Let's get this done: Do you like Japan? Japan doesn't like you.

[Greg]

This is bound to come here. And you're bound to see this and it's bound to create this huge stir.

So like a father to son or mother to daughter talk, I'm here to give you the facts so you don't learn about them from someone else ie. The Internet.

This video has recently been garnering a LOT of attention and like many half-truths, is creating a gigantic hubbub over nothing.

Before you watch this video, please consider the following:

No context of the stores is given.

The inside of the stores are not shown.

The overwhelming majority of the shops shown are actually hostess clubs. ie. places you can go to have anything from a underage girl strapped to your arm while you imbibe spirits to candle wax dripped on your body to full on sex.

Despite having lived in Japan for a total of over a year now, I've never seen one of these signs even though they claim to have gathered these in a period of a few days.

The foreigners in Japan do not wear halos on their heads and smell of sunflowers. There are a lot of real assholes living here, especially (sadly) the military presence. Rape is not uncommon in Okinawa nor in places like Yokosuka where it's just easier to get away with. Not to mention rampaging liquored-up foreigners strong enough to lift a car. For an idea of what SOME of these people are capable of, look up Adam Palecco on Google. I went to school with him before one of his own gouged out his eyes and decapitated him in an attempt to protect himself.

The video neglects to translate any of the Japanese which in many cases says the same thing regarding yakuza or punks. Is Japan racist against its own people?

Nowhere does the video suggest that many of the hostess establishments are incredibly overpriced, a fact which is carefully hidden in many places or even when fully out in the open, isn't clear to foreigners. After just 2 hours it's possible to have $200 on your tab. This creates a HUGE problem when a highly inebriated John Doe is asked to pay such an exhoribitant amount.

Yes, it is true there are some spas which bar foreigners. But they are FAR and few between. I have NEVER come across any and since it IS a private establishment, they can damn well reject anyone they want.

Now, with the above in mind, please watch the video and draw your own conclusions.

Is the majority of Japan racist against all peoples of the world? Or are foreigners just whining bitches?

[Gon]

That slideshow was really boring.

[Anime Master]

Sorry- But we do not accept foreign customers. However we do accept foreign customers with Japanese Friends."

Wow. Sad thing is a place like this is STILL better then the US south's rascist past.
Rascism does not always mean that an entire country hates you, but rather a precentage of people. If some Japs hate foreigners, then they hate foreigners. We cant stop them. But not everyone is like that. Just remember that.

Im Anime Master and I approve this message.

[Aldrich]

I blame it on 'mericans.

[paptschik]

So what if some people don't want foreigners in their shops?
hey, I'm fat so there is billions of bars and stuff I can't get in because some guy at the entrance thinks I'm not hot/hip/whatever enough, I consider that a lot more offending than anything shown in this hardly amusing slideshow…the only funny thing about it was the "english".

[NeoShweaty]

i was in japan for about a month and went to all kinds of places and was only turned away once (from a bar and i suspect it is because we were foreigners). (although i did get shit at the bank but that is neither here nor there) Nor did i see any of these signs. However, one instance was rather poignant. I was walking out of a restaurant with some friends and a japanese guy didnt go there (he was with his wife/girlfriend) because of something that had to do with "gaijin" eating there. I mean, japan isnt exactly completely PC with its own people (people of chinese or korean descent, the ainu peoples, the burakumin, etc) but that doesnt mean foreigners are not whiners.

[Cr4zy]

Well I'm Korean, so all I have to do is learn Japanese and I'm in.

[Buuhan1]

I think its cause not everyone understands many languages and they wont be able to serve people from other countries so thats why they ask to bring a japanese friend, to translate.

Yeah, I just ripped that from the youtubes comments. But it does make sense.

[Greg]

Hmmm, it seems my explanation was lost on quite a few posters.

[Buuhan1]

I read all of it, Greg. Tho a lot of things are lost on me.

[Greg]

No I don't mean you Buu.

