I know it sounds awarkard since Luffy never saw Rokushiki before but I find differant points in 432:
Garp trained Luffy to become an marine but refuse and wanted to be a pirate. Garp tied Luffy to the balloon, threw him off the cliff and left him in the middle of the night.
But Garp trained Coby and Helmeppo and Coby learned soru.
So if Garp taught Coby soru, should not Garp taught Luffy the Rokushiki as well?
**Wow, interesting. You bring up a very good point.
I think Garp trained him by forcing him to fend for himself in certain situations. I don't think Garp trained Luffy in the traditional way, for the most part.
But this could be an explanation as to why Luffy was able to master soru so quickly. The training arp has given him was somewhat similar to the Rokushiki style. So Luffy could easily learn a move such as soru, because his previous training is so similar.**
It seemed to me that Garp just trained Luffy in the basics, especially strength and agility, but didn't bestow any specific style on him. Presumably Rokushiki techniques are Marine secrets since Bluneo was shocked at a non-marine being able to use them. Probably only those marines with the potential to be officers are eligible for such training.
Now it makes sense why Blueno was so surprised… I finally got it.
Anyway, I think Garp focused on Luffy's "stamina", since I don't recall him ever training him to fight. I thought of it as a... as a... "Standing under the waterfall" sort of thing.
Since Coby learned Soru, I wonder if he could beat Luffy... I know he lost this time, but who knows. He sure as hell could complete his dream of capturing Alvida, that's for damn certain.
Yeah, I see Coby getting stronger, but you know what I realized? I don't see Cody learning some of the other roushiki moves. Shigan for example is a littel cruel–maybe Garp will teach him to punch like he does? Unless for course Coby is training himself to kick, as his leg use on Luffy and Soru seem to imply.
What I fial to understand is how Luffy reverse-engineered Soru, but he still needed to increase his blood flow rate to do so, in other words Gear 2, so how does Coby, who trained less and got his butt kicked by Luffy in 2 quick shots, manage to learn it in under a year, and yet have his body able to able it witohut a total thrashing?
What I fial to understand is how Luffy reverse-engineered Soru, but he still needed to increase his blood flow rate to do so, in other words Gear 2, so how does Coby, who trained less and got his butt kicked by Luffy in 2 quick shots, manage to learn it in under a year, and yet have his body able to able it witohut a total thrashing?
Who said Luffy needed gear 2 to use it? Luffy in gear 1 managed to keep up with Bleuno just fine, in fact he only got faster after gear 2. Plus, why would soru put such stress on the body? All the CP9 and even Nero can use soru without much trouble.
Plus, for all we know soru is Coby's only skill. Notice that he kicked Luffy first of all. I think Coby may be a kicking oriented fighter, and therefore has good leg strength.
The way I understand it, and I could completely be wrong, is that in gear 1 Luffy was able to easily keep up with Blueno's soru. Gear 2 drastically increased not only his speed but the speed of his attacks as well while in gear 1 they were just regular speed and not amplified by the soru technique or something like that.
Who said Luffy needed gear 2 to use it? Luffy in gear 1 managed to keep up with Bleuno just fine, in fact he only got faster after gear 2. Plus, why would soru put such stress on the body?
@sharpie:
The way I understand it, and I could completely be wrong, is that in gear 1 Luffy was able to easily keep up with Blueno's soru. Gear 2 drastically increased not only his speed but the speed of his attacks as well while in gear 1 they were just regular speed and not amplified by the soru technique or something like that.
No. That's not true. Luffy could NOT keep up with Bleuno. To be more precise, he could, but it was a very even fight. I'm going to explain using actual screenshots, as this is not the first time there has been massive confusion about this.
At this point, Luffy does not know Rokushiki. He and Bleuno are almost a perfect match. Luffy expresses this equality by saying if this continues, it could go on for days, and they cannot defeat one another. His own words were "That's no good."
This is were Luffy first uses Gear Second. He pumps blood throughout his bloodtream, increasing heart rate, and swelling organs far by levels no normal human could survive. Because he is made of rubber, his organs are perfectly able to swell naturally without him dying. This is an explanation of Gear which I'm sure you all know.
