Is he a pirate or revolutionary?

[Jestersage]

We know that, aside from pirates, we also have Revolutionaries, like Dragon, who's primary purpose is to declare war on WG and topple it down if possible. Now, Luffy had recently declared war against WG… but he start out as a pirate, wanting to find Roger's gold.

Now (hypotherically) that Robin is rescued, and assume that they escape Enies Lobby, do you think that he's still going to go against Marine when they meet them (like a revolutionary) or fight back only when necessary (like pirates)?

Of course, if the Navy did capture his drowning nakama and send them to Impel Down, he will definitely be against the Navy...

[yamato_D]

luffy's a pretty simple guy. all he wants is to become pirate king and keep his nakama safe. he only went to enies lobby and declared war against the WG because he wants to save Robin. Now, if he finds that the WG is an imminent threat that will constantly endanger his friends, then he may become more of a revolutionary. but i think that he enjoys the simple pirate life (although the strawhats are a bit more honorable than most).

[Xetalimn_Erket]

The government would probably see him as merely a pirate. Luffy has no real desire to fudge with the World Government unless they screw with him; and they did.

Furthermore, I am not sure if a "revolutionary" is worth a bounty. Pirates and bandits, yes; but a revoultionary? I am not so sure.

[sgamer82]

Well, a revolutionary could be even more dangerous to the World Government than a pirate. Pirates burn and pillage and the like, and some might be threats to the W.G., especially if provoked (like Luffy). However, a Revolutionary would target the government specifically. They would be a far more direct threat, and an even greater threat to the status quo that the many crews of pirates.

And remember, a person's bounty is decided in part by how much of a threat they pose to the World Government. So a revolutionary with a bounty is highly likely.

[smashfanDS]

To the World Government, and everyone else, he may be both, a pirate and a revolutionary because he declared war against them.

I Luffy ever again had to go against the World Government (by stopping him from reaching his goal) he will, naturaly, fight them, if not, he will just go on, enjpy the life of being a normal pirate

[Xetalimn_Erket]

@sgamer82:

Well, a revolutionary could be even more dangerous to the World Government than a pirate. Pirates burn and pillage and the like, and some might be threats to the W.G., especially if provoked (like Luffy). However, a Revolutionary would target the government specifically. They would be a far more direct threat, and an even greater threat to the status quo that the many crews of pirates.

Not in the "Great Age of Piracy". Pirates have a much more infamous reputation than "omg red commie" types such as Dragon, who would be more threatening when he's trying to change the status quo in peacetime. During such a chaotic period, any change that would move toward peace would be deemed a suitable solution, even Dragon's ideas about government.

[Setzer]

As said before, Luffy is just out to fufill his dreams and protect his nakama, so they can fufill theirs. He'll fight if provoked, as seen at Enies Lobby.

Though, I wouldn't be surprised if the World Government used his attack on Enies Lobby to fuel propoganda and make the general public think that he's bent on overthrowing the government.

[Le Lawliet]

That… I'm not so sure of Terek. Smoker has commented to Dragon, "the government wants your head"

[Doskoi-Pandaman]

maybe they could be seen as che luffy and dragon castro, depends on who you talk to that decides if they are revolutionist or terrorist

im all for the che luffy movement

[Xetalimn_Erket]

@yokaiforte:

That… I'm not so sure of Terek. Smoker has commented to Dragon, "the government wants your head"

I never said revolutionaries were not dangerous/unwanted, just less of a salient threat than pirates.

Who is the real major threat the World Government? Why, it's constituent nations, of course! They have the power to stop World Governmental affairs and pass administrative changes.

So, to preserve the government in its current form, the World Government need keep its people happy…and to do that, they need to focus on pirates, not some crazy revolutionaries.

...also, Smoker's an insider. I doubt many people know about Dragon; Smoker did because he was an officer at the Marine Headquarters before being stationed back in East Blue, so he WOULD know about big dangers like Dragon. Smoker probably knows all about Whitebeard and Shanks, too.

