High-definition

(Originally posted in another, related forum.)

Greetings, all. Excellent, excellent work keeping up with One Piece on the cutting edge of episode availability. Episode 273 was so good that the series as a whole finally knocks Hunter X Hunter off the spot as the best anime I've ever seen. Too bad I now have to return to enduring week-long waits between episodes.

The topic of this post is "high-definition". As everyone knows, starting somewhere in the 200s (episode 207, apparently), One Piece started appearing in widescreen format, and indeed almost every fansub of episodes 207+ are presented in this format. I think it's important to take a moment to differentiate between "widescreen" and "high definition" so I can put my question into perspective.

Widescreen: In this case, it refers to the aspect ratio of 16:9, which is horizontally wider than what you get with standard TVs or PC monitors. It has nothing to do with resolution.

High-definition: The most relevant definition of this term is that its vertical resolution exceeds that of normal NTSC. In other words, a vertical resolution exceeding 480. And more specifically, a vertical resolution of either 720 or 1080. This doesn't necessarily have any bearing on whether the aspect ratio is widescreen or not. (Though it's usually safe to assume that if it's high-def, it's also widescreen.)

This is probably very basic knowledge to most people, and I intend it only as a quick reference for anyone who didn't know.

The two main fansubbers of One Piece episodes 207+ (GeruSama and ADC-Elites) have both, thus far, utilized a widescreen resolution of 704x396. This resolution is roughly spot-on for DVD-sourced NTSC (though it's obvious the source is a digital broadcast). It is certainly widescreen. It is not known to me whether this resolution is used because the source raws are 704x396, or instead are purposefully downsized renditions of the high-definition originals. The point is.. 704x396 is not high-definition. And more particularly, true high-definition raws of One Piece, in pristine 1280x720 resolution, are available.

Hunt for the torrent of the latest episode, 273, as a raw provided by somebody called D-CX. Watch it on your PC. If you haven't experienced One Piece in high-definition before, I recommend it. Try an A/B comparison.

So my question is, predictably: Does ADC-Elites have plans to provide high-definition versions of their fansubs?

It would be particularly great if already-released episodes could see the high-def treatment, though this would probably be pushing things.

There are only two barriers to this task that I can think of. First, the subtitles themselves would need to be rendered in a higher resolution before being superimposed. But after all of the main challenges are already done (translating, timing, specialized animated fonts, etc.), such a consideration has to be trivial. Second, the filesize of a fansubbed episode of anime in 720p will probably clock in at over 400mb. This second item should only be a worry to the sort of people for whom quality isn't a concern. There are probably plenty of people out there who would happily download 50mb versions of fansubs with postage-stamp resolutions, yet nobody releases anything of such low quality anymore. So there's my case in point: People do care about quality, especially the fansubbers themselves, for whom the entire operation is an exercise in craftmanship.

Anyway, after episode 273, which was, to me, a landmark in my history of watching anime, I felt compelled to see if I couldn't give this possibility a push in a positive direction. I am fortunate in that my understanding of the Japanese language is decent, so I can enjoy watching the 1280x720 raw of episode 273 without really missing the subtitles, which I have done at least a dozen times. But it would be great if future subtitling efforts were to take advantage of the availability of high-definition raws, and I am impressed enough with ADC-Elite's perfectionism that I feel confident that my plea isn't wasted breath.

Thanks.

Wickio

Simply put, we're planning to release second versions of older episodes we have HD raws for, and release future episodes in HD. However, at the moment we have a lot going on with movie 7 and the like, so I haven't had the time to sort it yet. But rest assured, HD releases will be coming in the near future.

For those who are worrying that they may not be able to handle the HD releases, don't worry, because we also plan to release the downscaled versions on the side.

Hope this answers your question. ^^

Wickio

Buuhan1

Personally I can't watch those cause my screen resolution is 1026x768 and I'm not about to change my resolution and mess with my screen display to fit that resolution just to watch soemthing which looks basicly like the smaller episodes enlarged.

