Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

[Steven D. Teach]

Kinda confused by the projection of this incredibly linear "the final battle must be a series of doors opening, revealing a progression of bad guys and therefore WG will be the final one."

Luffy's need to overcome the yonkou and admirals, particularly in those strangely literally read panels posted, is more in reference to how far he has to progress to be at the top, it's a total stretch to read into that as some sort of systematic step-by-step guide to the war.

(I particularly like how that Fuji panel is suppose to be evidence of BB needing to go before the WG, but hey who cares about the Admirals lol) That post is full of self-evidenced nothings like "the war will be big, and thus the WG is the final boss," and then comedic leaps in reasoning like "WB said that One Piece will be vital to the war, so therefore Teach must be beaten by Luffy before the war."

Usually the WG as final villain crowd either hates BB, has a marine fetish (Darth), isn't quite aware of the story (Darth jr.), or whatever, but this read as a fill in your own blank essay.

[hosemisnuba]

Why is it that all supporter of final villains other than Blackbeard always utilize inane garbage, disguised as 'eloquent essays', to justify their denial of Teach's importance to the plot. I've said this before, but I will say it again: Oda has had the ending of One Piece in mind since the very beginning; furthermore, One Piece was only supposed to last 5 years. If Oda had actually lived up to that deadline, and never took a break, One Piece would've ended in 260 chapters. The first admiral didn't appear on screen until after that number; the Gorosei, the literal embodiments of the WG, didn't show until 232; Blackbeard however, is mentioned far before any of those FV candidates in Drum Island. Then you might be like, hose, Oda just thought it wasn't the right time to introduce the admirals and the Gorosei, but please, consider this. Oda had the finale of One Piece in mind since he started the series (when it was supposed to only last 5 years); in all of the early sketches Oda has released, the only core antagonist that makes an appearance is Teach. When you know this, why are you guys so stubborn to admit, that, Teach has to play a key role in the final conflict? Quite frankly, I don't care whether you believe he and his crew are the last to fall, but please stop relegating him to a boss battle at Raftel just because you don't like him.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

This post is deleted!

[Joy_Boy's_Will]

@Steven:

Kinda confused by the projection of this incredibly linear "the final battle must be a series of doors opening, revealing a progression of bad guys and therefore WG will be the final one."

Because there has yet to be an example of a main enemy playing that role in two separate arc's, outside of the admirals who did not(for the most part) directly fight the straw hats like we have come to expect. If Luffy needs to become the PK, before setting his sights officially on Mariejoa(due to the true history) then he must defeat teach who is portrayed in a way that suggests he is the final hurdle among pirates for the title. Which suggests we will get a full sclae arc Luffy vs. Blackbeard (11 vs. 11) just before(or perhaps during) the raftel arc. After which Luffy should then read the true history, come to understand the ancient conflict of differing "ideals" between the great kingdom and the 20 kings, and attack mariejoa. He wont do this alone however, as Mihawk points out Luffy has the most dangerous power in the world, he has the power to make allies out of his former enemies. This does not even include his general ability to make nakama in the first place. So we should expect that Luffy will head to mariejoa with the majority of all currently living allies and former enemies. But the point I want to emphasize again is that Oda has yet to feature the same enemy in two arcs. Teach might be there during the final battle, but I seriously doubt he will do so as an enemy.

Luffy's need to overcome the yonkou and admirals, particularly in those strangely literally read panels posted, is more in reference to how far he has to progress to be at the top, it's a total stretch to read into that as some sort of systematic step-by-step guide to the war.

I dont actually take this panels as literally as Aus, because for one I dont believe Luffy will end up having defeat either Big Mom or Shanks. But still, the Yonko need to be defeated either directly or indirectly before Luffy can be allowed to become the pirate king. This has been foreshadowed on numerous occasions. Some might argue that Roger never defeated whitebeard, however, I dont believe he needed to. As we can see before Rogers death, he and whitebeard were friends, and whitebeard did not stand in his way.

(I particularly like how that Fuji panel is suppose to be evidence of BB needing to go before the WG, but hey who cares about the Admirals lol) That post is full of self-evidenced nothings like "the war will be big, and thus the WG is the final boss," and then comedic leaps in reasoning like "WB said that One Piece will be vital to the war, so therefore Teach must be beaten by Luffy before the war."

