Why Did Roger Leave the Grand Line?

FireFistAce 0

I just realized something.

Look at the map that Buggy's holding:

http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-3/volume3.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=516

A map like that is impossible on the Grand Line because it's impossible to tell exact location between islands without a compass. Furthermore, pinpointing the location of a sunken treasure is impossible without both a compass and a tool for measuring distance.

Which begs the question, why did Roger and crew leave the Grand Line? Buggy and Shanks look about 16, and they're both 38, so this flashback is close to the time when Roger reached Raftel and was executed.

Here's more evidence:

< <lookout: enemy="" ship="" to="" the="" north-northeast!!<br="">Also impossible on the Grand Line. The best you could do is using naval terms, such as Port bow, Starboard Bow, Port stern, Starboard stern, etc. Or clock directions in relation to the direction the ship is facing (1 O'clock, 12 O'clock, etc.).

So what were the Gold Pirates doing outside of the Grand Line? Obtaining information? It seems they already have capable crewmembers. Maybe Roger was meeting a contact, or perhaps stopping by somewhere to see someone…

But yeah...</lookout:>

MAcobo

Southbirds? >_>

Angel emfrbl

Shanks is 37. He was 15 when Roger died. Just to correct you on that….

... I have no ideas on that thoery right now though for why they were outside the GL. :(

Edit:

According to one of the SBS (which one... I can't remember) you can use islands to tell the direction, its simply when your at sea with nothing to go by that you get lost on the GL. Oda was explaining how Nami knew which direction they were sail into... I think when they left Little Garden or Drum Island.

ChopChopCannon

Perhaps he left because he knew Lvneel was going to spring up eventually?

(Little in-joke between me and Fire Fist Ace…)

Seriously though, maybe he left because he was sick of the amount of marines on the Grand Line, plus Enies Lobby was probably still there when he was alive, so.....

Smoker

I think because he wants to die, to make the entire world know the truth about 100 lost years ( by pushing they to the sea with the excuse of treasure )

ChopChopCannon

@Smoker:

I think because he wants to die, to make the entire world know the truth about 100 lost years ( by pushing they to the sea with the excuse of treasure )

That's…..

......a surprisingly good theory. But then, couldn't he have just preached the True History to those he met on the Grand Line?

HitsugayaToushiro1191

@ChopChopCannon:

That's…..

......a surprisingly good theory. But then, couldn't he have just preached the True History to those he met on the Grand Line?

Cause for the most part, people hated him and probably wouldn't trust that. Seeing as to how greedy people are, they'd chase after treasure.

stephen

The painfully obvious answer is that Oda hadn't planned out any of this by Volume 3, and he simply drew a generic-looking map.

Skymo

Well the "Oda didnt planed this" theory its more likely..

and of topic if buggy and shanks were in roger crew they most know how to get to skypea maybe they know the other route the dangerous one!

gain

even if Oda didn't think of it at the time, a good writer will incorporate what has been established into the future of the series… besides, from interviews and sbs', Oda seems very thorough and i thnk there's at most a 50% chance he just drew the map arbitrarily (we are also all assuming that the map buggy had wasn't flawed in itself)

Ms. Suave Debonair

You have no concrete proof that he left the Grandline, even if he did what does it really matter? The Grandline is just another sea in the world. The only reason pirates attempt to navigate it is to get the 'One Piece', which wasn't what Roger was after, seeing as it was his anyway.

Tongari

Er, is it said anywhere that that map has to be of the Grand Line? I mean, even if they were on the GL at the time, I'm sure there's no law against carrying a map of, say, West Blue with you (and even if there were, pirates would do it anyway if they felt like it, they're not the most law-abiding of people).

In any case, if Roger sailed the Grand Line through and found nothing all that interesting (or even if he used Raftel to store his treasure, of which we have no real proof), he might have just popped to each of the Blues at some point. Since when does a Pirate King need a reason for going somewhere other than he feels like going? Besides, Grand Line wasn't the ultimate destination it is now, as it wasn't the assumed hiding place of One Piece.

Though you're probably just giving this way more thought than Oda ever did (as am I); that map is just a plot device. I'm far more intrigued about the map of Grand Line that Buggy had and Nami stole;that's the one that ought to be impossible but apparently isn't.

(For the record, I just realized the significange of Buggy saying he's looking forward to going to the Grand Line again as he leaves Loguetown)

the clicky pen

Man, I know it's been said, but I think it's time we ease up on this whole connecting the dots stuff, 'cause the thing about it is, you can't connect every dot to every other dot, or else you end up with a big scribbly mess.

Masta D.

Roger was executed at Roguetown.

Luffy is from East Blue.

So are Buggy and Shanks.

Roguetown is in East Blue.

