Lol especially when he's being chased by enemy. hahahaha. The Arlong Arc. ahaha.
Luffy & Zoro (Potential Spoilers)
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Not longer that Luffy :p But faster, yes.
But I still think that would make them even more awesome :D
Just cuz Ima traingfreak mysef XD -
luffy knows soru,how can usopp run faster?
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That is not the point, Luffy needs to eat and drink to not get dehydrated if he uses sotu, so that is not a good tec.
Still Luffy and Zoro are strong and have great stamina. The have botht trained for 10years or more in Zoros case.
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I wouldn't say anything about now, because Luffy beating Lucci and Zoro beating Kaku isn't a gauge that anyone's gonna except, so in other words, we don't have too much information on who's stronger than in the Strawhats crew now. Even Nami could beat a member of CP9.
What I'm saying is, as literature in One Piece goes, Luffy is eventually going to be (already is IMO) the strongest in the realm, and thus the stronger of the 2, because of his dream. You don't have to agree with that, because it's just my opinion that Oda has already made it painfully obvious.
To me, it doesn't matter what happened in the past, like Whiskey Peak, Red Data Book, or even Enies Lobby. If relative strength always remained stagnant, then Zoro would never beat Mihawk, Luffy would never surpass Shanks, Whitebeard would always remain at the top, Dragon would not pose a threat to the WG. The variable here is the time and determination put into living the dream, and the gradient is the height of the dream itself. It doesn't matter where they were before or even now, because Luffy will reach the top. I believe that's what Oda wants us to see. You don't have to agree if it's really so painful for you to think that way.
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I wouldn't say anything about now, because Luffy beating Lucci and Zoro beating Kaku isn't a gauge that anyone's gonna except, so in other words, we don't have too much information on who's stronger than in the Strawhats crew now. Even Nami could beat a member of CP9.
What I'm saying is, as literature in One Piece goes, Luffy is eventually going to be (already is IMO) the strongest in the realm, and thus the stronger of the 2, because of his dream. You don't have to agree with that, because it's just my opinion that Oda has already made it painfully obvious.
To me, it doesn't matter what happened in the past, like Whiskey Peak, Red Data Book, or even Enies Lobby. If relative strength always remained stagnant, then Zoro would never beat Mihawk, Luffy would never surpass Shanks, Whitebeard would always remain at the top, Dragon would not pose a threat to the WG. The variable here is the time and determination put into living the dream, and the gradient is the height of the dream itself. It doesn't matter where they were before or even now, because Luffy will reach the top. I believe that's what Oda wants us to see. You don't have to agree if it's really so painful for you to think that way.
Painfully obvious? Nope. I never said that since Whiskey peak they have always been equal. Still that fight shows that they CAN BE EQUAL, but for some reason you say history cant repeat itself. At times Luffy > Zoro but at time too Zoro > Luffy (look at Skypia, he beat a much tougher priest by himself).
This APPLIES to Sanji and Franky as well. The Water 7 arc, Franky and Sanji did more damage to Blueno at first.
you ever had a teammate or rival? Weren't you at times better then them and at times better then you? When you fall back you suck it up, pick yourself together and train harder.
Also stop making it sound like Zoro's determination is weaker then Luffy's. His dream might be easier, BUT until THEY ACTUALLY REACH THAT POSITION, NONE OF THEM HAVE THE RIGHT TO SLACK OFF! THAT IS NOTHING OF ZORO'S PERSONALITY!
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Agreed KMA….....
Luffy defeating Lucci and Zoro defeating Kaku is not a good gauge at all to determine who is stronger. "Douriki" doesn't let us know who can win in a fight. Also, all we have to go on is the ACTUAL fight Luffy and Zoro had in Whiskey Peak. Using the "Luffy has the harder dream" is not a good argument either because Luffy NEEDS his ENTIRE Nakama for his dream to be successful. Everyone knows that Luffy wants (and is) going to be Pirate king from the start, If Oda and everybody already knew that, he would have ALREADY made Luffy stronger than Zoro but he hasn't.
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Agreed KMA….....
