Luffy & Zoro (Potential Spoilers)

SabZ

Quietly changing your answers eh?

I remember when it was 6.9 and 6.1

Well anyway $abz that other guys theory is also a good one, but the fact still remains that his and your little equations are just theories.

While this

Luffys-strength= 6
Zoro's-strength= 6

or

Luffys-Strength= –----
Zoro's-Strength= ------

or even this
Luffy zoro
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |

Take your pick

All your thoeries don't matter because the author has chosen to use a whole number. Also each bar on the chart is the exact same size, this $abz cannot be countered.

No matter how it was worked out, each bar is the exact same length and width. If one was stronger than the other their bars in the chart would be different.

If any extra information is needed it will be given, you can make as many guesses as you please

Understand my theory. It completely blows the other guy's away, because he did all that Luffy + Zoro stuff… which would not make them stronger than all the SHs in my theory.

A graph of the chart only illustrates the chart, and what is written on it.

The chart is the thing that holds the meaning. The graph merely goes by how the chart looks...

... but what I'm saying is that there is no proof on how Oda created his chart; so the value of one sixth remains unknown. Oda MAY have dimmed the chart down, to the number 6, then illustrated it through a graph. There's no fact to prove he didn't.

Yes, it is likely that 6 = 6 in the chart, and it is also likely that 6 has a higher value... but there is no fact which says 6 = 6. Oda has never once said that they're equal.

This debate is pointless without anymore proof. We're going noweher. Can't you just leave it? I thought you would stop... but there you go again, thinking that you can shut me up with speculation.

Wait until we get more hints... or a FACT.

ONEinchPUNCH

@$abZ:

Understand my theory. It completely blows the other guy's away, because he did all that Luffy + Zoro stuff… which would not make them stronger than all the SHs in my theory.

A graph of the chart only illustrates the chart, and what is written on it.

The chart is the thing that holds the meaning. The graph merely goes by how the chart looks...

... but what I'm saying is that there is no proof on how Oda created his chart; so the value of one sixth remains unknown. Oda MAY have dimmed the chart down, to the number 6, then illustrated it through a graph. There's no fact to prove he didn't.

Yes, it is likely that 6 = 6 in the chart, and it is also likely that 6 has a higher value... but there is no fact which says 6 = 6. Oda has never once said that they're equal.

This debate is pointless without anymore proof. We're going noweher. Can't you just leave it? I thought you would stop... but there you go again, thinking that you can shut me up with speculation.

Wait until we get more hints... or a FACT.

This doesn't counter each bar on the chart being the exact same length both reaching the limit of the chart.

And the whiskey peak fight shows their best being equal, whether it ended or not. THIS IS FACT

When Oda doesn't want them being equal he'll show it. Also that guys theory was fine it was just different to yours, which got him a different answer and working.

SabZ

It does disprove your bar arguement; because it's the way a chart works. Show me a chart with a graph that does not illustrate what is on the chart only. Show me a graph like that.

You can't. A graph simply illustrates a chart (which could have been dimmed down by Oda… and it has not been proved). The chart is what may have been dimmed down, after following the options of my theory. Please disprove this. The graph ILLUSTRATES the dimmed down chart, in my theory. You cannot come up with any fact to disprove my theory, that is why you sould leave it, OIP. Leave it until another fact or hint comes up. Bbut you fail to understand that this goes nowhere.

Here's another fact: The Whiskey Peak fight NEVER ENDED, Luffy blocked a katana shot with his sandal, Nami punched them both to stop, and it worked. You expect the Whiskey Peak fight to be good enough to prove something as big as our arguement?

mujushin

Heyheyhey, they really are equal, and Luffy think Zoro is the strongets except himself, like in the Skypia arc; Oi, Zoro what are you doing, how could this happend if you were here?

In Arabasta, Luffy ate some hallu-cactus :D:D:D
He thought they were enemys and was goign to attack them, but Zoro punched him at the same time and the KO each other

ONEinchPUNCH

@$abZ:

It does disprove your bar arguement; because it's the way a chart works. Show me a chart with a graph that does not illustrate what is on the chart only. Show me a graph like that.

I can't seem to upload pictures otherwise I'd show you Oda's, it fits that description perfectly

You can't. A graph simply illustrates a chart (which could have been dimmed down by Oda… and it has not been proved). The chart is what may have been dimmed down, after following the options of my theory. Please disprove this. The graph ILLUSTRATES the dimmed down chart, in my theory. You cannot come up with any fact to disprove my theory, that is why you sould leave it, OIP. Leave it until another fact or hint comes up. Bbut you fail to understand that this goes nowhere.

The chart is the original, all other graphs are fan created. Your theory depends on the fan created ones, this is your flaw. If you just read the info off the chart it shows luffy and zoro's bars are exactly the same length.

There are hundreds of positions in which the bar may be stopped, which is your theory ( Oda had the power to stop zoro's bar at 5.5 if zoro's strength was this) Oda just didn't do that since zoro is stronger.

Here's another fact: The Whiskey Peak fight NEVER ENDED,

Their BEST was used before the interuption, <<<< <please counter="" this="" part<br="">> Luffy blocked a katana shot with his sandal,

Right….. The blunt of zoro's sword, it just shows luffy has some good control.

Nami punched them both to stop, and it worked.

Oda had to end it without both characters dying, he chose a comical way. But whatever happened before is still serious.

You expect the Whiskey Peak fight to be good enough to prove something as big as our arguement?

