Luffy & Zoro (Potential Spoilers)

[ONEinchPUNCH]

@Archtyrant:

No one's saying that Oda is lying (c'mon did you think we'd really think that?). What we've been saying all this whole time is that the chart will not detect any marginal differences in strength. I don't get whats so damn hard to understand about that.

From what you say people can get the impression of Oda trying to mislead people, by showing information in an inaccurate way.

I know you're saying that since both got a 6 therefore they must be equal. Your prelying assumption here is that the values recorded were exact to like 10 decimal places or something.

No, I'm saying Oda had the power to stop zoro on 5.5. Now since he didn't, it must mean zoro is worth a 6.

And yes when i said decimal places i do mean the subdivisions, or lines like you call them. What we're saying is that 6 is more of a rounded off figure than an exact value.

What I'm saying is the chart cannot be rounded off because it has the ability to show 0.5

And no, I, or maybe we, think that showing the a 5.5 on the chart without drawing out the appropriate subdivisions will just make your chart look weird, or look misprinted.

I see this as a very misinformed statement.

Many graphs have their bars stopping inbetween two lines (subdivisions) so I completely disagree that using this method would make it look weird.

What's so difficult to understand? Or is it that you MUST always have it your way? There's no way we can prove except through asking Oda, but neither can you actually disprove us at all.

You forget everything I'm saying IS in clear view when you read that chart. While everything you say is a POSSIBILITY I didn't say it wasn't possible. I'm saying your FACTS are nonexistent, while the graphs subdivisions and total score are in clear view.

Saying I cannot prove that the charts maximum score is 6 and that the bar can be stopped in any position. Is rubbish because it's in clear view, I'm sure you cannot show me anything that proves your theory

[Kma]

@Archtyrant:

No one's saying that Oda is lying (c'mon did you think we'd really think that?). What we've been saying all this whole time is that the chart will not detect any marginal differences in strength. I don't get whats so damn hard to understand about that. I know you're saying that since both got a 6 therefore they must be equal. Your prelying assumption here is that the values recorded were exact to like 10 decimal places or something. And yes when i said decimal places i do mean the subdivisions, or lines like you call them. What we're saying is that 6 is more of a rounded off figure than an exact value. And no, I, or maybe we, think that showing the a 5.5 on the chart without drawing out the appropriate subdivisions will just make your chart look weird, or look misprinted.

What's so difficult to understand? Or is it that you MUST always have it your way? There's no way we can prove except through asking Oda, but neither can you actually disprove us at all.

To SuperStar: I think ysn was supporting your cause if you didn't read his post properly. It just goes to show how much effort you put into really udnerstanding one's post.

To Kma: I'm not sure if you're aiming that at me but it doesn't matter. I agree that equality can exist. I always supported Shanks being equal in fighting ability to Mihawk. But, there are reasons why I believe Luffy is stronger than Zoro, and I think you already understood my stand from my previous posts, because i don't feel like restating them here.

Whiskey peak ended in a draw, I agree Luffy was serious there, but there was one thing about it: the fight ended PREMATURELY. So there was no way to tell who'd win. Like the fight between Luffy and Lucci, you wouldn't guess Luffy would win (from the standpoint of a character in the One Piece; he was constantly getting beat up) until the end of the fight.

And if you did take the Whiskey Peak incident to be true, then you must take the Data Book to have up-to-date information: That Luffy is the (currently from publising of Data Book) No.1 strongest from East Blue. So fervent followers of the Data book, what do you have to say about that? Or don't tell me that line is a lie from Oda?

No it wasnt aimed at you but since you asked me some stuff…

Just wondering do you know how to read Japanese? Im pretty sure it translates to The Meanest Man in the East (東一番の悪, Higashi Ichi-Ban no Waru, lit. The Greatest Evil in the East)
Damn I wish I could read Jap…
its also the chapter title for chapter 96, when his bounty gets published

even so didnt Ace come from East Blue?
and like you said in your post before, they are in the GL now so it dosent matter. Ace is in the Grand Line too, yet Luffy still has that title, and Im pretty sure Ace would have owned Luffy. (we dont know the birthplaces, of Dragon and Garp)

Also the fight ended prematurely but it was equal for both sides was it not? Then how do you conclude that Luffy was going to win?