Luffy defeating Lucci and Zoro defeating Kaku is not a good gauge at all to determine who is stronger. "Douriki" doesn't let us know who can win in a fight. Also, all we have to go on is the ACTUAL fight Luffy and Zoro had in Whiskey Peak. Using the "Luffy has the harder dream" is not a good argument either because Luffy NEEDS his ENTIRE Nakama for his dream to be successful. Everyone knows that Luffy wants (and is) going to be Pirate king from the start, If Oda and everybody already knew that, he would have ALREADY made Luffy stronger than Zoro but he hasn't.
i agree totally in luffy needing all of his nakama and it isn't a disgrace for luffy to have an equal
though i believe in the end luffy will become slightly stronger
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though i believe in the end luffy will become slightly stronger
That only depends if Luffy gains abilities that can seperate him from Zoro! So far, Luffy has not seperated himself from him.
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That only depends if Luffy gains abilities that can seperate him from Zoro! So far, Luffy has not seperated himself from him.
he will never gain,slightly stronger in my mind is like ichigo vs zaraki,they will both be ready to fall at the end of the fight but zoro will and luffy will only be able to stand
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That only depends if Luffy gains abilities that can seperate him from Zoro! So far, Luffy has not seperated himself from him.
Gear 2? Gear 3?
I dare anybody to give me an accurate comparison between Gear 2/3 and Asura in terms on which is more affective and which leaves the user more powerful.
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I wouldn't say anything about now, because Luffy beating Lucci and Zoro beating Kaku isn't a gauge that anyone's gonna except, so in other words, we don't have too much information on who's stronger than in the Strawhats crew now. Even Nami could beat a member of CP9.
On information shown so far, a fight between luffy and zoro could go either way.
What I'm saying is, as literature in One Piece goes, Luffy is eventually going to be (already is IMO) the strongest in the realm,
From information shown we have roger=whitebeard, so the statement with the most value is what phenomenal used to say. Luffy and zoro's idols are rivals, making their goals of equal strength. This will probably make the series end just how it started, but the two who match each other will be luffy and zoro.
and thus the stronger of the 2, because of his dream. You don't have to agree with that, because it's just my opinion that Oda has already made it painfully obvious.
Being PK didn't make roger any stronger and wanting to be PK didn't make Whitebeard any stronger either
To me, it doesn't matter what happened in the past, like Whiskey Peak, Red Data Book, or even Enies Lobby.
Well to the rest of the world it does.
If relative strength always remained stagnant, then Zoro would never beat Mihawk, Luffy would never surpass Shanks, Whitebeard would always remain at the top,
Luffy and zoro have both gotten stronger and both received new states, from what is shown they're still a match for each other.
Dragon would not pose a threat to the WG. The variable here is the time and determination put into living the dream, and the gradient is the height of the dream itself. It doesn't matter where they were before or even now, because Luffy will reach the top. I believe that's what Oda wants us to see. You don't have to agree if it's really so painful for you to think that way.
Previous posts have already explained this so I'll skip it
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@$abZ:
Gear 2? Gear 3?
I dare anybody to give me an accurate comparison between Gear 2/3 and Asura in terms on which is more affective and which leaves the user more powerful.
let's see,luffy vs lucci with gear 2 and gear 3 lasted several chapters,luffy was in the realm of defeat and gears were his upgrade on this arc,right?
zoro vs kaku with demon ki (asura was an attack) lasted 1 hit
how long???? 1 hit,really??? yes indeed!! it was one hit
so if zoro fought lucci who had near the double douriki kaku had it would propably tire zoro as much as luffy was tired
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@$abZ:
Gear 2? Gear 3?
I dare anybody to give me an accurate comparison between Gear 2/3 and Asura in terms on which is more affective and which leaves the user more powerful.
You cant, but you cant say one is more superior to the other. People are saying that gear 2/3 leaves Zoro in the dust which is pure speculation.
Lets say this though Gear 2 = Gear 3 (both have advantages and disadvantages)
First time we see Gear 2 he used it against Blueno. Whether the Jet Bazooka was overkill or just enough its hard to say. (I would say most likely over but who knows). Still though Luffy did several attacks in Gear 2 form.
First time we see Asura it turns Kaku's strongest attack into mist and KO's him.
