@Superstar: A fight in the desert can be compared to a fight in the rain.
That is why I said situations should NEVER be used in a battle. It is one's skills vs. the other, with that said Lucci loses to Crocodile.
@Superstar: A fight in the desert can be compared to a fight in the rain.
That is why I said situations should NEVER be used in a battle. It is one's skills vs. the other, with that said Lucci loses to Crocodile.
Yeah, but with water he win.
Go a page further and you'll see that the leader pig guy had all the water absorbed from him. The rest of the crew were just instantly killed.
Hmm. That's kind of confusing. Wouldn't the sandstorm absorb the liquid out of the body of the dead people? What I got from you is that the Sandstorm not only crushes things but also absorb the liquid. And why is Toto not dead? The sandstorm hit him more than once he was fine. I think that the pig captain just survived the sandstorm and Croc absorbed him later.
Please, do not do that. I have been fighting a three day debate with a guy who doesn't have any evidence but claims he is right. Crocodile likes to torture Toto, so he sends sandstorms. When he fought the pig pirates it was a public showing that he is protecting the people of Alabasta. He clearly did not move any part of his body except his left arm. When the sandstorm ended, the pig captain was dead. Crocodile just stood there. He didn't move.
That is why I said situations should NEVER be used in a battle. It is one's skills vs. the other, with that said Lucci loses to Crocodile.
In a fight, the environment is always used. That's just how it is. And we're talking One Piece, where it always happens.
Lucci has more raw power than Crocodile, is around the same level as intelligence as him and a lot faster then him. Crocodile has his logia, which proves handy.
In terms of skill, Lucci wins… he's an assassin... he needs skill more than anyone to do his job. His fighting skill is much more complex than Crocodile aswell. So in terms of skill and power... Lucci is superior, because he most likely has higher stats. If Crocodile didn't have his logia... Lucci would flick him away... it's that simple. But Crocodile has his ability, so...
In a place with no water, Crocodile would have the edge. Lucci could get away or dodge all attacks using his speed; but it is very likely that Lucci may lose, unless he bleeds like crazy and uses that... then he has a chance.
But in a place that has water near it... (and that's a lot of places in the One Piece world)... then Lucci would win, easily.
Please, do not do that. I have been fighting a three day debate with a guy who doesn't have any evidence but claims he is right.
Is this addressed to me?
Crocodile likes to torture Toto, so he sends sandstorms.
So Croc can control if he wants to add add ground secco into it?
When he fought the pig pirates it was a public showing that he is protecting the people of Alabasta. He clearly did not move any part of his body except his left arm. When the sandstorm ended, the pig captain was dead. Crocodile just stood there. He didn't move.
This is manga and they don't show every moves that are made. That's why some people like to watch the anime since they don't understand every move. The pig pirate fight was only to show how strong Croc is. Also,this still doesn't explain why the other pirates weren't dehydrated. Also, Croc never used a sandstorm against Luffy that absorbed his liquid. Here's the proof:
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/onepiecechapter200.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3890
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/onepiecechapter200.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3891
Croc wasn't joking with Luffy. He tried to get rid of him as fast as possible. So why did he bother to use Ground Secco afterwards if he can mix it with his sandstorm? Maybe because he can't do it.
@$abZ:
In a fight, the environment is always used. That's just how it is. And we're talking One Piece, where it always happens. Lucci has more raw power than Crocodile, is around the same level as intelligence as him and a lot faster then him. Crocodile has his logia, which proves handy.
In terms of skill, Lucci wins… he's an assassin... he needs skill more than anyone to do his job. His fighting skill is much more complex than Crocodile aswell. So in terms of skill and power… Lucci is superior, because he most likely has higher stats. If Crocodile didn't have his logia… Lucci would flick him away… it's that simple. But Crocodile has his ability, so…In a place with no water, Crocodile would have the edge. Lucci could get away or dodge all attacks using his speed; but it is very likely that Lucci may lose, unless he bleeds like crazy and uses that... then he has a chance. But in a place that has water near it... (and that's a lot of places in the One Piece world)... then Lucci would win, easily.
