I expected worse from The Ostrich Power Hour.
! Clara was fine. Acted like a decent person for one.
Danny…eh. I don't know, he was fine, but he is no Rory. It's a good start, I guess.
The Doctor overdid it with soldier hate.
Dalek-Spider-Mass Effect-Owl has Stormtrooper Syndrome.
Courtney is already better than Angie as far as annoying kids go. But there is still no reason for spiders not to eat her.
8/10 - everyone is selfish.
Yeah, that was a good episode. Not as good as last week, but still good for me.
! I knew they were probably gonna do the Danny reveal this week, so I know they have to do the drama and emotional element and all that, but I guess I wish they'd done it in a bit more interesting way. Still, I enjoyed it.
Nice episode, could've been much worse.
! The Danny reveal was done well, I think, but I do agree that the Doctor's hatred of soldiers is slightly over the top. I hope it at least develops into something held throughout his tenure, but it should at least be an interesting aspect to be noted when he interacts with actual soldiers from now on.
Praise our king, First fist of the Sea, DonMarimo DoBuggino exploring Bonesbeard.
If someone seriously claimed that Whitebeard was running a vibrator business as his second job you'd ignore him as a troll.
@krule274:
Nice episode, could've been much worse.
! The Danny reveal was done well, I think, but I do agree that the Doctor's hatred of soldiers is slightly over the top. I hope it at least develops into something held throughout his tenure, but it should at least be an interesting aspect to be noted when he interacts with actual soldiers from now on.
Apart from his natural dislike that he's always had, there might be an element of self-hatred in it.
He has only just finished fighting a thousand year war after all.
Apart from his natural dislike that he's always had, there might be an element of self-hatred in it.
He has only just finished fighting a thousand year war after all.
But…there were no soldiers in that war...?
He just protected human settlement from various aliens.
How is that even different from what he usually does?
But…there were no soldiers in that war...?
He just protected human settlement from various aliens.
How is that even different from what he usually does?
Well that and also the Time War…remember Grumpy?
Well that and also the Time War…remember Grumpy?
And three guys between Grumpy and Grumpy 2 had no problem working with different kinds of military.
Not before they found out Gallifrey is safe, nor after.
His daughter was a soldier.
Well, its not really that uncommon for the Doctor's forms to be more exaggerated in certain regards than others. One of the older Doctors used a giant alien gun I think, but then you have David's Doctor protesting to the point of not even holding it til he had too. Though, this might've been because he was fresh from the war.
So this Doctor hates soldiers more than ever, or at least he's not more vocal about it.
I loved this episode. I like Danny, mostly because he's similar to Rory in the, I'm not that impressed camp. Plus, I don't know but their realtionship seems really genuine for me. Like there is a way the two are in their scenes together and you see how they're a couple.
I have this theory that the Doctor either conciously or sub-conciously re-invents hismelf everytime he regenerates. Thats why he has new quirks. Its not that he's been hypocritical, he's doing what everyone would do if they had a second chance at life. Do it different. Only he's the Doctor so he'll have random loves and hates.
Cute episode though I'm really sick of the Doctor messing with his companions' love lives subplots that Moffat recycles over and over. Also am I the only one uncomfortable and slightly offended by the Doctor's irrational hatred of soldiers? Because soldiers are all brutal killing machines and not brave men and women who sacrfice their lives for their countries. And I'm not a patriot but his antics with Dany were really douchey and uncalled for. Yes, you can argue he's being self-loathing but the episode doesn't really call him out on his bullshit. And I really don't buy the "Well that's how this new Doctor is" tripe. If the Doctor starting kicking puppies, I don't think that excuse would fly.
Am I the only one who thought Danny's flip over the robot was a little too forced? Didn't really seem too solider like. Episode was alright, but the little montage at the beginning was the best part imo.
A..a salto ?! Don't know what to think of this episode. The comedy in the first part was great. But once the Robot entered the school I got really bored. Not my favorite episode of the season.
He's had a problem with soldiers at least since Unit and the Silurians as the third doctor.
More recently, the 10th Doctor much care for the soldiers in Poison Sky or Planet of the Dead. Nor did the 11th care much for the soldiers in Flesh and Stone. And, of course, the 9th Doctor was a miserable sod who hated everyone. This is a trait with some root in the classic Doctor that's been amplified in the new series and in particular with this Doctor.