But people still considering that this is actually racist and not shop-keepers fearing for their business because of events that do happen all the time -_-;

Some people (foreigners) who have entered these places have actually even testified that when they begin speaking Japanese fluently, the people have no problem letting them in.

It's ultimately for the protection of the store and the foreigner.

We have "No shoes, no shirt no service" here but there isn't a big outcry ya know.

[--MRED--]

A sign that says "Foreigners not allowed"

Like fuck i'll listen

i'll just kick down the door for the hell of it
but thats because you know

im american

and angry

But seriously?
I had a japanese teacher go there, and he seemed accepted, he even went into places with signs like that and no one gave him any trouble…

[Carly]

I had an unfortunate situation of snobbery while I was in Japan, but on the whole, I think my non-threatening appearance and ability to speak the language gave off the right impression

When Japanese get all stuffy about no-foreigners-allowed, it's usually because a foreigner HAS done something stupid and created that bias in the first place, is what I notice, or otherwise it's in an area where you're very obviously the only foreigner there. So yeah.

If you want to talk to me about drunk old men hitting on foreign girls though, well, I've got that all covered.

[--MRED--]

See the thing is, if someone kicks down the door and expects to be all bad ass about…

On the other side of the door could be a old lady...
you don't feel so bad ass anymore

=(

[CosmicDebris]

Well, I suspected, and it seems to be confirmed that it's probably mostly because the owners don't speak English and I know how difficult it can be in certain types of situations. A lot of those places seemed to be brothels and strip bars and stuff…(edit: ah yes, you said that in your post too) not the kind of thing you want to have misunderstandings about.

I'm sure these places are in the minority, and I really wouldn't want to go in them anyway.

[Taleran]

So is the Subway really as bad as its portrayed?

[NeoShweaty]

@Taleran:

So is the Subway really as bad as its portrayed?

how so? the subway is great. No one acknowledges the existence of each other but it isnt bad at all

[Taleran]

oh everywhere I've seen them portrayed has them full of drug dealers and rapists

and I heard that thats a job that everyone wants to do be a subway conductor

[NeoShweaty]

@Taleran:

oh everywhere I've seen them portrayed has them full of drug dealers and rapists

_> what a wierd portrayal. That couldnt be farther from the truth.

[Taleran]

actually thats usually how subways are generally portrayed. but its usually never right, oh well.

So the point to this thread is Greg sees video about porno clubs then can't find said clubs?

[Carly]

I never saw any drug dealers and I've hit pretty much all the major cities' subways in Japan.

Stereotypes abound !

[gaara d. lucci]

I've always wanted to visit Japan some day. But I'd stand out like cool-aid stains on white t-shirts. Anything goes wrong, I'm going down. Still I hope I get to visit Japan sometime in my life if only for a short while.

[NeoShweaty]

@gaara:

I've always wanted to visit Japan some day. But I'd stand out like cool-aid stains on white t-shirts. Anything goes wrong, I'm going down. Still I hope I get to visit Japan sometime in my life if only for a short while.

um, a 6'3" latino (me) didnt exactly blend in, if you catch my drift

[gaara d. lucci]

@gilrules2000:

um, a 6'3" latino (me) didnt exactly blend in, if you catch my drift

I take it you've already been to Japan (lucky you). You got a point tho, being 6'3 is obviously a big standout. I probably won't stand out as much if I cut my hair & shave, but I'll still be quite noticable. Anyways, some how, some way, I'm going to Japan.

[GearSecond]

I too want to visit Japan one day.

I always thought it'd be wonderful. I heard people there dislike change. I am not a fan of changes myself. I get the impression alot of older traditions are still running ther,e where in most countries noone really does them anymore. Yes then I see the great technology side. Then there is the "bad" side people sometimes talk about.

[Carly]

Japan's got its ups and downs like any place. If you don't like fish or tofu expect a rough ride.

[bevin]

I'll be honest, Japan scares me a bit. I could handle a short visit, but I couldn't live there, I don't think. I could never get past the glass ceiling, the Gaijin ceiling, and a couple of cultural things that bother me, since I wasn't raised with them. The fact that I'm not a big fan of fish and I can't stand tofu doesn't help matters any. XD

[Hobo-Ou]

Not to mention rampaging liquored-up foreigners strong enough to lift a car.