Once he is in Gear Second, Luffy now knows that he can "assimilate" or basically "adopt" Bleuno's Rokushiki technique by copying it. Because he has learned such a handy tactic, he throws this vague statement out.
Now that Luffy has increased his blood pressure and can use Soru, he kicks Bleuno's ass pretty damn hard, until he finally figures it out.
This is the most important part of my little lecture. This line right here.
Luffy could NOT use Soru without enhancing his body with Gear Second.
Class dismissed. 
@Private:
Once he is in Gear Second, Luffy now knows that he can "assimilate" or basically "adopt" Bleuno's Rokushiki technique by copying it. Because he has learned such a handy tactic, he throws this vague statement out.
[qimg]http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j64/Glitzfighter/vlcsnap-3706363.png[/qimg]
So, that means that he was keeping up with Blueno on his own speed beforehand, right?
Now that Luffy has increased his blood pressure and can use Soru, he kicks Bleuno's ass pretty damn hard, until he finally figures it out.
[qimg]http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j64/Glitzfighter/vlcsnap-3706968.png[/qimg]
So, this means, however, that is Bluneo knows Soru too, that Luffy's is far superior right? Seeing as how he couldn't keep up with him. Also, doesn't gear 2 increase overall speed? If Luffy even did use soru in his normal state, his arms stretching would be no fasting, hence meaning that he could only attack without stretching.
This is the most important part of my little lecture. This line right here.
[qimg]http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j64/Glitzfighter/vlcsnap-3707157-1.png[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j64/Glitzfighter/vlcsnap-3707239.png[/qimg]
This statement is also a little confusing.
But why is Blueno impressed by this? He knows soru to after all. How can you use soru, and not have the ability to withstand the technique? It seems like Luffy is using some superior method of soru. It's likely that Coby could be in the same state, since he only used it once.
Luffy could NOT use Soru without enhancing his body with Gear Second.
[qimg]http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j64/Glitzfighter/vlcsnap-3707499.png[/qimg]
Class dismissed.
I think that Gear 2 is the cause of all that stress…
However, maybe gear 2 gives Luffy the speed needed to kick the ground ten times before to use soru, but who cares? I don't see how Coby knowing soru and Luffy "needing" gear 2 to use it is an issue. Luffy can keep up with soru just fine without it, as seen in his easy capture of Coby.
so luffy is useless witghout gear 2 am i right but why does he need gear 2 to preform soru and coby and the cp9 dont?
Heh, thanks for the explanation PZ.
@BlacAce:
so luffy is useless witghout gear 2 am i right but why does he need gear 2 to preform soru and coby and the cp9 dont?
This is a confusing issue. Why does one need to have the ability to withstand soru anyway? All the CP9 do it just fine. If anything, I think that gear 2 is a combination of soru and superspeed to move around. After all, Luffy for the most part was faster then Lucci, a master of roushiki.
Also, people are forgeting that fighters in One Piece can move fast without techniques. Look at Zoro, Sanji, and Mr. 2.
so luffy can use soru with out gear 2? im confused
please some one explain
the last image is not about soru : he said his body cannot keep up with gear 2.
I think Garp's training was physical. it was the improvement of raw strenght, speed and resistance.
Soru is a technique, not a speed. so the speed of the soru varry with the user.
for me, Cobby using soru is at the same speed than Captain Kuro. it's impressive but Luffy can easily beat it. and Elmepo is, maybe at the same level than Tashigi in Rogue Town.
and "using" a technique is not the same as "mastering" it. I think the CP9 were specials because
and maybe these techniques are fast to learn (not master, be careful) Nero was "a new CP9 member" and he already learned 4 of them.
Gear Second can greatly increase speed and other factors on Luffy's body, but he cannot use Soru without it. I don't think there is an actual reason as to why the Cipher Pol can use Soru and Luffy can't, but I think it's just there as an allusion to their stamina compared to Luffy's.
And we're forgetting that Soru is not the only Rokushiki technique. What about Rankyaku, Geppou, Kami-e, Shigan, Tekkai, and Rokuougan?
so for luffy to master it he must be in gear 2 mode but he can also use it without the gear but it will be much slower am i right?
Well… since he's never done it, how would you expect any of us to know...?