[Le Lawliet]

….but we don't know if the public knows of Dragon or not. In that time we've seen him at Loguetown, All the public was in their homes, most likely because of the pirate threat. In that, we haven't seen any interraction between Dragon and generic Marine #1 or 2. And it seems that the Government does appear to have a great deal of watching out against those that could possibly topple the current government, which would be anyone who could expose the truth, such as that as the O'hara incident. Was Robin a pirate way back when before she joined up with Croc? No. But the Government fears these types of people that pose such a huge threat. It's not a matter of "this way can get more peace, let's use it." It's a case of "Pirates in their ambition to become Pirate King? Gold Roger probably hid something for the Pirate King at Raftel. Hinder their progress." Of course, the norm of pirates is the usual "I'm gonna plunder the village for riches", so the Navy would be necessary to keep the peace, but the Government most likely fears what can topple them.

[Xetalimn_Erket]

@yokaiforte:

….but we don't know if the public knows of Dragon or not. In that time we've seen him at Loguetown, All the public was in their homes, most likely because of the pirate threat. In that, we haven't seen any interraction between Dragon and generic Marine #1 or 2.

Since Dragon was specifically brought up at the King's Conference, it's safe to assume we won't be seeing his face on wanted posters; any information about someone that dangerous would be restricted to a core set of people within the World Government, and in this case, it was the leaders of several constituent nations.

@yokaiforte:

And it seems that the Government does appear to have a great deal of watching out against those that could possibly topple the current government, which would be anyone who could expose the truth, such as that as the O'hara incident. Was Robin a pirate way back when before she joined up with Croc? No. But the Government fears these types of people that pose such a huge threat. It's not a matter of "this way can get more peace, let's use it." It's a case of "Pirates in their ambition to become Pirate King? Gold Roger probably hid something for the Pirate King at Raftel. Hinder their progress." Of course, the norm of pirates is the usual "I'm gonna plunder the village for riches", so the Navy would be necessary to keep the peace, but the Government most likely fears what can topple them.

Robin was a greater threat because she had the capcity to release information that would, in the eyes of the constituent nations (who the WG fears) of the Gorosei Administration, cause upheval. The government sees pirates as a threat of attrition, but there are a couple individuals who could hurt their weakpoint (the people) in other critical ways as well.

[Le Lawliet]

@Xetalimn_Erket:

Since Dragon was specifically brought up at the King's Conference, it's safe to assume we won't be seeing his face on wanted posters; any information about someone that dangerous would be restricted to a core set of people within the World Government, and in this case, it was the leaders of several constituent nations.

That'd be the same as saying that Luffy won't be a major threat just because they were discussing him at that meeting of shichibukai and other powers. Even though they obscured his power from the public, they still made known that he's nothing to laugh at (which Bellamy found the hard way), where as Robin's high bounty was also meant so that even she told someone the truth, they wouldn't believe her as she was a criminal.

Robin was a greater threat because she had the capcity to release information that would, in the eyes of the constituent nations (who the WG fears) of the Gorosei Administration, cause upheval. The government sees pirates as a threat of attrition, but there are a couple individuals who could hurt their weakpoint (the people) in other critical ways as well.

Not so sure about that. They seemed pretty concerned when they were talking about Croc and how he lost to Luffy. I mean, yes, the generic three million belly pirate in the east blue is one that pillages, and going up from there, it's still mostly pillaging villages, so naturally, a safety measure must be taken in the form of the Navy, where as the CP9, the Government's top spy-assasination group, deals with people who pose a much bigger threat to the government, such as those who hold pluton's blueprints (also to gain possession of such documents), or those revolutionaries that Jabura, Fukurou, and Kumadori were sent to kill.

[Masta D.]

Well, Luffy has no interest in becoming a rev., even if the WG were to brand him as one for props. Zoro is a good example. While Drum was being ravaged by tyranny, he just ignored the deaths of innocents for his own selfish goals and trained.

Luffy may follow Zoro's steps in the future, no joke. If you have been reading the CP-9 arc, he is becoming more and more serious while having less time for "jokester Luffy". I'd love to see him become a "Stay off my path and I won't f*** with you" bad-ass attitude. All he cares for are going his course in the GL and protecting his nakama now.

[Xetalimn_Erket]

@yokaiforte:

That'd be the same as saying that Luffy won't be a major threat just because they were discussing him at that meeting of shichibukai and other powers. Even though they obscured his power from the public, they still made known that he's nothing to laugh at (which Bellamy found the hard way), where as Robin's high bounty was also meant so that even she told someone the truth, they wouldn't believe her as she was a criminal.

What makes Robin's bounty more significant that Luffy's is that her bounty was given when she was but a child, while Luffy was (arguably) an adult at the time.