Also I just want to say this again, whos stronger changes from time to time. Take a look at Skypia, Zoro took down Ohm with relative ease. Luffy, Sanji, Usopp had trouble with Satori, a much weaker priest (if you go by their survival rate in the forest.)

Also Oda has shown to be clear on who is stronger. I mean he gave Ohm 1%, and the bird guy (damn forgot name…) 3% even with the CP9, everyone except Lucci and Kalifa had VERY close values of Douriki between another person. Even if it was marginal, and negligible, thats pretty specific. This shows that Oda likes to be specific on who is considered, even slightly stronger. Yes 6 is a much smaller scale but who a chart can easily be filled partially to show a difference.

EDIT:
Like I said Archtyrant, that post wasnt aimed at you because you have shown your reasons of why you think Luffy > Zoro and I respect that. Still though if you asks questions I will try to reply with how I see it, but as i hypocritely (not even a word lol) Im going to try to not post here anymore.

[SuperStar]

@ONEinchPUNCH:

@Superstar He can't prove his theory even wit all da money in the world and even if he claims the 6s value is unknown. At least what we say in actually in the manga, whatever it be, it's there. While there isn't even a trace of $abz theory.

It's a damn shame that $abz can't prove his theories, because none of it is NEVER stated anywhere in the damn manga. I love how he tries to use all these numbers and calculations in a children's comic book where they have talking snails.

@Archtyrant:

To SuperStar: I think ysn was supporting your cause if you didn't read his post properly. It just goes to show how much effort you put into really udnerstanding one's post.

You missed this…......

@SuperStar:

Well, this guy ysn said the same damn thing OIP and I have been saying, $abz wit the money $ LOL!!!….......

It just goes to show how much effort YOU (Archtyrant) put into really understanding one's post.

No one's saying that Oda is lying (c'mon did you think we'd really think that?). What we've been saying all this whole time is that the chart will not detect any marginal differences in strength. I don't get whats so damn hard to understand about that. I know you're saying that since both got a 6 therefore they must be equal. Your prelying assumption here is that the values recorded were exact to like 10 decimal places or something. And yes when i said decimal places i do mean the subdivisions, or lines like you call them. What we're saying is that 6 is more of a rounded off figure than an exact value. And no, I, or maybe we, think that showing the a 5.5 on the chart without drawing out the appropriate subdivisions will just make your chart look weird, or look misprinted. What's so difficult to understand? Or is it that you MUST always have it your way? There's no way we can prove except through asking Oda, but neither can you actually disprove us at all.

Yes, we can disprove you. Oda is not going to use decimals and subdivisions in a children's comic book. One Piece is not that deep you are simply OVERANALYZING the data. The Data book is supposed to give the reader's accurate information concerning Oda's characters and world. It is simply YOU (Archtyrant and $abz) trying to use a theory that does not exist to prove Luffy's dominance. Otherwise you wouldn't be trying to make up information that does NOT exist in the DATA book. If Oda wanted all of that roudning and decimals in his DATA book he would have did exactly that (that is what a data book is for you know?:wassat: ). You need to understand the concept of storytelling and character data, I find it hard to believe that you guys would think that Oda would make his chart so damn meticulous where a damn reindeer is a doctor.

[Gorlom]

@Superstar:

Oda is not going to use decimals and subdivisions in a children's comic book. One Piece is not that deep you are simply OVERANALYZING the data. The Data book is supposed to give the reader's accurate information concerning Oda's characters and world.

doeesnt that mean that the numbers are rounded off?
why would oda bother to tell the readers about a marginal powerdifference if there was one?
personally i think that argument contradicts your point as much as it makes it.

it's a matter of opinion HOW accurate Oda tells their strenght and noone can prove otherwise.

