@IT'S:
Why would the Straw Hats fight the BC in this arc? THEY'RE TOO DAMN TIRED!!
They don't seem to have much of a choice.
@IT'S:
Why would the Straw Hats fight the BC in this arc? THEY'RE TOO DAMN TIRED!!
They don't seem to have much of a choice.
Do you think we will see another Sogeking video when Toei reaches this Chapter? After all, Zoro does ask if the singing is necessary, and I think it would be appropriate.
Do you think we will see another Sogeking video when Toei reaches this Chapter? After all, Zoro does ask if the singing is necessary, and I think it would be appropriate.
it would seriously tear apart the feel of the moment, so yeah, we probably will :o(
Well, I would hope that they would not do that…and just have him actually singing at the part where Zoro says that, but who knows.
Edit the point i'm trying to make is that the VA's are probably in the same ball park as Aokijii 20 years ago, where as Aokiji (right now) has most definately surpassed that level of ability several times over.
Match set. Notice how Aokiji dodged Saul's punch in Ohara, rather than going into ice form.
Edit the point i'm trying to make is that the VA's are probably in the same ball park as Aokijii 20 years ago, where as Aokiji (right now) has most definately surpassed that level of ability several times over.
Maybe, but why are we assuming that all the VAs have the same level of strength? I mean, it's clear that Saul and Aokiji were at different levels of strength at the time. Why should those 5 be at Ao kiji level at the time and not Sauls level? And why should they even be that high? We don't know if Saul was special for a VA or normal, or the requirements to be a vice admiral.
I just think that the Strawhats will beat the Buster Call somehow, I mean if they don't then they leave Enies Lobby in partial defeat–and Oda likes to end his arcs in "total victory." That's why no ones dies, it would dampen the SHs victory.
Yeah, I know they just want to get Robin, but if they are chased (and why would it chase them? It's only their to destroy the island!) then it means a lack of security to Robin. And frankly, if the SHs avoid the Buster Call this time, odds are they'll never meet it again.
She won't be completely free until one of the nightmares from her past is gone. Then, after that she'll get the same level of faith that Nami has know, even to the point that she'll believe that Luffy can beat Aokiji( whenever that may be, in the future).
Also, the fact that we haven't been introduced to those 5 VAs suggest that they arent important characters. The Buster Call is like 5 minutes from the island which means that the VAs have long since boarded. Wouldn't it be better to establish the VAs threat if we saw these guys board their ships? No, right now the problem is that the Buster Call is coming, not the VAs.
It's funny how people underestimate the VA's , cp9 stronger than VA ? what's next ? Coby stronger than whitebeard ?
Seriously do you realize the gap between a colonel and a VA ?
The high ranked marines the strawhat have fought were all colonels ( or captain or whatever you call them depending on translation and marine/army ranking of each country ) , smoker is beyond colonel level , it has been said in a sbs ( i don't remember which ) that smoker is ranked colonel only because he doesn't always follow the governement 's orders , if it wasn't for that then his rank would be higher .
And cp9 is supposed to be stronger than VA ? Among the cp9 , only lucci was incredibly strong , so what ? because lucci is strong then all the cp9 members are stronger than the likes of smoker , aokiji , saul ,sakazuki , sengoku etc…
BC has been destroyed by a VA , VA saul has been defeated by VA kuzan but when you really look at it it was a VA matter , why the so called powerful cp9 doesn't try to fight Saul ? The 2 former cp9 who were with spandain didn't look like weaklings to me but still they didn't fight .
VAs are fighter of another level , in the flashback we have seen what kind of damage a VA can do . In the marine VA is only 1 RANK BELOW admiral .
The 3 admiral are the strongest so VA are piece of shit ?
Luffy is the strongest strawhat so zorro , sanji and soon franky are a bunch of walking shit and pitiful weaklings ?
CP9 are not the only strong officers the governement have to offer , for all we know even cp8 can be as strong as cp9 because it has been stated nowhere that cipherpols are ranked like marines ( from the bottom to the top .)
Sorry for the rant but i can't believe that some people underestimate people who are clearly on an another level than the marines the strawhat have the habit to fight just because they have defeated ZOOP9 .
Let's assume the vice admirals are around Smoker's level.
Smoker is on Ace's level.
Could they defeat five people on Smoker's level while being bombarded with giant cannons and fighting thousands of marines right after fighting the cp9?
Well, my issue is that we've had no clues to the strength of the VAs yet. I mean, sure Saul and Aokiji were strong, but Ao was a future Admiral, meanwhile….are the 5 VAs coming all giants? That seems unlikely.
The real deterrent is that we haven't been introduced to them yet. Garp and Saul seemed strong because they got their time to in the spotlight. These VAs are right now just people with no face and a rank. Rank alone doesn't determine strength, this series gives us examples first.
Of course, it's also possible that these guys are strong, but have skills that are useless to defend against a long range attack that maybe Usopp could deliver.
Why does everyone assume that all the VAs have the same level of power? Maybe some of them just met the "minimum requirements" to be a VA. Aokiji is extraordinary, the Admiral rank may be on a whole other level then the VA rank. There are 3 admirals and maybe 20 VAs, that says that the Admirals are more special.
Also, if the SHs don't beat the Buster Call now, odds are they'll never see it again. It's only their to destroy the island, not the SHs themselves. Plus it's a threat introduced in this arc and often mentioned in this arc. It seems like it belongs in this arc alone, it's not like the Buster Call is a character with development. If it appears in a future arc then it will be the same thing and the same threat.
It's likely that they'll see the buster call again in Water 7, when all is said and done.
With the help of the shipwrights there, I think they'd have a much more reasonable chance of defeating the buster call.
I imagine that the "minimum requirements" for being a vice admiral are extremely high. We haven't been introduced to some of the shichibukai, why do we assume they are stronger than the ones we have been introduced to? By your logic, we should be assuming that maybe they just have the "minimum requirements."
The other two admirals, we only know 'of' them, and nothing about them, maybe they just meet the "minimum requirements" of being an admiral, and aren't strong….
We've been introduced to the old lady vice admiral, who was literally able to tell Don Flamingo to behave, and he actually listened. We've been introduced to Garp, who slept through a direct hit by axe hand morgan, and woke up without injury, I think we've been introduced to someone named John Giant but I don't remember. We have literally only seen Vice Admirals as really, really strong people, and so the implication is that all of them are strong.
Like I said, they are probably all at least on Smoker's level.
It's likely that they'll see the buster call again in Water 7, when all is said and done.
