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    Usopp is a mugiwara! Forever!!

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    • K
      kljs
      last edited by
      K
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      kljs
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      I am getting fed up with people hijacking my discussion thread about Oda drawing himself into a corner, so I made another thread for those who wants to argue about Usopp's fighting capabilities. Damn you all who hijacked my thread discussion!

      anyway, get this straight….

      WITHOUT Usopp....

      Robin would have long been taken on board the ship and left Enies Lobby towards Marine Headquaters!

      WITHOUT Usopp....

      Franky would have NOT reach the bridge in time........

      WITHOUT Usopp....

      No one would have delayed Spandam and the Marines from taking Robin on board the ship! (I have to mention this twice)!!!

      WITHOUT Usopp....

      No one would have Burned down the World Goverment flag. Because burning down the World Goverment flag makes Robin realized that she HAS Nakama that cares for her! This is freaking hell the turning point in their way to get Robin back on both fronts. Pyhsically and mentally or whatever-lly.

      WITHOUT Usopp....

      There wouldn't be 2 giants helping fight their way and block the marines from getting into the Tower of Justice.

      I would say what Usopp does are KEY POINTS in their WAY to get back Robin. Usopp might be a freaking coward and a freaking loser (like some people here like to say about him), but what he does IMPACT the flow of EVENTS that LEAD to Robin been SAVED.

      Yes, I admit that Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Nami and Chopper all did their part by beating a CP9 or two. Usopp on their other hand was beaten up. But HE did his part as a sniper......... and that's more than enough....

      I repeat again....without Usopp, no one would have been able to delay Spanda and the marines from taking Robin onto the ship.......PERIOD.

      Pro-Main Cast Evangelist. In Oda We Trust. TheJackAss Crew. AMC = Anti-main Cast. Luffy x Nami.

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      • onemoment
        onemoment
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        Several topics here are already Usopp topics, but okay. Maybe this will contain it.

        "The point stands, without Usopp the crew would be dead. Sure, other people have saved their lives, but that's nothing to ignore. Plus, he's done it a few times.

        Without the giants help, the SHs would be fighting marines for well…too long. They just barely reached Robin after all. Without Usopp beating those small-fry marines, all the Strawhats would have failed regardless.

        Ironically, even if Usopp's played the smallest part, without him even beating the CP9 would be meaningless, because they would still lose Robin. His actions ,while underwhelming are important."

        Polygon 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • joekido the Second
          joekido the Second
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          joekido the Second
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          joekido the Second
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          I understand your fustrations. Since I make a worst mistake if I just jump the gun so I'll say is I wish Usopp fans stop wishing for his fight and understand that Usopp will rejoin the crew without any fight.

          Currently writing a book

          https://www.facebook.com/redjoekido

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          • M
            Mr. Death
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            Mr. Death
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            Plus without Ussop who would have fix the Go Merry all those time it , was damged.

            onemoment 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • onemoment
              onemoment @Mr. Death
              @Mr. Death last edited by
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              Speaking of rejoining, I hope Usopp does some cool action that makes him want to join again, instead of Luffy asking him again after all the action cools down. That would be cooler and more dramatic, plus it was Usopp who wanted to leave in the first place.

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              • M
                Mr. Death
                last edited by
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                Mr. Death
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                Maybe Ussop will shot the final blow to lucci.

                changsho 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Polygon
                  Polygon @onemoment
                  @onemoment last edited by
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                  **I agree about everything said about usopp above.

                  but what really amazes me is how people treat his fighting abilities. He's not supposed to fight people like Jabura or the Mr.4 pair. He's supposed to fight someone like him, a sniper. You can't expect him to be able to fight Jabura or someone like him correctly if he is that close to them. But if he fought a sniper (the people he's supposed to fight) he'll be just about the only one on the crew who could defeat him. I think the reason Oda refrained from having an acutal sniper battle is because his previous weapon didn't cut it. The weapon itself was nothing, mere childs toy, only the ammo made a differance. But now he has a weapon he has made just for that purpose. So I'm certain next arc we'll most likley have a sniper enemy.**

                  Taleran 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • joekido the Second
                    joekido the Second
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                    joekido the Second
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                    joekido the Second
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                    Ah, come on man, Usopp don't need to defeat any strong dudes to rejoin, he has to ask Luffy to let him back in

                    Currently writing a book

                    https://www.facebook.com/redjoekido

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                    • M
                      Mr. Death
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                      Mr. Death
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                      Maybe he will take on either his father or that guy from blackbeards crew.

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                      • changsho
                        changsho @Mr. Death
                        @Mr. Death last edited by
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                        Na, he wanted to give Luffy a hand, but as Zoro said, if Lucci somehow escaped Luffy and attacked the crew… well.

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                        • Polygon
                          Polygon @joekido the Second
                          @joekido the Second last edited by
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                          @joekido:

                          Ah, come on man, Usopp don't need to defeat any strong dudes to rejoin, he has to ask Luffy to let him back in

                          I never said he did. Notice how I said I think he'll get a good sniper fight next arc.

                          joekido the Second 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • U
                            UsoppKing
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                            yeah, and think about this:

                            The Blackbeard Pirates have a top notch sniper

                            Who will fight Van Auger(is that his name?) if Usopp doesn't rejoin the crew? They'll all be killed before they can reach the island

                            "There are two things that are infinite: Human ignorance, and the Universe…but I'm not so sure about the latter of the two."

                            -Albert Einstein

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                            • J
                              Juicy @UsoppKing
                              @UsoppKing last edited by
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                              @UsoppKing:

                              yeah, and think about this:

                              The Blackbeard Pirates have a top notch sniper

                              Who will fight Van Auger(is that his name?) if Usopp doesn't rejoin the crew? They'll all be killed before they can reach the island

                              Of course he is going to fight Van Auger. Oda didn't introduce us to Van Auger just to show us that he can shoot ducks from several miles away. It will be interesting to see how Ussop will react when he attemps to fight in his first sniper duel, and how he will overcome the disabliity of not being able to shoot as far as Van Auger. (Although by the time the SH's meet the Blackbeard crew Ussop may have made an additonal upgrade to his weapon that will help him shoot accuratly over longer distances).

