Okay, but the megolomaniac type in FICTION tends to slip easily into absurdity.
Maybe Kaku's not such a bad guy after all.
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simply put it….. the only thing about Kaku is that he is a good loser......that's all....... he was under orders to do all the "bad" stuff......... because he is working for the World Government......
yeah, the Tower of Justice is destroyed.....but it doesn't mean the CP9's are destroyed.......
Pro-Main Cast Evangelist. In Oda We Trust. TheJackAss Crew. AMC = Anti-main Cast. Luffy x Nami.
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yeah, the Tower of Justice is destroyed…..but it doesn't mean the CP9's are destroyed.......
Dude. The Straw Hats beat them. And if they can beat them once, they can beat them again.
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If he dies, that means my 'what Kaku did next' fanfic series is screwed. If he lives, there is a god, and his name is Oda.
It would be awesome if Kaku got a sidestory. ^_^
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If he dies, that means my 'what Kaku did next' fanfic series is screwed. If he lives, there is a god, and his name is Oda.
I know what you mean. I got a two part fanfic series this might have deep sixed…..now I gotta wait to find out what happens with Zoro's new sword.
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It's all about loyalty , kaku is loyal to the WG and in lucci 's case it is a bit more extreme but it's still loyalty .
Lucci has no loyalty to the WG. He only joined CP9 so he could legally kill people, remember?
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There's still a difference between going about business with good intentions and a messed moral compass, and deciding to be brutal and vindictive for its own sake.
We don't know what the WG's intentions are and although their reasons are SURE to have a purpose, since it's going to fall on our hero's heads to be the ones to fight back against them, you can be sure those intentions, however, glossy they might appear to be, are not all that they seem.
As for comparing Smoker and Kaku, as you said, Smoker can see through the WG's imagery. But how deep is the cloud of BS the WG is putting out?
Come on Bounty, I know you better than this. They've got wack jobs like Lucci working for them, they manage to deceive giants to use them for a means to an end, they have crooked Marines under their wing, they don't follow the actions of the Shichibukai close enough to let the kind of disaster that transpired at Arabasta occur (and no doubt aren't acting on our friend Mr. Flamingo), and they're willing to massacre an island to keep a secret from the world.
That's some hefty conspiracy shiznit.
They've had 800 years to blow the story of the Ancient Weapons out of proportion. It's likely that much of the population doesn't have any objective view of it, and that can create exactly the type of fear that would result in rationalizing immense crimes.
But they're not rationalizing them, they just kinda do them and no one cares. I mean obviously there are pockets of resistance, we've seen that from early on in the journey, but on the whole, things are more or less 'their way or the highway' as things stand.
How many COUNTLESS namesless Marines or WG thugs have we seen fall to this point? Each one of them dumb enough to follow orders or continue their service. But we've seen plenty of evidence that many of the higher-ups aren't so 2-D.
Kaku shouldn't be any different.
I mean, what dumbass follows orders without at very least wondering to his/herself whether it's right or not. If he had a shred of redeeming decency in his body he would have questioned orders or at least given up his key without a fight.
NOW WE ALL KNOW HE AIN'T DEAD. That's for damn sure. But we ALL know why that is and if it was practically any other series you know he would be. OBVIOUSLY he would never have killed Zoro because then we have no story. BUT please remember, he was fighting to the death.
If he said a prayer for Zoro after he killed him would you all think that he's a good guy?
Kaku smiled and gave up his key after he lost. That doesn't give him a sudden free pass. Hell, Charlie Manson always smiled. The only thing it means is that he has honor and honor is neither good or evil, it's honor.
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Kaku smiled and gave up his key after he lost. That doesn't give him a sudden free pass. Hell, Charlie Manson always smiled. The only thing it means is that he has honor and honor is neither good or evil, it's honor.
