Luffy might not beat lucchi

[Vanessa]

The thing with that is I don't think Luffy has the luxury of time considering the Buster Call is already on it's way. I think this is going to be the end-all fight between them.

[onemoment]

I really think that the Buster Call will provide two purposes when it arrives:

1.) A cool background for Luffy and Lucci's battle. Sure, the BC is destructive, but not all at once. The last island (Ohara) couldn't fight back and it still took a bit a time to destroy it.

2.) Something for the rest of the SHs to do while Luffy and Lucci fight. Kind of like the bomb in Alabasta. Maybe it will be mixed in with saving Robin.

[ITSALION]

@Bounty1Berry:

It depends on Luffy's thought process. I could see several ways it would play out in his head:

Your model makes reasonable sense, but there's also the matter of time and knowledge. Luffy might figure that to do a proper beatdown of Lucci would take too long, and Robin would be lost before he could reach him. Or he might need something from Lucci; does he know how to get from where they are to the Gate of Justice? Does he know they have the right key? Those needs might force him to go soft on Lucci; not much good kicking his torso in if you bend the key so it won't open Robin's cuffs.

I think Oda's generally assumed that the keys can't get broken. Fukurou got blasted into the ground, what about his key?
But remember, chapter 411 I think it was, when Luffy was first fighting Lucci. He wasn't using all his different moves, he just chucked Lucci aside and tried to get through the door. But Robb-o was just too fast.
NOW Luffy can beat the shit out of him, regardless of what part of the room.
Originally, it was "Get outta my way."
Now it's shifted to "I'm gonna beat the crap out of you."

[game2005]

Lucci should fall in this arc and never appear again. He's nothing but a mindless killer like he said, so he doesn't deserve a second appearanace. Watch Luffy pull out a new Jet move and OWN him big time.

Never underestimate the rubber man.

[agmaster]

My my, I never the anti Lucci feeling was so deep. It's depressingly predictable that Luffy will speed own Lucci who will be shocked as he is defeated. Honestly, I believe the series may be at the point where it's luster is leaving…

[valiantt]

Well as long as the Shichibukai is there…I can't see any luster being lost in the serie for Oda definitely has a knack for creativity. But I do believe that Lucci isn't too profound of a villian, I believe Spandam shows more colors than Lucci in aspects of development. Lucci is more like Mr.1 in character aspect in my perspective...so I don't think his defeat will be all that "impacting."

[Robin Stjernberg]

Actually, I have been losing my interest of OP in a short while. My brain refuses to agree to it, but… The Nami VS. Calipha fight was pretty boring, and it feels like Oda is doing some things over and over again now at EL. The build up both here and at W7 was the greatest in the whole serie, but the so to speak climax isn't so great as I wished it to be. =/ Shame to say, but that is my opinion. And still, it may sound a bit neardy, but I consider OP to be the best thing in the entire world (blame me, sure...), and still this... A lot of things in this battles have been great, but a lot of it not too. I really hope Luffy VS. Luchi turns out to be one hell of a bad ass fight. I actually would like to see a all out serious fight with them.

But, as you said, Shichi bukai is there, and they are one hell of a gang.

[Shishou]

Luffy has not even used Gears to our knowledge.

[King Smack]

The Skichibukai are going to be there..? Since when..?

[Robin Stjernberg]

Some of them are doomed to fight the Strawhats. Mihawk, Doflammingo and Jinbei for an example. And they all seems like great enemies.

I actually came up why my love for OP went down a bit here. I think it's because it in these fights the CP9 is shown not to be so great characters to be super big enemies. Some of them could work great as ordinary characters, but not as villans. Just as none of the enemies to this point probably is enough to fit as Strawhats.

[zero chan]

My interest for OP went down a bit too, ever since Sanji appears to take over Usopp. Things look predictable and rushed from then on. It is not about the no. of chapters it lasted or pages it took. Actually if you piece Chopper's battles together, doesn't matter whether you want to start from 403 or 406, the total no. of pages take up less than 1.5 chapters. Yet a lot of good stuffs get packed into it. IMO at least, that is the best battle so far, so much so that people expect a lot more from the battles involving the top 3 CP9ers. For me at least, things fell flat from then on.

