I haven't watched the live-action so I'm just using impressions, but a boring character with little screentime is generally better than a lame character with a lot more screentime.
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Cowboy Bebop
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I don't see why everyone hates Vicious, the original one was a boring character with a bird that would have looked ridiculous in live action.
The bird isn't the issue as far as I've heard the issue is that his character comes off as cliche and therefore his character was "ruined". But as mentioned Anime Vicious was a pretty shallow and unintresting character to start with. And the way the anime wanted you to care about his and Spike's history without properly explaining why would should was just as bad.
I haven't watched the live-action so I'm just using impressions,
Personally I wouldn't like for example you have people complaining about how Faye in the anime was likable whereas LA Faye isn't and I'm over here thinking to myself "When Was She Likeable?" at least personally.
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I don't see why everyone hates Vicious, the original one was a boring character with a bird that would have looked ridiculous in live action.
The bird was too much sure, (It was a Harlock homage) but he at least seemed menacing, in control, and had a cool voice.
He also had like 10 minutes of total screentime over the entire 26 episodes, and 7 of those mminutes were him kicking ass and the rest was ominous looming.
And for 10 minutes, that's all that's needed.
We had hours of the live action guy. During which he whined and complained and killed minions for no reason and beat women and yelled like a psychopath and just generally looked dumb, like an idiot whose minions would have betrayed and killed him years ago, ho can't possbily hold control. And the awful version of Julia. What the hell was with that ending? Ugh.
Every single time the show cut to them it ground to a halt and got worse. If you cut them entirely from the show except for like 2 episodes, the show instantly gets better.
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And the way the anime wanted you to care about his and Spike's history without properly explaining why would should was just as bad.
That was entirely so the viewer could be in the same boat as Jett and Faye. We don't understand why Julia was so special, or what Spike's relationship was with Vicious. We get enough clues to piece it together, and that's enough. It's his dark past and the one woman he loved… and that's enough. She's perfect to him and Viscous was basically his brother and nothing the show did could ever make her the same ideal and perfect to us as she was to Spike.
Having them be vague enigmas, making us wonder "Why is Spike risking his life to avenge this person?" is an intentional choice.
The show could have easily cut any random episode to give us an in depth flashback for episode 24, but they didn't. Having a rough idea of what happened and filling it in ourselves is stronger and more impactful than in blatantly and boringly spelling it out. Same way we never needed to see Darth Vader as an 8 year old.
Personally I wouldn't like for example you have people complaining about how Faye in the anime was likable whereas LA Faye isn't and I'm over here thinking to myself "When Was She Likeable?" at least personally.
She's likeable in the Japanese. In English she's just kind of always indignant and rude but the voice fits. I liked Live Action Faye better, we actually could see and understand why she was hanging out with these guys.
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She's perfect to him and Viscous
Thick & sticky he is not :ninja:
He also had like 10 minutes of total screentime over the entire 26 episodes,
You're serious?
That was entirely so the viewer could be in the same boat as Jett and Faye. We don't understand why Julia was so special, or what Spike's relationship was with Vicious. We get enough clues to piece it together, and that's enough. It's his dark past and the one woman he loved… and that's enough.
Having them be vague enigmas, making us wonder "Why is Spike risking his life to avenge this person?" is an intentional choice.
I get this but at the end of the day it didn't make these characters and their connection to Spike terribly intresting with how it was written. I just think this type of writing choice if I haven't stated this before comes off a bit lazy at times. Like I get there are somethings you don't and should not have to explain to an audience but the stuff with Spike, Julia, Vicious, & The Red Dragon Syndicate stuff that takes up 5 episodes kinda should have been explained instead of what they did in the anime relegating it to vague dialog, barely in context flashbacks, and the closing credits.
Julia being killed off the episode after she's introduced in person after all the stuff the anime told us about her and her relationship with Spike upto that point was bad precisely because how barely fleshed out she felt as a character. If they didn't have enough episodes to go over all this they would've been better just excising it beforehand.
The show could have easily cut any random episode to give us an in depth flashback for episode 24, but they didn't. Having a rough idea of what happened and filling it in ourselves is stronger and more impactful than in blatantly and boringly spelling it out. Same way we never needed to see Darth Vader as an 8 year old.
