Cowboy Bebop

[captain usopp]

I didn't see a CB thread. I did a search. So if there already is, so sue me.

Anyways, I just finished watching the series again, and there still seems to be stuff that goes over my head. I thought I'd start a thread to ask a few questions, and maybe there are other people out there who want to talk Bebop. I know it was a popular series when it came out.

Anywho, Everything involving Spike and his past sort of confuses me. The way they tell the story, you have to read between the lines, and be keen to picking up little details.

From my understanding

! Spike was in some kind of big mob organisation or something. So were poeple from his past, such as Julia, and Vishios (sp) Something went wrong and Spike and Julia went into hiding. Spike faked his death, which is why they always refer to Spike having died already. Julia stayed away, cause she was suposed to have killed Spike. Vishous, I don't get him at all. My best understanding, is he is like Kefka from FF6. Just a crazy guy hungering for power. In the last episode Julia says, "We don't need all that (weapons) if we run away" so what were they doing? And after Julia died, Spike went after Vishous. I can think of reasons, but what was the actual reason for this. I didn't know. So is there someone really smart out there, who understood it a little better than I did. Oh ya, and what is all this about his eyes. past and present crap?

[Cap'n Carter]

From what I understand/remember about Spike's past, he, Julia, and Vicious were in a love triangle. Spike talks about leaving the syndicate and eloping with Julia. Vicious found out about Spike and Julia, and tells Julia to either kill Spike, or face the penalty of death for treason. Spike fakes his death by getting into a gunfight.

Spike goes after Vicious because he was the official leader of the syndicate at the time, and thus responsible for Julia's murder. And also, they kind of hate each other. I guess it was for closure and to settle everything.

Spike's right eye is prostetic.

[Vanessa]

Since his eye is prosthetic, does he have any depth perception? Just wondering, cause he still does some crazy shit even with one eye.

[captain usopp]

what tells you it was a gun fight spike got in? I never picked up on that? I got the fact that his eye was prostetic, but what's the past and present stuff he babbles about?
(wow carter, you can play nice)

[Cr4zy]

The prostetic eye, ishis past. He tries to forget the past but he can't cause the cause of his accident with his prostetic eye was from the past. His normal eye, is the present; it looks into what happens in the present. Think of it as a battle scar. Like Zoro's big ass scar from Mihawk.

[Zephos]

@captain:

what tells you it was a gun fight spike got in? I never picked up on that? I got the fact that his eye was prostetic, but what's the past and present stuff he babbles about?
(wow carter, you can play nice)

Theres a brief flashback right at the start of the series (shown later) of the gunfight we can assume Spike "died" in. I think he lost his eye there too.

As for your second question..
Basically its the same thing with Gutts from Berserk.
One eye (the working one) sees the present. And symbolically he still sees his past with the one thats gone (because he lost it during the height of his past). Basically its symbolic of him not being able to let go, of still living in the past, meaning the past is still a part of his every breathing moment.
And in the end…he dies after both parts of his past die (Julia and Viscious).

The prostetic eye works like a normal one though. As...its the future:ninja: .
Start of Episode 6 has him recalling his eye surgery.

[captain usopp]

ah, thanks guys. It's all symbolic. the eye and his death. (all is lost, so he's lost) I still think he was silly going back like that. Unless his reason was, he's the only one who can kill Viscious, he has to save the world from him. If he just went there to die….I like the FMA phylosophy better. "You can continue to live as long as you still have 2 good legs to keep you going"

Is there anyone else out there who still feels like talking Bebop? I'd still like to discuss it more.

[Zephos]

Well if you want Spike's reason to die….he said it himself to Jet right before leaving.
The Cat Story... Explains it all.

In the end he attains peace, the ending song "Blue". Blue is Nirvanna in Budhism I think..
So a sad ending, but a happy one too in some sense.

[Cap'n Carter]

I always felt bad for Jet, since the series kind of leaves him hanging in a damaged ship with his leg all screwed up.

[captain usopp]

I thought the ending theme was "Real Folk Blues" Unless that's what you are refering to.

[Cap'n Carter]

Blue is the ending for the final episode. It's sung entirely in English, and is a really gorgeous song.