In my opinion its a waste of time but thats only my opinion. Two releases of the same episode would probably get troublesome after awhile tho.

dythim

Tell me about it…

@Buuhan1:

In my opinion its a waste of time but thats only my opinion.

Shrug. I would wager a fair piece of cash that most people have monitors which can support 1280x720 handily. As far as high-definition content being a waste of time, well.. There's a pretty large media industry which seems convinced that a lot of people think otherwise.

@Buuhan1:

Two releases of the same episode would probably get troublesome after awhile tho.

Well, here's how it'll work out in the end. Many people will continue downloading the standard-definition episodes, just as many people seem to prefer Kaizoku-Fansubs' traditional old-codec encodes to their superior X264 releases. These are the people who just want the thing on their PC so they can watch it. Period. They'd probably be happy with a VHS recording. They certainly couldn't be bothered to install a new codec. Everyone else will have the best quality you can get, today. And a year or two down the road when it's finally Bob's turn to wake up to the possibilities of quality, the good old high-def renditions will already be available, so everyone's happy.

A big thank you to Wickio for confirming that high-definition episodes are on the way!

Throes

Asterra, very good explanation, I only have a couple of things I would like to add, firstly, 704x396 is NOT "spot-on" with DVD resolution. All DVDs have the same resolution, wether widescreen or fullscreen, this is 720x480. Now, this is where the aspect ratios of the DVD come into play.

For fullscreen video on a DVD, the TV converts the 1:1 aspect ratios of the pixels into a 4:3 aspect ratio of the pixels. (Roughly 1.33:1 pixel-wise) 640x480 is chosen for a final render resolution because the pixels are being squished and not stretched, providing a high quality release (although I would personally like to see 720x540 resolution episodes, none of the pixels are shrunk that way, and the ultimate DVD quality is kept in full).

Now with a widescreen aspect ratio of 16:9, or roughly 1.77:1 single pixel wise, the screen can either be stretched or squished so the picture doesn't start to look stretched out vertically or squished horizontally. K-F releases widescreen movies to a semi-shrunk down version of the video, Movie 5 was released with a resolution of 720x405 pixels, which is decent. Movie 6's sub was fairly dissapointing because they just took the DVD raw and assumed it was already in widescreen because of the resolution of 720x480 being wider than the more seen 640x480. The subbers didn't figure out that that was the source resolution of ALL DVDs, not just widescreen ones.

Now, High Definition fixed the problem of aspect ratios affecting the source resolution of 720x480 because all high definition is kept with square pixels, meaning that the individual pixels are going to have an aspect ratio of 1:1 instead of having to be stretched or shrunk to a 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio.

Buuhan: My PC has a HD capture card in it, so I can get High Definition broadcasts over the airwaves for free. My monitor has a resolution of 1280x1024, ironically the resolution where 720p video is at the exact resolution it was rendered at when viewed full-screen. (720p meaning 720 pixels tall, progressive scan, meaning the whole picture is scanned at a rate of 24 frames per second)

Now, most of the stations in my area broacast HD in 1080i (meaning that the video is 1080 pixels high, with interlaced scanning, meaning that half of the picture is scanned at one time by having one row of pixels on and one row off and so on, but at a rate double of progressive). This I can get on there too, even though the resolution is WAY bigger than my screen, it's just shrunk down to fit. You can get the 1280x720 pictures on your screen Buuhan, they will only be shrunk down a little.

The Blu-Ray discs you're seeing advertised on TV and in some stores have a resolution of 1080p, which means that a picture that is 1920x1080 is being progressively scanned (meaning whole picture) at a rate of 24 frames per second. This is currently the highest quality video there is, save for movie reels.

Now, I would add on about One Piece on High Definition discs, but it would work better in the other thread for that in the K-F section, so whatever.

Buuhan1

Well, all I can say is if they decide to go full 704x396 releases it will greatly hurt their fans cause people will have to change their resolution (which isn't a problem but atleast for my screen I have to then mess with the settings on my monitor to make it look good in a said resolution).