It is heavily implied that he who finds the one piece will become the pirate king. So, you think Luffy as the pirate king will meet teach who is angry at Luffy for having found the one piece before him… while still having never proven that he is the stronger pirate? I think Blackbeard parallels well with Shiki, and Roger defeated Shiki just BEFORE he was finally able to find Raftel and earn the title of the king of the pirates.

Usually the WG as final villain crowd either hates BB, has a marine fetish (Darth), isn't quite aware of the story (Darth jr.), or whatever, but this read as a fill in your own blank essay.

I have nothing against BB, I just think you are underestimating the scope of the power of the WG.

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

Blackbeard doesnt need to fight luffy before he gets to Raftel. it wont be easy getting there but blackbeard doesnt have to be the doorman.

[The Tenth Strawhat]

I'm one of those guys that thinks it'll be a three-way war between the SHs and their allies, BB Pirates and their allies, and every faction under the WG. Each side will most likely have a Ancient Weapon at their disposal. The fight for the title of Pirate King will be more than just Luffy vs Teach on the doorstep of Raftel.

[Monkey King]

@The:

I'm one of those guys that thinks it'll be a three-way war between the SHs and their allies, BB Pirates and their allies, and every faction under the WG. Each side will most likely have a Ancient Weapon at their disposal. The fight for the title of Pirate King will be more than just Luffy vs Teach on the doorstep of Raftel.

Wait, let me get this straight, you're suggesting the same set up that Oda left us with by the end of Marineford….might be foreshadowing something of the final conflict??

[O baba]

final vilain is gol d roger, mark my words

[gibs]

@The:

I'm one of those guys that thinks it'll be a three-way war between the SHs and their allies, BB Pirates and their allies, and every faction under the WG. Each side will most likely have a Ancient Weapon at their disposal. The fight for the title of Pirate King will be more than just Luffy vs Teach on the doorstep of Raftel.

Do you think all the major One Piece characters would be represented in such a war? Like, would we see all the Supernovae and Yonkou take sides? There are so many longstanding characters in One Piece that it seems unlikely that Oda would only use a select few in an all out war. But, at the same time, wouldn't it be difficult to represent so many characters while keeping the story cohesive?

[Monkey King]

@Joy_Boy's_Will:

To the point of this thread, it is blatantly obvious the fight vs. the WG is the endgame, and the battle vs. Blackbeard will decide who will become the pirate king. There is a clear implication that luffy must first become the PK, before he is allowed to read the true history, and come to understand why the WG must be brought down. It's very simple. You focus too much on your understanding of how to write a story, and not enough on the actual story you are reading.

Why is this a clear implication when Luffy's own description of the Pirate King is a strange and more personal thing, and not "Reach Raftel".Also why does Luffy need to read the Poneglyph to understand why the government needs to be brought down when it is already his enemy in virtually every respect.In fact he already declared war on it symbolically over Robin during Enies Lobby. The argument that is "Read real history –---> topple government" relies on heavily flawed thinking that fails to introduce some new element to the mix. The government in its worst ways are NOT SECRET. None of that is to our heroes, and even most of the other major good guys. Even Rayleigh clearly knew the truth about Ohara for instance. Everyone knows the Celestial Dragons are horrific. Everyone knows the government is authoritarian. There is even already an ENTIRE REVOLUTIONARY ARMY lol. What are you suggesting that is NEW that will make such a simplistic conflict of Luffy going "Welp, I need to overthrow that thing now.".And no, realizing a near MILLENNIA old foundational myth is built on various lies is not that thing. Do YOU care deeply about 800 years ago?

Aus argued this quite well

This is impossible in two different ways lol.

I'll tell you why Blackbeard exists. Blackbeard exist to be Luffy's ultimate rival about becoming the Pirate King. Blackbeard's plan has been to become the Pirate King all along, and he had some incredible luck in such a plan.

This is based on the false premise that someone saying they want to be Pirate King means its the same basic sense of "Complete Journey to Island and Get Treasure". Luffy already demonstrated this to not be the case. And all other aspects of Blackbeard suggest far more to him in terms of background and motives than just being a pirate who wants to be pirate king. This point (as made endlessly by loads of naysayers) in of itself demonstrates people who are fundamentally disengaged with the character, they describe him like a generic placeholder PIRATE VILLAIN who doesn't really have any purpose beyond that. Which has been a consistent theme from 99% of the naysayers. Austro's ridiculous massive posts don't hide the reality that he's saying the same old crap that at least other people said in two sentences.