[Zephos]

What Carter said.

This is a great site for identifying music and other things in Bebop.
http://rfblues.aaanime.net/

[Cr4zy]

I like the opening song "Tank". Korean game shows use it all the time. Also, I heard a rumor (probably false) of a second Cowboy Bebop.

[Inferno]

@Mr.Prince:

Also, I heard a rumor (probably false) of a second Cowboy Bebop.

Perhaps you are thinking about Samurai Champloo (same creators as Bebop)?

[Zephos]

I heard vague rumours about a second series….that followed V.T from Episode 7 (the Heavy Metal Queen).
Or that was just Watanabe picking a character if he HAD to continue.

[Cap'n Carter]

There was a short story series on the Bebop website about VT, I think.

[KaizokuFan22]

Cowboy Bebop is coming back to AS. From what I'm reading here
http://www.adultswim.com/schedule/index.html
I will watch this.. 1st time seeing this anime so whats the genre of this anime?

[Cap'n Carter]

Science fiction.

Pseudo-detective stuff.

I'm not sure if "awesome" counts as a genre.

[Geoff-s]

Maybe I'll actually be able to catch the last two episodes this time. For some reason something always comes up and I miss those two whenever AS airs them.

[KaizokuFan22]

@Cap'n:

Science fiction.

Pseudo-detective stuff.

I'm not sure if "awesome" counts as a genre.

Cool. I am a fan of decective anime so this anime should be cool.Thank you:happy:

[Cap'n Carter]

Not really "detective" in the sense of Detective Conan though, but in the terms of "some hardboiled-ness going on, track and chase down the bad guy, kick his ass, etc." It's about space bounty hunters, if you didn't know (and I'm not sure if it's possible to not know).

[FireFistAce 0]

Did Cowboy Bebop Manga get cancelled? I can only find three volumes besides Lone Star; One had to do with Spike stumbling upon a illegal Hyperspace gate operation, one involved Ed and a crazy guy on a space orphanage, and the other one involved Faye and an old friend…

I guess no one found it as appealing in Manga format.

[Shark]

That's because the manga lacks an amazing soundtrack.

[Radical jack]

I read somewhere that cb wasn't as critcally acclaimed in japan as it is here…

Don't know if that source is true but that would be really weird if it was.

[Shanks1Piece]

Everyone who is debating watching this series-STOP AND WATCH IT.

I first started watching it after a friend recommended it to me a few years ago and now next to Monster it is my favorite anime series. Awesome sound track, action scenes, and it actually makes you think to understand things such as the character's pasts and don't just come out and tell you which IMO is one redeeming quality of the show. Also, who doesn't like sci-fi space bounty hunters kicking ass. It's such a shame this show isn't very popular. It beats the shit out of Naruto, Bleach, Trinity Blood or any other anime they show on Adult Swim/Toonami.

Also, there are only three volumes of the manga (I own all three) and it is actually very good IMO. They reveal some things about the characters that the show didn't and gives a little more clarity on the pasts of all the characters.

[Taleran]

I liked the Movie and Vincent far more than I ever liked the TV plot episodes and Vicious, I don't he just seemed so overwhelmingly cliche (who brings a sword to a gunfight)

huh @ Bebop being unpopular lol

and I could never read the manga because the Dub was spot on and the show NEEDS it soundtrack

[DougyDougyGiro!*]

@Shanks1Piece:

It's such a shame this show isn't very popular.

Am pretty sure it's popular.

[FireFistAce 0]

@Taleran:

I liked the Movie and Vincent far more than I ever liked the TV plot episodes and Vicious, I don't he just seemed so overwhelmingly cliche (who brings a sword to a gunfight)

[Implosion]

@Taleran:

I liked the Movie and Vincent far more than I ever liked the TV plot episodes and Vicious, I don't he just seemed so overwhelmingly cliche (who brings a sword to a gunfight)

huh @ Bebop being unpopular lol

and I could never read the manga because the Dub was spot on and the show NEEDS it soundtrack

Yes, the soundtrack is basically part of the story. It all fits in context perfectly.