It seems to me that declaring a new "threat" is a bad idea for the WG; it makes them look bad. As such, announcing to the world that Dragon or Luffy were "major threats" would cause great concern over the WG's capacity to keep people safe. The information about them would be kept at a minimum and never outside key concentric circles.

The Enies Lobby assault, though, will change that, considerably.

@yokaiforte:

Not so sure about that. They seemed pretty concerned when they were talking about Croc and how he lost to Luffy. I mean, yes, the generic three million belly pirate in the east blue is one that pillages, and going up from there, it's still mostly pillaging villages, so naturally, a safety measure must be taken in the form of the Navy, where as the CP9, the Government's top spy-assasination group, deals with people who pose a much bigger threat to the government, such as those who hold pluton's blueprints (also to gain possession of such documents), or those revolutionaries that Jabura, Fukurou, and Kumadori were sent to kill.

Overt and covert threats. Revolutionaries are covert until they are widely heard; as such, one sends a covert unit to dispose of them. Pirates are loud and make a giant hullaballoo wherever they go; as such, public bounties and official Naval action brings confidence of the people.

Remember that revolutionaries are not necessarily breaking laws; sending in covert agents to kill them sounds like a stifling of natural rights. That cannot look good on the WG's resume.

[Alsn]

@Masta:

If you have been reading the CP-9 arc, he is becoming more and more serious while having less time for "jokester Luffy".

Are you kidding me? Off the top of my head he was stuck between two buildings for like 5 chapters all the while being "nanda?!!? im stuck?!? huh?! what to do?!" in a pretty non-serious voice. Not to mention that he was picking his nose while spandam was talking to him.

[dameon_reaper]

or the fact that he was playing robot with a soldier's body.

Also, I don't get what you mean. Wouldn't it be the other way around about branding a child with a large bounty and yet its bad to give an adult, Luffy a bounty>?

[Le Lawliet]

@Xetalimn_Erket:

It seems to me that declaring a new "threat" is a bad idea for the WG; it makes them look bad. As such, announcing to the world that Dragon or Luffy were "major threats" would cause great concern over the WG's capacity to keep people safe. The information about them would be kept at a minimum and never outside key concentric circles.

That doesn't answer, however, if revolutionaries are worth bounties. Luffy was already looked at as a major threat back at Alabasta when he beat Croc. The government knew that, and just changed the story that he beat Croc to….. something else. They just hide the reason why they've been given this bounty, but are still considered a huge threat to the stability of said government.

[Setzer]

Luffy is in no way losing the "jokester" attitude.

Two words: "Meat Pockets"

[Le Lawliet]

@Masta:

If you have been reading the CP-9 arc, he is becoming more and more serious while having less time for "jokester Luffy".

Also, I don't get what you mean. Wouldn't it be the other way around about branding a child with a large bounty and yet its bad to give an adult, Luffy a bounty>?

It's not bad to give it to an adult. It's just more significant to give it to a child because… she's a kid, and she's already got this high a bounty. That says something.

[dameon_reaper]

I know but Erket said that if they gave it to Dragon and Luffy, it would be bad for them. It would be much worse for Luffy and Dragon because they are trying to overturn the government and if you were in that government you would want to get rid of it but if Dragon is a revolutionary and he has more to do with it then just screaming out about the government, something tells me he was in the Marines or the government and didn't like how they were doing so he tried to stop them and failed and is now wishing to take it down.

Something tells me Dragon wants to also use Luffy to get to the "truth" which might be One Piece. Luffy is probably one of the only ones who can even find One piece in the first place and that's probably a reason he wants to get there in the first place.

[Xetalimn_Erket]

@yokaiforte:

That doesn't answer, however, if revolutionaries are worth bounties. Luffy was already looked at as a major threat back at Alabasta when he beat Croc. The government knew that, and just changed the story that he beat Croc to….. something else. They just hide the reason why they've been given this bounty, but are still considered a huge threat to the stability of said government.

I do not think the answer of "revolutionaries getting bounties" will be answered anytime soon. The closest example we would have to seeing that would be Crocodile's revolution in Arabasta, and even then, it wasn't fully explained if his eight one million berry bounty was reinstated upon his loss of Shichibukai status.

[Le Lawliet]

I don't think they'd put a bounty on his head after capturing him. >_>

[Xetalimn_Erket]

@yokaiforte:

I don't think they'd put a bounty on his head after capturing him. >_>

Not what I meant. When Croc's Shichibukai status was removed, was his bounty reinstated?

