M-M-M-Monster Choppa Discussion

TheSonofBattles

Seeing as how we were dragging another topic right out of its course, and it was ongoing I might as well start a new topic for it here.

So, pulling the last post in, lets begin:

@Kurairu:

The hair-guy(shut up, I'm bad with names) was freaking out because he's a coward

Franky is the only person I can think of to match this, and he's certainly no coward.

@Kurairu:

but Luffy woul see the hat and know it was chopper. Plus, when was the last time Luffy was scared to the point of affecting his fighting?(save that one time)

When was he ever affected?

@Kurairu:

Chopper is amazingly powerful on the other hand. Meaning that if Luffy messed up EVEN ONCE, he'd probably be down and out.

This is one of the points I disagreed with you on.

I don't think there's anyone anywhere in the world strong enough to put Luffy down in one hit. The same holds true for Monster Chopper I'd imagine.

@Kurairu:

And granted, Chopper could probably take anywhere from 1 to 3 gears (1), and probably 2 gear (2)'s.

I'm confused as to what you mean here. Whats the numbers in the brackets mean, how many attacks he could take from each gear maybe?

If so, then you have to take into account what attack he's using as well as the gear.

@Kurairu:

Chopper's power and defense are two advantages for him.

Here's another contentious point to me. We've yet to really see anything that could indicate how good Monster Point is defensively. We do know he's pretty fast as he intercepted Kumadori easily, we just don't know how much he could take.

@Kurairu:

But the clincher is that Luffy has gear 3, which we all know, compresses his body so that his hits are more dense, and thusly harder, striking with more power and causing more damage. Chopper would be easily taken down by a well timed Gear 3. Granted, it would have to be at a convienient time, so Luffy would have to toy with Chopper, dodging his attacks until he saw a good opening.

And this plays into the above disagreement as well. Monster Point probably could take several hits from even a Gear 3 Luffy. It certainly looks like it could to me, but we don't really know, and have no way of knowing at the moment.

Now, I realize there's no huge divergence of opinion there or anything, but Monster Chopper is an interesting guy, so the topic could make for some fun discussion, regardless of how boring its start is.

onemoment

I'm curious about how Chopper will change after this arc. Will the crew keep this form a secret, or will Chopper find out, and how will he react?

Yep, it's some nice development for him.

As for it's strength….a lot. It'd give any of the SHs a run for their money. I'd imagine that all the "top 3" SHs will be bloodied up.

However, I have this feeling that...by the end of the series Monster Chopper will job for some other powerful character in the series...like Whitebeard or something.

you raise excellent counter-points, but most of both of our conjectures are based solely on assumtions and opinion, so we'll have to wait to see more of Monster till we can know =D

Hopefully that happens again within no more than three arcs

Oh, oh, the number in parenthesis was the gear..Like Gear 1 Gear 2, and Gear 3…though looking back, I can't remember why I put them in parenthesis. Differentiation, probably.

blueblip

I'm all for Chopkong beating Luffy, but there are two points that make me a little iffy. One, We really have no clue about Moster Chopper's endurence. I can only recall Calipha hitting him/it with a rankyaku, causing a minor cut. I'm ruling out Franky's Coup de Vent because the shot knocked Chopper into water, so we probably will never know if the shot hurt Chopkong in anyway.

The other thing is what Luffy's jet attacks are. They kinda look like impact dials to me, and if they are based along that, then there's nothing Chopper can really do to stop something that damages him internally, monster or not. As for gear 3, well, while it's still speculation I think people are right about the compressing –> increasing damage. So gear 3 ought to hurt Chopper significantly in monster as well. Whether it can take him out in one hit or 12 is something I can't say right now.

TheSonofBattles

@onemoment:

I'm curious about how Chopper will change after this arc. Will the crew keep this form a secret, or will Chopper find out, and how will he react?

Yea, I'm really looking forward to the post Enies Lobby, lazy days sailing to see how Chopper, and the rest of the crew goes about dealing with this.

Will they have him taking lots of rumble balls and trying to find a way to control it, or will they encourage him to make a new type of rumble ball?

That to me seems the most obvious route, a new type of rumble ball that lets him control Monster Point, and maybe lets him stay in each differant point for a longer period.

I'm not sure how you mean "keep it a secret" though. While Chopper might not know what it looks like, or what exactly it can do, he certainly knows about the form already, and that it can be extremely dangerous and destructive.