I wasn't looking forward to the CP9 battles any more. I am more interested in what happen on Robin's side. Also I hope Luffy doesn't lose this time since like most of you have said, defeating Lucci doesn't solve all the problems. It is merely an obstacle to overcome.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, that's the main reason why I think this will be the only fight. With every other enemy Luffy has faced, it was that beating them will stop whatever the problem is. In this however, the main problem isn't beating Lucci, but getting Robin back before she crosses the gate of justice. It'll be one hell of a fight though hopefully.

[AznJoker]

This is an opinion that I've been wanting to express after watching some of the recent fights but I've been waiting for the end of the arc to evalute it as a whole, but I'll share it now…

This (most likely) conclusion to an otherwise awesome arc has let me rather dissappointed, but before I start on why, I'll also add that before the start of the fights my idea was that the Mugiwara wouldn't be able to defeat every one of the CP9, and that it would end in a parcial victory of some sort (like getting Robin back and CP9 having to retreat, and the Buster Call would have been the perfect excuse for that).

My reasoning for the CP9 being that good: Kamie, Soru and their ruthlessness. And what do we get now that the're fighting? The CP9 hardly use kamie, they don't overwhelm the Mugiwara with soru, and they spend too much time being... Goofy rather than being ruthless. I know that the goofyness is what makes One Piece unique, yet I think Oda went overboard on this one. For example, the battle between Luffy and Blueno was... Perfect. Kalifa against Nami? Didn't make sense, at all. What is Kalifa waiting to just go Soru on Nami? Why waste time using her DF powers? And please someone explain how did Sogeking and Zoro managed to escape Kaku and Jyabura for so long... Soru anyone?!?!

The fights are just too convenient, the CP9 abuse Geppou, Tekkai and Rankyaku, yet kamie and soru that would make the difference they hardly use them (for example, when they use soru they usually hit the manuever, and the few times kamie was used they never were hit).

The start/middle part of this arc was awesome, yet if this really is the end of the arc... It's still good, but nowhere near the quality of the start/middle part of the arc.

So, after watching the fights I come to the conclusion that OP is still bound to the rules of shounen manga, so I say Luffy will win (Please prove me wrong Oda!!!! ).

[Leaf Cable]

This post is deleted!

[crossbowgurl]

@Leaf:

Nice point, and I agree. I hurts me to say that I'm disappointed with One Piece. It's one of my favorite anime/manga series! To be honest, I actually do hope that Luffy loses. Why? Not because I hate him or anything, but I feel that it will (maybe) cause him to go into an identity crisis of his own! I think he should walk in Usopp's shoes, so to speak. Losing to first Aokiji and then Lucci could cause him to re-examine his role as captain and his strength as a fighter.
And yes, I wanted Usopp to fight Jyabura too. I was also expecting the CP9 to be as menacing as the originally portrayed themselves. Otherwise, I didn't want CP9 to be a rehash of Baroque Works.

oh no! poor luffy going through all this hell of usopp AND robin leaving him and then LOOSE?? i would cry ;_;

plus luffy will never loose wasnt it said one time that he's the type to fight without stopping till the end? he'll just keep going and going and going and-…

[theinvisibleworm]

I think that the reason the fights seem "rushed" is because they need to be given the situation that the mugiwara are in, they don't exactly have a lot of time to beat the cp9 if they want to save robin and deal with the buster call.

I'm pleased with the way the fights are going, and I really don't understand why some feel they should have lasted longer.

[onemoment]

Come to think of it, are the fights really that short? I mean, how long have the fights been in the past? I forget right now.

Franky was like, 2 chapter (half of two chapters, full in one)
Chopper was like, less then 2.
Nami was 3 I think.
Sanji got 1 and a 1/4 I think.
Zoro got 2, and some fights in the beginning in his human form.

But aren't most OP fights like 2 or 3 chapters?

[LUCCI DA PIGEON PIMP]

The fight are always 2 or 3 chapter max when the fight really start , i don't understand why people want luffy lose to lucci when he has been defeated by him at water 7 , it's not that lucci is the final boss of onepiece .

