Chapter 432 "Jack in the Box" Discussion

Kryptik

The Marines of the OP world follow the British system of Naval/Marine rankings, so I do not think Smoker's a VA just yet; it's more likely he was promoted one rank to Commodore. Tashigi isn't even an officer; she's enlisted, which would mean Marine rankings apply to her. If she was a Master Sergeant, she's now a Sergeant Major.

In rare cases (like war) enlisted can become officers; my Grandfather was an enlisted Marine in WWII and he became an officer (I think he was a Captain, though I am not sure).

EDIT: Dang, Smoker's ahead of Saul! The same goes for Tashigi and Hina!Maybe they did jump two ranks? Yargh. o.O

Tashigi was a Sergeant Major before, though, wasn't she? Or something equivalent (Wiki lists her as "Master Chief Petty Officer")?

Malintex_Terek

@Mog:

For Tashigi to go from Sergeant Major (Her old rank) to Captain would, I believe, require seven ranks to be jumped, not two. For Smoker, going from Captain to Vice Admiral would mean a triple promotion.

No, that's not what I meant. I was debating with myself with whether or not Tashigi was an officer or an enlisted; if she was an enlisted, yes, about seven ranks, but as an officer that would mean she was a Lieutenaunt Commander.

EDIT: Also, regarding Smoker, I said two ranks because we've yet to see any Rear Admirals in OP but we've seen a fudgeload of VA's, moreso than any other officer except "captain" during Buster Call. It seems plausible to me that Oda melded the two ranks into one.

taboo

@DesertSpada:

Has to be. Coby is about 2X his size, and Helmeppo is a head taller, both of them are MUCH stronger than before. That much time COULDN'T have passed.

Luffy's gotten alot taller too.

Mog

It seems plausible to me that Oda melded the two ranks into one.

Uh, the very latest chapter still shows them being, you know, pretty separate. I can't see where you're coming from, but even then it's just pure speculation.

I also don't quite get what you're curious about with Tashigi. She was a Sergeant Major, meaning she wasn't an officer if that's what you meant.

Juicy

I was hoping that one of the emperors would be Shank's and Buggy's captain when they were trainee pirates, but no of them look like him..:sad:

Also it was mentioned that Dragon is the leader of a revolutionary looking to overthrow the WG. I'm wondering if we met and of the members of this group other than Dragon. I think Flamingo might be one of the revolutionaries. When Flamingo was torturing Bellamy Flamingo mentioned a new era of pirates according to Stephen's script. This new era of pirates that he was mentioning could be pirates who have the objective to overthrow the WG aka the revolutionaries. Also it would be benificial to Dragon to have somebody in his group to be on the inside. Even though Oda never clarified whether or not Dragon was a pirate, anybody who travels the oceans and does something that degrades the WG in some way is considered a pirate no matter how much of a danger they are to the WG, IMO.

Malintex_Terek

@Mog:

Uh, the very latest chapter still shows them being, you know, pretty separate. I can't see where you're coming from, but even then it's just pure speculation.

What the fudge are you talking about?

@Mog:

I also don't quite get what you're curious about with Tashigi. She was a Sergeant Major, meaning she wasn't an officer if that's what you meant.

I've never seen Tashigi's rank mentioned anywhere in the manga; the only place I ever heard it mentioned was on Wikipedia years ago as a "Chief Petty Officer" or a "Lieutenant", so I'm quite confused as to whether or not she actually is an enlisted or an officer. Since the concensus on this forum seems to be "enlisted" that's what I went with.

Elric

@Octogon:

Agreed.
Though he can most likley whoop Luffy with his hands in his ass, I don't see him taking down Garp. Not easily at least.

@onemoment:

Also, about Dragon vs. Garp…I doubt Garp would lose. It's possible, but Garp is his father after all--he'll always have that edge. Unless Dragon is a rebel to the point of being mericiless to his parents.

I think the leader of the only group that can currently hope to topple the WG, which also happens to be a man smoker didn't even try to attack, shouldn't have problems defeating even the strongest vice admiral.

Mog

I've never seen Tashigi's rank mentioned anywhere in the manga; the only place I ever heard it mentioned was on Wikipedia years ago as a "Chief Petty Officer" or a "Lieutenant", so I'm quite confused as to whether or not she actually is an enlisted or an officer. Since the concensus on this forum seems to be "enlisted" that's what I went with.