I think Teech and Luffy’s combat will parallel Whitebeard and Roger’s fight. The battle between Luffy and Teech must be the decisive battle about the rightful successor to Roger's throne. That should do him justice.

Whitebeard and Roger never "had a fight". They were consistent rivals which as far as we know never really settled their disputes. They were also clearly both the honorable Shanks kind of pirate, whose egos if anything stood in the way of what was otherwise a lot of similarities. The fact that they were shown hanging out together and sharing a drink proves this.This is horribly incompatible with Blackbeard in any sense, let alone his relationship with Luffy and really ANY other pirates.But yes, here it is again. This demonstrates again absolutely no actual analysis of Blackbeard, someone who isn't paying him any attention at all. Nothing about the character is actually taken into account, he is just being fitted into a generic pirate rival slot. And his motives and involvements with things are just being fitted into the same, just assuming his motives and plot involvements don't extend any deeper than reaching Raftel.And actually it goes beyond that in cluelessness to even be terming Roger's throne…as apparently just completing the quest. Because now its spilling that nonsense onto Roger himself. Now the One Piece quest is just as deep as the assumed reaching of Raftel and the treasure, and Roger by extension. EVEN THOUGH I know this poster knows and fully believes that there is more to it thanks to the Poneglyph. But look! Conveniently on the topic of Blackbeard, he will shrink and butcher the Roger plot to also be a limited "PIRATE THING" that isn't involved with the plot beyond that point.

If the government crumbles before the discovery of One Piece, A thing absolutely nobody has ever suggested. But of course I already knew this guy was completely unfamiliar with what he was even arguing against.

what purpose would One Piece serve then given that its true nature is highly likely the Real Poneglyph – the Pandora box that the government, for 800 years, has been going to great lengths to keep sealed? (I am talking about the content of One Piece here.)

Hm, so you're saying the One Piece quest and Roger's throne actually involve a really big ancient secrets super plot involving the World Government and the whole earth by extension? So…follow me here, Blackbeard and Luffy being the rival heirs to that quest....would involve that mega super plot beyond Raftel? I mean I'm just putting together two different things you yourself suggested here. Seems pretty logical.

After Robin read the poneglyph of Skypea, she realized that Roger must have, created for the first time, the Real Poneglyph.Spoiler: [qimg]http://i.imgur.com/0tI77Tr.png[/qimg]Yeah I figured that out a decade ago, the thing you're slowly posting pictures of like no one here has heard it before.

When Kinemon was revealing to everyone present the reason behind Kaido's pursuit, he said that it was because of the secrets of the world that Oden acquired in his voyage with Roger to Raftel.I don't think that's necessarily implied, that Kaidou was interested in the secrets. Though sure maybe.But either way it looks like you're suggesting a pirate villain is interested in the ancient history secrets plot. Now stop me if this sounds crazy, but what if there was also ANOTHER pirate villain who was interested in the ancient history secrets too. Like maybe he was a D, and one of his interests was studying history, and he had mysterious unexplained phenomena about him like eating two devil fruits. Stuff like that.

In other words, in Raftel, the island wherein One Piece is rumored to exist, holds the historical records of the Void Century. These are solid hints to the nature of One Piece: the Real Poneglyph.

-me in 2006

Moments before his death, Whitebeard tied the great war that the World Government dreads ‘directly’ to One Piece.

Yes. This is not in conflict whatsoever with the Blackbeard theory.

The way he said it was clearly suggesting that One Piece will play a crucial role in that war. There is no way around it as the great war was said in the context of a discussion revolving around One Piece.

Yes. This is not in conflict whatsoever with the Blackbeard theory.

It is therefore evident that One Piece causes the government a Brobdingnagian inconvenience as much as the ancient history does.

Yes. This is not in conflict whatsoever with the Blackbeard theory.

Since One Piece will play a vital role in that war, it cannot be reached without Teech's defeat considering that it was clearly stated that Luffy must defeat the four emperors

Explain in precise terms why Luffy has to defeat the four emperors to reach Raftel."Luffy/Chinjao said so" is not a reason. In fact I believe we did in fact find out how to reach Raftel. You have to get the info from four specific Poneglyphs. This is not a quest that as a step requires "defeat each of the four emperors". It's almost as if literal reading of lines is actually in fact a dumb thing to do. And that the One Piece world is not a video game where you need to defeat the four bosses before the door opens.

The four emperors have already been set as an unavoidable obstacle that Luffy has to break through in order to become the pirate king, and this was indicated also by the ‘red poneglyphs’ that were said to be in possession of some of them and sought by all of them.

