Like how Disney's Beauty and the Beast is an adaptation of the Beauty and the Beast fairy tale. Whereas Frozen is (very loosely) inspired by Snow Queen.
Cowboy Bebop
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[And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon] -
Or a better comparison…
Like how Disney's Beauty and the Beast is an adaptation of the Beauty and the Beast fairy tale.
Whereas the 1980's TV show with Ron Pearlman and Linda Hamilton in New York that was a detective mystery show... had the title. -
I just can't take a live-action Cowboy Bebop seriously. Call me a snob if you must, but there it is.
Whereas Frozen is (very loosely) inspired by Snow Queen.
VERY loosely. Other than a queen with snow/ice powers and the shard of ice that freezes a heart, it has nothing to do with the original. Which worked out, but part of me will always wish we had a version a little more faithful, because it's my favorite Hans Christian Anderson tale.
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It is a little weird to make an adaption of an adaption of two visual media. Like i get making a movie out of a book, you bring it from text to moving form, but making a live-action of an anime just means that you'll try to make the anime but with so many limitations. Like i get how it can be interesting on some level to see what comes out at the other end, but it isn't like i wonder if they'll surpass the original it is more like how would the 100 meter dash look if they made it into a three legged race
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Because people emote better than drawings?
Not saying every cartoon should have a live action but the fact that they re different forms of media is enough.
Why bother making movies out of stage plays? Or vice versa? Different strokes for different folks. -
It really is quite a step up in difficulty from bebop where people looks a little stylized but for the most part are just human looking, to OP where even the side-characters are eleven meter tall gonks with like a daisy growing out of the nose.
I mean what's easier to adapt to live action, a noir action SF resembling the likes of Blade Runner and 5th Element, or fantasy steampunk adventure which is a mix of Pirates of the Carribean, Island of Doctor Moreau and Bud Spencer and Terrence Hill buddy movies?
All I expect from OP show is that it makes OP anime of last couple of years look like masterpiece in comparison.
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the episodes being 1 hour long alone guarantees that the show will be trash
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Because people emote better than drawings?
Not saying every cartoon should have a live action but the fact that they re different forms of media is enough.
Why bother making movies out of stage plays? Or vice versa? Different strokes for different folks.See making a movie out of a play i can see a reason for. It gives it a permanence, it can add technical aspects that a stage doesn't allow for, it can provide an actual background instead of painted wood etc. It isn't neccesarily a more enjoyable experience but it is a technical improvement. Where as making a live-action version of an anime feels more like walking backwards. It's like making a book of a show or a movie, it just feels like a dead end to try and demake a more advanced concept.
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Because people emote better than drawings?
Not saying every cartoon should have a live action but the fact that they re different forms of media is enough.
Why bother making movies out of stage plays? Or vice versa? Different strokes for different folks.Not necessarily. You could make an argument that people emote better than letters in a book as well. But it's all in the perception. A mind fills in the blanks of drawn or written media, so a single manga image can be far far more impactful than an actor trying to bring out director's vision with varying success. There's no place for imagination there, you just watch what you're served.
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See making a movie out of a play i can see a reason for. It gives it a permanence, it can add technical aspects that a stage doesn't allow for, it can provide an actual background instead of painted wood etc. It isn't neccesarily a more enjoyable experience but it is a technical improvement. Where as making a live-action version of an anime feels more like walking backwards. It's like making a book of a show or a movie, it just feels like a dead end to try and demake a more advanced concept.
But you can, and dode, make books from tv shows and movies. They can end up giving different info, or the same one in different ways. The recent Once Upon a Time in hollywood novelization confirmed somethings that were only alluded in the movie.
And if permeance was the only issue there would be no remakes of any kind. Its just that at the end of the day, a remake.Bebop is popular it would be getting some sort of remake or reboot eventually, this versions they re trying the live action.
Not necessarily. You could make an argument that people emote better than letters in a book as well. But it's all in the perception. A mind fills in the blanks of drawn or written media, so a single manga image can be far far more impactful than an actor trying to bring out director's vision with varying success. There's no place for imagination there, you just watch what you're served.
See but those are two totally different things.
