Chapter 431 "Fist of Love" Discussion

[kamisama603]

I still think Franky will join the strawhats crew. He is now a wanted criminal by the government. We dont know if Paulie is a wanted criminal yet, but I assume not.

Paulie will stay to lead the galley la. He seems like a true leader and everyone is listening to him. So I think Paulie will stay.

Franky on the other hand only have his family, which we dont know if they have a bounty or not…. assuming not.... Then in order to protect them from being harm by the government, he has to leave them. Since the government will be looking for him.

Besides... everyone in the strawhats like Franky... and Franky also like the strawhats. So its only natural for him to join, imo.

Well as for the chapter, I think its pretty good. Garp is most likely a D, he seems kinda powerful and had some connetion to Gol D Roger.

I think its pretty obvious that the person that Garp wants luffy to meet is his friend Coby. You can kinda see the bottom part of the round glasses on that panel. Since coby is there, than the other one has to be halmeppo you can tell by the chin.

I think Garp will tell Luffy and co... their new bounty, including Franky of course.

[ChopChopCannon]

@dazze01:

im gona say this again….PAULIE...... Paulie still has a chance to join the straw hats! for example:

Ice-Ossan: Paulie, I have a special mission for you.
Paulie: What is it Iceburg-san?
Ice-Ossan: Come to my office.
Paulie walks in mood music plays
Iceburg, staring outside his window
Paulie: What is it?
Ice-Ossan: Go with the straw hats
Paulie: But why?! I have to help rebuild the city!
Ice-Ossan: Do you want to become the greatest shipwright?! iceburg shouts
Paulie: ............yes......
Ice-Ossan: Then go with the straw hats, besides, the straw hats will be needing a professional shipwright with that brand new ship of theirs.
Paulie: What about you?! I can' leave you guys alone!
Ice-Ossan: Don't worry, all of Tom's workers are back.
Paulie: ........ walks out

Can I kill you now?

Anyway, I hope those two who came with Garp are Coby & Helmeppo, they look much cooler than they used to (from what we can see.)

[SuperJew]

For all the negatives that the EL arc had, those final panels are worth it. (It also reinforces how powerful the VA's and the Admirals are, yet begs the question of why the Buster Call VA's didn't just end it quickly when Lucci was defeated.)

Man. It's been a day since I read it and I'm still stunned. However, Garp couldn't have visited his grandson just for him to show off Coby and Helmeppo or just to show off his new bounty. I would like it if the Marines cut a deal with the SH's to go after Doflamingo or something along those lines, but I don't know how good that is for the WG to lose two of their Shichibukai (regardless of how problematic they could potentially be).

[bedrock]

Might there be a (temporary) split of the crew?
The new ship has to be built (from scratch), so there must be a lot waiting time. Perhaps Ussop will go to Elbaf for a while and Zorro back to Loguetown to return the remains of the sword the shopkeeper entrusted to him (and of course get a new one on his voyage). Would be a chance for some individual development…

[onemoment]

@SuperJew:

For all the negatives that the EL arc had, those final panels are worth it. (It also reinforces how powerful the VA's and the Admirals are, yet begs the question of why the Buster Call VA's didn't just end it quickly when Lucci was defeated.)

Man. It's been a day since I read it and I'm still stunned. However, Garp couldn't have visited his grandson just for him to show off Coby and Helmeppo or just to show off his new bounty. I would like it if the Marines cut a deal with the SH's to go after Doflamingo or something along those lines, but I don't know how good that is for the WG to lose two of their Shichibukai (regardless of how problematic they could potentially be).

Ah c'mon, do you think all the VAs are as awesome as Garp? If every VA could chase down the Pirate King then he'd be really overrated. The 5 VAs at Enies Lobby screwed up.

[kljs]

@bedrock:

Might there be a (temporary) split of the crew?
The new ship has to be built (from scratch), so there must be a lot waiting time. Perhaps Ussop will go to Elbaf for a while and Zorro back to Loguetown to return the remains of the sword the shopkeeper entrusted to him (and of course get a new one on his voyage). Would be a chance for some individual development…

why not? Oda might also spinoff Luffy, Robin, Chopper and Sanji as they go their separate ways…......

[Setzer]

You're forgetting one simple fact.

