeated only after he spent a lot of his stamina and energy fighting numerous strong opponents

Which means in a true 1vs1 duel Kaido is the victor against whomever and this war pretty much proved that.

Like last chapter you can see just how tired Kaido getting .
Yeah he going to keep going but at this point both luffy and Kiado end of there rope.

@Captain:

As much as I hate to make a point for Joyboy, the scene where Big Mom was ejected from the Sunny and the one where she was rolled off the Performance Floor both show how the regular Straw Hats can buy time against an Emperor without necessarily needing the ability to deal direct damage.

And I do kinda agree that it might have been a better for Oda move to draw out the moment of despair before Luffy revives just a tad longer. Not too long, considering how exhausting this battle has already been, but it I think needed a tiny bit more to fully sink in how doomed they were without Luffy.

I mean you really can't compare Kaido to BM in that way like Kaido could just stick air in dragon form and bolo them to death.( no tricks work vs Kaido like how it did BM )
Hell if not for Marco nami would be dead , I think that one chapter was enough to tell how doomed they were without luffy to tell the truth .
You had Kaido tell everyone they going to be salves even there famliy , you look and see how fuck they though they were from the panels ( even law and kid were like fuck lol)
Mind you Kaido could have gone after momo and then they would be totally screw over but he wanted to break there sprit so he ask for momo to come .

@astagadragon:

That destroyer of death attack looks hurt but it only resulted in Luffy gaining a cartoon bump on his head. So, minimal damage.

The tornado air slices? Luffy's weakness? Only resulted in scratches.

Point is, Luffy somehow gaining super endurance on the basis of "cartoon god lololol", shrugging big CoC-coated attacks like mere slaps on arm. Because "cartoon god endurance"!

Luffy took a huge name blow head and was not even blocking or using haki in base form and get up like nothing .
People need to reread this fight and see how much damage luffy was getting.
Man start taking more hit after getting CoC and now taking just as many hits in gear 5 which is another power up .

@tenchu:

If Luffy was actually trolling Kaido and letting him hit him ala Majin boo, I would have no problem, that would actually be cool. The problem is that we really don’t know. We see Luffy’s blood coming out of his body after hits but he keeps trying these dumb moves that Kaido easily avoids while at the same time he’s not avoiding any of Kaido’s attacks. It’s hard to enjoy the fight because you really don’t know what’s happening.
Are we close to an ending?. The supporting storylines outside of the fight say Yes, but the fight itself says I don’t think so, I don’t know, don’t ask me.

Who’s winning?. It seems to be Kaido but I don’t know. Luffy is a wildly Coyote. He’s clearly losing but he keeps coming back on the next scene kind of unfazed. I’m waiting for Luffy to say “hey Kaido” and for Kaido to respond “ hey Strawhats” just as they’re checking in their work hours sheet. Anybody remembers that cartoon scene of the wolf or coyote and the sheep dog checking in for work?.

Luffy always tanks attacks that is part of his fighting style .
He trying to attack Kaido he just getting outclass sometimes.
We seen it every time he get a power up that while he get in some hits Kaido still more that ready for him .
The whole unfazed aspect is the same as was before gear 5 , Luffy and Kaido take hits , get knock down and see some blood etc etc .
Then the back up again like usual , aside from maybe swinging around lightning he not do any dumb moves this chapter to tell the truth .

@Joy:

Luffy didn’t take Kaidos attacks that well. At least Kaidos high end ones. Horai Hakke nearly wrecked him twice. Now Kaido does an even stronger Bagua and Luffy completely shrugs it off in a cartoonish way.

Also if Kaido loses to a punch, Oda goes back on his word

Guess we see things differnt like luffy taking Lightning Hammer ragnaraku to head without haki that destroy the roof .
Yeah he said it hurt but got up a few seconds later and was taking more hits .
He in gear 5 which make him stronger plus he was also blocking Kaido strongest Bagua and it did damage him .
Guess we see how things go from here after this punch .

@Joy:

Why are people acting like Luffy only took blast breath ?