Her rank was mentioned pretty clearly when she was introduced, in one of those neat introduction boxes.

What the fudge are you talking about?

You say Oda might have taken Rear Admiral and Vice Admiral and melded them together into one, which, you know, isn't very possible if they're still mentioned to be two separate ranks.

Unless you were inferring something else entirely, in which case I'll throw that question right back at you.

Malintex_Terek

@Mog:

Her rank was mentioned pretty clearly when she was introduced, in one of those neat introduction boxes.

Ahh, I see what you're saying.

@Mog:

You say Oda might have taken Rear Admiral and Vice Admiral and melded them together into one, which, you know, isn't very possible if they're still mentioned to be two separate ranks.

Where? The SBS?

Elric

@Malintex_Terek:

Tashigi's rank

@http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter098.txt:

[Marine Headquarters Sergeant Major]
[Tashigi]

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 16 characters.

Mog

Where? The SBS?

Uh, the latest chapter, which had a rundown of Marine ranks as the first page.

Stephen's scripts are good for you.

Elric

@Malintex_Terek:

Where? The SBS?

@http://arlongpark.net/Manga/SBS/8:

D: I don't understand the Marines system very well. Is the captain [Taisa] the highest rank? Is Coby at the headquarters? Or a base?? Where does Captain [Taii] Fullbody stand?

O: (Note that with these officers, some may translate to the same word, which is why I put the Japanese in too.)
(Government) World Leaders (Higher than Marines)
|
Admiral [Gensui] (top of the Marines) Marine Officers
M Admiral [Taishou] - A Vice-admiral [Chuujou] - Rear Admiral [Shoushou] - Commodore [Junshou] | R Captain [Taisa] - Commander [Chuusa] - Major [Shousa] | I Captain [Taii] - First Lieutenant [Chuui] - Second Lieutenant [Shoui] - N Warrant-officer [Juni] E Sergeant Major [Souchou] - Sergeant [Gunsou] - Corporal [Gochou] S Private First Class [Ittouhei] - Private [Nitouhei] - Private (Recruit) [Sanchouhei]
Odd Jobs [Zatsuyou]

This is it. This is the entire explanation of the Marines system in the world of "One Piece". The base Coby is in is the 153th branch. Officers of the rank of Captain [Taisa] and above command the bases spread out all over the world. I wonder when the day will come when Coby becomes an officer.

edit:

@Mog:

Uh, the latest chapter, which had a rundown of Marine ranks as the first page.Stephen's scripts are good for you.

yes, that one's much more clearly ^_^'

Polygon

@Elric:

I think the leader of the only group that can currently hope to topple the WG, which also happens to be a man smoker didn't even try to attack, shouldn't have problems defeating even the strongest vice admiral.

**Shouldn't have problems? Who do you think Garp is.

And the thing you have to take into account is that Garp is Dragon's father.**

Elric

@Octogon:

And the thing you have to take into account is that Garp is Dragon's father.

That's a storytelling matter i too think should be taken into account but as far as "who do you think garp is?" is concerned i'd say:"who do you think dragon is?".

Polygon

@Elric:

That's a storytelling matter i too think should be taken into account but as far as "who do you think garp is?" is concerned i'd say:"who do you think dragon is?".

**Who I think Dragon is? Garp's boy. And Garp's boy happens to be on the verge of toppling the World Government.

And Dragon's daddy is the man who has cornered the Pirate King on several occasions.

Dragon is a tough guy who happens to be the son of a tough guy.**

onemoment

@Octogon:

**Who I think Dragon is? Garp's boy. And Garp's boy happens to be on the verge of toppling the World Government.

And Dragon's daddy is the man who has cornered the Pirate King on several occasions.

Dragon is a tough guy who happens to be the son of a tough guy.**

All good points but, I can't imagine Garp bring the one to stop a "Dragon arc." Plus, I'd imagine that Dragon might put safeguards against his father–he must have an army after all.

That's the thing, both these men must know each other. Yet, Dragon may be about 40 and Garp around 60. Unlike Luffy, Dragon may have shaken off some of his childhood naviety. Also, there's the fact that Garp is most likely below the Admirals (in strength alone) and none of them have the power to topple the Government.

Add to that the fact that Dragon "might" be a logia and things get complicated. Garp seems to be just a strong physical fighter, which still has it's limits in the One Piece world.