Luffy started his journey in East Blue.

My theory: Roger hadn't reached the Grandline yet in that flash-back and was still in East Blue. Either that, or the whole scene is just a plot device, and as Stephen said:
"The painfully obvious answer is that Oda hadn't planned out any of this by Volume 3, and he simply drew a generic-looking map."

Ms. Suave Debonair

@Masta:

Roger was executed at Roguetown.

Luffy is from East Blue.

So are Buggy and Shanks.

Roguetown is in East Blue.

Luffy started his journey in East Blue.

My theory: Roger hadn't reached the Grandline yet in that flash-back and was still in East Blue. Either that, or the whole scene is just a plot device

It hasn't been stated where Buggy is from yet but Shanks is actually from West Blue, based on comments made about the booze he gives to Whitebeard..

@Chapter:

Whitebeard: Yeah… no war for now...
Give us some privacy.
This is West Blue liquor...
Bet it's not very good.

Shanks: I've been around the world... but there ain't nothing like booze made from water cold enough to freeze the skin.
It's a drink from my hometown. Hope you enjoy it!!

@Masta:

and as Stephen said:
"The painfully obvious answer is that Oda hadn't planned out any of this by Volume 3, and he simply drew a generic-looking map."

Agreed.
As good as Oda is at foreshadowing, I doubt he was trying to say anything with this map. People really are looking into things too much, in the hope of getting answers that probably just won't appear.

If you also look at it, the map looks very much like a real World map, with Europe and Africa clearly visable..

ONEinchPUNCH

@stephen:

The painfully obvious answer is that Oda hadn't planned out any of this by Volume 3, and he simply drew a generic-looking map.

This is most likely the answer, even though i really like the theory that has been brought up. I think we've just got to accept all writers make misktakes.

ChopChopCannon

@HitsugayaToushiro1191:

Cause for the most part, people hated him and probably wouldn't trust that. Seeing as to how greedy people are, they'd chase after treasure.

Oh, come on. Surely there were some people back then who admired him.

Desperado

never mind need recheck

theleoandtherat

Roger left the grand line to be executed at Roguetown.

Most likely he was catch him in the grand line and just executed him at a poplated area at the start of the grand line to stop people from entering it as pirates. Or did the marin know this would start a push for a new pirates age to put atien on pirates and not the world gov't actions….

This make me think that maybe Gol D. Roger is still alive, that wasn't him that was ececuted. The person was smiling because he wasn't really killed.

lpzie

@stephen:

The painfully obvious answer is that Oda hadn't planned out any of this by Volume 3, and he simply drew a generic-looking map.

This is absolutely true, I should know, I share a mind link with Oda.

boiga

I'll repost my old theory on this one.

After sailing around the world, Roger sails to east blue. The reason for this is that Roger had heard that his daughter was going to be married to Monkey D. Dragon, a promising young marine officer. He and Garp both attend the marriage of their offspring without raising their weapons in deference to the ceremony.

After getting drunk together in the reception, garp convinces roger he will not be able to stop the WG from exploiting the happy couple's relationship to him. If roger does not turn himself in to the authorities, the WG will hound Dragon and Roger's daughter for the rest of their lives. Roger agrees and for teh sake of his daughters happiness offers to have Garp (or possibly Dragon) capture him in return for letting his crew go free.

Roger turns himself in after bequesting the secret of the void century to his new son in law, Dragon. Garp forlornly escorts roger to the nearest marine base, Loguetown, where Roger incites the Age of Pirates and the search for One Piece and dies.

Because of the knowledge gained about the void century and the injustice of the actions of the WG, Dragon begins his revolutionary crusade after fathering Ace and Luffy, who are raised in anonymity.

This theory explains how the strongest man on the planet could be captured, why buggy and shanks began their careers as pirate captains in east blue, why the son of a devout marine would turn revolutionary despite having a good relationship with his father (they keep in touch after all), and a couple of other odds and ends.

I'm really looking forward to meeting Luffy's mom, assuming that she didn't die as further provocation for Dragon turning against the WG.

I don't know of any evidence yet available that directly contradicts this theory, but as of yet it is still just speculation.

freedom

nice theory :)
sixteen.

@boiga:

I'll repost my old theory on this one.

After sailing around the world, Roger sails to east blue. The reason for this is that Roger had heard that his daughter was going to be married to Monkey D. Dragon, a promising young marine officer. He and Garp both attend the marriage of their offspring without raising their weapons in deference to the ceremony.

After getting drunk together in the reception, garp convinces roger he will not be able to stop the WG from exploiting the happy couple's relationship to him. If roger does not turn himself in to the authorities, the WG will hound Dragon and Roger's daughter for the rest of their lives. Roger agrees and for teh sake of his daughters happiness offers to have Garp (or possibly Dragon) capture him in return for letting his crew go free.

