Ancient Civilization Theory(Spoilers)

[zerocustom1989]

Well, I re-read Robins flashback and I came up with a fairly short theory on what happened to the ancient civilization.

At first i figured it could have been the Skypeans who were blown into the sky by an ancient weapon, but i figured robin knows who the civilization was and if it was indeed skypea then she would have said something while there.

So I rethought and decided to look down instead of up.

If no one in the world knows what happened to civilization, then there must be nothing left of it, nothing to see in person, or read about(books got destroyed).

Theory: The 'World Government to be' took the ancient weapons and decimated the civilization's island. The world government always preaches how powerful these weapons were, so why not build their base over the cater left behind after the destruction, and where did the weapons go after they were used? do they scater in 7 directions and land accros the globe? i fuckin hope not!.

The government sails one of their shipsover to the civilization, uses its power and creates a hole in the ocean. This is how the hole under Eneis Lobby is formed. As the water rushes down into the hole it pulls the shit allong with it, thus destorying the weapon that started the stories.

The Government in display of their dominance builds their HQ over the corpse of their defeated enemy.

MiniTheory: Does all the water sucked up by Eneis Lobby's hole get shot up into the air as the knockup stream? o-o

So, whaddya think? hope its not too farfetched

[Masta D.]

Hmmmmm….I don't know. The Goressui (sp?) are very pessimistic about the ancient history. It seems something bad happened way back when and they don't even want to mention it. Not only that, but the WG doesn't look like the kind of organization that would find it "glorious" to stand over the remains of their enemy.

If anything, the WG felt injustice and decided to stand up for themselves. Maybe they actually felt bad about killing off the ancient society and now their "absolute justice" is to honor them by not allowing anyone to learn about them. I don't know, I'm sleepy XD.

[Orca18]

I think the weapons indeed scater all around Grand line…I mean take a look Pluton at Alabasta and Poseidon at Skypia...there must be more than that in other place that Oda hasn't reveiled yet.
Also the water sucked up by Eneis Lobby is might be the reason for Aqua Laguna...(that's my theory) I dunno exactly how...Probably the water sucked up every once a year..like Aqua Laguna..

[cfmrfrpfmsf]

I had always thought that the "ancient civilization" were the D's, and they were the "defenders" of the world, but light hearted like luffy is. they defenderd the world from both the evil inhabitants and the ancient (even more ancient than them) weapons. but then a power started growing (the world government) and it became corrupted after only a short time so they grew power but soon realized to get absolute power like they wanted they would have to eliminate the d's. the "lost 100 years" was the time when the world was completely peaceful and the D's protected it. but since the D's were spread out among the world the government thought they got them all but a few escaped their grasp to spawn the ones we know of today.
the only thing that doesnt work with my theory is the ponelglyphs. they were big blocks hidden by the ancient civilization to tell the world about the peaceful century, but then why would some of them have instructions for ancient weapons on them?

[Porter]

Umm… I think the ancient weapons belonged to the ancient kingdom, not to the world government. Otherwise the government would still have them or at least know how to awaken them.
The kingdom build the weapons. The government destroyed the kingdom somehow before they were able to use them. But the kingdom was able to mention the weapons in the poneglyphs...

[Dixxy Mouri]

I can't believe this thread doesn't get more attention:

1. I agree that the ancient civilization is going to play an intrical part to the story of One Piece - it plays directly into Robin's dream, and Oda left enough of a cliffhanger for it to seem logical that we'll eventually get a followup to it.

2. Enies Lobby in and of itself is a strange place - it's always daytime, there's a giant gaping hole under it, and it's on the border of something akin to a Calm Belt. Even by Grand Line terms this is pretty strange and abnormal - even taking a place like Skypiea into consideration (which did have a somewhat logical explanation to it).

Although I'm not sure I'm ready to agree that the civilization has anything to do with Enies Lobby (other than the theory that it was PROBABLY squashed by the World Government), I think the theory is interesting and has merit. Enies Lobby is a weird place and it's location (next to the calm belt) and geography (giant hole and no nighttime) could yet play a key role in the arc we haven't seen yet aside from the obvious "hard to escape from" aspect.