Lucci pushed Luffy's Gear 2 to the limit. Kaku was more of a test for Asura in which Zoro "aced."
Based on these, no one can say which forms are superior as of yet without admitting they are speculating.
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let's see,luffy vs lucci with gear 2 and gear 3 lasted several chapters,luffy was in the realm of defeat and gears were his upgrade on this arc,right?
zoro vs kaku with demon ki (asura was an attack) lasted 1 hit
how long???? 1 hit,really??? yes indeed!! it was one hit
so if zoro fought lucci who had near the double douriki kaku had it would propably tire zoro as much as luffy was tired
That's not exactly accurate, wouldn't you say?
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@$abZ:
That's not exactly accurate, wouldn't you say?
:wassat: why?????????????
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:wassat: why?????????????
The outcome of Zoro vs Lucci… nobody knows it or can really come close of knowing what it would be. It's crazy to base Zoro vs Lucci on Luffy vs Lucci; because Luffy and Zoro have completely different fighting styles.
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@$abZ:
The outcome of Zoro vs Lucci… nobody knows it or can really come close of knowing what it would be. It's crazy to base Zoro vs Lucci on Luffy vs Lucci; because Luffy and Zoro have completely different fighting styles.
that is true gangsta,but we are all speculating like you are when saying luffy has surpassed zoro
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that is true gangsta,but we are all speculating like you are when saying luffy has surpassed zoro
Lol @ gangsta.
I never said Luffy has surpassed Zoro. If you look back… my arguement was that there isn't enough solid proof to PROVE them equal. But I don't want to get into that again... because it gets stupid, and lasts for 50 pages getting nowhere.
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@$abZ:
Lol @ gangsta.
I never said Luffy has surpassed Zoro. If you look back… my arguement was that there isn't enough solid proof to PROVE them equal. But I don't want to get into that again... because it gets stupid, and lasts for 50 pages getting nowhere.
uh WTF?!?!
that means we were pretty much arguing the for the same thing!
I argue that there is no solid proof that Luffy > Zoro
haha
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@Kma:
uh WTF?!?!
that means we were pretty much arguing the for the same thing!
I argue that there is no solid proof that Luffy > Zoro
haha
Which is why this is all speculation, funny boy.
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The only part which isn't speculation is they were evenly matched and they have both received new states and constant hints of equality.
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The only part which isn't speculation is they were evenly matched and they have both received new states and constant hints of equality.
New states, which you somehow think are EXACTLY equal… going by nothing.
And the fight where you speculate the result, because Oda never gave us one.
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@$abZ:
New states, which you somehow think are EXACTLY equal… going by nothing.
Wrong I think they could go either way, going by gear's had trouble with lucci and asura sliced through amenedachi like butter. This shows asura is levels above kaku and gears is just enough for lucci.
You have to make your own conclusion here, but your wrong when you say people are going by nothing.
And the fight where you speculate the result, because Oda never gave us one.
Haha you can't beat this can you?
It'll never change the fact that they were evenly matched and the fact they have both received new states and constant hints of equality.
They were evenly matched I'm not saying anything about the outcome, you can't change this since it happened in the manga.
They've both recieved new states you can't change that, detailed analysis is above.
They're always compared to each other in the manga, if you want to examples I'll find a few for ya. But you and I both know you don't need any since I'm sure you remember very clearly
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Wrong I think they could go either way, going by gear's had trouble with lucci and asura sliced through amenedachi like butter. This shows asura is levels above kaku and gears is just enough for lucci.
You have to make your own conclusion here, but your wrong when you say people are going by nothing.
It's fair enough to come to the conclusion that the two forms may be close in power. But to say they're exactly equal… then you have nothing, unless you call a comparison of two fights good enough, which it isn't.
Haha you can't beat this can you?
It'll never change the fact that they were evenly matched and the fact they have both received new states and constant hints of equality.
They were evenly matched I'm not saying anything about the outcome, you can't change this since it happened in the manga.
They've both recieved new states you can't change that, detailed analysis is above.
They're always compared to each other in the manga, if you want to examples I'll find a few for ya. But you and I both know you don't need any since I'm sure you remember very clearly
Both recieving new states is a hint of equality… how?