No, in a fight the characters OWN might is used. Lucci's "Six Forms" can't do ANYTHING to Crocodile. Using "if's" or "buts" to support your argument shows how desperate you are for Lucci.
Crocodile > Lucci.
Crocodile can control his attacks, he's a master of his DF power. When he was fighting Luffy, he was shocked as this was probably the first time he has been hist in a very long time, so he wasn't always thinking straight. Go to episode 92, and that will show the same scene in animation.
Unless their fighting on a river and there are splashes of water actualy hitting croc, lucci won't win. He needs to be soaked or have the knowledge of croc being weak against it.
Lucci isn't exactly going to throw water on his enemy for no reason, so unless some sort of a fluke happens. Like lucci falling in the water or if lucci pulls out his super soaker for a bit of fun.
If they fight anywhere at least 20 metres away from water croc is going to win. If lucci is soaked or knows croc's weakness he will win, it's as simple as that.
And one more thing lucci isn't as intelligent as croc, croc almost took over alabasta with his cunning plan. Only robin and a few others are on croc's intelligence level.
You can't deny that Lucci is stronger in general strength and faster. In intelligence… Lucci isn't stupid. All Lucci needs is water, and he would soak himself if he knew Crocodile's weakness (if Luffy figured it out, Lucci could, because Lucci is more intelligent)... then he wins. Simple as.
Luffy and Lucci fight the same way... hand-to-hand combat. Lucci is a stronger version of Luffy in Arabasta. Luffy beat Crocodile... then Lucci could.
You'd be a fool to think that the environment isn't used in a fight. Crocodile used the desert as his advantage.
Crocodile's main strength is his logia... not his raw strength or speed.
Crocodile can control his attacks, he's a master of his DF power. When he was fighting Luffy, he was shocked as this was probably the first time he has been hist in a very long time, so he wasn't always thinking straight. Go to episode 92, and that will show the same scene in animation.
If you look at their second fight, Croc was controlling the whole fight. The first time he got punched, he panicked a bit and then began to laugh. He wasn't shocked at that moment. That he was not thinking straight is speculation on your side.
@$abZ:
You can't deny that Lucci is stronger in general strength and faster. In intelligence… Lucci isn't stupid. All Lucci needs is water, and he would soak himself if he knew Crocodile's weakness (if Luffy figured it out, Lucci could, because Lucci is more intelligent)… then he wins. Simple as.
Luffy only found out when he lost (or when he should have died) water happened to drip on croc. If not for outside inteference luffy would be dead, so luffy never found out during the fight. If not for his stupidity of having water around his neck he would have never found out.
Lucci would attack like any other enemy and his attacks would be ineffective, croc would then dehydrate him and it's over. I don't see why he would suddenly think " I know!! I'll get some water".
Being smarter doesn't always works since a smart guy wouldn't have water around his neck in a fight.If he survived and had a chance to rethink his attack then maybe he'd figure out a way, but it's still extremely slim at best.
Luffy and Lucci fight the same way… hand-to-hand combat. Lucci is a stronger version of Luffy in Arabasta. Luffy beat Crocodile... then Lucci could.
With water he'd win
You'd be a fool to think that the environment isn't used in a fight. Crocodile used the desert as his advantage.
But unless that enviroment is water it would be useless and I doubt croc would fight on a river or the seaside.
Thinking that Lucci would or wouldn't know the weakness is all speculation. But what is fact is that Lucci is intelligent.
Lucci could escape using his incredible speed, and soak himself. Or if they're fighting on the sea, then it'd be easy.
What I'm saying is that in general attributes, Lucci is far superior.
I think that OIP post pretty much sums everything up.
There is no point in debating a fight like this because if lucci has a liquid he wins and if he doesn't he loses.
If there were no liquid lucci would just use soru then shigan, he'd then be shocked when croc grabs his ineffective shigan and dehydrates him.
If there were liquid croc would be stabbed and would begin to lose the fight since his main advantage is gone.
Ronaldinho is righjt about one thing mihawk is leagues ahead of them all.
With water Lucci would win
Without water Croc would win
the debate whether Lucci is smart enough or if the WG knows the weakness and the environment of the fight is pure speculation and can go either way.