Luffy figured out Soru all by himself in Enies Lobby, so he can't have been trained in that skill previously or he would have known how it worked. And that makes me skeptical about Luffy having received training in any of the other techniques.
I think it's possible Luffy was too young to be taught rokushiki when Garp trained him, or that Garp didn't know rokushiki at the time. It's also possible that he never intended to teach rokushiki to his grandson, either out of fear that Luffy'd become a pirate or because he thought Luffy - for one reason or another - would not benefit from rokushiki as much as he would from raw strength.
Or maybe the one who taught Coby Soru wasn't Garp at all, but someone Garp asked to help with Cobymeppo's training.
Luffy moved as quickly as Soru without Gear 2, this is fact. He dodged many of Blueno's attacks and was able to keep up with him without using gear 2.
When he hit Coby, he did it without using gear 2.
Ergo, Luffy is as fast as soru without gear 2.
During Gear 2 however, he becomes faster than soru.
Lastly Luffy uses a variation of soru, and I really like what Joekiddos topic is suggesting.
you guys forget that at an early age, Luffy's training was trusted to someone else, probably due to the fact that Garp had to leave for the marines.
As for the topic of Soru, I'm sure Luffy could use Soru in a normal state, though whether or not he actually does, it's not specified. It's never mentioned whether or not he does use Soru in his normal state.
As for Gear 2, what it's basically doing is giving the body a massive boost in strength, it's like steroids. So with that strength, if you apply soru, that means he's hitting the ground 10 times in a split second with an incredible amount of strength, thus the massive speed gain.
If someone like Chopper were to hit the ground 10 times just as fast as Luffy in Gear 2, but not with an equal amount of strength, then definately Chopper would not achieve the same speeds.
There was a question about why your body would need to be able to be strong to handle soru. Well for one, if you've weightlifted or exercised in general, you can understand how tiring it is to run at full blast, or lift weights in quick sucession. Now, take that idea and imagine running 10 steps in one second, or curling 10 reps in one second. That's a HELL lot of pressure on your body, if you're not strong enough, that's going to tear your muscles apart. Assuming you could even perform such a feat.
Sorry private Zulan, but why did you go through that entire pictorial escapade when if only you had looked a few chapters earlier (in the manga AND the anime) and seen that Luffy CAN KEEP UP WITH SORU WITHOUT GEAR 2.
I think the real question here is did Garp create Rokushiki>?
Sorry private Zulan, but why did you go through that entire pictorial escapade when if only you had looked a few chapters earlier (in the manga AND the anime) and seen that Luffy CAN KEEP UP WITH SORU WITHOUT GEAR 2.
I think the real question here is did Garp create Rokushiki>?
QFT and because people need to see this.
I think luffy is perfectly able to use soru while in his normal state.
The way I read it, he was using gear 2 for two reasons:
1- He was probably testing his new technique.
2- He wanted this fight to end now.
so how come coby did mange to hit luffy if luffy coult a second before do soru
@BlacAce:
so how come coby did mange to hit luffy if luffy coult a second before do soru
Because he wasn't watching coby and was talking to zoro ?
When you see a cop in the street it means all is safe. If there was any danger the cop wouldn't be there.
–-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Praised be the name of archimedes for he was the first to show that, when a body is immersed in a bathtub the phone rings.
It was done without the knowledge of my own free will.
Sorry private Zulan, but why did you go through that entire pictorial escapade when if only you had looked a few chapters earlier (in the manga AND the anime) and seen that Luffy CAN KEEP UP WITH SORU WITHOUT GEAR 2.
I think the real question here is did Garp create Rokushiki>?
Hmm… I fail to see anything other than them being matched. Luffy only overpowered Bleuno when he used soru himself.
However, according to Luffy, this is his first time he has ever attempted to use Soru. Unless Garp tought it to Luffy inder his nose, I doubt Luffy knew Soru before he fought Bleuno.
Yeah, seriously. Coby was completely outclassed. He got a good shot in because Luffy wasn't paying attention. Notice that Luffy is REALLY REALLY pissed after he gets hit, because nothing pisses a person off more than a cheap shot while they're not paying attention.