How in God's name is Zoro going to get to Loguetown by himself?

[bedrock]

@kljs:

why not? Oda might also spinoff Luffy, Robin, Chopper and Sanji as they go their separate ways…......

Perhaps it better be pairs … at least Zoro would need some companion (Robin:wub: ) if he ever was to find his way back. And wasn´t there a "island of cuisine" nearby? (go Sanji!).

Even if those episodes would be largely skipped (timeskip) in the manga, they could be great filler material for the anime.

[sabret00the]

If Garp does deliver the new bounties then Franky's definitely joining.

[joekido the Second]

I create an topic based on this theory but someone delete it without any reason why :getlost:

I've been thinking for quite a while, Since Usopp is not yet in the crew he may leave the enternal log to Elubaf behind for Luffy and the others to find with an note saying "Luffy, I'm in Elubaf. If you want me back in the crew, come and find me there"Usopp left Water 7 with Karsee and Oimn to Elubaf with Luffy and others still in Water 7, looks like they have to go to Elubaf to find Usopp. What do you guys think? I had an feeling that it might happen

[Gizmo]

@joekido:

I create an topic based on this theory but someone delete it without any reason why :getlost:

I've been thinking for quite a while, Since Usopp is not yet in the crew he may leave the enternal log to Elubaf behind for Luffy and the others to find with an note saying "Luffy, I'm in Elubaf. If you want me back in the crew, come and find me there"Usopp left Water 7 with Karsee and Oimn to Elubaf with Luffy and others still in Water 7, looks like they have to go to Elubaf to find Usopp. What do you guys think? I had an feeling that it might happen

Wait, isn't the second thread you made about this open? Or is it just me?

[rusashi]

Is Garp there with just "Helmeppo and Coby" or did he bring a crew of marines with him?

[raj]

God dammit. I feel so greedy because I want the Spoilers for 432 now. Damn you Oda. Your manga is the only thing on earth that makes me constantly wish it was the middle of the week.

[dinty]

When you boil down each character in any story, they're all going to fall under a 'cliche archetype' of some kind. Which is why you don't do that shit.

Well, it's a fairly common practice in English Lit classes, Mythology and Legend classes and Comparative Religion classes – to look for similarity by boiling things down to their essence : to their archetypes.

An archetype is a bit different from a stereotype. Maybe that's what's causing confusion. Let me quickly define them here --

An archetype is a symbol or pattern (no implied negativity) from which many variations are spun. It's like the master file on your hard drive, from which you make endless little "save as" files that are descended from the master file, but not identical to it.

A stereotype is a pattern that has been repeated so often that it has become predictable (implied negativity). This is more like taking the master file on your hard drive and cloning it many times, but calling it by a slightly different name each time, so that what looks different files is actually just the same file over and over again.

Does that make the two terms a bit clearer?

So if you look at these definitions, you'll see that there's nothing wrong with saying "Franky is an archetypal "badass crybaby"". That's not an insult to Oda or to Franky … But if someone were to say to you "Franky is a stereotypical "badass crybaby" – well, them's fightin' words!!

Why? Because that person is implying that Oda copied a predictable formula for Franky instead of inventing a unique character.

[Elric]

@gaara:

I also kinda have this feeling Garp will die (hope I'm wrong).

@theinvisibleworm:

I don't think Garp will die, that would be horribly morbid and unlike Oda.

Face it, everyone has to die eventually.

[Mearl Dox]

I like dinty's approach through methods used in literature analysis…

One Piece does qualify as "literature," even if it is children's literature, and it certainly calls on a lot of archetypes while turning them on their heads. Even overt comparisons to known children's stories such as Usopp/Pinnochio or Chopper/Rudolph are easy to make, but Usopp and Chopper are both complicated characters who were created with elements of familiarity.

In some ways, this use of archetypes can result in an even more interesting story just because it invites the viewer to make assumptions and then ignores those assumptions, startling the reader.

For example, this recent shock with Garp… isn't he just a throwaway side character? XD Oops!

[Spi D. Erman]

@Elric:

Face it, everyone has to die eventually.

Except GARP!! GRRRRR

[SuperJew]

@onemoment:

Ah c'mon, do you think all the VAs are as awesome as Garp? If every VA could chase down the Pirate King then he'd be really overrated. The 5 VAs at Enies Lobby screwed up.