Don't forget that : ace and the blacbeard pirates are still there , doflamingo and his new piracy era , the other shishibukai , the 3 admirals , red hair shanks , whitebeard and whatever pirate or marine or even cp ODA want to throw in the story , he can even make knights fighting the strawhat if he want .

In front all the future ennemies of luffy who is lucci ? spandam's lackey .
Onepiece is not about defeating the all mighty leopard mindles killer lucci , even spandam is more interesting than lucci .

Lucci is not the end of the world .

[Voodzik]

No he's not ALSO, I had an interesting thought here: What if it's not Luffy, but USOPP who takes on Lucci? Hear me out here.

1: Usopp needs some kind of big win
2: Luffy is already trying to just blow past lucci and get there to saving robin
3: Spandam has a bladed DF weapon with god only knows what properties

So you see if Luffy gets past Lucci to save Robin, Spandam will have to fight him head on, and Usopp could take lucci.

I'm just putting it forewards as possible. At this point I give it a forty-five percent chance of happening. It would really blast luster back into the arc though, wouldn't it?

Anyway, those of you whining can leave. If all you're reading for is the fights than you're all wrong for OP. The plot of this arc was awesome, these fights are a tiny part of that arc that is necessary.

[zero chan]

@Voodzik:

No he's not ALSO, I had an interesting thought here: What if it's not Luffy, but USOPP who takes on Lucci? Hear me out here.

1: Usopp needs some kind of big win
2: Luffy is already trying to just blow past lucci and get there to saving robin
3: Spandam has a bladed DF weapon with god only knows what properties

So you see if Luffy gets past Lucci to save Robin, Spandam will have to fight him head on, and Usopp could take lucci.

I'm just putting it forewards as possible. At this point I give it a forty-five percent chance of happening. It would really blast luster back into the arc though, wouldn't it?

I must say you have a cool idea here. But too bad, there are times when Oda wants to do predictable stuffs.

[Leaf Cable]

Usopp vs. Lucci? That sounds cool. I suggested that too back in another thread but no one took the suggestion seriously. I would love that! That would be much better than Usopp vs. Jyabura! And yes, I like more than just the fights in One Piece. I'm eager to see what happens next and how this arc will wrap up! To be fair to the CP9, my favorite members are Fukurou, Kumadori, Jyabura and Spandam. Otherwise, the weird/crazy guys!
I'm mainly disappointed with Calipha. She was so badass earlier then later made into a bimbo. Her Devil Fruit power kicks ass though! But she should of been more of a spiteful bitch! >:)
I guess I'm just letting everyone else get me down. I've been a One Piece fan for too long! I will not give up on Oda!

[Vanessa]

Ok lets be serious here, Usopp lost against Jyabura. No offense to anyone here ,but what makes you think he even has a shot against Lucci, much less even win. When he couldn't even beat Jyabura, if we're going to doukiri, is a little over half of what Lucci can bring.

[zero chan]

@Kidany:

Ok lets be serious here, Usopp lost against Jyabura. No offense to anyone here ,but what makes you think he even has a shot against Lucci, much less even win. When he couldn't even beat Jyabura, if we're going to doukiri, is a little over half of what Lucci can bring.

Well, the person who suggested a Usopp Vs Lucci match-up with Usopp winning, only gave the event a 45% chance happening. Hence he/she wasn't totally wrong or anything.

[Voodzik]

@Kidany:

Ok lets be serious here, Usopp lost against Jyabura. No offense to anyone here ,but what makes you think he even has a shot against Lucci, much less even win. When he couldn't even beat Jyabura, if we're going to doukiri, is a little over half of what Lucci can bring.

Actually he never got to FIGHT jyabura. Sanji barged in before either one really exchanged anything resembling a serious blow. For all we know Usopp could have whipped some kind of Awesome Super Ultimate Dragon Fire Star out of Kabuto and clocked Jyabura in one hit.

[Darkestsith6]

I'm sorry to burst whatever bubble your living in, but in Usopp's current condition, he has no chance at beating Lucci. 0%.