Personally, I think Luffy did learn Soru. Hell, Lucky Roo could do it. (I still think that Lucky Roo is the fastest man on the Grand Line, which would be awesome). I mean, look at the fight with Kuro. Luffy was able to grab Kuro while he was moving at a speed equal to Soru and stop him. That means if Luffy didn't learn Soru from Garp, he at least learned how to recognize it.
The exact wording of that SBS, though… did Oda say that only Shukashi was at Soru speed, or that Stealth Foot was too? If Stealth Foot was at the same as Soru, then that would mean that pirates have their own version of Soru, which would explain how Lucky Roo appeared out of nowhere and plugged that dude in the head. I think it was only Shukashi, but it never hurts to ask...
@Fire Fist:
(I still think that Lucky Roo is the fastest man on the Grand Line, which would be awesome). I mean, look at the fight with Kuro.
Whoa… that got me thinking... did Kuro know Soru?
Luffy CAN use soru in G1, we just don't know if he does.
soru is merely the technique of hitting the ground many times in an instant to give you greater speeds, so from what the anime shows of Kuro, it's pretty safe to say that Kuro did use a variation of Soru.
his technique is incomplete though, since his eyes can't keep up with his movements, thus making him a danger to anyone around him, friend or foe.
I thought oda said in the sbs when he was asked if CP9 or Kuro was faster, that kuros ability was basically soru and that the speed was about the same, but he couldnet see during it (as wnderer-zero said). So unless im confusing reality with wikifiction I think yea oda said it's soru. If it is wikifiction or something let me know, ill fix my head lol.
It must be harder to kick the ground ten times in an instant if your legs are made of rubber…
Well, on the original topic, no I don't think Garp tried to teach Luffy roushiki, he may not have know it tens years ago, hey, maybe he doesn't know it now. Maybe it's the guy with the hat who taught Coby that one skill? Who knows.
Garp however, had different things in mind with Luffy. He sought to make him "a strong man." With Coby, maybe Garp just noticed he had an affinity towards leg power.
Interesting topic.
He probably did try to teach Luffy Rokushiki but Luffy refused to listen since he wanted to be a pirate.
What would a pirate that knows Rokushiki be like?
@Private:
Whoa… that got me thinking... did Kuro know Soru?
Go read the SBS's, they're in a topic on this forum. No, but Soru isn't fast than what he used according to Oda.
As for the original topic at hand, I liked the idea because tying him to a balloon could be a cruel and unusual way to try and teach someone Geppou 
So I imagine if that's what Garp was going for, the rest of the exercises could have been the same. But I agree with what others have said, Luffy wasn't disciplined enough to learn the art, he instead acquired the knowledge and body ability to perform them, without knowing what "them" is.
There's also the fact that, maybe Garp thought his current method of training would be best for Luffy? Roushiki does seem to have some disadvantages after all–like tekkai constantly failing. Then there's Luffy's gear 2, which overall seems to be pretty much superior to all the roushiki techniques, save maybe roukouogan.
These techniques are not all or nothing techniques. Lucci's soru is much more effective than Bluneo's for example. Colby's use of the technique is probably so inferior to Luffy's that Colby can't even keep up with Luffy's speed in his normal form.
I think that it is possible to move faster than someone using soru. I think some people are forgeting that it is jus a specialized move, kind of like gomu gomu pistol for Luffy. It's not like they become permanently faster, just once they use it. Luffy is permanently becoming faster, thus keeping up with people using soru.
Yeah, well obviously Soru depends on the user. Lucci's soru was alot faster than Luffy, and if it weren't for Gear's he wouldve lost. Coby however, used Soru and Luffy got 'em without the use of Gears.
that's exactly my point : Soru is just a Technique. what matters is the user. it's the same since the beginning of one piece.
Garp inventing Rokushiki would be so awesome I'd give up griping about Coby learning Soru.
soru is merely the technique of hitting the ground many times in an instant to give you greater speeds, so from what the anime shows of Kuro, it's pretty safe to say that Kuro did use a variation of Soru.
his technique is incomplete though, since his eyes can't keep up with his movements, thus making him a danger to anyone around him, friend or foe.
I disagree; Kuro's foot techniques are different from Soru. If I were to compare them, Soru would be more brute force and Stealth Foot more technique; Soru appears to be faster, but Stealth Foot is silent.