[Buuhan1]

I'm still amazed people have yet to see the entire series. Adult swim has shown it like….16 times over the years. A lot of people say they are sick of seeing it and gets pissed everytime AS decides to show it again. But I personally don't get sick of it. It's a lot better than them airing FLCL over and over, while a nice little series, is only 6 bloody episodes and that gets old fast in reruns.

[Taleran]

@Implosion:

Yes, the soundtrack is basically part of the story. It all fits in context perfectly.

Case

(ASK DNA)

and

Point

(movie Ending)

[Malintex_Terek]

I've never seen Cowboy Bebop beyond the first episode, though I saw the movie. Frankly…I think the series is good, but I never understood why it recieved so much credit for "showing adults cartoons can be for older kids as well". Like Yu-Gi-Oh!, during the days when Bebop was first airing, the whole "adult accessibility" spiel was being spammed all over the place like some sort of weeaboo conspiracy. That turned me off to the show and I just decided it was inferior to Outlaw Star (out of justified elitism, since the Bebop fans were quite vocal with calling OS "trash" back then) and never watched it.

Saw the movie on STARS and enjoyed it, though. Not sure how it compares to the series.

Also, I don't care for the ending. I don't hate it/love it, but why people consider the ending an epic spoiler escapes me.

[gogoedward]

@Cap'n:

Not really "detective" in the sense of Detective Conan though, but in the terms of "some hardboiled-ness going on, track and chase down the bad guy, kick his ass, etc." It's about space bounty hunters, if you didn't know (and I'm not sure if it's possible to not know).

You look for the terms "Film noir" and "pulp"

And it could also be classified as steam-punk in some ways, though it's more sci-fi. (But not so sci-fi that it'd be considered cyber-punk, at least I wouldn't consider it as such)

to Radical Jack: Yeah, it wasn't as big in Japan as it was around the world (and especially in the US) Much of the series wasn't aired in Japan for being too violent, and obviously the series' ratings suffered for it. Much of it's success is from it's releases in other countries.

Samurai Champloo (I beleive) did much better, as it's not nearly as violent, and is much more eastern (as opposed to the VERY western Bebop)

I can't wait for the next series from Watanabe, especially because I want to see what the soundtrack will be like. He's had jazz and hip hop, what's next I wonder….

[Malintex_Terek]

Disco. It'll be disco in Victorian Britain with vampies, gargoyles and exhiled Austrian mad scientists.

[CosmicDebris]

CB is actually the anime that got me REALLY into anime…There were some that I had seen and liked before, but when I got to "Ballad of Fallen Angels" it was like a big turning point. Something about the way it was directed with the music (particularly the Green Bird sequence with Spike falling out the window), just made me feel like "yeah, this is why I love animation".
And Mushroom Samba - funniest episode ever.

[Zephos]

@Malintex_Terek:

I've never seen Cowboy Bebop beyond the first episode, though I saw the movie. Frankly…I think the series is good, but I never understood why it recieved so much credit for "showing adults cartoons can be for older kids as well". Like Yu-Gi-Oh!, during the days when Bebop was first airing, the whole "adult accessibility" spiel was being spammed all over the place like some sort of weeaboo conspiracy. That turned me off to the show and I just decided it was inferior to Outlaw Star (out of justified elitism, since the Bebop fans were quite vocal with calling OS "trash" back then) and never watched it.

Saw the movie on STARS and enjoyed it, though. Not sure how it compares to the series.

Also, I don't care for the ending. I don't hate it/love it, but why people consider the ending an epic spoiler escapes me.

Wait, what, waht, huh?

I was going to roll my eyes at you judging it without seeing it, but now I don't know what youv'e seen.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Zephos:

Wait, what, waht, huh?

Don't tell me you've never heard of "SPIKE DIES"? :wassat:

@Zephos:

I was going to roll my eyes at you judging it without seeing it, but now I don't know what youv'e seen.

I don't like your tone.

In the past two years I've seen a huge reservoir of shows, which just adds to the legitimacy of my ability to make correct inferences about a show from the beginning, or at least discern its potential. Not to mention I have most of the character backgrounds/events spoiled for me, which already gives me good insight into judging the series.

