Zoro's upgrade (provided he does get one) may just be the ability to bring forth the power to cut steel at will, so he doesn't have to be near death to do it.
Chapter 415 "Heat Increase" Discussion
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It's good that Sanji had this fight I think.. Gives him a chance to have a fight against a powerful foe. It seems like the last powerful foe was Mr. 2 wayyy back..
Loved the chapter ;)
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Man this chapter was great. So is Jyabura down and knocked out or is it still like the Super hammer punch on fukurou. One thing I was really worried about while i was waiting for the chapter to come out is if sanji would get beaten up bad by jyabura like by mr.2 and kuroobi. It didnt sound like he was in the spoiler, glad to know that changed. I don't know why he didn't pull that out on the sea train tho and could have owned blueno there. He probably would have gotten robin back if he had used it on Blueno.
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Nah. She wouldn't have agreed to follow him.
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Thanks! This chapter was great! Can't wait to see the look on Spandam's face after all CP9 are defeated (which will probably be around 420).
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I don't know why he didn't pull that out on the sea train tho and could have owned blueno there. He probably would have gotten robin back if he had used it on Blueno.
This is what I thought: http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=287658&postcount=233
Take it or leave it. :P
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So how is Sanji going to manage to look cool when he lights his cigarette with his hot leg? I just cannot picture it in my mind without him looking really funny.
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I don't have much to say except the usual "this chapter was great." except that I think the most obvious Sanji-nick has been missed: "Hot Foot" Sanji.
Heh, maybe that'll be his name on the bounty, if he gets one.
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Gotta love the power of that kick….
Hopefully Sanji gets a bounty after this arc.. He needs to be recognized for his badass skills...
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I've figured out why this chapter never blew me away. i was waiting for it for so long that i had all these hopes, not even expectations and it never even began to meet any.
Sanji's exhibited zero new abilities, ok he's a little faster but that's it, i will have to check again to see if he really did Geppou but even then? he's basically doing the same old stuff, faster and harder but showed no real growth. alot of this is to do with the fact that i never doubted his strength and i get that. but i still wanted to see something new, something he's never done before like a long-range attack and i never got that.
It's a nice chapter and reaffirms his strength, the ease of which he dealt with Jyabura and the speed of the fight show's that he's truly up there on a par with Zoro. But nothing to really make me think "oh god damn, he's stronger than zoro" until zoro's fight concludes.
However i guess, the next chapter really does have the ability to make this something special. and btw Sanji is a terrible martial artist, aren't you taught never to hold back? :P
All in all, nothing changed for Sanji; we know he's incredibly strong, we know he has an obscene amount of stamina and endurance. we know he's the quickest mugiwara. but nothing new.
Can't wait for the dialogue though.
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I was expecting Sanji to actually break tekkai with raw kicking power. My first thoughts on the flame kick was that it wasn't really Sanji-esque of a move. He always used regular kicks of varying strength to get the job done, and felt that the fire thing was out of place for him. But then, after around 10 minutes, I realized that if he did break tekkai with raw kicking power, I wouldn't be as surprised as I was with this move. So in the end, the fire kick was the last thing I expected and I think it works juuuuust fine (I was/am a firm non-believer of SanjixRankyaku, and never thought he'd get an elemental attack).
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I think his fire kick which blew Jab away could be a lon ranged move. look how the flames are moving after Jab… I dont understand why some of you are a bit dissapointet. Zoro cannon moves aren´t that special to but everybosy screams... hell yeah a long range move!!! For me Sanji haven´t to get a move cause so he will be different form the others. He has his lighning speed and his dodging abilty to be unique
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I was expecting Sanji to actually break tekkai with raw kicking power. My first thoughts on the flame kick was that it wasn't really Sanji-esque of a move. He always used regular kicks of varying strength to get the job done, and felt that the fire thing was out of place for him. But then, after around 10 minutes, I realized that if he did break tekkai with raw kicking power, I wouldn't be as surprised as I was with this move. So in the end, the fire kick was the last thing I expected and I think it works juuuuust fine (I was/am a firm non-believer of SanjixRankyaku, and never thought he'd get an elemental attack).