Even before Trenzalore, the Doctor's name had become synonymous with "soldier" (at least in the language of the people of the Gamma Forest). Moffat clearly indicated in the 3 doctors special that each Doctor's personality is in some way a reaction to (or rebuke of) the last one. This Doctor knows he's been too soldier-like and doesn't want to be a soldier anymore, so he hates soldiers. Even if that means hating himself. Especially himself, now that he's officially recognizing War Doctor and everything he did, instead of pretending that never happened… and having lived a millenia as 11 fighting one constant battle. Between that particular life, and the War Doctor (however long that was... it was enough to age into an old man... so probably hundreds of years... enough that he reset the age he told people after)... of course he's fritzing against soldiers.
Regeneration shuffles some traits and memories and opinions. Stuff that was more subdued can come more to the forefront, and things can be treated differently. Eleven said "Apples are rubbish," but Twelve is seen clearly eating and enjoying one in Robot of Sherwood. How it goes.
Aside from that, I'm finally settling in on Capaldi. They aren't writing him as constantly angry/cold, just more where its appropriate I guess?
I loved it too, Capaldi was on fire in this! I don't think I've laughed so much since "Closing Time" (another Gareth Roberts episode), but also some really hard-hitting moments exploring who the Doctor is to Clara.
i09 has a good article on it, I actually missed that he mentioned Artron energy - and points out that the reason the robot was there in the first place is in fact the Doctor's fault to begin with. http://io9.com/with-this-episode-doctor-who-season-8-starts-to-pay-of-1639820605
It's also maybe worth noting that Brigadier Lethrbridge-Stewart also became a math teacher; not sure if that's just coincidence.
The whole thing with creating the war Doctor, then blocking him out of his memory, creating "The man who regrets" and "The man who forgets", it's a lot like Dissociative Identity disorder. When he chose to forget War's existence, he blocked out a lot of memories and feelings. Now that' he's accepted his existence, he has to re-integrate a big chunk of his life back into his identity and deal with it. So he didn't destroy Gallifrey - I highly doubt he spent hundreds of those years of the time war sipping Sherry and reading. The fact that destroying his own people was the only thing he could think of to do at the time to save the universe says a lot. Don't forget the Time Lords are pretty terrible themselves… remember what Six said in Trial of a Time Lord: "In all my travellings throughout the universe I have battled against evil, against power-mad conspirators. I should have stayed here. The oldest civilisation, decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Ha! Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans, Cybermen, they're still in the nursery compared to us. Ten million years of absolute power, that's what it takes to be really corrupt."
"She needs three mirrors"
Maybe I'm off in lala land here, but someone brought up an audio drama from 2004 featuring the 8th Doctor in which he is split into 3 different aspects of himself. One is goofy, naive, childish and fun, which they call "Tigger", then there is another one that is angry, amoral, pragmatic, and bitter, and they call him "Eeyore", then a fairly normal, compassionate, intellectual doctor. Eeyore needs to be kept in check by the other two aspects to keep him from going too far. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? I know Moffat is fan of this stuff, he essentially canonized the 8th Doctor's audio companions in "Night of the Doctor". Maybe he's actually lost or buried part of himself….or has been split
'Kill the Moon'
! I'm in two minds about this one.
! On the one hand, I loved it. The first half was seriously tense and very Alien in feel. Speaking of which, I'm adoring how alien Capaldi's Doctor is. Does feel like the goofy Matt Smith act has been dropped (for all its fun) and he's now being entirely honest, which is why it now feels you can't trust him as much. The feel and the pacing were both on form for me, and I am over the moon (ha ha…no? oh well) about Courtney Woods. Not only is she fantastic, but she feels very real - both in her desperate bravado fighting off spidergerm (does whatever a spidergerm does) and her admission that she is terrified. I've known many a girl like her. But not in mainstream sci-fi - especially over here. So to see a working class black girl who is basically told she has no future, and to take her to the Future is one of the best things the show has done in years. Certainly makes a change from last year's Clara - even if this year's Clara is much stronger, and her relationships with the Doctor and Danny are almost surprisingly powerful.
! And yes, the science was so hammy that I swear I heard it oink, but it felt almost beside the point given this is Doctor Who, and the rest of the stuff going on was good enough that you're just about willing to overlook how a newly-hatched creature can lay an egg bigger than itself, not to say anything about the planetary science.
! But I'm also feeling really kind of uncomfortable with the analogy being made by the central dilemma. Okay, so perhaps they really had no idea they were doing an abortion analogy, but it felt close enough that if they didn't, someone really should have told them (incidentally, this one had an all-male writing, directing and producing team). As such, it kind of felt a bit pro-life preachy towards the end, and having that show up in Who made me feel pretty uncomfortable.