                              Polygon 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Polygon
                                Polygon @Juicy
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                                @Juicy:

                                Of course he is going to fight Van Auger. Oda didn't introduce us to Van Auger just to show us that he can shoot ducks from several miles away. It will be interesting to see how Ussop will react when he attemps to fight in his first sniper duel, and how he will overcome the disabliity of not being able to shoot as far as Van Auger. (Although by the time the SH's meet the Blackbeard crew Ussop may have made an additonal upgrade to his weapon that will help him shoot accuratly over longer distances).

                                **Or Usopp becomes good enough to do that by then.😉

                                List of what Usopp needs to be able to shoot from that far

                                1.) Incredible eyesight
                                2.) Scope
                                3.) incredible weapon**

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                                • joekido the Second
                                  joekido the Second @Polygon
                                  @Polygon last edited by
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                                  @Octogon:

                                  I never said he did. Notice how I said I think he'll get a good sniper fight next arc.

                                  That post was not aimed for you Octogon.

                                  Currently writing a book

                                  https://www.facebook.com/redjoekido

                                  Polygon 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Polygon
                                    Polygon @joekido the Second
                                    @joekido the Second last edited by
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                                    @joekido:

                                    That post was not aimed for you Octogon.

                                    **heh, sorry.

                                    I wonder why I keep doing that. it's the second time today and the 5th this week. :sad:**

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                                    • V
                                      Voodzik @joekido the Second
                                      @joekido the Second last edited by
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                                      @joekido:

                                      Ah, come on man, Usopp don't need to defeat any strong dudes to rejoin, he has to ask Luffy to let him back in

                                      Usopp is having a personal crisis of confidence because he feels like a useless weakling. Over the course of this arc, he has gotten his ass kicked twice and been saved by WOMEN twice.

                                      Explain to me how any of what he's done wil legitimately make up for the humiliation he'll feel when he's taken stock of all that. Not to mention the fact that EVERY SINGLE OTHER CREWMEMBER has as win to their name this arc of someone worth mentioning, and Usopp just has crap marines.

                                      Don't worry usopp your useful! For taking out weaklings the other chars could handle by blowing on them hard!

                                      Please. If Usopp doesn't get a serious fight, I will still be SUPREMELY dissapointed. The knew weapon, all that buildup….and this is the best we get? Come on.

                                      Riding a Rhino is safer so we Ride a Hippo for Adventure!

                                      ~Bobobobo BO-bobo~

                                      PS: I am a big fan of kittens:love:

                                      http://www.engrish.com/detail.php?im…ate=2005-12-25

                                      joekido the Second 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Malintex_Terek
                                        Malintex_Terek
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                                        @kljs:

                                        Robin would have long been taken on board the ship and left Enies Lobby towards Marine Headquaters!

                                        Yeah, I'm sure Franky had absolutely no hand in her rescue.

                                        @kljs:

                                        Franky would have NOT reach the bridge in time….....

                                        Uh, Franky got there before Usopp started sniping.

                                        @kljs:

                                        No one would have delayed Spandam and the Marines from taking Robin on board the ship! (I have to mention this twice)!!!

                                        You have to mention it twice because you have no valid points and that's all you could come up with. There's only symbolic significance to having Robin "pass through the gate". Franky could have taken care of everything.

                                        @kljs:

                                        No one would have Burned down the World Goverment flag. Because burning down the World Goverment flag makes Robin realized that she HAS Nakama that cares for her! This is freaking hell the turning point in their way to get Robin back on both fronts. Pyhsically and mentally or whatever-lly.

                                        Because Luffy's scream after that flag burning had no effect on Robin, Sogeking must have been the sole cause for her switch. He was pretty effective at talking Robin into returning on the Sea Train, too.

                                        @kljs:

                                        There wouldn't be 2 giants helping fight their way and block the marines from getting into the Tower of Justice.

                                        It's not as if the Straw Hats couldn't take out legions of Marines by themselves, and those two giants were already beaten. Additionally, though Sogeking said those things, it wouldn't have happened if he wasn't such a coward and he's not directly responsible for the damage they did.

                                        That's like saying Luffy is responsible for winning all of Chopper's fights because he invited Chopper onto the crew in the first place.

                                        @kljs:

                                        I would say what Usopp does are KEY POINTS in their WAY to get back Robin. Usopp might be a freaking coward and a freaking loser (like some people here like to say about him), but what he does IMPACT the flow of EVENTS that LEAD to Robin been SAVED.

                                        Like the minor characters do. Honestly, Galley-La and FF beating Oimo and Kaashi in the first place was just as significant as Sogeking convincing them to join, because had they not been beaten, they wouldn't have admitted they "failed their bosses".

                                        What Usopp always does is minor; if "major", it's major only as symbolism. As I said earlier, it's like crediting a waterboy for helping a football team win a championship because he was there to supply the sweaty linebackers with water and towels.

                                        @kljs:

                                        Yes, I admit that Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Nami and Chopper all did their part by beating a CP9 or two. Usopp on their other hand was beaten up. But HE did his part as a sniper…...... and that's more than enough....

                                        This sounds like how Lou Gehrig's team-mates on the Yankess used to compliment him on doing small stuff like walking up to the plate, when he used to be a comparable player to Babe Ruth before he was crippled by ALS .

                                        @kljs:

                                        I repeat again….without Usopp, no one would have been able to delay Spanda and the marines from taking Robin onto the ship.......PERIOD.

                                        Without any Straw Hat, FF or Galley-La, none of it would have been possible. Yes, Usopp is useful. A useful extra cog in a machine with much more important parts.

                                        MUV-LUV ALTERNATIVE

                                        Making Anime and Manga OBSOLETE since 2006

                                        PM me for details

                                        onemoment 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • 9
                                          9830982798299824
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                                          Usopp will get his moment and it will be badass. Oda isn't the type of writer to let all this character build-up go to waste. So for the moment at least, stop doubting.

                                          If however Usopp doesn't get his badass moment before this arc is over, then I will personally join all the Usopp bashers here and proverbially piss on Oda. Thankfully, this isn't very likely to happen.

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                                          • joekido the Second
                                            joekido the Second @Voodzik
                                            @Voodzik last edited by
                                            joekido the Second
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                                            @Voodzik:

                                            Usopp is having a personal crisis of confidence because he feels like a useless weakling. Over the course of this arc, he has gotten his ass kicked twice and been saved by WOMEN twice.