With the help of the shipwrights there, I think they'd have a much more reasonable chance of defeating the buster call.
There's no way the Marine would destroy the island they get their ships from. Also they could perfectly lure the world's people into thinking a small island like Ohara was a criminal nest, and Enies Lobby is a WG possession so they do whatever they want with it, but W7, which is apparently one of the most important places of the Grand Line? Not a chance, it'd be a political suicide.
The other two admirals, we only know 'of' them, and nothing about them, maybe they just meet the "minimum requirements" of being an admiral, and aren't strong….
We know the 3 Admirals, and not only Aokiji, are the Greatest Powers of the WG. That speaks volume.
We've been introduced to the old lady vice admiral, who was literally able to tell Don Flamingo to behave, and he actually listened.
He didn' care. He actually stopped the moment Fleet Admiral Sengoku entered the room.
We have literally only seen Vice Admirals as really, really strong people, and so the implication is that all of them are strong.
Actually Tsuru, but also Comil didn't exactly strike me as being strong. It's all subjective of course, but there's really not much to judge VAs level as of now.
I believe the Buster Call will be destroyed by the end of the current mega-arc, but before the end of Enies Lobby? It just seems ludicrous, even as One Piece goes.
It's likely that they'll see the buster call again in Water 7, when all is said and done.
With the help of the shipwrights there, I think they'd have a much more reasonable chance of defeating the buster call.
That's possible.
I imagine that the "minimum requirements" for being a vice admiral are extremely high. We haven't been introduced to some of the shichibukai, why do we assume they are stronger than the ones we have been introduced to? By your logic, we should be assuming that maybe they just have the "minimum requirements."
Because it's been established that Crocodile is the weakest Shichibukai. I'm saying that these VAs might be beatable because they have no character development.
The other two admirals, we only know 'of' them, and nothing about them, maybe they just meet the "minimum requirements" of being an admiral, and aren't strong….
Well…they may be weaker then Aokiji. That yellow guy's shadow looked pretty goofy.
We've been introduced to the old lady vice admiral, who was literally able to tell Don Flamingo to behave, and he actually listened.
I think Don was going to stop anyway. Like he'd kill two guys in the marine headquarters.
We've been introduced to Garp, who slept through a direct hit by axe hand morgan, and woke up without injury, I think we've been introduced to someone named John Giant but I don't remember. We have literally only seen Vice Admirals as really, really strong people, and so the implication is that all of them are strong.
Well, even if that is true, what if all of these VAs have superstrength like Garp? They couldn't defend againt a long range attack unless it was aimed directly at them.
More pro-Usopp stuff, but VAs may have abilities that are incompatable to defend against long range attacks. Regardless of what you think of Usopp, he at least has good aim and range.
Like I said, they are probably all at least on Smoker's level.
I know that Smoker is physically strong, but I have to say that these VAs probably aren't Logias.
Ultimately though, I just don't want to see the SHs end this arc on a loss. I mean, what kind of ending would it be if it's like:
Luffy: Okay we got Robin back, now let's get the hell out of here before the Buster call kicks our ass!
It just seems lame and maybe even out of character.
And again, the Luffy and Lucci fight probably won't end before the BC. They said that it would arrive in 10 minutes several chapters ago.
It isn't. That's the 3 Admirals.
I don't know where you got that from, but I highly doubt they're on the same level. And Aokiji is a man, while BC is a fleet of ship. In one case, Usopp showed he couldn't fight one on one, so we can assume his big part on that arc will be to fight against ships, which is what gunners are supposed to do.
Nothing has implied that Aokiji's strength has changed over 20 years. Even if, he was murderously strong back then. And yet, he was a part of the Buster Call. For all his power, he still can't cause the mass destruction that fleet can.
He'd have to sink multiple ships in one shot I guess. I can understand some people find it hard to swallow, I'm saying why the hell not, especially as he showed he was able of such a feat back in Alabasta against a supposed "elite" fleet of the Marine, with a conventionnal cannon.
He was able to take out two ships, yeah. But I'd like to think the BC would put up more resistance, especially since it's not exactly up against a cannon. From the Skypiean dials, we've seen nothing that could take out a ship save Reject, and that wouldn't work well for a few reasons.
If the BC ships start firing at EL without knowing where the first attack came from exactly, it's possible they miss him and let him have another shot which'd sink the remaining ships.
True enough.
As for your points about the VAs I don't see why you keep on mentionning them, again if the ships they're on are sunk in the middle of the Calm Belt-like sea they're coming from, what are they gonna do? Swim all the way to the Bridge of Hesitation? I have no doubts they are great athletes, but that should give plenty of times to the Strawhats to get the hell out of here, especially if they have to deal with the Sea Kings behind the Door of Justice.
No one with a great amount of power has buckled under his slingshot. He may not have shown his best, but if he doesn't give an indication that he could beat one really strong person, I wouldn't really think he could handicap five on battleships.
No one with a great amount of power has buckled under his slingshot. He may not have shown his best, but if he doesn't give an indication that he could beat one really strong person, I wouldn't really think he could handicap five on battleships.
I know that they are now weak by comparison, but the Mr.4 pair aren't strong? Don't do anything for awhile and everyone forgets your accomplishments…:getlost:
Fighting ships and strong people are two different things. These ships, for example, can't use soru, so it's not like they have super dodging.
It's very concievable that Usopp could shoot the BC ships from a distance, possibly in the cannon's themselves, igniting the gunpowder. Usopp's strengths are accuracy and range.
Meanwhile, if Usopp needs to block the cannonfire he could use the impact and maybe flame dial to absorb the damage. And he may be to far away to get hit anyway, the Buster Call seems to need to get close to do good damage.
Meanwhile, unless the VAs are snipers, logias, or flying zoans, they become a non-issue. Aokiji could get to Saul by walking on ice.
Really, it seems very possible that Usopp is the one with the skills to forfill the "role" of stopping the Buster Call. Fighting a wolf-man with roushiki and ships with high-firepower are different things, or even fighting the Franky family, the Buster Call can't surround Usopp and pull his slingshot out of his hand.
I agree with whoever said it would be anti-climactic to have the Strawhats run away from the Buster Call. It's been a big thing this arc, and it's not like Hawk Eyes or Smoker, who just popped in to show their power. It's going to attack Enies Lobby, and there are a lot of people there. Sure, the Straw Hats might escape, but they'd be leaving people behind to die. That's not something that I think the Strawhats would do. Especially not Luffy and Franky. Luffy is too big-headed, and Franky has his family there. Also, the CP9 are unconcious around the place. If the island goes, so will they. And I don't see them all dying such a horrible death.