@$abZ:
Thinking that Lucci would or wouldn't know the weakness is all speculation. But what is fact is that Lucci is intelligent.
Well he can't know croc's weakness if he did the 3 great powers wouldn't be equal since lucci is part of the WG. Also if Lucci knew he would probably be a shichibukai, so it's safe to assume croc's little secret is a secret.
Lucci could escape using his incredible speed, and soak himself. Or if they're fighting on the sea, then it'd be easy.
When character fight someone who's a logia their always suprised when their hit doesn't connect. Within that instant croc would grab and dehydrate lucci, dont forget croc's incredible durability and pretty good fighting techniques.
What I'm saying is that in general attributes, Lucci is far superior.
Apart from intelligence, croc's intelligence is one of the best so far
I think that OIP post pretty much sums everything up.
With water Lucci would win
Without water Croc would win
Yep that pretty much sums it up
the debate whether Lucci is smart enough or if the WG knows the weakness and the environment of the fight is pure speculation and can go either way.
I still highly doubt the WG know because if they did the powers wouldn't be equal
If you look at their second fight, Croc was controlling the whole fight. The first time he got punched, he panicked a bit and then began to laugh. He wasn't shocked at that moment. That he was not thinking straight is speculation on your side.
Did you see how angry he got while fighting Luffy? A Shichibukai shouldn't be getting that angry with someone with a 30 mill. title. It's not speculation but an observation. Anyway, it shows(Ep. 92) Crocodile using the sandstorm to dry up the pig leader. …
Did you see how angry he got while fighting Luffy? A Shichibukai shouldn't be getting that angry with someone with a 30 mill. title. It's not speculation but an observation. Anyway, it shows(Ep. 92) Crocodile using the sandstorm to dry up the pig leader. …
The pig fight could be interpreted either way. I think that Croc just dried him usually. Croc was totally relaxed when he fought Luffy. He got angry after Luffy drank all the water and he used the sandstorm attack before Luffy drank the water.
Here is another proof:
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/onepiecechapter209.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4057
that was Croc's final attack with his sandstorm. I wonder why it didn't dry Luffy and so gave him the opportunity to beat him. If he really can combine it, then Luffy would be dead. I think I said enough. You don't have a proof that Croc's sandstorm can dry other people. You only argument is the pig fight that can be interpreted either way. I showed you 2 pics from the manga that you can't deny them as facts.
I thought we established that Bounties don't necessarily represent strength. Merely the amount of willpower to challenge the government.
Lucci can use Soru, I'm pretty sure he can outrun a Sandstorm.
Also, if they're fighting in Alabasta, where Croc has the advantage, it would be blaringly hot, and if we assume Lucci is going all out, (which we have to), then he'd be in his zoan state. Lucci is then furry, making him more prone to sweat due to his further insulation caused by the fur. This could gradually amount to Lucci sweating like hell.
Lucci could beat Croc using the 4kids way.
(This is the first and last time I will use a 4kids edit to make a point)
((And I'm probably going to get flamed for it))
I was just stating that a Shichibukai, at first glance, wouldn't have even bothered to think that someone of 30 mill. would be a threat.
(I wasn't ignoring your posts. When I said that Crocodile is a master of his DF powers, I was just saying that he can choose whether to absorb or not. Anyway…)
Crocodile was surprised many times. Here are examples...
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/onepiecechapter199.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3873
Of course this is when Luffy 1st arrives so it is obvious that he would be surprised.
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/onepiecechapter200.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3889
Again, Crocodile is surprised. He could have turned into sand, but he was too shocked to think about that.
Of course, Croc is surprised when Luffy shoots water at him, and when Luffy shows up again, and when Luffy hits him with no water. The point I'm making is that Crocodile was very angry and wasn't calm and relaxed as he usually is.
I was just stating that a Shichibukai, at first glance, wouldn't have even bothered to think that someone of 30 mill. would be a threat.
(I wasn't ignoring your posts. When I said that Crocodile is a master of his DF powers, I was just saying that he can choose whether to absorb or not. Anyway…)
Crocodile was surprised many times. Here are examples...
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/onepiecechapter199.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3873
Of course this is when Luffy 1st arrives so it is obvious that he would be surprised.
