I'm just having a hard time finding where was Raftel first mentioned. Not that it really matters, it is a technicality. Just wondering. But, I think the idea was whomever found One Piece became the Pirate King, not necessarily getting to Raftel. Of course one is intrinsically tied to the other given that to find One Piece you must get to Raftel. But I think there is some sort of distinction.
We also have to realize that the reason why the majority sees it that way, is because since Roger, there has been this balance between the emperors and the world government + warlords. The way to become pirate king might not vary regardless of the ideals behind the title, get One Piece/find Raftel, however what is expected to be found in One Piece does matter. For people like Blackbeard and the generic seeking power type of pirate. What One Piece represents is treasure that would allow them to rule the world. A weapon of sorts. While for Luffy the mere act of getting to Raftel signifies he is the freest person, that no one can stop him from reaching any place he desires.
So far i think that distinction was not made apparent, since finding OP and getting to Raftel have been used interchangeably.
Like, Rayleigh talks about Roger becoming PK after having conquered the entire Grandline, same as Crocus iirc.
And yeah, since you asked (though maybe you have found it in the meanwhile), Crocus was the one who first mentioned Raftel while explaining the purpose of the Logpose and how it works with the different paths you can take.
You can push it that way, but like i said, this is simply not the case anymore, Luffy´s conception of himself started to change already when he witnessed Aokiji´s might, but got completely crushed with Shabondy and Marineford, so this simply does not apply anymore.
Luffy understood that trying to defend your freedom comes with strength, so that nobody can mess with you, so much so that he thinks he first has to prove his strength by overcoming the current pirate elite, and then become PK, hence his statements, hence refusing to simply "steal" the Road Poneglyphs.
Even in WCI, he never put beating BM out of his mind, but simply postponed it to save Sanji, so much so that he at least had to get one punch in.
This is a clear contrast to pre-TS Luffy who had a more nonchalant approach to his journey and only sought out fights that were definitely necessary (saw Crocodile as the only way to stop revolution, Enel was about to destroy Skypeia plus he severely injured several Strawhats, Lucci would have slaughtered the Strawhats, Moria took the shadows…).
So i am not denying the possibility of it happening like you describe, but it seems contradictory to both Luffy´s definition now and the value of the title in itself, plus it´s still a bit problematic about what the outcome signifies, PK vs PK, does winning the fight make you the only PK.
Or maybe i am too strict and too detail-oriented, but to me it did not seem like something to gloss over so easily.
I am not ignoring that. I would say three major outliers including Big Mom. That is why she blames Lola, didn't she say that no Emperor would have been able to match her if that marriage went through? That she would have become the Pirate King? This is tied to what their definition of Pirate King entails. Power. One Piece being the previous Pirate King's ultimate treasure, must contain some sort of means to retain the title. Some sort of oppressive power.
I am not seeing BM as one because she is still following the route of getting to Raftel, hence the Road Poneglyphs and the cold war the Emperors are fighting pretty much, it´s just that she means that she could have taken care of the other Emperors, hence getting rid of both the one who protected the throne pretty much and was the linchpin of the past era to keep the freedom, and those that also possess Road Poneglyphs.
At least we can say she has not discarded getting there like Crocodile or DD did, if it´s the main accomplishment in becoming PK for her is not apparent, maybe one can argue it´s also connected to her dream of having every race live in her kingdom in a paradise for pirates.
This can be tackled in many ways though. But you are right, Luffy will deal with the obstacles to his freedom. But that could easily mean that Luffy and Blackbeard have some sort of confrontation beforehand. Be it, before or after Luffy meets Shanks. Like a preview to the final war.
However, One Piece is tied to the Ancient History regardless of what other things it may contain. It is hard to predict exactly how things will go about. The state of things. How abolishing the warlord system and implementing Vegapunk's new solution will affect the world. How will the different players shift due to this creation. As it is supposed to be something that can deal with emperors as well. What exactly be the status of each player in Wano (Kaido, Big Mom, Luffy) be?