Luffy in a single chapter took a couple of blows from Kaidos club, Demolition Gust and Kaidos strongest bagua to date and he fought back right away without an repercussions. He just straight up forced himself through these attacks to pull his biggest attack to date.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

I mean it’s atrocious that Luffy now is just shrugging off every attack the strongest creature is throwing at him. And he is supposed to be nearly dead. Imagine if he was fresh. I love how the fight looks but Oda has dropped the ball on what Luffy can possibly take if the strongest guy in the series can’t even push his shit in now

Long time .
you see the attacks base luffy was getting back up from with out problems and that was before his power up .
Every power up just seem to add to luffy tanking power lol .

@Nubtro:

Come on, bro. They are both basically stuck in a Looney Tunes world where no attack has a meaning or effect a second later.
The beam burned him it instantly goes away, the other guy punches through his head and nothing happens.
Then he gets slammed with a bat and he bounces back off the ground.
I also enjoyed something like this years ago with Tom and Jerry and Road Runner etc. but this is One Piece ffs.
I understand it might be entertaining if you forget the story itself and everything that happened in the 1000+ chapters beforehand.
But this fight lost all sense of urgency.
Well, until this crazy-eyed Luffy guy (supposedly a "good guy") just created a mass murder situation by threatening tens of thousands of fighters in the castle with his next attack.
This is absolutely batshit crazy. In this very moment, Luffy is the villain!!!
Why doesn´t he simply pull Kaido away from the castle and punch him there?
I am seriously concerned about Oda, if he´s still sane and not doing cocaine or something (like other "larger than life" celebrities, recently the Depp/Bettany/Manson clique).
Didn´t one mangaka die to rupture of an aorta recently? I read that can be caused by doing hard drugs…

EDIT: If Oda is just having a blast going all out trolling, then well played. He got me good.

Half of that stuff was happen before gear 5 .
Early parts of the fight the beam was not even hurting luffy .
Or when base luffy was taking crazy attacks and got some blood then went away just like this chapter .
I can understand if you don't like fight now since it goofy but luffy tanking stuff he was doing even before gear 5.
Also i doubt luffy could pull Kaido any where , it taking all he got just to hold on to him .

@Deicide:

Shrugging off once doesn't mean it's now a breeze and it can't hurt him anymore.

Plus. he shrugging it back then was portrayed as quite a feat. Now, it has been downgraded into a gag.

Truth is bolo breath never seem like big deal lol
Like the second time luffy shrug it off it while flying seem to have no effect , hell kaido getting hit by it seem to be whatever .

@Ivotas:

I don't get what you expected. Luffy's fights always finish after everyone elses fights have been resolved.

Yep is why we see everyone else running around doing this or that and it could be chapters before luffy fight finish .
Just question of what Oda going to have them doing during that time but he set up some of that already .

It won't surprise me if who who is down for good.
Some talk about ulti getting back up but jinbe was savage this fight .
Broken finger and then wrist and then full power move to the face in a short time could mean KO.

@DoctorPhil:

Well, the problem is this is a shonen might-makes-right world. The physically weak can only be saved from the strong by the strong. To find out where laugh tale is, you need the poneglyphs. To get those, you need to beat the emperors. Who have CoC and will beat your ass if you don't have it. You can sneak in and steal rubbings, but again, being an opportunist coward is depicted as a bad thing in this shonen story. Even if you as a weakling find the One Piece, you have a big target painted on your back and every pirate will try to raid you (or will already have raided you long ago). You have to be stronger than every other pirate crew to become pirate king, that's how the story seems to depict it.

The story never depict it that way because roger who become PK had equals .
Yes you have to be a certain level of power but you can still steal them which both luffy and roger did and even get help even fights .
Remember Roger became PK because he get to the last island that was the main thing .
You have Kaido who is the WSC and WB who was the world strongest man and none of them were \are call PK.

@Dany:

That would be cool but we all know it's only happening now because he has no other way to communicate.

I mean we first saw it on FI but i don't think anyone thought Oda was going full telepathy after only Momo and Luffy pick up voices in Zou .

Should also noted that Luffy flying back with momo was set up this chapter .

@Jabra:

Wait a second, so Luffy lead the Heart Pirates with Voice of All things to him or what?