The only reason I don't want to agree or disagree with the ancient civilization part is because we know so little about it, including it's actual location. It's one of those things you can't prove or disprove, but this thread has provided some really good circumstancial evidence - maybe the hole represents where the civilization once stood and maybe the construction of Enies Lobby, Mariejoa, and/or Impel Down (since the latter two are in the same basic area as EL) could have played a role in the civilization's downfall.

I don't know if this is something mentioned elsewhere on the forum (I've lost track of my own ideas and stuff I've read here on AP) but Raftel seems like another likely candidate for the homeplace of the civilization. But that's just because Raftel is probably going to mark the final arc of the story.

Don't the ponyglyphs have something to do with the Ancient Civilization, and don't they usually appear in just ruins? Maybe that civilization was something like Rome in our history and was spread out over large parts of the Grand Line, if not the entire world, and the ruins and ponyglyphs we've seen in places like Skypiea/Shandia and Arabasta were at one point part of some larger empire?

[Xetalimn_Erket]

Ubiq/omae's theory on the matter seems to be the most interesting; the World Kingdom was populated by a race of giants (the "D's") who were killed off by a bunch of pirates who would become the World Government.

This would explain why Dorry and Broggy had such enormous bounties on them, even though their "crimes" (if they did comitt such) were hundreds of years old.

[sgamer82]

And why the World Government might fear the Golden Age of Pirates. If the WG started as pirates, then they could easily fear such a crew would rise of the numerous pirates growing bolder and bolder.

[HitsugayaToushiro1191]

This is a very interesting matter.

The World Government starting out as pirates… That would explain why the Marines are supposed to hunt down pirates, right?

[Yuhara_sama]

Reading your theory, it made me think of atlantis. And how Oda may symbolize the tale to pretain to the ancient kingdom. meaning the ancient kingdom was "banished" to the depths of the sea by their own wepons by the WG.

I liked what you said about looking down insted of up, its what made me think of it. It fills my head with all these ideas about the SH's discovering that the Ancient Kingdom was banished to the sea, then they go find it. And not only find it, but still find it intact and inhabited (insert how*) and then they try and break the civilation free of their impresiment.

Then… all out war on the WG. woot.

Edit: As to WHY the WG would banish the Ancient Kingdom (AK) to the depths of the sea.... My idea is that adventues stumbled upon the AK, reported to their superiors (various leaders) about how much more advanced that civialtion is compared to them as well asd the devistating wepons they have. Then they concider that they are a danger to the world they know of and live in, and decide the best way to protect them selves and their people is to dispose of he AK. So, they steal the AK own wepons and use them agianst their creators. So, IMO the WG sarted out good (ignorant, but did it to protect themselves from what they dont understand), and then turned corrupted from trying to cover up the incodent as well as having the emence power of the wepons in their hand. Then after they gained world wide power, they some how lost the wepons... or something like that.

...and thats my theory

[Kuzan]

@zerocustom1989:

The Government in display of their dominance builds their HQ over the corpse of their defeated enemy.

That's a nice theory, and it's someway compatible with the theory I had: in eneas lobby there is always day because it is the north/south pole of the planet (which means that in the other extreme of the planet there is an always-night location, it would be like the earth but a little more inclined in the rotation axis). That explains why now the magnetism is f*cked in the grand line. Let's say that there was a giant kingdom there that was the north pole (read: a part of the earth with more magnetic attraction) and when it exploded it scattered all the pieces along the GL, that's why every piece has his own magnetic field and it's a mess. Ever noticed how islands in the grand line doesn't have beaches commonly but abrupt cliffs in the shoreline even when oda likes to draw beaches in the blues (ohara, usopp island) and in skypiea (angel beach)? Just like if they were scattered pieces of land. Sorry for linking to myself, I don't want to be redundant

@zerocustom1989:

MiniTheory: Does all the water sucked up by Eneis Lobby's hole get shot up into the air as the knockup stream? o-o

I also had the theory that it ends up as aqua laguna. It could be filling some place and each year when it "exceeds" it forms aqua laguna.

[kabrumbs]

1. Why destroy a entire civilization?
   I can only think about revenge or power. By the looks of WG I think that was power, as they hold it now.

2. How a civilization that built so powerful weapons can be defeated? I can only think about 2 explanations betrayal and blackmail. Each of them you can`t be so proud of. That can justify the fear that WG has from the true history, but I don't think this is all.