I'll stop reading the manga if Usopp beats Lucci.

[butt3r]

SogeKing is overrated. Remember, he got totally thrashed by Jyabura even before Sanji comes. Even if he shoots some projectiles, Jyabura used Soru to evade it. Lucci's physical power is nearly twice of Jyabura's. I'll agree with the above poster. If Ussopp beat Lucci without any major help, I'll stop reading One Piece.

[Voodzik]

@Darkestsith6:

I'll stop reading the manga if Usopp beats Lucci.

Good; you'll not be missed.

@butt3r:

SogeKing is overrated. Remember, he got totally thrashed by Jyabura even before Sanji comes.

There wasn't much of a battle; they just yelled at each other, and maybe Usopp took a shigan, I can't remember. They hardly did anything.

@butt3r:

Even if he shoots some projectiles, Jyabura used Soru to evade it. Lucci's physical power is nearly twice of Jyabura's.

You're absolutely right, what was I thinking? Jyabura dodged with Soryu and Usopp didn't hit, that obviously means he can't win. And SANJI can't win either, because he only almost broke Blueno's tekkai and Jyabura is several times more powerful than Jyabura, so he's doomed to loose too. Wait….

@butt3r:

I'll agree with the above poster. If Ussopp beat Lucci without any major help, I'll stop reading One Piece.

Good; now I really hope it happes so that a couple of character bashing mentally redarded piles of penguin dung will not be in contact with me anymore.

[Buccaneer]

"Redarded"? You hypocrite.

Usopp couldn't beat Jabura. None of the hope and spirit and quirkiness people fawn over him can change that. Why? Because it was made clear by Oda through Sanji. It happened, there's no debating it. Usopp was even touched because he realized what his true role was.

So even if Usopp could beat Lucci or Jabura, that's really not the point. No matter who he can beat, what he needs to be is something other than a fighter. Else his epiphany would be wasted in him becoming someone he's not. He'll probably fight Spandam along the way, but there's a helluva difference there.

[LUCCI DA PIGEON PIMP]

how can you seriously think that usopp could beat lucci…..? Even without the power gap , figthing is also a question of spirit and usopp have bravery which is a good thing but lucci is bloodthirsty , he is a real killer and the same usopp you are talking about apologized in front of him when lucci just look at him back in the warehouse . I know that it 's not relevant to take a situation from the past where usopp wasn't knowing about the truth concerning robin but if it's not the same usopp as now it's still the same lucci .

In front of a bloodthirsty killer what can usopp do ? We have seen him with jabura , he tried to fight but he was clearly outclassed by him .
In different conditions maybe he could win but let's face it he has been defeated by a real and sadistic killer .

With ener it was the same thing , he tried to buy time but he was defeated again .
For me when usopp just try he impress me because never in hell i would even try to fight back a thunder god or killer wolfman .

Usopp can beat a kind of opponent but not the like of lucci and such not because of their power but because of their spirit and mentality .
It's not the "oh ! he is too cool to be beaten by usopp !" thing , it's the "that guy has the mind of a real mercyless killer , if usopp try and didn't success in hurting him , he is doomed !!" vibe.

[Voodzik]

First of , Buccaneer: Why am I a hyppocrate?

Second of all, I never said I thought for certain it would happen. I put it foreward as a possibility. What I recieved was a group of people talking about how utterly useless the character in question is and how they would quit reading it if the got that particular moment of glory.

Chuu was bloodthirst too. Mr. 4 and Ms. Merrychristmas weren't exactly anybody's ideal playmate either. Usopp stood up to Enel one on one, and yes he did get beaten–but so did EVERYONE ELSE EVER except Luffy. You people are amazing; it's like all the stuff he's done, all the things he survived, simply do not matter.

[LUCCI DA PIGEON PIMP]

So your are saying that chuu and lucci are mentally the same ?
If it is what you are trying to say then i think we don't have the same image of coldblooded killers .
And i don't forget all the things usopp has done until now and all the fight he has win but the fact is in the present time usopp has not the same state of mind as luffy , zoro , sanji and franky to fight the guys like lucci ( remember im not talking about strength but state of mind ) .