Its jus the further evolution of him as a fighting cook. He uses his legs because he cannot/willnot use his hands, and before his attacks were mainly oriented around tenderizing, and now they are about cooking with his flame feet.
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So now Sanji can beat his opponents AND cook them at the same time? Luffy will never go hungry again!
So what's the enxt stage then…garnishing? That ought to produce some very interesting moves hehe.
Offtopic: 100 posts woot!!
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blah wolf meat is good..Giraffe meat? mmh never tried it..They are in a zoo.. i'm sure he can find something/someone to cook :p
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Some thoughts:
-Sanji possibly got his "hot-kick" idea from Wanze's roller-blades (they did almost the same thing, just retarded instead of badass like Sanji)
-Zoro's upgrade might be the power to deflect a full-on rankyaku (I don't think he's done that)
-Sanji owns you
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This post is deleted!
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So now Sanji can beat his opponents AND cook them at the same time? Luffy will never go hungry again!
So what's the enxt stage then…garnishing? That ought to produce some very interesting moves hehe.
Offtopic: 100 posts woot!!
Maybe his next evolution will involve tossing and stirring his opponents around via combination attacks ^^.
BTW, does anyone else find it a little disconcerting that Chopper was able to penetrate the tekkai barrier with his strength alone while Sanji needed fire to help him break tekkai? Perhaps steel breaking is reserved for later. Can't have Sanji surpassing Zeff just yet I suppose. Still, it would mean that Chopper is in some respects stronger than Sanji when it comes to pure physical attacks.
Perhaps Oda always meant for Chopper to be a greater powerhouse than Sanji or maybe even Luffy, but for short periods of time. In RPG terms, Chopper would be like a berserker class character, able to demonstrate short bursts of tremendous strength and energy but at the great expense of health and endurance. I guess I'm still trying to figure out where Oda is trying to go with Chopper as a fighter.
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If you look at Chopper in RPG terms he's not a fighter class, he's support…
Anyway, Sanji does show improvement with his fire-kick but he will never be equal in strenght to Zorro because his goal isn't as high!
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Meh, if you look back, Arm point Chopper always equaled 1 hit ko, until he met Kumadori - not that he fought much before that (which I think is why people were so surprised at his strenght).
But, I mean, picture Chopper doing a Sakura Storm (?) on mr. 2, then see if he gets up. -
I also think that has to do with opponents. Jyabura's tekkai is probably quite a bit more powerful than Kumadori's. Sanji is stronger than Chopper.
What I believe will happen next chapter, Sanji will land, and Jyabura will be lying down in human form. They talk for a minute, and Jabs curses Kaku to lose (after all, if Kaku won, how would that make him look?). Then Sanji realizes his pants are on fire and runs screaming. We also might see some of the Franky/Lucci/Luffy situation going on, or the Buster call. The end of the chapter will commence Kaku and Zoro's fight officially.
Also, who won the popularity contest? I'm assuming Luffy, but I haven't seen the top 6 yet. Yeah, Kaku got 9th! And how did Mihawk score so high? Is he really that popular?
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I always figured Franky + Chopper were clerics/dual class type characters. They use a wide variety of fighting techniques to overcome an opponent rather than using just one at its fullest power.
What is it with this obsession of flying/ranged attacks? Do you guys really want this to turn into DBZ?… don't answer that.