I expect you to acknowledge their best being equal, if it isn't prove to me their best attacks weren't equal.

@mujushin:

Heyheyhey, they really are equal, and Luffy think Zoro is the strongets except himself, like in the Skypia arc; Oi, Zoro what are you doing, how could this happend if you were here?

This is also a nice bit of info

In Arabasta, Luffy ate some hallu-cactus :D:D:D
He thought they were enemys and was goign to attack them, but Zoro punched him at the same time and the KO each other

This is a filler though, although it shows you what the story writers thought of oda's chart</please>

SabZ

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Their BEST was used before the interuption, <<<<<please counter="" this="" part<="" blockquote="">Luffy gets better throughout a fight… FACT. Luffy could have started to get the edge throughout the battle, if it lasted longer. There are no two people that can be EXACTLY equal. It is a very bold theory if you think there are. One of them would win it... prove to me that they would stay equal until the fight ended. This arguement of yours fails.

I am going to post my post from the other page, and leave it at that. I am also going to add a bit more at the bottom. Until you disprove my theory… then you can never prove that Luffy and Zoro are equal. PROVE by showing a finished fight... or posting a quote from Oda saying they are equal.

This is my last post here until you disprove this.

–-

I think that there were 5 members of the SHs at the time of the chart. So let's say that the power of all the SHs at that time adds to 185.

Note: This is just a guess of all the powers, to prove my theory of maths that may have been used by Oda.

Luffy = 60, Zoro = 55, Sanji = 45, Nami = 9, Usopp = 16 = 185

What Oda could have done is got the highest value (60) and divided it by 6 (the number he wanted to use in the chart) which equals 10.

Nami got lower than 10, so she ends up placed as 1. Usopp would be 2, because he is lower than 20 but higher than 10. 10 is a sixth of 60.

0-10 = 1
10-20 = 2
21-30 = 3
31-40 = 4
41-50 = 5
51-60 = 6

Anyone over 50 would be classed as 6… HOWEVER... the value of a sixth is 10 so there can be a difference between the two that got 6. In this case, Luffy and Zoro were classed as 6 but Luffy got a higher value in terms of power levels. His power level was 5 higher than Zoro's.

THIS IS HOW ODA COULD HAVE DONE IT, BUT WITH DIFFERENT FIGURES. UNTIL YOU PROVE THAT HE DIDN'T DO THIS AND PROVE THE VALUE OF ONE SIXTH, THEN YOU CANNOT FULLY PROVE THAT LUFFY = ZORO.

Oda never stated the value of a sixth... so everything that you guys say about 6=6 is mere speculation, and it has not been proved that Oda never used this method but never revealed it. The value of a sixth was never stated. Oda may have left us to think a little more, he may not... if you can prove (and I mean PROVE as in a quote from him or something in the chart) that Oda never used this sort of method, then you are right. If you can't prove it... then 6=6 (in the chart) is mere speculation on your part.

The graph with the chart only illustrates it. Oda may have dimmed down his analysis into 6 levels... and the graph merely shows the 6 parts.

It's like exam results, in my area and in many other areas. They make graphs on the class... and the individual people. On the y axis they have printed A, B, C, D, E, and U. People who have gotten A have their bars in the exact same place, because the graph is dimmed down.

The real results show that two people would have the bar at the same place, but really one did better than the other in the test, beating him by a few marks. The graph is an illustration. The real meaning hides in the database of marks that the students picked up.

Graphs are regularly dimmed down, to make them look simpler. That means that there are less figures on the y axis... so some results must reach the same figure, even if they aren't exactly equal in value.

In this case, Oda may have dimmed down the chart and graph… after using my theory. That would mean that he doesn't yet want to show Luffy = Zoro, or Luffy > Zoro... but has hinted they are around the same strength. The graph just illustrates that they both got 6.</please>

ONEinchPUNCH

@$abZ:

Luffy gets better throughout a fight… FACT. Luffy could have started to get the edge throughout the battle, if it lasted longer. There are no two people that can be EXACTLY equal. It is a very bold theory if you think there are. One of them would win it... prove to me that they would stay equal until the fight ended. This arguement of yours fails.

It's in no way impossible in a manga for them to be equal, oh and you didn't counter their best being equal.

Did you read the same fight?

_> I am going to post my post from the other page, and leave it at that. I am also going to add a bit more at the bottom. Until you disprove my theory… then you can never prove that Luffy and Zoro are equal. PROVE by showing a finished fight... or posting a quote from Oda saying they are equal.

This is my last post here until you disprove this.

I am going to post this each time until you understand it's already using a 5.5 system.
–-
The chart is the original, all other graphs are fan created. Your theory depends on the fan created ones, this is your flaw. If you just read the info off the chart it shows luffy and zoro's bars are exactly the same length.

There are hundreds of positions in which the bar may be stopped, which is your theory ( Oda had the power to stop zoro's bar at 5.5 if zoro's strength was this) Oda just didn't do that since zoro is stronger.

I think that there were 5 members of the SHs at the time of the chart. So let's say that the power of all the SHs at that time adds to 185.

Note: This is just a guess of all the powers, to prove my theory of maths that may have been used by Oda.

Luffy = 60, Zoro = 55, Sanji = 45, Nami = 9, Usopp = 16 = 185

What Oda could have done is got the highest value (60) and divided it by 6 (the number he wanted to use in the chart) which equals 10.

