Carrot's placement next to Blackbeard can only mean one thing.
She's his 10th titanic captain. Epic foreshadowing.
And she seems to be gunning for Ace. It only reminds me of Artur's meme.
Carrot's placement next to Blackbeard can only mean one thing.
She's his 10th titanic captain. Epic foreshadowing.
And she seems to be gunning for Ace. It only reminds me of Artur's meme.
Sunny getting 325 puns is normal for Oda, so its debut and references to 325 don't really rock the boat for me. The number theory, while interesting, seems too convoluted.
On that note, it always struck me as odd that Luffy's bithday is May 5th. 5/5. Why not May 6, or June 5? Get that Gomu pun in there. Instead he went for children's day in Japan. So he sacrificed the number pun for a thematic purpose. The last nakama could very well have theme/importance trump any silly number theory. While Oda does have fun with numbers, sometimes a number is just a number. That's how I feel about the DF correlations.
We're quickly approaching four years since Pedro's death in the Manga. Chapter 878, released on September 16, 2017.
One of the biggest criticisms of this thread from others on this site and other places in general is how this thread keeps talking in circles. Look at wolfwood's comments. What, pray tell, has changed with Carrot's chances in these last four years? She got one panel where they welcomed Jinbei, but was absent from the toast, the storming of the Torii gate, and the "It's the Strawhats!" panel when the raid began. She finally confronted Perospero, where she got soundly beaten off-screen. Her Sulong is less unique since Wanda has the same aesthetic.
In these four years, we're actually at a point where Carrot has less to her plot now. That's not hate. She resolved some of it, and props to her for that. She challenged Perospero and lost. All she has now that she lost to Perospero is the vague "Keep moving forward!" There isn't something compelling about that to put her in the plot right now, it's more of a conclusion to the arc. That's why she's only appeared twice in the past year.
And that's the thing. It's not that people don't want to talk Carrot or hate her. It's that we literally wouldn't be talking about her at all because she's just not relevant to the immediate action in the manga. It's been six months! She doesn't appear at all, so we don't think about her. She'll be relevant later. So when we want to talk new things, we can't because people are in here saying "Remember WCI? That was a good time for new nakama." Which is literally the criticism people have about this thread. If anything, that's what's driving people out of this thread.
Look, I get it. Carrot's your favorite song you love to play on repeat since the writer hasn't put out a new album you liked in ages. But not everyone feels the same and wants to talk about the current manga, not four year old stuff that shifted to Carrot after Hancock/Shirahoshi/Monet/Perona/Rebecca were written out of the immediate story. It's confusing because all this Carrot stuff SOUNDS recent because we're in the anime. But the anime is literally a repeat of stuff we already discussed a year ago. And all of that is just a rehash of stuff from four years ago. So it's exciting when the manga shows Neko kick Peros out of the skull dome toward Carrot because maybe she'll appear again for new material to discuss. Or maybe she's knocked out for good and Neko will get angrier about Carrot and Wanda unconscious knowing Peros did it. Carrot herself has not appeared, so there's little to talk about regarding her.
It's a classic boy who cried wolf thing. For years we've been hearing that Carrot's moment is coming, her big shining moment where she whoops Peros and avenges Pedro and realizes what the Dawn is. WCI finished without any of that. Wano Act 1 finished without any of that, but didn't give Carrot an immediate Wano mission like protecting Toko or Tama like the Strawhats got. Ace 2 finished without any of that. And Act 3 off-screened her big fight. I just don't believe anyone who says her big moment is coming anymore because they've been wrong for the last four years. Sure, it will come, and some people will gloat that they knew all along, but for now saying Carrot's big shining moment is coming just has a bad taste with how much the goalposts have moved.
But to frame this thread as full of Yamato fans who hate Carrot is just rude and self-victimizing. It's like we called out the boy who cried wolf for lying, and they're trying to twist that into we hate them for not drinking the koolade with them.
I honestly think we dodged a bullet that there were no significant message boards back when Robin joined over Vivi.
Oh god, could you imagine? "There's no way Robin will sail with the crew. An archeologist? On a pirate crew? How lame. Are we hunting for dinosaur bones now? Nah, Robin will just become the captain of the remnants of the Baroque Works and we'll get a cover story for her later."
Then we get Skypiea and Eneis Lobby in quick succession. I'll take whatever Oda writes over the fandom any day.