! So I'd rate this as one of my favourite episodes of Who in ages, but only if the analogy being made, deliberately or not, is entirely overlooked.
moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon
Moon is Kill
! On, screw you, Clara Oswald. You are little, tiny, silly and predictable.
I could go on a rant about special snowflakes and people who can't stand the thought that who you are doesn't matter, it's what you do what matters in the grand scheme of things, but what would be the point?
! And the moon is Mothra full of spiders. That's cool i guess.
Another good episode (honestly, this season's having a pretty good run so far). Though, admittedly, I think the first half was stronger than the second half.
! Like Print Error said, the hamminess of the science fiction and dramatic stuff (voting by seeing how many people turned their lights off? Really?) is kind of besides the point, but it still bugged me a bit. Also, not sure how to feel about Clara getting upset with The Doctor afterwards.
! Well, on the plus side, I love the idea of the moon actually being an egg. That was a pretty cool twist.
@Print:
! But I'm also feeling really kind of uncomfortable with the analogy being made by the central dilemma. Okay, so perhaps they really had no idea they were doing an abortion analogy, but it felt close enough that if they didn't, someone really should have told them (incidentally, this one had an all-male writing, directing and producing team). As such, it kind of felt a bit pro-life preachy towards the end, and having that show up in Who made me feel pretty uncomfortable.
! Personally, I don't really see that. This episode wasn't really about whether an unborn being has the right to life or not, but about weighing one life against possibly the entire race. I think the dilemma would've been the same whether the creature was unborn or not.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, was really hoping we'd get another historical next week, but it looks like it's gonna be the Space Orient Express. Just like the Space Titanic.
Dead Moon Baby:
! This was one of the three episodes I was looking forward to the most this season, and I'll say it was worth my anticipation. I agree with most everyone else saying that the second half wasn't as great as the first, but overall I thought it was still excellent.
! I can almost(not really) see things from Clara's point of view, but to me, her anger was so incredibly unjustified. She's stuck in the Smith days, which is just so unfair. Had this been 11, he would have told everyone what was going on, they would have watched the hatch, and la di fucking da, they skip back the TARDIS and the curtain closes as they find themselves stuck in another silly predicament(not that I'm dissing Smith, he was amazing and everyone should love him). My point is that Clara just isn't living up to her word, meaning she lied to us. What was the point in her yelling at Vastra after being called shallow and saying she wasn't judging the Doctor for being different? Because that's how I perceive her reaction: she's judging his decision making(or lack thereof). I'll admit that it may have seemed uncool at the time, but as Clara herself has said numerous times, "He's never let me down." So you think he would now? Just because he left for an hour? Hell, he did the same thing in Deep Breath, and he popped back in in a clever disguise and saved her ass like he always does. So why would this time be any different? What simply made her lose faith? The fact that he gave her the choice IS respectful, whether she views it that way or not.
! In fact, I really love that about this episode, and the fight in general. He didn't do it all himself all quick and witty like we've had for the last three and a half years or so(again, I love Matt Smith). He gave the humans the choice. Well, I guess we kind of had that in the Silurian two-part from season five, but that didn't have much chance of resulting in the death of an entire race. I may be taking it to a bit of an extreme, but I believe what the Doctor did was completely justified and courteous, and Clara's overreaction was just unfair and out of place.
! And I'm willing to ignore the illogical new egg nonsense, but why couldn't there just not be a moon now? It's a fictional TV show, what would it matter if there just wasn't a moon after 2049?
After my migraine and initial emotional outburst passed, I'm ready for more coherent opinion.
First of all, elephant in the room: Clara.
! She is wrong, clear as day. She chooses between survival of humankind and survival of spider-spawning-giant-alien-thingy-thing. Why is it even a choice? As a human who doesn't know consequences of this creature hatching, it's very weird from her to consider that life of the creature is worth 10 billion human lives.
And so far "beautiful alien baby" only created tsunamis and spawned giant spiders.
! It's not even like Beast Below, where alien creature was innocent and tortured by humans. and even then the Doctor himself considered killing it so UK could go on. Not even whole humanity, just UK.
! Miss Oswald suddely turns half-Tumblr half-Greenpeace and is willing to risk it. Ok - creature is benevolent and nothing happened, and it even instantly created the moon, so Clara was right, but you can't say captain's worries were unjustified.