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/onepiecechapter200.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3889
Again, Crocodile is surprised. He could have turned into sand, but he was too shocked to think about that.Of course, Croc is surprised when Luffy shoots water at him, and when Luffy shows up again, and when Luffy hits him with no water. The point I'm making is that Crocodile was very angry and wasn't calm and relaxed as he usually is.
No offense, but this post is pretty weak since you try to explain the physiological aspect which isn't a big argument since you can't prove that Croc messed up because he was surprised. By the way, I don't think it has to do because he was surprised, rather he can't do it. You also ignored the second half of my post, except if you claim that Croc failed to use his ground secco sandstorm because he had a headache and was distacted by a fly which happened to fly into his mouth.
Ps: the 2nd pic you posted. Croc didn't turn into sand because he was surprised. He couldn't because Luffy had water and would have punched him anyway. The only way was to avoid the attack, but since Croc's physical abilities( speed, reflex) compared to luffy are…
Well this pretty simple like Rinaldinho said,
Without water- Croc
With water- Lucci
But something that may not matter. Even if Lucci did find his weakness, how would he use it effectively? Luffy did have that giant water barrel, and after the other fights he was a bloody mess. Also considering Lucci is DF user it would be hard to find a suitable water source and an even harder way to find a way to get at least one gallon of it onto Croc. 4kids made a lame excuse too, no way anyone can sweat that much unless they run a 40 mile marathon.
4kids made a lame excuse too, no way anyone can sweat that much unless they run a 40 mile marathon.
Wait. Did I understand you right? I'm not watching the dub because it's lame but they used sweat? No wonder that Naruto is more popular than One Pice in the US.
I didn't look into it myself too much, but that's what i've heard.
With water Lucci would win
With water- Lucci
Can he used it properly? Here:
In underground site, Robin had conflinct with Croc, then she carry water to stab him! the result is, she could't win! and harmed by Croc. Is that you guy's want with Lucci? There's someone told that Lucci's inteligent=robin=Croc.
Crocodile can control his attacks, he's a master of his DF power.
INDEED!! It's true.
Crocodile's main strength is his logia… not his raw strength or speed.
Precisely: TO ABSORB LIQUID! @ONEinchPUNCH:
Luffy only found out when he lost (or when he should have died) water happened to drip on croc. If not for outside inteference luffy would be dead, so luffy never found out during the fight. If not for his stupidity of having water around his neck he would have never found out.
Lucci would attack like any other enemy and his attacks would be ineffective, croc would then dehydrate him and it's over. I don't see why he would suddenly think " I know!! I'll get some water".
Being smarter doesn't always works since a smart guy wouldn't have water around his neck in a fight.If he survived and had a chance to rethink his attack then maybe he'd figure out a way, but it's still extremely slim at best.
You're the BEST! Read guys!!
Apart from intelligence, croc's intelligence is one of the best so far
Took over a country !! How brilliant he was!
When character fight someone who's a logia their always suprised when their hit doesn't connect. Within that instant croc would grab and dehydrate lucci, dont forget croc's incredible durability and pretty good fighting techniques.
Logic and to the point!
that was Croc's final attack with his sandstorm. I wonder why it didn't dry Luffy and so gave him the opportunity to beat him. If he really can combine it, then Luffy would be dead. I think I said enough. You don't have a proof that Croc's sandstorm can dry other people. You only argument is the pig fight that can be interpreted either way. I showed you 2 pics from the manga that you can't deny them as facts.
It's Sables Pesado [Preassure] not ordinary sandstorm[Sables].
Ps: the 2nd pic you posted. Croc didn't turn into sand because he was surprised. He couldn't because Luffy had water and would have punched him anyway. The only way was to avoid the attack, but since Croc's physical abilities( speed, reflex) compared to luffy are…
Luffy's hand still wet. and Read:
Lucci would attack like any other enemy and his attacks would be ineffective, croc would then dehydrate him and it's over.
Yeup that pretty much sums it up. Robin found out because she's some kind of super genuis and Luffy found out by his first fight.
So…. you guys are pretty much just talking about Crocodile now. How many pages do you need to decide if Luffy's going to knock out a character we haven't even seen yet? ^^;