Oooh… controversy! Thanks again mods for dragging this old thread back up. I've not been called "diabolically evil" since highschool. It brings back the the good old days.
EDIT: Okay, back to the topic on hand. In order to discuss the legitimacy of the world government, we should first understand it.
The world government is an international organization headed by the Gurosei, with the input of local leaders, like the conference of kings. Instead of being compared to a national government, it is more a coalition of nations like the UN. Its primary responsibilities seem to be thus:
1. Protecting international shipping lanes and coastal communities from violent attack.
2. Preventing international wars of aggression.
3. Preventing the release of knowledge of the void century and the god weapons.
4. Maintaining the protected status of the Tenryuubito.
5. Protecting their own base of power and maintaining the world balance of power.
Looked at from that angle, I argue that the World Government does more good by their commitment to aims 1-3 than they do wrong when they overzealously pursue aims 3-5.
@Don:
Here i think its more important to say that he actually WANTED that the truth will be discovered by others. Thats why his biggest action at the end of his life was to create a new era which is actually searching for the one thing the WG doesn
t want to be spread (even when everyone thinks he searches for gold or something like that, but it`s clear that only those who are worth to find the truth out could actually achieve that.)
That's a valid clarification. I still have to believe that the worlds strongest man, equipped with the world's most dangerous secret, leading the world's strongest pirate crew, and while in possession of the world's greatest treasure, must have had the power to reshape the world's political structure, or what's the big deal with One Piece to begin with?
Roger decided to use all that power merely to inspire a future generation to seek out the same truths and power he himself possessed. The rationale for that decision won't be revealed until the end of the series, but can anyone argue that it isn't tied up with the knowledge of the void century or this current debate over whether to maintain the status quo or dissolve the WG into world anarchy?
It wasnt his point to say that any side is right(the law) in the end. The world is just constructed that any side who posses the power automatically gets the right, no matter what. DoFla showed that both sides have their flaws and that neither of them can be the "real right" side forever. It
s more like a rocker(? right word?) which goes up and down and one time the one side has the power..and so is called "right" and one time the other.
My issue with Doflamingo's statement has more to do with his New Age philosophy and disdain for the values that inspire people to lay down their lives for a cause they believe in. To Dofla, "justice" and "liberty" are worthless idols, but personal self aggrandizement is always worthy of esteem. Sure there is no way to debate the relative importance of justice or liberty, but I find Doflamingo's disrespect for the motivational purity of those involved in that conflict reprehensible, especially while he wallows before the altar of his own self importance.
That Wapol didnt turn in for aid was in my eyes not because he couldn
t do that..it was just he was to lazy to do so and he knew that those pirates won`t there forever.
So he just run away and sit out till those pirates are gone until he thought it´s save to go back home and rule like nothing happened before.
Why should he have bothered the WG with that, when it was just a matter of time for him?
Also he was at least on the conference of the kings(which shows they had at least contact with each other) without any problems and also that the WG not investigates from time to time who actually holds the power in their countrys shows a lot in my opinion.
That someone can hold the power as long as the WG doesn`t hear:
shows how much they actually care for the people and look after them.
As long as the authority of the WG isnt directly attacked they don
t protect any civilian from such abuse in the world.
I look at this very differently. The WG is an international organization that doesn't have the responsibility or mandate to deal with local political issues. Just like I wouldn't want the UN to get militarily involved in a local election, the WG has no responsibility to intercede against the sovereign rights of their member states .
Also, I was referring more to Wapol's inability to retake drum after he was ousted by Luffy. The Marines could have restored him to power for being a member of their conference of kings, but did not. That's a good thing.
Maybe i can bring up some other points for you which show that the WG itself actually isn`t a peace giving organization:
-they ally with pirates
(creating something like the shichibukai or that they have secret blueprints with DoFla shows that they deal with criminals to reach their own goals)
-giving the right for organisations like CP9 to kill uncooperative civilians
(not just arrest them,KILL THEM ON THE SPOT)
-hunting down the offsprings of an outlaw
(I mean even Garp knows they bear no sins..but still the WG goes after them)
-creating false facilities to keep up appearances
(like EL,which is no real court, or ID,where they torture the criminals instead of just putting them away which a human-loving govertment could also do..but well we also have Guantanamo)
Valid points, and I certainly agree that the WG are not peace loving, nor do they have any respect for our modern values of basic human rights, but many of those actions can be explained in context, if not necessarily justified.
-The Shichibukai are necessary to balance out the power of the Yonkou. Without the aid of Moria, DoFla, and Hakwyes, it could certainly be argued that the Marines would have lost the war with WB, 1/4th of the power of the Yonkou. When Shanks arrived, the entire Marine garrison was forced to accept a ceasefire because they lacked the military power to battle even 1/2 of the power of the Yonkou. Can you blame them for hiring privateers (even unethical ones) when their weakness can be so easily exposed?
-The targeted killing by the CP9 should be considered a much more humane method of dealing with threats than the other available options, which are all military. CP9 success allows for Buster Calls to be unnecessary.