I blame that more on the cars being far too small. I mean the Nissan Otti looks like a giant toy car.

Hell, I'm in Oita right now, and have never seen or run into any sort of racism or barring of foreigners. Clubs and bars welcome foreigners because they'd like to learn about where people came from or some new language. Not to mention they'll love you even more if you speak Japanese to them.

[loulou]

The Japanese are actually a very racist and sexist culture. The media there blame a lot of crime on expats (which isn't really supported by any statistics. But this could have been in the aftermath of that rape of a 12 year old by US marines in Okinawa, who knows), Korean nationals are second class citizens, so on and so forth. But I can see where these stores are coming from if they want to avoid communication difficulties, but if that was the case they should probably say "no non-Japanese speakers allowed" instead. I had a problem at a Mister Donut in Japan where the guy and I couldn't quite communicate, and it was pretty awkward.

I didn't experience any discrimination there, but I was only a teen at the time. Strangely enough, I was quite the darling among the schoolgirls there (which kinda sucked, coz I would rather have had the boys' attention), but I got a lot of presents from my female admirers before I left.

[Greg]

Korean nationals are second class citizens

This simply is not the case. I mean if that's true then…how does one explain Wada Akiko?

I was actually surprised to learn that a boy in my class is third generation Korean. He's one of the most popular boys in the school and....hardly anyone even knew he was Korean. Not that it's changed anything.

Is there anti-Korean (South obviously since it's obvious about North) sentiment? Sure. Just as about as much anti-whatever sentiment there is in the US but it would be dangerous to put all of Japan under an umbrella statement like that.

But I can see where these stores are coming from if they want to avoid communication difficulties, but if that was the case they should probably say "no non-Japanese speakers allowed" instead.

The people that run these places don't know to use such a phrase. I mean, they're not thinking about injuring the fragile ego of foreigners, they just want to run a business without any problems.

[Aldrich]

I think it's pretty clear japanese people can't be racist, afterall they like anime and they're Oda Sama's compatriots!!!! While the mericans… Bloody mericans. I blame them for it.

[loulou]

@Greg:

This simply is not the case. I mean if that's true then…how does one explain Wada Akiko?

I was actually surprised to learn that a boy in my class is third generation Korean. He's one of the most popular boys in the school and....hardly anyone even knew he was Korean. Not that it's changed anything.

Is there anti-Korean (South obviously since it's obvious about North) sentiment? Sure. Just as about as much anti-whatever sentiment there is in the US but it would be dangerous to put all of Japan under an umbrella statement like that.

The people that run these places don't know to use such a phrase. I mean, they're not thinking about injuring the fragile ego of foreigners, they just want to run a business without any problems.

shrugs well I'm not keen to get into an argument about Japanese society, since I haven't spent a great amount of time there - but I base my information on what I've been told by Japanese teachers at uni and what I've researched for a Japanese social sciences course I did, so I like to think that it has some validity.
Also, I'm not saying ALL Japanese people are racist bigots, but whereas it is seen as offensive and inappropriate by the majority in the US, it doesn't seem like racism and discrimination is seen as unacceptable behavior in Japan.

[kuropik]

I think Japanese aren’t racist. I have Japanese friends and they are very friendly and polite. But unfortunately, Korean and Japanese might still have grudge between them, because of WW 2. (although I have Korean friend who has Japanese girl )

IMHO, from what I saw in Youtube, this is not a racist discrimination. This can be seen in a plaque saying: "… However, we welcome foreign costumers ... with JAPANESE FRIENDS."

The main problem is that some foreign manners and habits could not be accepted by the Japanese, especially, when they got drunk. This could be avoided if they have Japanese companion.

I think the foreigners in Japan should pay more attention to Japanese culture. It is very unique and interesting, really.