Reading is you doing the work filling the middles, watching a show is letting someone else do that work. A painting or even photo is full of emotion, watching micro expressions happen with movement is a different feeling.And the anime version for sure has great actors and is well designed, they bring the emotion, no doubt there. But live action is a different medium, it works differently.
My issue here was just that I found wolfwood being "weirded out", well, weird.
The reason to adapt the show this way is just… because. They can try to make it, they will -
I suppose because i can is as good an answer as any.
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It is a little weird to make an adaption of an adaption of two visual media. Like i get making a movie out of a book, you bring it from text to moving form, but making a live-action of an anime just means that you'll try to make the anime but with so many limitations. Like i get how it can be interesting on some level to see what comes out at the other end, but it isn't like i wonder if they'll surpass the original it is more like how would the 100 meter dash look if they made it into a three legged race
I mean each medium has its fan so its bringing it to another audience.
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I mean each medium has its fan so its bringing it to another audience.
I think my main issue was looking at it purely from a product point of view, when the main point was economical. Would it be horribly unfair to say that the original is like a delicious pastry, that you would have to go a bit out of your way to sample, while the live action is a bit like a twinkie from a convenience store. The quality isn't really comparable but easy access and convenience makes it much easier to sell in bulk
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I’m having a real conundrum here, I want to watch both wheel of time and cowboy bebop live action releases when they come out but I don’t think I have enough time to finish both the second book and rewatch cowboy bebop anime in time for Friday
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I’m having a real conundrum here, I want to watch both wheel of time and cowboy bebop live action releases when they come out but I don’t think I have enough time to finish both the second book and rewatch cowboy bebop anime in time for Friday
Focus on Wheel of Time. Early reviews on that are positive and its going to be an ongoing discussion for the next two months as new episodes release.
Bebop is by all accounts, not a trainwreck, but not really worth your time either. Its a curiosity that you can wait for.
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Focus on Wheel of Time. Early reviews on that are positive and its going to be an ongoing discussion for the next two months as new episodes release.
Bebop is by all accounts, not a trainwreck, but not really worth your time either. Its a curiosity that you can wait for.
Okay that’s what I’ll do then
Thanks!
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I've seen a lot of people comparing it with Scott Pilgram in terms of playing around with it's "anime" side like how Scott played with the "video game" thing, though without the bigger 4th wall breaking stuff.
I'm still gonna check it out, but if anything this is great for the OP show. It's gonna give Netflix a pretty good idea of what to do and what not to do.
I mean they botched Death Note which took many (bad) liberties in adapting. Its like they saw that, thought "Cowboy Bebop adaptation? Anime this by 10% more" ala Pootchie being Rastified.
Of all the Netflix Anime adaptions, the one I have the highest hope for is Yu Yu Hakusho. Doesn't have quite the level of insane powers like One Piece, making a person pass as an ogre really isn't hard to pull off now. Most of the villains are humans/humanoid, and most of the powers are pretty much CGI light effects. Put some decent hand to hand combat in there, and I think they could really pull it off.
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the episodes being 1 hour long alone guarantees that the show will be trash
Guess all those one hour shows like the Wire, Boardwalk. Empire, Every Star Trek, Law & Order were udder trash cause of their hour/not an hour run time.
I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284
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Guess all those one hour shows like the Wire, Boardwalk. Empire, Every Star Trek, Law & Order were udder trash cause of their hour/not an hour run time.
I imagine his point was more that bebop stories fitted the ghalf hour format well and the longer format will hurt it.
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I finished watching the first episode. And I really enjoyed it.
! It's a good adaptation of Asteroid Blues with some difference. I already like the chemistry of Spike, Jet, and Faye. The red eyes stuff is even more creepy in the live action version of Bebop.
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Watched the first ep. Yeah, this will be fine. It won't be great but it seems like it'll be fine. Out of context clips aren't doing it much justice. It's more than the sum of its parts?
Oh and
! I haven't seen it myself yet but Ed is definitely in the show. Clips are circulating.