-EL was a sham, yes (although they did pardon Jango). However, we haven't yet seen an example of a misplaced bounty. So far, all the people given bounties have been guilty of pirating or for being threats to world stability. The prisoners held at Impel Down were all really really bad and dangerous people, so the justice system doesn't seem too flawed in practice.
-Attacking the offspring of world class criminals is pretty reprehensible. But something else was going on here. Ace's bloodline posed a unique threat to the WG that hasn't been explained yet. The minor risk that he would eventually rally pirates using Gol Roger's name doesn't justify the expense they went through to track him down. There's got to be something else to this story, something related to One Piece and Raftel.
Like I said, I'm not trying to say that the WG is justified in all of their actions, or that all figures who act in their name are good people. They have committed atrocities in the name of what they see as "the greater good." Nevertheless, they are the guys fighting for justice against the bloodthirsty pirates whose primary motivations are rape and pillage. They have some great men in their ranks, like Coby, Garp, Aokiji and Smoker. The values they fight for a motivationally pure. That ain't diabolically evil.
speaking of which, on to Sir ramza.
@ramza85:
Erm, sir (boiga), sorry but I think what you post was a bloody joke.
Sir this argument of yours is utter bullshit. If you were really reading one piece and not some political nazi studies you'd know that it was not portrayed in that manner…..............
On the other hand about the underlined part sir, though subtle, makes you sounds diabolically evil.
[snicker…] Your mixture of effusive politeness mixed with over the top hateful rhetoric is really great. You even pulled the nazi card! Classic.
Killing of any kind is pretty evil by itself, its inhuman, what the WG did that day was PURE EVIL.
Killing is really very human. We're quite accomplished at it as a species. I've already stated my opinion on the ohara incident, so I won't repeat myself, save for a few minor points. First of all, the attack on the refugee ships fleeing Ohara wasn't WG policy, it was Akainu going beyond the scope of his authority in his pursuit for "Absolute Justice." Akainu's pretty dang close to evil, so I'm not going to spend much time defending him. The WG blame here lies in not overtly punishing Akainu for his insubordinate massacre. On the other hand, the WG showed similar clemency to Aokiji for letting Nico Robin escape and for Garp for harboring Ace and Luffy, not to mention for fathering Dragon. As I explained earlier, the WG is fundamentally weak when compared to the disorganized pirates, so they don't waste their strongest soldiers on disciplinary grounds.
And sir why is it difficult to blame the WG kings? If you spoil your child then is it your fault? I think to you, its a no. Alright. Blame God then.
Sir, how about the bridge that the Tenryuubito issued to construct 700 years ago? Citizens of countries that refused to join the world government were sent to labour to death building that bridge.. Sir, I guess the WG is really out to protect and serve the ordinary citizens and make their life a better one.
You can blame the WG kings all you want. I'm just saying that spoiling your kids isn't diabolically evil… The bridge is a pretty horrible example of WG overreach, but the actual initiation for the project is because of the explicit demands of the Tenryuubito. When it comes down to it, I think the WG hates the Tenryuubito as much as anyone (even Sengoku complained about them) but they are legally obligated to accede to their demands in their founding charter. The actual workers on the bridge, however, were not ordinary citizens because they were not citizens of the world government. Th WG has no obligation to people who are not members of their charter, beyond a commitment to fundamental human rights (which don't exist in the OP world.) These people lost their war against the WG and were treated horribly for it. That's awful, but it's also the way wars worked during the colonialist era that the OP world mimics.
Sir we are taking about level 6, super human pirates that can KO marine battleships by themselves. Picture this sir, serial gay rapist and bloodthirsty stabbers just broke out of a famous maximum security prison and may be sitting next to you as you are waiting for trains & buses, AND just because your government finds it too embarrassing to tell you that they screwed up.. they cover it up. Thoughtful and caring government we have there eh? Thats the WG for you. Sir you may very well be the only person not seeing that as a mortal sin.
So, you blame the WG for not warning people about the escape of these "serial gay rapists" (does that mean they serially rape gays or that they are gays who serially rape?) but give the WG no credit for locking them up to begin with? All these hypothetical battleship KOers would have been out doing their gay rape to begin with if it weren't for the WG. Locking them up was a valid public service. When the marines chase them down again, that will be another great public service, huh? Those Marines sure are nice guys.
Sir i am not so sure about that. Just because the guy have a tattoo on his face it makes him bad. Just because the WG talks about peace and justice the whole time make them good. You really gotta reread one piece before you claim that sir.
I've reread the series several times now, but you might want to reread my earlier posts. I haven't claimed that the WG are good and the revos are bad. My point is that the end motives for higher ups on both sides are unknown, while the underlings for both sides believe that they are acting for the greater good. We don't know who is right yet (if anyone is), and we likely won't until near the end of the series.
Do enlighten me sir, for it amused me. For you sounded very very certain in some of the claims you put up.
:)
I hope you are enlightened. I always sound certain, but I never am. Certainty in this series is limited to the author.
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Happy holidays to you too Don Quichotte, and to everyone else in our little community of people who take this stuff way too seriously!