                                            Explain to me how any of what he's done wil legitimately make up for the humiliation he'll feel when he's taken stock of all that. Not to mention the fact that EVERY SINGLE OTHER CREWMEMBER has as win to their name this arc of someone worth mentioning, and Usopp just has crap marines.

                                            Don't worry usopp your useful! For taking out weaklings the other chars could handle by blowing on them hard!

                                            Please. If Usopp doesn't get a serious fight, I will still be SUPREMELY dissapointed. The knew weapon, all that buildup….and this is the best we get? Come on.

                                            Let me recap what I said in the other post:

                                            @joekido:

                                            Some Usopp fans are still not happy with the way Usopp develop in this arc, they wanted him to go what they predicate:

                                            (In the warehouse, after Kaku sank the ship)

                                            Me(really me): Usopp! Beat up Kaku!

                                            (Next chapter, Usopp is bandled up while Kaku is unharmed)

                                            Me: Shoot

                                            (Later, the SHP enters Justice Tower)

                                            Me: Beat up Kaku! Usopp!

                                            (Sogeking enters Jabura's room)

                                            Me: "Groan"

                                            (Jabura woke up and prepares to fight)

                                            Me: Usopp! Beat him up!

                                            (Kaku crash through the ciling with Zoro)

                                            Me: WHY ODA!!??

                                            (Now it's time to fight Kaku and Jabura with Zoro, Usopp huh? Where's Usopp?)

                                            Me: "LOL" He's hiding behind the cabinet! "LOLOLOLOL"

                                            (After the misadventures with the handcuffs, Zoro and Usopp becomes free)

                                            Me: Now fight Jabura! Usopp!

                                            (The fight want on for a few panels before getting 10 shigunned, nearly killing Usopp. But wait! Sanji saved Usopp and took over for him!)

                                            Sanji fans: AH HA! I knew it!

                                            Usopp fans: Nooooo…..

                                            Me: ..... Damnit! Why do I bother predicating? Whoa, now I'm whinning.

                                            (But wait! Sanji says "Go do what you can do and I'll do what you cannot do". The word inspires Usopp! Later he snipes up Spandam, keeping him from taking Robin; giving time for Franky to catch up!)

                                            Me: Okay so that's useful but why is some Usopp fan still clutching their fist in anger?

                                            I guess ever since the Luffy Vs. Usopp fight, Usopp fans think that for Usopp to rejoin the crew; he has to beat a strong enemies to prove his worth.

                                            But they forgot that if Usopp fought Jabura, that would give him the reason to quit the crew, and Robin would have been long gone. Usopp proved his worth already; He turned two Elubafan giants on his side, he burned the WG flag and he delayed Spandam's time. This shows that he does not have to prove his worth through fighting but through his actions.

                                            Usopp already wanted to rejoin the crew, that's why he dressed up as Sogeking because he does not want to show up to Luffy out of the blue and say: Luffy! I'm back! After going through an embarressing decision to quit the crew which would hurt the relationship between Luffy and Usopp even more.

                                            If he does not want to rejoin the crew, then he could have jumped off the Sea Train to swim away which he did not do. He lost his ship and he has nothing left to protect so he decided to go with his friends again to redeem himself

                                            Remamber, the whole argument between Luffy and Usopp was not about who's strong or who's weak; it's about leaving an weak person behind and Usopp tried to defend his ship by choosing to duel Luffy. Usopp thought Luffy wanted to leave behind the weak, Usopp saw the ship like a person with flesh and blood and believes the ship was weak but should never be left behind.

                                            That was the entire point of the duel, it's was never because Usopp was weak, it was to SAVE the weak.

                                            Now that Kaku (thankfully) sank the ship and had nothing left to fight, he knew why he fought Luffy, without the ship; his whole "staying behind to defand the weak" point was gone so now his olny thing left to fight for was helping Luffy and his co. save Robin and his has helped many times. That is who Usopp is, he duty is to help and protect, not to become an musclehead.

                                            We should be happy that Usopp is still with his friends, we should be thankful that he did not swim away.

                                            Theofore I will not be suprised after this arc ends without Usopp fighting. And if Usopp rejoins the crew without any fights and you are not satified then you can throw down your hat and storm away.

                                            What Oda does is telling the story, please don't choke him, it's his story, not yours.

                                            Currently writing a book

                                            https://www.facebook.com/redjoekido

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                                            • L
                                              Leaf Cable
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                                              I must confess: I personally feel that whether Usopp has a glorious moment or not, that won't affect my love for the overall One Piece story. I would be disappointed in regards to Usopp not getting a spectacular closure for his problems in this arc, but he would still be one of my favorite characters regardless and I could still enjoy the story.
                                              In all honesty, I'm more anxious about the arc wrapping up more so than Usopp's character development. If he's a lost cause, then oh well. If he becomes a badass, ship-sinking son of a bitch, then huzzah! I like the fact that he's the eccentric geek of the crew. I'll be forgiving so as long as he makes up for his disappointments in the next arc. That's just my two cents guys! Nothing against any of you and so on. 🙂

                                              The key to productivity is to rotate your avoidance techniques.~Too Much Coffee Man

                                              Name: Leaf

                                              Friend Code: 2492-3809-4869

                                              Yoska 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • onemoment
                                                onemoment @Malintex_Terek
                                                @Malintex_Terek last edited by
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                                                @Malintex_Terek:

                                                Yeah, I'm sure Franky had absolutely no hand in her rescue.

                                                He did, what's the point?

                                                Uh, Franky got there before Usopp started sniping.

                                                Did he? He showed up after Usopp's sniping finished.

                                                You have to mention it twice because you have no valid points and that's all you could come up with. There's only symbolic significance to having Robin "pass through the gate". Franky could have taken care of everything.

                                                I'm begining to believe in amorality, cause those could easily be seen as valid points. After getting through that gate, it's over, and Spandam was just a few feet away from it. Now, Franky could have taken care of that, or could he? Would he be fighting maries for just a few seconds, giving Spandam just enough time to ge past that gate? Who knows, that's not how it happened.

                                                Because Luffy's scream after that flag burning had no effect on Robin, Sogeking must have been the sole cause for her switch. He was pretty effective at talking Robin into returning on the Sea Train, too.

                                                And he had nothing to do with it? What about Robin remembering Usopp's "believe in Luffy" line from the train? Usopp contributed here too, it's not like Luffy's yell alone, did the trick, all that Robin went through before made it relevant.