If that's the most emotionally resonant panel of Neko/Pedro you coudl find, my point still stands.
We know Pedro and Neko were friends, but that's mostly an informed relationship, never one that was explored on panel. Carrot is the character that had more interactions with Pedro, and even a past mentor/student relationship that was shown to us.
Besides, I don't think Pedro wished to be avenged in first place.
I wasn’t looking for any emotionally resonant panels. You stated that Neko vs Peros had no narrative weight. I posted a panel that showed it does have narrative weight. If you think it strengthens your argument, by all means use it. Unless you’re arguing that something only has narrative weight when it’s tugging on your heartstrings? This as a thread where people argue Yamato should feel guilty about Kinemon’s death. By that logic, there’s no way Neko won’t feel guilty about Pedro’s death since Neko could have denied Pedro’s request, thus denying his death.
Besides, the fight only just started, and you’re talking like it’s already concluded, or that Oda can’t expand on it while the fight is happening. Oda has plenty of time to add that aspect to the fight. Carrot’s and Pedro’s relationship is an informed one as well. We got that three panel flashback to tell us so only after Pedro died and that was it.
I do agree with you that Pedro doesn't want to be avenged anyway. That's one of the things we know as the audience in that he was going to die anyway. But Neko is the Mink King, not just one of Pedro's friends. If Wano taught us anything, it's that lords and retainers are honor bound to each other. Kill one, face the wrath of the other.
So… Carrot bashing is happening again.
Neko won't beat Perospero, sorry. He may well be capable of so in a 1v1, but it won't happen. There's zero narrative weight to that, they haven't even met before, and Neko is apparently the superior fighter, so it's just a random fight that would (1) waste the reason Perospero is in Onigashima in the first place, and (2) carry no meaning full conclusion. "Oh, Neko won!" And... so what? What's the point? Perospero was brought to the arc just to be beaten by a clearly stronger hero and do nothing of importance? Meanwhile, Carrot, the character that actually witnessed Pedro's death and carried his last words, is meant to just be sidelined and cry? It's not going to happen.
Eh…Zou says different.
Neko was literally the one who sent Pedro on the mission that led to his death. In fact, he only sent Pedro when all the other Minks volunteered to go as well. He definitely feels responsible for Pedro dying, so if Carrot is too weak to avenge Pedro, Neko is the only other one with any narrative weight to it.
I don't get why people doubt the Dukes so much. Inu can't beat Jack even though they were equals on Zou. Neko can't beat Perospero for reasons. Perospero has some other role to play with the Big Mom pirates, but getting beat by Neko is a perfectly satisfying conclusion.
@Zik:
Is it really hate for Carrot? Or just plain keeping it real about how things currently are?
If anything seems like there's more annoyance with Carrot supporters and some ridiculous arguments in favor of her.
If every secondary character got this sort of incessant push there'd be some negativity aimed that way as well.
This sums it up perfectly. Lately I feel like I'm going insane in this thread that I avoid it because it just gets derailed by people talking in circles. Every month I can expect new plot and revelations for arguments for why Yamato is going to join, or criticism why not. Yamato is engaging to discuss. But no, we need to discuss this one character who hasn't had a new plot point in nearly six months.
Carrot fans are still arguing the same points they've been arguing for years, expecting that THIS is the time they finally convince us about their headcanon, that THIS is the time Carrot's narrative will shine. It feels like insanity at this point. And now some of those same people are literally gaslighting the rest of us that they're not doing anything bad, we're the ones wrong and we hate Carrot if we don't want her to be a strawhat. No, I don't hate Carrot just because you say so.
We really doing the blame game here? Let me try and get the logic down.
Kinemon’s dead, and if Yamato didn’t leave, he could have stayed and protected everyone! So it’s his fault for not following Luffy’s orders!
Except, why did he leave? Luffy was fighting 1v1 against Kaido. Kaido should have still been on the roof when Yamato left Momo, but he wasn’t because Luffy failed. If Luffy hadn’t failed, Kaido wouldn’t have left the roof and wouldn’t have killed Kinemon. So it’s actually Luffy’s fault that Kinemon’s dead.
But why was Luffy alone on the roof? Law was there and left. Kaido wouldn't have left if Law was still up on the roof. He should have stayed so it wasn’t a 1v1, so it’s Law’s fault Kinemon’s dead.