Polygon

@onemoment:

All good points but, I can't imagine Garp bring the one to stop a "Dragon arc." Plus, I'd imagine that Dragon might put safeguards against his father–he must have an army after all.

That's the thing, both these men must know each other. Yet, Dragon may be about 40 and Garp around 60. Unlike Luffy, Dragon may have shaken off some of his childhood naviety. Also, there's the fact that Garp is most likely below the Admirals (in strength alone) and none of them have the power to topple the Government.

Add to that the fact that Dragon "might" be a logia and things get complicated. Garp seems to be just a strong physical fighter, which still has it's limits in the One Piece world.

**Dragon alone doesn't have the power to topple the WG either…

But I just can't see Dragon being able to beat Garp easily. To me it looks like Garp is more famous, because he cornered a man who was a legend among the greatest of legends. Dragon is slightly less or the same level of fame, but more mysterious.**

onemoment

@Octogon:

**Dragon alone doesn't have the power to topple the WG either…

But I just can't see Dragon being able to beat Garp easily. To me it looks like Garp is more famous, because he cornered a man who was a legend among the greatest of legends. Dragon is slightly less or the same level of fame, but more mysterious.**

Well, Garp is famous, but everyone in the current area knew his name except for Luffy. Dragon is myserious, yet "infamous." The entire world knows about im too, as seen in that meeting of Kingdoms.

And no, I doubt a Dragon X Garp fight would be easy, but I just can't imagine that a man who is trying to topple the WG wouldn't be prepared for his father. He's a marine after all, so there's the change that they'll meet.

Polygon

@onemoment:

Well, Garp is famous, but everyone in the current area knew his name except for Luffy. Dragon is myserious, yet "infamous." The entire world knows about im too, as seen in that meeting of Kingdoms.

**The enitre world knows about Garp aswell, exept for people like Luffy.

And being infamous just means your famous for "bad" reasons.**

And no, I doubt a Dragon X Garp fight would be easy, but I just can't imagine that a man who is trying to topple the WG wouldn't be prepared for his father. He's a marine after all, so there's the change that they'll meet.

@Elric:

I think the leader of the only group that can currently hope to topple the WG, which also happens to be a man smoker didn't even try to attack, shouldn't have problems defeating even the strongest vice admiral.

So I pretty much agree with you. But if Dragon would be ready for Garp, it would probaley work the other way as well.

Elric

@Octogon:

**So I pretty much agree with you. But if Dragon would be ready for Garp, it would probaley work the other way as well.

Think of the implications of garp's words:

Other than the pirates dragon can hope to go againt the government so

Dragon+Army=Stronger than (for example) Whitebeard+Army.

And whitebeard commands one hell of an army so dragon himself should be very tough!

And think about how powerful dragon must be if a logia(!) with a seastone weapon (!!) didn't even try to go after him.

I must admit though that this "topple the government"-thing doesn't necessarily mean dragon is as strong as whitbeard and the likes. He could rely on an even more powerfull army than whitebeard or other special means to damage the WG that the pirates don't have.

But the encounter with smoker still stands and can't be brushed aside just like that.**

Polygon

@Elric:

Think of the implications of garp's words:

Other than the pirates dragon can hope to go againt the government so

Dragon+Army=Stronger than (for example) Whitebeard+Army.

And whitebeard commands one hell of an army so dragon himself should be very tough!

**Robin said that generally pirates don't try and go directly against the government, they are just there.

That's the difference. Whitebeard is a powerful criminal, Dragon is a powerful criminal who wants take the WG down.**

And think about how powerful dragon must be if a logia(!) with a seastone weapon (!!) didn't even try to go after him.

I must admit though that this "topple the government"-thing doesn't necessarily mean dragon is as strong as whitbeard and the likes. He could rely on an even more powerfull army than whitebeard or other special means to damage the WG that the pirates don't have.

But the encounter with smoker still stands and can't be brushed aside just like that.

When did you learn the reasons why Smoker didn't try to stop Dragon? Strength is probably a factor, but we don't know if it's THE factor.

And Whitebeard > Dragon.

Elric

@Octogon:

When did you learn the reasons why Smoker didn't try to stop Dragon? Strength is probably a factor, but we don't know if it's THE factor.

Can you think of another reason why he didn't stop him?

Polygon

@Elric:

Can you think of another reason why he didn't stop him?

I can think of a lot, why?

Elric

@Octogon:

I can think of a lot, why?