I really think that the truth will change the balance of power in a radical way. One of the 3 forces that sustains the actual balance are the Shichibuckai (sic), that are just former pirates. Its a clever way to avoid them reach Raftel. And somehow all this history must be related to the devil fruits, will of D., pirates, etc…

Add one question to the researchers: what is the oldest fact/user that we know of devil fruits?

[Yuhara_sama]

@kabrumbs:

1. Why destroy a entire civilization?
   I can only think about revenge or power. By the looks of WG I think that was power, as they hold it now.

2. How a civilization that built so powerful weapons can be defeated? I can only think about 2 explanations betrayal and blackmail.

Just gave my thoughts on those points in my previous post :happy:

[Kuzan]

@kabrumbs:

Add one question to the researchers: what is the oldest fact/user that we know of devil fruits?

I have to go and don't have time to confirm it but I think it is Kuzan's and Nico's fruits as well as saul acknowledging its existence (edit: I forgot saul and nico).

[HitsugayaToushiro1191]

Also, the theory that WG started out as pirates could also be why Gol D. Roger was executed, right?

In any case, Dorry and Brogy, if they are the survivors of an ancient civilization, could mean that the survivors were driven to an island in the Grand Line, right? I remember that they said that in Little Garden, they were fighting to return to their home island… If the rest of the Giants still exist.

[Captain Bowlton]

hey guys, first post on these forums but i've been lurking and reading for a while. this thread just finally made me want to register and put my ideas out.

i really like some of the ideas i've read in this thread and i just want to expand on a couple.

someone asked who the oldest DF users are, which got me thinking…no real history or anything about the DFs has ever been put forth by Oda, probably for very good reasons. they are very mysterious, nobody knows where they came from, how long they've been around, or anything.

think now about the Ancient Civilization, the theory that the "D's" are the protectors or inhabitants of this kingdom.

if this ancient civilization was advanced enough to make devastating weapons of mass destruction then they had to be very far ahead technologically. what if they MADE the devil fruits? they all look like real fruit (banana, etc) but have different coloring and texture. think about it logically, not thinking of them as a Devil Fruit. what if they were originally intended as a way to give great power to a select group of people, protectors who would need the godlike powers the fruits could grant to protect the civilization, their people, and their technology?

now of course their methods for doing this are up for discussion, but is it really that far fetched to assume something like this would be possible, given what we've already seen happening in this series? that would explain why there are different types of fruits (different fruits for different roles, perhaps different classes of protectors?). regardless the big idea is that the ancient civilization figured out a way to trap a power inside of a fruit that would grant the person eating it great power beyond that of a normal human..

that would explain some of the fruits wierd abilities. for instance, kalifa's soap fruit. nothing like that would ever occur in nature, but to think of it as something that had been originally concieved of by man would make a lot more sense. that also makes me wonder if maybe the ancient civilization knew how to MAKE the fruits but didn't know how to control WHAT kind of power the user would gain. nobody has ever said "yeah thats the so-and-so fruit" before ingesting. nobody knows till its too late!

NOW to take the theory even further, combine it with the theory that the WG was originally a group of pirates, perhaps envious of the civilization or maybe afraid as someone said. they manage to steal the fruit, gaining power that only the kingdom's members had ever known. that would make it a lot easier to be a viable threat to the kindgom and a lot easier to steal the ancient weapons.

getting more and more hypothetical, maybe the ponelglyphs not only explain how to get to the final island in the grand line, but might even explain how to make the devil fruits. its easy to see why the government wouldn't want that information make public. it could also explain the ease of which spandam can get devils fruits, if the government still knows how to make them and in fact still is.

so anyways, thats my little bit of speculative theory for tonight. i don't know if something like that has already been proposed, but reading the thread got my imaginative juices flowing and i just had to make a post letting you guys know what i think

[Bounty1Berry]

My theory:

The Ancient Weapons were early WG products, but their deployment created massive environmental blowback. It could explain:
-The weirdness of the Grand Line's magnetism
-The existence of such trans-nature objects as Devil Fruits and gyojin.
-The "Bowl" of Enies Lobby.
-A social collapse which dropped the level of a people who could create the Ancient Weapons back to the pirate age (the fact they have some higher technologies, like the Den Den Mushi and the harness of steam in the Sea Train, suggests a society which slipped from a higher state)

They bury the ancient story because it shows the blood on their hands, and the fact they're responsible for a lot of the mess in the world right now.