They had an excuse with Star Wars to not cover Anakin's past in depth since the original trilogy was about Luke and his journey not Anakin's past (and was the plan always to have Vader be Anakin from the start?) also knowing what we know all that wouldn't have fit in the original movies anyway. Bebop didn't really have that leeway with Spike being one of three main characters.
She's likeable in the Japanese. In English she's just kind of always indignant
I guess that's why I wasn't high on Faye but I honestly can't remember after all these years.
I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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You're serious?
I dunno, 15 minutes of screentime? He was only in like 4 episodes. That first one with the church, the two parter in the middle, and the finale. Mostly action scenes in there, he didn't fill the screen time of those episodes. People talked about him and the results of his actions a fair bit, but actual on-screen time I don't think was that much.
I haven't rewatched it since I stopped having Cartoon Network, it's been a while, I could easily be mistaken. I'm not exactly a huge Bebop fan. I'm way more an Outlaw Star guy.
Regardless, it certainly wasn't the literal hours the live action one had.
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Having seen it, I think I enjoyed it for what it was- "very expensive fan fiction" (as John Cho said). And I am looking forward to a season 2. Maybe the show runners will take the criticism and make adjustments.
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We had hours of the live action guy. During which he whined and complained and killed minions for no reason and beat women and yelled like a psychopath and just generally looked dumb, like an idiot whose minions would have betrayed and killed him years ago, ho can't possbily hold control.
I really dislike the romanticized criminal stereotype. Live action Viscious is an asshole, insecure and in a position of power because of his father, he achieved things because of Spike and then he wasnt betrayed because, again, big leader son. It actually felt pretty realistic to me.
Now, the ending was really bad.
! I had gotten spoiled that Julia turned on Spike, but not the details. Given all the information that was shown, I expected her to betray him as a way to escape the mafia world. She was a barista that got involved with hitmen and suffered for years, so it would have made inmense sense if Spike coming to take her would result in not wanting anything with him either. Wanting to take over the syndicate is weak not only because it feels out of character, but at this point it's not clear what's even left of the syndicate.
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Finally reached the end, for the most part I enjoyed it. Love the camerawork, space cgi looks wonderful, music, seriously you gotta ask? Got some laughs out of me, got some fave eps to, even liked some of the shakeups to the usual episode plots. As I said in a previous post, it took awhile for the performances of the leads to grow on me, but they did and I liked the dynamic between them. Certainly not a perfect live action version, but also not the worst either despite what some of these YouTube reviews keep saying (Honestly what did I expect from AngryJoe, I love him but the man can be utterly bias when it comes to film and TV shows). That said though…
! Yeeah I agree about the Vicious/Julia subplot, the more it went on, the more I groaned when the story cut to them. Now I wasn't really much on Vicious in the anime, he was just a usual stoic scary dude with a katana who'd kill and betray in the time it takes a pin to drop. Sure I would've liked to know more about him and how Spike and he had a falling out there in more detail, but was fine with given the minimal. Otherwise, there wasn't really much to go on other than what we were introduced to. And Julia, well, just a tragic love interest. A badass one in the last few eps, sure, but that was it. Here I know they're trying to flesh them out more but having Vicious having more of a hair-trigger temper was honestly a bad move. You cannot take him seriously, even more so when others keep talking down to him and he gives off that ridiculous pouty face or tries to be threatening. Just silly. And Julia, I didn't care one lick. It's interesting how she got involved in the Syndicate but but nothing else really hooked me about her and once she made the suggestion to Vicious to stage a coup I had a hunch I knew where this was going and sure enough, oh look, she's the villain. I get the feeling they're doing this so come second season, Spike will have to be the one to kill her and that'll add to the tragedy. The thing was though the ep with the Londes computer kinda already did a better job with her and Spike's subplot, with the AI Julia accusing him of just loving the idea of her, not who she really was. Which I guess in turn is suppose to set up for the betrayal down the line. But still it just comes off as throwing in a twist for the sake of it. I will give some credit, makes me curious how things will pan out past this point, just hope they work on the characterization next time. It's not a bad idea, but it needs the kinks worked out.
! And oh yeah the whole Radical Edward reveal, meh. I mean what were folks expecting? The girl has always been offbeat, this is in character for her. Sure, that camera work didn't do her reveal any favors nor did this coming after the Julia reveal. But as usual the Twitter crowd gotta blow the negativity out of proportion. So eh.
Also is it just me or is there waaay to much gender swaps of the characters from the anime to women in this version? Not a complaint but I couldn't help but be distracted by that. Odd.