[captain usopp]

@Carly:

When Japanese get all stuffy about no-foreigners-allowed, it's usually because a foreigner HAS done something stupid and created that bias in the first place, is what I notice, or otherwise it's in an area where you're very obviously the only foreigner there. So yeah.:

Actually, this was the point I was gonna bring up. Japanese culture is very different. They have a lot of manerisms that we might not be aware of. We might do something very rude if we don't know any better, and why should the other customers have to put up with that.

thinks of grave of the fireflies, when they eat alone, instead of with the aunt's family. Seita tells Setsoku, it's ok if she isn't kneeling on the floor properly with her feet tucked under her butt. She awuardly adjusts her position, because she was always told it was "bad" to sit like that. If I had not seen that in the movie, I wouldn't have known better. I find it uncomfy to sit like that for too long, and wouldn't think twice about sitting the "wrong" way.

As for the subways. I didn't hear about the rape thing. I wouldn't dout it though. I hear more stories about women being groped in tightly packed subway cars. I even heard a story a while ago, where they were trying out, having an all girl subway car for women. (so no dirty men can grope them)

[Greg]

I think Japanese aren’t racist.

This is also an incorrect assumption and a dangerous umbrella statement from the opposite end of the spectrum.

Of course there are Japanese individuals who are racist.

What's wrong is painting a false image about Japanese people being raist with a video that gives no contextual information.

It's like, for example, giving a history lesson about WW2 while leaving out a lesson on Japan's occupation of China. wink wink nudge nudge.

People everywhere CAN be racist. But a few signs on a few places that are easily understandable with context within a country whose population is half the US isn't the indication of such a thing.

She awuardly adjusts her position, because she was always told it was "bad" to sit like that. If I had not seen that in the movie, I wouldn't have known better.

Actually, in this day and age, Japanese people will tell and even request you not to sit the 'proper' way. They admit it can totally fuck up your joints.

[captain usopp]

WOW! see, "you learn something new every day"
that is right though, the movie is set during WW2. :)
I love learning about jap culture.

[kuropik]

@Greg:

What's wrong is painting a false image about Japanese people being raist with a video that gives no contextual information.

Your opinion claiming that Japanese are racist contradicts some facts. Why can be Japanese racist, if they adopt western culture so much?

The slides in Youtube show only side effects, if someone does not respect other people’s culture. This also happens in this forum. If you don’t have a good manner, you could be banned.

The point is: if foreigners don’t want to be discriminated, then they should respect and learn other people's culture living in that country.

[Greg]

Your opinion claiming that Japanese are racist contradicts some facts. Why can be Japanese racist, if they adopt western culture so much?

Wow. I just don't know where to begin with that.

In fact, that's so out there I can't even say anything bad because it simply sounds like you just haven't had any real world experience yet.

I guess the only thing I can suggest is that you take some introductory anth. courses and a few east asian history classes when you get to college.

I mean for starters, look where Japan got LITERALLY everything they have from. And yet they still have a hang-up on cultural purity.

Good luck with that.

[Buccaneer]

…..Haha.

Sorry for not paying much attention here, but I gotta say, living in South Florida, it gets annoying as hell dealing with people who don't speak your language or choose not to if they can. So I can understand even just having a sign warning people who can't manage the language. But even those tiny sleaze places shouldn't bust your balls for being foreign.

[Paulie]

@Buccaneer:

I gotta say, living in South Florida, it gets annoying as hell dealing with people who don't speak your language or choose not to if they can.

Amen.

I got plenty of Spanish-speaking people trying to communicate with me (horribly) when I was just living in Tampa, and I know plenty of other places have it a lot worse than there.

So I guess I can understand where the Japanese are coming from.

[loulou]

@kuropik:

Your opinion claiming that Japanese are racist contradicts some facts. Why can be Japanese racist, if they adopt western culture so much?

With regard to US/Japan relations, at the time of WW2 the Japanese had an extremely nationalist ideology happening, and they even went as far as to claim they were the "most Asian" country of the Asian continent (something along those lines), and then they were made to surrender to the US. Generally, US/Japanese relations are good but a lot of conservative and nationalistic groups in Japan never got over the war and the subsequent surrender, and a lot of them are trying to get rid of Article 9 etc.