Superstar really is this still worth discussing? cant we all just agree that it is possible that Luffy >, = and hell even < Zoro?

[SuperStar]

No, it simply means that Oda gave Luffy and Zoro a number for their strength. That number is 6, nothing more.

Edit: I agree with you Gorlom, I could care less if Luffy was more powerful than Zoro but that is NOT the case with the facts presented.

[Pants-eater]

It's almost as if we can't like characters and make our own little make believe interpretation of them without contradicting "canon" being called a fanboy or a somethingtard.

It's as if we're not allowed to have an OPINION about characters and say things that don't make sense about a comic that doesn't make sense. It's as if we're not allowed to enjoy it otherwise some arrogant asshole will come in and spout of bullshit about how his crazy, pseudo-scientific analysis of a japanese comic is somehow better than an opinion.

I personally think Sanji could kick Zoro's ass (literally) because I like Sanji and that's what I want to happen. Simply for that, someone will think lower of me. Which doesn't make any sense at all.

[Gorlom]

@Pants-eater:

It's almost as if we can't like characters and make our own little make believe interpretation of them without contradicting "canon" being called a fanboy or a somethingtard.

It's as if we're not allowed to have an OPINION about characters and say things that don't make sense about a comic that doesn't make sense. It's as if we're not allowed to enjoy it otherwise some arrogant asshole will come in and spout of bullshit about how his crazy, pseudo-scientific analysis of a japanese comic is somehow better than an opinion.

I personally think Sanji could kick Zoro's ass (literally) because I like Sanji and that's what I want to happen. Simply for that, someone will think lower of me. Which doesn't make any sense at all.

aint that the trueth

[Archtyrant]

.. Yeah.

I'm glad most people can see my point. I'm thankful to Gorlom, Pants-eater and Kma who just proved a few posts that that is so.

To OiP:
All things aside from now, i'm thankful you didn't try to insist your way MUST be right. But now,

It is also your THEORY that the chart can show it to a 0.5. You said charts in general can show figures accurate to 0.5 dp. But charts in mangas have never shown numbers that didn't completely fill up their divisions or sub-divisions. That is saying, your "it can show a 0.5" IS a theory on its own. So stop acting like everything we say is theory with no backing. Yours is also a theory which you cannot prove.

And besides, like i pointed out (Kma, read this too), the title to the left the graph DOES say (directly translated) "Currently his No.1 Strength in "East Blue" !". I understand it because I recognise the chinese characters in them. Don't ask me why it was included, what with Ace and all, but it's right there.

To SuperStar:
Oh yeah, that's right. It's true I don't put much effort in reading your posts ever since the first few times.

[Gaiyae]

@Pants-eater:

It's almost as if we can't like characters and make our own little make believe interpretation of them without contradicting "canon" being called a fanboy or a somethingtard.

It's as if we're not allowed to have an OPINION about characters and say things that don't make sense about a comic that doesn't make sense. It's as if we're not allowed to enjoy it otherwise some arrogant asshole will come in and spout of bullshit about how his crazy, pseudo-scientific analysis of a japanese comic is somehow better than an opinion.

I personally think Sanji could kick Zoro's ass (literally) because I like Sanji and that's what I want to happen. Simply for that, someone will think lower of me. Which doesn't make any sense at all.

So true..

One thing i really hate is when people say.
Luffy/Zoro > Against all the enemy's the other strawhats faced…
Like zoro being able to kill every enemy sanji beat etc.

[ONEinchPUNCH]

@Archtyrant:

To OiP:
All things aside from now, i'm thankful you didn't try to insist your way MUST be right. But now,

It isn't MY WAY it's what the graph shows, look at the graph and you'll see it isn't my way.

It is also your THEORY that the chart can show it to a 0.5. You said charts in general can show figures accurate to 0.5 dp.

No I'm saying that chart has the ability to show AT LEAST 0.5dp, look at the chart it has the ability to show 0.5dp. That is not theory becaus it's there, all you have to do is look at it.