And one surely can't blame humanity (which despite catastrophic tidal waves ravaging half of the world still watches tv, and even have tv, and is able to turn of the lights…ok, that was beautiful imagery, but it's less possible than moon being an egg).
who choose themselves over space insect. Did Clara really expected some other outcome?
! And then comes bitching. Great Important Not-Shallow Bossy Clara is hurt - because she nearly made wrong decision (was there even a right decision here?), and the Doctor is to blame somehow. She took the decisions in her hands before, quite willingly and arrogantly. She loves being in charge (Nightmare in Silver) after all since, unlike untrustworthy alien bastard the Doctor is, she knows better (Into the Dalek, Listen). And now she has to make an important choice, and that is how she reacts when Doctor doesn't guide her hand. There is no other way but to compare Amy and Clara here. Amy was in exact same situation - her (and other people) decision could have resulted in death of two races (or at least long bloody war). And I don't remember Amy bitching about that.
I don't know whether is she more hurt by him leaving her making this choice, or for "lumping her with silly tiny predictable people".
Ostrich goes more and more unlikeable, can't wait for new companion. Courtney
! She is spoiled and manipulative child, but at least she is pretty self-aware, I give her that. She is afraid of scary things, and doesn't bitch afterwards unlike person who she refused to call by first name. I like Courtney, not that she can became a companion now, but maybe in some time between she is fifteen and the time she is president.
Plot
! Makes no sense. Single-cellular organisms having limbs and mouths, egg shell disentegrating rigt after hatching, new egg growing in the matter of second, humanity being able to turn off every light in 20 minutes, old people not dying from flight on old spacecraft…
It's not why people watch DW but ew.
Kill the Moon didn't live up to the hype - 7/10
! Makes no sense. Single-cellular organisms having limbs and mouths, egg shell disentegrating rigt after hatching, new egg growing in the matter of second, humanity being able to turn off every light in 20 minutes, old people not dying from flight on old spacecraft…
It's not why people watch DW but ew.
I love scrutinizing DW as much as the next guy(and just did so in my above post), but I'm starting to get to the point where it's killing the experience for me. I mean, it's a sci-fi show that we all know and love, and I know this argument could be made for just about anything, but bitching about things totally ruins it. Sure, if there's something completely asinine, I'm down for pointing it out, laughing about it, and talking about it to death, but I just hate doing that to every little thing. And that's what I(and a bunch of people, apparently) do. And I don't mean to single you out, 'cause as I said, I've done the same thing a million times, but doesn't it make it less fun for you when you watch to think about shit like that? I honestly find some of it laughably unreasonable, like I'm sure you do, but when I let it get to me it just makes me not like to watch at all. I have so much more fun with the show when I just enjoy the wonderful nonsense(whoever tells me where that phrase came from gets a million dollars) taking place.
I don't know, this was more of me saying things about what I think more than a quote. Sorry to drag you into it.
@krule274:
…
Sorry for ruining your experience, I guess?
I just can't help noticing this stuff, especially when there is nothing much to praise. MST3K mantra and all that, but when DW stops being a silly romp and tries to prove some morality point and force character drama over plot it does lose 80% of the charm, and thats when single-cell spiders really shine. Funny thing, it's exactly the same with OP.
! So Clara would be fine with genociding the human race just so she can hatch herself a giant moon egg? Fuck. You. Clara. You make the environmentalists from the Marville comics look sane!!
!
Non Spoiler assessment.
I liked it - Capaldi is showing an awesome growth into the role of the Doctor now they are finally as I predicted moving him away from being the "Angry" Doctor to a more below the surface anger.
Clara as always is brilliant - for a character who made a decision to fall through the Doctors time stream and basically save him throughout his timeline as a fractured personality I think this is her starting to show the cracks. Where as before she was there to make a difference in his timeline in small intervals and often ended up dead sacrificing her life for his now she is the Companion and having to be a companion. The Doctor she sacrificed herself for has been replaced by someone who now knows the history of whats happened so they have a completely different relationship.
Courtney was good for a kid - but not quite the mix I think the show needs just now.
The show itself - very classic Doctor Who - would have prefered it not be Earth's Moon to be honest - I think then it would have made it slightly more enjoyable - I liked it when Classic Doctor Who would solve problems on other worlds. But I guess we're tied to Earth till Danny decides to start coming along.
! This episode was fucking stupid and offensive.
! Really, the moon is an egg, really? Maybe this plot would fly in the sixties when Who was a silly, goofy, badly budgeted cheesy show. But it's 2014, the show should really update itself at this point and not rip off plots from bad episodes of sixties cartoons. No really, this was an episode of Super Friends.