Nami got lower than 10, so she ends up placed as 1. Usopp would be 2, because he is lower than 20 but higher than 10. 10 is a sixth of 60.

0-10 = 1
10-20 = 2
21-30 = 3
31-40 = 4
41-50 = 5
51-60 = 6

The chart already allows 51,52,53,54 etc etc because the bar can be stopped wherever oda pleases. So if zoro was 55 and luffy was 60 it would look like this

–----------

(each dash is worth 5)

Also noticed how I specify my dashes value? Since oda didn't do this his chart must be read how it has been presented and likewise for my dashes.

Anyone over 50 would be classed as 6… HOWEVER... the value of a sixth is 10 so there can be a difference between the two that got 6. In this case, Luffy and Zoro were classed as 6 but Luffy got a higher value in terms of power levels. His power level was 5 higher than Zoro's.

No anyone over 50 would be accurately displayed by stopping each characters bar in the correct place. Oda did this and they both got 6, they didn't have to they got it because they are 6.

THIS IS HOW ODA COULD HAVE DONE IT, BUT WITH DIFFERENT FIGURES. UNTIL YOU PROVE THAT HE DIDN'T DO THIS AND PROVE THE VALUE OF ONE SIXTH, THEN YOU CANNOT FULLY PROVE THAT LUFFY = ZORO.

It already works like that and they both got 6 showing their equal.

Oda never stated the value of a sixth… so everything that you guys say about 6=6 is mere speculation, and it has not been proved that Oda never used this method but never revealed it. The value of a sixth was never stated. Oda may have left us to think a little more, he may not... if you can prove (and I mean PROVE as in a quote from him or something in the chart) that Oda never used this sort of method, then you are right. If you can't prove it... then 6=6 (in the chart) is mere speculation on your part.

The chart can stop wherever it pleases, 5.1 5.2 or 55 59. But it didn't it stopped on 60 for each character. Why? Maybe because their equal.

The graph with the chart only illustrates it. Oda may have dimmed down his analysis into 6 levels… and the graph merely shows the 6 parts.

Wrong, the charts bars may be stopped at any digit.

It's like exam results, in my area and in many other areas. They make graphs on the class… and the individual people. On the y axis they have printed A, B, C, D, E, and U. People who have gotten A have their bars in the exact same place, because the graph is dimmed down.

The real results show that two people would have the bar at the same place, but really one did better than the other in the test, beating him by a few marks. The graph is an illustration. The real meaning hides in the database of marks that the students picked up.

Graphs are regularly dimmed down, to make them look simpler. That means that there are less figures on the y axis... so some results must reach the same figure, even if they aren't exactly equal in value.

In this case, Oda may have dimmed down the chart and graph… after using my theory. That would mean that he doesn't yet want to show Luffy = Zoro, or Luffy > Zoro... but has hinted they are around the same strength. The graph just illustrates that they both got 6.

Wrong, the charts bars may be stopped at any digit.

For a more detailed answer just re-read my post._

SabZ

The things you said at the start of your post were countered later in my post; your theory on what Oda intended isn't fact; your replies to the last two parts of my post were lame, they included no proof.

Try again.

ONEinchPUNCH

@$abZ:

The things you said at the start of your post were countered later in my post; your theory on what Oda intended isn't fact; your replies to the last two parts of my post were lame, they included no proof.

You still haven't countered this

The chart is the original, all other graphs are fan created. Your theory depends on the fan created ones, this is your flaw. If you just read the info off the chart it shows luffy and zoro's bars are exactly the same length.

There are hundreds of positions in which the bar may be stopped, which is your theory ( Oda had the power to stop zoro's bar at 5.5 if zoro's strength was this) Oda just didn't do that since zoro is stronger.

And have failed to prove luffy and zoro's best wasn't equal, which is impossible to disprove since it was shown in the manga.

Try again.

My sig is for people like you

fixius

OiP please stop explaining,oda will never explain what the bars mean cuz it simply can be understood by a 6 year old

he is not gonna say:"$abz my friend i understand studying is hard so i will explain that i put the number 6 as the maximum strenght of the SHs that time so i will make everyone understand zoro along with luffy are equal"

the whole categorized part is funny,he simply changes something everytime he is proven wrong,if luffy was 60 and zoro 55 oda would have said that,kaku was slightly stronger than jyabura and oda showed that

even if oda sais it with words or via a character there will always be someone that will not accept it,OiP you don't understand that it isn't a misunderstanding someone has and he cannot "get" something,it is the person's denial in everything that doesn't suit him,there is a saying that goes like that:"leave the crazy in their insanity"

just stop quoting him or else this will go on forever and more will be confused this way,so it's best to leave him be or else people will start questioning the existance and crepabiliy of microsoft excel!!!!

Penkanuin

This is quite silly. This whole, prove my entirely, speculative hypothesis wrong deal is absurd. Oda could have dimmed down his chart? Sure, but as far as we know he didn't, so as far as we know (by what's given) Luffy and Zoro are equal. Until anything else is said/shown, that's how it is.

I happen to believe that Luffy is stronger than Zoro, but there's nothing to prove it. Rather than come up with some baseless arguements, I decided to accept them as equal till it is stated otherwise.

fixius

@Penkanuin:

This is quite silly. This whole, prove my entirely, speculative hypothesis wrong deal is absurd. Oda could have dimmed down his chart? Sure, but as far as we know he didn't, so as far as we know (by what's given) Luffy and Zoro are equal. Until anything else is said/shown, that's how it is.