EDIT: This might have gone off a tangent, but this post reminded me of this other person I was arguing with who said something like "Japanese are forgiving, they forgave the US over WW2," (this argument was over stolen fanart BTW). My point is, Japanese/US relations aren't that simple.

[captain usopp]

nothing with polatics is simple @_@ I try to deal with people as individuals. It's much easier. I admit to not being a big fan of the states, but AP is proof that there are a lot of nice people that live in the states.

North Korea seems to really suck right now, and my roomate is from korea. (not sure if he's from north or south, but it doesn't matter to me) My roomate is really nice. We have interesting, and geeky chats about anime. He learns a lot about the western anime industry, and I get to learn stuff about the aisan side of things.

anyways, back on topic.. ya, who cares if there are a few japanese biggots in japan or not. As long as the people I deal with make me happy, and there are places I can go that I feel welcome. Not everybody from every country is a jerk.

[Refii]

I had an experience like this in NY while waiting for a shady bus to DC. It was 4am, and everything was closed, except for one small Japanese restaurant, I knew it was Japanese because I could recognize some of the dishes on the menu in their window. The funny thing is though, everyone inside was Japanese, and the place was packed despite how early it was.

So I tried to go inside, and I had a small gym workout bag as my luggage, and they said "sorry no, no" meanwhile inside there were people with huuuuuuge luggage bags for what I could only guess was work. When I tried to explain to the lady that I was coming inside to eat breakfast, she said "no luggage."

And so I sat in the cold, hungry and with a homeless guy smoking weed asking me for change every 4 minutes, for the next 2 hours until the closest deli opened up. But I dunno, I guess I'm not hurt, but I am annoyed that this kind of thinking still goes on.

[Local-chan]

I remember something like this happening before when I went to France, of course we couldn't speak much french and you all know how tourists look when in a foreign country. Anyways, we remember trying to order stuff from the menu and the french man came over and spoke in what seemed to be a combination of french, spanish and english and told us to leave because we couldn't speak the lingo.

But yea, its something similiar, and not in Japan, just trying to show that its not just the japanese who are like that.

[NeoShweaty]

@Hobo-Ou:

I blame that more on the cars being far too small. I mean the Nissan Otti looks like a giant toy car.

Hell, I'm in Oita right now, and have never seen or run into any sort of racism or barring of foreigners. Clubs and bars welcome foreigners because they'd like to learn about where people came from or some new language. Not to mention they'll love you even more if you speak Japanese to them.

you're in oita? no way! I stayed there too. Where are you in the prefecture?

[captain usopp]

@Local-chan:

I remember something like this happening before when I went to France, of course we couldn't speak much french and you all know how tourists look when in a foreign country. Anyways, we remember trying to order stuff from the menu and the french man came over and spoke in what seemed to be a combination of french, spanish and english and told us to leave because we couldn't speak the lingo.

But yea, its something similiar, and not in Japan, just trying to show that its not just the japanese who are like that.

aw, they were probably serving snails and frog legs anyways. XD

[Aldrich]

Snails and frog legs are a delicacy. Far too delicate for merican (or canadian, it's the same thing) palates.

Mmmm snails and garlic butter… And sheep throat. And veal liver. Ooooh yeah.

[Local-chan]

snails and frogs legs are actually quite nice, its just the fact that you know what they are which puts yer off.

[captain usopp]

um, duh, I was joking. I do eat raw fish here.
(and I'll let that USA= CN comment slide….this time) ;)

(jango, I was trying to help buddy...:getlost: trying to trivialize the food since they wouldn't let you eat it) XD

[gaara d. lucci]

@Aldrich:

Snails and frog legs are a delicacy. Far too delicate for merican (or canadian, it's the same thing) palates.

Mmmm snails and garlic butter… And sheep throat. And veal liver. Ooooh yeah.

Somehow Aldrich, you actually make that sound delicious. LOL