I know that they are now weak by comparison
There ya go. Mentioning Arlong and the like just doesn't make for a good comparision.
Fighting ships and strong people are two different things. These ships, for example, can't use soru, so it's not like they have super dodging.
It's very concievable that Usopp could shoot the BC ships from a distance, possibly in the cannon's themselves, igniting the gunpowder. Usopp's strengths are accuracy and range.
But being totally outnumbered would really make it difficult to exploit weakness. Jamming one ship opens you up for the fire of nine others.
Meanwhile, if Usopp needs to block the cannonfire he could use the impact and maybe flame dial to absorb the damage. And he may be to far away to get hit anyway, the Buster Call seems to need to get close to do good damage.
Its target is the entire island, blocking and hiding are close to impossible. And speaking of up close, that's the only way his dials would be useful in offense anyway. Besides the fire, but it really isn't all THAT dangerous.
Meanwhile, unless the VAs are snipers, logias, or flying zoans, they become a non-issue. Aokiji could get to Saul by walking on ice.
I don't think you'd have to be Mihawk in order to deflect an attack with accuracy.
Really, it seems very possible that Usopp is the one with the skills to forfill the "role" of stopping the Buster Call. Fighting a wolf-man with roushiki and ships with high-firepower are different things, or even fighting the Franky family, the Buster Call can't surround Usopp and pull his slingshot out of his hand.
If Spandam, the CP9 director, is any indication, the BC is more dangerous than all six Rokushiki masters. It may not actually "fight" him like they would, but the destructive power is something that no one at all has shown any confidence against.
Maybe it's me but by reading your post onemoment it feels like you wish that the VA will be weaker than the cp9 in term of strength .
Defeating the BC is not so easy , escaping it for me is the same as cure robin's mental scar because this time she won't be alone but with all her friends and the only ones who would be destroy would be those who were so interested in using this thing .
But when it comes to fight i don't think that VAs are weak , it's possible that they won't be like mr ICEMAN but it doesn't mean they would be some weak fools who would be smashed by the strawhat without efforts .
If you think about it , it's the first time since the beginning of one piece that the strawhat would face some VAs and even the first time that the VAs are about to make a move in the present time .
I don't expect them to be godlike but i don't expect them to be nezumi like either .
I not even sure if they would fight but they are high officers and that 's a fact .
Ohara´s Buster Call could have failed without Kuzan/Aokiji help against Saulo, this is a fact.
There ya go. Mentioning Arlong and the like just doesn't make for a good comparision.
Dammit, you missed every point I'm trying to make. I'm saying strong people have gone down to Usopp before, and if Usopp has a future, then strong people will too.
But being totally outnumbered would really make it difficult to exploit weakness. Jamming one ship opens you up for the fire of nine others.
Would it? What if Usopp destroys two ships at once again from a great distance? If Ohara is any indication then the Buster Call has a limited range, while Usopp may have a great range.
Its target is the entire island, blocking and hiding are close to impossible. And speaking of up close, that's the only way his dials would be useful in offense anyway. Besides the fire, but it really isn't all THAT dangerous.
Well, it can't destroy the whole island at once. Usopp could hide or dodge from the cannonfire directed at him. And if Usopp snipes well enough, the Buster Call may not be able to find him and react in time anyway.
I don't think you'd have to be Mihawk in order to deflect an atatck with accuracy.
Even if the shoots aren't fired at you? Mihawk deflected an attack aimed at his face. The VAs would have to block shots that are possibly aimed at the bottom of their ships. Unless they can teleport, it's out of their reach.
Like I said, the VAs involvement relies on their abilities. Just being strong isn't enough.
If Spandam, the CP9 director, is any indication, the BC is more dangerous than all six Rokushiki masters. It may not actually "fight" him like they would, but the destructive power is something that no one at all has shown any confidence against.
That's not my point at all! The Buster Call most likely has more destructive power then the CP9, but Usopp is probably the one best suited to fight the Buster Call. Unlike Jyabura, a BC ship can't dodge with soru.
It's not that the Buster call is stronger or weaker then a CP9, its that they are entirely different opponents. Unlike Jyabura, Usopp may have the weapons to fight this one.
He has the means to attack, the means to defend, and unlike beating Jyabura, destroying the Buster Call would be a major example to something that only "Usopp could do," hence forfilling what Sanji said.
To defeat those ships, you need range and firepower. We know Usopp has the range, but does he have the firepower? Who knows.
Nothing has implied that Aokiji's strength has changed over 20 years. Even if, he was murderously strong back then. And yet, he was a part of the Buster Call. For all his power, he still can't cause the mass destruction that fleet can.
I'd say Aokiji is more than able to do as much if not more damage than the BC. We're talking about a guy who can freeze the ocean on great distances for days. I doubt many people would survive if he just froze an island.
He was able to take out two ships, yeah. But I'd like to think the BC would put up more resistance, especially since it's not exactly up against a cannon. From the Skypiean dials, we've seen nothing that could take out a ship save Reject, and that wouldn't work well for a few reasons.
Two words: Burn Bazooka.
No one with a great amount of power has buckled under his slingshot. He may not have shown his best, but if he doesn't give an indication that he could beat one really strong person, I wouldn't really think he could handicap five on battleships.
As I said, he must have build Kabuto for something. If his "upgrade" this arc is some kind of boshi he'd use to defeat Spandam, it'd be… You know Foxy, when he's dropping to his knees everytime Luffy mocks him? That'd be the feeling I'd have with the way Usopp has been portrayed during this saga.
In a futile attempt to end this debate on whether or not the Buster Call will be defeated here at Enies Lobby, I will put forth these facts. Some of which have been mentioned:
1. The Buster Call is used to destroy a single target, being the island it was called to.
2. The Buster Call can only be initiated by special people. Fleet Admiral, and the 3 Admirals.
3. Spandam was given special permission from Aokiji to initiate the Buster Call once.
From these three facts, I have come to the conclusion that the Buster Call must be defeated at Enies Lobby if it is going to be defeated at all, for the following reasons. We know that the Buster Call is targeting Enies Lobby at this moment, so once the island is destroyed, the mission will be complete. The ships will not move on to another island with the purpose of a Buster Call. However if deemed necessary by one of the VA's, one or two of the ships might pursue random ships that try to leave the island. But at this point, it's no longer a Buster Call. Since Spandam used his privelage to initiate Buster Call already, he can't be the one to initiate it on any island the SH's run to, which leaves only the Admirals and Sengoku who seem far away from the action.