Overall, it's fun, that's all I can really ask for. Certainly no replacement for the original, but Tomorrow Studios certainly had love for the project and, again, I appreciate them both trying to stay close to the original but do its own thing too. They didn't hit all the marks obviously and they could use some work but I can see that they are trying. Granted I understand why the die-hards hate it, but really that's not surprising when it comes to this stuff. Me, I'll be more then happy to catch next season when it comes.
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-Sigh- Of course: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/cowboy-bebop-canceled-netflix-1235060256/
Guess we leave on a cliffhanger then. Cue the "Well this doesn't bode well for One Piece" comments.
Get nuts or go crazy trying.
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Ooooof smoking that Firefly pack.
Edit: well shit the Firefly comparison was even more apt.
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I thought it did pretty decently, so that's surprising.
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Given Netflix’s propensity for cancelling shows relatively quickly not so much.
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I admit, I tried to give this show a chance. I watched up to episode 6, stopped cause yes that's 6 hours of streaming, and for the next few days it left a bad taste in my mouth. The flaws stand out too much and what's good doesn't really hold up. In episode two of the anime you get two different chase sequences centered around catching a dog. What do you get in the live action? Without giving much away, it's a bunch of guys talking in a swamp. Maybe I can't separate my memories of the anime from this show, but I can't help but compare the two.
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I don't think I've seen anyone praise this show. At best you usually get something like "it's okay" "it has its moments" and "it's better when you separate it from the original". Otherwise it's just near universal dislike and I don't see much genuine interest in a second season outside people who are openly dropping their standards. I don't know what incentive they'd have to do a second season so it makes sense to cancel.
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Shame it's canceled. I was curiouse about the new plot around Julia. It was good enough to me.
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I don't think I've seen anyone praise this show. At best you usually get something like "it's okay" "it has its moments" and "it's better when you separate it from the original". Otherwise it's just near universal dislike and I don't see much genuine interest in a second season outside people who are openly dropping their standards. I don't know what incentive they'd have to do a second season so it makes sense to cancel.
Yeah I know, I saw the reviews too. But cliffhanger plots with no resolutions drive me up a wall, mixed quality or no. I was legit wondering where this would go since it was outside the anime plotline now. Plus I was kinda hoping season two would've improved a bit. Like this season was a dry run and they were going to learn where to iron out things, The fact it was canned so fast just leaves a bad taste in my mouth too.
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It was a super expensive show that had a really bad response, so yeah, not a shock.
-"Well this doesn't bode well for One Piece" comments.
It's pretty fair to judge and have expectations set given its the same production company.
Visually it'll be fine, but the writing and capturing the actual spirit of the series is what we have to worry about now. Before my concerns were the other way around.
One season probably will be all we get of that as well unless it really knocks it out of the park and does something different and capturing… but that mean its going to need some top notch writers involved.
I don't think there's been any names in the announced writing staff that are known quantities. "Oh, well this writer worked on X". If the writing staff is just a bunch of amateur One Piece fans, or worse, non-fans, then who knows.
Like Bebop was fine whenever it was on the main trio. And then it became fucking awful any time it deviated and dove into the awful Vicious and Julia plot... and that was a LOT of screentime.
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After having read that interview about one of this show's actors say that they're "fixing/righting the wrongs of the original anime" - possibly the most disrespectful thing you could say about someone's work and a generally beloved series at that in the otaku circle - I couldn't be happier that this show got canceled. Good riddance.
"Yes, I'm only bones, but that's because I have an interest… in dieting."
-Gentleman Skeleton Brook
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Thank your respective dieties for this, I am not sure I could have survived LA Ed.
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After having read that interview about one of this show's actors say that they're "fixing/righting the wrongs of the original anime" - possibly the most disrespectful thing you could say about someone's work and a generally beloved series at that in the otaku circle - I couldn't be happier that this show got canceled. Good riddance.
The original was pretty wonky in its one example of trans representation, (props to having it at all but it was handled oddly) and in the zealous male gaze the hyper sexualized Faye was pretty ick. Those ARE in fact things that could use some adjusting and tweaking, and the live action served well in those respects.
It just failed when it came to actually telling a story or understanding what it was adapating.
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I feel like this is gon put some pressure on Steve Maeda.
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My wife and I had been watching and only have two episodes left and we’re pretty heartbroken over the cancellation. She was enjoying many aspects more than the anime, it just wasn’t her thing.