! http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-super-friends-villains-that-didnt-give-4023252A/
! Who is fucking stuck in the sixties without realizing this shit only worked when there was a cheesy, campy value but when you're a show with a budget, good effects (well in the case of Who, they're still bad but it's due to laziness not lack of technology) and melodramatic drama, in 2014, this shit don't fly anymore and calling out the science bullshit is perfectly okay. Because this is a science fiction show, good science is what it should be about. Like I can overlook plotholes to an extent, any science fiction lover can, but when your plot is the Moon is an egg, as far as I'm concerned, the writers have stopped giving a fuck.
! And that's just the plot that pissed me off, dissecting it further, holy shit is this episode stupid.
! "The Moon is made out of eggshell"
! No, it isn't Clara, it's made out of the same rocks as on our own planet. We know, we checked them.
! "Well, if there's no Moon, what's the worst that can happen"
! Everything Clara, the moon is kinda important for stabilizing the Earth's rotation, it's not just tides and the internet that would be fucked.
! "If you agree or not, turn your lights on, all of you, on planet Earth"
! …how the fuck does that even...
! And then the thing hatched and the "shell" conveniently disappeared and there was this weird dragon thing that looked nothing like a spider and the sky was clear yet there were still tides (and I checked that they were there before new moon popped up) and the editing was so bad because Dragon thing clearly left and there was no moon but next second there was a moon out of nowhere and the Doctor called it a new moon and ugh because puunnnnn ughhh.
! And I have not even gotten to the worst part of this episode, the part where they compare killing the giant egg thing...to abortion...
! Yes, they did, don't make excuses about "Well, it's not really about...", yes it fucking is. They compared it to a baby that was kicking, it was about fucking abortion and holy shit was I offended.
! I am anti-abortion but I also respect the hard choices and extenuating circumstances that would require a woman to make such a decision. But whether you're pro or against...trying to make an argument using fucking Alien spiders and moon eggs is just...what.
! I mean this is the central dilemma is Clara wants to save the horrible alien thing because abortion is wrong. What...stop comparing them, they're weird alien spider things, they've killed people, BURN THEM. But according to Clara, that's okay because "it was just the baby kicking"...tell that to their fucking families! They've killed people, blow them up! This is awful, stop comparing this tripe to such a sensitive issue, you have far from earned it, you have retroactively UNEARNED IT. There is no dilemma here. We as an audience, don't care whether the egg survives or not, quite the opposite, we want it dead but the show thinks that we're siding with Clara or that we're at least morally ambiguous, we're not, let it burn!
! ...
! If there's anything I kinda liked was Clara's breakdown at the end, one of the few people who liked it, because I felt it was justified and that the Doctor was acting like a twat letting the people stew just to prove a fucking point. It's a real shame because I was really liking Clara this season and Capaldi but holy shit, were they both awful in this.
! ...
ugh
I'm with TLC on this one, just not as intensely. I still could enjoy the episode, however silly it was.
! I don't like that child character though, but that's just me. I never like the cheeky kids in stories. Plus she didn't do anything noteworthy so there wasn't much of a point to her.
Did anybody else think that this "voting"-method was not only incredibly dumb, impossible and cheesy, but also inaccurate? You can't see the "whole world" from the moon, so only those who just had nighttime got a vote.
I didn't realize the abortion-parallel, but that's because I rarely think about stuff while I'm watching it, and afterwards everything was overshadowed by that… dragon-butterfly instantly laying an egg bigger as itself... without getting nourishment... after it just hatched... ugh.
It's a shame they didn't blow it up, the baby appearing in paradise squashing Missy and her oh-so-mysterious over-arc (is that the right word for that?) would have been worth the moral ambiguity.
Yohohohoho! I fund it pretty cute. Don't see how it was less realistic than the average episode, really.
! The good: Courtney is a young actor playing a child -and that's brilliant. Clara's initial protectiveness addresses a problem I had with last weeks episode and Courtney deals bluntly with a couple of the others.
! 2. The production values gave me a vibe of really old school and it worked in making this the first episode I've considered truly creepy in years.
! 3. The script was witty without being quippy, dialogue seemed much more natural and added all the drama missing from the moral dillemma to Clara's facedown at the end. Very tight. The tumblr line was cute.
! 4. The acting was excellent all around. Capaldi dialed it back to make the Doctor's choices seem not totally out of the blue.
Coleman got the bulk of the drama to play at the end of the episode and she really sold it.