                                                It's not as if the Straw Hats couldn't take out legions of Marines by themselves, and those two giants were already beaten. Additionally, though Sogeking said those things, it wouldn't have happened if he wasn't such a coward and he's not directly responsible for the damage they did.

                                                The giants got back up soon after, remember? Then were down, not beaten.

                                                Don't you remember? Zoro said that they could end up fighting those marines for a day. Regardless of winning that fight, Robin would be gone by then, and the Strawhats would be tired.

                                                Also, as I recall Paulie messed up and left behind Usopp.

                                                That's like saying Luffy is responsible for winning all of Chopper's fights because he invited Chopper onto the crew in the first place.

                                                You're really go you of the way here. Before Usopp talked to them, they were enemies. After, they were allies, it's a direct relation here. He definitely doesn't deserve no credit for that.

                                                Like the minor characters do. Honestly, Galley-La and FF beating Oimo and Kaashi in the first place was just as significant as Sogeking convincing them to join, because had they not been beaten, they wouldn't have admitted they "failed their bosses".

                                                You're really negative. All there efforts helped in this mission.

                                                What Usopp always does is minor; if "major", it's major only as symbolism. As I said earlier, it's like crediting a waterboy for helping a football team win a championship because he was there to supply the sweaty linebackers with water and towels.

                                                Eh, you're starting to get a point. My point is that Usopp is useful and without him the SHs would lose, yet and the same time this can be said for everyone in the fight, leaving Usopp indistinct from everyone else.

                                                He needs his moment to shine right? Eh, he'll probably get it in the next chapter or so. A ship needs a gunner.

                                                Without any Straw Hat, FF or Galley-La, none of it would have been possible. Yes, Usopp is useful. A useful extra cog in a machine with much more important parts.

                                                You could see it that way…or, you could see it as a strong team effort. Really man, you're good at putting negative spins on good things. That's a great talent.

                                                Malintex_Terek 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                • V
                                                  Voodzik
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                                                  If Usopp does not fight, it will dissapoint me. That isn't the same as not being in love with OP anymore, i'll just be sad. Not having Usopp fight after all that buildop does not, in my opinion, justify all the buildup he's gotten. I'm not trying to strangle Oda, I'm just saying I'll be dissapointed.

                                                  Riding a Rhino is safer so we Ride a Hippo for Adventure!

                                                  ~Bobobobo BO-bobo~

                                                  PS: I am a big fan of kittens:love:

                                                  http://www.engrish.com/detail.php?im…ate=2005-12-25

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                                                  • Malintex_Terek
                                                    Malintex_Terek @onemoment
                                                    @onemoment last edited by
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                                                    @onemoment:

                                                    Did he? He showed up after Usopp's sniping finished.

                                                    He fell in the water right below the bridge after being propelled into the air while climbing the stairs by Spandam's mine. Franky got there first.

                                                    @onemoment:

                                                    I'm begining to believe in amorality, cause those could easily be seen as valid points. After getting through that gate, it's over, and Spandam was just a few feet away from it. Now, Franky could have taken care of that, or could he? Would he be fighting maries for just a few seconds, giving Spandam just enough time to ge past that gate? Who knows, that's not how it happened.

                                                    Uh, I just said passing through the gate was symbolic and not really that big of a deal. So Spandam starts to set sail; Franky could easily have stopped that ship and the pathetic Marines guarding it. He wasn't that far away.

                                                    @onemoment:

                                                    And he had nothing to do with it? What about Robin remembering Usopp's "believe in Luffy" line from the train? Usopp contributed here too, it's not like Luffy's yell alone, did the trick, all that Robin went through before made it relevant.

                                                    You're making it sound like Sogeking's flag burning was some super-duper event. It's not, it's just a single step in the switch from Robin's priorities.

                                                    Our whole argument is that Usopp only helps in small ways, never major. That's a small thing. Beating the snot out of a CP9 agent is big in a manga that defines its characters by fights.

                                                    @onemoment:

                                                    The giants got back up soon after, remember? Then were down, not beaten.

                                                    That's like saying Luffy never lost to Crocodile.

                                                    @onemoment:

                                                    Don't you remember? Zoro said that they could end up fighting those marines for a day. Regardless of winning that fight, Robin would be gone by then, and the Strawhats would be tired.

                                                    I remember full well. I also know Zoro can cut rock and could demolish a building. Why not do that instead of have a sumo-frog block the entrance?

                                                    @onemoment:

                                                    Also, as I recall Paulie messed up and left behind Usopp.

                                                    Sogeking didn't seem extraordinarily unhappy with that.

                                                    @onemoment:

                                                    You're really go you of the way here. Before Usopp talked to them, they were enemies. After, they were allies, it's a direct relation here. He definitely doesn't deserve no credit for that.

                                                    It was cheap, coincidental talk. Frankly, I'd admire Usopp more if he did not have to rely on Oda's deus ex to give him a little shine, but that's beside the point; the giants beat up a thousand Marines and Usopp did not. He got the ball rolling, but only because it needed a small push.

                                                    @onemoment:

                                                    You're really negative. All there efforts helped in this mission.

                                                    That's irrelevant. We're arguing about why Sogeking isn't totally awesome and contributing significantly to this arc. Galley-La and FF accomplishing simmilar feats as Sogeking makes his character all the more pale.

                                                    @onemoment:

                                                    Eh, you're starting to get a point. My point is that Usopp is useful and without him the SHs would lose, yet and the same time this can be said for everyone in the fight, leaving Usopp indistinct from everyone else.

                                                    As I said, an extra cog in the Straw Hat machine; useful, but not integral.

                                                    @onemoment:

                                                    He needs his moment to shine right? Eh, he'll probably get it in the next chapter or so. A ship needs a gunner.

                                                    No, I think he's going to help out FF, the giants, and Galley-La with Kabuto; methinks someone will be needed to recover Luffy.

                                                    @onemoment:

                                                    You could see it that way…or, you could see it as a strong team effort. Really man, you're good at putting negative spins on good things. That's a great talent.

                                                    I would agree with the team effort bit except all the CP9 fights were done individually. While everyone works together to help Robin, they do their own stuff seperately that collectively get something accomplished.