I don't think all the VA's are as great as Garp, but for him to have cornered Roger and not become an Admiral shows why the Marines have been in power as long as they have. They aren't just a very, very large mob backed up by the Admirals, superior battleships, and a secret group that know a bit of kung-fu. I think that because of the failed Buster Call, people are severely underestimating the VA's, without realizing that they could beat everybody's favorite pirate crew.

[dazze01]

@ChopChopCannon:

Can I kill you now?

Anyway, I hope those two who came with Garp are Coby & Helmeppo, they look much cooler than they used to (from what we can see.)

no, you can't kill me!

anyways, i still think that paulie has a chance!

[onemoment]

@SuperJew:

I don't think all the VA's are as great as Garp, but for him to have cornered Roger and not become an Admiral shows why the Marines have been in power as long as they have. They aren't just a very, very large mob backed up by the Admirals, superior battleships, and a secret group that know a bit of kung-fu. I think that because of the failed Buster Call, people are severely underestimating the VA's, without realizing that they could beat everybody's favorite pirate crew.

Maybe, but as long as we can agree to this:

Whitebeard>Admirals>Shichibukai> VAs.

Besides, it's clear that the marines have some power, otherwise this wouldn't be an age of piracy. Still, I don't think every one of them has the power of beat the entire pirate crew at one–that's pushing it. I'm sure there are quite a few below Zoro and the like--that's still more then enough power to beat down a mob of pirates.

I don't think that we can assume that a VA is awesomely strong just cause of their rank. That's fine for the Admirals, Shichibukai, and the like. But the VAs need development first--like what Garp and Saul had.

I mean, the Admirals and Shichibukai got the foreshadowing that they're awesomely powerful, but the VAs didn't. Since they're high ranked we can assume they might be strong, but and the same time we can assume that some of them are fallible.

[ayanokouji]

if someone already posted this, sorry because i didn;t read through all the pages.

this is what i believe. Roger and Garp were friends kinda like how Coby and Luffy were. when garp says "i have someone i want you to meet" hes refering to Coby and Coby will walk out and slam a challenge on Luffy. He'll say something about how his dream is to be a great marine, and how he's been training forever, and how Luffy is moving towards his dream but so is he, and that the next time they meet he'll capture him or something.

Garp and Roger would have had a similar relationship in the past and that could be how Roger was captured when Garp "cornered" him.

[Elric]

Coby would be quite an asshole to arrest the guy that made it possible for him to follow his dream in the first place.

[gaara d. lucci]

@Elric:

Coby would be quite an asshole to arrest the guy that made it possible for him to follow his dream in the first place.

Let me ask this, do you think Luffy would quit if Coby got in his way of being King of the Pirates?

Coby may let Luffy slide once or twice, but he is a marine and eventually he may have to go after Luffy.

[Cochise]

If it ever comes down to it I would hate to see Luffy go easy on Coby.

Just my 2 cents.

[Elric]

@gaara:

Let me ask this, do you think Luffy would quit if Coby got in his way of being King of the Pirates?

No.

But I think there's a difference since Luffy's dream wasn't enabled by coby but coby's was by luffy.

I guess, if he was ordered to capture luffy, he would just try to purposely fail without making it look too obvious^^ .

[Polygon]

@onemoment:

Whitebeard>Admirals>Shichibukai> VAs.

Why are they even there? They aren't a rank, their strentgh differ between eachother.

[Zol]

@Setzer:

You're forgetting one simple fact.

How in God's name is Zoro going to get to Loguetown by himself?

Easy, he just has to go right! as he walks left Zoro will become lost and end up in Raftel by mistake.

[Spi D. Erman]

Hmmm. I wonder what Zoro is going to do about his swords. It's difficult for him to go back to using crap after he's been using very special blades.

Maybe he'll have to meet a famous blacksmith: HATORI HANZO!!

[dameon_reaper]

@Octogon:

Why are they even there? They aren't a rank, their strentgh differ between eachother.

neither is Whitebeard…its the matter of strength that they are talking about.

[Polygon]

@dameon_reaper:

neither is Whitebeard…its the matter of strength that they are talking about.