I happen to believe that Luffy is stronger than Zoro, but there's nothing to prove it. Rather than come up with some baseless arguements, I decided to accept them as equal till it is stated otherwise.

exactly,well said penkanuin!!!!!

SabZ

It really is hard to believe that people like you guys don't understand that if Oda has never stated them equal, they are not equal. If Oda has never mentioned the value of 6, then the chart is pretty much a hint… and doesn't PROVE anything. It hard to believe that people like OIP just keep posting the things I have already countered, but hasn't countered my arguement.

It really is... hard to believe how ignorant some of you guys are. And most of you have joined in the last few days... so it's hard to believe that some kid that has gotten banned doesn't keep making new accounts all the time.

I'm through with you guys. I have countered everything, and no matter what OIP says, you can look back... I have countered it all. I have explained that there is NO 100% fact that Luffy and Zoro have been PROVED equal. There have been hints... yes, but nothing has been proven.

That's why I'll do the smart thing and wait for a quote, instead of countering things you guys have written... which is based on a chart which hasn't even been explained by Oda himself. A fight that never finished, so we would never have knwon who would have gotten the edge.

My theory shows a way of which Oda could have created his chart. Shows a way that 6 doesn't neccesarily equal 6 in the chart, because it's value may be different. Oda has never explained his method, therefore it is all speculation. No matter how much you say 6=6 on the chart... it is SPECULATION UNTIL YOU PROVE THE VALUE OF 6 TO ME.

I'm done with this worthless debate. You guys are unbelievable. I'm doing the smart thing now... and waiting for a better time.

ONEinchPUNCH

@$abZ:

It really is hard to believe that people like you guys don't understand that if Oda has never stated them equal, they are not equal. If Oda has never mentioned the value of 6, then the chart is pretty much a hint… and doesn't PROVE anything. It hard to believe that people like OIP just keep posting the things I have already countered, but hasn't countered my arguement.

You ain't countered jack and if you ain't noticed the posts people are calling your theory wrong.

it really is… hard to believe how ignorant some of you guys are. And most of you have joined in the last few days... so it's hard to believe that some kid that has gotten banned doesn't keep making new accounts all the time.

Shows how wrong your theory is…. Guests decide to join so they can tell you you're wrong.

I'm through with you guys. I have countered everything, and no matter what OIP says, you can look back… I have countered it all. I have explained that there is NO 100% fact that Luffy and Zoro have been PROVED equal. There have been hints... yes, but nothing has been proven.

You haven't countered this

The chart is the original, all other graphs are fan created. Your theory depends on the fan created ones, this is your flaw. If you just read the info off the chart it shows luffy and zoro's bars are exactly the same length.

There are hundreds of positions in which the bar may be stopped, which is your theory ( Oda had the power to stop zoro's bar at 5.5 if zoro's strength was this) Oda just didn't do that since zoro is stronger.

And have failed to prove luffy and zoro's best wasn't equal, which is impossible to disprove since it was shown in the manga.

My theory shows a way of which Oda could have created his chart. Shows a way that 6 doesn't neccesarily equal 6 in the chart, because it's value may be different. Oda has never explained his method, therefore it is all speculation. No matter how much you say 6=6 on the chart… it is SPECULATION UNTIL YOU PROVE THE VALUE OF 6 TO ME.

The method of a chart is quite simple if you need it explained you might as well paint I am stupid on your forehead.

I'm done with this worthless debate. You guys are unbelievable. I'm doing the smart thing now… and waiting for a better time.

I like that other guys saying, I think I'll leave the insane to their insanity

Penkanuin

@$abZ:

I'm through with you guys. I have countered everything, and no matter what OIP says, you can look back… I have countered it all. I have explained that there is NO 100% fact that Luffy and Zoro have been PROVED equal. There have been hints... yes, but nothing has been proven.

My theory shows a way of which Oda could have created his chart. Shows a way that 6 doesn't neccesarily equal 6 in the chart, because it's value may be different. Oda has never explained his method, therefore it is all speculation. No matter how much you say 6=6 on the chart… it is SPECULATION UNTIL YOU PROVE THE VALUE OF 6 TO ME.

As I've read, most of what you have countered with is with your hypothesis. It's completely baseless. I don't see how you can justify, "It's not clear that 6=6 because I don't think that's what Oda did." Clearly, Oda did just that. 6 is 6 as 5 is 5. Your imaginary, 'what if' system isn't proof of anything. It cannot be used as a valid point in an arguement.

You haven't supported your hypothesis with anything solid. It's all speculation, as you said. As far as is presented, i.e. Zoro's best attack being equal with Luffy's best attack, they are equal. That's supported by it actually happening in the manga. Do we know that one wouldn't have taken over the other if the fight had continued? No, absolutely not. We can take away some tidbits from the little that did happen though. Until you can prove that 6 does not equal 6, no matter how many times you say it, it is purely speculation.

fixius

@$abZ:

That's why I'll do the smart thing and wait for a quote, instead of countering things you guys have written… which is based on a chart which hasn't even been explained by Oda himself. A fight that never finished, so we would never have knwon who would have gotten the edge.

that is the smart thing to do,sometime in the story it will be said in the manga

I'm done with this worthless debate. You guys are unbelievable. I'm doing the smart thing now… and waiting for a better time.

ok though you keep this thread alive by posting and all the others just quote you

remember your words:

I'm done with this worthless debate

don't come back to quote OiP,you said you were off

bye bye!!!!!