@onemoment:

However, I have this feeling that…by the end of the series Monster Chopper will job for some other powerful character in the series...like Whitebeard or something.

Huh?

Whats job mean?

As in work for someone else, and leave the Strawhats? :wacko:

blueblip

Nope, to 'job' for someone in comics means for a character to loose to another character who they really shouldn't loose to, or that they loose far easier than they really should. Kinda like T-Bone. Oda set him up as a really powerful swordsman, and yet Zoro was able to beat him in one hit. T-Bone 'jobbed' for Zoro, in that while T-Bone shouldn't have lost so easily, he did because Oda wanted to use T-Bone as a way to show us how strong Zoro had gotten to be. In a proper fight, I'm betting T-Bone would give Zoro a good run for his money. Another example would be if saaaaay…right at this point, Aokiji shows up to fight Ussop and is defeated by Ussop's Phoenix Star because Oda wanted to show us that it was an uber powerful move. This would mean Aokiji is jobbing for Ussop.

Hope this is a decent explanation. Ask more knowledgeable comics people for more info.

onemoment

@TheSonofBattles:

Huh?

Whats job mean?

As in work for someone else, and leave the Strawhats? :wacko:

A wrestling term I think, when someone loses much easier then they normally should–usually it establish someones strength. It happens a look in shouen anime, like Nappa vs. Goku.

Or...

Mihawk vs. Zoro

Ao kiji vs. the SHs

Enel vs. Sanji

I'm saying that I think Monster Chopper will get knocked out by someone incredibly strong in the future to establish someones strength. But I guess that could happen to anyone.

Polygon

@onemoment:

Mihawk vs. Zoro

Ao kiji vs. the SHs

Enel vs. Sanji

How are these fights examples of "jobs"?

KizoFieva

@TheSonofBattles:

Franky is the only person I can think of to match this, and he's certainly no coward.

I would imagine they were referring to Kumadori.

Cap'n Carter

@Octogon:

How are these fights examples of "jobs"?

Becuase they were raped without much effort?

TheSonofBattles

@KizoFieva:

I would imagine they were referring to Kumadori.

Well, I wouldn't call Kumadori a coward either.

Even seeing the size and strength of Monster Point, he tried both attacking and defending against it.

Polygon

@Cap'n:

Becuase they were raped without much effort?

**but according to onemoment and blueblip a Job is when a character loses to another character when they shouldn't or easier then they should.

Mihawk was clearly holding back against Zoro

How could sanji even touch enel?

and Ao-Kiji is the strongest Marine.**

Dr.Chopper

A good example would be of a "job" would be…
Sanji vs Blueno
Sanji honestly could've easily pulverized him... but he didn't.

Cap'n Carter

He meant when a character does much poorer in a fight than is expected of them.

Like, when a newcomer easily destroys a veteran and well-resputed fighter.

This story telling effect is used a lot in Eyeshield 21, like Shinryuuji completely shutting out Oujou, a very strong and respected team. Or how Agon effortlessly dispatched Mizumachi, a really strong player.

It's used a lot in DBZ too, like Goku singlehandedly defeating Nappa without getting a scratch on him, while Nappa made quick work of everyone else. Or when Trunks came out of nowhere and killed Freeza.

Whether the guy has a chance or not is irrelevant, since it's to demonstrate how powerful the new figure is.

Polygon

@Cap'n:

He meant when a character does much poorer in a fight than is expected of them.

Like, when a newcomer easily destroys a veteran and well-resputed fighter.

This story telling effect is used a lot in Eyeshield 21, like Shinryuuji completely shutting out Oujou, a very strong and respected team. Or how Agon effortlessly dispatched Mizumachi, a really strong player.

It's used a lot in DBZ too, like Goku singlehandedly defeating Nappa without gettign a scratch on him, while Nappa made quick work of everyone else. Or when Trunks came out of nowhere and killed Freeza.

Ah, I see. So whether it's a job or not depends strongly on the readers perception of their strengh. but to be none of those fights were jobs. but I see your point.

Taleran

jobbing is an example of a character who NEVER WINS but still keeps getting stronger

see

Renji - Bleach

Rock Lee - Naruto

Yamcha - DBZ

TheSonofBattles

@Dr.Chopper:

A good example would be of a "job" would be…
Sanji vs Blueno
Sanji honestly could've easily pulverized him... but he didn't.