**Did you read my post?

The shichbukai aren't on a set level of strengh. One could be on top of the world, while another may only be mid-tier in the OP world. So we can't really say that the schichbukai > VA or vice-versa. Esp since we havn't even seen the VAs fight yet.**

[dameon_reaper]

sounded like you meant of rank towards the other ranks, not inside the system of the warlords but yeah I guess that's correct of what you said.

[kljs]

@Elric:

Coby would be quite an asshole to arrest the guy that made it possible for him to follow his dream in the first place.

it is STILL his job as a marine to ARREST Luffy….. doesn't matter if he will be branded as an asshole or whatever swear word there is....... if he doesn't arrest Luffy now, then he will have to later.........

[onemoment]

@Octogon:

**Did you read my post?

The shichbukai aren't on a set level of strengh. One could be on top of the world, while another may only be mid-tier in the OP world. So we can't really say that the schichbukai > VA or vice-versa. Esp since we havn't even seen the VAs fight yet.**

Why, of course the Shichibukai vary in strength–we can assume that many of them are stronger then Croc right--in order to be challenges to Luffy? Or maybe not. Still though, wouldn't you except them on average to be stronger then a Vice Admiral? After all, it's the shichibukai that feared in the Grandline.

Not saying that no Vice Admiral can be stronger then a shichibukai however--Garp's a strong competitor. Still though, I don't think that people would assume that being a Vice Admiral means you're stronger then an shichibukai.

Right now, the Admirals, Whitebead, Red hair, Blackbeard, and the Shichibukai are the strongest forces in the world, with only a few exceptions.

[_Bastard_]

@onemoment:

Maybe, but as long as we can agree to this:

Whitebeard>Admirals>Shichibukai> VAs.

I think this should be amended a bit…

Whitebeard > (Admirals||Shichibukai) & Admirals + high-powered (VAs or Captains) == Shichibukai & Shichibukai > Admirals

Pirates are the strongest people in the world, hence why we have the Age of Piracy.

The marines can keep most of them under control by the combined power of the Admirals AND the strongest VAs & Captains. No group can actually overpower the other.

Whitebeard does not seem concerned with either group.

Dragon and Shanks are up for debate because we haven't seen much of either of them. I believe they are at least Admiral / Shichibukai level (which is mostly speculation), but there is some evidence that the government sees both of them as serious threats. If they were so easy to dispatch and given their threat level, then I believe the government would have killed or incapicitated them by now. Given this information, I am drawing a conclusion that Dragon and Shanks are indeed as powerful as the Shichibukai.

All this can be crap though because it depends what Oda does with the story

On another note, I'm really excited to see the next chapter. Regardless of flaws in Oda's work, he is a master at leaving the reader at a cliffhanger / desire more.

[onemoment]

@_Bastard_:

I think this should be amended a bit…

Whitebeard > (Admirals||Shichibukai) & Admirals + high-powered (VAs or Captains) == Shichibukai & Shichibukai > Admirals

Pirates are the strongest people in the world, hence why we have the Age of Piracy.

The marines can keep most of them under control by the combined power of the Admirals AND the strongest VAs & Captains. No group can actually overpower the other.

Whitebeard does not seem concerned with either group.

Dragon and Shanks are up for debate because we haven't seen much of either of them. I believe they are at least Admiral / Shichibukai level (which is mostly speculation), but there is some evidence that the government sees both of them as serious threats. If they were so easy to dispatch and given their threat level, then I believe the government would have killed or incapicitated them by now. Given this information, I am drawing a conclusion that Dragon and Shanks are indeed as powerful as the Shichibukai.

All this can be crap though because it depends what Oda does with the story

On another note, I'm really excited to see the next chapter. Regardless of flaws in Oda's work, he is a master at leaving the reader at a cliffhanger / desire more.

I think…that covers the power debate just fine. Nicely done.

[bedrock]

@Zol:

Easy, he just has to go right! as he walks left Zoro will become lost and end up in Raftel by mistake.

LOL, … yeah, leave it all to luck!!

[Aethos]

ZOMG Garp is Luffy's Grand-daddy!

…Ah well at least that throws out the theory of Luffy somehow going back in time and becoming his own grandpa. XD

But that's pretty awesome though. I can't wait to see how things turn out now. I really think Luffy and Garp are going to catch up on old times. Even if it's a little different than the way Luffy and Ace did.