I guess to sum things up, it seems unlikely for another Buster Call to be initiated on another island, especially since Spandam can't anymore. Because of this, if the Straw Hats are going to defeat the Buster Call, they must do it here since they probably won't ever see it again.
Now for as to exactly how it could happen, I have no idea. Personally it seems fantastic (in the unbelievable way) for Usopp to be able to do it on his own, but if Oda can find a way to make it dramatic, go for him.
He was able to take out two ships, yeah. But I'd like to think the BC would put up more resistance, especially since it's not exactly up against a cannon. From the Skypiean dials, we've seen nothing that could take out a ship save Reject, and that wouldn't work well for a few reasons.
If he uses impact dials to propel projectiles, say the size of a baseball, shot through his Kabuto then I could definitely see Kabuto destroying ships. If you've seen the G8 arc, recall how just 1 impact dial was enough to propel the entire Going Merry into the air - yeah I know G8 was filler, but it gives you an idea of the power behind impact dials. Imagine how fast a projectile pushed by one of these impact dials would travel. Now imagine how fast a projectile would be when pushed by six of these impact dials, radially arranged around a hoop. See my illustration below (blue ellipses = impact dials, black ball = projectile being shot through the hoop, green = hoop, which would be snapped-onto Kabuto somehow, i.e. it's an add-on). You'd potentially have a miniature M1A1 Abrams tank cannon (maybe even more powerful than that) in the palm of your hands.
http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=illuszv5.jpg
The faster a projectile travels, the more kinetic energy it has, thus the more 'explosive' it is. That's the physics behind tank fire. Tank fire is extremely 'explosive', not because the ammo is explosive, but because the projectiles fired are extremely fast. Yeah I know I'm getting a bit technical here, but that sort of physics appears to be at work in One Piece (also in many other Shonen manga as well). How else do you explain exploding cannonballs?
Now you may ask if Usopp had such power, why didn't he use it against Jyabura? The reason is the kickback produced from such a weapon. One impact dial was able to do a number on Usopp's arm. Imagine what six of these, all activated simultaneously, would do to Usopp. Kabuto would probably need to be planted in place somehow to reduce the danger to Usopp's arm when using such a weapon.
Ultimately though, I just don't want to see the SHs end this arc on a loss. I mean, what kind of ending would it be if it's like:
Luffy: Okay we got Robin back, now let's get the hell out of here before the Buster call kicks our ass!
It just seems lame and maybe even out of character.
And again, the Luffy and Lucci fight probably won't end before the BC. They said that it would arrive in 10 minutes several chapters ago.
it's not a matter of get out of there before they get there arses kicked, it's about making sure no one else is needlessly endangered, they went to EL in order to get Robin back not to destroy EL or take on the BC, once they have Robin they really don't need to fight, a good captain would run and fight another day, because considering how many ranks below VA a Captain is, if they are all of Smoker's/Hina's strength, it's gonna be FAR from a walk in the park. This arc isn't about the strength the mugiwara's hold, it's about the will they have. this was clearly demonstrated with the fact they were defeated so easily as W7 and reserved the stakes in the TOJ. To take on and defeat the worlds most feared Weapon's before
and more is just insane, to become a priority enemy of the world government at this stage would just be insane, especially when you consider that not even Newgate or Shanks are considered such, i just can't see it. they'll run away and that way everyone says face. it's not ending an arc on a loss, the victory is Robin's safety and presence.
Well if everybody has a particular opponent, and Spandam is Ussop's, then wouldn't it be something if escaping/evading/defeating BC represented the "boss" opponent for the Straw Hat's new ship?
The Going Merry is still a hole in the crew that has yet to be filled afterall, and what better trial by fire to pit it's succeessor against than the most dreaded representation of naval power?
And Ussopp may not be able to hinder the BC with Kabuto, but if the new ship has some serious firepower, combined with Ussopp's accuracy on the cannons, then we may be in some serious business.
….i have no doubt that usopp is strong and a great fighter but honestly if usopp takes down 10 fully armed battleships and 5 of the WGs second highest ranked soldiers by himself with his slingshot ill eat my hat:silly:
it's not a matter of get out of there before they get there arses kicked, it's about making sure no one else is needlessly endangered, they went to EL in order to get Robin back not to destroy EL or take on the BC, once they have Robin they really don't need to fight, a good captain would run and fight another day, because considering how many ranks below VA a Captain is, if they are all of Smoker's/Hina's strength, it's gonna be FAR from a walk in the park. This arc isn't about the strength the mugiwara's hold, it's about the will they have. this was clearly demonstrated with the fact they were defeated so easily as W7 and reserved the stakes in the TOJ. To take on and defeat the worlds most feared Weapon's before.
This is all assuming they can run away. They've got no boat. They've got the waterfall of death behind them and the Buster Call in front of them. I don't think they have any choice but to fight.
and more is just insane, to become a priority enemy of the world government at this stage would just be insane, especially when you consider that not even Newgate or Shanks are considered such, i just can't see it. they'll run away and that way everyone says face. it's not ending an arc on a loss, the victory is Robin's safety and presence.
They're already public enemy number one. They've 'sacked' the front door of the WG, Eneas Lobby, something that's never been done since the WG came into existence. They've declared war on the WG by burning the flag. Finally, they've rescued the 'most dangerous' woman in the world, a woman who could bring down the WG. I'd say these acts alone make the mugiwaras the biggest threat the WG has ever faced, and the WG's highest priority. Destroying the BC wouldn't really change anything, except maybe the WG's attitude towards the mugiwaras strength. If the mugiwaras defeat the BC then they become a force to be reckoned with, one that shouldn't be taken lightly. The WG will twice before trying to engage the mugiwaras with any of their forces. I think I would prefer it that way. After all, it would get kind of tedious to see the mugiwaras engaging WG forces anywhere and everywhere they go.
it's not a matter of get out of there before they get there arses kicked, it's about making sure no one else is needlessly endangered, they went to EL in order to get Robin back not to destroy EL or take on the BC, once they have Robin they really don't need to fight, a good captain would run and fight another day, because considering how many ranks below VA a Captain is, if they are all of Smoker's/Hina's strength, it's gonna be FAR from a walk in the park. This arc isn't about the strength the mugiwara's hold, it's about the will they have. this was clearly demonstrated with the fact they were defeated so easily as W7 and reserved the stakes in the TOJ. To take on and defeat the worlds most feared Weapon's before
- they've re-met shanks
- re-met the blackbeard crew
- inducted franky
- met more shichibuiki
- established themselves as great pirates
- crossed the redline
- become an issue for the world government
and more is just insane, to become a priority enemy of the world government at this stage would just be insane, especially when you consider that not even Newgate or Shanks are considered such, i just can't see it. they'll run away and that way everyone says face. it's not ending an arc on a loss, the victory is Robin's safety and presence.