I always believed that the Eternal Day thing was just a matter of artificial lighting.

[unchipu]

@Bounty1Berry:

My theory:

The Ancient Weapons were early WG products, but their deployment created massive environmental blowback.

There are a couple flaws in the idea that the ancient weapons were created by the World Government (or ended up in the WG's hands). The World Government doesn't seem to know where they are, and their locations are written on the Poneglyphs; artifacts from the ancient civilization.

Also I wanted to bring up some facts that some people seem to have mixed up.
1: The Skypeia Poneglyph was originally in the Blue Sea, so Poseidon is probably hidden somewhere in the Blue Sea near Jaya.
2: A giant's lifespan is around 300 years, so Dorry nor Broggy could have been alive at the time of the end of the ancient civilization 800 years ago.

[LightningAce]

@HitsugayaToushiro1191:

Also, the theory that WG started out as pirates could also be why Gol D. Roger was executed, right?

In any case, Dorry and Brogy, if they are the survivors of an ancient civilization, could mean that the survivors were driven to an island in the Grand Line, right? I remember that they said that in Little Garden, they were fighting to return to their home island… If the rest of the Giants still exist.

No. The reason for why Dorry and Broggy are on Little Garden has already been given.

Dorry: BUT. They have LAWS in the village. For instance, if you start a quarrel within the town you and your opponent must continue it
somewhere else… We accept the judgement of the Gods of Erbaf. The Gods of Erbaf always grant their divine protection to the
one who is right. They allow the one who is right to live. And I caused havoc in town. Now another man and I use this island as
a battleground. The just one will win the fight... and survive.

Chapter 116.

[HitsugayaToushiro1191]

Yeah, but what I mean is does Elbraf still exist? Or did it get wiped out by the WG? That's what I was trying to say.

[LightningAce]

@HitsugayaToushiro1191:

Yeah, but what I mean is does Elbraf still exist? Or did it get wiped out by the WG? That's what I was trying to say.

It still exists most likely. I can't see how an Island of Giant warriors will be taken out by the WG. They'd need a shit-load of fire-power to pull that off.

[zerocustom1989]

:D! Glad to see this has seen some action.

I like the idea of the D's being the "defenders" but i still dont understand how Gol D Roger and Luffy could be related to giants…. oh well...

Yea aqua Laguna could be caused by eneis lobby's hole, but it doenst make much sense :-. How could something that sucks water in create huge waves... Maybe the water sucked up by Enies Lobby is shot up in the Knock up stream, that water has to come down eventually, and maybe that causes teh big waves. Water has an intersting magnetic property so maybe the strange fields of teh grand line curve the waves to Water 7?

(what was the time table for the knockup stream anyway?)

also i like the whole "Pole of the planet" for the ever-lasting day thing, but wouldnt it be cold o-o, then again.... Magnetic Poles dont have to be anywhere near a planets Axis Poles. so its plausible.

Bah, time to go out to eat, this was a lil rushed.

[Hitotsumami]

@zerocustom1989:

also i like the whole "Pole of the planet" for the ever-lasting day thing, but wouldnt it be cold o-o, then again…. Magnetic Poles dont have to be anywhere near a planets Axis Poles. so its plausible.

You know, Clover stood infront of the actual Planet of One Piece. I can't remember where the poles were placed. Let me go check real quick.

Ah, here it is:

[Ensui]

I like the idea of the D's being the "defenders" but i still dont understand how Gol D Roger and Luffy could be related to giants…. oh well...

Just before I get on to my theory here, I'd like to point out with the revealation of Gear 3, Luffy very well could be descended from Giants. That would explain why his arms and legs get so abnormally large when he's doing Gear 3!

Anyway, for my theory, traces all the way back to not just Robin's past but also draws in Nami's, Sanji's, and possible Zoro's past as well!

If we look at the WG as doing all of this stuff to hide the True History, then what else could they have done? We have yet to learn of Sanji, Nami or Zoro's true homes so maybe they left home because something like Ohara happened there.