But charts in mangas have never shown numbers that didn't completely fill up their divisions or sub-divisions. That is saying, your "it can show a 0.5" IS a theory on its own. So stop acting like everything we say is theory with no backing. Yours is also a theory which you cannot prove.

Just because subdivisions haven't been used in the manga's you've seen, it doesn't mean the chart doesn't have the ability to show them. You're arguing something else here, just because no-one has used subdivisions. It doesn't mean the chart cannot show them, just by looking at the chart you can see it can show 0.5.

While there is no trace of your theory, ANYWHERE

And besides, like i pointed out (Kma, read this too), the title to the left the graph DOES say (directly translated) "Currently his No.1 Strength in "East Blue" !". I understand it because I recognise the chinese characters in them. Don't ask me why it was included, what with Ace and all, but it's right there.

And? Is this supposed to prove the value of 6 isn't shown or that there is no possibility of 0.5?

To SuperStar:
Oh yeah, that's right. It's true I don't put much effort in reading your posts ever since the first few times.

Well that's why you miss some valid points, no wonder I have to repeat the same things.

@anyone accusing me or anyone else of saying "You can't have an opinion" What is this BS?

You can have whatever opinion you want, as long as you say that's your opinion. Now when people try and pass their opinion as fact there's a problem. Pants-eater THINKS sanji is better than zoro, that's fine. He didn't say something like "Buggy is the strongest man in the world" trying to pass it as fact.

[BlackGalleon1]

@Gaiyae:

Like zoro being able to kill every enemy sanji beat.

Well, technically…...he could. At east so far.

[Pants-eater]

This post is deleted!

[SuperStar]

This post is deleted!

[Pants-eater]

This post is deleted!

[Archtyrant]

… Pants-Eater, you're right. Some people are just too stuck in the mud to even realise themselves.

OiP, do you even know what you are saying? Or do you even understand what i'm saying? Look at your own post. You're saying that the chart HAS the ability to show 0.5, therefore Oda MUST show a 0.5 to distinguish any sort of difference. I'm saying the chart HAS the ability to show a 0.5, BUT Oda can EASILY not bother with using 0.5 to distinguish the difference. Like you said, it's possible to show the 0.5, but as with more mangakas, Oda Likely will not! You saying that Oda CAN do it is fact, but you saying that Oda WOULD HAVE done it is YOUR OWN interpretation. Just as me saying Oda WOULD NOT HAVE done it is mine, and i borrow experiences from reading other mangas to back me up. It's FINE if you disagree, but it's NOT fine if you keep insisting that my own interpretation of reading the chart MUST BE WRONG because no matter what you CAN'T prove that it is. You can't prove that Oda WILL use 0.5dp to distinguish small differences, because in all his charts he NEVER did so ONCE.

And I can't believe you don't even understand the implication of that line, that Luffy is the No.1 Strongest from East Blue currently. Given the fact that Oda didn't use that title on Zoro (he only gave him a "Infamous Swordsman sth sth i can't read the rest but it isn't related to strength"), it just leans the argument towards Luffy being stronger, if ever slightly if you must insist, than Zoro since Zoro entered the Grand Line at the same time with Luffy (unless you must argue that Zoro was about 1m behind Luffy when they went up the waterfall, i don't know i don't care), because the "strongest" title was only placed on Luffy and not on Zoro! Was it necessary to spell it all out?

Either way, it doesn't even matter now. Why I bothered arguing with you, i don't know, i suspect it's because i feel really insulted being as misunderstood as i am now.

If you going to argue line by line again, it'll just show you haven't understood a single word i was saying, and i'll ust say it now: I won't care about it anymore because it'd be just a huge waste of my time. You can go on ranting, you can go on and feel egoistic about me not replying, i don't care, it doesn't matter. Everyone who reads this knows what I'm saying, and it's your own problem if you leave a bad impression in their minds for not even understanding something so simple.