But Law could have left if Kid had stayed. Kid abandoned them all on the roof, so it’s Kid’s fault Kinemon is dead.
Except Kid left to stall Big Mom. Why is Big Mom on the island? Because Luffy invaded her territory to get Sanji back. Sanji left to keep the strawhats out of trouble or else Luffy wouldn’t have had to rescue him. So it’s Sanji’s fault Kinemon’s dead.
But why was Sanji even in this mess? It was Judge pulling the strings, so Judge is the reason Kinemon is dead.
All the while Kinemon was safe on Zou and Wano. The only reason Luffy was able to make it to Wano was because Pedro sacrificed himself to allow their escape. If Luffy had died in WCI, Kinemon would have been captured much earlier in Wano, so it’s Pedro’s fault that Kinemon is dead on Onigashima.
But why did Pedro sacrifice himself? Because that damned Perospero was following them! It’s all the candy man’s fault. If I know anything of revenge in One Piece, all roads go back to Perospero, the true mastermind of the series.
Oh, but it's different for Yamato because he was given an order, which he fulfilled. Without Yamato, Momo would in fact be dead. Sasaki would have killed him. Luffy would consider that mission complete.
Honestly, if you stop at any point in this and place blame, it shows your personal bias. You place a blame somewhere on someone because you want to place blame on them. The plot is far to intricate and unpredictable that you cannot place blame on any one individual. Luffy sure as hell isn’t going to. End of the day only one person is responsible for Kinemon’s death: Kaido. Just as there is one person responsible for Pedro's death: Pedro. To argue anything else is to, in fact, perform mental gymnastics to justify your own bias.
If Oda had plans for Yamato, there would be a few signs of it by now. There haven't. There's no bigger hidden story being developed here, Yamato is what he appears to be.
Wait, are you legit being dismissive of all of Yamato’s plot threads, or are you trolling? You said you weren't feeling well lately so I'm curious.
Yamato, who:
Now, I hear the rebuttal: We already have the answers to that. Yamato is just a derivative of Oden/Ace/Kaido/whoever else I can make a flimsy connection to!
True, we have learned the following:
That is a shit ton of mystery Oda has set up in this 30 chapters where you argue “nothing happened.” Some of them, like the hannya mask, could just be a visual thing that already served its purpose, but to think ALL these mysteries are solved? Nowhere close. For example, I personally don’t care what Oda does about why Kuma is a cyborg now or what Carrot will do with the dawn plot, but I’m not so obtuse as to say that Oda isn’t setting up those mysteries. I mean hell, Carrot, the only other legitimate contender for the next crewmate, didn’t get that personality until the end of WCI. And that's the only personality/mystery she has.
And hell, I thought Law was boring AF until the end of Dressrosa when we got his flashback. I could easily make the same argument that Dressora dragged on because of Law, he’s preventing other characters like Robin from shining, the narrative would be so much tighter without Law in the story. Then Corazon came and fuck, Law made Dressrosa great and it wouldn’t be the same without him. Trust in Oda to do the same for Yamato, because he’s clearly setting it up that way.
At least post the full panel, not a cropped, cherry-picked version to make us draw false conclusions.
All the strawhats are speaking to Luffy. Carrot is speaking to Pedro. Not comparable. Sure, Carrot could have that heart-to-heart with Luffy, but it hasn't happened, and it probably won't unless Luffy takes an interest in Perospero. Or Carrot aims for Kaido for some strange reason.
Eh, Oda is probably building up to some hijinks during the end party. Everyone congratulates Luffy on his win, then Luffy announces to the crew that "This is Yamato, Kaido's son. He's coming with us." Que everyone getting Enel-face and freaking out. That won't work if the crew is acquainted with Yamato already and know he's on their side. Nami, Usopp, and Chopper having the best reactions of the bunch.
No new crewmate NEEDS interaction with the crew before joining. Look at Brook. Luffy asked him to join to everyone's surprise before anyone had really interacted with him. This was even repeated during the party after Thriller Bark. Oda loves his hijinks at the crew's expense.
Regardless, Kaido is now fully aware of Yamato's desire to sail with Luffy, so when Luffy makes it back, you can be sure it'll be a talking point when Kaido asks what Luffy did to his son.