Well, if you listen to what St. Augustine has to say…
(Yes, I brough the church into it. Deal.)St. Augustine, upon who's work many preeminent horror stories are based on (most stephen king books, especially Needful Things, and the anime Paranoia Agent) says that real evil is not people like Lucci. People like Lucci (or, to use some more modern real world cases, Hitler, Bundy, Manson) are not actually evil, They're monsters, mistakes, unfortunate and deadly natural disaters.
Evil comes with CHOICE. The head of Auschwitz (forgive my mispelling) was a mousy little man who kept carefully noting down the names of all the jews he gassed because they were an inferior race. His evil was CHOSEN, not born of madness or bloodlust (both of which are imbalances in the brain, and therefore bring us back to natural disaster.)
The truly evil are neither impressive nor flashy. They are disgusting, but not especially noticeable. Phrases linked to evil are things like "everyone does it"
"it's not my fault" "what choice did I have?" "I was just following orders". The evil deny responsibility for what they have done. Bundy, Hitler, Manson, all were proud of what they had done, and never shied away from admitting it. This is imbalance, and the natural disaster I've mentioned before.NOTE: PEOPLE FROM EUROPE MIGHT WANT TO SCROLL DOWN TO WHERE I SAY IT'S SAFE TO READ AGAIN.
Think of Denmark and France in World War Two. In France, the French saw the might of the germans and immediately bowed down–the germans ordered all Jews to wear gold stars, and the french government (admittedly a host of Nazi stooges after the takeover, the french people in general cannot be blamed for this) readily agreed. The stars were used to single out the jews by german officers, and finally to tell them who to take to the death camps.
But in Denmark, when the king was ordered to declare that all jews wear the gold stars, he gave a live radio adress where he ordered ALL CITIZENS OF DENMARK to wear the gold stars, and donned one himself. The Nazi's were livid, but there are few recorded instances of Danes NOT following the gold star order. This severely hindered the germans in harassing jews in denmark during the war; the mass numbers of stars made it impossible to tell who was who.
National choices aside, INDIVIDUALS made other choices. A woman working for the french government, in charge of keeping the files on all jews in the country for the convenience of the germans, took huge armfuls of files and threw them in the fire each day once she learned of the death camps.
I am working up to a point here. The point is that evil, or collaboration with evil, is a chosen thing. Hitler was largely blameless, because although he was a dangerous monster he was not in fact capable of being anything else.
EUROPEANS: YOU CAN READ AGAIN.
Spandam, on the other hand, IS evil. He revels in his power and calls out all that he does is for "Justice," again, denying responsibility. Other evil characters have included Nezumi and the Priests from Sypea. By Augustine's reckoining, Enel would NOT be evil.
So now we come back to kaku. Kaku has certainly chosen what he has been told is the right side; he also felt he was fighting for justice. But in the name of "justice" he, like so many of the other CP9 members, killed innocent civilians guilty of nothing other than getting in his way. This was a CHOSEN action, and therefore he IS evil, where Lucci is NOT.
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I kinda agree but I kinda don't.
Yeah I agree that Lucci (the man) is a monster.
but….
There's no denying that many of his actions are the anti-thesis of good. Sadistic at best. Genocidal at worst. In that respect I'm torn as what to think about him. Yeah, he's done some awful stuff but he's not a random insane fuck-head like Ener or Arlong. He doesn't kill on will, only on orders.
I just dunno what to think about him.
Kaku doesn't seem to have any bloodlust so yes I agree with your point about him having a choice!
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I kinda agree but I kinda don't.
Yeah I agree that Lucci (the man) is a monster.
but….
There's no denying that many of his actions are the anti-thesis of good. Sadistic at best. Genocidal at worst. In that respect I'm torn as what to think about him. Yeah, he's done some awful stuff but he's not a random insane fuck-head like Ener or Arlong. He doesn't kill on will, only on orders.
I just dunno what to think about him.
Kaku doesn't seem to have any bloodlust so yes I agree with your point about him having a choice!
Yeah, I made Lucci more simple to get to my point about Spandam and Kaku. Lucci had the bloodlust, but he also talked about "justice" a lot….hard to read that, really.