What I am trying to say is that, for example if Big Mom had succeeded in her plan and Lola got married. Therefore defeated Shanks, Whitebeard etc. She would be the most powerful pirate with no peer. Would the world really be: "but did she find the One Piece? Then she really is not." So it is these little details that can easily form the basis of that prediction.
The prediction that during the point where there is no warlord system, emperors falling left and right, Shank is dead, Luffy is "not there yet" according to Blackbeard and even the fans when it comes to his emperor status. If Blackbeard is given the opportunity between finding One Piece and getting his hands on an Ancient Weapon, which one would he choose? I find this question, and ultimately his final decision pretty interesting. Blackbeard was not the one Roger was watiing for, as said by Whitebeard. Would it not even enhance this idea if Blackbeard "abandoned" the quest for One Piece, freedom as Roger and Luffy view it, for the chance to acquire a power that can crush any opposition. The same way Big Mom thought she would become King through the power gained from Elbaf, why can't Blackbeard definition change.
Not to mention we know Luffy will disclose his findings in some way. The relevant information for Blackbeard would be giving him a target for his new found power. Given that he would have defeated Shanks to obtain the weapon.
This is a possibility i never denied Kira, like i said in our previous discussion, Blackbeard having a completely different concept, or changing his goal, would erase that problem that for me, for now, inherently exists.
At least in terms of keeping the appeal of BB´s character, since he consciously would forsake Raftel and One Piece, and choose a more power focused goal.
Though this would make the problem of Luffy not having a main rival for the traditional PK title more apparent, but i already addressed that in the last discussion. Whether BB will be ok with that, i leave it in the air for now.
But like you said, the ending will definitely be convoluted due to so many factions being there, and nobody can accurately predict what each faction will contribute and the fashion in which they will do it.
My general point is, since we have such an unclear situation, the absolute statements made around here do not sit right with me, just as people getting called out for not accepting those statements, despite lacking arguments, while completely ignoring other aspects that seem very obvious to me.
Like Luffy will definitely clash with Akainu and get closure for Ace´s death at one point (i wrote about it above), or that the organization that has been the actual main antagonist or was connected to them in one way or the other for the majority of the arcs while also denying every value and personality traits that the protagonist represent, will not beaten by secondary characters.
At the same time, i know a fight between BB and Luffy is inevitable, already with the setup we have at this point, even more so when Shanks is gonna get beaten, and i also know that BB has been the most profilic and dynamic antagonist in the entire story, who undoubtedly will have a very major role to play, if it has to be until the very conclusion of the manga is a different issue though.
And I think he won't even if Blackbeard tries to crown himself through power. It will play well to contrast Luffy's journey to Blackbeard's.
To me, in that final confrontation, where Im, Blackbeard and Luffy will each be the representatives of their sides. Luffy and Blackbeard will both show up calling themselves the pirate king, and they will settle whom is the real one during the confrontation.
It´s a possibility, one that is not completely unproblematic for me, but still something i can accept.
What i mean with tarnish has two aspects really, first the title itself and the general image and prestige that was and is connected to it in the show, and second also all the revelations and probably sweet moments that we will get in Raftel.
The getting to Raftel, finding One Piece, learning everything, is such a monumental moment that i have my doubts Oda will lessen the significance by having non-Strawhats there, or even worse, have the fight there.
Luffy getting to Raftel and having Shirahoshi on his side, BB choosing Pluton and WG already having Uranus makes sense though.
It does not completely follow what WB predicted, but that´s also a different issue.
I think it is pretty trivial. But: whoever wins gets it all.
I disagree, Roger seems to have suffered defeats, and at least one rival with WB taht he never beat and who was revered more for his strength (being WSM and all), but nobody doubts his PK title due to being the one getting to Raftel and finding One Piece.
So it´s not that trivial.
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