So what you're saying here is that not all of these Poneglyphs are actually in the possession of the emperors. Meaning one could retrieve the four without having defeated all of the four emperors. Also I'm confused here, see the quotes you posted and decided to take literally (especially strange given Luffy's total lack of authority on the subject) also mention the Admirals. Now this is strange here. To take these statements literally you don't really have a choice but to include all the information included. Or did you take the Yonkou comment literally, and the Admiral comment non-literally. Because I don't see you fitting that into your idea here at all. Hmm, that's…inconsistent logic.

So, Blackbeard must be defeated **‘before’ Luffy finds One Piece, & this will make the government the final villain.So lets see, you have hand-waved an ever increasing treasure trove of evidence that Blackbeard goes deeper than being a generic pirate boss guarding the way to Raftel (including your own idea that Kaidou also goes deeper??)….and you have handwaved this away with a couple lines of grandiose statement making that you have decided to SELECTIVELY take literally.What an absolute mountain of nothing.

Also, after Rayleigh told Robin that he and his crew mates knew all of the history of the Void Century, he further added to that that even if he told her the history of the Void Century **‘as she is now’, there was nothing she could have done about it.In other words, once the history of the void century becomes known to the Straw Hats, that seems to hint to the scenario that such knowledge will compel them to take actions against the World Government. This is an absurdly possible even willfully false reading of that part. Even including the panel you posted! Rayleigh says this with a sort of hard to read look on his face, he says it followed by saying that the reason he wants her to keep moving on is because she might find a different answer, he says it in an extremely ambiguous way that suggests the things he found out were a mixture of messages rather than some stupid cartoon black and white thing, and he also suggests this complexity in saying that the Roger pirates may not really have been cut out to process the message compared to a scholar.Building off what I accused you of earlier, of not ACTUALLY paying any attention to Blackbeard? I begin to think this is a serial issue you have. You post a million panels with a million words. And yet when actually looked at…you are quoting one line without paying any attention to any of the other lines around it, INCLUDING IN THE SAME EXACT PANEL. The confirmation bias I'm seeing is almost beyond the pale.

Moreover, the Straw Hats have already declared an all out war against the World Government.

Good point. Now then why do they even need the One Piece?

It’s only natural for this loose end to be tied in due time, and to do that, the Straw Hats have to take a central role in the direct overthrow of the World Government.

Its not really a loose end, since Luffy did it in the name of saving Robin. The point being he didn't care if he made the whole world his enemy over her. This doesn't suggest a direct vendetta, let alone a desire to personally topple the government. Oh, unless of course you are still a robot who reads every line literally.

Finally, One Piece (the story) has a pattern in its plotline: the past events of the first half of the story are mirrored later on in its second half in chronological order.

This is not a thing that actually exists outside a few points, and the minds of delusional people who work hard to find flimsy connections without any idea of what the point of the suggested connections are.

Just as the beginning of the first half of the story had the downfall of a warlord that uses base means to usurp the throne of a country,

By what definition is the Alabasta arc "the beginning" of One Piece.I don't recall Crocodile running around in East Blue, but maybe I'm wrong and he was?

so did the second half.

Oh ok, so in story structure land the Grand Line is the only part that exists. I guess East Blue is….well actually I have no idea.

The author has been creating amazingly & chronologically clear parallels between the two halves of the story,

He hasn't been doing anything of the sort, and nothing proved this better than your own extremely embarassing thread on the subject.

allowing us to predict _to a certain degree the future happenings of events.You are an intellectually bankrupt fraud.

And since the culmination of the first half of the story was a war between the government's forces and pirates, it is reasonable to conclude that the culmination of the second half will be a war that parallels the first one, but on a phenomenal scale, making the WG the final villain.

Hey, remember when Blackbeard showed up in the final hour and wrecked havoc at the expense of everyone present? No I guess you apparently don't. How convenient._****

[K. Kira XXIII]

People showing up during the final war:

• Strawhat crew
• Strawhat Armada
• World Government -> Marines
• Blackbeard pirates + Fleet
• Revolutionary Army
• Poseidon + sea kings + Fishman Island army and Wano.

–--
If you disagree with this list, but have not responded to the inquiries on the Ancient weapons and support only the WG as final antaganoist, then do not bother, I do not feel like repeating what I said, and I already saw every evidence I needed to know that the WG will be at the final war, if one of their representatives is taken down last, that is fine. However we will ALWAYS disagree unless the idea of a 3 way war is plausible.