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Watched a few eps and..yeah it's pretty much what I expected and wanted, something new but something familiar. There are some one for one shots here and there, the space shots are well done and the music of course is awesome with some new and old tracks. But some of the acting is a little stilted, like they don't know if they should be playing it straight or over the top. Cho does a good job with Spike though, not as slick as the anime but you cotton to him after some time. Kudos to Jet's actor though, he really nails the character . Faye's…eh, hit or miss. I wasn't a fan of the character in the anime, but here I'm just not really digging the performance. That's just me though. I do love the added content, the 50 minute format actually allows it to breath somewhat and give some more depth the characters. Not all of it works but I appreciate them trying.
So far it's fine and pretty fun. Like I said before it premiered, this isn't one for one of the anime, this is it's own thing and they're trying best they can to be faithful but also different. But it's certainly no DB Evolution or American Death Note either. You'll see some familar beats but, let just say, remixed in a way to try and put a new spin on things. If your fine with that within the first two eps, then keep onward. But if not then well, might not be for ya.
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Willing to give the show a try, but I have seen clips of the final episode. Ooh, I’m willing to bet fans of the show are NOT going to like choices that were made in the finale.
Originally Posted by Nightwing
Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?
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Willing to give the show a try, but I have seen clips of the final episode. Ooh, I’m willing to bet fans of the show are NOT going to like choices that were made in the finale.
Spill the beans, I already saw
! a clip of Ed introduction and it diminished even more my wish to watch it.
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Spill the beans, I already saw
! a clip of Ed introduction and it diminished even more my wish to watch it.
! Ed was the main one, but admittedly that was like a post credit stinger; I could see them hearing feedback and adjusting accordingly; imo they did a decent job incorporating Ed to live action, it’s just Ed’s not the one you should do a one to one translation of and the actress lacks the charisma of someone like Jim Carey to pull that off. Also, yeah, admittedly a rough introduction but that was just one minute of acting.
! The other one was Julia essentially turning on Spike. Don’t know the entire context but was spoiled about Julia being the one that shot Spike out of the church window instead of Vicious doing the job. -
Yeah I don't think that helps really. Guess I'll put it into the watch when you're incredibly bored during Christmas holidays.
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I'm really enjoying it so far, and I'm a die hard fan of the anime. It's great, give it a shot!
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Two episodes in and I'm digging it. But then I'm not a huge hardcore fan of the anime. I've seen it plenty, it aired on Cartoon Network endlessly, and it was always…fine.
I understand why some folks find it to be perfection, but I've never felt that strongly about it. I'm open to a new take doing different things.
The live action is getting the energy and the vibe and its working for me.
If they'd twisted the characters just a tiny bit and didn't give it this exact name, or if it was Tarantino doing this exact material with just a tiny bit more flair, people would be going crazy over this.
Do note that I'm the one person on the entire planet that actually wants a Princess Bride remake. Not because I think they'd do a better job than the original movie, they wouldn't, but because I actually read the book first and always got a very different vibe than what the movie did. (An adventure with some comedy, as opposed to a comedy with some adventure.) They could make the exact movie I wanted there and everyone else would hate it. But I'm open to new versions of old things.
They don't erase the original. If they're not better, they get forgotten. But sometimes, while not better, they're interesting and different for their own reasons.
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I'm also two episodes into the series as well. I'm really digging the show, and I don't mind some of the difference between the anime and the live action version.
! I forgot to mention this earlier when I was talking about episode 1. During the opening scene of episode 1, I really like the callback to Knockin on Heaven's Doors (a.k.a Cowboy Bebop movie). I'm happy that Punch and Judy (the hosts of Big Shots) made it into the new series as well the three old guys. The Big Shot scene in the 2nd episode made give me a good laugh.
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Only watched the first one last night and it's ok. It's a shame the show didn't get a bigger budget to polish it further. Action scenes are a mixed bag, with great parts on one side and awkward scene skips on other side.
Actually the only really bad part of the first episode was…
! Vicious. Come on guys, make it a little more convincing while not turning him into a cartoon villain.
But yeah, either a bigger budget or better budget management would have done the trick. I'll probably watch all of it, but not like I do when I discover an awesome show and want to watch just one more episode despite having to get up early.