Then again there are several cases of psychotics finding an official capacity in which to act out their whims and do it officially. Take the serial killer who was recently caught who turned out to be working for Animal Services for thirty years after his killing spree, taking his homocidal urges out on pets for "the safety of the community." He wasn't REALLY hiding behind the title, he just used it to let him walk around in public and get his kicks.
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Why must Hitler pop into every forums I read…..he gets way too much credit for evil.
Seems to me like whenever people need an overarching blanket for evil they point to Hitler. There are so many negative connotation towards the subject that further discussion among the thread seems pointless. Whatever that’s my rant about topics that turn into Hitler topics. Not aimed at anyone in generalOn topic Kaku mini series anyone? Really IMO the ideas that OP villains represents are evil; not host that it lives on. OP is Shonen manga about exploration and dreams not morality of evil or the complex duality of justice. Sometimes we in these boards look too much and try to make comparison that are awkward or simply inject our views with OP examples plastered all over them. Kaku comes from a long line of henchmen that not-evil-but-follow orders mold (look at Kenshin series for good samurai examples). I mean Kaku might have Okada Izo complex but that’s beside the point. OP is a upbeat world that suppose to make you feel better not an serious investigation of morality. Part of the beauty is the oversimplification the Oda/fans can part-take sometimes. We don’t have to find holes to fill. Kaku is a henchmen that’s it (Although I wouldn’t mind seeing him on the cover pages –he is fav. CP9). That’s my final word
better pic comin soooon!!!
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Why must Hitler pop into every forums I read…..he gets way too much credit for evil.
Seems to me like whenever people need an overarching blanket for evil they point to Hitler. There are so many negative connotation towards the subject that further discussion among the thread seems pointless. Whatever that’s my rant about topics that turn into Hitler topics. Not aimed at anyone in generalMy point was that, by the augustinian definition (which, if there were an official one, would probably be it) he WASN'T evil. He was a natural disaster.
As for why he's considered an overall blanket of evil, there was that little incident where he gassed innocent children and old people to death because their noses were too big and started a global conflict that left no nation unscarred.
Riding a Rhino is safer so we Ride a Hippo for Adventure!
~Bobobobo BO-bobo~
PS: I am a big fan of kittens:love:
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Seems to me like whenever people need an overarching blanket for evil they point to Hitler.
My guess is because he's a fuck-head of legendary proportions.
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It was clear that the next miniseries would be about Jabura-Catherine-Lucci love triangle.
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Wakatake Monogatari +Complicated Simplicity+
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Uh, you're referring to the SBS where they talk about the airhead girl from Water 7? I think that was a joke.
I'm thinking the next mini arc will be what happened to Foxy after the Davy Back or something to do with Gin and Krieg. There WAS a filler arc in the anime with "What happened to Foxy", so if Oda likes it enough, he may adapt it for the manga.
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lets not count this arc as almost finished yet…..there is still lots of things to finished off first....
hopefully, there would be the mini-arc where Zoro gets a new katana...to replace the one that got destroyed...
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@Fire Fist:
Uh, you're referring to the SBS where they talk about the airhead girl from Water 7? I think that was a joke.
Which Mini-Arc drawn until today was not a good joke … ?
The airhead girl is not from W7, she is a cook (?) from EL. And she is not only appearing in the SBS. It was also on the main storyline of book 40, Jabura was really ashamed when Fukurou told everybody about her.
Then it was clarified in SBS that
1. even the EL dogs appeared in the court fight were actually gossipping about that sad love affair
2. Catherine the EL primadonna refused Jabs (and everyone else) by confessing that she liked Lucci for his handsomeness and willing to wait for him another 5 years(??). Fight, Jabs!
hahaha. -
Problems are, Kaku, Lucci, and all CP9 were raised up since infant/since they not even aware of themselves, indoctrinated with the clumsy ideas of right and wrong.
If observed carefully, Kaku did not directly do anything to his own ally or anyone at W7. He only get his hand down to the pirates, cause in his logic at first, all pirates are evil. Only through this event he could refresh his mind on the matters.