Even the doomed astronauts played their roles without over-egging it.
! The bad:
1. The science. Ow. No amount of handwaving in the world could make any of that make any sense. The easy fix really would have been just to make it an alien world… or have something coming in from another dimension (the first would explain not noticed it was a giant egg, the second would have explained how sudden it was and the gain in mass.)
! [hide]As for the sudden increase in mass?
! It's simple: imply that there are multidimensional energies at work where the Space-Dragon in its "Egg" exists between our dimension and another but as the "Egg" moves closer to hatching it has to pass entirely into our world and mass suspended in a way between dimensions suddenly becomes fully gravitationally present in our own. That way all the Mass (including the nutrients contained within the "Egg" that the Space-Dragon fed on in order to grow) has been present all the time, it's just its dimensional placement that has shifted.
! A sudden lack of gravity (like in the scene with Courtney) could then be explained as a fluctuation in the energy fields between dimensions.
! This could also explain the "New Moon", not as being laid by the newly born Space Dragon (although I think there are supposedly some lifeforms that are born already pregnant) but as being the next egg out of an multidimensional egg laying canal (cloaca).
! And that's a texhnobabble explanation that took 5 minutes. If they spent a day on it, they could have made one that wasn't crap.[/hide]
! 2. The dilemma. The bit with turning the lights off was pretty 'clap so Tinkerbelle can live' when in any real world situation you know there'd be a man at the top ordering the powerstations turned off. It robbed that part of the story of punch.
If it had been that the choice was down to Clara and the astronaut it would've been truly dramatic.
! 3. Let's face it, the Doctor was completely out of character, talking about how he can't interfere. It's what he does!
Overall, I liked it.
I think in a lot of ways it boiled Doctor Who down to its very essence: dodgy science fiction that we watch for the character work. And the character work was really solid.
Other than the very dodgy science, I thought it was a decent episode. Very dramatic with a big punch at the end from Clara. Just a pity about that science.
But then. This IS Doctor Who.
A crazy dude who completely changes every couple years cruises around in a time traveling police box with a string of gorgeous women he has absolutely zero interest in, while fighting races of killer cyborgs, assasins and super mercenaries with nothing more than cutting wit and labored insight, all while making friends with famous European historical figures and the race of lizard people hybernating under the surface of the earth.
(i guess its the difference between dodgy science, and really absurdly bad science)
Yes the science was bad, but what else is new. I could start listing episodes that had completely absurd fallacies about science. The Tenth Planet, The Twin Dilemma, The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit, Journey's End, The Three Doctors,The Armageddon Factor, Underworld, off the top of my head,… But this is a story about an alien that turns into another person every time he dies and flies around in a police box that's infinitely large on the inside. Perhaps this egg was more like a womb and it consumed mass/energy from outside sources.
It's actually a lot more of an RTD thing to do...a ridiculous, grandiose idea as a vehicle to show some personal character moments.
I found this episode to be ridiculously intense - I wasn't sure what to think about it for most of the time, but I actually really loved the ending. There were a lot of Tom Baker channeling moments. Regardless of the science, the scene on the beach was superb. I was asking myself for a while where the heart of the episode is, and I felt like I got it in spades.
To the fight at the end: I know that what the Doctor did was technically right, however, this is not way he ever has done things. Clara had every reason to be upset - he withheld information, and just took off, leaving her to make a HUGE decision, possibly die, and not know if he was coming back. He went too far. She's starting to realize that this doctor is very different from the one she started with. Also, she had a point that he IS invested in earth, he can't just decide to remove himself on a whim when he feels like it.
As for the supposed pro-life message...Neither me nor my fiance even had a hint of a thought about that until I got on the internet. I can see where people can get that idea, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to think that the author is trying to convince people of anything. It reminded me a lot of "The Beast Below" and a myriad of stories int he classic series where the Doctor tried to convince humanity not to kill something they didn't understand out of fear, and instead learn from it. I guess it wouldn't be the first time writers inserted their personal views in, though...there was a lot of Eastern religion influences in the 70's and 80s, and Robert Holmes purposely made "The Two Doctors" a platform for vegetarianism, though I felt like it backfired and made me want to eat meat ;)
This was another solid "adventure" episode, and the only things that bothered me is Clara getting mad at the end and the possible Pro-life/Pro-choice message that people would undoubtedly take from it.
I'm not fond of Clara being upset for wrong reasons, because she said "Tell me the truth", then the Doctor tells the truth, then she says "No, really, tell me the truth!" a couple more times and doesn't believe him anyway. So at that point, there was no way he could win the arguement, which was annoying… But he's not suppose to "win" the arguement, it's sort of the point. It's logical for Clara to be upset with him.