This theory only really works for Zoro and Sanji. Nami was found by Belle-mere on a ravished island 15 years ago…..but what was Belle-Mere again? A marine! So, is it not possible that the WG attacked Nami's home island in search of the ancient weapons or for another reason like Ohara?

Following this, it could explain Sanji's past only showing him on a boat before Zeff. It means something similar could've happened when he was younger and he went with some refugees and became a chef....or he was a chef before.

This theory becomes more sound with another theory mentioned earlier on. Someone else has said that maybe all the islands of the world could've been connected until the weapons were released. So maybe all of the world's islands were once a part of this giant civilaztion. That, or like another theory, all of the Grand Line was.

Anyway, this is not completely sound but it could work and it would explain quite a few things.....

[Dixxy Mouri]

@Ensui:

Just before I get on to my theory here, I'd like to point out with the revealation of Gear 3, Luffy very well could be descended from Giants. That would explain why his arms and legs get so abnormally large when he's doing Gear 3!

I think it's more along the lines of "balloon" physics - the actual size of a deflated balloon isn't nearly as big as the actual size of an inflated balloon, so his skin and bones are probably just stretching, just like he does for his balloon move.

Anyway, for my theory, traces all the way back to not just Robin's past but also draws in Nami's, Sanji's, and possible Zoro's past as well!

If we look at the WG as doing all of this stuff to hide the True History, then what else could they have done? We have yet to learn of Sanji, Nami or Zoro's true homes so maybe they left home because something like Ohara happened there.

Dude, I'm so glad I'm not the only person who thinks about this! It drives me nuts that we have so little information on Zoro and Sanji's biological family and homes, Sanji's in particular because he ended up in a completely different part of the world from where he was born (though it's not disclosed exactly where Zeff attacked the Orbit.)

Nami's past I'm not as optimistic about because of how young she was when Bellemere adopted her - there's no way a relative would recognize her or she'd recognize them unless Oda did something corny like a family birthmark or a long-lost twin sister (and although a twin would bring about some priceless confusion gags amongst the crew and Sanji's head would explode from happiness, I hope that doesn't happen). Besides, she would still consider Nojiko her sister and Bellemere her mother.

You can also probably add Franky to the list of "Straw Hats/Potential Straw Hats With Mysterious Pasts" because he stated in a flashback he had been abandoned.

This theory only really works for Zoro and Sanji. Nami was found by Belle-mere on a ravished island 15 years ago…..but what was Belle-Mere again? A marine! So, is it not possible that the WG attacked Nami's home island in search of the ancient weapons or for another reason like Ohara?

There's so little we know about the attack on Nami's island of origin - the manga is very vague, only that Bellemere was dying and Nami was too little to know what was going on around her. We don't even know where it was (for all we know it happened in South Blue, the only ocean the SHs don't have a member originating from that we know about).

And Bellemere found them closer to 17 years ago, but the math doesn't hurt the theory

Following this, it could explain Sanji's past only showing him on a boat before Zeff. It means something similar could've happened when he was younger and he went with some refugees and became a chef….or he was a chef before.

Or why Zoro was just a student in the dojo and we don't know anything about his past beforehand, either. I think the anime showed that he was a wandering toddler until Kuina kicked his ass, but it's not manga canon and if something happened later on, well, it wouldn't be the first time the anime screwed with manga canon, anyways. (Zoro: Yay, I can cut steel before we enter the Grand Line! Chopper: Yay, I can eat Rumble Balls like potato chips as long as I'm in a Davy Back Fight!).

The other thing that kind of bugs me a little about Zoro and Sanji is that despite being normal humans, they're both absurdly strong without the assistance of a Devil Fruit - granted this is fiction and more importantly a shonen manga, but most of the really strong opponents have had a Devil Fruit or some really strong weapon. Kuro is the only one off the top of my head who didn't eat a DF but was still able to do something next to physically impossible, so I'm very interested in seeing the family trees of those two.

This theory becomes more sound with another theory mentioned earlier on. Someone else has said that maybe all the islands of the world could've been connected until the weapons were released. So maybe all of the world's islands were once a part of this giant civilaztion. That, or like another theory, all of the Grand Line was.

Ignoring the giant weapon, that's actually how the continents in the real world were formed - the 6 big land masses on Earth were once one really, really big land mass. It has a special name that I can't remember right now but I think it begins with "Pan-".