Lucci, on the other hand, bashed Iceberg/Paulie and the new CP9, but it was with his own reason. But he didn't do anything bad to Chimney/Gonbe.
He told us that as a carnivore Zoon, he can control the strength to the maximum limit. But there was his soft side.
No matter how ferocious it was, an animal still have brain and feeling.
I never interact with leopards, but I had some experience with tigers.
A tiger is a caring loving animal, I can guarantee.
Lucci could say that he is bloodlust or etc, but actually he thinks a lot about the situation, plays carefully in the edge of legal ways, and acknowledging Luffy's good leadership.
I don't think he really wanted to get rid of the mugiwaras, cause if he did, he could abandon any of Spandam's command and destroy them all in the first place.Then, it was the WG behind all of them.
We can judge that while most of the soldiers are purely joining to stand for justice, it was natural that some are trying to get their own profit…but the SYSTEM itself are corrupted.
There was the dark justice CP9.
A court that never vote not guilty.
And... the keeping of criminals, Shichibukai.As for the system had stand through 800 years, it was good enough to maintain STATUS QUO. It was fine with the central kingdoms that could manage their own country, but it was not with the remote village on a faraway islands. There are some limit of basic human/creature rights.
And that's the duty of Dragon as revolutionist, and the pirates as a bunch of people with free lifestyle.
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@Fire Fist:
Uh, you're referring to the SBS where they talk about the airhead girl from Water 7? I think that was a joke.
I'm thinking the next mini arc will be what happened to Foxy after the Davy Back or something to do with Gin and Krieg. There WAS a filler arc in the anime with "What happened to Foxy", so if Oda likes it enough, he may adapt it for the manga.
Nah, I hope the next mini-arc is about Kaku and his search for 'the truth'.
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One (two?) words: SpinOff.
Oda's been doing OP for a while, and he's wanted to do the robot thing too, now granted there's no reason for Kaku to fight robots since robots don't really exist (at least on a mass scale) in the OP world, but I really believe Oda will make a huge mistake if he lets this opportunity go.
Stan Lee created various comic book series despite starting off small, I honestly believe (and this is a huge compliment) Oda has reached a point where he can begin to do the same.. I really think he should do a spinoff with CP9 (staring Kaku, Lucci can be the 6th power ranger type character that only appears once in a while).
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a CP9 spinoff… it would be interesting..... though I don't think it will be appealing if Lucchi is around...
Pro-Main Cast Evangelist. In Oda We Trust. TheJackAss Crew. AMC = Anti-main Cast. Luffy x Nami.
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Hehehe, agreed kljs!!
A spin-off would be really awesome, and then I wouldn't have to miss the CP9 (well…Kaku) that much. A spin-off mini series would be nice, like... 26 episodes anime wise? Because if it goes for too long it'd just be like having two One Pieces- and as much as that sounds like a good thing I think it'd just be confusing.
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One (two?) words: SpinOff.
Oda's been doing OP for a while, and he's wanted to do the robot thing too, now granted there's no reason for Kaku to fight robots since robots don't really exist (at least on a mass scale) in the OP world, but I really believe Oda will make a huge mistake if he lets this opportunity go.
Stan Lee created various comic book series despite starting off small, I honestly believe (and this is a huge compliment) Oda has reached a point where he can begin to do the same.. I really think he should do a spinoff with CP9 (staring Kaku, Lucci can be the 6th power ranger type character that only appears once in a while).
I've never seen any of the movies, but didn't they fight robots in that one movie? It was like movie 6 or 7 and had the "Hen that laid the golden eggs".
Franky's a Cyborg, that's close enough.
Here's my idea for a spinoff:
CP8: Kaku gets reassigned as leader of CP8, which is based out of North Blue. While investigating a weird phenomena known as the "Ebb Flow", their ship enters the Ebb Flow and finds nothing. Upon exiting it, they find their Escort gone. Arriving at a nearby island, they find the dress of the people and the technology level far beyond anything they've seen. When they look at the date, they realize they're 200 years into the future.