                                                    It's just that what the other Straw Hats achieved cannot be compared with Sogeking yet. If he destroys Buster Call…yes. If not, well, I'd feel disappointed in Oda.

                                                    MUV-LUV ALTERNATIVE

                                                    Making Anime and Manga OBSOLETE since 2006

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                                                    • CosmicDebris
                                                      CosmicDebris @Malintex_Terek
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                                                      It's really hard to imagine that Oda isn't saving Usopp for a something big at the end, with the way the arc started. He COULD, theoretically, but that would be a huge failure on Oda's part and I really would be disappointed if he left such a big gaping hole like that. If not for the development that was started in the beginning, I wouldn't feel somewhat confident that there was something to look forward to.

                                                      And I do really hope that Usopp will retrieve Luffy somehow.

                                                      (ps…can't believe there's yet ANOTHER Usopp thread started here :P)

                                                      Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa

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                                                      • Ubiq
                                                        Ubiq @Malintex_Terek
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                                                        @Malintex_Terek:

                                                        Uh, I just said passing through the gate was symbolic and not really that big of a deal. So Spandam starts to set sail; Franky could easily have stopped that ship and the pathetic Marines guarding it. He wasn't that far away.

                                                        Neither were the Buster Call battleships, which could easily board Spandam's ship and put a stop to Franky's little rampage if necessary. I've not seen anything out of him yet that indicates that he can take a thousand Marines by himself, let alone several times that. Even if he Coup de Vents them, he can only do that a few times before he's out of cola (that's assuming that he hasn't depleted his supply of cola with any other attacks), so he'll run out of power well before before the task force runs out of Marines to throw at him. Even then, Coup de Vent isn't exactly an option as I doubt he wants to wreck their only possible method of escape.

                                                        The only reason that the Vice Admirals bypassed Robin and everybody else is that they figured that Robin and company won't get anywhere; I doubt that they would pass the convoy ship by so casually if Spandam is screaming his head off at them for help.

                                                        Complicating things since 2009.

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                                                        • captain usopp
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                                                          Terek, negitive people like you who have nothing better to do than biastly bash charicters infront of fans; your the reason I grow really tired of threads like this and why I am tired of talking. It's more productive to talk to a wall. I think a wall is more open minded.

                                                          know what people, save your breath. If we all egnore these close minded pesimists, maybe they'll go away.

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                                                            Aldrich @Malintex_Terek
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                                                            @Malintex_Terek:

                                                            Our whole argument is that Usopp only helps in small ways, never major. That's a small thing. Beating the snot out of a CP9 agent is big in a manga that defines its characters by fights.

                                                            (…)

                                                            That's irrelevant. We're arguing about why Sogeking isn't totally awesome and contributing significantly to this arc. Galley-La and FF accomplishing simmilar feats as Sogeking makes his character all the more pale.

                                                            Aye. That's the core of the argument. Usopp is the only main character with the duties and actions of a secondary, supporting character, sometimes even being outshined by said secondary characters. It does make him unique among the Strawhats, but I fail to see how you could think it's a good kind of uniqueness.

                                                            @Captain:

                                                            Terek, negitive people like you who have nothing better to do than biastly bash charicters infront of fans; your the reason I grow really tired of threads like this and why I am tired of talking. It's more productive to talk to a wall. I think a wall is more open minded.

                                                            Terek is a verbose, megalomaniac, holier than thou law student archetype; in other words he's the best poster here and AP would be way more boring without him.

                                                            You just know he's right and can't refute his arguments.

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                                                            • Buccaneer
                                                              Buccaneer @CosmicDebris
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                                                              @CosmicDebris:

                                                              (ps…can't believe there's yet ANOTHER Usopp thread started here :P)

                                                              Some fans are just relentless, to the point of being weird with their whining and justifying. "Rrrrgh Usopp needs to destroy Buster Call!" They're our favorite characters, but they're Oda's characters period. Would it be so great if he just did things our way?

                                                              Look at Nami. She doesn't have that big a following here, but someone would probably complain if she didn't prove her usefulness in this one instant of the arc. And what happened? The worst fight in recent memory. The only thing worse would be the "Usopp hurts Jabura's nose and uses Impact" fight many suggested. I'll push for her to never fight again, but I know she will, because that's how Oda gets down.

                                                              Terek seems rigid as hell, but I kinda agree. Usopp hasn't been that useful here. But has he ever? Is that why people seem to love him so much? He is set up for one, but if Usopp doesn't get a big moment here, eh. You can't review something until you finish it.

                                                              Originally Posted by Battle Franky

                                                              Bad move, bub!

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                                                              • Yoska
                                                                Yoska @Leaf Cable
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                                                                Jeez… Usopp is popular. So many threads about him. Threads about my very favourite character! Anyway, as I have said before, really the only idle OP character is Zoro.

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                                                                  Yeah, Nami was almost as pathetic. But at least she showed a couple of useful, new offensive moves, she looked confident and decided, and ended up with a win against a supposedly superhuman foe.

                                                                  Doesn't exactly make up for her being used as a half assed hentai character for half a dozen chapter and a useless luggage in general for the entire saga, but it wasn't that bad.

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                                                                    I like ussop but after him getting beaten up so much in this arc, I think he should get more of a badass moment to regain his self-confidence than just shooting some marines. Come on, just look at all the people he gets owned by:

                                                                    Franky Family twice

                                                                    Luffy (This was ussops best fight so I forgive this)

                                                                    Franky

                                                                    Kaku

                                                                    Blueno

                                                                    Robin

                                                                    Jyrabura

                                                                    I wouldn't be suprised if zoro and sanji try to see how bad they can beat him up too.

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                                                                    • Cap'n Carter
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                                                                      Why is every other damn thread about Usopp?

                                                                      The funniest thing I can remember was when somebody was AGNRY at a spoiler because Usopp didn't get to fight Spandam. Franky takes him down in like, 4 pages. Would Usopp doing the same thing really make people happy?

                                                                      I really have to agree with Terek and Buccaneer on most of the points they said. Especially Bucc's point about Nami "proving herself" in one of the lamest fights ever.

                                                                      the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit

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                                                                        igalsfy @Cap'n Carter
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                                                                        @Cap'n:

                                                                        Why is every other damn thread about Usopp?