I agree though that it would be kinda nice if Lufy did get an offer into the Shichibukai but refused because he doesn't like being tied down to one place.

Oh and if Usopp does leave with the giants and goes to Elbaf and if there is a timeskip it'd be friggin' hilarious if Usopp came back all rugged and sporting DBZ style bulging muscles, chest hair, and a five o'clock shadow. Eh... I just thought that'd be funny in a way.

Still I can't wait to see what happens next chapter things are getting good.

[kljs]

@_Bastard_:

….Regardless of flaws in Oda's work,......

what flaws? please explain?

[MASIRa]

What I need, what I absolutely have to have…is one of those Galley-La Company t-shirts!

[Urian]

My theory for the future.

1. Garp is here for to offer the position of Shichibukai to Luffy. He will accept but under a plan made by all the Strawhats and plotted by Nami and Robin. Nami becomes the new captain while Luffy is out.

2. Sengoku offers special protection to all the Strawhats if they can make a special mission. Battle against Whitebeard pirates and win. WG plan is the indirect use of Whitebeard for destroy the Strawhats.

3. In some place Ace and Kuzan have a furious fight and no one can win the other.

4. Zoro loses against Shanks, Luffy loses against Whitebeard but at the end of the battle Luffy goes Gear 3 and Whitebeard collapses because the age, he was very sick and old and the last hit of Luffy accelerated his death. In the battle the main liutenants are in other place.

5. Ace and the other liutenants make a reunion, the objective is revenge for Whitebeard death.

First main saga: Arabasta (earth)
Second main saga: Skypea (wind)
Third main saga: Water 7-Ennie Lobby (water)
Fourth main saga: ???? a Volcano Island (fire)

The fourth big enemy for Luffy will be his own brother.

[Spi D. Erman]

Ffth main saga: ??? A Love-Love Island (heart)

Luffy will then fight Captain Planet, even though he's VA rank.

[MAcobo]

:blink:Is it me, or is Luffy one leg short on the color spread?:blink:

[Cakeduck]

Okay, here's the frickin' deal.

After being cornered by Admiral Coby for the tenth time,
the three remaining straWhats have the choice to use the time machine that
Franky and Usopp built in a hurry, or face a certain death.
They manage to get it working in the last second, but it malfunctions,
sending Usopp to one time and Luffy+Zoro to another.

• 36 years before the great pirate age. -

Luffy and Zoro land in the middle of the grand line, hitting their heads on a piece of rock.
They both get severe amnesia. Zoro's need for craploads of sleep turns into Narcolepsy.
Since there's no Coby in this era, they eventually manage to end up in Fuschia Village, East Blue.
Zoro hooks up with a chick, has a few kids, but Luffy's blood makes him itch to sail the seas.
He becomes a pirate, going by the name Gol D. Roger.
As there's no one of Coby's caliber around, his infamy skyrockets.

After nearly two decades, Luffy returns home for a short while and knocks up Zoro's 16 year old daughter.
Zoro's pissed.
He decides to join the navy, and using the name of Garp and a piece of a dog to cover most of his face,
he starts hunting "Gol" Down. During this time, Zoro's daughter gives birth to Luffy and Ace's dad.
The baby manages to give her an internal bleeding by kicking her in the womb as it exists. She dies. :sad:

After another 15 years or so, the navy manages to catch GoLuffy'DRoger, now known as the pirate king.
ZoroGarp laughs heartily as they shove long, sharp things deep into Luffy's body.
Then he goes home, adopts his grandson as his son, and never mentions Luffyroger being his "son's" true father.

What happened to Usopp, then?
Well, he eventually got his wish and became a captain.

PROOF:

[Polygon]

**It all makes sense now….

GENIUS_NO_JUTSU**

[MAcobo]

Okay. That is a… unreasonable theory.
And yet the same, it makes so much sense that it hurts.

[Myoti]

1. Garp is here for to offer the position of Shichibukai to Luffy.

Ah, I had forgotten about that…

I can see Luffy getting offered a Shichibukai position, though I really doubt he'd take it. -.O

[Aldrich]

@Cakeduck:

Okay, here's the frickin' deal.