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I think the spinoff could be simple, and kept going at the same time as OP. If anyone ever used to watch Buffy and Angel, you can understand what I mean by running 2 shows at once.
It's like how Wolverine originally started as a mediocre bad guy to fight the incredible hulk, but turned into the biggest hit sensation, and for many the only reason they read X-men. I mean, doesn't that seem logical? Plus the crossovers, every time a show has crossovers people the viewers double, and people go crazy for them, which would be great for Oda.
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@Fire Fist:
Here's my idea for a spinoff:
CP8: Kaku gets reassigned as leader of CP8, which is based out of North Blue. While investigating a weird phenomena known as the "Ebb Flow", their ship enters the Ebb Flow and finds nothing. Upon exiting it, they find their Escort gone. Arriving at a nearby island, they find the dress of the people and the technology level far beyond anything they've seen. When they look at the date, they realize they're 200 years into the future.
yeah, interesting premise….... and Kaku will find the D family still around at the time...... Luffy's great-great-grandson will be around.....
Pro-Main Cast Evangelist. In Oda We Trust. TheJackAss Crew. AMC = Anti-main Cast. Luffy x Nami.
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Well, Oda CAN'T ignore the fact that Kaku is the most popular Villain and 9th popular overall OP-char.
So, a side-story should be the least
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@Fire Fist:
Here's my idea for a spinoff:
CP8: Kaku gets reassigned as leader of CP8, which is based out of North Blue. While investigating a weird phenomena known as the "Ebb Flow", their ship enters the Ebb Flow and finds nothing. Upon exiting it, they find their Escort gone. Arriving at a nearby island, they find the dress of the people and the technology level far beyond anything they've seen. When they look at the date, they realize they're 200 years into the future.
Whoa, how did i not notice the bottom part of your post before? You didn't edit it after I posted.. weird
I really like it! It fits into Kaku getting a spinoff, it fits into robots that Oda wanted to do, and it finally allows for the two series to work independently since the actions of one will not directly influence the other. I mean Oda can reduce the 200 years ago days being mentioned to a minimum so all we would know is that There was a Pirate King, but maybe no one talks about it, because once the new Pirate King was crowned, the age of Pirating was over, and the age of dreams began (ergo technological advancement) or something to that degree.
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A CP9 spin-off would definitely be gold. It could chronicle their adventures before and after the Strawhats. It will be called "CP9's Greatest Hits"
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What's in your heart matters, not your thinking.
We live in a world where people are blind to their actions and would think they are doing right. The CP9 thought they were doing the right thing through the mind, but in their hearts is full of evil. They will say something like, "I'm just doing my Job" but like Greg says; it's no excuse. If the government agent kills my mom in the name of good, would I accept that? No, it's no excuse, it's not right; period.
People intent to mix good and evil up which becomes an poor excuse. The WG thought they were doing good in their mind, but they can't see their hearts, they are tricked by their own flash. They intent to be in the middle of good and bad which makes them lukewarm, they have choice; ethier they do bad or good, they can't have both in the same time.
Charles Mason choose to do bad and he is very honest with that choice. He killed people and that gets stuck in his heart. Lucchi thinks or in his heart he wanted blood, in his mind he use justice as an excuse to kill which is very bad. If people don't feel bad about that, something is wrong.
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I like you're idea "Fire Fist" Ace, sounds interesting. I'd actually like to see Kaku start a life away from the Government and do as he please, seeing as how it seems he's had his life rather controlled up until now.
He seems like a character that craves freedom in a sense, I'm getting this from his nickname of "Yama kaze" (Mountain wind) back on Water 7. It's close to flying, and that always seems to symbloize freedom in my books. He's kind hearted and probably joined the Government because… something to do with a family member maybe? His parents were killed by pirates? His family's in the Government??? I dunno, that or he just wants to do the 'right thing'.