Roger turns himself in after bequesting the secret of the void century to his new son in law, Dragon. Garp forlornly escorts roger to the nearest marine base, Loguetown, where Roger incites the Age of Pirates and the search for One Piece and dies.

Because of the knowledge gained about the void century and the injustice of the actions of the WG, Dragon begins his revolutionary crusade after fathering Ace and Luffy, who are raised in anonymity.

This theory explains how the strongest man on the planet could be captured, why buggy and shanks began their careers as pirate captains in east blue, why the son of a devout marine would turn revolutionary despite having a good relationship with his father (they keep in touch after all), and a couple of other odds and ends.

I'm really looking forward to meeting Luffy's mom, assuming that she didn't die as further provocation for Dragon turning against the WG.

I don't know of any evidence yet available that directly contradicts this theory, but as of yet it is still just speculation.

nice theory. only fault is when garp is first introduced, robin never said anything about garp capturing roger and robin is very knowledgeble. she should kno if garph caught roger or not. also if garp did capture roger, he would be an admiral not a vice admiral. Same goes for Dragon. He must have been a notable marine if he ever was a marine therefore when anyone in the WG, Robin, or etc mentioned Dragon, they probably would have mentioned him betrayin the marines.

gqjive

@boiga:

I'll repost my old theory on this one.

After sailing around the world, Roger sails to east blue. The reason for this is that Roger had heard that his daughter was going to be married to Monkey D. Dragon, a promising young marine officer. He and Garp both attend the marriage of their offspring without raising their weapons in deference to the ceremony.

After getting drunk together in the reception, garp convinces roger he will not be able to stop the WG from exploiting the happy couple's relationship to him. If roger does not turn himself in to the authorities, the WG will hound Dragon and Roger's daughter for the rest of their lives. Roger agrees and for teh sake of his daughters happiness offers to have Garp (or possibly Dragon) capture him in return for letting his crew go free.

Roger turns himself in after bequesting the secret of the void century to his new son in law, Dragon. Garp forlornly escorts roger to the nearest marine base, Loguetown, where Roger incites the Age of Pirates and the search for One Piece and dies.

Because of the knowledge gained about the void century and the injustice of the actions of the WG, Dragon begins his revolutionary crusade after fathering Ace and Luffy, who are raised in anonymity.

This theory explains how the strongest man on the planet could be captured, why buggy and shanks began their careers as pirate captains in east blue, why the son of a devout marine would turn revolutionary despite having a good relationship with his father (they keep in touch after all), and a couple of other odds and ends.

I'm really looking forward to meeting Luffy's mom, assuming that she didn't die as further provocation for Dragon turning against the WG.

I don't know of any evidence yet available that directly contradicts this theory, but as of yet it is still just speculation.

This is a great theory. It also answers my question as to why they did not also capture/execute Shanks and Buggy at Loguetown. Since they are accomplices of Roger and seeing as how the WG wants to kill all associated with Roger (ie Tom), i was always wondering why nothing happened to Shanks and Buggy.

gqjive

@ikillzu:

nice theory. only fault is when garp is first introduced, robin never said anything about garp capturing roger and robin is very knowledgeble. she should kno if garph caught roger or not. also if garp did capture roger, he would be an admiral not a vice admiral. Same goes for Dragon. He must have been a notable marine if he ever was a marine therefore when anyone in the WG, Robin, or etc mentioned Dragon, they probably would have mentioned him betrayin the marines.

1. It was state that Garp was the one who "cornered" Roger.
2. There may be other reasons as to why Garp is not an Admiral.
3. Only person to really mention Dragon is Garp. Other mentionings of him may not have said this, but maybe Oda is saving that as a big surprise near the end of the manga.
4. Robin was still very young when Roger was executed, so why does she necessarily have to know about Dragon or his ranks in the marines. Dragon may have left the marines long before the Ohara incident.

P.S. This is an interesting thread, but it seems as if people rather post about Luffy Vs Zoro

Impel Down

The WG talked about Dragon too, 'cause he's the "World's Most Dangerous Man"

Angel emfrbl

Yrs but as Robin stated, Dragon is a mysterious guy and no one knows anything about Dragon… Until Garp mentioned the relationships.

Kirin D. Cross

The same question can be said for Shanks, Possibly GR was from there and wanted to revisit. OR mabye just a possibility Roger had a fleet of ships and buggy and shanks were just on one of those fleets?

Impel Down

Well, he probably left the GL so he could build a crew, and he had to see Roger's execution.

boiga

@Kirin:

The same question can be said for Shanks, Possibly GR was from there and wanted to revisit. OR mabye just a possibility Roger had a fleet of ships and buggy and shanks were just on one of those fleets?