Actually, it may have seemed like a job at the time, but it makes sense looking back on it.

Sanji like everyone else when they initially fought the CP9 was held back due to conflicting emotions regarding Robin, and why she wouldn't believe in them etc.

Due to this, he wasn't going all out against Blueno from the get go, and subsequently never got a chance to do something like his fire leg.

Yea, he could beat Blueno now, but he couldn't then for good storyline reasons.

KizoFieva

To "do the job" is in fact a wrestling term, meaning technically to lose intentionally, but more often used to emphasize the complete lack of useful/discernible offense from the "jobber." In this context, yes, Blueno jobbed to Luffy.

(Incidentally, I disagree with Taleran's assessment most.)

Buccaneer

From what we've seen, Monster Chopper would fall to regular Luffy, if only because his biggest hits wouldn't do much or anything at all to Luffy.

Taleran

@KizoFieva:

To "do the job" is in fact a wrestling term, meaning technically to lose intentionally, but more often used to emphasize the complete lack of useful/discernible offense from the "jobber." In this context, yes, Blueno jobbed to Luffy.

(Incidentally, I disagree with Taleran's assessment most.)

you may disagree with it but that is the context the word has taken everywhere else

onemoment

@Cap'n:

He meant when a character does much poorer in a fight than is expected of them.

Like, when a newcomer easily destroys a veteran and well-resputed fighter.

This story telling effect is used a lot in Eyeshield 21, like Shinryuuji completely shutting out Oujou, a very strong and respected team. Or how Agon effortlessly dispatched Mizumachi, a really strong player.

It's used a lot in DBZ too, like Goku singlehandedly defeating Nappa without getting a scratch on him, while Nappa made quick work of everyone else. Or when Trunks came out of nowhere and killed Freeza.

Whether the guy has a chance or not is irrelevant, since it's to demonstrate how powerful the new figure is.

Yeah, this guy pretty muich has what my idea of jobbing is. Wow, who'd thought they'd be so much discussion on this? But yeah, I saw Mihawk vs. Zoro as jobbing because Zoro's total defeat proved how strong Mihawk.

From what we've seen, Monster Chopper would fall to regular Luffy, if only because his biggest hits wouldn't do much or anything at all to Luffy.

Luffy's "blunt damage" immunity isn't as great as it used to be. He's been hurt by Sanji's kick and Franky's 'Strong Right' (though I think the anime exaggerrated it). I imagine Monster Chopper's punches would hurt him, I mean he knocked down Franky with a punch to his steel body (though yeah, he did get up but he was still down for a chapter…which in shounen is what...3 minutes?).

Buccaneer

He wasn't hurt, he was stunned. Just like when Dorry stomped him. He can be put down or sent flying, even have his breath taken like when he took the Shigan to the neck, but there's no way he can be stopped by a person with blunt attacks. Especially if he defends, evades, and fights back.

Polygon

@Buccaneer:

He wasn't hurt, he was stunned. Just like when Dorry stomped him. He can be put down or sent flying, even have his breath taken like when he took the Shigan to the neck, but there's no way he can be stopped by a person with blunt attacks. Especially if he defends, evades, and fights back.

He can be hurt. Luffy has no more immunity against blunt attacks than zoro or sanji do. The differance is he won't be killed by them. Even if he is rubber, thats still his body. He still fells when he is touched.

Buccaneer

He doesn't? So I guess he lied when Alvida hit him. And Lucci defended his lie by not piercing his neck.

onemoment

@Buccaneer:

He doesn't? So I guess he lied when Alvida hit him. And Lucci defended his lie by not piercing his neck.

Well, even after that shigan Luffy was on the floor coughing and holding his neck. His rubber body stopped him from being killed, but Lucci still hurt his throat.

Polygon

@Buccaneer:

He doesn't? So I guess he lied when Alvida hit him. And Lucci defended his lie by not piercing his neck.

What I meant is while he has some immunity, blunt attacks to hurt him. They probaley won't kill him. But they do hurt. If they didn't then all these past chapters of OP would seem empty.

Buccaneer

Why would they seem empty? That makes no sense. That was part of his powers.

Lucci got him in the neck, so I don't imagine it feeling too good. But for the most part, he was unaffected, and it was obvious. Notice that Blueno didn't try Shigan, Arlong or Krieg didn't use their massive strength to strike him, etc.