The guy with the kind of state of mind i m talking about and who is clearly usopp's future opponent is van auger ; from his fight against van auger then i will accept the fact that usopp can fight that kind of guy because he would have experienced that kind of fight .

Think about it van auger seems to be the second or the third strongest among the blackbeard pirates and who is gonna defeat him ? not zorro, not sanji, not franky but CAPTAINNNNNNNNN USOPP!!:wub:

I m waiting for this fight to happen because it will be the first sniper vs sniper real fight !
I m not an usopp hater , i love him because he is the most human among the strawhat and the most resiliant of them .

[Voodzik]

Mr. Pidgion Pimp, i understand what you are saying. You will note I only gave it a 45% possibility. My objection was to how you seemed to consider it totally impossible.

[Buccaneer]

It is. I wouldn't stop reading, but I'd be thoroughly disappointed. That has nothing to do with my appreciation for Usopp, and I don't think it's a reason to call someone else "redarded" when it's such an awful possibility.

[Voodzik]

How is it so awful, exactly?

[Yoska]

Every time I see the thread's title it makes me giggle all the way through. Well, perhaps not all the way nor every time but at least half-way and every second time. That's really all I've to say.

[Buccaneer]

I don't think Oda even tried to convince anyone that there's a chance of Luffy losing.

@Voodzik:

How is it so awful, exactly?

I think it would take too much typing on my part to explain. But mainly it'd be to me that Usopp would follow the logic that while beating Jabura is Sanji's role, his is to beat the much stronger guy that Luffy already went after. Because he was doing so well against Jabura.

[Aldrich]

@Buccaneer:

So even if Usopp could beat Lucci or Jabura, that's really not the point. No matter who he can beat, what he needs to be is something other than a fighter. Else his epiphany would be wasted in him becoming someone he's not. He'll probably fight Spandam along the way, but there's a helluva difference there.

Exactly.

Him fighting Lucci is one of the worst fan theories in the history of bad fan theories, it's actually almost as bad as people saying he'll be fine if he only beats Spandam. It shows a complete misunderstanding of what Oda tried to convey about Usopp IMO.

[Vanessa]

Ok, Voodzik, how logical do you think it would be if Usopp and Jyabura fought without him losing. No disrespect here, Usopp is one of my top 5 favorite characters, just read:

Usopp is a fighter who uses the distance between him and his opponent in order to pull out attacks and also distract them. They were in a small space while another two people were fighting in that same room. Disadvantage for Usopp already. Jyabura is a martial artist who can basically use soru to get from one end of the room to the other. Another disadvantage there. I'm not bashing on Usopp or anything, but how can you honestly believe he'd win against a meleee specialist under these kinds of conditions.

Now you propose him fighting someone who maybe about twice as skilled in using the martial art their skills are based on. I just don't see how it can happen.

[Voodzik]

Alright then Kidany, I'll explain myslef; I'm pressed for time now, I'll edit your post in quoted later.

First of all, all the disadvantages you point out for Usopp in his fight with Jyabura are definitely true. However if it boiled down to that Usopp could not, in fact, beat ANY CP9 member and by all rights should never have won against Chu, who used plenty of melee once he caught up with Usopp.

Second, Lucci is fighting at the moment in a far less contained area; that room is HUGE. It's also got lots of boxes and crates; plenty of places for Usopp to hide and deliver surprise attacks.

Third, we have never really seen Lucci's fighting style. For all we know he's long range; he hasn't fought anyone this arc seriously yet.

Finally, I only said it as a possibility. I stand here defending usopp's honor because of something I only gave a 45% probablity to. Really guys, sheesh.

[Vanessa]

I know you did, I'm just trying to understand why'd you want Usopp to fight Lucci. If by some miracle it does end up happening and he does fight Lucci and win, that'd be a major mistake IMO. Not saying him winning is wrong, it'd make a very wrong message come across.