Considering that neither shanks nor whitebeard seem to have a fleet of ships, I find it unlikely that Gold Roger had a fleet. The number of followers doesn't matter in One Piece, just the strength of those nakama.

I think the evidence shows that Roger was captured in East Blue.

-Garp who "cornered" Gol D. Roger is headquartered there. (He raises his grandchildren there, and is in east blue at the beginning of the series)
-Roger was executed in East Blue. If he had been captured in the Grand Line, why not just take him to the Marine Headquarters?
-The evidence given by the original poster of this thread.

If Roger was caught in East Blue, then it stands to reason that his crew would be stranded there. The Grand Line is not an easy place to enter without a strong crew.

So, Buggy and Shanks both begin their careers as pirate captains in the East Blue. Buggy seems to stagnate and only brings in some fairly lousy followers. Shanks, the more capable of the two, sticks around in the east blue despite having brought together an extremely capable force in order to mentor luffy a bit.

The fact that Red Haired Shanks, a future Yonkou chose Luffy and Ace's home town as his base is either blatant abuse of circumstance and deus ex machina or has to do with the "Will of D" and his comments about luffy being the "next generation." My personal impression is that Shanks chose that island because he recognized that Luffy is Roger's grandson. But that's another thread.

Impel Down

Was Shanks ever friends with Ace, or just Luffy?

Angel emfrbl

Hmm… Both Roger and Whitebeard are Grand Line pirates... I just think they choose Logue Town as his final place as an example to his hometown not to try something like this guy did or a request from Roger himself.

I think back to Shanks comment to Beckman as they left about Luffy being just like him. If Shanks was like Luffy as a kid, then Shanks guessed Luffy would go up to be like him. Since Shanks is a powerful pirate his logic was = Luffy would be powerful two. Simple as that I think.

As for Ace... Why is Shanks admiring one brother and doubting the actions and strength of another. Does Shanks know about the relationship even, Ace was not with Luffy to say goodbye to Shanks at the docks that day his crew left whereas the rest of the village was.

Impel Down

Well, let's think on the level of other pirates: Why did Arlong leave the GL?

Nauykuyr

Why would he need to leave permanently? They might've just been making a short trip. Where he was executed has little bearing on where he wanted to be. Also just because a powerful pirate goes to the grand line doesn't make it their home. Most of the non natives are there to achieve their goals, not to live there. There's way too little information to understand Roger's intentions yet.

It's also confusing how simple his transportation was when being executed. His bondage seems to just be wooden block cuffs. When I learned about the seastone cuffs, I thought maybe Roger had some on, but it doesn't seem like it. I'd have to agree that there's probably some coercion for Roger not to escape.

Impel Down

Maybe Gol D. left so he could go to the North Blue to do Sanji's mom! Sanji is Roger's son!

Has anyone thought of the fact the Gol D. Roger let himself get caught and killed. I mean he was the most powerful man in the world and had the greatest treasure as well. Could the World Government really have beaten him? And as he is sitting on the execution platform ,as strong as he was, he could have most likey escaped or have his crew save him(it's also likley that most of them were incredibly powerful too). I think that Roger let himself get killed so he could set something off that would change the world. The only option I can see is if Roger was in some sort of position that Robin was in, though I have no clue what Roger would give up his life for.

(Oh, first post after joining here. Yay me!)

Nauykuyr

@Fire Fist:

Which begs the question, why did Roger and crew leave the Grand Line? Buggy and Shanks look about 16, and they're both 38, so this flashback is close to the time when Roger reached Raftel and was executed.

Actually, I realized it probably happened before they reached the Grand Line. They were both pirates in training at that time.

Reasoning about why they probably hadn't reached the Grand Line during the Buggy DF flashback:

They didn't know much about DF
If they were trainees, it means Roger had recently picked them up (in one of the Blues, probably West)
During the Roger execution flashback, their clothing and faces are completely different

nickel56

I agree with many above that it's definitely odd for a legendary Roger to be caught and excuted so easily, and there doesn't seem to be any struggles.
Well, probably that's just how a great man thinks, which we can only guess. Perhaps it's something like he had already accomplished whatever he set out to do, so he was okay with ending his life soon anyway. (You know, like how those great people always feel lonely when they're at the top of the world without any challengers) And maybe one of his dreams was to spread on the pirates-thing, so what better way than to use the moment before his execution (where there's a large crowd as witnesses) to mention the One Piece to tempt everyone else.

Angel emfrbl

I'm waiting to hear more about that Buggy + Shanks flashback. Whenever we see a one frame grey flashback it usually means some point in the future we'll get the full version.