Now I understand what the people in the spoiler section meant with telepathy (I thought it was just Sixth-Sense Momo picking up Luffy's voice and the regular Eye-frog transmission did the rest).

Pretty weird. So Luffy can invade people's minds now? Like he woudn't need a Den Den mushi anymore, just his psycho power?

That seem to be the case .
Thought only VOAT users or those power animals could speak to each other only but it seem luffy said fuck that lol.
Momo gave the message on the island but law sub crew also seem to pick up some of luffy voice underwater .

Very nice chapter .
The sub saving luffy always made the most sense but some people went crazy with things lol .

@Buggy:

I think Luffy & Zoro are pretty equal in strength and power…Luffy is a lot more versatile because of his fruit. Zoro can only do slashes/twisters pretty much. Hard to compare but with Zoro also having to CoC, it just means that he can now also fight top tier fighters that use CoC attacks.

There is no way there are equal chapter 1010 was to show that and luffy was using base form normal attacks
Well until Zoro able to use his CoC .

@electricmastro:

If so, then why are many people who are sure about referring to Kiku as a woman are unsure about referring to Yamato as a man?

https://i.ibb.co/D93fGy0/6-FA553-F8-A81-D-4200-A426-B36-B80639-AE0.jpg

This simple comes down to looks and nothing else.
Yes it possible when the arc end yamato want to be woman but until then he see him self as a man and everything for months has been that way .

Got say i love Kaido trash talking lol
Yeah he was impress but you need to work on your CoC skills luffy .
Things not looking good for the SH.

@Coookie:

Yes, but Luffy didn't take his break to allow Katakuri to regenerate his Haki. And as I've said before, people can run out of Haki but so far it's never been an issue for anyone other than Luffy and it most probably never will, just like fights aren't being majorly affected by people's arms getting sore from fighting.
Also, Luffy might say that Katakuri's CoO is bound to weaken the longer the fight goes on, but it never came up again in their fight. Instead it turned into a battle of mutual respect and who could keep standing up, not who could better manage their Haki resources.
Never mind that Oda has been demonstrably inconsistent with what Luffy says about Haki and what the story actually shows

Truth is Oda has luffy using Haki so much compare to everyone else when he in gear 4 .
Like in the Kat fight he was fighting for good while just using Haki normal as soon as he hit gear 4 that was it .
Even in the Kaido fight it seem he was using CoC haki for a good while .
So i wondering what he going to do with Gear 4 and CoC haki and limit he going to place so luffy not to broken .

Man the news hit me hard .
RIP.

@Coookie:

I really hope we're not back to Haki depletion being the main drawback of Luffy's new weapon. It's never been a thing for anyone else other than Luffy, and for him only after using Gear 4, a form that requires him covering the majority of his body in CoA for an extended period of time.
Just like the lack of power is the main weakness of Gear 2, the lack of speed is the main weakness of Gear 3 and rapid Haki depletion the main weakness of Gear 4, using advanced CoC should have its own drawback, something that Luffy wasn't aware of because he just learned it and that led to his defeat this chapter.
But I'm mostly against it because I'm tired of the "I ran out of Haki, everyone cover my ass for ten minutes while I recover for a bit" scenario. I know it's been a point that Luffy has friends and allies he can rely on whenever he can't do something himself, but the future Pirate King should be able to fight his own battles.

Thing is he don't need people to cover his ass when he run out of Haki with Gear 4 .
He can still run and fight but just without haki .
Still at this point he already so strong is base form i wonder what Oda will do with Gear 4 now .

@Raffy:

I think that's pretty obvious he's coming back, if he's going to be teamed up with Nami he's got to be powered down from his current form otherwise Nami becomes a bit OP

If he comes back it also better than BM giving Nami Zeus or they become friends or BM just letting him go free.
None of that would have been in line with her character so this way you have some build up for it .

@Joy:

What I understood with his facepalm is that he's disappointed because he got excited and blasted Luffy off the freaking island instead of cutting his head off.

Yea that seem to be the case .
It would have better to show everyone luffy head so they know he dead but this was the most fun he had in a long while so he made that mistake and hit him off.