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After having read that interview about one of this show's actors say that they're "fixing/righting the wrongs of the original anime" - possibly the most disrespectful thing you could say about someone's work and a generally beloved series at that in the otaku circle - I couldn't be happier that this show got canceled. Good riddance.
When you remember that the show wasn’t as popular (apparently) in it’s home country on top of the fact the original anime did have legit flaws it wasn’t really disrespectful.
I liked the anime but I’m not going to pretend it holds the same importance to me as DragonBall Z, Gundam Wing, Yu-Gi-Oh, early Pokémon, Lupin etc.
While everybody was treating the live adaptation as somehow being disrespectful to the original or diminishing it. I’m over here laughing at all the projection and asshurt.
I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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When do we get the live action Yugioh adaption?
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Ah geez I just remembered these folks wanted to do a Yu Yu Hakusho adaptation too. Think this'll affect their chances?
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And this is just eerie timing: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2021-12-10/cowboy-bebop-and-tokyo-godfathers-writer-wolf-rain-creator-keiko-nobumoto-passes-away/.180500
Get nuts or go crazy trying.
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Ah geez I just remembered these folks wanted to do a Yu Yu Hakusho adaptation too. Think this'll affect their chances
Honestly?
No
Netflix is many things but they’re not Sony, Paramount, or Universal. Studios that tried something got their asses handed to them and killed it off before it could get worse.
When do we get the live action Yugioh adaption?
With Saint Seiya getting a live action adaptation who knows, it’s anything goes :ninja:
I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284
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Honestly?
No
Netflix is many things but they’re not Sony, Paramount, or Universal. Studios that tried something got their asses handed to them and killed it off before it could get worse.
Hey Universal is back with their Dark Universe with Renfield.
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When you remember that the show wasn’t as popular (apparently) in it’s home country
It was originally cancelled after like episode 10 and they had to paste on a quick fake ending. Yeah it didn't do great there. It resonated more in the US.
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It was originally cancelled after like episode 10 and they had to paste on a quick fake ending. Yeah it didn't do great there. It resonated more in the US.
Now see the cancellation part I legit didn’t know about but damn.
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As bad as the adaption is, I still felt like this was a shitty move by Netflix and also whoever wrote and is behind the adaption.
I genuinely feel bad for Ed's actresses and also Spike's. Cho felt like he gave his best. It's still a terrible adaption and there's a lot of bad decisions made in the adaption but to just drop it like that really makes me feel that all that "passion" and "love" for the original material they spewed was shallow marketing crap.
Not that it isn't a normal marketing move in the industry, idk it just makes me annoyed and leave a bad taste. Even more so knowing they are going to tackle One piece and might treat it as they did Bepop.
It really shows how out of touch people can be with what the audience want.
Netflix is really the go to for soulless adaptions huh. -
lol yeah, between the 2 (Bebop and One Piece) Bebop should have been the easiest to adapt but considering their failure well …...
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I found the original anime overrated except for the fantastic Yoko Kanno score and thus had no real interest in the adaptation but the cancellation is still a shame. It shows a huge lack of commitment. Projects like these will always be divisive no matter what. A 1:1 adaption is pointless since the original already exists and it might still end up disappointing while taking liberties can help refresh the material but might end up ruffling feathers anyway.
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It was originally cancelled after like episode 10 and they had to paste on a quick fake ending. Yeah it didn't do great there. It resonated more in the US.
Wait, are we talking about Cowboy Bebop or The Big O? The latter was a lot more popular in the US than in Japan to the extent that the second season was co-produced by Cartoon Network.
Bebop had an odd airing system where half of it debuted on a premium channel and half on TV Tokyo; TV Tokyo aired some sort of clip show special that it ended the show with but the whole series aired uncut on Wowow a few months later. I'm not sure what ratings it got on either but the movie was announced pretty much as soon as the show finished airing and was released to theaters before the dub even premiered on Adult Swim. So it must have been reasonably popular during its initial airings in Japan.
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The Japanese hated the Live Action but loved the original Bepop to dead.
Walk down shibuya and ask anyone and they'll at least have heard about Cowboy Bepop. -
In the interest of fairness having heard about it isn’t the same as “I really liked that show”.
And from what I’ve read reactions to cancellation of the live action is more or less the same as it is in the U.S.
Some told you so’s, some mehs, a few awwws.