Anyway, this is not completely sound but it could work and it would explain quite a few things…..

Nah, I agree with a lot of what you said.

[Porter]

@Dixxy:

Ignoring the giant weapon, that's actually how the continents in the real world were formed - the 6 big land masses on Earth were once one really, really big land mass. It has a special name that I can't remember right now but I think it begins with "Pan-".

Yup, "Pangäa" in german, so "Pangaea" in english.
There is also a nice animation in the articles, if you scroll down. ^^

[Dixxy Mouri]

@Porter:

Yup, "Pangäa" in german, so "Pangaea" in english.
There is also a nice animation in the articles, if you scroll down. ^^

Thank you! I kept wanted to call it everything from Panacea to Pandora but I knew those were all wrong!

[jammit]

off - phew - it took me a whole hour to read this thread it's great

on- well about the magnetism on the islands in GrandLine:
I don't think magnetism as we know it is the reason for the LogPose acting like that, i.e. the Eternal Pose doesn't change it's direction no matter what, also it takes different amount of time to set the LogPose to the next destination - if you think about the name - Log - it's like an entry in a diary, or a daily note - I think it's more likely that the LogPose gets reprogramed or sth. while on the different islands - also they are set paths to pass thru Grand Line (i think they were 3 different paths)

and the Ancient Civilizations - I think they built the weapons but were afraid to use them because of their destructive power and hid them around the world. they also left the poneglyphs as indications to where the weapons are. Also the Rio Poneglyph I think is the only one that has the story about the 100 years of Void History. I wonder if it was the poneglyph in the basement of the Tree of Omniscence - the one that Ohara's scholars researched so much and Robin couldn't reach it - to do research with them.

Another thing to point - Hagward D. Saul mentioned that everybody in his family line had the D. in their names. And that means that probably his grandfather was alive during tha Void history and for a kid that would be as far as he remembers. I am believing that the D's are descendants of this ancient civilization and the will of the D would be to destroy their country's enemy - the WG by using the weapons. Althou the D's doesn't know that yet - maybe Roger did discover that - so they announced him as the biggest pirate ever and executed him…

yikes! that was a long 1st post

btw @Porter nice pirates - are they from MonkeyIsland3 - they kickass

[andrew86]

I'm going with the theory that the ancient civilization and those who hold the name D are tied in together somehow. As for the faction that founded the World Government, I doubt that they were pirates. Both the World Government and the Ancient Civilization were probably the two strongest powers in the world at their time and the World Government went to war with the so called "Ancient Civilization" for absolute power. Each faction probably had one of the ancient weapons, Pluton probably belonging to the WG and Poseidon to the AC. Somehow both were destroyed in the final fight that destroyed the AC's island and the WG came out on top.

P.S. I just realized something – my middle initial is a D. Friggin Sweet.

[Teller93]

I think I'm going closer to the "Atlantian" idea and with those in the family of D (Saul stated that the middle initial D was a family thing) are the decendants of said people and that Roger found out about it and started the Era of piracy on purpose at his exection to get back at the world government (in spite or as a joke, who knows) Just think would you would do to the World Government if you were in his shoes.

Also, the island One Piece is on, Raftia(holy crap I can't spell) might be a piece of this lost island/kingdom or it might contain absolute proof that it existed. Maybe a lost journal or soemthing of the last people from that kingdom.

What better way to screw the WG over than telling everyone in the world that your great loads of treasure are hidden on the one island that the WG doesn't want anyone to find, with Dragon "helping" the pirates along.

On another note:
Whatever happened to the books from the Ohara library? They were saved by the fire by being thrown in the lake. It is possible for them to still exist, and if so, who has them?

[Yuhara_sama]

Yay, someone else also buys the atlantian idea. And I thought my first post was for nothing…..

As for the books.... i dont thinking thowing them into a lake/the ocean would protect them from the island being destroyed.

[Sazelyt]

I have a few questions.

The only reason for the existence of a void century, is it the poneglyphs (since it seems the only thing that carries information on the erased ancient civilization)?

Also the poneglyphs are scattered throughout the world, so many civilizations of the current time should also be related to that ancient civilization, which is completely erased from the history. If that is the case, shouldn't they also carry on the name of this ancient civilization in addition to the poneglyphs into the future? The name is easier to carry than the poneglyphs. The past generations seem to only pass the poneglyphs rather than information regarding the origin of it onto the future generations. It is difficult to understand.