[Le Lawliet]

I don't think they'd reinstate his bounty if they already captured him though. But we really don't know if they did or not.

[Myoti]

Something tells me Dragon wants to also use Luffy to get to the "truth" which might be One Piece. Luffy is probably one of the only ones who can even find One piece in the first place and that's probably a reason he wants to get there in the first place.

I feel more along the lines that Dragon wants Luffy to get there (find One Piece) and accomplish something, something that possibly Dragon cannot do (or may fail to do so). What it is, of course, we don't know, but it seems as though Luffy is being driven to do something he himself doesn't understand and probably won't even realize (and something that won't be totally fulfilled and understood till he reaches Raftel).

And I still have the strong feeling that Dragon is related to Luffy somehow (father, perhaps? =o ).

[Xetalimn_Erket]

@Myoti:

And I still have the strong feeling that Dragon is related to Luffy somehow (father, perhaps? =o ).

Oda's following Toriyama's outline even if it does not seem evident anymore.

Luffy -> Goku
Ace -> Raditz
Saul -> Grandpa Gohan
Blackbeard -> Prince Vegeta?
Roger -> King Vegeta?

It looks to me like the "D's" are following the Saiyans in that,

1. There are only a few of them.
2. They're obviously survivors of some fallen clan.
3. All of them are absurdly more powerful than everyone else.

Bardock, who we know as Goku's father, was a filler character and actually works against the "ascendent heritage" shounen presidence (whereby all shounen protagonists attribute their strength/wealth/power/prestiege to their ancestors and not to themselves). So, I seriously doubt such is the case.

Also notice that by this logic, Teach is Roger's son. That's actually believable and understandable as to why Whitebeard wants him dead.

[Aldrich]

Saul wasn't exactly absurdly more powerful than everyone else as he got wasted something fierce by Aokiji.

I, for one, hope Oda won't give us a "I'm your father/grandfather/uncle - Nooooo!!!" moment between Dragon and Luffy. One of the things that make One Piece an interesting manga is its unpredictability. That kind of stuff has been predicted by every 12 year old manga fans in the universe. Same with Gol D Roger.

[joekido the Second]

Luffy will soon be a revolutionary guy when he reaches Mariejoa.

[Xetalimn_Erket]

@Aldrich:

Saul wasn't exactly absurdly more powerful than everyone else as he got wasted something fierce by Aokiji.

Saul is a Giant, and therefore physically stronger than 95% of the other individuals in this series. He's not a Devil Fruit user, so comparing him to one, especially the most powerful Logia in the series, is a bit silly.

In addendum to my earlier post, Whitebeard is clearly One Piece's Frieza ("Strongest Man in the World" v. "Strongest Being in the Universe"). Like with Frieza and Vegeta, Whitebeard took in the son of his greatest nemesis and that son betrayed him.

@Aldrich:

I, for one, hope Oda won't give us a "I'm your father/grandfather/uncle - Nooooo!!!" moment between Dragon and Luffy. One of the things that make One Piece an interesting manga is its unpredictability. That kind of stuff has been predicted by every 12 year old manga fans in the universe. Same with Gol D Roger.

Signed. OP does not really need drama of that variety. >.>;;

[Myoti]

Even if something like this IS done, we might just see Luffy never finding out. I mean, really, half the stuff that gets "revealed" in this series, Luffy NEVER knows anything about, nor does he care (and yes, it's even possible he never finds out who his grandfather is, even if we do).

[Daz]

The way I see it, Luffy will continue to see himself as a pirate and act like it, but to the world he will be a revolutionary, as of chapter 398. Of course, we all know he won't storm Marijoa in an attempt to "save the world! Bring truth to the people!" But that doesn't matter.
Luffy may not be out to get the world, but the world is out to get him, because the Enies Lobby siege became not only a rescue mission, but a blatant "Fuck you!" in the WGs face.
Luffys' a revolutionary by default now - if for no other reason than protecting Robin, where the "revolutionary" label fits even better.

Think of this: A band of criminals springs a key political prisoner from the governments highly guarded captivity, while destroying and desecrating the base and literally crying out their distate for the government.
Even if they won't bomb the presidental palace, how can they not be revolutionaires?
Really, I agree with Setzer here.