I am aware I might be leaving bad impressions on people's minds too for being so straightforward with my words, but sometimes I do get emotional too.

[Hawkeye]

Aye Caremba you still argueing about this? whats the point at this points Sabz they obviously wont listen until Oda says so and persoanlly i think thats very fair though i still personally think Luffy is a lot stronger

[ONEinchPUNCH]

@Archtyrant:

OiP, do you even know what you are saying? Or do you even understand what i'm saying? Look at your own post. You're saying that the chart HAS the ability to show 0.5, therefore Oda MUST show a 0.5 to distinguish any sort of difference. I'm saying the chart HAS the ability to show a 0.5, BUT Oda can EASILY not bother with using 0.5 to distinguish the difference. Like you said, it's possible to show the 0.5, but as with more mangakas, Oda Likely will not! You saying that Oda CAN do it is fact, but you saying that Oda WOULD HAVE done it is YOUR OWN interpretation. Just as me saying Oda WOULD NOT HAVE done it is mine, and i borrow experiences from reading other mangas to back me up. It's FINE if you disagree, but it's NOT fine if you keep insisting that my own interpretation of reading the chart MUST BE WRONG because no matter what you CAN'T prove that it is. You can't prove that Oda WILL use 0.5dp to distinguish small differences, because in all his charts he NEVER did so ONCE.

No matter what you say that chart has the ability to show 0.5dp, now you're twisting my words.

Listen carefully Mr "I'm going to write a page of BS, so I look smarter"

I said Oda HAD the power to stop that bar in whatever position he wanted, now nothing you can can change that. That graph has the ABILITY to that, now whether Oda uses a dp place or not doesn't matter. All that matters is that chart has the ABILITY to do so. Now here's the easy part Oda gave them both max, so by not using a dp he has made them equal.

an't believe you don't even understand the implication of that line, that Luffy is the No.1 Strongest from East Blue currently. Given the fact that Oda didn't use that title on Zoro (he only gave him a "Infamous Swordsman sth sth i can't read the rest but it isn't related to strength"), it just leans the argument towards Luffy being stronger, if ever slightly if you must insist, than Zoro since Zoro entered the Grand Line at the same time with Luffy (unless you must argue that Zoro was about 1m behind Luffy when they went up the waterfall, i don't know i don't care), because the "strongest" title was only placed on Luffy and not on Zoro! Was it necessary to spell it all out?

Whiskey peak is not east blue, my argument is backed up by a fight. Your argument is backed up by guess work.

going to argue line by line again, it'll just show you haven't understood a single word i was saying, and i'll ust say it now: I won't care about it anymore because it'd be just a huge waste of my time.

I could say the same thing about you.

ranting, you can go on and feel egoistic about me not replying, i don't care, it doesn't matter. Everyone who reads this knows what I'm saying, and it's your own problem if you leave a bad impression in their minds for not even understanding something so simple.

If anyone is ranting on this whole forum, it's you and you alone. If you haven't noticed the only people who agree with you are $abz, AD HD (but he agree's with everyone) and the young pants-eater.

Everyone else doesn't, so yeah lets leave it at that.

[Gaiyae]

@Archtyrant:

… Pants-Eater, you're right. Some people are just too stuck in the mud to even realise themselves.

OiP, do you even know what you are saying? Or do you even understand what i'm saying? Look at your own post. You're saying that the chart HAS the ability to show 0.5, therefore Oda MUST show a 0.5 to distinguish any sort of difference. I'm saying the chart HAS the ability to show a 0.5, BUT Oda can EASILY not bother with using 0.5 to distinguish the difference. Like you said, it's possible to show the 0.5, but as with more mangakas, Oda Likely will not! You saying that Oda CAN do it is fact, but you saying that Oda WOULD HAVE done it is YOUR OWN interpretation. Just as me saying Oda WOULD NOT HAVE done it is mine, and i borrow experiences from reading other mangas to back me up. It's FINE if you disagree, but it's NOT fine if you keep insisting that my own interpretation of reading the chart MUST BE WRONG because no matter what you CAN'T prove that it is. You can't prove that Oda WILL use 0.5dp to distinguish small differences, because in all his charts he NEVER did so ONCE.