Also, why the name carries such a high level importance if it is completely erased from the history other than that on the poneglyphs? Not the location but the name. I can understand if the world government modified some information in the currently available documents (but that doesn't seem to be the case) or if the name is related to some location that is highly important for world government (why, again?).

[perpetual]

I think Kuzan's post made alot of sense: all the islands on the Grand Line are defragmented, scattered, and illogical. Evenmore, there are so much more variation in terms of culture, people, and lifestyle on these Grand Line islands than the 'normal' WG-governed seas.
What I'm curious about is, does the World Government have actual power over the Grand Line? Aside from the patrolling Marine ships, it seems that some islands are totally independent of WG. Aside from Water 7 of course, but that would be because of its location so close to Enieas Lobby.
It would seem then, possible decendants or remains of the Ancient Civilization still exist somewhere along the Grand Line. The Marines are just trying to get to them before the pirates do.
Just one last point: I agree with zerocustom - it seems that Oda has been building up the storyline for a under-water adventure. firstly, its a logical counterpart to Skypiea. Secondly, spoilers for ch. 423 reveals Kokoro's true identity. I think its no coincidence that the readers are introduced to more and more water/aqua-related material.
I have a sneaky feeling that this will explain why Tom-san, as a mer-man, had such superior shipbuilding techniques. Also, keep in mind, how Oda had from the very beginning, showed us the distinction between mer-man and fish-man (Arlong).
As for the question of how AC, an advanced civilization that was capable of producing such powerful weapons, could possibly just be wiped out like that. IMO, it could've been a combination of natural & man-made factors. Let's assume their technology did screw up some of nature's balance, and the then-pirates WG people were victorious because some weapons are just too terribly to use. Think nuclear. shrug that's just my take on things

[Porter]

@Dixxy:

Thank you! I kept wanted to call it everything from Panacea to Pandora but I knew those were all wrong!

You're welcome.
As a child I was very interessted in dinosaurs and stuff… and that's one of the things I still remember.

@jammit:

btw @Porter nice pirates - are they from MonkeyIsland3 - they kickass

Yeah, they are from Monkey Island 3. When I found out about ScummVM and the possibility to play Monkey Island 1 and 2 on WinXP, I was completely on a Monkey Island trip and just had to put those guys in my signature.

@andrew86:

P.S. I just realized something – my middle initial is a D. Friggin Sweet.

Same here. I realized that a year ago or so. It is really a funny feeling when you find out you are a D.

[HitsugayaToushiro1191]

I do think that Luffy was descended from Giants though, and that the ancient civilization was made of giants.

Luffy's middle initial is D.
The middle initial of Whitebeard and that giant from episode 275 were D.
So… any semblance?

[Bounty1Berry]

What I don't get about the Void Century–

How come at least some of the big stories of the Void Century can't be inferred from before and after?

Just think about a map from 1899 and one from 2001 in our world. Even with no knowledge of 20th century history, you could accurately estimate that imperialism collapsed.

If you knew that pre-Void, countries A, B, C, and D existed, and afterwards we had an alliance comprising A, B, and C that now divided the territory of D, you could conclude that A, B, and C levelled D with a reasonable degree of confidence.

[Xetalimn_Erket]

@Bounty1Berry:

What I don't get about the Void Century–

How come at least some of the big stories of the Void Century can't be inferred from before and after?

Just think about a map from 1899 and one from 2001 in our world. Even with no knowledge of 20th century history, you could accurately estimate that imperialism collapsed.

If you knew that pre-Void, countries A, B, C, and D existed, and afterwards we had an alliance comprising A, B, and C that now divided the territory of D, you could conclude that A, B, and C levelled D with a reasonable degree of confidence.

Yeah, I've thought along the same lines. Apparently, the World Kingdom emerged and was destroyed in a sparse one hundred years.

[ChopChopCannon]

Since the ancient civilisation was destroyed by the group that would later become the WG, does anyone else besides me believe that the ancient civilisation was a benevolent kingdom with no wars and peace everywhere, where people could do what they liked (provided it was not a crime, for example they could say they were pirates without fear of being arrested)?