They were evenly matched... but since the fight never finished, this proof is half useful for your arguement. I believe there would have been a winner... but my arguement is that the proof isn't good enough to PROVE that they're exactly equal. It hints it... but no way does an unfinished fight prove it.
Their best was equal, yes. But, as we've seen before, the end of the fight could have swayed in ones favour. See that's what Oda's doing... he's leaving us with tiny hints. He isn't saying "look guys, here's an unfinished fight to prove that they're equal." .... He's saying "look guys, the fight didn't finish so you'll never know who would have won!"
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@$abZ:
It's fair enough to come to the conclusion that the two forms may be close in power. But to say they're exactly equal… then you have nothing, unless you call a comparison of two fights good enough, which it isn't.
Both recieving new states is a hint of equality... how?
Why are you answering another post? I wrote this
Originally Posted by ONEinchPUNCH
_Wrong I think they could go either way, going by gear's had trouble with lucci and asura sliced through amenedachi like butter. This shows asura is levels above kaku and gears is just enough for lucci.You have to make your own conclusion here, but your wrong when you say people are going by nothing._
They were evenly matched… but since the fight never finished, this proof is half useful for your arguement. I believe there would have been a winner... but my arguement is that the proof isn't good enough to PROVE that they're exactly equal. It hints it... but no way does an unfinished fight prove it.
Answering another post again?
Didn't you see my other post saying I'm going to stick with it being possible that either zoro or luffy could win. That's what that fight suggests and you can't change that.
Their best was equal, yes. But, as we've seen before, the end of the fight could have swayed in ones favour. See that's what Oda's doing… he's leaving us with tiny hints. He isn't saying "look guys, here's an unfinished fight to prove that they're equal." .... He's saying "look guys, the fight didn't finish so you'll never know who would have won!"
Read above^
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You didn't counter anything. I'm saying that a half-finished fight doesn't PROVE that they are equal, because there may have been a winner which would prove to be the stronger in the end. Counter this.
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@$abZ:
You didn't counter anything. I'm saying that a half-finished fight doesn't PROVE that they are equal, because there may have been a winner which would prove to be the stronger in the end. Counter this.
Didn't you see my other post saying I'm going to stick with it being possible that either zoro or luffy could win. That's what that fight suggests and you can't change that.
You blind….......?
EDIT. You didn't say anything about the rest of my post, does that mean you agree or can't counter?
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Lol… that's not a counter. I'm saying the fight doesn't PROVE they're equal, it hints it. If a winner emerged, then it would PROVE that one is stroger, and who it is.
You saying that you're sticking with it being possible that either can win suggests that one is stronger.
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@$abZ:
Lol… that's not a counter. I'm saying the fight doesn't PROVE they're equal, it hints it. If a winner emerged, then it would PROVE that one is stroger, and who it is.
You saying that you're sticking with it being possible that either can win suggests that one is stronger.
If either one can win it means you can't decide who is stronger, meaning they are very close in strength. So close that neither has an advantage in the fight, which makes it impossible to decide who is stronger.
Now that will do me I don't care if you don't acknowledge them as equals, this is just as good to me. It also can't be denied since it happened in the manga.
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this has turned into a fight between OiP and MC $abz
the $ is the bling,bling,bling! http://www.xultrasoft.com/bling/images/3.png
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To make this more entertaining, I propose we turn this debate into an RPG.
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LOL
It's a battle of ego, not logical sense, now.
Look, all you've been saying (those who quoted me and retorted; i thank you that you took my post seriously ;p) we haven't got much information on who is stronger, so we can't say for sure right? And OIP said that since WB was considered Gol D. Roger's equal, therefore equality can exist between the 2 strongest and therefore Zoro can = Luffy. And "to everyone else in the world, it does (matter the past information we received).