Gaiyae

Why do people even want there favorite Mugiwara to be stronger then the other anyway.. Does it matter?

Zoro will never have the dex that Usopp has.
Althought there are some fanboys out there that believe if you gave Zoro a gun he would be better with it then Usopp :getlost:
Sanji could never navigate as good as Nami.
Luffy will never be able to master the sword as good as Zoro etc..

Why even bother about this if there hasnt really been a REAL battle. And i mean a real battle with a outcome, not something that stopped right in the middle even with having used there best atacks.

Nauykuyr

First off, Sabz actually has a valid point with the chart. It's maximum number is 6. This means there's no room for improvement or that the chart was a fixed size.

If you ever read movie reviews, they list movies as 1 through 4 or 5 stars. 5 stars being the maximum does not mean all 5 star movies are equal.

Secondly, the 6 only meansphysical strength. OneInchPunch LIED along with Whitebeard and that other banned forum lackey about the chart saying they were equal in fighting ability. It turns out the chart said nothing about fighting ability. Anyone who uses the chart to state they are in equal in fighting ability are speculating or lying. No one bothered to translate it to its actual meaning during the previous thread, so I did.

Having physical strength does not make you equal in anything but physical strength. If the chart were to be taken literally, Zoro should be a better fighter than Luffy (Zoro > Luffy), which has yet to be seen in the manga (in fact the opposite is being shown). Sabz has been trying to tell you that the chart isn't literal. He's right.

i think luffy is definetely stronger than zolo. Why else would kishi make luffy fight all the "bosses"(i.e. crocidile, enel, lucci, etc) while zolo fights the second strongest or the sidekick (i.e kaku, mr. 1 etc )? And with zolo fighting with only 2 swords now and with luffy having the gears, Luffy is stronger.

ONEinchPUNCH

@Nauykuyr:

First off, Sabz actually has a valid point with the chart. It's maximum number is 6. This means there's no room for improvement or that the chart was a fixed size.

If you ever read movie reviews, they list movies as 1 through 4 or 5 stars. 5 stars being the maximum does not mean all 5 star movies are equal.

You miss this?

@Penkanuin:

As I've read, most of what you have countered with is with your hypothesis. It's completely baseless. I don't see how you can justify, "It's not clear that 6=6 because I don't think that's what Oda did." Clearly, Oda did just that. 6 is 6 as 5 is 5. Your imaginary, 'what if' system isn't proof of anything. It cannot be used as a valid point in an arguement.

You haven't supported your hypothesis with anything solid. It's all speculation, as you said. As far as is presented, i.e. Zoro's best attack being equal with Luffy's best attack, they are equal. That's supported by it actually happening in the manga. Do we know that one wouldn't have taken over the other if the fight had continued? No, absolutely not. We can take away some tidbits from the little that did happen though. Until you can prove that 6 does not equal 6, no matter how many times you say it, it is purely speculation.

Secondly, the 6 only meansphysical strength. OneInchPunch LIED along with Whitebeard and that other banned forum lackey about the chart saying they were equal in fighting ability. It turns out the chart said nothing about fighting ability. Anyone who uses the chart to state they are in equal in fighting ability are speculating or lying. No one bothered to translate it to its actual meaning during the previous thread, so I did.

Having physical strength does not make you equal in anything but physical strength. If the chart were to be taken literally, Zoro should be a better fighter than Luffy (Zoro > Luffy), which has yet to be seen in the manga (in fact the opposite is being shown). Sabz has been trying to tell you that the chart isn't literal. He's right.

Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world, now if it only meant physical strength he'd just be some strong man. In all manga's strength means fighting ability and oda has proven this in his own manga.

Also releasing the red book and showing whitebeard at almost the exact same time is no coincidence. Strength is in whitebeards name and it's in the red data book, that is no coincidence.

Might as well add this part too

The chart is the original, all other graphs are fan created. $abz theory depends on the fan created ones, this is his flaw. If you just read the info off the chart it shows luffy and zoro's bars are exactly the same length.

There are hundreds of positions in which the bar may be stopped, which is $abz theory ( Oda had the power to stop zoro's bar at 5.5 if zoro's strength was this) Oda just didn't do that since zoro is stronger.

And $abz has failed to prove luffy and zoro's best wasn't equal, which is impossible to disprove since it was shown in the manga.

Nauykuyr

Whitebeard is the most 強い (strongest, toughest)　man in the world. That is NOT what it says in the data book. Luffy and Zoro are both 6 in 力, which translated by itself and upon a person, refers to physical power and strength. Whitebeard's strength is different from what the databook is referring to. You keep making shit up.

At first I took your translation as fact, but when I looked it up myself, it turns out you guys were lying about the translation. It is not canon that Luffy and Zoro are equal in fighting strength. It is not supported by the databook, so please do not use the data book to refer to fighting strength as a fact. It is mere speculation.

For an explaination fo the difference:

When studying Panda, Suzuki Sensei would always ask for “Tsuyoi”. In fact, he would often say “Chikara jyanai” or “Chikara dame” meaning:
That kind of strength (force) is not right. Force is useless.
“Chikara” is physical strength. It is “katai” meaning hard or brittle. It is easily broken. “Tsuyoi” is “Jyusui” or pure. It is brave, yielding and true strength.

Radical jack

@ONEinchPUNCH:

You miss this?

Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world, now if it only meant physical strength he'd just be some strong man. In all manga's strength means fighting ability and oda has proven this in his own manga.

Also releasing the red book and showing whitebeard at almost the exact same time is no coincidence. Strength is in whitebeards name and it's in the red data book, that is no coincidence.

Might as well add this part too

The chart is the original, all other graphs are fan created. $abz theory depends on the fan created ones, this is his flaw. If you just read the info off the chart it shows luffy and zoro's bars are exactly the same length.

There are hundreds of positions in which the bar may be stopped, which is $abz theory ( Oda had the power to stop zoro's bar at 5.5 if zoro's strength was this) Oda just didn't do that since zoro is stronger.

And $abz has failed to prove luffy and zoro's best wasn't equal, which is impossible to disprove since it was shown in the manga.

How do you know whitebeard isn't physically the strongest man in the world and and the comes to fighting wise? And how do you know it doesn't account for being captain of the strongest crew? you use a title in a fictional story to change a meaning of a universal word.That title has nothing to do with a graph

Kishido

Well… we will see it... The scales say that Zoro and Luffy = equal but I think in the manga it seems more Luffy over Zoro and he is near Sanji who is a 5...

I mean just look at the match set-ups

Sanji's and Zoro's opponents are always near equal... They both defeat it with ledder effort than Luffy... But his are over the top

SuperStar

@Radical:

How do you know whitebeard isn't physically the strongest man in the world and and the comes to fighting wise? And how do you know it doesn't account for being captain of the strongest crew? you use a title in a fictional story to change a meaning of a universal word.That title has nothing to do with a graph

Well, I see where your coming from. Whitebeard is the strongest because he tied the Pirate King, which suggests overall power.

Nauykuyr

Guys, please read my explanation of strengths in my last post. Whitebeard might be the strongest man in the world physically, but the word used to describe him means more than just physical strength. If you want a more clear explanation and more examples, please refer to my thread on the topic:
http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=11958

Radical jack

@Nauykuyr:

Guys, please read my explanation of strengths in my last post. Whitebeard might be the strongest man in the world physically, but the word used to describe him means more than just physical strength. If you want a more clear explanation and more examples, please refer to my thread on the topic:
http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=11958

exactly

16 characters

fixius

if the strongest man is only physical strong then why do you bother arguing zoro isn't as strong as luffy???

Ronaldinho

So this discussion is still going on? Well, the only support that Zoro = Luffy is the Whiskey Peak fight that I think isn't enough and it was also way back. I also remember you saying OIP that Oda would include the strength of each character in the yellow book if it does change. Well, he didn't do it so does this still mean Chopper=Usopp. Nami< Usopp and Chopper?
Also, here is another hint from Oda that Luffy>everyone else on his crew:

Sanji: If he's(Lucci) together with Robin-chan,
we should at least let Luffy go ahead.
Luffy! You go on and beat the Pigeon Man!!

http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-2/chapter400scanlation.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=6055

Angel emfrbl

Whatever the strength, this is just one of the given stats by Oda. ALongside fighting styles and one Manga fight that ended before it really began there are many other factors to consider.

Based on threat level, Luffy's wanted poster indicates he is more dangerous (note: I did not say strong as bounties = not strength) then Zoro would be.

On storyline, outside of fights, Luffy says near the end of EL as captain he has to be strong enough to defend the rest of his crew, this includes Zoro. Now to Luffy Zoro is his "first mate" or depending the translation his champion/partner. Basically whatever you say, Zoro is the guy Luffy has to rely on to back him up on things.

So reguardless on whether he is strong enough to best Luffy or not, his position on the crew is no.2, he is not the captain. In One Piece… The captain is almost always the strongest fighter. Yeah there are exceptions... Gin and Krieg for example (Gin turned out to be the stronger of the two). Zoro will end up always being second best reguardless of how they fair in the fight.

And then there is their dreams... Zoro is aiming for strongest sword fighter... Luffy is aiming for something higher.

ONEinchPUNCH

@Nauykuyr:

Guys, please read my explanation of strengths in my last post. Whitebeard might be the strongest man in the world physically, but the word used to describe him means more than just physical strength. If you want a more clear explanation and more examples, please refer to my thread on the topic:
http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=11958

No matter what you say strength in manga's always means overall strength, just how whitebeard proves this.

Kma

You guys want to know why I think Luffy and Zoro are equals? Its because those two understand each other the most and are most similar when it comes to warrior code, honour, etc

Both fight for their dreams. Zoro and Luffy have always understood each others about battles. They never interfere and like Zoro said you cannot show someone who is looking for a fight mercy or else you would be practically spitting on their determination (Chapter where Luffy fights Usopp, Luffy knew too that when the situation came to this he couldnt show Usopp mercy)

Also let me ask you something. If Zoro's dream is to become the STRONGEST in something then the only way to improve is to challenge others that claim to be stronger. (in one of links it with Burgess, shows he dosent care if its a swordsman or not).

Let me tell you something it dosent matter Zoro is a swordsman. HE CANNOT CALL HIMSELF THE GREATEST SWORDSMAN IF HE CANT BEAT PEOPLE THAT ARE WEAKER THEN MIHAWK, REGARDLESS OF FIGHTING STYLE. If he wants to use Luffy as a stepping stone I think he would.