@electricmastro:

First time in awhile Luffy lost two rounds in a row since Crocodile I think, so all the more satisfying by the time Luffy kicks Kaido’s ass all the way in Round 3.

You can say he lost 2 rounds in a row with Kat .
But this first time where he get KO 2 or 3 times depending on how want to look at it since croc .
Which make sense since this follow Croc fight but on a much bigger scale .

@wolfwood:

I thought it all started because Luffy challenged BM to take FI from her. That and ate her protection candy

Well you can say it all started with Hody since thanks to him the candy factor get destroy and they gave luffy the rest of the candy .
Then BM wanted to destroy the island and luffy give her money and decided to take her wrath instead of it being on FI.

@Sibersk:

He has a good design, his earnestness and eagerness are likeable, and his connection to Kaido, while currently not fleshed out, presents some fascinating storytelling possibilities for the future. And the fact that he goes by the gender pronouns that he prefers resonates with fans who may have felt underrepresented on that front until now, with both Yamato and Kiku in the same arc.

Yep he has gotten a good amount going for him in 20 chapters .
Along with what you said you have his connection to Ace, him looking strong , does comedy bits ,even his meeting with luffy was fun .
All that left is to flesh him out but it is not uncommon for people to like a character before we see that since it happens often lol .

@Kishido:

Nami-swan is allowed it be above Sanji <3

Just like how your character would want it lol .

@Jabra:

Exactly, Kaido dodges Luffy's attacks. Specifically Luffy's. He tanked everything else because those attacks don't faze him at all. Visually they do (that's my complaint because it's overdone at this point), but not effectively.
All other attacks did no lasting damage, with the exception of Ashura (and again, we needed Kaido to comment on that because visuals alone mean nothing in this fight).

Just remember Kaido vs. the Scabbards. He was lying in a puddle of his own blood like a gutted carp, still got up and told us the attack didn't even open his scar. Every attack except for Luffy's and Zoro's Ashura was basically like a scratch from a cat or a pinch in the sides. Irritating, but inconsequential. As inconsequential as Vegeta and Piccolo dealing with Frieza's first 2 forms.

It's still a 1 vs. 1, with some other dudes stalling.

I do understand the point of everything looking inconsequential but i think luffy line and him dodging was to show the damage was getting to him.
Just the SN don't have the stamina or durability to do death by a thousand cuts ( which is why zoro did what he did this chapter ) and Kaido was having more caution in the fight.
Now thanks to luffy attacking him with CoC him being a tank going to matter even less if he get hit and luffy will build on the damage he get so far .

EDIt one of the things this chapter is Kaido talking how much of a pain they are and him thinking the fighting finally over .

@Jabra:

Of course it's effectively a 1 vs. 1.

The same way Frieza vs. Goku (+ some other Z-fighters) was a 1 vs. 1.

Sure he fought several other people before it became mano-a-mano, but this hardly matters when the villain keeps resetting the fight. Or in Kaido's case, Oda rick-rolling the readers with brutal visuals, only to let the villain comment that no sorry, this actually didn't damage me at all.

The only attacks that clearly damaged Kaido so far were Luffy's first upgraded Red Hawk, Zoro's Ashura and the last few blows from Luffy with the chosen one haki.

Everyone else was just there for the visuals and some bought time.

I think this is what annoys me the most about the fight, the fact that I needed a literal efficiency-confirmation after every single attack. Thankfully that phase is over since every punch is now infused with the power of the chosen ones anyway, but I do think Oda toyed way too much with the Yonkou-defenses. Do it once, do it twice, fine. Adds some suspense, I guess. But when you require Big Mom face-faulting or Kaido literally admitting that he took damage then the visuals simply lose meaning. The pictures don't speak for themselves anymore.

---

Honestly, I already gave up on the Luffy / Kaido fight. It bores me, I can't help it. I don't care about the power scaling itself at all, I always thought Luffy would solo Kaido, it's just that - boring. And the prospect of the fight being decided based on who has the stronger chosen one haki isn't helping.

Instead I'm banking everything on Big Mom vs. Kidd and Killer now. The fight where the outcome is actually open and hopefully not completely overshadowed by the haki of the chosen ones.