Now I'm not saying that can't happen, but the probability, to me, is quite low. First of all, I already said, One Piece has a strong theme of dreams and determination to fulfil it. Roger's dream was to conquer the Grandline, and became PK. Whitebeard wants to be PK. Both were considered the strongest, and equal. Now, Luffy wants to be PK, Zoro wants to be World's Strongest Swordsman. I don't think anyone will argue with me if I said that Zoro's dream is to surpass Mihawk to be No.1 Swordsman. Where is Mihawk now? No.1 Swordsman. Is he the world's strongest? NO(unless you're saying Mihawk has surpassed Whitebeard, but I don't think you wanna say that unless you wanna lose all credibility in your words). At what level of power was Gol D. Roger before his death? World's Strongest, along with Whitebeard. Is Luffy aiming for his position? YES. What the difference is here, I think you can see for yourself. So you ask "why can't World No.1 Swordsman be World strongest too?" Well, he can! But has it happened? Nope. Based on the fact that you based all your theories and speculations on past events, I dont think you wanna dispute that. Unless you wanna change your stand now ;p.
And to the statement on whether past information matters or not, you're totally missing my point. I'm saying what happens in the future shouldn't be factored by fixed status from the past, because anything can happen in the unknown future to change things. You'd just be sticking to the past if you think it's all that mattered.
Notice I didn't make any mention of Luffy's current level of power relative to the SHs. That's because my (very disputable) opinion of Luffy being stronger than Zoro doesn't matter at all now. Frankly, we havent seen enough to judge whether Asura can match up to Gear 2/3 yet. So i don't care what you say on the matter.
In short: Luffy's dream is higher than Zoro's dream, therefore eventually he'll be stronger than Zoro. Frankly, there's nothing wrong with Luffy having a crewmate who's as strong as him, but unless Zoro changes his dream from No.1 Swordsman to No.1 Strongest, he'd be behind Luffy in the end. That's my point.
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LOL
It's a battle of ego, not logical sense, now.
Look, all you've been saying (those who quoted me and retorted; i thank you that you took my post seriously ;p) we haven't got much information on who is stronger, so we can't say for sure right? And OIP said that since WB was considered Gol D. Roger's equal, therefore equality can exist between the 2 strongest and therefore Zoro can = Luffy. And "to everyone else in the world, it does (matter the past information we received).
Now I'm not saying that can't happen, but the probability, to me, is quite low. First of all, I already said, One Piece has a strong theme of dreams and determination to fulfil it. Roger's dream was to conquer the Grandline, and became PK. Whitebeard wants to be PK. Both were considered the strongest, and equal. Now, Luffy wants to be PK, Zoro wants to be World's Strongest Swordsman. I don't think anyone will argue with me if I said that Zoro's dream is to surpass Mihawk to be No.1 Swordsman. Where is Mihawk now? No.1 Swordsman. Is he the world's strongest? NO(unless you're saying Mihawk has surpassed Whitebeard, but I don't think you wanna say that unless you wanna lose all credibility in your words). At what level of power was Gol D. Roger before his death? World's Strongest, along with Whitebeard. Is Luffy aiming for his position? YES. What the difference is here, I think you can see for yourself. So you ask "why can't World No.1 Swordsman be World strongest too?" Well, he can! But has it happened? Nope. Based on the fact that you based all your theories and speculations on past events, I dont think you wanna dispute that. Unless you wanna change your stand now ;p.
And to the statement on whether past information matters or not, you're totally missing my point. I'm saying what happens in the future shouldn't be factored by fixed status from the past, because anything can happen in the unknown future to change things. You'd just be sticking to the past if you think it's all that mattered.
Notice I didn't make any mention of Luffy's current level of power relative to the SHs. That's because my (very disputable) opinion of Luffy being stronger than Zoro doesn't matter at all now. Frankly, we havent seen enough to judge whether Asura can match up to Gear 2/3 yet. So i don't care what you say on the matter.