OIP , do you even get that part..?
How can you ever know for 100% sure that ODA means Luffy and Zoro are equel and hand that down as a fact? That both of them have a 6, does this really mean they tie in battle , how do you know 100% sure. Was it ever litterly stated in that book? The only thing you could see it, as a hint.. but not as a clear fact.

A clear fact for me is Luffy always getting the best enemy's and Zoro the second. If Zoro is as strong as Luffy, why doesnt he get the stronger enemy for once? Only because Luffy is the protagonist..?

Ps.

its a bit hard for me to state my full opinion on this matter.. My english isnt that good :(

[SuperStar]

@Gaiyae:

OIP , do you even get that part..?
How can you ever know for 100% sure that ODA means Luffy and Zoro are equel and hand that down as a fact? That both of them have a 6, does this really mean they tie in battle , how do you know 100% sure. Was it ever litterly stated in that book? The only thing you could see it, as a hint.. but not as a clear fact.

Oh, I don't know, maybe because ONEinchPUNCH is going off the SAME strength stat that Oda gave Luffy and Zoro, which is BACKED up by the Whiskey Peak fight.

A clear fact for me is Luffy always getting the best enemy's and Zoro the second. If Zoro is as strong as Luffy, why doesnt he get the stronger enemy for once? Only because Luffy is the protagonist..?(

This is not true, The people Luffy has beaten Zoro would beat also, not to mention Zoro has fought and beaten opponents that Lufy would not beat (Mr. 1).

[ONEinchPUNCH]

@Gaiyae:

OIP , do you even get that part..?
How can you ever know for 100% sure that ODA means Luffy and Zoro are equel and hand that down as a fact? That both of them have a 6, does this really mean they tie in battle , how do you know 100% sure. Was it ever litterly stated in that book? The only thing you could see it, as a hint.. but not as a clear fact.

A clear fact for me is Luffy always getting the best enemy's and Zoro the second. If Zoro is as strong as Luffy, why doesnt he get the stronger enemy for once? Only because Luffy is the protagonist..?

Ps.

its a bit hard for me to state my full opinion on this matter.. My english isnt that good :(

You miss this?

Now here's the easy part Oda gave them both max, so by not using a dp he has made them equal.

So if it HAS the ABILITY show dp's yet Oda didn't, it means Oda has chosen 6 for each character. Even when presented with the possiblity of 5.5

[Gorlom]

@ONEinchPUNCH:

You miss this?

So if it HAS the ABILITY show dp's yet Oda didn't, it means Oda has chosen 6 for each character. Even when presented with the possiblity of 5.5

god OiP you really are missing the point arent you?
what if Oda didnt WANT to show decimals? doesnt matter if he had the possibility if he didnt want to clutter the graph.

that he had the possibility is not proof that he would if that was the case.

perhaps Oda got something in common with Mr 2 Bon Clay: the love for the word "ambigious".

[ONEinchPUNCH]

@Gorlom:

god OiP you really are missing the point arent you?
what if Oda didnt WANT to show decimals? doesnt matter if he had the possibility if he didnt want to clutter the graph.

that he had the possibility is not proof that he would if that was the case.

perhaps Oda got something in common with Mr 2 Bon Clay: the love for the word "ambigious".

Oh man…. This is the worst excuse so far

[SuperStar]

If Oda didn't include decimals in a DATA book, that means he didn't use them.

[Gorlom]

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Oh man…. This is the worst excuse so far

its on par with ALL the other crapp that has been sprouted in this thread.

just let it be already. noone can prove the otherone wrong and i belive that is how Oda wanted it… AMBIGIOUS!

[Pants-eater]

The chart was like this:

!

wasn't it?

Oda didn't measure Stretchiness in the chart, nor did he measure Intuition, Testosterone, Angriness, Determination, Accuracy etc

So the idea that one simple 6 states that every fucking thing is equal is retarded and stupid.