In regards of the other allies of Luffy: Dressrosa, Water Seven, Alabasta, etc, will most likely play a role in regards of Poseidon reaching Luffy in the final war. I have an idea that the Government will send out Pacifistas to ensure these allies are controlled or eliminated. Instead of having everyone in the final war's location, which I predict could be the last Ancient Weapons location, or maybe where the national treasure is, we see these allies trying to get there, however a couple of Pacifistas would be enough to stop most of these countries. It all really boils down if the existence of Poseidon is known to the Government or not, which most likely it will be.

[Cyan D. Funk]

Reminder that Blackbeard was the actual winner of Marineford.

[Monkey King]

@Joy_Boy's_Will:

Because there has yet to be an example of a main enemy playing that role in two separate arc's, outside of the admirals who did not(for the most part) directly fight the straw hats like we have come to expect. If Luffy needs to become the PK, before setting his sights officially on Mariejoa(due to the true history) then he must defeat teach who is portrayed in a way that suggests he is the final hurdle among pirates for the title.

And you Joy Boy, are also insanely guilty just as Austro is of not actually giving Blackbeard even the slightest real attention, you are also completely guilty of just filing him away in an insanely lazy "PIRATE VILLAIN" category. You take it that extra step that some others have, the whole "SEE THERE IS A PIRATE PLOT, AND THERE IS A VOID CENTURY PLOT" which as always comes across as a preciously naive relict from ancient One Piece days back when people hadn't yet accepted that Oda had a secret mega plot buried under the pirate adventure exterior. Well champ there is no Pirate Plot, there is no Void Century plot. There is one plot where all the pirate stuff and all the void century stuff is completely intertwined. So even the niche you're attempting to lazily write away Blackbeard into …is a niche that doesn't exist. But maybe you deep down know that, and are aware that this entire comment is a giant way of writing off a character you either haven't really looked into or won't really look into with what is basically a bad excuse.

But the point I want to emphasize again is that Oda has yet to feature the same enemy in two arcs.

So I guess we imagined Luffy fighting Aokiji, Kizaru, Mihawk, Moria, Kuma, Smoker, and so on at Marineford.Which is not even the only example I can think of. So this is mega wrong.

I dont actually take this panels as literally as Aus, because for one I dont believe Luffy will end up having defeat either Big Mom or Shanks. But still, the Yonko need to be defeated either directly or indirectly before Luffy can be allowed to become the pirate king.

No they don't. This isn't a tournament or a video game.

This has been foreshadowed on numerous occasions.

It has never been foreshadowed.

Some might argue that Roger never defeated whitebeard, however, I dont believe he needed to. As we can see before Rogers death, he and whitebeard were friends, and whitebeard did not stand in his way.

Part of what makes this suggestion so ridiculous is that it requires a very linear view of the Raftel approach. A thing which has been clearly demonstrated as being non-linear in Zou. Noting down four different locations on entirely different possible quite far apart islands, and then heading to the X their crossed points create….this is inherently non-linear.

It is heavily implied that he who finds the one piece will become the pirate king.

Except by the protagonist but ok.

So, you think Luffy as the pirate king will meet teach who is angry at Luffy for having found the one piece before him… while still having never proven that he is the stronger pirate? I think Blackbeard parallels well with Shiki, and Roger defeated Shiki just BEFORE he was finally able to find Raftel and earn the title of the king of the pirates.

So yes, you definitely view Blackbeard in an utterly interchangeable sense. Listening to you and Austro describe him you'd think Oda had completely forgotten to give him distinct characterization and unique peculiarities. Why he just slides so nicely into whatever random muscle role you want really!

I have nothing against BB, I just think you are underestimating the scope of the power of the WG.

Exactly, you have nothing against BB because you have nothing when it comes to BB. The character might as well be a blank spot for all the thought you have given him.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Cyan:

Reminder that Blackbeard was the actual winner of Marineford.

And was the one who caused the event to happen in the first place.

[The True Saviour]

@S.C.:

And was the one who caused the event to happen in the first place.

He didn't cause that war to happen at all.

[Galaxy 9000]

@The:

He didn't cause that war to happen at all.

Blackbeard was the one who captured Ace, and Ace was the reason for the war. So by extension, yes, he did.

[KageKageKing]

@The:

He didn't cause that war to happen at all.

Nope. He totally caused it.