Polygon

@Buccaneer:

Why would they seem empty? That makes no sense. That was part of his powers.

If he doesn't feel pain from blunt attacks. If they don't harm him at all, there would almost be no point to any of luffy's fights. Blunt attacks do harm him, they just don't cause critical damage unless someone like Whitebeard hit him.

Lucci got him in the neck, so I don't imagine it feeling too good. But for the most part, he was unaffected, and it was obvious. Notice that Blueno didn't try Shigan, Arlong or Krieg didn't use their massive strength to strike him, etc.

**Luffy got the wind knocked out of him from a blunt attack and he felt pain. And there is an obvious reaon why Blueno didn't try shigan. It wouldn't go through him. the point of shigan is to penetrate the skin, he couldn't do that with luffy.

True Arlong and Krieg didn't use blunt attacks to try and kill him. But they know that blunt attacks won't kill him. they wanted him dead. they couldn't dothat will blunt attacks.**

Buccaneer

There's no way to harm someone to a great extent and not be able to kill them. You can die or pass out from a sheer amount of pain. And at least stop fighting. You'd think a guy able to throw a palmful of water hard enough to down Sanji would consider that if there was a point.

And there would be a point to Luffy's fights, seeing as how all of his enemies either have sharp objects or Logia powers.

Polygon

@Buccaneer:

There's no way to harm someone to a great extent and not be able to kill them. You can die or pass out from a sheer amount of pain. And at least stop fighting. You'd think a guy able to throw a palmful of water hard enough to down Sanji would consider that if there was a point.

**So you honestly think he feels no pain rom blunt attacks? If that were true than I honetly don't know if I would want to read OP any more.

Tell me how him being rubber makes him invunrable to blunt attacks?**

And there would be a point to Luffy's fights, seeing as how all of his enemies either have sharp objects or Logia powers.

It wouldn't be as filling if he felt no pain from blunt attacks.

Buccaneer

Same way his body allows him to deflect lightning altogether, ask Oda.

It not being filling is opinion, but limited vulnerability is pretty creative. I mean, look how much trouble he still has in his fights.

Polygon

@Buccaneer:

Same way his body allows him to deflect lightning altogether, ask Oda.

**He can "deflect" lighting because his whole body is an insulator. And this in is no way similar to luffy taking hits.

And rubber CAN break. It can be pulled apart for one.

If you have a rubber wall it can be broken by a blunt object. If something has enoughf force behind it. I don't see why luffy should be any differant. He is rubber that can feel. He feels it when someone touches him. So he feels pain if hit hard enoughf.**

It not being filling is opinion, but limited vulnerability is pretty creative. I mean, look how much trouble he still has in his fights.

I know kow creative Oda is. But it would be lame if he didn't feel pain unless something broke his skin.

Buccaneer

@Octogon:

**He can "deflect" lighting because his whole body is an insulator. And this in is no way similar to luffy taking hits.

And rubber CAN break. It can be pulled apart for one.

If you have a rubber wall it can be broken by a blunt object. If something has enoughf force behind it. I don't see why luffy should be any differant. He is rubber that can feel. He feels it when someone touches him. So he feels pain if hit hard enoughf.**

The insulator thing is bullshit, y'know? Lightning would honestly melt rubber. But Oda bent the extent of his properties to make him immune to lightning altogether. Same way, he may feel, but there's no effect on his body. I'm not saying anything he hasn't directly said himself.

Polygon

@Buccaneer:

The insulator thing is bullshit, y'know? Lightning would honestly melt rubber. But Oda bent the extent of his properties to make him immune to lightning altogether.

**You know humans can make there skin harder. Ever think that maybe because of luffys training and fights his body also hardned enoughf to handle the electricity? Thats what I always though happned.

And even if Oda stretched the insulater. the fact still stands that is the reaon enel's electricity won't effect him.**

Same way, he may feel, but there's no effect on his body. I'm not saying anything he hasn't directly said himself.

**I seriously doubt luffy has been hit with the force of someone like whitebeard. He never set foot on the grandline at the time.

Thats the equivlent of Robins statment about strengh being obsolete against her. No matter how you look at it she has normal strengh. And with enough raw power, one can oversome her arms.

These characters aren't always right.