^^Mind telling me some of them?

Polygon

@Elric:

^^Mind to tell me some of them?

Does Smoker even care about Dragon?

**Smoker is working with Dragon.

Smoker knows Dragon, and doesn't want to turn him in.

Was more curios as to why a big-shot like him was even here.

He was thinking how to get past without much trouble.

Dragon was more important than Luffy.**

theinvisibleworm

Smoker didn't attempt the capture of Dragon for the same reason Dragon didn't attempt the capture of Smoker, and it probably had very little to do with relative power.

Something the World Government is probably trying to avoid is an all out war with Dragon and his armies, Dragon probably wants to avoid the same until he has sufficiently destabilized the World Government through breeding revolution in as many islands and nations as he can.

It would have been a shit-stupid move for either man to make a martyr out of the other at that point in time. I also wonder whether or not Dragon was actually alone, men like that rarely are.

Malintex_Terek

@Mog:

Uh, the latest chapter, which had a rundown of Marine ranks as the first page.

See, now I'm totally confused, since I was told multiple times that there isn't anything "new" on the cover page and stephen just included his revision/take on the rankings as a bonus. How does that make it "clear" that they're seperate ranks?

da_pingunator

hahaha this chapter made me laugh. hahahahaaah

HEATXZ

Is it me or Has One Piece become more like Bobobo-bo?

Mog

See, now I'm totally confused, since I was told multiple times that there isn't anything "new" on the cover page and stephen just included his revision/take on the rankings as a bonus. How does that make it "clear" that they're seperate ranks?

The first page is the Marine ranking system in the One Piece world. Stephen simply took the opportunity to revise his translations of said ranks.

No, the first page is nothing new, because the whole ranking system was already printed in an SBS once, but at least it reveals nothing has been changed. Meaning, no ''merging'' of Rear Admiral and Vice Admiral or other silly things.

Malintex_Terek

@Mog:

No, the first page is nothing new, because the whole ranking system was already printed in an SBS once, but at least it reveals nothing has been changed. Meaning, no ''merging'' of Rear Admiral and Vice Admiral or other silly things.

Yes, but I want to know which SBS, since this whole matter is confusing and I want to make comparisons.

Penguin Zero

And just to make it absolutely clear: the first page is a list of Navy ranks. The list is identical to that which appeared in SBS some time ago. And the list includes both Vice-Admiral (chuujou) and Rear Admiral (shoushou) as separate ranks. So it's explicit confirmation that the rank of Rear Admiral exists in the World Government Navy, even if we haven't yet seen any officers at that rank.

And the SBS in question was Volume 8, Chapter 66.

Elric

@Malintex_Terek:

Yes, but I want to know which SBS, since this whole matter is confusing and I want to make comparisons.

huh? I already posted the sbs+link on page 21 O_o

http://arlongpark.net/Manga/SBS/8

@Penguin:

And the SBS in question was Volume 8, Chapter 66.

hehe should get into the habit of reading on before quoting^^

Aldrich

@Elric:

I think the leader of the only group that can currently hope to topple the WG, which also happens to be a man smoker didn't even try to attack, shouldn't have problems defeating even the strongest vice admiral.

I think what Robin meant when she said the revolutionaries were the only ones able to topple the WG wasn't about the individual strenght of the men composing it, but the fact their only goal was to take down the WG, while pirates only want to naviguate freely.

As Robin and that king back during the Drum arc said Dragon is dangerous because of his ideas making people in various kingdoms rebel against the WG authority. I highly doubt he ever attacked Marine HQ or Mariejoie by himself, the revolutionaries aren't supposed to be a Great Power. But political manipulation, acts of terrorism, propaganda, that's probably Dragon's job.

As for Smoker he likely didn't give a damn about Dragon, he just discovered a guy who reminded him of Gol D Roger and was the first pirate to escape from him, following his logics it makes sense he'd find him far more interesting than the world's worst criminal.

shinpfn

Actually, it seemed to me that WG was halted on the Dragon matter when Smoker chose not to engage him on Logue Town. Meaning that Smoker was actually following superior orders. Correct me if I´m wrong, but WG was waiting for Dragon´s Answer, was it not? Then, it was sort of truce between then, right?

kljs

@shinpfn:

Actually, it seemed to me that WG was halted on the Dragon matter when Smoker chose not to engage him on Logue Town. Meaning that Smoker was actually following superior orders. Correct me if I´m wrong, but WG was waiting for Dragon´s Answer, was it not? Then, it was sort of truce between then, right?

or Smoker knew before hand that there is no way he can catch Dragon…....