[le crystal]

@The:

He didn't cause that war to happen at all.

He was the catalyst for the whole war. Teach kills Thatch>>Ace tries to find Teach to avenge Thatch>>Ace gets defeated and sent to Impel Down>>Teach becomes a Warlord>>The Marines want to execute Ace>>Whitebeard declared a war to free him. You get the idea by now.

[Steven D. Teach]

Plus Teach was originally gunning for Luffy, but wound up (y'know, that whole fate thing) running into Ace.

[Monkey King]

lists five thousand parallels with things like a ship falling from the sky being "referenced" by a monkey falling off a large elephant…............................completely glances over Blackbeard's presence at the Marineford battle

[The True Saviour]

@Galaxy:

Blackbeard was the one who captured Ace, and Ace was the reason for the war. So by extension, yes, he did.

So? Going by this logic Thatc was just as responsible because he found the yami yami.@KageKageKing:

Nope. He totally caused it.

No he didn't. @le:

He was the catalyst for the whole war. Teach kills Thatch>>Ace tries to find Teach to avenge Thatch>>Ace gets defeated and sent to Impel Down>>Teach becomes a Warlord>>The Marines want to execute Ace>>Whitebeard declared a war to free him. You get the idea by now.

Uh no. with this logic we can go as far back as we want, you just arbitrarily chose to start with teach. The only ones responsible for the war are the marines and whitebeard.

[KageKageKing]

@The:

So? Going by this logic Thatc was just as responsible because he found the yami yami.No he didn't. Uh no. with this logic we can go as far back as we want, you just arbitrarily chose to start with teach. The only ones responsible for the war are the marines and whitebeard.

Teach caught Ace, Whiteberd went to Marineford because of that, War happens. There you have it. Simple Logic.

[Bugs]

@The:

So? Going by this logic Thatc was just as responsible because he found the yami yami.No he didn't. Uh no. with this logic we can go as far back as we want, you just arbitrarily chose to start with teach. The only ones responsible for the war are the marines and whitebeard.

The text says Teach is very responsible.

!

[EvoWarrior5]

@Monkey:

Everyone knows the government is authoritarian.

Can't say I've been following all of this debate, but I recall that a while back - may or may not have been in this thread - you took issue with someone's use of the term "authoritarian" in referring to the WG. Have you changed perspective or why are you using this term yourself now? I thought you made good points at the time, so I'm not sure what happened. @The:

So? Going by this logic Thatc was just as responsible because he found the yami yami.

That's a passive role, not an active one.

Uh no. with this logic we can go as far back as we want, you just arbitrarily chose to start with teach. The only ones responsible for the war are the marines and whitebeard.

In the way of pointing out direct lead-ups to the war, yea I'd say we can point at Teach. Why did the war start? Because the Government was about to execute Ace. Why were they about to? Because Teach had captured him. Why had he captured Ace? He wanted the Schichibukai title and Ace was chasing him. Why did Ace chase him? Because Teach killed Thatch over the fruit. Also, why did he want that title? So he could get into Impel Down and gather his crew so he could go after the Gura Gura. Maybe he didn't 100% mean for the war to happen as it did, but it sure fit into his plans and I honestly think we can safely say that, no matter how "everything is fate lol" Blackbeard is, he should at least have had the capacity to realise that Ace's capture would lead to a conflict which he could benefit from. Of course in the end, the government "could" have chosen to just let Ace go, or Whitebeard "could" have chosen not to go to war. Technically, they were the only ones really responsible for fighting it, I guess. But that's what we call someone pulling the strings, which is exactly what Blackbeard did. He caused the catalyst, and he invaded into it when it was at its height.

[Arlong child]

For some reason, even though BB is mostlikely, I think someone else will take the place being the final villian. Just need to figure out who..Edit: forget it, this isnt zootopia, its def BB :p

[Steven D. Teach]

@The:

So? Going by this logic Thatc was just as responsible because he found the yami yami.No he didn't. Uh no. with this logic we can go as far back as we want, you just arbitrarily chose to start with teach. The only ones responsible for the war are the marines and whitebeard.

This is just lazy and obtuse. The only thing arbitrary is this bizarre "well we could take it's far back as…" mutant slippery-slope argument. If you're actually calling Blackbeard's link to the start of the war arbitrary then you're pretty flatly denying the truth.