Usually, spoiling doesn't bother me that much and just flavours the show when I watch it - case in point, Gunbuster and Diebuster. Knowing the end result just built up anticipation.

I also have the ability to enjoy a show for what it is and not compare it to other shows produced later. In that sense, I'm different from the hordes of other people who don't want to watch old anime because it looks uglier than the digi-paint stuff.

My intuition tells me Cowboy Bebop is a lot like FLCL - it's not that great, but people have a lot of nostalgia for it, so they prop it up on a pedstle. Frankly, I'm nostalgic for some shows as well, but that doesn't mean they were the best shows ever…

I only recently saw FLCL. As in, two weeks ago. Prior to that, I couldn't sit through more than than eight minutes of the first episode (note: I watched it during the first [adult swim] broadcast), I felt I wouldn't like the show.

Even with Gurren-Lagann and Diebuster as FLCL-ish, I still didn't like the show and found it rather stupid. I only finished it out of obligation to my computer for the tiresome download, and I saw both sub + dub just to make sure there wasn't something off that prevented me from liking it.

But if I take that opinion to the dogs, I'll end up being called a troll.

tl;dr - LOL OPINIONS.

[Zephos]

@Malintex_Terek:

Don't tell me you've never heard of "SPIKE DIES"? :wassat:

I don't like your tone.

In the past two years I've seen a huge reservoir of shows, which just adds to the legitimacy of my ability to make correct inferences about a show from the beginning, or at least discern its potential. Not to mention I have most of the character backgrounds/events spoiled for me, which already gives me good insight into judging the series.

Usually, spoiling doesn't bother me that much and just flavours the show when I watch it - case in point, Gunbuster and Diebuster. Knowing the end result just built up anticipation.

I also have the ability to enjoy a show for what it is and not compare it to other shows produced later. In that sense, I'm different from the hordes of other people who don't want to watch old anime because it looks uglier than the digi-paint stuff.

My intuition tells me Cowboy Bebop is a lot like FLCL - it's not that great, but people have a lot of nostalgia for it, so they prop it up on a pedstle. Frankly, I'm nostalgic for some shows as well, but that doesn't mean they were the best shows ever…

I only recently saw FLCL. As in, two weeks ago. Prior to that, I couldn't sit through more than than eight minutes of the first episode (note: I watched it during the first [adult swim] broadcast), I felt I wouldn't like the show.

Even with Gurren-Lagann and Diebuster as FLCL-ish, I still didn't like the show and found it rather stupid. I only finished it out of obligation to my computer for the tiresome download, and I saw both sub + dub just to make sure there wasn't something off that prevented me from liking it.

But if I take that opinion to the dogs, I'll end up being called a troll.

tl;dr - LOL OPINIONS.

Theres so much wrong with this post I'm getting a headache.

[tony-kun]

I liked the ending simply for the music and action(rushing into enemy base and all)

but overall, never really cared much for the series. Found it quite boring in the middle.

I liked Champloo ALOT more.(made by same company, right?)

Edit: Why Zephos? I thought Terek has good points. People put their "firsts" up on a pedestal with many things.

Like DBZ and street fighter as well. The reason adults hold it in such high reguard these days may just be because they were 13 staying up late on weekdays watching it on a adult swim.

Especially FLCL, which I just did not get the hype at all.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Zephos:

Theres so much wrong with this post I'm getting a headache.

What do you want me to say? "Cowboy Bebop is overrated, it's actually a really generic space anime and people only like it because it was their first "deep" show?"

I know better than that, and you do as well. Don't shrug off giving me a proper response, address me directly if you believe Bebop to truely be worth defending against a skeptic. You might just convince me to watch it - Carter was the one who got me to give FLCL another chance.

[Zephos]

@Malintex_Terek:

What do you want me to say? "Cowboy Bebop is overrated, it's actually a really generic space anime and people only like it because it was their first "deep" show?"

I know better than that, and you do as well. Don't shrug off giving me a proper response, address me directly if you believe Bebop to truely be worth defending against a skeptic. You might just convince me to watch it - Carter was the one who got me to give FLCL another chance.