In short: Luffy's dream is higher than Zoro's dream, therefore eventually he'll be stronger than Zoro. Frankly, there's nothing wrong with Luffy having a crewmate who's as strong as him, but unless Zoro changes his dream from No.1 Swordsman to No.1 Strongest, he'd be behind Luffy in the end. That's my point.
hmmmm,well mihawk is propably the strongest schichibukai and the second strongest person in OP,now WB has a scar and from what he said to shanks the man who scarred him is connected to shanks,so he is either mihawk or roger
so don't underistamate mihawk,he can well be 1 douriki weaker than WB and mihawk being weaker than WB means anything,all luffy's foes before whiskey peak where stronger than zoro's but we saw they were equal when they fought and if that continues that doesn't mean luffy will be stronger
dreams can't be compared and if they can luffy was saved from dragon twice,he was spared from aokiji and saved by nico robin in alabasta while zoro was only spared ny mihawk,also luffy's dream is more difficult indeed but it isn't something that he can do alone,he needs all his nakama to do it and he doesn't have to be stronger than everyone to become PK,like roger
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@$abZ:
Gear 2? Gear 3?
I dare anybody to give me an accurate comparison between Gear 2/3 and Asura in terms on which is more affective and which leaves the user more powerful.
Gear 2/3 are nothing more than strength and speed upgrades. It's something that Zoro has and can deal with. Luffy doesn't have any crazy abilities that seperates him from Zoro.
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LOL
It's a battle of ego, not logical sense, now.
Look, all you've been saying (those who quoted me and retorted; i thank you that you took my post seriously ;p) we haven't got much information on who is stronger, so we can't say for sure right? And OIP said that since WB was considered Gol D. Roger's equal, therefore equality can exist between the 2 strongest and therefore Zoro can = Luffy. And "to everyone else in the world, it does (matter the past information we received).
Now I'm not saying that can't happen, but the probability, to me, is quite low. First of all, I already said, One Piece has a strong theme of dreams and determination to fulfil it. Roger's dream was to conquer the Grandline, and became PK. Whitebeard wants to be PK. Both were considered the strongest, and equal. Now, Luffy wants to be PK, Zoro wants to be World's Strongest Swordsman. I don't think anyone will argue with me if I said that Zoro's dream is to surpass Mihawk to be No.1 Swordsman. Where is Mihawk now? No.1 Swordsman. Is he the world's strongest? NO(unless you're saying Mihawk has surpassed Whitebeard, but I don't think you wanna say that unless you wanna lose all credibility in your words). At what level of power was Gol D. Roger before his death? World's Strongest, along with Whitebeard. Is Luffy aiming for his position? YES. What the difference is here, I think you can see for yourself. So you ask "why can't World No.1 Swordsman be World strongest too?" Well, he can! But has it happened? Nope. Based on the fact that you based all your theories and speculations on past events, I dont think you wanna dispute that. Unless you wanna change your stand now ;p.
And to the statement on whether past information matters or not, you're totally missing my point. I'm saying what happens in the future shouldn't be factored by fixed status from the past, because anything can happen in the unknown future to change things. You'd just be sticking to the past if you think it's all that mattered.
Notice I didn't make any mention of Luffy's current level of power relative to the SHs. That's because my (very disputable) opinion of Luffy being stronger than Zoro doesn't matter at all now. Frankly, we havent seen enough to judge whether Asura can match up to Gear 2/3 yet. So i don't care what you say on the matter.
In short: Luffy's dream is higher than Zoro's dream, therefore eventually he'll be stronger than Zoro. Frankly, there's nothing wrong with Luffy having a crewmate who's as strong as him, but unless Zoro changes his dream from No.1 Swordsman to No.1 Strongest, he'd be behind Luffy in the end. That's my point.
I agree that in the end, Luffy will most likely be stronger then Zoro. Still werent you arguing that Luffy is CURRENTLY stronger?
Archtyrant, every one of your posts is very well written and I can see where your coming from. Honestly this thread has become a battle of opinion, and changing the opinions of human beings is probaly one of the hardest things to do. I agree with part of your post, but no completely.
My stand is that as of now, Luffy = Zoro, and even though the scales will tip from time to time, we will not see much of a difference UNTIL they reach their dreams. Even then I believe that when they do reach their dreams their difference in power will be minimal, if not equal.
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IMO Luffy>Zoro, Oda basicaly put Luffy one step ahead of everyone else by making him their "protector" http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-2/chapter387.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=6924
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That is kind of a weak argument, I remember Ussopp being Luffy's protector before he got TKO'd by Lucci.