As for the whole "abortion" message, I never really took the episode to be about it, but I did feel uncomfortable because I know people would get up in a ruckus about it no matter what.
Still, it was a great episode and sure made me like Capaldi more. I'm happy he's been having a consistently good season so far.
The only thing that made me think about abortion issues was when
! Clara pressed the button to abort the countdown. That was a poor choice of word(s). Or possibly intentional, who knows.
This is a really good blog post about the episode that addresses the dilemma. http://fallen-sparrow.tumblr.com/post/99269890846/doctor-who-abortion-and-the-trolley-problem
Yeah, I really do suspect the abortion parallels were unintended by the writing team, but it doesn't mean that the reading isn't still there. I guess it's just an unfortunate implication of the way they chose to present the dilemma - made perhaps more obvious by all three of the decision makers being women.
Also I still don't know of a single show that provokes such mixed reactions as Who. Almost every week seems to be a mix of people who loved it and those who hated it, and it's not even the same few each time.
moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon
Fun episode.
Capaldi has absolute control over the tardis now - like to the second. With that and him seeking out trouble instead of it being thrust upon him makes him seem more and more like a McCoyish doctor. Even him making clara take hard decisions is kinda like what McCoy would do with Ace. Which is great for me as McCoy series 2 is my favourite era of Who.
also I felt clara almost deserved the doctor forcing her to make the decision after her "LET'S ROLL, NOT OUR PROBLEM LOL" response to him suggesting they try to help
@Print:
Also I still don't know of a single show that provokes such mixed reactions as Who. Almost every week seems to be a mix of people who loved it and those who hated it, and it's not even the same few each time.
I don't get deep into fandoms of other shows lately enough to compare, to be honest. I guess for show that is so long in the tooth and so much variety, it's bound to have factions of fans. It's the same for a lot of the characters, especially companions. It would be interesting to study the psychology of DW fans and why they love and hate what they do. ;)
Here's how one fan forum is rating KTM so far.
also I felt clara almost deserved the doctor forcing her to make the decision after her "LET'S ROLL, NOT OUR PROBLEM LOL" response to him suggesting they try to help
I don't think anyone deserves tohave the fate of humanity thrust into their hands. Wouldn't be the first time a companion said that to him anyway…that conversation was actually a whole lot like one that Four and Sarah Jane had.
If it was one of the goofy doctors doing the exact same thing, 2, 4, 5, 8, 10 or 11, it'd flow as scripted, the doctor stepping back to let humanity make its choice and Clara might have gotten that… But under the newer leaner meaner doctor, it comes across as a dick move, and would have felt the same from 1,3, 6,7 , War or 9.
If it was one of the goofy doctors doing the exact same thing, 2, 4, 5, 8, 10 or 11, it'd flow as scripted, the doctor stepping back to let humanity make its choice and Clara might have gotten that… But under the newer leaner meaner doctor, it comes across as a dick move, and would have felt the same from 1,3, 6,7 , War or 9.
I'm pretty sure that no other doctor would have been so nonchalant about it and completely vanished. I've got all of the past doctors very firmly ingrained in my mind right now, and I can kind of see how all of them would have reacted. Four and Seven would have probably been the closest, but I think they'd still stay around and at least remind their companions that they believe they'll make the right choice and they're in it together with them. That's where he is different. Maybe Seven would have turned his back completely and been a little harsh with Ace. Both he and Four were the types that would be a little mean to their companions if they felt it would push them to do the right thing.
It occurs to me that the situation on the moon was a lot like the reverse of what happened on Waters of Mars, where the Doctor decided he had the right to make humanity's choice for them. Ten and Twelve are probably as polar opposites as the Doctor can get.
I think Seven pushed Ace far harder in Curse of Fenric personally
I think Seven pushed Ace far harder in Curse of Fenric personally
I don't agree…he had to be mean to her to break the "faith bubble" but afterwards he told her why he did it and that he didn't mean to hurt her. And while Ace was sort an unwilling pawn in the events, He didn't exactly put the weight of the whole world on her shoulders with one decision under a short time limit and abandon her.
It is a good story to compare to, though...it shows the same side of the Doctor and the affect it has on people.
^^fair point regarding stakes, Ace wasn't aware the bubble was stopping the ancient one saving the universe. Although she was emotionally at a low eb at that point - this being the resolution to a lot of her personal problems - and the doctor was pretty much the one thing she believed in, so he was kinda hitting her when she was down.