It was the blathering on about intuitional experience .

I don't really care.

If you havn't seen it, you havn't seen it.
This has very little to do with Bebop and more to do with how little patience I have for people talking about things they havn't seen like they…well, have. You went beyond simply saying "Eh, dosen't look like my cup of tea" into thesis mode, which was really just pointless. Especially musing about the ending as no big deal.

I'm not denying its overated. But simply writing something off as nostolgia loved, or flat out saying thats the reason its held in high regard at all (lol Tonykun) is every bit a non-arguement as my first response.
Its Ad Hominem crap unless youv'e got actual mass sightings of seeing 20 somethings re-watch it and be dissapointed.

Bebop came and went for me already, but bad reasons to write stuff off, I still have a low place for that in my heart.

[Taleran]

@Malintex_Terek:

Don't tell me you've never heard of "SPIKE DIES"? :wassat:

its not that its deep or not deep, but dumbing down such a massive event into 2 words is well ludicrious.

[Zephos]

The biggest problem is your classing it with FLCL and EVA in the "bullshit psuedo intellectual vague religous symbols deeep" hype catagory.

I can't recall anyone, hypeman, critic, fanboy, anyone who would call it deep.

Its purely wonderfully done style and character sketchs.

Its David Bowie not Tool.

[Buuhan1]

Last time I checked, Outlaw Star is no where close to the greatness of Cowboy Bebop.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Zephos:

If you havn't seen it, you havn't seen it.

Ridiculous. That's as elitist a comment as I've seen you say. Ever.

I'm not going to make the assertion that, "well, people make assumptions all the time about a series, therefore it is OK to do that". What I'm saying is, I've had a taste of Bebop and I've been around the block before. I'm pretty sure the series isn't what people say it is, and even it it was it's not my cup of tea anyway. My opinion could change, of course, but I'm pretty sure I'm right in this and everyone else here is just influenced by nostalgia.

Getting me to watch twenty six episodes of a series I don't think is very good, only with the possible result of me saying, "well, I was right, it wasn't that great" will just have the people here go, "GTFO troll".

Now that's plain rude.

I still haven't forgotten SetaGinny threatening to ban people for bashing Eva simply because they "didn't see it when it was innovative" or something along those lines. It's that kind of stubborness that really grates me, especially when people don't realize it.

@Zephos:

This has very little to do with Bebop and more to do with how little patience I have for people talking about things they havn't seen like they…well, have. You went beyond simply saying "Eh, dosen't look like my cup of tea" into thesis mode, which was really just pointless. Especially musing about the ending as no big deal.

It's not a big deal, in fact it seems like a rather forced, rushed ending.

@Zephos:

I'm not denying its overated. But simply writing something off as nostolgia loved, or flat out saying thats the reason its held in high regard at all (lol Tonykun) is every bit a non-arguement as my first response.

I'm not writing if off because I think people are too nostalgic, I think the praise for Bebop even now is excessive because people are too unwilling to write off their nostalgia. When I see the series, I'll evaluate it for how entertaining it is, not because it was "innovative" or "mah first animu" or something along those lines, which apparently some people consider "essential" to enjoying the show.

No offense to the fans, but if Bebop has to be my first show for me to enjoy it, then frankly it's not worth watching right now. Might as well be Pokemon or Flint the Time Detective or something along those lines.

@Zephos:

Its Ad Hominem crap unless youv'e got actual mass sightings of seeing 20 somethings re-watch it and be dissapointed.

I frequent another, calmer forum than AP and there are five or so regulars in the anime category. One saw Bebop when it came out, the other three saw it last year, the year before, and three years prior, respectively. None of them were nearly as impressed as the first, who went out of his way to go to Canada to have Wendee Lee sign his DVD box of the first season (she was visiting a convention there).

Notice the disparity?

@Zephos:

The biggest problem is your classing it with FLCL and EVA in the "bullshit psuedo intellectual vague religous symbols deeep" hype catagory.

That wasn't my intent, and I'm sorry. I just meant to contrast it with something "shallow" that doesn't touch on character development.