And the group didn't like the way this civilisation was run, so they rose up against it and formed the WG, only to be crushed by Luffy and co. (later on of course.)

[ooshi78]

me thinks that this is another topic that you should have done a search on before you made it. it was discussed in the chapter that it came up in… or another topic. like this one

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=9061

or this one

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=8375

just because yours doesn't match 100% doesn't mean you need to start a new topic…

of course when you do a search and you don't know how to spell "civilization", you might not end up with anything...

ooshi78

[ChopChopCannon]

@ooshi78:

of course when you do a search and you don't know how to spell "civilization", you might not end up with anything…

Actually, 'civilisation' is how you spell it in Britain. So hah to you.

[blacky]

@ChopChopCannon:

Since the ancient civilisation was destroyed by the group that would later become the WG, does anyone else besides me believe that the ancient civilisation was a benevolent kingdom with no wars and peace everywhere, where people could do what they liked (provided it was not a crime, for example they could say they were pirates without fear of being arrested)?

Mmmh. I doubt it. Why should a civilization that is built on true and omnipresent peace have a large number of weapons that are able to destroy the whole world? Peaceful people don't need weapons and escpecially not weapons with such an immense strength.

And about the other theisis: The World is more or less peaceful right now. There main problem right now are a few corrupted politicians/marine officials, revolutionaries like Dragon and mainly (!) Pirates. I really wouldn't call a world where all people are Pirates who can do/steal/destroy/kill whatever they want "a better place". Of course pirates experience personal freedom, but they are in most cases destructive or at least extensively reckless.

[DarkShinobi]

I don't think that the ancient civilization was a pacifist one, but I do however believe that it was prosperous and at peace before the World Government took over.

I'm also willing to bet that the civilization has something to do with the D's.

[FireFistAce 0]

The Ancient Civilization was Raftel. I doubt it was Pacifist if it had Ancient Weapons ready to bust some shit up. But the mere presence of Ancient Weapons suggest the WG had something even worse.

[Eudaemonium]

@ChopChopCannon:

Actually, 'civilisation' is how you spell it in Britain. So hah to you.

And ChopChopCannon wins the prize! technically if you read the dictionary it's either, however spelling it with a 'z' is the American way that was integrated later. It's more phonetical, but i'm British, so I use the 's' generally.

I agree with blacky over the Civilisation though - why would a peaceful and benevolent civilisation need such ridiculous weapons. Though I ahve to say, civilisations are rather big and take a lot of time to grow - why the heck is it just a blank 100 years?

[blueblip]

The ancient civilization was probably a lot like the WG…except probably not as big. As people have already said, no benevolent civilization would create island busting weaponry, doesn't make sense. Heck, each weapon alone is supposed to be able to do what an entire Buster Call fleet does.

[ChopChopCannon]

@blacky:

Mmmh. I doubt it. Why should a civilization that is built on true and omnipresent peace have a large number of weapons that are able to destroy the whole world? Peaceful people don't need weapons and escpecially not weapons with such an immense strength.

That brings me to another question- why did the WG lie about Nico Robin 'sinking six ships' when they could have just told the truth? I don't see the point in their lying.

[Yoyoi_kumadori]

@Fire Fist:

The Ancient Civilization was Raftel. I doubt it was Pacifist if it had Ancient Weapons ready to bust some shit up. But the mere presence of Ancient Weapons suggest the WG had something even worse.

I also agree that the "ancient civilization" was not pacifists,but where does it say that raftel is the ancient civilization?

[blueblip]

@Yoyoi_kumadori:

I also agree that the "ancient civilization" was not pacifists,but where does it say that raftel is the ancient civilization?

It doesn't say that anywhere, but it's a common theory, and it is very plausible. After all, it IS a missing civilization, and only one person has ever been to Raftel. Personally, i think that it houses the Rio Poneglyph, which also happens to be One Piece.

[blacky]

Huh? I thought it said that the Ancient Civilization perished long ago? O_o And I thought Robin already figured out that there isn't anything like a "Rio Poneglyph" existing somewhere, but that the message of the Rio Poneglyph is encrypted into the many Poneglyphs that are scattered around the world…?

[FireFistAce 0]

Well, no one's been to Raftel in all of recorded history except Roger, right? And Raftel and the island Clover depicts are awfully similar in appearance.