Here are some links as to why I think Luffy = Zoro, and Oda does subtle hints too. Look until Zoro BECOMES THE STRONGEST SWORDSMAN IT DOSENT MAKE SENSE TO HAVE SOMEONE BESIDE YOU STRONGER THEN YOU. THEM NOT BEING A SWORDSMAN IS NOT AN EXCUSE!

You guys should KNOW! YOU ARE GUYS RIGHT! YOU HAVE BALLS DONT YOU! YOU ARE FUCKING COMPETITVE! ITS A THING CALLED TESTOSTERONE, IT MAKES US FRICKING STUPID! I FOR AS HELL WONT LET THE PEOPLE WHO I TRAIN (Sanshou, Martial arts, Rugby) WITH BE BETTER THEN ME. SAME THING HERE, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING ZORO'S PERSONALITY. THEY ARE NOT FRICKING PANSIES, THEY STRIVE TO BE THE BEST! (Im sure you would understand if you related this to sports you play or something.)

ODA KNOWS THIS. IN THE MANGA HES ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT BEING A MAN AND A MAN'S CODE OF HONOUR!

Please take a look at these links:

What I found as hints from Oda

1
2
3
4
5 compare with 5a
and 6
7
8
9 (like I said, they understand each other the most, Luffy thinks Zoro to be his equal)
10 Oda hinting
11

AND FINALLY

12 Shows that Zoro will start a fight.

yes I am speculating but just as much as you guys are.

Ronaldinho

Kma, that whole post was speculation and you seem to make Zoro to be the main character after Luffy which isn't true. Luffy is the main character and Chopper\Usopp\Robin\Nami\Franky|Sanji are as important as Zoro.

ONEinchPUNCH

@Ronaldinho:

Kma, that whole post was speculation and you seem to make Zoro to be the main character after Luffy which isn't true. Luffy is the main character and Chopper\Usopp\Robin\Nami\Franky|Sanji are as important as Zoro.

Well you lot seem to prefer speculation since you ignore things that have actually happened.

NO-ONE IN THE WORLD CAN DENY LUFFY AND ZORO'S BEST MOVE'S IN THEIR FIGHT WEREN'T EQUAL.

The manga will always prove this fact and no matter what anyone else thinks, the manga is above all. So unless anyone has any actual proof of them not being equal, this argument is over.

Kma

@Ronaldinho:

Kma, that whole post was speculation and you seem to make Zoro to be the main character after Luffy which isn't true. Luffy is the main character and Chopper\Usopp\Robin\Nami\Franky|Sanji are as important as Zoro.

Zoro and Luffy are similar because they strive to be the best. Oda introduced Zoro so early with such a big ambition alongside Luffy, because more or less, Zoro is the 2nd main character, and yes even more so then the rest of the Strawhats.

Ronaldinho

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Well you lot seem to prefer speculation since you ignore things that have actually happened.

NO-ONE IN THE WORLD CAN DENY LUFFY AND ZORO'S BEST MOVE'S IN THEIR FIGHT WEREN'T EQUAL.

The manga will always prove this fact and no matter what anyone else thinks, the manga is above all. So unless anyone has any actual proof of them not being equal, this argument is over.

Well, I posted something but you seem to have ignored it which is ok.

Zoro and Luffy are similar because they strive to be the best. Oda introduced Zoro so early with such a big ambition alongside Luffy, because more or less, Zoro is the 2nd main character, and yes even more so then the rest of the Strawhats.

This has to be the most stupid thing I've ever heard. That's like FFA saying that Robin, Zoro and Luffy are the main characters while the other are just following and are just another Kuririn.

Kma

@Ronaldinho:

Well, I posted something but you seem to have ignored it which is ok.

This has to be the most stupid thing I've ever heard. That's like FFA saying that Robin, Zoro and Luffy are the main characters while the other are just following and are just another Kuririn.

There is a hierachy of character importance. Accept it.

Ronaldinho

@Kma:

There is a hierachy of character importance. Accept it.

That is, if a person is a fanboy of a character and can't accept that other characters are as much important as the person's favorite character.

Kma

uh look at my avatar. also notice how I made an amv of luffy not zoro

Ok do you even read stories, watch movies, books or other manga? every character other then the main character arent equal.

lets look at a few examples…

did you watch the TMNT movie? id say Raphael was more important then Don and Mike
Aragon from LOTR, he had more importance then the dwarf and elf
coutless manga and Anime

Naruto- Shikmaru seems to have more importance then others right now
Bleach - cant really remenber names just take a look at the cast
Eyeshield 21- Id say Monta has more importance then that small lineman (forgot name)
Digimon (season 1) - Tai and Matt were more important then the other 5, actually the trend continues for all other seasons

You know what if you want another example just pick up a book or another manga or something.

Also stop acting childish and calling me names such as "fanboy" or "stupid." Cause really your the one thats acting ignorant.

EDIT: Also I would like to say that I know we have a guy that likes Sanji here and I want to say I consider Sanji of equal importance to Zoro (actually maybe a bit less because of his dream).

In fact in my book my fav characters are Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, maybe Luffy a bit more then the others. I just really Zoro and Sanji's personality.

In fact I really think that Luffy=Zoro=Sanji.

well not EXACTLY equal but in a real fight anything can happen and making excuses is not an excuse

SuperStar

This post is deleted!

fixius

This post is deleted!

ONEinchPUNCH

@Ronaldinho:

Well, I posted something but you seem to have ignored it which is ok.

No

What you posted doesn't prove that zoro and luffys best moves weren't equal. And none of your posts ever will because it isn't possible.