[Refii]

Pants was that meant to be a joke? Even if it wasn't I found it hilarious, nice.

[SuperStar]

@Pants-eater:

The chart was like this:

! http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1620/chartnb1.pngwasn't it?Oda didn't measure Stretchiness in the chart, nor did he measure Intuition, Testosterone, Angriness, Determination, Accuracy etc
So the idea that one simple 6 states that every fucking thing is equal is retarded and stupid.

Captain: Luffy D. Monkey*

Bounty: 100,000,000 Belly “Most Wanted Pirate in East Blue”
(Formerly 30,000,000 Belly)

Age: 17
Birthday: May 5th
Height: 172cm/5’7”
Sign: Taurus

Attributes-

• Adventuresome: 6
• Strength: 6
• Intelligence: 1
• Dexterity: 1
• Fashion Sense: 1
• Curiosity: 6

[Archtyrant]

Goodness..

Let's just leave it at that then.

Some people are just too egoistic to admit anything.

Hey guys thanks for backing me up, even those whose stand was about Luffy's and Zoro's relatvie strengths were different from mine, but still respected one's opinions.

I think we'd better just stop discussing this before we get another humiliating "closed" by the end of this thread.

One last thing to OiP: In the end, you lost all your credibility. That's all I wanna say.

Conclusion: I'm not claiming to be the best person for something like a conclusion to a debate, but here's mine:

The relative strengths of Luffy and Zoro cannot be accurately pinpointed due to a lack of sufficient material to actually prove their exact positions. Those who felt that they were equal in relative strengths cited the Whiskey Peak incident, the Red Data book chart and the relative ease that Zoro faced in defeated Kaku versus the difficulty that Luffy faced in beating Lucci. The arguments against this were that the chart used only a small range (1 to 6) to distinguish their relative strengths and thus it was only a good estimation and not a good precision, the Whiskey Peak incident happened long ago, and Lucci had twice the strength that Kaku had, while it did not seem that Zoro had twice the ease in defeating Kaku than Luffy did Lucci

Those who felt that Luffy was above Zoro in strength cited the fact that Luffy fought all the "Big Bosses" while Zoro fought the 2nd strongest in all the groups that the SHs have so far fought, and various other reasons. The arguments against this were that this did not necessarily mean that Zoro would lose to Luffy's opponents, only that Luffy had beaten them. While it was argued that Luffy was aiming for the top, that is being the Pirate King, it was also argued that being the Strongest Swordsman might also make you the strongest.

There were also those who said that Zoro would win in a fight since Luffy's weakness was with sharp objects. There were no counter-arguments, however, as this case was not often brought up.

As such, the only way to discern their strengths is through self-opinion.

My own conclusion: Most people presented their case with evidence, and argued well. There were times, however, when people chose to close their minds to all other interpretations but their own, and as such sparked fierce rebuttals from either sides.

Anyway i'm kinda sick now so I'll just stop here. Forgive me if i were too abrupt.

[Gaiyae]

@Pants-eater:

So the idea that one simple 6 states that every fucking thing is equal is retarded and stupid.

Well , dont go trying to convince OIP.. He thinks a battle that didnt even finish and a 6 determine the whole outcome between a battle of Luffy and Zoro.

But i got a question to OIP and Superstar:
Who is your favorite Strawhat?

[Pants-eater]

I personally think i's a matter of testosterone.

Halfway through, Luffy's manperiod might start up and he would shred Zoro with the power of MPMS.

*Captain: Luffy D. Monkey

Bounty: 100,000,000 Belly “Most Wanted Pirate in East Blue”
(Formerly 30,000,000 Belly)

Age: 17
Birthday: May 5th
Height: 172cm/5’7”
Sign: Taurus

• Attributes-
• Adventuresome: 6
• Strength: 6
• Intelligence: 1
• Dexterity: 1
• Fashion Sense: 1
• Curiosity: 6**

Screw you, you no-balled leech.