If you grew up being rubber. and nothing exept blades could hurt you. but you only stayed in you village. and fought against people you knew your whole life. what wold you think?**

Buccaneer

@Octogon:

**You know humans can make there skin harder. Ever think that maybe because of luffys training and fights his body also hardned enoughf to handle the electricity? Thats what I always though happned.
That would invalidate Nami's win over Calipha. And besides, that wasn't actually implied anywhere.

And even if Oda stretched the insulater. the fact still stands that is the reaon enel's electricity won't effect him.

And even if Oda stretched the durability of rubber. The fact still stands that is the reason Anyone's "normal blows" won't affect him.**

**> I seriously doubt luffy has been hit with the force of someone like whitebeard. He never set foot on the grandline at the time.

….Whitebeard has nothing to do with anything. Please don't mention him, as he has no role in Luffy's life so far and hasn't demonstarted any abilities yet.

Thats the equivlent of Robins statment about strengh being obsolete against her. No matter how you look at it she has normal strengh. And with enough raw power, one can oversome her arms.

No, it's more the equivalent of a character saying "I won't lose." It's an assumption about what she's up against, not about her own body.

These characters aren't always right.

10 years with a rubber body, I'd like to think he's at least right about himself, if anything.

If you grew up being rubber. and nothing exept blades could hurt you. but you only stayed in you village. and fought against people you knew your whole life. what wold you think?

The thing about Luffy is that we have no idea what he went through growing up.**

Polygon

**Yo u obviously aren't going to change your mind, even if it makes no sense.

And I just checked when Alvida hit luffy. All he says is that it's useless because I'm rubber. I don't know where you got the idea that ALL blunt attacks are useless against him.**

Cr4zy

@onemoment:

I'm curious about how Chopper will change after this arc. Will the crew keep this form a secret, or will Chopper find out, and how will he react?

Um, I think Chopper all ready knows about this. Re-read one of the chapters; theres a flashback with Kureha and about Chopper destorying a village.

Buccaneer

@Octogon:

Yo u obviously aren't going to change your mind, even if it makes no sense.

**Luffy being invulnerable to lightning makes no sense either, no matter how you look at it. Neither does Sanji spinning around so that his legs burn and grow stronger. Certain things you kinda have to just accept.

And I just checked when Alvida hit luffy. All he says is that it's useless because I'm rubber. I don't know where you got the idea that ALL blunt attacks are useless against him.**
Think about that one. Would Sanji or Zoro be unaffected? She may be a shitty fighter, but that by no means stops her hits from being effective. Also, refer to scenes like Luffy getting hit with impact.

Polygon

@Buccaneer:

**Luffy being invulnerable to lightning makes no sense either, no matter how you look at it. Neither does Sanji spinning around so that his legs burn and grow stronger. Certain things you kinda have to just accept.

But it makes perfect sense that he can get more rubbery over the years.**

Think about that one. Would Sanji or Zoro be unaffected? She may be a shitty fighter, but that by no means stops her hits from being effective. Also, refer to scenes like Luffy getting hit with impact.

**So? Sure zoro would be affected, because his head is made of something else. and a clob is intended to smash thigs. You can't smash rubber. No where does it imply that luffy feels no pain from blunt objects.

And how about ussops impact dial? that sure as hell did hurt to luffy.**

Vanessa

The impact dial does internal damage to the body, so I wouldn't consider it a "blunt" attack.

TheSonofBattles

So a thread I started to stop a diversion from completely offrailing another thread goes completely off the rails itself clap clap clap clap

I don't know if thats irony or just plain idiocy.

But anyways, I agree, Luffy feels pain even from blunt force attacks, regardless of whether or not they break him. And that this seems implicit through the entire run of the manga.

There's not much to base it on, and I'm not going to argue it in a thread about something completely differant, but I disagree with Buccaneer and he disagree's with everyone else. Thats enough. Its over, for here at least.

Regards Chopper, I suggested earlier that he'd research and concoct a new type of Rumble Ball before the next arc that would allow at least marginal control over his Monster Point, but does anyone else have any idea's as to how he's going to learn to live with it, and more importantly fight with it?

Vanessa

With the Monster Point? I think it'll be some time before he can come up with something that'll be able to control it. Since he also did it way back in that Drum flashback, I would guess he's been trying to figure out the whole deal with it. As of now, he's still had no luck in discovering how Monster Point actually works.