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@Fire Fist:
CP8: Kaku gets reassigned as leader of CP8, which is based out of North Blue. While investigating a weird phenomena known as the "Ebb Flow", their ship enters the Ebb Flow and finds nothing. Upon exiting it, they find their Escort gone. Arriving at a nearby island, they find the dress of the people and the technology level far beyond anything they've seen. When they look at the date, they realize they're 200 years into the future.
That would be awesome but….what about Luffy and co.? One Piece just wouldn't be the same without the carefree rubberman.
Holy hole in a doughnut, Batman!
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I'm currently working on a fanfic, but I had an idea for the spinoff:
200 years later in North Blue, Lvneel Kingdom has become famous for its "Sky Elevator", a direct source of transportation between North Blue and Upper Yard. However, Montblanc Apple, descendant of Montblanc Cricket, the exonerator of the Montblanc family, has grown corrupt, having amassed a huge amount of wealth by controlling traffic through the elevator. Apple has the power of the Kaze Kaze no Mi, making him virtually unbeatable. He also has an army of robots at his command.
In order to save the Kingdom, the citizens ask Kaku and CP8 to save them.
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No.
The WG is corrupt, evil and it inhibits your freedom.Back on topic, I wonder if we'll ever see him again?
we don't no if they are yet
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Kaku wants to work in a zoo
therefore, he likes animals
he may be evil but he loves puppies
who wouldn't want to be killed by someone who loves puppies?
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- We generally prefer you to dig up old threads than make a duplicate thread. There's an exception, though. If the thread is a time sensitive issue (ie. Ikue Ohtani (Chopper) Fallen Ill! May Need Temporary Replacement?!), do not dig it up even if the thread is not locked.
That said, if you don't have anything contributing to say, please let the thread die.
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Well… acctually it is the SH who is "evil" and the WG who is "good" even if how they handled Water 7 wasn't very "good".
Ha ha ha ha, this is an awesome quote. The very first reply flips the entire conversation on its head.
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Maybe Kaku's a woman
Then technically he can't actually be a bad guy
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Geh, you and your obsession with swordsmen turning out to be swordswomen! First Zoro, now Kaku. Who's next, Zoro's sensei? Oh, and I found some lobster-shaped salt and pepper shakers at an antique store the other day, if you're interested…
On topic-
I'm gonna have to agree with Greg and some of the others who stated that Kaku is an honorable, if evil, person. As for the contrast between Kaku and Lucci, one enjoys his work for the means he gets to employ and the other seems interested in the ends being achieved, whatever the means.
As to Kaku betraying Iceburg and Paulie, the corruption (or lack of) within the WG, and his willingness to kill anyone that interferes in his work- Kaku clearly believes that the World Government is right no matter what, and should be protected as an entity and as a concept. He thus rationalizes his actions as being necessary, if not always desirable.
He did laugh after Zoro gave him Paulie's message, but it wasn't amusement at the absurdity of such a thing concerning him- it was jovial acceptance of the consequences of his actions. Didn't Oda say that Kaku had loved ships as a child? The loss of his position, and the high probability that he would never work as a shipwright again did bother him. But that was a secondary concern compared to his loyalty to the World Government and what it means to him.
The World Government, beleaguered as it is in its fight against piracy, still proclaims a belief in Justice and Order which might certainly appeal to a populace under constant threat of murder, rape, and plunder. And didn't Iceburg regularly take commissions from pirates? By re-equipping pirate crews with ships, Galley-La Company was in effect unleashing a horde of pirates into the Grand Line who might otherwise have sunk or disbanded. Granted, Iceburg is a genuinely nice character; but his actions didn't always have positive consequences, any moreso than Kaku's or Lucci's.
All the same, assassination was a clumsy, heavy-handed solution to a problem the World Government wanted to resolve. Blackmail or smear tactics, in addition to trying to woo away some of Iceburg's more skilled hands into a WG owned-and-operated shipbuilding company would have been far better methods. But then, Spandam never was known for being politically savvy.