[ONEinchPUNCH]

@Archtyrant

Saying I have no credibility even though I always use fact from the manga, shows how much you have. Maybe when you stop making up theories and start using fact we'll be able to debate.

[SuperStar]

One last thing to OiP: In the end, you lost all your credibility. That's all I wanna say.

So, a guy can lose credibility for using facts from the Manga/Anime?:wassat:

@Gaiyae:

But i got a question to OIP and Superstar:
Who is your favorite Strawhat?

Monkey D. Luffy!!!

@Pants-eater:

Screw you, you no-balled leech.

[ONEinchPUNCH]

Originally Posted by Gaiyae
But i got a question to OIP and Superstar:
Who is your favorite Strawhat?

Monkey D Luffy!!!!

[SabZ]

OIP, you fail to understand that things that Oda hasn't said cannot be used as your arguement. Did Oda ever say they are equal? No. Did he make them fight to the finish and end it a draw? No. Did he explain his method of the chart just to clear up any speculation (Oda isn't stupid, he knows what his audience will think)? No.

The bars are at the same point… but I countered that earlier. Go read. 6 = 6... I countered that too. Go read.

You should at least get quotes from that post and counter them yourself.

[SuperStar]

@$abZ:

OIP, you fail to understand that things that Oda hasn't said cannot be used as your arguement. Did Oda ever say they are equal? No. Did he make them fight to the finish and end it a draw? No. Did he explain his method of the chart just to clear up any speculation (Oda isn't stupid, he knows what his audience will think)? No.

The bars are at the same point… but I countered that earlier. Go read. 6 = 6... I countered that too. Go read.

You should at least get quotes from that post and counter them yourself.

This is a terrible argument. Oda doesn't need to say they are equal, The Whiskey Peak fight which did END in a "DRAW!" proves your assumptions wrong. Not too mention Oda gave Luffy and Zoro the same damn stat for their strength. Oda knows that whatever he puts down his audience knows it is the ABSOLUTE truth, the Data book has the number 6 their because it is FINAL (don't you think Oda would have put the damn numbers, calculations and decimals in there since it is a DAMN DATA book)?

[ONEinchPUNCH]

@SuperStar:

This is a terrible argument. Oda doesn't need to say they are equal, The Whiskey Peak fight which did END in a "DRAW!" proves your assumptions wrong. Not too mention Oda gave Luffy and Zoro the same damn stat for their strength. Oda knows that whatever he puts down his audience knows it is the ABSOLUTE truth, the Data book has the number 6 their because it is FINAL (don't you think Oda would have put the damn numbers, calculations and decimals in there since it is a DAMN DATA book)?

What he said^

And anyone wanting $abz ridiculous theory proving wrong (Which resembles something like this "Mihawk isn't the best swordsman because oda didn't show us how he did it") just needs to go back a few pages.

[Pants-eater]

I have no idea who this is. So you may as well stop spamming.

[SabZ]

Superstar, you obviously don't recognize a hint. Since the fight never finished, it was a hint… because Oda never finished the fight. No matter how equal they were when they faught, you cannot prove that it wouldn't have gone either way.

OIP... what you talking about? Oda stated Mihawk the best... WITH A QUOTE. Did he do that with Luffy and Zoro... no. He gave us a short fight as a hint, but it never finished. If you want to base it off that, you're welcome to do so, but it proves nothing except that at the start of an unfinished fight between the two, neither got the upper hand. Here's another fact: Oda never said it would finish a draw, so the end of the fight is pure speculation... therefore this arguement cannot prove them equal. And your arguement about Mihawk was a waste.

Anyway... can you prove them equal at this very moment? If not... then everything is assumption.

[GoAnderson]

It's apparent to me that this argument is just the same old shit from WHITEY/psolaras, et. al. If no one can really bring anything constructive to the table but "CANON!11! ", then I see no point in keeping this open.

Superstar, fixius… you guys need to get a better proxy sometime.