                                                                        because people are bored. i hope that's why…

                                                                        The funniest thing I can remember was when somebody was AGNRY at a spoiler because Usopp didn't get to fight Spandam. Franky takes him down in like, 4 pages. Would Usopp doing the same thing really make people happy?

                                                                        same here, but that "somebody" is a pain in the ass with his 'usopp lacks character development' sickness so it's no surprise.

                                                                        I really have to agree with Terek and Buccaneer on most of the points they said. Especially Bucc's point about Nami "proving herself" in one of the lamest fights ever.

                                                                        while i really like nami, i gotta agree with you, she didn't prove anything else other than the fact that usopp made a nice weapon (character development, everyone!). yes the fight was average (lamest is a bit too much, imo. it will be beautifull once animated)

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                                                                          Aldrich @igalsfy
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                                                                          @igalsfy:

                                                                          because people are bored. i hope that's why…

                                                                          This is the only thing there's to discuss obviously since people will keep on replying to posts about that particular subject. But if you have better to propose, feel free to spark original and meaningful discussions, unfortunately after a couple of months of posting here you've already covered everything there's to say about that manga.

                                                                          The funniest thing I can remember was when somebody was AGNRY at a spoiler because Usopp didn't get to fight Spandam. Franky takes him down in like, 4 pages. Would Usopp doing the same thing really make people happy?

                                                                          Actually it took him one panel. So much for Spandam being the main villain of the saga.

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                                                                            Another Ussop "fight" this is really getting old -_-

                                                                            I love Ussop hes a great pirate, maybe he isn't the strongest or the fastest so what? thats why Ussop is such a loveable character, some might think that because he isnt strong like the rest that makes him look pathetic but I don't think so I think thats what makes him more real.

                                                                            People keep complaining that if he doesnt get a fight they will be dissapointed, so what if u get dissapointed? its not like this is going to be his last arc, he will get his chance sooner or later, and the funny thing is that this arc isn't over and u complain without having a clue about what will happen next chapter, I'm 100% sure Oda didn't get him a new weapon just so he didnt get a chance to use it remember when he shot Jyabura and he was surprise because it shot fireworks? or when he try to tell Sanji and Zoro about kabuto's secret? and I personally think that the reason is so big is so Ussop can handle its great fire power.

                                                                            The arc isnt over, i dont think anyone thought that the giants would get shot at, no one knows for sure how they are going to survive BUT they are going to survive because Oda doesnt kill characters if isnt in a flashback, some think Paulie's ropes will save them but i think theyre to heavy to hold them but Oda have a way to save them and everyone will say of course, why didnt i think of it! I'm sure that before this arc is over Ussop will have his chance to do something big maybe he really will destroy the Buster Call with his weapon, Luffy with gear 3 and using his axe couldnt do much to the ship when he was fighting Lucci but maybe Ussop can with his weapon.

                                                                            The arc isnt over and Ussop role in this fight to survive isnt over either.

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                                                                              Polygon @Guest
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                                                                              **Why does everyone want Usopp to fight this arc? The way everythings been presented, I think Usopp will get a proper sniper/gunman/markman battle next arc. Oda has forshadowed their next big arc will be Gyojin island, remember chu? I'm pretty sure it was said someone like him, but stronger was on gyojin island. Tis the perfect fight for Usopp. He does have a fighting role on the ship, a sniper. Before he spent too much energy on fixing merry, but now Franky here. I think Sanji's speech woke him up. If he got the keys before Sanji's speech I have a feeling he would have had ran to robin himself.

                                                                              So I honestly doubt he'll get a fight this arc.**

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                                                                                onemoment @Polygon
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                                                                                You know, regardless of this current arc turns out for Usopp, it's still given him an interesting development. True, he did spend a lot of tie fixing Merry before this. Now, Merry's gone, and the crew is getting a shipwright after this arc. It seems like after Usopp joins the crew, he'll be doing a lot more sniping.

                                                                                The present currently sucks, but the future's looking pretty bright.

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                                                                                  Polygon @onemoment
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                                                                                  @onemoment:

                                                                                  You know, regardless of this current arc turns out for Usopp, it's still given him an interesting development. True, he did spend a lot of tie fixing Merry before this. Now, Merry's gone, and the crew is getting a shipwright after this arc. It seems like after Usopp joins the crew, he'll be doing a lot more sniping.

                                                                                  The present currently sucks, but the future's looking pretty bright.

                                                                                  I couldn't agree with you more.

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                                                                                    Rat @Polygon
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                                                                                    I'm more looking forward to the conclusion of this arc, after they escape(supposedly), rather than who gets to fight who. Maybe I'm just a freak of the fandom, but I can't wait for Usopp to finally rejoin the crew in a big reunion of friendship and forgiveness that'll totally make everyone cry and stuff.

                                                                                    Christ, I KNOW it's shounen, but the genre's about friendship, too.

                                                                                    ~Rat, first mate of the Flametail Pirates

                                                                                    +_+

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                                                                                    • Cap'n Carter
                                                                                      Cap'n Carter @Aldrich
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                                                                                      @Aldrich:

                                                                                      Actually it took him one panel. So much for Spandam being the maiFn villain of the saga.

                                                                                      I mean from Franky's first punch to Spandam finally getting squished. Yeah, the actual owning was in seconds flat, but I like to count the whole encounter.

                                                                                      the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit

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                                                                                        Audity @Aldrich
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                                                                                        @Aldrich:

                                                                                        Aye. That's the core of the argument. Usopp is the only main character with the duties and actions of a secondary, supporting character, sometimes even being outshined by said secondary characters. It does make him unique among the Strawhats, but I fail to see how you could think it's a good kind of uniqueness.

                                                                                        Terek is a verbose, megalomaniac, holier than thou law student archetype; in other words he's the best poster here and AP would be way more boring without him.

                                                                                        You just know he's right and can't refute his arguments.

                                                                                        Can't refute his arguments? They're just opinions, situational what-ifs, technical jargon, and an over-use of analogies that don't work half the time, just to make sure he wins and NEVER…NEVER accepts anyone else's opinion, and barely ever listens to it without being so caught up in his own (rightfully so, but at least think of others).

                                                                                        We're talking about a comic. I would have used a forbidden curse word there but supposedly this place is a court room. Screw that (overuse of cursing in such a manner would be a bit lame, however). In a real, textbook debate, you're supposed to acknowledge of both sides, anyway. Think this is a pointless flamer post? Prepare to be surprised.