On that line, Kuro's inability to pay attention to what he's doing isn't a problem with Shakushi, but Kuro himself, and it's a tradeoff for being able to move more quickly than with Stealth Foot.
@Private:
Yeah, well obviously Soru depends on the user. Lucci's soru was alot faster than Luffy, and if it weren't for Gear's he wouldve lost. Coby however, used Soru and Luffy got 'em without the use of Gears.
I think Lucci's Soru was equal to Luffy's, not faster. Luffy and Lucci were pretty evenly matched until Lucci started using Rokuougan.
I think Lucci's Soru was equal to Luffy's, not faster. Luffy and Lucci were pretty evenly matched until Lucci started using Rokuougan.
Yes, well, Rokuougan is still Rokushiki so my initail point was still sucessful.
@Private:
Yes, well, Rokuougan is still Rokushiki so my initail point was still sucessful.
I don't get your point. Rokuogan is for someone who's mastered all six moves. Really, it has nothing to do with this topic, and it doesn't mean that Luffy's soru was slower or faster.
About this whole gear 2/soru debate, I think the only reason Luffy can't do it in gear 1 is because of the composition of his body. He just can't pump his legs fast enough, as his rubberness gets in the way of tensing the leg muscle to max. However, with gear 2, his physical strength increases and that's why he can move fast enough even to overcome his material handicap.
Either way, his reaction times are the same in any gear, so he can keep up with soru in all situations, it's just that he can only perform it when he increases his physical strength. I'm guessing as time goes by, he'll develop his strength so much that his final gear 1 will even surpass his current gear 2.
I don't get your point. Rokuogan is for someone who's mastered all six moves. Really, it has nothing to do with this topic, and it doesn't mean that Luffy's soru was slower or faster.
Actually, this entire thread has been off-topic discussing Coby and Soru.
Getting back on topic, I'm still under the impression that Luffy knew Soru, or at least knew how to recognize it.
Look at this:
http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-3/volume5.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=953
Luffy predicts his move even though it's silent. Pretty sharp.
And here's the killer:
http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-3/volume5.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=965
He GRABS Kuro at the same time he strikes with Shakushi. That requires that Luffy at least know somewhat of the mechanics of moving faster than the naked eye.
Ontopic: I don't think Garp taught Luffy any Rokushiki tricks, i just don't see any connection with his pre-Bluno fights….. but he could have known about rokushiki and taught the basics to Coby. or Coby have seen it used by some marine officer and either sought to learn it or copied it or thought it out himself. it would quite amusing seeing the small-frame Coby doing a tekkai =P
Offtopic: THe part which Luffy grabs Kuro , i thought it was Luffy waiting for Kuro to touch him and reacting fast enough to grab him. it's like how kenpachi broke Tousen's bankai.
offtopic: still thinks one shouldn't relate various speed techniques as same with Soru. it's like Sonido, Shunpo, and hirenkyaku does the same work in different ways. (pls dun mind me relating stuff with bleach)
This is a confusing issue. Why does one need to have the ability to withstand soru anyway? All the CP9 do it just fine. If anything, I think that gear 2 is a combination of soru and superspeed to move around. After all, Luffy for the most part was faster then Lucci, a master of roushiki.
The way I have always seen it:
Luffy could not perform Soru in Gear 1. Seeing from his experience with Kuro, we know he was able to somewhat see it enough to "catch up" (when he strikes Blueno), but he needed Gear 2nd to actually use the technique. Soru probably isn't something a person could just learn overnight, but Gear 2nd was a possible way of allowing him to bypass needing any real "training."
He saw the move, went "Hm, that's cool. I wanna do it!", then found a way to force his body to do it himself (sounds a bit cheap, but that's Luffy for ya).
Whoa… that got me thinking... did Kuro know Soru?
Going a bit with Terek on this one.
Kuro always looked more like he was constantly moving at that speed. Using Soru, however, looked more like a "sprint," forcing a person to move more like some sort of "living bullet" towards their target (which is why we see Lucci using it several times before getting close enough to strike Paulie in the mansion).
Kuro did not need to do such; he simply moved where he needed to, slowing down only when something (Luffy =p ) stopped him (though Shasuki[?] was an uncontrollable version of such).