Well, a problem is that if they don't fight the BC now, odds are that they'll never see it again. It seems like the Buster Call is a threat that should only stay in this arc. I mean it's the main villian of Robin's past, like Arlong's crew to Nami (not a power comparison). Unchipu said it best:
In a futile attempt to end this debate on whether or not the Buster Call will be defeated here at Enies Lobby, I will put forth these facts. Some of which have been mentioned:
1. The Buster Call is used to destroy a single target, being the island it was called to.
2. The Buster Call can only be initiated by special people. Fleet Admiral, and the 3 Admirals.
3. Spandam was given special permission from Aokiji to initiate the Buster Call once.From these three facts, I have come to the conclusion that the Buster Call must be defeated at Enies Lobby if it is going to be defeated at all, for the following reasons. We know that the Buster Call is targeting Enies Lobby at this moment, so once the island is destroyed, the mission will be complete. The ships will not move on to another island with the purpose of a Buster Call. However if deemed necessary by one of the VA's, one or two of the ships might pursue random ships that try to leave the island. But at this point, it's no longer a Buster Call. Since Spandam used his privelage to initiate Buster Call already, he can't be the one to initiate it on any island the SH's run to, which leaves only the Admirals and Sengoku who seem far away from the action.
I guess to sum things up, it seems unlikely for another Buster Call to be initiated on another island, especially since Spandam can't anymore. Because of this, if the Straw Hats are going to defeat the Buster Call, they must do it here since they probably won't ever see it again.
Now for as to exactly how it could happen, I have no idea. Personally it seems fantastic (in the unbelievable way) for Usopp to be able to do it on his own, but if Oda can find a way to make it dramatic, go for him.
Oh yeah, and people keep talking about how fighting the BC would involve fighting the VC, and comparing it to Hina's black cage squad. Well, remember how the SH were losing because their hand-to-hand abilities were useless in a ship fight(until Luffy chucked a bunch of spears at them…) ? The VC may very well be in the same position. Regardless of their strength the may not have the reach to defend their ships from everything.
Question:
What kind of ships come during a buster call?
Answer:
Warships.
Question:
Are warships designed for ranged naval battle, which (other than when being boarded, which usually implies that the ship LOST the ranged battle already) is almost exclusively long range and involving constant barrages of cannon fire?
Answer:
Yes.
I don't really understand how the buster call fleet would be at a disadvantage in a ranged fight, considering that that is what a warship is specifically designed to excel at.
The only way that the strawhats can beat the buster call on ennies lobby is if they convince the marines already on the island that they've been betrayed (which wouldn't be a lie, since they will probably kill the marines), etc, and fight against the buster call together.
Which, considering how Usopp recruited the giants, could possibly happen. So I won't rule that out.
Though I will say that it would be really irresponsible for the strawhats to decide that looking cool is better than saving Chopper's life.
Actually, now that I take into account that the buster call will kill everyone on the island, I no longer like the idea of the strawhats running away. If JUST the strawhats would be harmed by the buster call and they escaped, no biggie, but if they run and a bunch of people die, the strawhats should have tried to do something.
onemoment, you keep saying you hope the BC doesn't include god-like power
due to lack of character development.
However you keep bringing up Ussop here and there..
So I'm reading: "I hope the BC is weaker than CP9 because Ussop can't take on CP9, thus he needs a weak enemy to take on that the SH could normally take on, but due to range can't, in order to prove himself."
I find that to be more demeaning towards Ussop rather than a hopeful wish to show off his power. So Ussop isn't strong enough to take on Godlike BC? He needs some "minimum requirements" VA's in order to defeat them?
I'm sorry if I offend you, but you're offending Ussop in between the lines, despite clearly being a fan of his.
There is nothing wrong with having the SH protect Ussop from the VA's on the land while he and Franky and the Franky family shoot at the BC ships, it still establishes his sniper prowess, but shows the importance of a team, nakama, rather than just one piece of the team taking down an entire fleet of ships because the rest of the team just couldn't reach the ships/has already done something important.
Well, a problem is that if they don't fight the BC now, odds are that they'll never see it again. It seems like the Buster Call is a threat that should only stay in this arc. I mean it's the main villian of Robin's past, like Arlong's crew to Nami (not a power comparison).
I feel that's where you're wrong, not only are they after the stuff that got the Oharian's BC'd but they're very likely to piss of the Gorusei in a multitude of ways before the end of the story. they've got all the time in the world to face it and it would make sense that before they do face it next time we've met the VA's and also it wasn't called fourth by accident.
Let's not forget they did run away from Arabasta, all for different reasons, but they ran none the less.
I think the Strawhats will just escape. My reasons:
Fighting the Buster Call would stretch even more this arc. Really, we need a break. We need to see the SH's in safety once again and have some fun.
There was no Vice-Admiral introduced. Their fights would be meaningless.
Like some said, the Buster Call being defeated right now would almost equal that Luffy and co are greater than Whitebeard or Shanks, who do not have this level of enmity towards the government.
Now, if the Buster Call is avoided, maybe just one ship destroyed so that the SH's can escape, we can:
Have the introduction of the Vice-admirals.
Have the threat of the Buster Call returning later on a more appropriate ocasion.
Right now I want a break, and I want to know the Vice-Admirals. Some scenes of them discussing the escape of the SH's later would be cool, with each Vice-admiral being introduced and showing their motivations.
Ohara´s Buster Call could have failed without Kuzan/Aokiji help against Saulo, this is a fact.
Surely that is why the VA's are there, in order to ensure things go smoothly in case they need to engage in close range combat.
Dammit, you missed every point I'm trying to make. I'm saying strong people have gone down to Usopp before, and if Usopp has a future, then strong people will too.
Usopp's involvement in the Mr. 4 Pair's fight keeps coming up a testement as to why he can take on and defeat strong fighters, but the problem there is that he never used strength in order to make that happen, he lacks the power. put it this way, at a push, if you HAD to choose between who'd been more pivotal in the fight, who would it be?
Chopper had the power to defeat the Mr. 4 pair, Usopp had the sufferance.
They're already public enemy number one.
i have no idea, they'll rise in infamy and be the target of a sanctioned Mugiwara capture team, probably one of the Shichibuiki though, after reading Decide's (proceeding) post, i reckon it'll be a ranked Marine officer.