                                                                                        Um, okay, Usopp is a minor character oh no he's not doing anything major. He's supposed to be entertaining and weak. I guess if he didn't beat Chew no one would have been able to take out Chew in one shot, omg m i rite. Usopp is weak. Whoever he beats is going to be weak. Chew was weak. He had to team up with Chopper in his next fight, simulating Chopper's horns as Kabuto, so to speak. Nami gets this awesome weapon so she's good now (I'm well aware that the first incarnation of her weapon didn't make any sense, but dials don't either). Usopp just got a great weapon so now he should be able to do what people have wanted him to do all along, cause massive damage, yet STILL not take on someone one on one (some of you don't seem to care about that and just want something major to happen, which would be understandable). Okay sure you felt bad about the story during the Usopp events because you had a misconception about Usopp's character, but now it's all over. You can let go of your disappointment and/or hatred. These are my arguments? No. They're my opinions. You can't refute them. You disagree with them. I'll even change my opinions if I see fit to it.

                                                                                        Haha I'm not as good as the best poster in here EVER I GUESS I SHOULD JUST BE ELIMINATED because everyone else is a boring dumbshit who isn't a holier than thou law student archetype. Haha. What BS. I'm not really attacking Terek, mainly what the quoted post defended. I will have to agree to disagree with Tarek's way of doing things, in this specific manner, from now on. Usually when his posts are shorter and about different subjects he's a lot more understanding, however. Do I need quotes for this? Maybe. But not everyone needs to have something directly in front of them to see the correlation. See, if people let out their feelings, you get to know the person, instead of both sides just spewing opinions (sometimes apparently so-called facts). It's much more fun arguing if you know the person personally. Now that I've said this...backs out hehe

                                                                                        Thus concludes my

                                                                                        OP Mp3s/Cues/Mix/Croc

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                                                                                        • Malintex_Terek
                                                                                          Malintex_Terek @captain usopp
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                                                                                          @captain:

                                                                                          Terek, negitive people like you who have nothing better to do than biastly bash charicters infront of fans; your the reason I grow really tired of threads like this and why I am tired of talking. It's more productive to talk to a wall. I think a wall is more open minded.

                                                                                          I'm not a personal fan of any Straw Hat pirate, so I'm unbiased. Back when Sanji was beaten down I was also expressing disappointment at his failure to smash Califa, but I did note that it was a total defeat and was admirable. Usopp lacks even the admirable bit.

                                                                                          …

                                                                                          I'll get to the other points eventually, but really, none of you read. This is the Usopp topic to end all Usopp topics, it's not "just another Usopp bash". We're here because Usopp talk has cluttered up all the other threads. ~.~;

                                                                                          MUV-LUV ALTERNATIVE

                                                                                          Making Anime and Manga OBSOLETE since 2006

                                                                                          PM me for details

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                                                                                            Usopp will remain that way_!!_

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                                                                                            • Malintex_Terek
                                                                                              Malintex_Terek @Audity
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                                                                                              @Utena:

                                                                                              People keep complaining that if he doesnt get a fight they will be dissapointed, so what if u get dissapointed? its not like this is going to be his last arc, he will get his chance sooner or later, and the funny thing is that this arc isn't over and u complain without having a clue about what will happen next chapter, I'm 100% sure Oda didn't get him a new weapon just so he didnt get a chance to use it remember when he shot Jyabura and he was surprise because it shot fireworks? or when he try to tell Sanji and Zoro about kabuto's secret? and I personally think that the reason is so big is so Ussop can handle its great fire power.

                                                                                              We know Usopp is going to do something interesting in the next couple chapters. However, unless the Buster Call VA's are really tough, even destroying all of Buster Call wouldn't compare with beating a CP9. Yes OP is a manga about teamwork but in the end, there's going to be only one Pirate King and his followers. Being stapled as a member of "The Pirate King's Crew" is irrelevant if no one has heard of said member; look at Rockstar.

                                                                                              OP is a shounen manga and therefore puts great emphasis on fights. When Nami, the physically weakest member of the Straw Hat crew, defeats a CP9 agent in a hillariously bad fight, it just makes Usopp look all the more pathetic; in spite of Califa's character retardation and Nami's "helplessness", she still won. Usopp had his chance and fumbled his football.

                                                                                              @Utena:

                                                                                              The arc isnt over, i dont think anyone thought that the giants would get shot at, no one knows for sure how they are going to survive BUT they are going to survive because Oda doesnt kill characters if isnt in a flashback, some think Paulie's ropes will save them but i think theyre to heavy to hold them but Oda have a way to save them and everyone will say of course, why didnt i think of it! I'm sure that before this arc is over Ussop will have his chance to do something big maybe he really will destroy the Buster Call with his weapon, Luffy with gear 3 and using his axe couldnt do much to the ship when he was fighting Lucci but maybe Ussop can with his weapon.

                                                                                              As I said, unless the VA's are comparable to CP9, it is over insomuch as typecasting Usopp as a capable fighter. Not a strong fighter, but capable.

                                                                                              @Audity:

                                                                                              Can't refute his arguments? They're just opinions, situational what-ifs, technical jargon, and an over-use of analogies that don't work half the time, just to make sure he wins and NEVER…NEVER accepts anyone else's opinion, and barely ever listens to it without being so caught up in his own (rightfully so, but at least think of others).

                                                                                              I use what-ifs and analogies because people have an easier time grasping them. I personally favour jargon and vocabulary, and discussion forums/debates are founded on opinions. Analogy: calling all of my posts "opinion" is like calling a kettle black.

                                                                                              @Audity:

                                                                                              We're talking about a comic. I would have used a forbidden curse word there but supposedly this place is a court room. Screw that (overuse of cursing in such a manner would be a bit lame, however). In a real, textbook debate, you're supposed to acknowledge of both sides, anyway. Think this is a pointless flamer post? Prepare to be surprised.

                                                                                              See, I've always acknowledged "both sides of the debate" but people NEVER SEEM TO NOTICE. I'm 100% behind you lot in agreeing that Usopp will do something pretty cool in the next few chapters, but I'm also saying that since we've a good idea on what it might be, it still isn't all that impressive. Usopp is the only character in OP that needs development; Oda got all the character evolution and training finished in flashbacks, so now the Straw Hat pirates are at the top of their game and are taking Grand Line, the proverbial bull, by the horns.