[Monkey King]

@EvoWarrior5:

Can't say I've been following all of this debate, but I recall that a while back - may or may not have been in this thread - you took issue with someone's use of the term "authoritarian" in referring to the WG. Have you changed perspective or why are you using this term yourself now? I thought you made good points at the time, so I'm not sure what happened.

I definitely never did that. The word you might be recalling in question was "totalitarian". Which implies a level of authoritarian governance that would be like…North Korea levels rather than China/Russia levels. The WG isn't omnipresent and all oppressing. It is utterly in charge without the say of the people, and certainly CAN be anywhere it needs to be within its sphere, but mostly it holds back and doesn't really assert itself unless it feels the need to. With the Celestial Dragons being mobile exceptions who turn things totalitarian if they walk by, but then that's gone where they leave.

[EvoWarrior5]

@Monkey:

I definitely never did that. The word you might be recalling in question was "totalitarian". Which implies a level of authoritarian governance that would be like…North Korea levels rather than China/Russia levels. The WG isn't omnipresent and all oppressing. It is utterly in charge without the say of the people, and certainly CAN be anywhere it needs to be within its sphere, but mostly it holds back and doesn't really assert itself unless it feels the need to. With the Celestial Dragons being mobile exceptions who turn things totalitarian if they walk by, but then that's gone where they leave.

Ooh yea that's what it was. My bad.

[dropper]

I think that the final villain won't be part of the World Gov. or Marines. It's a race for pirate glory. The Gorosei will play a huge role in the future but the WG would be very anti-climatic for the finale. My guess is that it will come down to pirates battling each other at the very end. That doesn't really narrow it down but it's looking less likely to be Big Mom or Kaidou right about now.

[Monkey King]

@dropper:

I think that the final villain won't be part of the World Gov. or Marines. It's a race for pirate glory. The Gorosei will play a huge role in the future but the WG would be very anti-climatic for the finale. My guess is that it will come down to pirates battling each other at the very end. That doesn't really narrow it down but it's looking less likely to be Big Mom or Kaidou right about now.

It was never going to be either of them.Your instincts are correct for the most part (though you're underrating the major role of the WG in the final conflict by a ton), but it should be very obvious who the person to fit your role is and has been since Jaya.

[Underworld1991]

I can't be the only one who thinks Blackbeard wants to be Pirate King because he believes it's the best way he be able to conquer the world.

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

@Underworld1991:

I can't be the only one who thinks Blackbeard wants to be Pirate King because he believes it's the best way he be able to conquer the world.

Whatever blackbeard's ambitions are, i doubt they stop at the pirate king title.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

[Kaptayn]

@Long:

Whatever blackbeard's ambitions are, i doubt they stop at the pirate king title.

How far do you think he would like to go if he had the opportunity to?

[dropper]

@Kaptayn:

How far do you think he would like to go if he had the opportunity to?

The reason I don't think it will be Blackbeard right now is because he isn't that interesting of a villain, after some character development it might become more clear. I'm pretty sure there is a good guy trapped inside his body and a lot is to be expanded, as soon as we feel sympathy for Blackbeard I'm sure he'll become more interesting, his first appearance when he talks about dreams hasn't been topped. Oda's SBS drawings of characters as children really kills imagination for their past development.

[Monkey King]

@dropper:

The reason I don't think it will be Blackbeard right now is because he isn't that interesting of a villain,

He's an evil Luffy. That's super interesting.

[KageKageKing]

@dropper:

I'm pretty sure there is a good guy trapped inside his body and a lot is to be expanded, as soon as we feel sympathy for Blackbeard I'm sure he'll become more interesting, his first appearance when he talks about dreams hasn't been topped. Oda's SBS drawings of characters as children really kills imagination for their past development.

"I think the guy who handed Luffy's brother to the Government in a silver platter might be a nice person after all."….What?

[RomanceDawn]

Black Beard not interesting? He's an Emperor D. He can sense Haki within a person and determine its growth. He likes to study history. His body is abnormal to the point that it can contain 2 Devil Fruits. He memorized the book on Devil Fruits and we've seen him cry in the moon light. There is a lot going on there. With his knowledge on Devil Fruits I'm still trying to figure if he was only speaking figuratively when talking about how the Darkness Fruit chose him.

[desa]

@S.C.:

And was the one who caused the event to happen in the first place.

You might as well say Ace was the one to cause it by going after Blackbeard.