I think the Strawhats will just escape. My reasons:
Fighting the Buster Call would stretch even more this arc. Really, we need a break. We need to see the SH's in safety once again and have some fun.
There was no Vice-Admiral introduced. Their fights would be meaningless.
Like some said, the Buster Call being defeated right now would almost equal that Luffy and co are greater than Whitebeard or Shanks, who do not have this level of enmity towards the government.
Now, if the Buster Call is avoided, maybe just one ship destroyed so that the SH's can escape, we can:
Have the introduction of the Vice-admirals.
Have the threat of the Buster Call returning later on a more appropriate ocasion.
Right now I want a break, and I want to know the Vice-Admirals. Some scenes of them discussing the escape of the SH's later would be cool, with each Vice-admiral being introduced and showing their motivations.
Quality Post.
I think the Strawhats will just escape. My reasons:
Fighting the Buster Call would stretch even more this arc. Really, we need a break. We need to see the SH's in safety once again and have some fun.
There was no Vice-Admiral introduced. Their fights would be meaningless.
Like some said, the Buster Call being defeated right now would almost equal that Luffy and co are greater than Whitebeard or Shanks, who do not have this level of enmity towards the government.
Now, if the Buster Call is avoided, maybe just one ship destroyed so that the SH's can escape, we can:
Have the introduction of the Vice-admirals.
Have the threat of the Buster Call returning later on a more appropriate ocasion.
Right now I want a break, and I want to know the Vice-Admirals. Some scenes of them discussing the escape of the SH's later would be cool, with each Vice-admiral being introduced and showing their motivations.
-I'd rather have this arc stretched than have an entire arc dedicated to a fleet of ships who have a sole purpose of destroying single islands. First, there would have to be a suitable island, which the straw hats would have to be on. Then, it'd still probably be Usopp who takes out the ships. And I can't say I'm very excited about a bunch of goverment personal being the opponent of the Straw-hats again. The only difference would be the lack of Robin saving.
The Buster Call has been built up, the Vice-Admirals are there to supervise it. And it's seemingly random which Vice-Admirals come. So even if they runaway from this Buster Call, the next one probably won't have the same Vice-Admirals. And the Straw-hats don't even have to beat them to beat the Buster Call. They just have to stop Enies Lobby from getting destroyed. At least until everyone is saved.
WhiteBeard and Shanks have almost certainly never declared War on the goverment. I'm sure they could easily take on the goverment if they wanted to. But it's not in their intrests. The Straw Hats have a couple of reasons for fighting the Buster Call. Do you think that the Straw hats won't ever beat the Buster Call untill they are stronger than Whitebeard? WhiteBeard hasn't beaten any of the ShichiBukai, Luffy has. Does that mean Luffy is stronger than Whitebeard?
If the Buster Call is avoided, Robin will still not be a happy crew member. She'll still be haunted by the Buster Call, since they ran away from it. if they avoid the Buster Call, everyone except them who are currently on Enies Lobby will die. And what's a more appropriate time than now? The Buster Call is coming. There doesn't seem to be any way they could escape, and even if they could they would be condemning many people to die. Any time later, and it'd be boring. "Ohh look, it's the Buster Call again. the Straw Hats have once again managed to get stuck on an island that's scheduled for complete and utter destruction".
And the Vice-Admirals don't know the Straw Hats are even there. They have no emotion behind this attack. They are going to destroy Enies Lobby simply because they have been ordered to. It's not some dynamic attack squad that is going to try and hunt them down. They have no motivation. They are just going to do their job. And again,why would the same Vice-Admirals be on the Buster Call the next time?
^–- agreed. you pwn all my friend.
- Like some said, the Buster Call being defeated right now would almost equal that Luffy and co are greater than Whitebeard or Shanks, who do not have this level of enmity towards the government.
Well, uh, not really. Saul busted up maybe half of it, when Aokiji showed up. I'm sure Whitebeard's at least that strong, and he has a huge crew. Besides that, the government's strongest man no longer makes the rounds, so there's no question of him against Buster Call. But if you mean in a technical sense, well, "declaring war" on the world and getting away with it makes Luffy a HUGE pirate anyway.
This arc probably would get dragged, but for story purposes, I'd like to see it confronted. It'd probably help Robin's state of mind, AND it would be really selfish for the crew to go anywhere, since it would mark the destruction of wherever they dock. They have to face it eventually, and I don't think it'd be any easier to prolong it.
onemoment, you keep saying you hope the BC doesn't include god-like power
due to lack of character development.
However you keep bringing up Ussop here and there..
Well, the Buster Call clearly has the power to destroy an island, that's a fact. But, they're still ships, large floating structures made of wood and metal. Like big floating buildings with cannons.
Saul destroyed six on his own by flipping them over, not that it was easy, but like that still shows that it has the same weaknesses as any ship.
I'm just saying, they're mortal.
so I'm reading: "I hope the BC is weaker than CP9 because Ussop can't take on CP9, thus he needs a weak enemy to take on that the SH could normally take on, but due to range can't, in order to prove himself."
I laughed so hard at this statement. No, I'm saying that Usopp has the requirements to beat the Buster Call that he lacked with the CP9 and the SHs lack with the Buster Call. It's not about strength and weakness but different fighting styles.
The CP9 are powerful melee fighters, which as we've seen Usopp fares poorly against those. Meanwhile, the Buster Call is a long range power.
It's kind of like Luffy vs. Mr.1. Crocodile was most likely stronger then Mr.1 yet Luffy might not be able to beat Mr.1 due to his "blade weakness."
Or how Nami just happened to fight the only CP9 with a weakness to rain. Or how Franky just happened to fight the Cp9 with boxing skill. Or how Kaku just happened to be a swordsman (okay, there was some foreshadowing there).
I find that to be more demeaning towards Ussop rather than a hopeful wish to show off his power. So Ussop isn't strong enough to take on Godlike BC? He needs some "minimum requirements" VA's in order to defeat them?
I'm sorry if I offend you, but you're offending Ussop in between the lines, despite clearly being a fan of his.
Hmm, that's some food -for thought there. Sorry, to flip-flop, but after thinking it over, it would be perfect if the Vice Admirals are very strong.
It would fit the "role" theme perfectly. The VA have too much melee power for the SHs to fight right now. Maybe Sanji or Zoro get onto a BC ship, but due to their injuries they are unable to fight them. MAybe the fight is initated by a battle worn Luffy breaking a BC ship with a gear bazooka an getting shot down with cannonfire( which hurts like hell but he survives it).