                                                                                              @Audity:

                                                                                              Um, okay, Usopp is a minor character oh no he's not doing anything major. He's supposed to be entertaining and weak. I guess if he didn't beat Chew no one would have been able to take out Chew in one shot, omg m i rite. Usopp is weak. Whoever he beats is going to be weak. Chew was weak. He had to team up with Chopper in his next fight, simulating Chopper's horns as Kabuto, so to speak. Nami gets this awesome weapon so she's good now (I'm well aware that the first incarnation of her weapon didn't make any sense, but dials don't either). Usopp just got a great weapon so now he should be able to do what people have wanted him to do all along, cause massive damage, yet STILL not take on someone one on one (some of you don't seem to care about that and just want something major to happen, which would be understandable). Okay sure you felt bad about the story during the Usopp events because you had a misconception about Usopp's character, but now it's all over. You can let go of your disappointment and/or hatred. These are my arguments? No. They're my opinions. You can't refute them. You disagree with them.

                                                                                              Usopp started off weak, but his dream is to become a "great warrior", which implies he's going to turn into a monster by the end of the series. He's always been an entertaining character, but since we, the audience, are expecting development from him it's a bit tiring to see him running around in circles during an arc that's been significantly devoted to him.

                                                                                              @Audity:

                                                                                              Haha I'm not as good as the best poster in here EVER I GUESS I SHOULD JUST BE ELIMINATED because everyone else is a boring dumbshit who isn't a holier than thou law student archetype. Haha. What BS. I'm not really attacking Terek, mainly what the quoted post defended. I will have to agree to disagree with Tarek's way of doing things, in this specific manner, from now on. Usually when his posts are shorter and about different subjects he's a lot more understanding, however. Do I need quotes for this? Maybe. But not everyone needs to have something directly in front of them to see the correlation. See, if people let out their feelings, you get to know the person, instead of both sides just spewing opinions (sometimes apparently so-called facts). It's much more fun arguing if you know the person personally. Now that I've said this…backs out hehe

                                                                                              Well, the main problem with debating here is that people treat arguments personally, like they're extensions of oneself; they're actually possessions that can be freely traded away. As Buccaneer pointed out, I'm pretty rigid in what I think because I've yet to be given any sort of compelling argument to convince me I'm in err.

                                                                                              When I say something people dislike and get ten comments of how "I'm wrong" or, "I disagree" without counter points, it's tiring. I get this sort of stuff all the time at ANN; I use some economics in my explanations and people say, "stfu, u dun no what ur talking aboot".

                                                                                              Confirmation bias; only look and cite at evide…no, a picture would be more appropriate in illustrating this point.

                                                                                              MUV-LUV ALTERNATIVE

                                                                                              Making Anime and Manga OBSOLETE since 2006

                                                                                              PM me for details

                                                                                              onemoment 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                                                                                                dazze01
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                                                                                                D
                                                                                                spiral
                                                                                                dazze01
                                                                                                spiral

                                                                                                Usopp might still have another fight in this arc, for he tried telling Sanji and Zoro Kabuto's secret. Usopp/Sogeking might show this so called SECRET in upcoming chapters. For me I am gonna wait for his next golden moment…

                                                                                                Elric 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                • onemoment
                                                                                                  onemoment @Malintex_Terek
                                                                                                  @Malintex_Terek last edited by
                                                                                                  onemoment
                                                                                                  spiral
                                                                                                  onemoment
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                                                                                                  @Malintex_Terek:

                                                                                                  [qimg]http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/3117/sciencereligionme6.gif[/qimg]

                                                                                                  Wow, informative comic there, and it makes a lot of sense. And I guess it's true, the "facts" right now point to sucking for Usoop. However, the difference with this argument though is that all the facts aren't in yet.

                                                                                                  I keep saying..the arc's not done yet. Usopp "fell" in the Water 7 arc, and he'll have to rise again in this arc..or the next (but I hope not).

                                                                                                  However, the "facts" at least point to the conclusion that the SHs couldn't have won without Usopp, or , yes, any of the crew for that matter. Remove one small cog from a machine and it falls apart. Now he just needs to prove his worth.

                                                                                                  Zephos 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                  • Zephos
                                                                                                    Zephos @onemoment
                                                                                                    @onemoment last edited by
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                                                                                                    Zephos
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                                                                                                    As Tereks's arch enemy on this subject…I actually find myself in agreement with his principles over the often pathetic arguements that stand on the same side of the line as me.

                                                                                                    Like I'm Retsudo, he's Ogami, and the folks in question are Abeno Kaii.
                                                                                                    I'll still kill Terek , but in an honorable duel. Instead of all this whiny "I'm afraid of argueing" shit.
                                                                                                    Though in that comparison that means I'll be killed by Terek's son...well we'll see.

                                                                                                    And hijacking aye? I'd say we IMPROVED the thread. uu

                                                                                                    Malintex_Terek 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                    • Malintex_Terek
                                                                                                      Malintex_Terek @Zephos
                                                                                                      @Zephos last edited by
                                                                                                      Malintex_Terek
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                                                                                                      Malintex_Terek
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                                                                                                      @Zephos: Ok…

                                                                                                      @onemoment:

                                                                                                      However, the "facts" at least point to the conclusion that the SHs couldn't have won without Usopp, or , yes, any of the crew for that matter. Remove one small cog from a machine and it falls apart. Now he just needs to prove his worth.

                                                                                                      :cwy:

                                                                                                      MUV-LUV ALTERNATIVE

                                                                                                      Making Anime and Manga OBSOLETE since 2006

                                                                                                      PM me for details

                                                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                      • Elric
                                                                                                        Elric @dazze01
                                                                                                        @dazze01 last edited by
                                                                                                        Elric
                                                                                                        spiral
                                                                                                        Elric
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                                                                                                        @dazze01:

                                                                                                        Usopp might still have another fight in this arc, for he tried telling Sanji and Zoro Kabuto's secret. Usopp/Sogeking might show this so called SECRET in upcoming chapters. For me I am gonna wait for his next golden moment…

                                                                                                        maybe he was just talking about what we have already seen from kabuto.

                                                                                                        Yibis One Piece Fansubs

                                                                                                        http://yibis.com - #yibis@irc.rizon.net

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