Mummy on the Orient Express was fantastic. Best ep of the series and one of the best standalones of the moffat era for me. Capaldi does a good Baker.
Frank Skinner, who played the engineer is a huge who fanboy, so I can't imagine how much it pained him to have to say no at the end. I suspect he's been bending ears at the bbc to be in a Who since RTD brought it back.
Yeah, good ep. I can't imagine there being any complaints on this one, though Listen is still the stronger episode in my book, but that was a very solid standalone.
! I've gotten used to Capaldi and he is definitley playing with a bit of Tom Baker in him, though less jovial? His final speech near the end about how he tries to save them but is helpless to, and the look on his face when Clara said shhe was staying were quite good. That finally cemented him as the doctor for me, in spite of his harsher let people die no nonsense attitude earlier, and through most of the episode. I still miss Matt, but at least I'm no longer watching the episodes imagining his delivery of the same lines. Like I've said every week, its nothing on Capaldi, he's doing a fantastic job, its just me. I just like the energetic full of wonder goofball a lot more than the serious irate all-buisness route.
Side note, Clara looked great in that haircut, and it just makes me wish all the more we'd get a companion that was a little less modern day London.
Well, I have a complaint (what a shocker).
! Perkins would have been great companion, and on that scene I hoped they are going to shock everyone and make him one.
Oh well, I guess there can't be other companions until Clara is completely gone and her arc is finished. That's one thing I wish was different.
! Otherwise, it was one of the best episodes and even Clara was fine.
I really really liked that they didn't leave whole "I've saved you and let everyone suffocate" thing ambigious.
That would be too much.
! And 12th theme is amazing.
And a longer version with clips from the show, including some mild spoilers/
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Yep. Really solid episode. Definitely one of the best of the season.
! Though, I don't know. I think still prefer Listen and Robots of Sherwood as I think the pacing wasn't quite as good in this one, and certainly wasn't as emotional as Listen.
Wonderful episode.
! Really just solid all around. I like the actual explanation to what happened to everyone on the train, that was good to not leave ambiguous. I'd say it was almost as good as Listen, but that damn episode was just too good.
! I've gotten used to Capaldi and he is definitley playing with a bit of Tom Baker in him, though less jovial? His final speech near the end about how he tries to save them but is helpless to, and the look on his face when Clara said shhe was staying were quite good. That finally cemented him as the doctor for me, in spite of his harsher let people die no nonsense attitude earlier, and through most of the episode.
Yeah. The bit where capaldi talked about choices was the best and most doctorish thing he's done in Who.
LoL a vampire and a mummy on board of the orient express…
!
I'm not a fan of how they defeated the mummy, but still a great episode. Maybe my favorite of the season. Just love the scenery.
The Doctor mentioned other instances of Gus trying to lure him. When was it again ?
! I've gotten used to Capaldi and he is definitley playing with a bit of Tom Baker in him, though less jovial? His final speech near the end about how he tries to save them but is helpless to, and the look on his face when Clara said shhe was staying were quite good. That finally cemented him as the doctor for me, in spite of his harsher let people die no nonsense attitude earlier, and through most of the episode. I still miss Matt, but at least I'm no longer watching the episodes imagining his delivery of the same lines. Like I've said every week, its nothing on Capaldi, he's doing a fantastic job, its just me. I just like the energetic full of wonder goofball a lot more than the serious irate all-buisness route.
I know exactly what you mean! This episode sold me finally Capaldi as the Doctor. Matt was fantastic, he did such a great job that's gonna get real hard for anyone else. But to be honest I just stopped comparing Doctors and I had a lot of fun with this episode.
Capaldi nailed it. That was a fantastic episode and a real showcase for the show. The aesthetics, the Doctor-Companion conflict, the Doctor being the Doctor again in such an undiluted way, a villain with an original terrifying concept (blink, breathe, move, none of it can help you in those 66 seconds), and such a fun supporting cast - strong performances and memorable characters all around, especially Quell. And Frank Skinner made an oddly adorable pseudo-Companion - his deadpan "ah, I'm clearly the Mummy, or maybe I was already looking into this" line is an absolute favourite, and not an attitude I can recall recent companions having (closest we got was Donna?).
I'd say "more please" but we have the same writer next week, so that's essentially what we'll get. If he does as well the second time (something Gaiman didn't manage) , I may have a new favourite show writer.
I forgot to mention Frank Skinner. I really loved his character.