Then Usopp with some help from his nakama destroy the BC ships. If the VAs are all hand-to-hand fighters, they won't be able to do much to stop a long range attack, like the SHs during Hina's Black cage squardron.
There is nothing wrong with having the SH protect Ussop from the VA's on the land while he and Franky and the Franky family shoot at the BC ships, it still establishes his sniper prowess, but shows the importance of a team, nakama, rather than just one piece of the team taking down an entire fleet of ships because the rest of the team just couldn't reach the ships/has already done something important.
Um…I completely agree with that.:blink:
Originally Posted by Deicide
- Have the threat of the Buster Call returning later on a more appropriate ocasion.
What, the marines are going to wipe two islands from the map and world in the same year? Wouldn't that have some major repercussions?
For the rest of your post, Sven Volfied pretty much covers it.
@Sven:
-I'd rather have this arc stretched than have an entire arc dedicated to a fleet of ships who have a sole purpose of destroying single islands. First, there would have to be a suitable island, which the straw hats would have to be on. Then, it'd still probably be Usopp who takes out the ships. And I can't say I'm very excited about a bunch of goverment personal being the opponent of the Straw-hats again. The only difference would be the lack of Robin saving.
The Buster Call has been built up, the Vice-Admirals are there to supervise it. And it's seemingly random which Vice-Admirals come. So even if they runaway from this Buster Call, the next one probably won't have the same Vice-Admirals. And the Straw-hats don't even have to beat them to beat the Buster Call. They just have to stop Enies Lobby from getting destroyed. At least until everyone is saved.
WhiteBeard and Shanks have almost certainly never declared War on the goverment. I'm sure they could easily take on the goverment if they wanted to. But it's not in their intrests. The Straw Hats have a couple of reasons for fighting the Buster Call. Do you think that the Straw hats won't ever beat the Buster Call untill they are stronger than Whitebeard? WhiteBeard hasn't beaten any of the ShichiBukai, Luffy has. Does that mean Luffy is stronger than Whitebeard?
If the Buster Call is avoided, Robin will still not be a happy crew member. She'll still be haunted by the Buster Call, since they ran away from it. if they avoid the Buster Call, everyone except them who are currently on Enies Lobby will die. And what's a more appropriate time than now? The Buster Call is coming. There doesn't seem to be any way they could escape, and even if they could they would be condemning many people to die. Any time later, and it'd be boring. "Ohh look, it's the Buster Call again. the Straw Hats have once again managed to get stuck on an island that's scheduled for complete and utter destruction".
And the Vice-Admirals don't know the Straw Hats are even there. They have no emotion behind this attack. They are going to destroy Enies Lobby simply because they have been ordered to. It's not some dynamic attack squad that is going to try and hunt them down. They have no motivation. They are just going to do their job. And again,why would the same Vice-Admirals be on the Buster Call the next time?
i'm not sure personal preference should feature as argument in bullet points. however, i have no idea what makes you feel it's not right up Oda's street to make the WG try and take out a whole island (and it's innocent inhabitants) as Nico Robin get's closer to the truth regarding the lost years. In fact i'd say that's a much more fitting fate for the Buster Call then having it all play out here, i.e. here they barely escape (because according to Zoro, that's what they're trying to do) and they see the Island go up in flames. in fact, it would even possibly mean they could lay low for a while due to the world thinking they're dead. The theme of the mugiwara's thus far is underestimation, thus we can probably put money on them not being world famous ala Shanks/Whitebeard after this. To protect innocents from the Buster Call and compromise the positon of the WG on a global scale seems rather Oda-esque to me.
Actually we're unsure of just what Whitebeard and Shanks have done, we know that Shanks is easily trackable as it and (respectively) Whitebeard and yet they're left on their own. We know that the world government consider a direct assault on either of the crews (and who knows how many more) overtly expensive and thus give them enough room to manouvre. we actually know that the WG fear peace amongst rival pirate crews more so than the pirates themselves and again that's interesting. I would say things are being built up immensely. And especially given the fact that we know Shanks does not pillage or plunder, i would say that his establishing himself as a great pirate points more to a facarde with the World Government than it does to him just partying alone merrily from Island to Island taking out Mountain Bandits.
If the buster call is avoided Robin will be very happy, she now beleives in her nakama and what they'd do for her, she has her life and she has the ability to persue her dreams, not once has any of her dreams been tied into defeating the Buster Call in fact the fact is she's just a realist on the damage it causes, no only on a physical level but on an emotional level and a level that effects the whole planet. The buster call was established as something that should be feared across endless time and by an infinate amount of people, it was not established as a myth to be broken in a slot before primetime by two balding men.
You're right, the Vice Admirals do not know what the attack regards, all they know is that they've been summoned to destroy All-Day Island and everything /one that inhabits it. which is even more reason for the Mugiwara to sneak out the bacdoor and count their chickens.
- i'm not sure personal preference should feature as argument in bullet points.
But your last point was a personal perference. You wanted shorter, he wanted longer. Who does Oda agree with? I recall people wanting Oda to shorten Skpiea.
- If the buster call is avoided Robin will be very happy, she now beleives in her nakama and what they'd do for her, she has her life and she has the ability to persue her dreams, not once has any of her dreams been tied into defeating the Buster Call in fact the fact is she's just a realist on the damage it causes, no only on a physical level but on an emotional level and a level that effects the whole planet. The buster call was established as something that should be feared across endless time and by an infinate amount of people, it was not established as a myth to be broken in a slot before primetime by two balding men.
But myths are constantly broken in OP. Why are warships suddenly invincible? Doesn't the hype lead to the fact that it will be defeated like so many other strong people?
Why should the Buster Call be an invincible force throughtout the series? The SHs still have the shichibukai, the admirals and some vice admirals, 10s of thousands of marines, blackbeard, whitebeard, and red-hair.
What also bugs me about the BC is that it is far from all of the marines resources. Why not 20 warships and 10 VCs? The marines must have that much. But the marines must use that because that's enough to destroy an island. If this BC is defeated, there are many more threats ahead for the SHs, and the marines will still have more resources.
Plus, the SHs have already declared war on the government, Luffy did it without thinking.
I think the SH's new ship will be the equivalent of the Oro Jackson basically, ,so its all going to come down to is thier new super ship (you know they will get one) capable of taking on something like the BC in naval warfare in terms of speed, firepower, armor, etc.
Ussop may not have a chance in hell against the BC with Kabuto, but if you put him behind some heavy cannons of a warship, and he may be able to pull off something amazing.