But that was not the case .
When you look at the fight Kaido was tanking the damage but it was still damage .
For eg Killer attack or Luffy G4 attacks and even law attack this chapter just that the damage for him was not a huge amount .
Still it why you had the whole line about luffy telling them there attacks working and in the next chapter Kaido decide to dodge his attack.
Now we get to the point in the fight where him being tank not going to be huge factor because of CoC.

@Joy:

I literally said how this fight will go. Whatever answer Kaido has, Luffy will just get back at him. Oda simply made Luffy the strongest in the series.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Kaido got a scar from Zoro so yes it did a lot of damage to him. Law is fine, he will get back up. Kid and Killer could hold Kaido back from attacking Zoro.

Kaido is right now weaker than Luffy. the five of them would be overkill so Oda just nerfed them because Kaido would get stomped.

Hold him back how you keep on using some headcanon to show you right .
Hell if i want to i can say he would have Bagua all of them .
You saying because he get a scar it's a lot of damage which is nothing but headcanon again because from what we see it did damage him but nothing that stop him .

@Joy:

I've already owned up to the fight with the scabbards. I'm not a guy who's just silently leaves because I was wrong.

But you're just dreaming if you think he doesn't. He literally got this power up just for that. Luffy will beat Kaido in a 1on1 fight, he declared so.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Kaido didn't have any fun. He was constantly getting beaten in dragon form and resorted to his best form. He only beat Zoro because Zoro was exhausted, Law is still fine after Bagua and Luffy literally ignored his ragnarok attack like it was nothing. No way Luffy was unconscious after that. Kaido was just tripping. If Kid and Killer were around, he wouldn't even be able to put Zoro down.

He beat Zoro cause he was half dead from his attack with BM and then used all his power in a attack that did not even slow him down .
Law is not find after his attack he on the ground half dead .( Oda forgetting to draw blood don't mean he find )
If kidd and killer were there what would have they done to stop someone they could do nothing to since the fight start .

EDIT like seriously the person that could teleport people was to slow to stop Zoro or there self from getting hurt and kidd and killer was going to stop him how ?

@All:

If he doesn't, will you own up to it or will you pull a JohnTnaig and silently leave the forum never to be seen again?

He been wrong since the Kaido fight started and it will just keep going lol.
You would think he would stop overacting because how much times this has happen before.

EDIT also if we having fun it's not because luffy punch that get stronger it's because of haki lol.

@Sibersk:

I don't think there's ever been that level of exploiting possible Devil Fruit workarounds in the series, pre or post haki. People weren't trying to superheat Crocodile to turn him into glass, or set up ground rods for Enel. The water weakness or rubber vulnerability were just for establishing why Luffy could eventually punch the bad guy really hard. Most of the fights in the series have come down to speed and durability, at least Gear 4th utilizes the fact that Luffy is made of rubber.

Yep gear 4 also add the mobility aspect that comes down to speed , power and durability we normal see to what deicide fights .
But exploiting possible Devil Fruit workarounds as you said was never a huge aspect in the series.

@aku-chan:

Why does the choice have to be between no Haki whatsoever or Haki dialled up to 11?

I don't think anybody minds Haki as it started out. A basic attack and defence buff, that allowed you to punch smug Logias in the face, which anyone with enough high level fighting experience could unlock, I doubt anyone even minds that there are different levels, someone using the stuff for years should be able to "Out-Haki" a newbie.
It's the new stuff, the 'I trained my ability to sense others and read their movements to the point where I can literally see the future' or 'Some people are born with super Haki that makes them even strongerer' that's starting to tick some people off.

Haki has it's place in the series, it even makes sense that it wasn't baked into the story from the start, as it's just not something a person would run into until they hit the big leagues, but it does feel like it's in danger of taking over.

Even with Haki it mostly used to help buff stuff but DF and people fighting style still play a bigger part .
With the series ending in the next few years don't really think it will matter .

@Zhenja:

Not co. just Marco, his flames have healing abilities.

Don't his flames used you stamina to help you heal ?
If that the case i don't think Zoro has any left lol .