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To fixius: Well we don't know much about mihawk now. Saying he's world no.2 or that he has douriki 1 less than WB is pure speculation since Oda hasn't made any mention of something like that. I mean, no one's underestimating him, you can see he's feared even among the ranks of the shichibukai, but you can't straight definitely say where he stands right now among all the powers of the world. What we DO know, however, is that he is not the strongest out there now, because WB (or maybe BB, who knows) is.
And no, Zoro was also saved by luffy from mr 3 in little garden, and he was also defeated by Aokiji. But this doesn't matter; you're right in saying that Luffy cannot be without his nakama. No one is disputing that. What I'm saying is that Luffy aims to be Pirate King, and thus be the World's strongest, which is a dream higher than Zoro's World No.1 Swordsman, and thus he is going to be stronger than Zoro, even if marginally.
To Kma: Yeah you're right, all we can do now is just present our opinions, and not force it on others. I'm glad we could come to the consensus that our interpretations of the manga could differ from person to person. We can't say for sure whether Zoro has kept up with Luffy up until now, therefore we shouldn't argue on that. To you, Luffy = Zoro and to me, Luffy > Zoro. There isn't much we can do to convince each other since there's hardly material to base our opinions on, only our own feelings upon reading the manga.
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There you go again saying the PK is the strongest when thats baseless since roger had an equal. Using dreams isn't a strong argument, you think once they reach their dreams they stop training?
You think just because one beats Whitebeard and one beats mihawk, it makes one of them weaker? You can say one achieved more, but you can't say one is stronger than the other, they may both be able to take WB. So who is stronger remains inconclusive until oda shows one being superior and so far he hasn't.
From what has happened so far we are shown that they're so close in strength that either one could win in a fight. Anything else is speculation
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To fixius: Well we don't know much about mihawk now. Saying he's world no.2 or that he has douriki 1 less than WB is pure speculation since Oda hasn't made any mention of something like that. I mean, no one's underestimating him, you can see he's feared even among the ranks of the shichibukai, but you can't straight definitely say where he stands right now among all the powers of the world. What we DO know, however, is that he is not the strongest out there now, because WB (or maybe BB, who knows) is.
well yes,it is speculation since it isn't stated anywhere the good part about one piece is that,it is gonna be better when it continues and everyone is looking forward too and want their theories to be right
And no, Zoro was also saved by luffy from mr 3 in little garden, and he was also defeated by Aokiji. But this doesn't matter; you're right in saying that Luffy cannot be without his nakama. No one is disputing that. What I'm saying is that Luffy aims to be Pirate King, and thus be the World's strongest, which is a dream higher than Zoro's World No.1 Swordsman, and thus he is going to be stronger than Zoro, even if marginally.
well you see what i mean,zoro's dream may be more easy to accomplish but zoro could do it alone,travel in a boat,become stronger and find mihawk while luffy's is the hardest dream in OP but if luffy becomes the PK half of the credit if not more goes to his nakama,he can't accomplish it alone
also i have a statement to make,last night i drunk what none man has drunk before and today i ate what none man has ate before
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You've never really understood what i've been saying have you?
I'm not saying that being Pirate King automatically makes you strongest. I'm saying it's what you have to be, in order to be Pirate King.
I'm saying their dreams are what will bring them to that level to achieve it.
you're bringing the topic to a very superficial level. What i'm taking it to is a more fundamental one, the very crux of what gave each of them their respective strengths in the first place.
It doesn't matter what happened in the past, because ultimately, it won't affect what happens in the future. Correct? Or are you gonna dispute that too? It just shows your level of thinking if you do.
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To fixius: haha yeah, maybe after Luffy becomes Pirate King (if he ever does), then Zoro might leave his crew in a small boat too haha
But what does that last statement mean anyway '_'?
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You've never really understood what i've been saying have you?
I'm not saying that being Pirate King automatically makes you strongest. I'm saying it's what you have to be, in order to be Pirate King.
I'm saying their dreams are what will bring them to that level to achieve it.
you're bringing the topic to a very superficial level. What i'm taking it to is a more fundamental one, the very crux of what gave each of them their respective strengths in the first place.