Look, you can talk to me about specs and facts all you want. Fact is, when I see a normal widescreen video and a 704x396 video I see the same quality just in two different sizes.

704x396 could even be uglier do to everything is in your face and full sized. You gotta admit somethings look better alittle smaller.

Ein

So, what format does the Japanese use for their HI-VISION broadcast: 720P, 1080i or something else?

DarthEnder

@Buuhan1:

You gotta admit somethings look better alittle smaller.

Speak for the contents of your own pants man.

UNKNOWNFILE

PWNED XD

Anyways, I don't know where raws for pre 261 are on the internet. They're not on Share, and Winny sucks. I'm gonna try google.

spaz

or they can be like shinsen with ergo proxy and release the normal one they have been using first and then release the HD and i know that lots of people can't watch HD because there video cards blow

wintergt

@DarthEnder:

Speak for the contents of your own pants man.

So yours looks worse smaller?

@spaz:

or they can be like shinsen with ergo proxy and release the normal one they have been using first and then release the HD and i know that lots of people can't watch HD because there video cards blow

Yeah for example that is me.
I have a laptop with P4 M 1.6 Ghz and VGA 64 MB which is impossible to watch HD.

I have try to watch like .hack roots, and it is very lag which means I cant watch it.

But who have P4 2.4 GHz, you are able to watch it.

I would suggest if really want to release HQ, can either release in h264 with resolution 640 x 480 like the episode of K-F now, or maybe release 2 version with version 2 is the real HD 1080 x 720.

For me, the one piece by K-F now is already in excelent quality. I dont think better quality really affecting. Maybe for some people prefer higher though…

Ein

If you have the right equipment the HD version is much much better. It has more details and bigger picture. Once you have seem them, you'll never go back the the SD version.

The picture is compressed 50%. So the actual screen shot is much better than this.

spaz

well adc should just release a normal version and then the hidef one

Mr. Dimond

Hd Robin-chwaaaaaan! My Dreams Have Come True!

Buuhan1

Well Robin sure the hell looks uglier in the HD version. XD

I stand by it being a waste of space.

Throes

@Ein:

If you have the right equipment the HD version is much much better. It has more details and bigger picture. Once you have seem them, you'll never go back the the SD version.

[qimg]http://i3.tinypic.com/23tqqlf.jpg[/qimg]

The picture is compressed 50%. So the actual screen shot is much better than this.

Question, how the HELL did you get the HD version to play properly in Quicktime? Please tell me it's also a free to do.

Laeliel

Buuhan1… Stop bitching about this, you're not forced to download them yanno. A lot of people came asking if we'd release an HD version, so I guess some persons care. I can't watch those raws myself anyway ^^; They would be encoded in h264 I think... ask that to Wickio

Ein

@Throes:

Question, how the HELL did you get the HD version to play properly in Quicktime? Please tell me it's also a free to do.

I have a Mac and use Flip4Mac's free plug-in to play WMV files.

http://www.flip4mac.com/download.htm

Throes

@Ein:

I have a Mac and use Flip4Mac's free plug-in to play WMV files.

http://www.flip4mac.com/download.htm

Oh! So they DO have a free plug-in! I always thought that their trial was the best I could do! Thank you very much.

Darkestsith6

I'll be going to college soon, so I'll be limited to the amount of bandwidth I can use, so I'll have to unfortunately stick to lower res version

Huh? H264 releases arent bigger, you can store more quality on the same filesize! .hack Roots is around 171 MB and HUGE image

dythim

H264 and HDTV are two different things…

davybackfight

The H-D is beautiful.

Audity

yes

I was really noticing how bad the quality was in 273 I think it was. HD is perfect. I can't see any flaws.

This is freakin GREAT!!! HD one piece subbed… I can't wait! You people who can't play 720p really need to upgrade your computer because the difference is like night and day. Thanks for considering it ADC. You guys rule!