On the case with the rumble balls, I remember someone mentioning how the effects of the rumble balls will become permanent on Chopper himself so he wouldn't need to keep using them. Something about having have used a substance for so long that the body will adapt and bring out the desrired effect on its own. If that ever does occur, I think it'll give Chopper a chance to focus on learning techniques since he won't have to worry as much about a time limit.

TheSonofBattles

Chopper = Obelix, eh? :ohmy:

The secret is out.

Anyways yea, that sounds entirely plausible as well. However, your point that Chopper hasn't found a solution yet doesn't sound entirely right to me. You say he's been looking for years, but I don't think he has. I think once he discovered what happened, and Dr. Kureha warned him about it, he just left well enough alone till he fought Kumadori because (a) he was scared of it, (b) Dr. Kureha could be hurt by it, not to mention everyone else on the island and there was no need to follow up on it till now.

Vanessa

Yeah I see your point. He would'nt use it for the danger he'd cause to the others around him. I just figured he'd try to do research on why the transformation occurred in the first place. Like he'd research the ingredients in the rumble ball to figure out if there was anything in there that would make his makeup to go out of control, hence the transformation. Whie it's true he wouldn't want to hurt the poeple. I just figure he'd want to figure out how to "tame the beast" so to speak.

TheSonofBattles

Yea, thats true as well, I guess its just down to picking up the way it was said differantly due to mentality. Both possibilities seem quite likely now that you point it out.

I'm still interested to see what others have to say or suggest on the matter of course.

Bounty1Berry

What makes Choppzilla an interesting foil is his "unconsciousness".

A Strawhat will probably go easy on Choppzilla as a friend, or at least in a manner of going up the scale, while Choppzilla will mindlessly trample anything equally hard, friend or foe.

Beowulf89

Rumble Balls work by "disrupting the wave" of Chopper's transformation, his "zoa zoa" (if you will) energy, he said this himself when he was introduced.
The first one lets him control his "mutant" forms. It maybe that this disruption is the reason he can only keep it up for three minutes, his body wasn't meant to operate at those levels and it could harm him otherwise.
The second ball disrupts his control over the forms, they begin to show up randomly whenever he attempts to change. I don't know how zoans control their powers if its tensing a muscle or a mental command or what. I don't remember how long the second one lasted either… hmm.
The third ball... before I go further, do we know what the first attempt looked like? I have a theory that "monster point" is different each time. Anyway the third ball maxes out his "zoa zoa" wave energy creating the strongest possible combination of forms but reducing his control to nothing letting him rely merely on instinct. Also, his body apparently can't handle that big of a disruption of his zoa zoa energy which is why Zoro thought he would die if he wasn't stopped.

Oh, one question: Chopper can speak... human? english? common? Because of his fruit right? Can other zoans speak... animal?

TheSonofBattles

@Beowulf89:

Chopper Theory

I like. Best way I've seen it explained yet.

We never did see his first time transformation though. Which in itself could be ammo for the theory that its differant each time. But if it just combined differant aspects to make the strongest of each as you say, then it'd be the same every time no?

Or do you mean that it makes the strongest possible form by combining the strengths of a limited number of forms?

@Beowulf89:

Oh, one question: Chopper can speak… human? english? common? Because of his fruit right? Can other zoans speak... animal?

Maybe he picked up english by hanging around settlements and attempting it on his own. I can't remember if it showed him knowing it instinctively, or if he only had the potential and learned it on his own.

Dr.Chopper

Well, if you take this into consideration…
During his last controntation with Kumadori (while still consious) he meantioned that he read about biofeedback (more commonly know as Life Feedback).
Now i'm not betting that he would do this, but this certainly could be something that could allow him to control every single molecule in his body.
Though, i kind of doubt he'd try to learn this technique, i think it's totally possible to control his forms that way.
As far as controlling Monster Point goes... i dont think Chopper would ever do it. I'm sure he'll find a way to control his wave-lengths after a second intake... but seeing as how Oda portrays it, Monster is meant to remain a senseless... "monster". Feel free to prove me wrong though.

Polygon

**Sorry to everyone for going so of topic.


tThe rumble ball controls the waves of his DF. And it probaley alters them to get the extra transformations. And it is speculated by some people that each fruit has a "soul". Could monster point bring ou that soul?**