Sanji is just fine as a melee fighter, he doesn't need to have a ranged attack, his speed more than makes up for his ranged inadequecies. Besides with Luffys gear 2 that now makes everyone except for Sanji and Chopper have a ranged attack. There really is no need to have everyone use one, if another crewmember can step in and take care of the opponent with a ranged attack then so be it. That's what Sanji was trying to convey last chapter, they don't all have to be Super Saiyans to win every fight, they can step aside and let someone else fight for them if the situation fits.Chopper has also always been a power fighter, same goes for Luffy. Sanji and Zoro have tended to go more for skill usage (attacks based on their fighting style) to defeat opponents rather than pure physical strength. So I have no problem if 3 of Choppers form can break Tekkai, Sanji showed he could break it as well (I'm sure much better at this point) without his new technique (Blueno) and since he's gotten stronger since then I don't see why he couldn't break Tekkai without the technique now. Although I don't see why this need to break Tekkai to prove strength has arisen. Nami can't break Tekkai, but she defeated her opponent, does that make her weak? (rhetorical)
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I always figured Chopper's Arm Point hits were about as strong if not stronger than Sanji's kicks, and plus it was his very best attack.
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well, chopper's arm point is supposed to be really strong to begin with, right? i understand what you're saying though. sanji's kicks SHOULD be stronger than chopper's strongest attacks, because he's a much more experienced and talented fighter. but if chopper couldn't break tekkai, then the whole story would have been different.
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You also have to consider that Chopper's strongest attacks have a 3 minute limit, where as Sanji can fight all day (Davy Back Fight) with his strongest attacks.
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I don't know what to think of the power hiaerarchy at the moment…I mean the Doriki levels have totally fudget it up.
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Chopper could only break Tekkai with his strongest attack, and that only seemed to have about the same effect as when Franky just punched Fukurou after powering up. Franky is way stronger than Chopper. He can break Tekkai at his lowerst possible state. And in his lowest possible state, he was matching Fukurou blow for blow. He is about as strong as Gearless Luffy, I'd say. He was beating Luffy in Water 7, at least.
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If there had beena rematch, Luffy woulda kicked Franky's ass. But yeah, Franky's strength is right up there with Sanji and Zoro.
Although what Lucci said about Zoans building their physical strength…with training Chopper can become stronger. -
@The:
I don't know what to think of the power hiaerarchy at the moment…I mean the Doriki levels have totally fudget it up.
How's so? For the moment the matchups perfectly fit with the Strawhats supposed power ranking. Except for Franky of course.
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Well, I just found it strange that Chopper obliterates Kumadoris' tekkai Gou (I'd like to stress that) While Luffy broke Bluenos while in gear 2. And that Luffy faught evenly with Blueno while in gear 1, and fights evenly with Lucchi at gear 1.
I guess what bugs me is that everyone seems to be able to kick "base" Luffys' ass now. -
@The:
Well, I just found it strange that Chopper obliterates Kumadoris' tekkai Gou (I'd like to stress that) While Luffy broke Bluenos while in gear 2. And that Luffy faught evenly with Blueno while in gear 1, and fights evenly with Lucchi at gear 1.
I guess what bugs me is that everyone seems to be able to kick "base" Luffys' ass now.It looked to me like luffys was almost "playing" with blueno and used him just to test out gear 2.
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Theres' no doubt that Gear 2 Luffy obliterated Blueno. But they were fairly matched before that. What annoys me is that we see the other Straw hats beating up people as strong or stronger than someone Normal Luffy tied against.
I know that with the gears Luffy is still strongest…but all the others being that strong makes the "old Luffy" look bad, Imo -
I agree. In my opinion, Luffy was easily overpowering Blueno before Gear 2, and went Gear 2 to both test it, and wrap things up quickly.
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Yah, the only time that Luffy was ever really losing during the Blueno fight was when he got trapped by the Door trick, which only lasted a few seconds. Other than that, Luffy was in complete control during that match, he just didn't have enough firepower to finish off Blueno quickly until Gear 2…..
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@IT'S:
If there had beena rematch, Luffy woulda kicked Franky's ass. But yeah, Franky's strength is right up there with Sanji and Zoro.