Sooner or later, in order to continue to progress on the grand line, the Straw Hats are going to have to prove that they can be successful at naval battles. In a world of pirates and marines, not every battle is going to be a bar brawl.
Usopp doesn't need to sink the ships, does he? He could probably just disable them and destroy the life boats.
hmm so the buster call is coming from behind the gates of justice. i thought they would come from another way i thought the strawhats were going to escape into the gate of justice and then see where they went. this means they might end up going back to water 7 or most likely to the place franky went with all the money he stole. most likely that's where the strawhats new ship is and is probably where iceburg will be putting the finishing touches on the ship or something like that. after that franky will join the strawhats and will part ways with the franky family.
I'd say Aokiji is more than able to do as much if not more damage than the BC. We're talking about a guy who can freeze the ocean on great distances for days. I doubt many people would survive if he just froze an island.
Why would they go through the great hassle of assembling such a big crew if he's nearly as destructive?
Two words: Burn Bazooka.
The bazooka was Wiper's weapon.
As I said, he must have build Kabuto for something. If his "upgrade" this arc is some kind of boshi he'd use to defeat Spandam, it'd be… You know Foxy, when he's dropping to his knees everytime Luffy mocks him? That'd be the feeling I'd have with the way Usopp has been portrayed during this saga.
Huh? I'm not saying that's the extent of Kabuto. I'm just saying given what the enemy is, no one person has what it takes to singlehandedly stop it.
And it would have to be singlehandedly. On a battlefield, with almost a dozen ships firing, it's impossible to dodge or evade. Like I said, not being hit doesn't mean you're even going to survive.
- i'm not sure personal preference should feature as argument in bullet points. however, i have no idea what makes you feel it's not right up Oda's street to make the WG try and take out a whole island (and it's innocent inhabitants) as Nico Robin get's closer to the truth regarding the lost years. In fact i'd say that's a much more fitting fate for the Buster Call then having it all play out here, i.e. here they barely escape (because according to Zoro, that's what they're trying to do) and they see the Island go up in flames. in fact, it would even possibly mean they could lay low for a while due to the world thinking they're dead. The theme of the mugiwara's thus far is underestimation, thus we can probably put money on them not being world famous ala Shanks/Whitebeard after this. To protect innocents from the Buster Call and compromise the positon of the WG on a global scale seems rather Oda-esque to me.
Well, Deicide's point was pretty much an opinion stated as fact. If I didn't concede that I was only taking into account my personal opinion, would it make for a better argument? Seems a bit shallow. And if the Island goes up in flames, then people will die. There's no way everyone can escape, especially the CP9. Luffy would not leave people to die like that, and there's no way Franky would leave without ascertaining that his family is okay. And so far, an arc has not been made out of a previous threat that the Strawhats have run away from. It would drag. And they have declared War on the World Goverment. Whatever you'd love to personally happen, The Strawhats are going to grow vastly in reputation. They've been playing with the big boys for a while now, now it's time they are recognized for it. And if they do fight the Buster Call here, they will be protecting people. Maybe not "Innocents", but people will die if the Straw hats don't protect them.
- Actually we're unsure of just what Whitebeard and Shanks have done, we know that Shanks is easily trackable as it and (respectively) Whitebeard and yet they're left on their own. We know that the world government consider a direct assault on either of the crews (and who knows how many more) overtly expensive and thus give them enough room to manouvre. we actually know that the WG fear peace amongst rival pirate crews more so than the pirates themselves and again that's interesting. I would say things are being built up immensely. And especially given the fact that we know Shanks does not pillage or plunder, i would say that his establishing himself as a great pirate points more to a facarde with the World Government than it does to him just partying alone merrily from Island to Island taking out Mountain Bandits.
They obviously don't get on, but do you think they are at war? I don't think Shanks is the sort of guy to directly attack a goverment installation.And while we don't know enough about Newgate to say that he probably would and wouldn't do, I doubt he's attacked the goverment directly either.
- If the buster call is avoided Robin will be very happy, she now beleives in her nakama and what they'd do for her, she has her life and she has the ability to persue her dreams, not once has any of her dreams been tied into defeating the Buster Call in fact the fact is she's just a realist on the damage it causes, no only on a physical level but on an emotional level and a level that effects the whole planet. The buster call was established as something that should be feared across endless time and by an infinate amount of people, it was not established as a myth to be broken in a slot before primetime by two balding men.
She doesn't want to beat the Buster Call, but she's scared of it. If the Strawhats don't defeat it, she'll still be scared of it. And the main theme of this arc is Robin/Usopp coming out of their shells and becoming valuable crewmembers. Defeating the Buster Call would tie up both of those things very nicely, if Usopp has a role in it's defeat. And the Buster Call isn't really that scary. It's 10 warships commanded by Five Vice-Admirals. If Oda had intended it to be the epitome of power, he wouldn't have shown Saul annihilating half of it, only to be beat by Ao Kiji. Who is the epitome of power.
And anyway, the Straw hats have shown that they aren't scared of the things that normal people fear. They beat God Enel and Crocodile.
You're right, the Vice Admirals do not know what the attack regards, all they know is that they've been summoned to destroy All-Day Island and everything /one that inhabits it. which is even more reason for the Mugiwara to sneak out the bacdoor and count their chickens.
But they aren't the only people there, yet they are only the ones who could probably take on the Buster Call (The CP9 could probably stand a good chance, but they are in no state to be fighting).
what if shanks and white beard comes to the rescue in the nick of time, destroying the BC warships? just guessing…
The bazooka was Wiper's weapon.
Not sure what this has to do with my point. You said nothing we've seen from the Skypiean dials could take down a ship, I replied that Wiper's bazooka could, and it was a dial-enhanced weapon.
Eh, Wiper's bazooka couldn't even take down luffy, or that giant snake.
@Sven:
Well, Deicide's point was pretty much an opinion stated as fact. If I didn't concede that I was only taking into account my personal opinion, would it make for a better argument? Seems a bit shallow.
It's not that, i'm thoroughly enjoying this debate, however bullet points should only be used to support arguments not make them or to present concise points as in summaries of an idea or piece. Presenting an argument in bullet points defeats the whole point. however ignore me despite the attempt at justification of the comment, rest assured i was initially being i was being facetious.
Eh, Wiper's bazooka couldn't even take down luffy, or that giant snake.
And again, it has nothing to do with what I'm saying, you're talking about living beings, I'm talking about ships. Wiper's bazooka made huge holes in gigantic trees. And what are boats made of in the One Piece world? Now picture the same kind of holes in the BC ships flank and tell me it wouldn't make them sink.