[dropper]

BB hasn't been that interesting to me for a while, he has been setup as the main villain but needs more character development, explained backstory, motives, etc. The child SBS characters seem forced. His backstory in WB's crew needs heavily expanded on especially. So he likes to backstab, his ambitions haven't been revealed, just teased since his manic laughing about dreams never dying. Why I think he will become a more interesting character is that Shanks saw something different in him from his past, his flag represents more than one person in one body, more than one DF so split personalities? My guess is that he probably was a 'nice' character but been taken over by darkness which is a hell of a lot more interesting than being bad just for the sake of being bad.

[Galaxy 9000]

@desa:

You might as well say Ace was the one to cause it by going after Blackbeard.

And Blackbeard caused that by killing Thatch and running off, so the blame still remains on him even if you go back that far.

[desa]

@Galaxy:

And Blackbeard caused that by killing Thatch and running off, so the blame still remains on him even if you go back that far.

Pretty Sure it was caused by Whithebeard refusing to take care of Teach. Which was caused by Whitebeard's bad instinct about it. Which was caused by Blackbeard's aura(maybe?). So if we absolutely have to put Blackbeard has the cause of the war I guess we can say his aura did it.

[KageKageKing]

@desa:

So if we absolutely have to put Blackbeard has the cause of the war I guess we can say his aura did it.

Isn't that the same thing?

[desa]

@KageKageKing:

Isn't that the same thing?

Sure. It's just an pretty weak connection to the war. I mean I could just say the yami caused the war, it's probably just as relevant.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

@Monkey:

He's an evil Luffy. That's super interesting.

I would say he is more like evil WB. Same fruit with the power to destroy the world( one would use it, the other one didn't want to use it), both share same beard based name that is a play on white-good and black-evil, bb is coward and screams from pain while wb is brave and doesn't care even when he lost half a head and all those wounds, same fleet based ranks with his crew, wb cares about his men and calls them sons while bb killed and defeated his own crewmates, bb defeated his old crew and replaced them as yonkou, he also got same fruits from wb's crew( with the 2 other fruits he will get he will have 4 in total from the old crew, jozu's fruit, marco's fruit, trach's fruit, wb's fruit).BB pirates replaced the wb pirates. It's like Oda shows us, what if wb pirates would be evil.

[Cyan D. Funk]

@uniaka:

I would say he is more like evil WB. Same fruit with the power to destroy the world( one would use it, the other one didn't want to use it), both share same beard based name that is a play on white-good and black-evil, bb is coward and screams from pain while wb is brave and doesn't care even when he lost half a head and all those wounds, same fleet based ranks with his crew, wb cares about his men and calls them sons while bb killed and defeated his own crewmates, bb defeated his old crew and replaced them as yonkou, he also got same fruits from wb's crew( with the 2 other fruits he will get he will have 4 in total from the old crew, jozu's fruit, marco's fruit, trach's fruit, wb's fruit).BB pirates replaced the wb pirates. It's like Oda shows us, what if wb pirates would be evil.

He has the exact same damn outlook on life that Luffy does, he shares many of Luffy's habits, and his crew is full of evil versions of the rest of the Strawhats.

Teach is literally what Luffy and the Strawhats would be if they were evil.

[KageKageKing]

@desa:

Sure. It's just an pretty weak connection to the war. I mean I could just say the yami caused the war, it's probably just as relevant.

I would agree if Oda didn't pointed many and many times that Teach was the one who responsible for the war in the first place

[Kaptayn]

@dropper:

The reason I don't think it will be Blackbeard right now is because he isn't that interesting of a villain, after some character development it might become more clear. I'm pretty sure there is a good guy trapped inside his body and a lot is to be expanded, as soon as we feel sympathy for Blackbeard I'm sure he'll become more interesting, his first appearance when he talks about dreams hasn't been topped. Oda's SBS drawings of characters as children really kills imagination for their past development.

I guess each has different opinions, but I find him way more interesting than the villains we usually get. He shares some of the same convictions as Luffy, yet the way he stands for them are different.

[Robby]

Its because Blackbeard is fat and missing teeth, isn't it?

[desa]

@KageKageKing:

I would agree if Oda didn't pointed many and many times that Teach was the one who responsible for the war in the first place

The battle caused the war. It would be fine to say he is responsible if he planned to catch Ace but the one he planned to catch was Luffy.

[KageKageKing]

@desa:

The battle caused the war. It would be fine to say he is responsible if he planned to catch Ace but the one he planned to catch was Luffy.

And HE catched Ace and Oda didn't stopped putting words in the mouth of their characters that he is the one who did it.