Although what Lucci said about Zoans building their physical strength…with training Chopper can become stronger.Franky didn't have any problems when he dealt with Blueno in the secret hiding place for the Franky family: http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-2/chapter352.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2837
After all Blueno became desperate enough to forget the plan and aimed to kill him: http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-2/chapter352.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2838In pure physical strength I believe he is stronger than both Sanji and Zorro, but never the less this discussions are quite stupid. After all until Oda tell us which one are the strongest it will just be speculations, but we need to discuss something….... ;)
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Chopper could only break Tekkai with his strongest attack, and that only seemed to have about the same effect as when Franky just punched Fukurou after powering up. Franky is way stronger than Chopper. He can break Tekkai at his lowerst possible state. And in his lowest possible state, he was matching Fukurou blow for blow. He is about as strong as Gearless Luffy, I'd say. He was beating Luffy in Water 7, at least.
Franky was able to break tekkai because his fists were made of steel. It says nothing of his raw physical power. It's analogous to the following. In boxing terms, suppose a boxer stuffs his gloves with metal bricks and KO's the other guy with this dirty cheat. Does this mean he's stronger than the guy he knocked out? Is it even a fair fight? Rhetorical question of course. So you can't really use Franky as a way of saying, "since Franky broke tekkai easily, Franky > Chopper, and since Sanji > Franky we can conclude by direct inference that Sanji > Chopper" or something to that effect.
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@The:
Theres' no doubt that Gear 2 Luffy obliterated Blueno. But they were fairly matched before that.
**I don't remember Luffy going through much trouble at all. And we know Luffy only fights at his max when he has a reason to. He had no real grudge against Blueno. But he has a real reason to fight Lucchi.
I don't recall Luffy taking any real damage from Blueno.**
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@IT'S:
Although what Lucci said about Zoans building their physical strength…with training Chopper can become stronger.
I'm glad you brought this up. IMHO, Zoan users are intended to represent the main powerhouse characters of the One Piece world, moreso than Logia or Paramecia users. That's where their main advantage lies. With that said, I think Chopper by the end of the series might find raw physical strength to rival even Luffy's raw physical strength. Though if this happens, Chopper will probably still retain the time limit to his different forms so as to not overshadow the strength of the main character (you can't have that of course ^^). As long as an opponent can manage to avoid/survive whatever uber form Chopper happens to be in for some set amount of time, he can still be taken down relatively easily.
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Precisely. Chopper could someday rival Jabura, or even Lucci (MANY MANY chapters down the road). The more they build up, the bigger their zoan form gets, though. Notice how huge Kaku, Jabura, and Lucci are when in zoan form as compared to, say, Dalton, Chopper, etc.
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@IT'S:
Precisely. Chopper could someday rival Jabura, or even Lucci (MANY MANY chapters down the road). The more they build up, the bigger their zoan form gets, though. Notice how huge Kaku, Jabura, and Lucci are when in zoan form as compared to, say, Dalton, Chopper, etc.
I don't know what you mean by could. It's obvious that there will be a time where Chopper would be strong enoughf to obliterate people like lucchi easily.
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@Octogon:
I don't know what you mean by could. It's obvious that there will be a time where Chopper would be strong enoughf to obliterate people like lucchi easily.
And with time, his Heavy Point might even get as big as Monster Point. Well, almost as big.
Slightly off-topic: who thinks Usopp will fight Spandam? They're both weaklings who depend on their weapons to fight. I.e., Funkfried vs. Kabuto. Cool, no?
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@IT'S:
And with time, his Heavy Point might even get as big as Monster Point. Well, almost as big.
I don't know about that big, but it will probaley be stronger.
Slightly off-topic: who thinks Usopp will fight Spandam? They're both weaklings who depend on their weapons to fight. I.e., Funkfried vs. Kabuto. Cool, no?
I think they will. but if they do I hope Spandam has some powerful tricks up his sleeve.