When Usopp had that argument with Luffy about Going Merry before their fight, he brought up that since Luffy is leaving the ship, that he'd just toss aside anyone who wasn't strong. While we, the readers, know that isn't true. If Usopp faces off against Lucci and wins it'd only prove Usopp point right, that you HAVE to be strong to stick with Luffy. I also think that's why Oda decided on Usopp not fighting Jyabura, since if he'd have fought against one of the strongest people there, it'd only bring out the wrong message. If Usopp is to shine in this arc, it won't be thorugh some battle, it'll only be through something, as Sanji said "Only something he can do." Again, this is all my opinion.

I have no problem with you defending your reasoning, at least you aren't just saying "OMG USOPP AWESOME HE GONNA PWN LUCCI". You're being civil about it. So no hard feelings.

[lpzie]

Why not 43% probablity? I give that number a 86% probablity of being right rather then 45%. =O

But mainly it'd be to me that Usopp would follow the logic that while beating Jabura is Sanji's role, his is to beat the much stronger guy that Luffy already went after. Because he was doing so well against Jabura.

I Lol'd at the subtle humor.

[onemoment]

Really, if Oda wanted to, he could make-up 100s of different ways for Usopp to beat Jyabura, but wrote it so that he did poorly (the ten-finger shigan).

Hell, the "there's not enough space!" is a weak reason. Usopp often makes distractions to get away. Also, that room became huge after Zoro and Sanji knocked out a few walls.

[Moosteak]

This argument is dumb. Stop arguing over something that has been admitted to be unlikely.

Instead we should argue if Usopp is going to fight side-by-side with Luffy against Lucci and Hattori(who turns out to be some random something). Or maybe we could argue about which theory, Ussop/Luffy vs Lucci/Hattori or Usopp vs Lucci is more likely. That might be 10% (+/- 5%) less stupid then the arguing that's been going on for a page.

Or maybe we should argue about how the likeliness that the post will go the way I suggested. I'd say there's about a 12% chance of that.

[Voodzik]

Actually Moosteak, that's the thing I think is more likely. A priate bond of untied friendship sounds just the ticket here.

And the reason Usopp yelled about Luffy passing over everyone who isn't strong came not really out of Luffy's actions but out of his own feelings of inadequacy. Usopp's problem is confidence IN HIMSELF, not in Luffy. He just saw Luffy replacing the Going Merry and, feeling too weak to be with the others already, wigged out.

[The_Merciless_Pirate]

I personally want to see Ussop (Sogeking) beat Lucci; even though that is highly unlikely.

Ussop hasn't fought and won over any strong, major opposing characters for awhile.

[duock]

sory, about the ussop vs lucci, it wont happen, because luffy said he definite kick the lucci ass.

[onemoment]

I'm not saying that I want to see Lucci vs. Usopp, or that it's likely to happen. However, I just think it's unimaginative that it could never happen, or saying that anything could never happen in a shounen series.

[Aldrich]

It's not unimaginative, it's just you've got to have some coherence. Usopp failed to beat Jyabura, and by doing so Oda clearly stated that Usopp wasn't one of the crew's main one on one fighters and that his role was something else. That's why having him fight and beat Lucci (or even Spandam though for slightly different reasons) would make zero sense, in terms of story and character development.

[onemoment]

@Aldrich:

It's not unimaginative, it's just you've got to have some coherence. Usopp failed to beat Jyabura, and by doing so Oda clearly stated that Usopp wasn't one of the crew's main one on one fighters and that his role was something else. That's why having him fight and beat Lucci (or even Spandam though for slightly different reasons) would make zero sense, in terms of story and character development.

Hey, I'm just sick of people saying "that's impossible" in a fantasy series. The Jybura vs. Ussop meeting could have gone differently, but it didn't because Oda's going somewhere–and that's really the only reason why people win or lose fights in these series, or why anything happens in general. It's a series of convinient plot devices and coincidences that sometimes make a genius manga.

[Chubbychez]

I don't get it. Why are people saying Usopp is no longer a fighter? Personally I think Usopp is destined to be one of the top fighters of the mugiwaras, just not a top melee fighter. Just like how in each arc Zoro and Sanji take the top swordsman and top martial artist respectively, Usopp will take the top gunman.

BTW, I agree with most that Usopp fighting and beating Lucci is a really stupid idea.