Maybe we should use DEEP to refer to what you're talking about. :happy:

[CosmicDebris]

@Malintex_Terek:

Ridiculous. That's as elitist a comment as I've seen you say. Ever.

Yes, it's totally elitist to tell someone who hasn't seen a series that they haven't seen a series… o.O

If you don't have any interest in watching a show, fine, there's plenty that I don't even want to give a try, but in that case there's nothing that one can say about the series that can be taken seriously other than "sorry, never saw it". Anything else is just talking out your ass for the heck of it.

It's just an anime. A very entertaining one, but you aren't going to have some kind of epiphany or life changing experience watching it. Though someone told me Akira was like that. I didn't much care for Akira but I'm glad I saw it anyway.

[Zephos]

Ridiculous. That's as elitist a comment as I've seen you say. Ever.

to Cosmic post

I'm not going to make the assertion that, "well, people make assumptions all the time about a series, therefore it is OK to do that". What I'm saying is, I've had a taste of Bebop and I've been around the block before.

You watched the movie and liked it.
And saw the first episode in a series that changes tone every episode.

I'm pretty sure the series isn't what people say it is, and even it it was it's not my cup of tea anyway.

What do people say it is? Deep?

My opinion could change, of course, but I'm pretty sure I'm right in this and everyone else here is just influenced by nostalgia.

You do raelize your coomiting the classic "The fans suck, so the series must." logic mistake?

Getting me to watch twenty six episodes of a series I don't think is very good, only with the possible result of me saying, "well, I was right, it wasn't that great" will just have the people here go, "GTFO troll".

I'm suprised you would think of us that way.

I still haven't forgotten SetaGinny threatening to ban people for bashing Eva simply because they "didn't see it when it was innovative" or something along those lines. It's that kind of stubborness that really grates me, especially when people don't realize it.

As someone who has bashed Eva for more ont his very forum, your going to have to bring up more than what a long missing mod did.

It's not a big deal, in fact it seems like a rather forced, rushed ending.

See, this is it. This is where your overstepping the "Dosen't look like my thing" line into crazy psychic critic mode. Do you know the context of the death? Do you know the amount of time spent on it? Do you know that its rushed? Do you know that its forced?
I mean it is forshadowed in about 10 episodes, including the first.

No offense to the fans, but if Bebop has to be my first show for me to enjoy it, then frankly it's not worth watching right now. Might as well be Pokemon or Flint the Time Detective or something along those lines.

Who is saying "its really good ebcause its the first I saw"?

I frequent another, calmer forum than AP and there are five or so regulars in the anime category. One saw Bebop when it came out, the other three saw it last year, the year before, and three years prior, respectively. None of them were nearly as impressed as the first, who went out of his way to go to Canada to have Wendee Lee sign his DVD box of the first season (she was visiting a convention there).
Notice the disparity?

Three is a mass?

[taboo]

I still haven't forgotten SetaGinny threatening to ban people for bashing Eva simply because they "didn't see it when it was innovative" or something along those lines. It's that kind of stubborness that really grates me, especially when people don't realize it.

i am detecting some irony

[Jay_n_Silentbob]

Bickering aside, Cowboy Bebop is arguably my favorite anime (some others come close). And I can't say it's from nostalgia, since no one I knew at the time even heard of anime. It was however, one of my first, but I doubt this is why I think it's so excellent. It's just that no other anime has ever done so much to make the animation, story, characters and music (especially the music) synergize like they did in Bebop. IMO (Of course).

@Malintex_Terek:

I frequent another, calmer forum than AP and there are five or so regulars in the anime category. One saw Bebop when it came out, the other three saw it last year, the year before, and three years prior, respectively. None of them were nearly as impressed as the first, who went out of his way to go to Canada to have Wendee Lee sign his DVD box of the first season (she was visiting a convention there).

Notice the disparity?

I don't know if I'm as die hard as that guy; to go to Canada just to get something signed…But then again, I wouldn't do that with any anime I've seen yet (and probably ever)...

@CosmicDebris:

It's just an anime.

Agreed.

[captain usopp]

terex, would you like some green eggs and ham.