And don't bother criticising kma's post as it's lightyears ahead of yours

fixius

@ONEinchPUNCH:

No

What you posted doesn't prove that zoro and luffys best moves weren't equal. And none of your posts ever will because it isn't possible.

And don't bother criticising kma's post as it's lightyears ahead of yours

i agree,Kma has become one great poster

Penkanuin

I understood that the strength being talked about was physical strength. I didn't realize that everyone was trying to argue that it was overall fighting ability. Knowing that now…this is kind of dumb. No one is about to persuade anyone else of something other than what they want to believe, so I'd suggest that it just be dropped now.

This post is deleted!

Radical jack

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Well you lot seem to prefer speculation since you ignore things that have actually happened.

NO-ONE IN THE WORLD CAN DENY LUFFY AND ZORO'S BEST MOVE'S IN THEIR FIGHT WEREN'T EQUAL.

The manga will always prove this fact and no matter what anyone else thinks, the manga is above all. So unless anyone has any actual proof of them not being equal, this argument is over.

1.They did the BEST MOVE ONCE in that fight

2.They continued the fight after that

3.It was 200 chps ago

4.They both discovered multiple moves that are stronger than those attacks

5.You are basing to much on "best move".Luffy beat krieg,kuro,and arlong with different moves.Same goes for zoro

6.If two boxers best moves are the left hook and it didn't work,Are you saying it ends in a tie?

7.You fail.Let kma handle your work.

Edit:8.Oh and nami broke up the fight my knocking them out
@Kma

You bring up good points but everybody knows luffy and zoro are the main fighters and the most popular characters in one piece.I can also post pics portraying how luffy is the strongest.(just need time to look and collect.)
There are also just as much evidence stating sanji is equal to zoro,going by scans

fixius

@Radical:

1.They did the BEST MOVE ONCE in that fight

2.They continued the fight after that

3.It was 200 chps ago

4.They both discovered multiple moves that are stronger than those attacks

5.You are basing to much on "best move".Luffy beat krieg,kuro,and arlong with different moves.Same goes for zoro

6.If two boxers best moves are the left hook and it didn't work,Are you saying it ends in a tie?

7.You fail.Let kma handle your work.

Edit:8.Oh and nami broke up the fight my knocking them out
@Kma

You bring up good points but everybody knows luffy and zoro are the main fighters and the most popular characters in one piece.I can also post pics portraying how luffy is the strongest.(just need time to look and collect.)
There are also just as much evidence stating sanji is equal to zoro,going by scans

i agree totally in number 3,it was a long time ago,gears demon ki and diamble jamb has confused things up and i wished one piece yellow revealed some info about them

ONEinchPUNCH

@Radical:

1.They did the BEST MOVE ONCE in that fight

And what happened? I like who you fail to mention that part

2.They continued the fight after that

3.It was 200 chps ago

4.They both discovered multiple moves that are stronger than those attacks

Yeah there the only two strawhats who've developed a new state, their both still on the same level.

5.You are basing to much on "best move".Luffy beat krieg,kuro,and arlong with different moves.Same goes for zoro

Nice subject change, doesn't disprove luffy and zoro's best being equal.

6.If two boxers best moves are the left hook and it didn't work,Are you saying it ends in a tie?

Two boxers using named attacks!?!! THIS IS MANGA NOT REAL LIFE, in life it is impossible for two people to be equal

7.You fail.Let kma handle your work.

You always fail all people have to do is check the other threads where you came out with nonsense.

Edit:8.Oh and nami broke up the fight my knocking them out

Still doesn't prove their best wasn't equal, you running out of idea's?

There are also just as much evidence stating sanji is equal to zoro,going by scans

Too bad their isn't a fight showing their best moves being equal and a data book confirming it.

wolfwood

man is this topic still going ? and it hasnt moved an inch since i left

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Yeah there the only two strawhats who've developed a new state, their both still on the same level.

Oi oi oi whats about Sanji ? ya know that those burning feet is just as much a new state as Luffys gears or Zoros Demon thingy

Radical jack

And what happened? I like who you fail to mention that part

They attacks nullified.Big deal they continued to fight afterward like I said

Yeah there the only two strawhats who've developed a new state, their both still on the same level.

yeah they both developed a new state. So? how does that prove them being equal?If ussop suddenly trasformed into a bucket of rancid piss,That would mean he would be equal to them?

Nice subject change, doesn't disprove luffy and zoro's best being equal.

It proves your best best moves theory is irrelevent.Please don't use it anymore.you sound dumb

Two boxers using named attacks!?!! THIS IS MANGA NOT REAL LIFE, in life it is impossible for two people to be equal

Going by what you saying just cause two attacks ended in a struggle it means their equal?even in manga that doesn't make sense….Btw you know whats funny Luffy used his regular pistol move after the bazooka

You always fail all people have to do is check the other threads where you came out with nonsense.

Is it nonsense? Or are you just living in denial and supressing rage.

Too bad their isn't a fight showing their best moves being equal and a data book confirming it.

when did the data book explain that those were their best moves and they were equal? Guess I missed that

Kma

Haha thanks guys

@Radical Jack

Dorry and Broggy. They tied like what over 1000 fights?

Also Im not trying to get in an argument with anyone just stating as how I see it. You're stating yours and I understand that.

Like I said in my post. I AM SPECULATING, BUT WE ALL ARE.

also like I said I do think that Sanji and Zoro are basically equals.