After being cornered by Admiral Coby for the tenth time,
the three remaining straWhats have the choice to use the time machine that
Franky and Usopp built in a hurry, or face a certain death.
They manage to get it working in the last second, but it malfunctions,
sending Usopp to one time and Luffy+Zoro to another.

• 36 years before the great pirate age. -

Luffy and Zoro land in the middle of the grand line, hitting their heads on a piece of rock.
They both get severe amnesia. Zoro's need for craploads of sleep turns into Narcolepsy.
Since there's no Coby in this era, they eventually manage to end up in Fuschia Village, East Blue.
Zoro hooks up with a chick, has a few kids, but Luffy's blood makes him itch to sail the seas.
He becomes a pirate, going by the name Gol D. Roger.
As there's no one of Coby's caliber around, his infamy skyrockets.

After nearly two decades, Luffy returns home for a short while and knocks up Zoro's 16 year old daughter.
Zoro's pissed.
He decides to join the navy, and using the name of Garp and a piece of a dog to cover most of his face,
he starts hunting "Gol" Down. During this time, Zoro's daughter gives birth to Luffy and Ace's dad.
The baby manages to give her an internal bleeding by kicking her in the womb as it exists. She dies. :sad:

After another 15 years or so, the navy manages to catch GoLuffy'DRoger, now known as the pirate king.
ZoroGarp laughs heartily as they shove long, sharp things deep into Luffy's body.
Then he goes home, adopts his grandson as his son, and never mentions Luffyroger being his "son's" true father.

What happened to Usopp, then?
Well, he eventually got his wish and became a captain.

PROOF:

[qimg]http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3929/proofzno8.jpg[/qimg]

:applauding emoticon:

[Tsuchirinhon]

ThatProof is omnipotent in every possible form and fashion.

[4ghost]

For some reason I believe that Shanks holds one of the two unknown positions left in the Shichibukai. So the Shichibukai are; Crocodile, Bartholemew, Donflamingao, Jinbei, Mihawk, ?, ?.

Anyway it would make sense for Garp to be there with an offer from the world Government to make Luffy a Shichibukai. Telling Luffy that he's to make a decision by week's, or month's end. Or better yet one of Luffy's crew to suggest to Luffy that he will take it under consideration and have a reply by whatever time the Strawhats boat is to be finished. That stalling will be use to prepare for their eventual escape form Garps reach in their new boat upon completion. A clipper boat called the Cutty Flam that's fast enough to out sail Garps fleet.

[kljs]

@Cakeduck:

Okay, here's the frickin' deal.

After being cornered by Admiral Coby for the tenth time,
the three remaining straWhats have the choice to use the time machine that
Franky and Usopp built in a hurry, or face a certain death.
They manage to get it working in the last second, but it malfunctions,
sending Usopp to one time and Luffy+Zoro to another.

• 36 years before the great pirate age. -

Luffy and Zoro land in the middle of the grand line, hitting their heads on a piece of rock.
They both get severe amnesia. Zoro's need for craploads of sleep turns into Narcolepsy.
Since there's no Coby in this era, they eventually manage to end up in Fuschia Village, East Blue.
Zoro hooks up with a chick, has a few kids, but Luffy's blood makes him itch to sail the seas.
He becomes a pirate, going by the name Gol D. Roger.
As there's no one of Coby's caliber around, his infamy skyrockets.

After nearly two decades, Luffy returns home for a short while and knocks up Zoro's 16 year old daughter.
Zoro's pissed.
He decides to join the navy, and using the name of Garp and a piece of a dog to cover most of his face,
he starts hunting "Gol" Down. During this time, Zoro's daughter gives birth to Luffy and Ace's dad.
The baby manages to give her an internal bleeding by kicking her in the womb as it exists. She dies. :sad:

After another 15 years or so, the navy manages to catch GoLuffy'DRoger, now known as the pirate king.
ZoroGarp laughs heartily as they shove long, sharp things deep into Luffy's body.
Then he goes home, adopts his grandson as his son, and never mentions Luffyroger being his "son's" true father.

What happened to Usopp, then?
Well, he eventually got his wish and became a captain.

PROOF:

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3929/proofzno8.jpg

lol…... nice storyline there......but I think the Usopp part doesn't make sense...... lol...