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The editing during the action, the pseudo-Deadpoolesque dialogue, just… ugh. Some of the enviromental shots are good and I think the casting for Jet is actually alright btu the rest is pretty bad. Not Dragonball Evolution bad, but def. not anywhere close to good. Seems like Gunnm will stay alone on the summit of "good anime and manga adaptations"; then again - it is more of a hill than a mountain atm.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - _Sun Tzu, The Art Of War
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The editing during the action, the pseudo-Deadpoolesque dialogue, just… ugh. Some of the enviromental shots are good and I think the casting for Jet is actually alright btu the rest is pretty bad. Not Dragonball Evolution bad, but def. not anywhere close to good. Seems like Gunnm will stay alone on the summit of "good anime and manga adaptations"; then again - it is more of a hill than a mountain atm.
Kakegurui, Speed Racer, Japanese Death Note, the Kenshin movies, oldboy, My Love Story, Lone Wolf and Cub, Bunny Drop, 20th Century Boys, Himizu, Nana, Prison School, Detroit Metal City, Orange, GTO, and a shit ton of romantic series all converted to live action just fine.
Its not that anime can't be made into live action and be done well, its entirely about the approach.
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How worried should we be since this is the same producer and studio for One Piece?
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How worried should we be since this is the same producer and studio for One Piece?
"Yo ho ho he a took a bite of gum gum" - worried.
@Robby:Kakegurui, Speed Racer, Japanese Death Note, the Kenshin movies, oldboy, My Love Story, Lone Wolf and Cub, Bunny Drop, 20th Century Boys, Himizu, Nana, Prison School, Detroit Metal City, Orange, GTO, and a shit ton of romantic series all converted to live action just fine.
Its not that anime can't be made into live action and be done well, its entirely about the approach.
I meant Western adaptations, should have specified more. And out of those you mentioned I have only seen a few but I did not enjoy Death Note, DMC and Oldboy (both versions) either. The Korean movie was better than the Western one though. But I liked Hentai Kamen if that counts
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I think I'm liking the show more than I liked the anime.
…except for Vicious.
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How worried should we be since this is the same producer and studio for One Piece?
Worried? For me it is the opposite, I'm relieved.
Finished the cowboy bepop LA yesterday, enjoyed it a lot.
Now I'm rewatching the anime. -
Worried? For me it is the opposite, I'm relieved.
Finished the cowboy bepop LA yesterday, enjoyed it a lot.
Now I'm rewatching the anime.Really? Then I guess the reception here is a hell lot warmer than everywhere else. But if One Piece LA failed with the general public but long term one piece fans liked it, that's a huge positive for me.
Kakegurui, Speed Racer, Japanese Death Note, the Kenshin movies, oldboy, My Love Story, Lone Wolf and Cub, Bunny Drop, 20th Century Boys, Himizu, Nana, Prison School, Detroit Metal City, Orange, GTO, and a shit ton of romantic series all converted to live action just fine.
Its not that anime can't be made into live action and be done well, its entirely about the approach.
You are also picking out a selected few that is relatively simple to pull off.
That's why romantic series succeed as live actions, the success of it is alot more dependent on character writing than adapting an entire world and background characters on screen.
The Japanese can't do grand scale stuff. AoT flopped pretty badly. FMA was bad. Terra formers was hilarious. The good ones usually are more slice of life centric and is focused on character relationships. Kenshin which did really well knew how to pace itself and didn't have space ships and CG stuff besides a ship.
Then Bleach did very well but the first arc was nowhere close to how complex AoT was.
But Japanese Studios are overall much better at understanding the core of the material than the western counterpart. Western studios can't handle neither the relationships that make the series work or adapting a believable world that translates well.
We had James Cameron on Alita and it only did okayish.
The only way to adapt an adventure setting that is grand in scale and be somewhat believable is to span it across various movies and seasons with budget on levels of Star Wars or Thrones.
Golden standard for pacing will always be the Kenshin series but with the budget adjusted in accordance to whether your series take place across multiple planets or not.
There is already a point of reference with Kenshin, all of the Kenshin movies stuck to one core message and theme, but this importance is largely ignored because of writers insistence of appealing to the western audiences and to enjoy international fame, tweaking their approach and trying to satisfy everyone. Everyone and their mother always think they can do better without trying to understand what they are adapting. This is ego 101 and is probably necessary at times when you are a producer but is seriously getting annoying.This shit just repeats itself so many times that it is no surprise why they constantly flop.