Polygon

@kljs:

or Smoker knew before hand that there is no way he can catch Dragon…....

Seriously, does Smoker seem like the type of person to care how strong someone is? He's try and put some smoker in their ass anyway, even if is was the Whitebeard.

Kryptik

@Octogon:

Seriously, does Smoker seem like the type of person to care how strong someone is? He's try and put some smoker in their ass anyway, even if is was the Whitebeard.

THat's how I figure it. I think the only reason he didn't try and take down Crocodile when he had the chances was 1) He was captured by said Croc, and 2) He felt that finding the rain ship he figured Croc had was more important, as it would give him the leeway to take Croc on afterward (what with the man being revered as a hero before the whole plot came to light).

Which is why I still find his exchange with Dragon at Logue Town suspect. Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there…but there seems to be something deeper between them than just 'Marine and Revolutionary'. It seems like there was a past connection between them.

Phenomenol

Smoker goes by his own rules, he does what HE wants to do. If he wanted to go after Dragon he would have but he found Luffy much more interesting because he escaped from him.

ITSALION

I think Smoker was mainly concentrating on Luffy. "Dragon's not my problem," or something like that.

andrew86

@Ectopic:

You know, before this chapter I thought Dragon would be Luffy's uncle, not his dad.

I figured that he was Roger's first mate or something and was told by Roger, before he was sent to the execution platform, to look after the next generation of D's or something like that. Meh.

kljs

maybe Dragon was the one that betrayed Roger…...

smurfx

i wonder how dragon came to be a revolutionary. with garp being a marine i wonder if he tried to make dragon into a marine just like he intended to make luffy into a marine. at some point there had to be a turning point i think or had a truth told to him that turned him against the world government. also smoker seemed to know him personally when he saw him at loguetown i wonder if they used to be friends or something. or perhaps dragon was a marine and got disillusioned kinda like saulo and turned against the marines and was probably crewmate's with smoker. the government must of known who dragon was as soon as they saw his pic since garp would of recognized him right away. he must of been similar to crocodile he looked like he was doing his job but was really up to something else or he just quit the marines and went on his own and was found out some time later.

kljs

maybe Dragon was at the same marine academy as Smoker? Hina might also know Dragon personally too!

wintergt

My thoughts: Nice to get more information, especially about the 4 emperors.. more super badguys to look out for :). And the one emperor everyone calls a fat woman.. actually looks a heck of a lot like captain hook from peter pan to me.

Also some comedy gold again, can't wait to see it animated. And I need moooooore..

Oh, about Dragon: I think he knows more about the "real history" which is why he went revolutionary.

hqkd

Now my question of who is Dragon is answered. Gosh, I almost fell out of my chair.

PS: I can finally post now, thanks! ^.^

Elric

@Aldrich:

As for Smoker he likely didn't give a damn about Dragon, he just discovered a guy who reminded him of Gol D Roger and was the first pirate to escape from him, following his logics it makes sense he'd find him far more interesting than the world's worst criminal.

@Phenomenol:

Smoker goes by his own rules, he does what HE wants to do. If he wanted to go after Dragon he would have but he found Luffy much more interesting because he escaped from him.

@IT'S:

I think Smoker was mainly concentrating on Luffy. "Dragon's not my problem," or something like that.

You guys do know it was because of dragon luffy was able to escape in the first place?

HEATXZ

I check the cover of the chapter the one with Smoker and Aokiji and the others and I do non't like Tashigi new look her old look was very cute

kljs

is it possible that Oda made a mistake about Tashigi?

joekido the Second

@Aldrich:

Don't tell me the fact he could be his father never crossed your mind seriously. You're all going to tell me Dragon being related to Luffy is even remotely comparable to Garp being his grand father? Please. And no it's not " a possibility out of 100 or so". Either they knew eachother cause Dragon was a pirate and met Luffy during one of his trips in his village, but we had this with Shanks already, either they were related, which was the simplier and most obvious solution.

I'm not criticizing it, I think it's a rather minor information compared to the rest of the stuff uncovered in the chapter especially the 4 Emperors stuff, but everyone acting as if they didn't see the big Star Wars cliché coming from 50 miles away…

And what is this big Star War Cliche?