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We haven't really seen what Funkfried has to offer yet. It's kinda like Jabura before his fight with Sanji. He doesn't seem like he has anything special but then he pulls out kick-ass shit like Tekkai Kenpo and Ten Shigan, and Wolf Spirit rankyaku.
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@IT'S:
Slightly off-topic: who thinks Usopp will fight Spandam?
Yeah I think they'll fight.
Cool, no?
Well… No.
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Huh? What does that mean?
I'm waiting for the day Chopper says, "I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer!"Funkfried could whip with his trunk, stomp, smash, morph into a sword…it'll be Usopp's best fight since Mr. 4!
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I'd much rather see Franky fight Spandam, personally.
Franky was able to break tekkai because his fists were made of steel. It says nothing of his raw physical power. It's analogous to the following. In boxing terms, suppose a boxer stuffs his gloves with metal bricks and KO's the other guy with this dirty cheat. Does this mean he's stronger than the guy he knocked out? Is it even a fair fight? Rhetorical question of course. So you can't really use Franky as a way of saying, "since Franky broke tekkai easily, Franky > Chopper, and since Sanji > Franky we can conclude by direct inference that Sanji > Chopper" or something to that effect.
That's a rather poor analogy.
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Well if Usopp does end up fighting Spandam, he better be very very clever with what he does. Otherwise Usopp beating him just wouldn't be very impressive. Hopefully he's like an evil Usopp, weak physically but is smart with his resources. Man, all these "who vs who" fight talks are Luffy's fault, if only he didnt take out Blueno then everyone would've had a damn fight….
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The way I see it, Spandam is pretty much an evil Usopp. Just more cowardly.
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Franky was able to break tekkai because his fists were made of steel. It says nothing of his raw physical power. It's analogous to the following. In boxing terms, suppose a boxer stuffs his gloves with metal bricks and KO's the other guy with this dirty cheat. Does this mean he's stronger than the guy he knocked out? Is it even a fair fight? Rhetorical question of course. So you can't really use Franky as a way of saying, "since Franky broke tekkai easily, Franky > Chopper, and since Sanji > Franky we can conclude by direct inference that Sanji > Chopper" or something to that effect.
Yes, Franky is made of Steel. But, if he was weak and he was made of steel, do you really think that his punch would be able to do any damage to Fukurou? Just being made out of Steel isn't his only reason for being able to break Tekkai. There must be a strong force behind the punch, also. Therefor, Franky is phyically strong, at least. Also, him being made out of Steel makes his punches stronger, not in phyical strength, but in power, and damage.
And who says that Sanji is stronger than Franky…? And Sanji being stronger than Franky is a given, seeing as in Spypiea, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji and Robin were not allowed to blow the whistle, because they were too strong.
Also, saying something like, "It's because Franky is steel" isn't fair. Him being made of steel is like Chopper having a DF. That's just part of his body, and fighting style. I could say, "if Chopper didn't have a DF, he'd never even be able to break teekai", just like you say, "If Franky wasn't made of steel, he wouldn't have broken Tekkai".
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@Cap'n:
That's a rather poor analogy.
Care to explain why? OK, maybe I could have worded it a little better. "Does this mean he's stronger than the guy he knocked out?" is really asking, if Franky did not have his steel hands/arms could you say he'd be strong enough to break tekkai? Other than that, I can't find any reason why the analogy wouldn't apply.
Just to make the analogy even more apt, let's make it so that the opponent is wearing armor to account for CP9's tekkai. And instead of a glove filled with metal bricks, let's have the boxer use a heavy steel gauntlet instead. A punch with the gauntlet will break/dent the armor far easier than a bare fisted punch would. So the point still stands. Franky's steel arms/hands give him an unfair advantage that Sanji and Chopper (who rely on the force of their own flesh and bones fists, or in Sanji's case, feet to hit an opponent) do not have. You can't judge whether Sanji's attacks are stronger than Chopper's based on the fact that Franky could easily break tekkai.