It doesn't matter what happened in the past, because ultimately, it won't affect what happens in the future. Correct? Or are you gonna dispute that too? It just shows your level of thinking if you do.
well you don't nescesserily have to be the strongest to be the PK,you can be at the biggest level that someone can be and have many people equal to you if you have strongest nakama
also i know this was going to OiP….
To fixius: haha yeah, maybe after Luffy becomes Pirate King (if he ever does), then Zoro might leave his crew in a small boat too haha
But what does that last statement mean anyway '_'?
well last night was the ressurection day and i think i drank by myself one bottle of tequila,i think i was dancing even with the people at the door of the club sometime!!!! the only problem was that the girl i like didn't come:sad:
and today i woke up at noon just to eat at the easter table,i bet 1.000.000 dollars that even luffy haven't eaten that much!!!!
ohh,folks,how was your night yesterday??? Archtyrant i have a feeling you can't have eaten more than me!!!!!
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You've never really understood what i've been saying have you?
I'm not saying that being Pirate King automatically makes you strongest. I'm saying it's what you have to be, in order to be Pirate King.
What I'm saying is that Luffy aims to be Pirate King, and thus be the World's strongest, which is a dream higher than Zoro's World No.1 Swordsman, and thus he is going to be stronger than Zoro, even if marginally.
You contradict yourself
No matter how intelligent you try and make your argument it will never make it more than speculation. We have no idea what whitebeard was trying to be when roger was around, yet he equaled roger. All we know is right now he's after one piece, we know nothing about earlier. This shows how flawed your argument really is, so before asking others if they understand you, try understanding your own posts
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You contradict yourself
No matter how intelligent you try and make your argument it will never make it more than speculation. We have no idea what whitebeard was trying to be when roger was around, yet he equaled roger. All we know is right now he's after one piece, we know nothing about earlier. This shows how flawed your argument really is, so before asking others if they understand you, try understanding your own posts
If you ask me, it's a matter of "necessary" and "sufficient".
Being the strongest man in the world is clearly not sufficient to be Pirate King, or Whitebeard would be Pirate King today.
Is being the strongest man necessary to be the Pirate King? I'm suspect. We don't have much proof either way. Whitebeard fought Gol D. Roger to a draw IIRC, but there are many variables which can throw a fight (emotional states, where the fight takes place, rules and weapons), so that fact alone doesn't prove whether Roger was strongest even at the time.
I suspect a lot of what let Roger get so far was smarts and good timing and a quality crew.
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Even if Luffy becomes Pirate King, it doesn't mean that he will be automatically stronger than everyone. Abilities can only seperate one form the rest, not finding a treasure. Luffy could become Pirate King by finding One Piece yet X character has greater skills than Luffy.
We all know Luffy will become Pirate King and as of now he has shown nothing that seperates himself from Zoro's strength.
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I can beat that pansy Zolo any day!…lol. Well, I heard that Zolo was able to slice Luffy up one good time, but I actually liked it that the two of them were at a standstill in the Whickey Peak Arc. However, Gum Gum Battle Axe soooooo kicks Oni Giri's butt...
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Even if Luffy becomes Pirate King, it doesn't mean that he will be automatically stronger than everyone. Abilities can only seperate one form the rest, not finding a treasure. Luffy could become Pirate King by finding One Piece yet X character has greater skills than Luffy.
We all know Luffy will become Pirate King and as of now he has shown nothing that seperates himself from Zoro's strength.
Great another reason added to counter archtyrants PK crap, nice post superstar
I can beat that pansy Zolo any day!…lol. Well, I heard that Zolo was able to slice Luffy up one good time, but I actually liked it that the two of them were at a standstill in the Whickey Peak Arc. However, Gum Gum Battle Axe soooooo kicks Oni Giri's butt...
Zolo….. Gum Gum.....
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Here's whats retarded about what you guys are saying.Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world and looking for one piece.OBVIOUSLY Luffy would have to beat him to be the Pirate king.
Or do you think its gonna play out like this
Marco:hey that strawhat kid found One piece!
Whitebeard:He did what?!?! Grrrr….that brat slipped under our noses!!!(Whitebeard is saying this while steam is coming out of his ears)