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The only way to adapt an adventure setting that is grand in scale and be somewhat believable is to span it across various movies and seasons with budget on levels of Star Wars or Thrones.
Even Game Of Thrones ran into problems with it’s budget and then there’s the writing and the pacing.
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I'm not too worried. The studio that doing both Bebop and One Piece is also making Snowpiecer for TNT.
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3 episodes into the live action Cowboy Bebop. It's a mixed bag. Somethings are worse (Vicious) some are better (Spike and Jett's chemistry) and its very much a live action cartoon, but overall its working for me.
Not amazing, but not bad either. I'd love to see an original property take this same sort of style, other than a Tarantino or Wachowski film.
Do note that I'm not the biggest fan of the original though so barring a DBE or Last Airbender trainwreck I was probably always going to be okay with it, and wasn't going to fall in love no matter what, so I'm not super invested either way..
But thus far its not sacrilege or horrific as the twitters would have you believe.
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This post is deleted!
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Top 3 in the US on Netflix right now.
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Top 3 in the US on Netflix right now. [qimg]https://imgur.com/WccsY2j[/qimg][qimg]https://imgur.com/WccsY2j[/qimg][qimg]https://imgur.com/WccsY2j[/qimg]
I guess now we know the One Piece live action show will make money.
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Finished the new Cowboy Bebop. It was at its best when it wasn't trying to be the original. Some parts where they did it shot for shot or line for line was just… weird.
One area where it shined over the original was the chemistry between Spike, Jett, and Faye, I actually felt like they were friends with real comradery, in a way that never came across in the original.
The visuals were fine. I liked the colors and the scenery and the look of the tech. If they'd been a little less adamant about Spike keeping his outfit anime authentic it would have worked better. More casual "i slept in this for two days" and less "I spent two hours making this look like I'm being casual." open it up more, let the collar just flop instead of being starched. But otherwise Jett looked great and Faye was fine.
Every scene with Vicious and Julia was bad. Vicious was horribly cast and didn't seem credible at all, and their scenes just slowed down the story every time it cut away. The anime did all that same stuff off camera and that worked better.
The episode 9 flashback was completely unneeded. That flashback works better in half second glimpses where you piece it together. being told flat out in detail what happened just makes it... boring.
That final scene with THAT character... well that was obviously shot in like 20 minutes on the last day of filming with a bad director doing pickups who for some reason thought a fish eye lens would be a good idea, hopefully they can improve that performance by season 2. Otherwise they only have the most surface level understanding of the character and have them all wrong.
I tried to treat it as its own thing going in its own direction and for the first few episodes I could do that, but but the end it's impossible to not compare it to the original, and it comes up lesser. It's not nearly as subtle or nuanced and it misses a lot of the themes. I would have been 100% okay with it just turning into a live action cartoon and just having FUN with it, and it did decently there! But once it tried to summon the same drama and pathos of the original it started falling very short.
Its not a complete failure, but its not really a total success either. If it was its own original thing I might like it more? The acting and passion were there and it shows through. Hopefully season 2 can find its own voice and become something more interesting.
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Were they even intended to be "friends" in the anime?
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I'd say that Jet and Spike were the most friendly, but the lot of them seemed to be more like partners of convenience for the most part of the show. Or some similar grey area betwenn true companions and co-workers.
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The main motif was that at the very end of the series they realized they were a found family… when it was too late and it was all falling apart... and that's important but...
I never felt or understood why these people were working together, let alone living together. Just a little bit more laughing together or actually having a good time occasionally would have gone a long way instead of being morose and downbeat and angry at each other all the time.
But that's probably why the original never really truly clicked with me, but I love the hell out of Lupin, and generally liked Trigun and Outlaw Star more. Not as deep but I liked them better. They had more fun and liked each other.
I can admit CB is a near flawless masterpiece, and still better than the live action, but it still never fully worked for me.
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I don't see why everyone hates Vicious, the original one was a boring character with a bird that would have looked ridiculous in live action.
Wash your hands.
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I haven't watched the live-action so I'm just using impressions, but a boring character with little screentime is generally better than a lame character with a lot more screentime.