Oh and like a said in another forum... I have an ridiculously fast connection and will definitely seed those big files.

Demon Rin

a quick Sugestion, if you guys at ADC would just remove the text effects and karaoke (thus making the subtitles quite plain) then output them as a .sub file, people who have VLC player or Vob Sub could open it with the Raws.
that would save you a lot of work redoing all of the text effects and whatnot

a quick Sugestion, if you guys at ADC would just remove the text effects and karaoke (thus making the subtitles quite plain) then output them as a .sub file, people who have VLC player or Vob Sub could open it with the Raws.
that would save you a lot of work redoing all of the text effects and whatnot

I personally think the text effects add a lot to the anime but if i had to choose between this and no HD at all i'd take it!

Wickio

Sorry, but we don't really wanna hand out our script files. Don't worry, it's really just a matter of reencoding the scripts to HD raws. ^^

Speaking of the image clarity of 720p and the ease of reencoding already-developed scripts, I make the timely observation that episode 275 in 1280x720 has recently become available, once again from some group or person called D-CX.

Ein

There will not be any OP for the next few weeks, hopefully they will have some time to sub some of the HD shows

Audity

I'd rather wait for K-F to come around to start doing the HDs. Those things are so huge, but are fitting for the great K-F oh hi ADC don't kill me >_>

Mr. Dimond

Is K-F even doing HD? It would be nice if they started with 207. I want Porche in all her HD glory :3

K-F uses DVD's which are nice, but nothing compared to D-CX's HD rips…Honestly, like i said earlier, D-CX's HD episodes are the best 720p rips (out of any anime) i've seen to date.

I really hope ADC releases some HD OP in the following weeks because i'm going to have a heart attack without my OP fix.

Speaking of the image clarity of 720p and the ease of reencoding already-developed scripts, I make the timely observation that episode 275 in 1280x720 has recently become available, once again from some group or person called D-CX.

I'm getting it now

UNKNOWNFILE

D-CX's releases only cover 261 to 275 as of this writing.

Also, I don't care if the episodes are 1280x720 or 704x396. It's the content that matters, so stop whining about quality.

Also, I don't care if the episodes are 1280x720 or 704x396. It's the content that matters, so stop whining about quality.

No whining… but i have to respectfully disagree with you. Quality of the video greatly effects my enjoyment from it.

UNKNOWNFILE

Oh, so that means if you watched the episodes pre-HD on Fuji TV, would you still say that you didn't enjoy them because the quality sucked?

(Flame war is brewing. if (flamewar == active) { open(can_of_whup-ass); } else { return to_discussion; })

No I definitely understand what you're saying… However i'm not saying that having them in lower quality lessons the enjoyment, it's more like that having them in HD raises it over whatever it already is. I totally understand if other viewers don't see it this way because right now im in the minority. :happy:

UNKNOWNFILE

There are some points against HD, though:

It is larger than resized versions. Resized versions save bandwidth that might be needed on the distro servers.
HD versions use unholy amounts of CPU, so HD-only releases will easily pwn older computers.

If it bothers you, just watch it raw after you know what they're saying.

All good points and by all means i wouldn't expect ADC to do HD releases if they don't feel they have the extra bandwidth. But i still wish ADC, like many other groups in recent months, would release both HD and non-HD files.

Ein

I don't understand why some people in this forum are so hostile toward the HD release?

No one is asking them to provide resources for the HD releases. If those prefer the SD version, they will not be affected. ADC have said they will do it and will release both SD and HD version (the HD version probably at a later date).

Laeliel

ADC have said they will do it and will release both SD and HD version (the HD version probably at a later date).

Exactly… The HD aren't really priority now, we may go backwards to do them later, but they'll never take priority over the 'SD' eps... We'll continue releasing weekly with those raws (hoping saiyaman gets better) then release HDs later on.

Not to sound pushy but is there any news on HD releases? Just wondering if it's still on the agenda?